Welcome back to another episode of the Become A Calm Mama

podcast. I'm your host. I'm Darlynn Childress. And

today we're going to talk about trauma

and foster kids and neurodivergence,

what it means to parent kids whose nervous systems

fire in ways that are unpredictable, that are intense,

that are challenging for us, and how to stay

calm and how to help our kids regulate. And you're going to learn

two different techniques that are really important

for self regulating yourself and helping your kids become

more regulated themselves. The fun part of this episode is

that I have invited Jamie Finn to come

and talk to us today because she is a foster

parent and an adoptive parent and a parent of children that she's

birthed as well. And she has a lot of experience

raising kids who are neurodivergent who

have trauma backgrounds. Jamie shares with us on this

podcast what she's had to learn about herself and how

to calm her nervous system so that she can show up as the

mama she wants to be to her family of seven children.

Her story's really interesting. And we talk a little bit about

religion, we talk a little bit about how we were raised and

how we have had to learn new ways to cope

and to parent our kids and heal along

the way. I think everyone is going to be able to relate to

this because we really kind of drill down what

it means to be a mom and how hard it is to stay calm

and to raise kids who raise kids, period, especially

kids who are neurodivergent or have any sort of trauma

history. I really hope you enjoy this episode and that you enjoy

meeting Jamie just as much as I enjoyed talking with her.

Welcome, Jamie. It's so nice to meet you. Hi, Darlynn. Thank you

so much for having me. Yeah, I'm really excited about this

conversation. The last couple of episodes on the podcast,

I shared my adoption and infertility story,

really, for the first time for episode 200. Okay. It's not that I

hadn't talked about it. I just hadn't really shared the whole

story. Sure. So for episode 200, I was like, okay, I'm going

to, you know, I like to make those. Those ones make, you know, mean something.

And then I had my coach or my

therapist who taught me how to be a trauma informed

parent on her name's. Her name is Jeanette Yaffe

and she was with us last week. And so this week I wanted

to talk to you about your experience as a foster mom, as an adoptive

mom, as a calm mama who birthed children and just Kind of

what you've learned along the way and share your story with us so

we can learn from you and grow with you. Oh, yes. So happy to

share. Yeah. So what brought you to Become a

calm mama? Like, tell us a little bit about your story. You

have a blog, Foster the Family. Tell us how

many children you have and what has been happening for you, kind

of where you're at now and, like, how you got here. Yeah.

So 11 years ago, we found ourselves

with two kids, one boy, one girl, sort of

happily ever after, American

dream kind of living. And it was a

little bit of a, okay, what now? Like,

what does it look like to.

So

we really, like, had faith for the. Yes. And

didn't know what it was going to Become.

But it has Become, you know, a lifelong

journey of serial sort of foster

parenting at this point, of keeping our doors open

to kids who need us. And we

now have seven kids, so not at all

what we thought it was going to be. But we've adopted four

kids through foster care. We have one kiddo in placement right now,

and our kids are from 2 to almost

17. So we have toddlers and

teenagers and everything in between. And

that has been our journey for the past 11 years.

Incredible. I want to

ask you, like, how you had to grow as a woman,

as a mother, how you had to,

like, I think we all want to be parents who are

connected and compassionate, you know, not

new trend, but, you know, the shift from traditional parenting to a

more connected model. How did you Become A Calm Mama? Right. Anyone listening is aligned

with that and wants that for themselves. And

listening to podcasts like mine and others, because it's like, I know what I

want to do, but I don't. Know how to do it. I don't have any

models of it, but then I think about for myself.

And when you take a child into your home who has

experienced any sort of attachment disruption,

abandonment, neglect, abuse. Right. Those kind

of big T traumas, you are kind

of at bat, like at a higher level. So I just

wonder, like, I know for me,

I had to really heal from my

own trauma background. I have an ACE score of nine

for me, and I've talked about that on the Podcast. So

parenting kids who are not traditional, like neuro.

Neurotypical. Sure, sure. It just triggered everything in

me all the time. I felt unsafe all the time with their

reactive behaviors. I mean it was so much for me. I had to just

double down and learn everything I could. And I would imagine

that even if you didn't have a trauma background, just what was like for you

to. Yeah. What did you have to learn or grow? How'd you do that?

Like

Christian

traditional

parenting. I think for me it was even a step

deeper than that. It was this really

conservative Christian gospel

centered. Like Christian traditional

parenting. So would you say that's very

authoritarian? Yes, very authoritarian.

