1 00:00:00,033 --> 00:00:00,953 Erin Austin: Hello, ladies. 2 00:00:00,953 --> 00:00:04,233 Welcome to this week's edition of the hourly to exit podcast. 3 00:00:04,497 --> 00:00:08,152 I have a wonderful guest for you today, Samantha Hartley. 4 00:00:08,152 --> 00:00:09,102 Welcome Samantha. 5 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:10,513 Thank you, Erin. 6 00:00:10,744 --> 00:00:12,502 Well, thank you so much for joining us. 7 00:00:12,502 --> 00:00:15,452 You know, we have a lot to talk about, but before we dive in, 8 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:16,705 would you introduce yourself 9 00:00:16,705 --> 00:00:17,325 Samantha Hartley: to the audience? 10 00:00:17,761 --> 00:00:18,058 Yes. 11 00:00:18,098 --> 00:00:19,048 I'm Samantha Hartley. 12 00:00:19,078 --> 00:00:20,938 My business is, samanthahartley. 13 00:00:20,968 --> 00:00:24,024 com and I'm also known as Enlightened Marketing. 14 00:00:24,054 --> 00:00:26,364 And I have a podcast called Profitable Joyful Consulting. 15 00:00:26,364 --> 00:00:30,421 So those are the brand family and I am a consultant to consultants. 16 00:00:30,421 --> 00:00:34,011 So I work with, women management consultants who are working 17 00:00:34,011 --> 00:00:37,130 with businesses anywhere from 2 million to multi billions. 18 00:00:37,500 --> 00:00:42,087 And usually they are experiencing the revenue roller coaster. 19 00:00:42,087 --> 00:00:45,107 And sometimes they're so slammed with work in the business that 20 00:00:45,137 --> 00:00:46,737 it's impossible for them to grow. 21 00:00:46,910 --> 00:00:51,567 So I help them to multiply their revenues without exhaustion, working with perfect 22 00:00:51,567 --> 00:00:53,637 clients on transformational engagements. 23 00:00:53,677 --> 00:00:57,047 Those are year long, multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars. 24 00:00:57,057 --> 00:01:00,817 So when they do that, they start to experience more profit and 25 00:01:00,817 --> 00:01:01,927 more joy in their businesses. 26 00:01:02,243 --> 00:01:02,623 Sounds 27 00:01:02,623 --> 00:01:03,153 Erin Austin: perfect. 28 00:01:03,163 --> 00:01:04,033 Sounds great. 29 00:01:04,247 --> 00:01:08,717 So before we get started, I wanted to talk about, well, myself for a second. 30 00:01:08,937 --> 00:01:11,597 So I'm about to be an empty nester. 31 00:01:11,637 --> 00:01:12,707 Oh, I'm counting the days. 32 00:01:13,766 --> 00:01:17,000 And so thinking about, you know, where next I know I'm not going to 33 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,047 stay where I am, which is in, kind of the excerpts of Washington, D. 34 00:01:20,047 --> 00:01:20,417 C. 35 00:01:20,647 --> 00:01:25,047 And so I'm asking people about, where they live and what they love about it 36 00:01:25,047 --> 00:01:26,820 and might it be a place for an empty 37 00:01:26,820 --> 00:01:27,230 Samantha Hartley: nester. 38 00:01:27,463 --> 00:01:30,825 Oh, it's well, Martha's Vineyard is where I live year round. 39 00:01:30,835 --> 00:01:34,628 It is a fantastic place to live nine months of the year. 40 00:01:34,758 --> 00:01:37,555 And so I highly urge you to go and visit it. 41 00:01:37,555 --> 00:01:38,815 It's a great place to visit. 42 00:01:38,835 --> 00:01:42,158 I would say get an for a month and just check it out. 43 00:01:42,365 --> 00:01:46,708 In the summertime, it swells to 150 to 200, 000 a month. 44 00:01:46,848 --> 00:01:47,348 people. 