John [00:00:07]

Julie, I think you’ll agree uh, when we talk about the three questions to predict your future quality of life that our friends at the MIT AgeLab talk about. Probably one of the most emotional and one of the ones where people are like, I know what he’s saying is right, but I don’t know how to think about it, is the question about who will change your light bulbs, about the home that you intend to live in. Because it seems like over the past two generations, I would say the concept of home has really changed a lot. Do you find that as well?

Julie [00:00:41]

I do. I find that not only in conversations that I seem to be having with financial professionals and their clients when I’m traveling around, but also within my family as well. It seems like every other day there are conversations around things and the places those things will reside. It’s it’s amazing how prevalent those discussions are and how emotional they are as well.

John [00:01:07]

You know, a fair few years ago, I had a conversation with some very close relatives of mine. They were getting older. They were approaching age 80 and they had lived in their own home in the same home for probably 40 years. But they started to observe that their friendship network was starting to change. People were moving away. Sadly, people were passing away and finally got to a point where they said, If we stay here, we’re going to be isolated from everyone. They actually wound up moving to an independent living community, which kind of recreated a whole new social network network for them. And I think they’re very happy they did so. So kind of breaking that chain, if you will, of saying, you know, wherever I lived at age 40 is going to be the right place for me at age 80. I think practically speaking, we’re wise to think differently about that.

Julie [00:01:57]

I think you’re right. Keeping an open mind and really understanding the pros and cons of each stage of life and really making sure that the the resources are there for us as opposed to looking in the rearview mirror and saying, well, what I thought I needed 20 years ago is what I need today is really the right decision point. So you’re absolutely right. Place is very, very important and I’m really excited to hear more about that. And we have Ryan Frederick, who I would say is an expert on that here with us today.

John [00:02:32]

You know, Julie, I met Ryan probably two, two and a half years ago through my relationship with Dr. Coughlin at the MIT AgeLab. And in fact, Dr. Coughlin just couldn’t talk enough about Ryan’s work around this concept of the place. And if you think about I was kind of right in the midst of the COVID pandemic where everyone was thinking about not only health concerns, but where would they live, What if they had now an option to go wherever they wanted? What would that look like? And so this was not just a conversation for aging Americans, really, a conversation for all Americans. And so why don’t you tell everyone, Julie, a little bit about Ryan Frederick, our guest for today’s podcast.

Julie [00:03:15]

Well, Ryan is the founder and CEO of Here. He focuses on the intersection of place and healthy longevity and is the author of best selling ‘Right Place, Right Time The Ultimate Guide to Choosing a Home for the Second Half of Life’. His work has been featured in CBS News, Forbes, Kiplinger and other national outlets. Ryan is a graduate of Princeton University and Stanford Business School. He lives in Austin, Texas, with his family.

John [00:03:43]

So, Julie, let’s invite everyone to listen in on the conversation we have with Ryan Frederick about the place and the time in which we live.

John [00:03:54]

Hi, I’m John

Julie [00:03:55]

And I’m Julie.

John [00:03:57]

We’re the hosts of the Hartford Funds Human Centric Investing Podcast.

Julie [00:04:02]

Every other week, we’re talking with inspiring thought leaders to hear their best ideas for how you can transform your relationships with your clients.

John [00:04:12]

Let’s go.

Julie [00:04:13]

Ryan, thank you so much for joining us today on the Human-centric Investing Podcast.

Ryan [00:04:18]

Thanks for having me, Julie.

John [00:04:21]

So, Ryan, I’m really excited for our podcast today because I got to tell you, I’m a big fan of your book, right? Right place, right time. I’m going to hold it up here so everybody can see it. But, you know, the book is loaded with lots of great insight. But one of the one of the really thing the things that I found most entertaining was your story about how you got into this subject area, because this area of study is not where you started your career, right?

Ryan [00:04:51]

Yeah, no, I, I was allegedly junior in, in undergrad and then worked in Silicon Valley for a couple of technology company. He’s and then went back to business school and pivoted into I really describe it as longevity field. But initially on the senior housing side and and I did I had a little bit of an unusual summer internship.

John [00:05:16]

Tell us about it.