I mean the first parenting.

Training that I ever went to, I remember it clear as day because

there was something in me that right away was like. I don't know, it's

like in theory, fine, but once you have a kid and you imagine

manipulating them in certain ways for their behavior, it's like, wait, no, I don't, I

don't actually want to hit this little baby or I don't want to pinch them

or whatever it was. This was, this was literally the scenario. I,

I'm going to tell you what the scenario was that it was so

insane looking back, but put them on

a blanket and put shiny like colorful

things around them, I think. And this is uncomfortable. This

is a training ground for stay on the

blanket. And when they crawl off the blanket, you

correct them, AKA hit them

so that they will go back on the blanket. Yeah.

Now straight away, even in my uber

traditional sort of, I was like, there is no world where I'm doing this. This

is insane. I'm not doing this. But that

was the kind of background that I came from. Yeah. And the, it's a high

control, fear based model. Right. It's like, and very

authoritarian. Very like. I understand

how Christian parenting models get there. It is,

God gives authority and authority is given to parents. And I

have your best in mind and you need to learn from me. And so I,

I understand how

everyone's just trying to do their best. Right. That it's not like

people don't love their kids and they're trying to hurt them. Darlynn Childress. And

there was something right away that I was like, nope, this isn't it. And I

was at my very first trauma training. I don't

know that we even had a child through foster care yet. I

think we may have had a baby. So I wasn't yet really

experiencing what any of this meant. Now of course

I know that babies have experienced trauma if they've joined our homes

through foster care. And so I understand that now, but it's not like I was

seeing behaviors or seeing any of the fruit of

it. But I had a child with

ADHD, anxiety, a birth. Darlynn Childress.

A child that you birthed? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Biological child,

neurodivergent, some struggles with mental illness. And

right away I was like, wait a second. This whole trauma

informed thing, this works with them? Yes.

And it's so sort of open my eyes to. This isn't

just about trauma. This is about seeing our

kids brains and meeting our kids where they

are and not just coming in and saying, I am the

authority and this is how we run our home. And these are our

rules. First time obedience, happy obedience.

Yes, mom, but like my heart is for you

and I'm with you and I want you to be able to

succeed in obedience. And like it just changed everything

for me and it put me on this journey for the past 11 years

of imperfectly but. But trying to. To

love and parent my children. Yeah, yeah. I think about

like I also come from a Christian background. I don't identify that way at

all anymore. But I

like had all my models and my friends and my, you know, my. I

left faith like around. Well with adoptive kids

actually. It was part of my journey we do not need to get

into. But one of the things that was like interesting for

me as an adoptive mom is I had to do study home studies after

placement. And I kept thinking, I can't have

an 18 month old, like say mom hits me or something like that.

Right, right. I just looked at these other models that, you know, my friends

were doing Swatson flicks and whatever they were

doing and I was just like, I will get in trouble. Like,

like I have. When you're an adoptive parent,

you kind of just. You're not as entitled. Like there's like other

people paying attention to your parenting. So it was

internally I didn't want to parent that way. It didn't feel right.

But also I didn't want to lose my kid that

I just got that I worked so hard to get. Yeah. You're aware of two

things. First of all the complexity you Just the word

entitled, which is such a great point. It's that, like

this, this idea that I am not the.

The only mother to this child, that there is this

complexity and nuance of who this child belongs to.

Yes, that's a piece of it. And then the other piece is just that you

are flinging your, your doors wide open to

the state and to others. And so

you are being. I mean, as moms, we're like, we don't, you know, you're

not judged and you're do. No, you are literally judged as a foster

adoptive mom, there are literally people who are judging you.

And so there is this bright light on just how are

you parenting and what are your choices? And it helps you evaluate and

really answer those questions with a little more clarity

and, and conviction. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

And when, when we make this shift

into, like you said, like, recognizing that my child is a person.

Right. They have thoughts and feelings and neurodivergence.

Like, they're like, what? You know, they're not giving

me a hard time. They're having a hard time. Right. Just for me,

when I learned Feelings Drive behavior, that sentence,

I was like, wait, what? Right. It was such a paradigm

shift. And this was 15, 16 years ago, so

it was early on in this kind of. Now it's much more

common for people to understand nervous system and, you know,

amygdalas and cortisol and like, all these different. We have so much brain

education. Yeah, thank goodness. Thank goodness. Yeah.

But at the time, I just was like, wait, what are you saying? Because I

definitely came from a model of children are manipulative.