45 00:01:47,508 --> 00:01:52,165 And in the wintertime, it shrinks to about 15, 000 to 20, 000. 46 00:01:52,195 --> 00:01:57,048 So we have a huge bustling tourist economy, but it's a tiny island, a proper 47 00:01:57,048 --> 00:01:59,158 island, no bridges, no anything like that. 48 00:01:59,348 --> 00:02:01,735 You get there by a boat or by an airplane. 49 00:02:01,898 --> 00:02:05,898 It's only 45 minutes off the coast of Cape Cod. 50 00:02:05,898 --> 00:02:09,026 So you can see the shore from The island. 51 00:02:09,265 --> 00:02:11,880 And, you may have a lot of people have not heard of Martha's Vineyard, but may 52 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:13,340 have heard of Nantucket or Cape Cod. 53 00:02:13,340 --> 00:02:15,480 That's all the Cape and islands are all a thing. 54 00:02:15,686 --> 00:02:18,273 and it's a wonderful place to live right now, though, it 55 00:02:18,273 --> 00:02:20,366 has a very long yucky spring. 56 00:02:20,376 --> 00:02:24,323 And so I'm actually in Arkansas where I grew up, Arkansas, I can 57 00:02:24,323 --> 00:02:27,316 tell you, and especially the town I'm in right now, Conway, Conway, 58 00:02:27,316 --> 00:02:28,676 Arkansas is a college town. 59 00:02:28,686 --> 00:02:32,426 There's three colleges here, including the university of central Arkansas. 60 00:02:32,694 --> 00:02:38,096 So there's tons of wonderful things going on, and it's, has four seasons, also one 61 00:02:38,096 --> 00:02:41,479 of which is unbearable, so our friends that we live with right now come and visit 62 00:02:41,479 --> 00:02:45,641 us during the summertime, and we come to them in the spring, so we're having 66 63 00:02:45,885 --> 00:02:48,131 degrees while they're having a snowstorm that's closing down the vineyard. 64 00:02:48,601 --> 00:02:49,191 Oh, that is great. 65 00:02:49,211 --> 00:02:50,398 So I recommend two locations. 66 00:02:50,669 --> 00:02:54,772 that's my empty nester suggestion is always have two locations where you 67 00:02:54,772 --> 00:02:57,462 can experience the best of both worlds. 68 00:02:57,657 --> 00:03:00,748 Erin Austin: Well, I will say that one of my, I guess it's my bucket list is 69 00:03:00,978 --> 00:03:04,928 to just always be in summer, just, you spend, summer, summer in the northern 70 00:03:04,948 --> 00:03:08,558 hemisphere and winter, summer in the southern hemisphere and never I'm. 71 00:03:08,558 --> 00:03:09,855 so over four seasons. 72 00:03:10,069 --> 00:03:14,953 I don't ever need to have any season other than summer for the rest of my life. 73 00:03:15,158 --> 00:03:18,093 And yeah, so I've been to Martha's Vineyard, but only in the summer 74 00:03:18,103 --> 00:03:19,493 and only during the tourist season. 75 00:03:19,493 --> 00:03:23,623 And I will only go when I can fly there directly from Nashville because I, so 76 00:03:23,623 --> 00:03:27,063 I've never done the, ferry, although I think that would be an adventure. 77 00:03:27,093 --> 00:03:28,859 So I should try that sometime. 78 00:03:28,909 --> 00:03:29,899 So thank you for that. 79 00:03:29,899 --> 00:03:30,989 I wondered what it's like. 80 00:03:31,171 --> 00:03:36,307 They're, off season and I don't know why, but for some reason I thought because of 81 00:03:36,307 --> 00:03:39,527 the, whatever the currents, whatever that you didn't get snowstorms, but you do. 82 00:03:39,777 --> 00:03:40,171 Okay. 83 00:03:40,447 --> 00:03:40,692 Samantha Hartley: All right. 84 00:03:40,692 --> 00:03:41,182 Oh, yes. 85 00:03:41,264 --> 00:03:43,286 We don't get anything as bad as they get on the mainland. 