Ryan [00:05:17]

Yeah. So I was really curious about, you know, people living longer and what are the implications of that. And I wanted to see the environment in people’s in their living environments. And so I reached out to different places, different senior housing development operators across the country. And what happened was I didn’t know any of them. So I wrote about dozen letters. Only one person responded. And basically what happened was he was SunRise senior living Paul Clauson was the CEO at the time. He said, Well, sure, you come out. And then I laid out what I’d like to do. And part of it actually was wanting to live in, in a community. And he said, Well, okay, we can’t pay you for that, but sure, let’s work that out. So it involved for a month. I was in Atlanta, in suburban Atlanta, independent living community. I was the only person under 75, only male in my wing, my wife elected to not join me for that particular leg of the internship. We otherwise we were together in D.C.. And so I got a lot of unsolicited brunch and dinner requests and and brownies. But it was great. I learned a lot about how much environment can can, can shape us really at any age. But I got to see that more in the second half of life.

Julie [00:06:41]

What you said. You learned a lot. And my mind is swirling because I can only imagine what were one or two of the greatest learnings that really jumped out after your time there in that senior living environment.

Ryan [00:06:55]

Yeah, you know, it it really was it was a funny experience. I have some some notes. I haven’t looked at them recently, but some funny stories. You know, when I was there, you know, a couple of things come to mind. One is, you know, as we get older, there and we’ll talk about this, I’m sure a bit. But they’re it’s hard for us sometimes to get our head around the future. And but if we don’t do that, sometimes we can, sellers sell short and find ourselves in suboptimal situations. And so what I found was a number of people at senior living is not for everyone. But what I did find in some of the people that I spent time with was that there was a bit of a renaissance some people had where they this was like a new chapter and they made new friends and they saw like a glass half full that maybe they didn’t have before. And so there’s a real opportunity from a social engagement perspective, there was this real like energy, you know, that happened. On the other hand, there is also there is a sense of loss that can happen, particularly in the later stages of senior living. And one gentleman couldn’t drive anymore, but still had his driver’s license, you know, was really allowed to drive. But it was that sign of independence. There’s one woman I met with as I interviewed different residents for part of the Culture Project, and she said that, you know, Ryan and everyone you talk talk with here like has a broken heart. And that’s because theyve just lived so long that things have happened. That is a reality, too. And so I’d say, Julie, there’s a there’s two sides of the coin. One is I could see people really leaning into that stage and developing a new sense of community and support network. It’s the other other other hand. It’s this idea that there is some element of, of loss that I that I saw people go through and how they grapple with that rationalize it. There’s something called the U-shaped happiness curve, which also mentioned the book, which is not very well understood or known, and that is there’s a certain level of happiness people have in their twenties, and then it goes through early twenties, it goes to a bit of a precipitous decline. It’s actually a global phenomenon. And then in your kind of late forties, fifties here in the U.S., you hit the nayer. This low point I like to think has something to do with teenagers in the house and then in Amen. And then then it goes back up. And the self-reported happiness or well-being in your seventies and eighties is higher than it than it was for people in their twenties. So there is sometimes we can we we we get our heads around these these losses, like I mentioned, but there is a sense of of a satisfaction that can come later in life pretty commonly actually, that we don’t know as much about. So I got to see some of that as well.

John [00:09:56]

Sereno I’m going to date myself here, but I remember the episode of All in the Family when Archie and Edith burned their mortgage and they had a great big party. And like as I was growing up, it was always ingrained in my mind that your home is your castle, right? Most of us will have one home, and that’s where I hope I am until they take me out in a pine box. But I think it’s important that we point out that this is not just about kind of senior Americans like age 65 plus place is now really important throughout our lives. In fact, when I reflect on the different places where I lived, I realize it doesn’t seem like I moved as many times as I have, but I actually did. And there were different reasons for changing my location. So explain to us a little bit about this concept of place, why it’s so important and kind of what’s changing about the concept of place.