Children are, you know, I don't know, all the kind of thing that I need

to, like, use behavior, Behavior charts and

rewards and, you know, consequences and all. I do

teach consequences, but it was very manipulative. Yeah, sure. That was

just the model that I had. So when I

for myself was like, okay, wait, Feelings drive behavior. And I wanted to

define trauma informed parenting. I want to ask you what you.

How you define it. And I

was looking it up, and when I looked it up, it said

based on the concept that behaviors are often windows into

underlying emotions or unmet needs. I

was like, that's not trauma informed parenting. It's like

informed human informed parents parenting or something.

Yeah, I mean, trauma, like trauma informed

parenting, like, how do you define it in your mind? Yeah. So I

would say that there it's looking for the need behind the behavior.

Yeah. And you're right. That's just. I mean, I, I don't change

the way that I parent with my kids who haven't experienced trauma,

I'm still like, what's the need here and how can we meet that?

Yeah. I think that when you're trauma informed,

you're a lot more curious about the need behind the

behavior. So because you don't know

the child's full history, I think it, it leads

to a curiosity that leads to a generosity.

So with my bio kids, I can be, I can be more

tempted to go like, oh, you're being selfish. You know what I mean? And

with my kids who've experienced trauma, I could be more prone to say,

oh, this is a trigger that

reminds you of the time where you didn't experience

comfort at night or you know, those things. I think it leads

to curiosity, which leads to generosity, which leads to meeting that

need. And like you're saying, well, isn't that just

the best way to meet all of our kids needs? Yeah. It's so

easy to decide whether someone's entitled to an emotion like

rethink, like right. You know, or a desire.

Like you shouldn't want what your sibling has because you

already have so many things. Sure. And it's like desire is not

inherently wrong or having

a feeling of sadness or a feeling of anger.

It's just a feeling that needs to be seen and

validated and addressed and then also coped with and given

strategies to men. I always think of it digestively, like metabolize

the feeling. Sure, sure, sure. So

yes, I love that curiosity leads to generosity. I just really do think it's

so applicable to parenting in general. But

yeah, I have a kid who, one of the

ways that his trauma background came about

is through a eating disorder. So it's called

arfid. It's like maybe you know about avoidant restrictive

food intake disorder. So it's like picky eating, but

some other level to the nth degree. Yeah. And

when I was so like for one, nurturing your children through

food is almost like, it's almost a primal thing. Yeah.

It's so true. Right? Yeah. So then when they don't take the food in

feels like a rejection of nurture. Sure. And

failure. Yeah. I think we can experience that from the

beginning with bio kids.

And all of that. And so I get that for sure. Yeah.

And I mean, he's 19 and I recently made eggs for,

for him and it might tear up, but that was, I turned to my husband,

I said it was the first time I ever cooked something I ate. Oh, wow.

That I cooked it. Like it wasn't like an instant oatmeal. Or an instant

wow that you made it? I made it in my house and

I handed it to him. And he's like, what? And I

was like, yeah, never eaten any food I've made.

Wow, that's 19 years old. So at some

point early on, I had to figure out a different relationship to it.

And, like, in the beginning, of course, I really didn't understand

it, but then getting curious, like, what was this history? What was. My kids were

in Russian orphanages, and so a year of neglect and

not being fed on cue and all of these things. And I was like, okay,

this means so much more to my child. And

this is a massive maladaptive coping strategy. But it's a

coping strategy. It's not about me. That's right. And then

I could. I mean, I was like a calories first

model that was like. It was just like, I don't know, quality.

I don't care about macro. Nope. Does this person have enough

to not die? You know? Yeah. Yeah. But that's like,

when we understand our children and that curiosity leads

us to that understanding. Yeah. And you're like, how do I just. What are the

bare minimums? How do I make these needs? How do I meet these needs?

Yeah, well. And I. I can so easily get there with my kids

from trauma. I can get there with my kid who's

neurodivergent and mentally ill. I

have a hard. The hardest time getting there with my kid,

who is my little mini me who kind of has their act together.

And that is the one where I can go, like, come on, let's get

it together. Like, what's. Instead of seeing. Oh,

same thing. Just a full person with

needs and struggles and emotions and.

And so I. I fight just as hard to be curious of like, okay,

what's going on? It might not be in the same way in

their story or even in their brain, body, biology, all

that, but, like, you know, what's going on in their hormones right now?