86 00:03:43,286 --> 00:03:45,346 So it's cooler in the summer than on the mainland. 87 00:03:45,356 --> 00:03:47,063 And all the weather's always milder there. 88 00:03:47,301 --> 00:03:47,676 Erin Austin: All right. 89 00:03:47,676 --> 00:03:48,286 Well, good to know. 90 00:03:48,306 --> 00:03:49,716 I'm taking notes here. 91 00:03:50,076 --> 00:03:50,326 Right. 92 00:03:50,878 --> 00:03:57,379 So tell me about your typical client and, how do you help him or her and 93 00:03:57,499 --> 00:03:59,749 how do they know that they need you? 94 00:03:59,789 --> 00:04:01,089 what pain are they experiencing? 95 00:04:01,149 --> 00:04:02,609 Like I need to go talk with Samantha. 96 00:04:02,796 --> 00:04:05,763 Samantha Hartley: She's a her usually and her business is somewhere in the 97 00:04:05,763 --> 00:04:09,743 low six figures and she aspires to have a business in the low seven figures. 98 00:04:09,903 --> 00:04:14,146 So usually one to 2 million is what they're looking for from their business. 99 00:04:14,386 --> 00:04:18,542 And, what they're experiencing is revenue rollercoaster means they, 100 00:04:18,592 --> 00:04:21,742 have wonderful high months, but they also have some terrifying low months. 101 00:04:21,792 --> 00:04:25,452 And that kind of inconsistency of revenues is super stressful. 102 00:04:25,522 --> 00:04:27,342 And they're not quite sure how to fix that problem. 103 00:04:27,546 --> 00:04:31,122 They also might be experiencing that they don't have revenue roller coaster. 104 00:04:31,152 --> 00:04:33,382 They just have all slammed all the time. 105 00:04:33,637 --> 00:04:39,434 And the owner is, this is usually a business that's, 500 to 750, and 106 00:04:39,484 --> 00:04:41,314 they can't imagine a way to grow. 107 00:04:41,354 --> 00:04:42,164 I can't imagine it. 108 00:04:42,174 --> 00:04:44,071 So those, particular consultants. 109 00:04:44,671 --> 00:04:48,211 Need me sometimes they're agency owners, but most often management consultants and 110 00:04:48,211 --> 00:04:50,041 they're working with sometimes businesses. 111 00:04:50,041 --> 00:04:54,051 You've heard of like the, fortune 500, but a lot of times it's just kind of, 112 00:04:54,171 --> 00:04:58,237 midsize manufacturers or other kind of like mom and pops who are near them. 113 00:04:58,411 --> 00:05:01,271 And I think what happens for a lot of us, a lot of my clients 114 00:05:01,271 --> 00:05:02,481 are like me, ex corporate. 115 00:05:02,481 --> 00:05:06,161 So we came out of corporate and we have a set of skills that didn't necessarily 116 00:05:06,171 --> 00:05:09,531 include figuring out how to run a specifically consulting business. 117 00:05:09,551 --> 00:05:12,697 And so when they come to me, I'm like, well, there's just some stuff to know. 118 00:05:12,881 --> 00:05:13,857 And it's this, this, and this. 119 00:05:13,887 --> 00:05:16,757 And so really quickly, we can turn their business around. 120 00:05:16,757 --> 00:05:20,504 So for example, one of my clients she's a fashion consultant. 121 00:05:20,514 --> 00:05:23,604 She works with high fashion brands to help them. 122 00:05:23,794 --> 00:05:25,307 do visual merchandising. 123 00:05:25,539 --> 00:05:30,072 And when she came to me, her business was doing really well, it was very much 124 00:05:30,152 --> 00:05:34,902 time based, so hourly business and went from month to month with those clients. 