Ryan [00:10:53]

Yeah. John It’s it’s it’s fascinating because my that summer internship, living in the senior living community, it has sparked this journey that I would not have anticipated and some insights that I believe matter significantly for for people and advisors as they look to provide advice for their clients for whatever reason. Place It’s like hidden in plain sight in in terms of its significance in your life. And so what I mean by place I’ll unpack that for a second place is physical. It’s it’s the four walls that you that you live in. It’s your block, it’s your neighborhood, it’s your metropolitan area, it’s your urban, suburban, rural dimension. It’s. The state you live in. It’s the region you’re part of. It’s the country you live in. It’s the region of the world that you live in. It’s even the world that we live in. Our lived experience is physically is made up of all of those things. So you might love your four walls, but find out that your neighbors change. Don’t know your neighbors. You might find that there’s changes in tax policy or other things at the at the at the state level that make it less attractive to be there or more attractive. So you have this this this physical piece of plays. I would say also emotional and psychological. Is it my home or not? Is a is a question that comes up pretty often now and then indirectly, where you find your place and how you choose to engage in your place. It impacts purpose. It impacts social connection, particularly this world where we’re, you know, broadly fighting social disconnection, loneliness. It impacts physical well-being. Like how active are you, Are you moving, are you eating well, sleeping well, etc. Also not insignificantly. It impacts your financial well-being, you know, from both an expense perspective and an asset perspective. So in some respects, which typically when you look at the research around longevity, only about 20%, if that of your longevity linked to your genetics, it’s much more about lifestyle and environment. And the reason why it’s so significant now, John, is a subject of of a number of of your podcasts, which is we’re living longer and there are implications of living longer. It means that we have more chapters now in our lives. I went to Stanford Business School in our magazine I just got the other day. It talked about this theme where people may have an extra 30 years of of living in. And so one of the questions that I think is important for all of us to grapple with is living longer by itself isn’t necessarily desirable. It’s like you match it with a corresponding level of health. And also wealth for the type of lifestyle you’re looking at. So it’s not just life span, it’s also health span. And wealth span is what I like to talk about. So it is I would argue it’s not that eating is not that eating healthy isn’t important or, you know, getting sleep isn’t important of course, saving financially. All those things are important. But I argue that place is the most important thing because it sculpts so much of our life and all these other factors are influenced.

Julie [00:14:12]

I love the way that you’ve really framed that. And I think you’re right. It’s sort of that that thing that’s hiding in plain sight or maybe where it’s so obvious that we overlook it. You’ve gone so far as to not just talk about it, but to create an assessment. Will, you tell us a little bit about what went into that process and how how the assessment works. And let us into your mindset as you were thinking about how to really help people think about the right place. And I know I took the assessment and it was very eye opening. I was also very nervous to take it because I thought, What if I’m not in the right place? Or what if what if I’m not aligned? Luckily, I was. I won’t give away any spoiler alerts, but I think it really is important to think about how you’ve taken that extra step to really help the thought process and make something that is kind of intangible, much more tangible and help, I really think create a meaningful dialog, especially between a financial professional and their client. If they’re really trying to connect the pieces of place, health, wealth and all of these other pieces that you’ve talked about in the last few minutes that we’ve been together.

Ryan [00:15:29]

Yeah. Julie So it’s great that you took the assessment. I know some there is a level of trepidation some times people have and it’s, it’s a little bit of being in the gang because while you might be well aligned now, you may not in the future. And so it’s not just a one and done thing. Much like financial plans are not just one and done, you’re constantly reevaluating the allocation, your risk profile. There’s a similar parallel, I believe, with with place planning. So when I wrote this book, it was it was littered in irony because I said it engineering, as I mentioned, to avoid reading and writing. So I did not anticipate that there would be a book in my future at some point. But when I went through this process, I learned so much in the writing of it because I had a hypothesis, I had a framework, but the more research wrote about it, I realized, Wow, this is such a profound thing. It just shapes us more than we shape it. And I included an assessment in the book, and I’ve got a lot of positive feedback that was really helpful because it made some of the framing tangible for people where I am in my journey. And then I realized what she’s that might be helpful just to put online as an easy way for people to engage and start the conversation. Because for some people, place may be important, others may not be at that moment in time. And so what’s happened with the cert, with the assessment is it just takes a couple of minutes to fill out. And it does. Just like I described earlier, it breaks place into those five components, like the physical and emotional and psychological is the first one, but then it breaks it into purpose and then your social connections, your physical being and then financial well-being. And it unpacks it because someone might be in a situation where they don’t think they necessarily have a problem with place. But the truth is they’re just pretty disconnected from people and a change in place could make a difference. You know, one of the when you take the assessment, what comes back is a series of of some recommendations, depending on what your score is and what areas. It doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to physically like change places, pick up shop and move to another state. But it can mean that how you engage in your place is different. So I talk about it often that when I talk about place, I mean it literally, but also figuratively. And and it could be as simple as, okay, I have let some of my some of my friendships go maybe through COVID, some different things happen. I just need to reengage my place now, find my people. And so I think that and recognizing is a whole nother conversation. But there’s so much, it seems, linked to our health and wellbeing that is tied to the health of our our relationships. And it, it, it takes investment, takes intentionality, it takes time. And particularly as we get older, our social networks can just naturally change with people moving and different things. So it takes a level of proactive effort. If our goal really is to not just live long, but also have that corresponding long health span, animal span.