What's going on in their diet, what's going on in their school schedule, their sleep,

their friendships, and trying to have that same

curiosity of not just like, oh, they're being a jerk,

or, like, oh, they're being selfish. Right. So

much criticism. But then when we. I think of it, like,

I call it the journey to compassion. And we start in

criticism ultimately, or judgment of the behavior

and even the feeling, and then we get to neutral. We're like, I don't know

what's going on, whatever. Like, and then curious. It's always the next.

The stage before true compassion has to be curiosity. Like, what

is going on? That's right. And it's like, I think parents

rhetorically, like, why are you acting this way? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know,

it's a great question. What's that? Like, let's just answer it. Right, right.

Yeah. And. And our kids usually can't answer it, and

that's why they act in behavior. And

that's why it's our job to be little detectives

that look at whether it's their story from

10 years ago or the womb or whether it's their story

from this day and what they ate or what happened at school

to go like, oh, what are some of the potential reasons

that this is playing out this way? And even if I can't

answer that, how can I look at them as a full person who

needs compassion right now? The same way I do. The same way I do. I

do all the time. I think about myself when I coach. When I coach in

my private practice, I'll think to myself. I think. I think

often I'm the child's advocate in the conversation.

That's how I anchor myself. Sure. Because a

parent has a hard time, for many reasons, of getting to

that curiosity or even kind of answering the question because maybe they don't have enough

child development background or whatever the reason. Is,

or they're in a place of blocked care. They're

in a place of compassion fatigue themselves. They're in a place of just. It's

so hard to show up over and over and over for kids. So hard.

Especially parenting kids from trauma or neurodivergence. It's.

Compassion fatigue is real. Yes. And it's like in the coaching

process, it's like, I'm their. Their

compassionate witness. Sure, sure. With that

sense of, like, let's just get you regulated. Like, let's get you here.

I'm here for you. And then I'm always like, but now

let's think about what might be going on. And then the

quality of the conversation or the parenting is so much more robust

and integrated.

But yeah, you're right. Like, putting your kid in a

narrative is so important. Like either today or

this past week or their trauma story, whatever

it could be. It's like, yeah, answering what could be going on

underneath. Yeah, I love that. And I was going to

ask, like, how has being an adoptive parent

and a foster parent impacted how you parent your. All your

children? And it sounds like curiosity is one of those main

grounding tools you have. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah. I think that again the shift from

you will obey to let's

really look at regulation. Regulation is not a

word that I heard or used

10, 15 years ago, ever. And now it's a word

that my, you know, my toddlers say

like that is a word. That is.

Yeah, exactly. That is just an everyday,

all day kind of word. Because it is not

wrong to feel dysregulated. It is not a

misbehavior, it's not disobedience. It's not like going back to

that traditional. And there's,

there's a, an answer to it, there is something that we could do about

it. So I have had a major

shift with all of my kids of identifying,

you know, you don't just feel, oh, stress

and anger and all these like negative. We're feeling disregulated.

And the good news is when we feel disregulated, we have

tools and you know, it, it looks different for

my 2 year old or my 17 year old. My 2 year old, tons of

co regulation obviously. And, but my 17 year

old, I literally will and goodness, my husband and

myself, you know, I will say take a breath

just with my 17 year old, like I'm not, I'm not saying

okay, let's go in the corner, we're gonna go in your toolbox.

We're going to, I'm just like take a breath or you know,

go in your room for a minute, you need space. But those, those

like little like practices that we've had for

a long time of calming our body

before we do the work of

conversation and planning and repair

and all of those things that has been

huge for our family. We just, we do that

in a different way because we had

that training for our trauma kids that we really all needed.

Uh huh. It's so true. I do notice sometimes parents

will. Say, you know,

you need a break or you're mad or you know.

Yeah. Or you're narrating a bad mood. Yeah.

They'll kind of try to narrate and name it. And I've

noticed that if you aren't in a

state of bearing witness of that

dysregulation, maybe you don't want to co regulate like you're 17 year old. You're

not suggesting, hey, why don't, you

know, whatever. Why don't we sit down and like, let's have a snack together and

I'll talk to you about this in a few minutes, you know, or whatever it

is like, or why don't you just, yeah. Yell it out

a little bit. Whatever that looks like with an older teen,

most of the time, especially if they've been coached, they can kind of

check and that's. Right. You're just giving them a little pause break. Right.

Go take care of yourself. But what I've noticed is that

when we're activated, the person has a lot of trouble

receiving the note, the

feedback, because they kind of feel judged

on some level. I don't know if I'm. If you understand what I'm saying. I

totally understand what I'm saying. Yeah. It's like calm. When I talk about

become a calm mama. Calm, calm, calm. On my podcast all the time. There's like

a deeper sense. And we can get dysregulated, of course. And

we're like. You'Re just really mad. You

know, you're just acting like a really mad per. We get kind of

snarky and that's. And then the kid. It activates them

and then they. When we're trying to maybe co regulate or

help them through their dysregulation, and then it just keeps getting messier

and messier. Yeah. Yeah. We don't need to be

defensive of the fact that we're not dysregulated,

where it is easy to be defensive of the idea that you're in a

bad mood or you're being mean or you're angry

or those things. So. So, yeah, I think it brings the defenses down

to say, like, hey, I,

you know, and we again, use that word and we've. We've taken

away any stigma from it. Like, and I say it all the time

like, I'm feeling dysregulated. I need a second.

And so I do think that it. It helps. It. It. Like

you're saying we're. We're with you in it. And. And I want to

help you come down, not sort of

judge you and throw stones at you while you're in that state. State.

Yeah. So really creating a family that normalizes the language sounds

like we're all going to disregulation. And I think in our

family, I don't know how much we use dysregulation.

I think we use overwhelm a lot. Okay.

Like, I'm just feeling quite overwhelmed and I need a minute. Or you seem a

little overwhelmed and, you know, maybe you need a second. Or

let's co. Do this. Like, if you're going to co regulate, let's go do this

and get some of our big feelings out.

Yeah. But I don't think there's. There's no problem. With it's just naming. You have

to have some language as a family to like point to the thing.

Yeah. That is happening. Where we've already neutralized

it so many times that then they don't need to feel defensive or

the child doesn't need to feel attacked or judged

or whatever. Yeah. Well, but then I think sometimes we can

still say it. Like, I hear it in my clients. They're like, I was

really calm. And I was like, you are dysregulated. Right. I

was like, huh? You're not calm. Right.

That's so funny. And that's okay because it's

like a miss. It's. I. And that. That I

think is a big part about parenting, and particularly parenting kids with

trauma or neurodivergence, which is. Trauma is a

neurodivergence because it rewires the brain in proper way. Right.

How much higher a bigger lift it is

to stay regulated and how much more important it is.

That's right. And that is hard. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, what we know about what trauma does to the brain

is essentially, without getting into all of

the. The brain development is it makes the

parts that are reactive bigger and more reactive. And it makes

the parts that. That are really thoughtful and. And

do good planning and thinking smaller and.

And less potent. And so we have a brain

that is just like ready to go, ready to.

To activate. Stay activate.

Activated. Ready to get afraid and stay

afraid. And so the window of stress tolerance,

sometimes we talk about it that way. Right. Like a person who has

high cortisol naturally because of trauma or

difficulty regulating dopamine, whatever it is in the brain, then

when you add a little bit extra, it's like a full cup, it's going to

overflow really fast. But if you have a neurotypical non trauma

kid, maybe they have a bigger window. The cup is

less full, and so they can handle a little bit

more. Stimulation, a little bit

more excitement. We just had Halloween. Some kids are gonna just

be fine. They're gonna have a big, fat fun day. That's right. And they're gonna

have extra candy, and they're gonna figure it out and it's gonna be a little

wild, possibly for like 20 minutes. Then they're gonna get to bed. Right. You have

a kid with trauma, you have a kid who's neurodivergent.

You. Yeah. Kind of like you're a little bit more on top of it. Like.

No, no, no. We're only having two candies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not. Oh, we're

gonna come Inside. And we're gonna take a break. You have to do so much

effort to keep that window open for

the stress and then be ready for that pop.

Yeah, it is. Well, and then. And let's talk about what that does to you.

Yes, I do want to talk about. That as a mom because that

keeps you brimming with your

cup as well. Of now all of your

kids triggers are your triggers. And all of your. I

mean, the way that you just were even walking through Halloween.

Yeah. It's that. Oh my gosh. Okay. Oh. We have to manage

everyone and their stressors and their triggers and

their end. So it is

essentially increasing our cortisol

levels and changing our brain chemistry

and keeping us activated. And

so there then is a really

uphill battle for us as parents of kids with trauma and

neurodivergence. And neurodivergence. It just, it's

unfortunate because in that it just is so much

effort and the lift is so heavy and. And you feel like

a crazy person because you're not having a

typical experience. That's right. Right. And

you're like, I was like on so many

way in so many ways. I felt like I was always like

coming from, from infertility to adoption. It's

like the back door to parenting. I always said,

like I didn't come through the front door. Like I snuck in in the back.