John [00:18:38]

It seems like early in our lives we may be more reactive when it comes to place, right? Because we begin our careers and it’s going to be somewhere across the country or we take a new job or we meet someone. And it’s kind of like just what we’re going to do. We’re going to relocate and we’re going to start over again. Whereas it seems like as we age, the decisions become more proactive because I now have options and there probably there’s probably a little more pressure and not making a mistake, which may be why many clients are like, I don’t even want to think about it, but interest. Ryan I think I think it was in your book you stated that the average American usually moves like 12 or 13 times during their lifetime. And when I say that to people, they’re like, no way, I’m never moving again. But I think from a financial practitioner standpoint, probably some of the some of the saddest stories we hear is when no planning took place and then something happens. Mom or dad go from living in their home, home to a hospital, to a rehab and all have very little input on where they’re going because the family has six weeks to figure it out. And I think the benefit of exploring things and many of the different factors that you talk about is maybe I’m not saying I have to move next week, but having that vision to say, you know, if I were going to take a next step, where might it be? And I guess, Ryan, I’m just I know you’ve you’ve done some preliminary workshops and things like that with people. Is that one of the benefits that come out of exploring this more deeply?

Ryan [00:20:15]

Yes, It it’s it’s kind of one of these strings. Once you start to pull on it, it’s a long string. And I John, I completely agree with you. I would say that the typical the historical and typical outcome is and you see it in studies, the vast majority of people want to age in place. But in my experience, in large measure, that’s people without a plan they’re not thinking through. Most people that say that they’re not prepared for what the real implications of that are. So they’re kind of avoiding it. And then but the problem of avoiding it is that two things in particular. One is you may be living a suboptimal life at the time. Go back to the social connection piece. If you don’t have friends close by, there aren’t those ties. That’s probably not you’re probably not thriving. So that has issues in the moment which does tie to your overall health, because if you’re not thriving one chapter, it has off as a correlation to your ability to be healthy long term. And then the second piece you raise is you’re setting yourself up for then not being in a proactive situation, but having to be reactive. Or particularly for older people, it may not be you being reactive. It may be your family being reactive, not understanding what your needs and wants are. And that’s a hard out. It’s a lot of stress for everyone. Now, take a step back for a second. This is this phenomenon of place. It really is age agnostic. So when things that happen, I put out the book, the books focused on the second half of life, but I got more and more comments and inquiries for people in their twenties, thirties, forties, people. There’s actually I have some degree of influence on where I live. I’ve actually seen some people, the former, I think President of Purdue had an op ed several years ago where he implored recent graduates to not necessarily take the best job opportunity, move to Chicago or some other, see where your friends are. Build community that way. To your point around the as is unfolded indeed the book didn’t know where the book would necessarily take this conversation, but it is subsequent led to a fair amount of keynote speaking I’ve been doing in different circles. But then also this. I recently beta tested a workshop and a course and will be offering that on a larger, more commercial basis here in the fall, later this fall. And but it’s that John is a process the workshops a one time event but the courses is actually four different sessions but that ends up with people having a plan and that a plan at the individual level, they can share with their financial advisor, they can share with family and friends, etc. I think it’s what our society desperately needs is more people leaning into this decision that has such great significance.