And now I'm like already back here. And it's, it's very different. I

got one year olds. I didn't get NFNs. I mean, it was like I had

different experience. And then that's also my own narrative. I'm different.

Whatever. Then I'm also literally

having a different experience with a 4 year old than is typical. The

preschool teachers don't understand. Sure. The playgroups don't understand

the mom. You know, parent educators come and you raise your hand and

you're like, whenever I make cookies, it look, you know.

Yeah. It's like my child won't stop eating the sugar. And they're

like, you just need to say no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You need to be

stronger. Yeah. And have more boundaries. And then the sticker,

then. Yeah, yeah. I was like, what? That's why I do what I do. Because

I was like, those strategies are not effective.

Like, I want to find effective strategies that call me

truly. Right, right. Actually connect with my kid. Actually set boundaries.

But I just want to share with any mom out there who

is feeling that way. It's like, you can say it too. It's

not. They're not Crazy. It is harder

objectively, and they have to work harder at calming

themselves and work harder at calming their kids. Right.

And I don't know how you are doing it

with so many. Yeah, a great question.

Yeah, I. I mean, it's definitely been a journey.

And it has been

the experience of falling flat on my face

in really burnout and blocked care, and

then standing up or dragging myself up and going

like, okay, something needs to change. And the

expectation can't be that the kids are going to be the ones who

are going to change. It needs to be me. And so I had

this one time with my therapist. She was like, okay, I want you to

keep a stress journal, and I want you to kind of write what

precedes it and then what you felt in your body and where you felt it.

And it was a great idea, but by like 8am

I threw it away because I was like, this is crazy.

This is actually unhelpful because I'm stressed every

five seconds and I'm feeling it everywhere. And what it led

me to is, oh, I have to do

something about my stress level because they are going to

just absolutely hijack my nervous system every five

seconds. Yeah. And so it put me on this journey

of. Almost like

a prescription. Like, I have to

treat my body like I am a

marathon runner. Like, I am a double marathon runner,

where I have to take care of myself

in. In every way, mentally, emotionally,

physically, spiritually, so that I can show

up for them. Because when I show up for this

kind of 125% job at

50%, like, it's just not going to work.

Um, you're not going to be able to show up as the parent you want

to be. No. And the parent you want to be is actually

the parent they need in order to learn to

rewire their nervous. Systems and in order for

anything in our home to become more peaceful. Like, right, okay.

They're straight chaos. And so then it pulls me into straight

chaos, which then leaves them in the. So, like, I want the

dynamic in my home to change, but I have to be the

one who is going to be available to cope, regulate.

And if I'm not regulated, then we're all screwed.

Like, if. If I'm not in a regulated state,

then they are staying in their dysregulated state forever.

And so it's a huge pressure. But it was something that.

That I was feeling the pressure either way. Like, either I was.

Exactly. It's going to be. It's the reality

show, and you're going to feel Terrible or maybe you feel

okay and it's the reality. Yeah, yeah. And you will, it will still

be hard, but you will at least feel more equipped on some level. Yeah, right.

And so it was a click in my head for me of like, okay,

this whole, like, oh, yeah, I. I exist on like

lots of coffee and six hours sleep and I just kind of

like, no, I. I have to go

to therapy and I have to get my sleep and I have to wake up

and walk every day and read my Bible and be with my

people and Dr. And you know, all of

the things where I'm caring for my body in a

prescriptive kind of way in a. Like I'm taking my medicine

so that I can show up for my people.

And so it's been a huge shift for me in you

know, even, even just the idea

that, that for me to stay regulated

is far easier than for me to become dysregulated

and then have to reregulate. Like, what do I need to do? Okay, I have

to wake up early. I hate waking up early. Well, that means I need to

go to bed early. I hate going to bed early. But like, you know what

I hate more? I hate waking up to kids screaming and me

coming down and yelling at everyone. And now we're late and

we're stressed out and they're going to school stress. And then I'm getting a call

from the. You know, it's, it's the catch up, it's the.

All the decisions that, that hinge on the

choices that I make. And so

it had to start with me seeing myself

as sort of like the cornerstone of like the. This is what needs

to change. And we have seen

dramatic change. I mean, I wish it was

as simple as I could change my

kids. I wish it was like I could. I know if we could just manage

behavior better, we wouldn't have any problems, right?