Julie [00:23:06]

Brian for financial professionals listening, is there a specific question or kind of a framework or probing sort of insight that they might ask clients when they’re maybe sensing that the physical location isn’t quite right, or any key words or any insight that maybe you can leave us with that they could be listening for or just to really kind of help gauge when a conversation if they’re or even with a prospect or a client that you’ve picked up on in all the work that you’ve done where they could say, Gosh, I’m just these pieces aren’t quite right. I want to ask a few more questions about this. I’m wondering if if I could help my client or prospect get themselves into slightly better alignment here at this phase of life, whether, you know, whether they’re in their twenties, thirties, forties or 50, 60, seventies and beyond.

Ryan [00:24:07]

Yeah, I would say one of the first threshold issues, Julie, is philosophically for that financial advisor is how much are you exclusively in the financial wellbeing business which by the way is not an easy business. It’s hard, especially with people living longer now, like what does it mean to plan for your life? Like that is complicated, especially in this dynamic world we live in. But are you just focused on financial well-being or do you really want to lean to this conversation of of of helping them or at least unpack what is thriving over a longer life look like to them? And if that’s a question that they want to engage in, if that’s a question a financial adviser wants to have as part of their practice, they want to be differentiated in some way. So it’s not just, you know, looking at your own net worth. It’s like, well, how does this fit into this bigger picture of having a life be all that it can be when you’re down that path Julie I think pretty quickly you ask, well, how does physical place factor into this? You know, do you feel like you’re currently like thriving where you are, or are you concerned that where you are around the corner won’t be the right place? And I think that’s kind of an easier way to start the dialog on the here.Life website that has the assessment tool, that that’s an assessment for the here and now. But the planning means we have to anticipate what’s 3 to 5 years down the road. And so what might be perfect now may not be down the road. That’s where the planning is so important. So that might be a pathway to unpack some of that.

John [00:25:44]

Or Ryan, in a moment, Julie’s going to share with our listeners how they can learn more about your assessment tool. But before we get there, Julie and I have our own assessment tool that we would like to try out on you. It’s what we call our lightning round. It’s where we’ll fire a bunch of questions at you. We want Top of your Mind responses to our questions and maybe they’ll help you, Ryan, discover what your next place is, given the answers to these questions. So, Julie, do you want to kick it off?

Julie [00:26:14]

Absolutely. So, Ryan, on a scale of 1 to 10, how good of a driver are you.

Ryan [00:26:21]

I’m an eight!

John [00:26:24]

All right. I’m gonna go right to place East Coast or West Coast.

Ryan [00:26:28]

Oh, gosh. Both

John [00:26:33]

haha good to know.

Julie [00:26:33]

What’s the best age?

Ryan [00:26:38]

Wow. The one I’m in right now.

John [00:26:42]

Yep. Popular answer, by the way. And I will go right to again. Geography. Ryan Beach house or lake House?

Ryan [00:26:52]

I’m the lake house.

Julie [00:26:55]

Paper to do list or digital?

Ryan [00:26:58]

Digital? Absolutely.

John [00:27:01]

Favorite city in the United States.

Ryan [00:27:06]

Oh, gosh, I would say my favorite city was San Francisco around the early 2000.

Julie [00:27:16]

Do you prefer texting or a phone conversation?

Ryan [00:27:19]

I prefer a phone conversation by text a lot more.

Julie [00:27:22]

Well, Ryan, again, we can’t thank you enough for joining us today on the Human Centric Investing podcast. And for those of you looking for more information on Ryan’s work, please visit his website here Dot Life. You can find his right place assessment. And also, if you want to hear more from Ryan directly, he will be having a webinar for financial professionals in the fall. And you can find all the details on that in our show notes for this podcast. Thanks again, Ryan, for being here with us today. We truly appreciate all of your insight.

Ryan [00:27:53]

My pleasure. Yeah, That lightning round. You got me on that one.

Julie [00:27:58]

Thanks for listening to the Hartford Funds Human Centric Investing Podcast. If you’d like to tune in for more episodes, don’t forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on LinkedIn, Twitter, or YouTube.

John [00:28:13]

And if you’d like to be a guest and share your best ideas for transforming client relationships, email us at guest booking at Hartford Funds dot com. We’d love to hear from you.

Julie [00:28:24]

Talk to you soon.

John [00:28:26]

The views and opinions expressed herein are those of the guest who is not affiliated with Hartford Funds.