I wish. It's not the way it works. If we are calm and

regulated, they're regulated and then they

behave off track less often. And I think

what the difference is, is that we don't now have a

home of chaos. Yeah, we have a home

of individuals who struggle

and they struggle in different ways at different times. And then

hopefully we come back down and then we have a home of

peace and joy rather than a home that lives in

chaos. And that has been the biggest

shift. Yeah, it's so great. And I think everyone's like,

how? And it's really by figuring

out where, how to calm your own nervous system. I mean,

Ultimately, it's like, is it movement? Is it

vigorous movement? Is it soft movement? Is it, you know,

having time by yourself in the morning or is it going to bed

early or is it both? You know, when you're saying, is it? Is

it? I'm like, yes, yes, right. You're right. Right. It is. It is all. And

you find one or two things. It's like, some people, it might be

meditation, but some people might be journaling. Some people might be doing more

hobbies like bringing art back into your life or turning

on music or whatever those kinds of things

are that really soothe your nervous system. And there are

general practices that are great. Move your body, move your mind. Yeah. I

mean, I would definitely say start with move your body. Yeah.

And move your mind. Yeah. And then the. The gift

is that they build upon themselves. So, like, more capacity.

You do one, it builds more capacity to time and energy for the next thing.

And that's right. So when people are saying like, oh, my gosh, is it this

or this or this? It's. You start with one and then

you experience, oh, now I actually have more capacity, I have more

energy, I actually feel more vitality to do the things that

I used to enjoy doing. And. And now the walk is

built in. That's just a normal practice. That's a rhythm. So now I'm not fighting

for that. So now I'm fighting for the journaling. Okay, now the

journaling is a rhythm. So now I'm fighting for water. And.

And it just kind of like builds upon itself. And things like starting

your day with a walk, well, that actually makes it a million times easier.

Easier to make good food choices and make good water.

You know, it. They build upon themselves. But I think when we

see our lives as out of control,

which when you have trauma in your home, you can feel like, I didn't

cause any of this and I can't

fix any of this. And both of those things are true, but

they can leave you to feeling completely out of control. Well, powerless.

Yeah. Yeah. So then if you're a victim to everything happening

in your home, then you go like, well, what's the point?

Well, this is all just going to stay like this. Well,

seeing that you actually have power to change the dynamic in

your home, it starts to change everything. It

starts to change the way you approach your kids, starts to change

the way you approach your day. And so it's

huge, it's massive to change this mindset

to, oh, I actually can make a difference in the dynamic of

my home. Yeah, it's very empowering, for sure.

I think all those physical activities and

things that we do are really important. I think also big thing

for me was really that mindset shift to

see behavior as.

Pain. Ultimately, I'll say something's like, this

is pain talking. Because then if I'm

not so hyper focused on fix it, change it, stop it, solve

it, like, get it done, stop it. What can we do if. If I'm in

that immerse, if I look at my children's behavior and I'm like,

like, if I keep panicking, sure about it when

I see it and I want to be reactive and do something and get rid

of it and like, deal, or if there's an urgency there, then

I'm kind of firing my nervous system all day long to that

fight flight. Right. But if I just actively

change the way I view it in the first place. That's good. And

see it as a. An emotion

that is struggling to be expressed or a need that's struggling

to be met, then I won't be so activated.

Especially if I have the confidence like what you're saying. If I have the confidence

that I can help that feeling or I can

meet that need on some level. Yeah. There's nothing to panic about.

No, there's nothing panic about now. My brain is. Is okay. My body is

okay. That's a great point. I'm not activated at all. And

it's like deeper sense of like, I'm

okay, we're okay, it's okay. When I can.

I call it internalized security. It's like. Especially because I have such

a trauma background myself.

Been through so many traumatic things. Even for infertility is an adult trauma.

Like so many things. Parent loss. I mean, it goes on and on. But.

I have a preset in some ways to look at the world as

dangerous. Sure. And to see myself

as like always being ready to like, fight and like protect or

run away, whatever it is. And I was reproaching my children's

behavior from that mindset. Sure. And when I started

to heal that starting with them just like, they are not

out to get me. These. They're not actually

lions about to attack or cheetah's about to come get me. Like, I'm okay.

Yeah. Then I wasn't so activated. So it's kind of like both.

And let me take my journey sort of full circle the way

you just did. Because same thing. If I don't see every behavior as

wrong as sin, you

know, as in the Christian narrative, as like, this

is something that needs to change immediately because this is going

to bring destruction to you. Like, it's the same thing

of that's what brings the fear and the panic is this is going

to ruin your life. Instead of just like you're

saying, like, oh, you're going through something hard right now. Like, oh, yeah, this

is, this is a sad thing. And, and you need your mom to, to sit

with you through it. Like, emotions come, emotions go, they

pass. You're all right. Yeah. If I,

I can't go to that energy if I'm not like, we're

all right. Sure, sure. And I think we get there

through those practices of what movement,

Right. Rhythm, like moving our bodies in a rhythmic way, like walking

is main one. And

having times of quiet, having times of reflection, prayer,

meditation, reading spiritual books.

Self help books, if those are helpful journaling. I

think those are times when we can be teaching our nervous system we're okay.

Like, you're resetting, right. You're dealing with that stress juice. You're coming down to

baseline. And the more often you're at baseline,

longer you can keep it there. Right. And when you teach

yourself to not get activated, you go, you're like, oh, oh, no, no, no.

Okay, go back to that. Right. Whatever experience

my baseline was activated was high. Yeah.

Baseline all the time. Yeah. So, yeah, to be able to switch that

of, oh, I'm actually thinking staying in a place of regulation and there are times

where, oh, yeah, I'm. I am activated. I am dysregulated. There

is something scary and hard going on, but that now

I can come back to the basic tools. Yeah, yeah. Oh,

kind of like, oh, I live up here. Yes. And I think that's very

easy for families. There's a lot going on in families and

there's a lot of pressure on moms. Motherhood is,

you know, intensive. Mothering is the period of parenting we are in.

And it's a high.

High stress environment that we've created for

ourselves, like in some ways. And so not even from

trauma. It's like almost the toxicity of the parenting culture

right now is so disruptive

to our nervous system in general. Well, and with foster care,

I have chosen it over and over and over for a long period of

time. So like I had a seven, you know, I have a 17 and a

14 year old. Like, I could be done. You could be almost done

parenting anymore. And I also have a two year old. So there's also

this like, oh, I have stayed. I have been changing diapers for 17

years. I have been Being woken up in the middle of the night and

chasing around a toddler in a parking lot for 17 years

now. And so, yeah, there is this, like, the way a new mom

feels like of, oh, my gosh, the toddler. Where are they?

And I'm now in my 40s, and

I've been doing it for 17 years. And yeah, there is this, like, really

prolonged sort of stress of that

foster care brings. Forget the trauma piece, just the

parenting over and over. Just having young children over and over again

in your house. Yeah. So that's. You have to work extra hard

for sure. And I love it. I think what

you're doing is incredible. Jamie and your family and

just providing a safe place for children.

It's really beautiful. And hearing just

the stories that come from foster care and some of them are

so tragic. And knowing that there's safe families that

kids can land in while they figure out placement, long term or

reunification, whatever's the goal.

You're doing such good work. Oh, thank you. It's really a joy. We

love the kids and it really is an honor. It's a privilege.

So we really see the blessing

that it is for us that we get to play a part in these kids

stories and their healing. Even though, as we've talked about

for the past, however long, it's hard. And it brings a lot of hard into

our family and our lives. Yeah. But also growth, I think. So much

growth. Right. You just learn deeper and deeper levels of what you're capable of

and, like, why things bother you. And it's just kind

of an invitation over and over for. For growth and for sure

expansion. So. For sure. Yeah. Even though

I'm like, I'm tired of growing. Yeah. Can we just

take a nap? All right. So how can people find you? What

do you. Oh, we want to talk a little bit about your book. For those

people who live a gospel centered life, you have your book

God Loves Kids for kids in the foster

system. It's really beautiful. Yeah, it's. It's a book. It's actually

a book for all kids, but it's a book about foster care. So for

kids in foster care or kids in foster families or kids

just learning about foster care and walks through

foster care and then. Yeah, that. Just this big picture

of God's love for kids over all of the hard

that kids are walking through, which is very real. And so I'm not shying

away from the hard. It is. It is. No, it's really honest. It's

really. Yeah. Beautifully written. Yeah. But, yeah, I share

again about the hard and, you know, always the and of

of it all, the hard and the beautiful of foster care and, and our

family at Foster the Family blog on

social media and online. And

I lead an organization called Foster the Family. So that's Foster the Family.

Org, but those are the places that you can find me online. Yeah.

If you're at all curious. That's so good. Well, thank you so much for being

on the podcast. Thank you. Thanks for having me, Darlene. It was really great to

talk.