125 00:05:34,902 --> 00:05:38,212 And she didn't necessarily, again, it's like smart people, but there are certain 126 00:05:38,232 --> 00:05:39,532 things that just don't occur to them. 127 00:05:39,748 --> 00:05:43,259 So she hadn't thought of like, Setting up contractual relationships 128 00:05:43,259 --> 00:05:45,699 with them where she works long term and there are certain commitments 129 00:05:45,709 --> 00:05:47,089 from her side and from their side. 130 00:05:47,301 --> 00:05:50,399 And so we just put a lot more structure and formality around her 131 00:05:50,399 --> 00:05:54,816 business, improved her selling ability, other, you basic skills like that. 132 00:05:54,816 --> 00:05:56,166 She doesn't actually even need marketing. 133 00:05:56,166 --> 00:05:59,928 She has so many clients coming to her, but being able to enroll clients at 134 00:05:59,928 --> 00:06:04,978 higher value and for longer term, it just immediately took the bumps out 135 00:06:04,978 --> 00:06:06,875 of her business and out her revenues. 136 00:06:07,144 --> 00:06:11,010 And Just yesterday, we were talking about it and the kind of relief that 137 00:06:11,010 --> 00:06:14,570 she's feeling the ability to go away from the business and come back and just 138 00:06:14,580 --> 00:06:16,420 knowing that those revenues are stable. 139 00:06:16,420 --> 00:06:20,946 She finds she feels more passionate for her work, excited about the business. 140 00:06:20,946 --> 00:06:23,636 And so that's been, really gratifying to see that result. 141 00:06:23,871 --> 00:06:25,676 And it's not an unusual result. 142 00:06:25,766 --> 00:06:28,170 Like so often I'll be talking with a client who's been working 143 00:06:28,170 --> 00:06:31,088 with me for a while, and they're, just have that peace that you have 144 00:06:31,088 --> 00:06:32,398 when you have stable revenues. 145 00:06:32,618 --> 00:06:32,888 Yeah, 146 00:06:32,898 --> 00:06:33,518 Erin Austin: absolutely. 147 00:06:33,705 --> 00:06:33,858 Yeah. 148 00:06:33,858 --> 00:06:38,398 I mean, that making that transition from hourly to something other than hourly is 149 00:06:38,398 --> 00:06:40,588 a big stumbling block for lots of people. 150 00:06:40,801 --> 00:06:44,671 And I was having a conversation with someone couple weeks ago 151 00:06:44,888 --> 00:06:46,125 where they were coming directly. 152 00:06:46,125 --> 00:06:48,845 They referred to me as a lawyer to help them protect their intellectual 153 00:06:48,845 --> 00:06:51,161 property, but they were still billing. 154 00:06:51,643 --> 00:06:52,283 Hourly. 155 00:06:52,383 --> 00:06:55,316 And I'm like, well, first of all, everything was just kind of an extra 156 00:06:55,446 --> 00:06:57,620 set of hands, they're technology based. 157 00:06:57,620 --> 00:07:00,510 And so they could, program things, they can do implementation, 158 00:07:00,510 --> 00:07:01,410 they can do strategy. 159 00:07:01,566 --> 00:07:04,526 They did all the things, for, their clients, whatever the 160 00:07:04,526 --> 00:07:05,586 clients asked, we can do that. 161 00:07:05,596 --> 00:07:07,725 Like, and they were very proud of the fact that they can do 162 00:07:07,725 --> 00:07:08,846 whatever it is that you need to do. 163 00:07:08,846 --> 00:07:13,140 And I'm like, I don't think you're quite ready for me because you need 164 00:07:13,140 --> 00:07:15,373 to figure out a way to kind of. 165 00:07:15,691 --> 00:07:18,795 put your stake in the ground about doing something in particular what's 166 00:07:18,795 --> 00:07:21,935 the point of making you more efficient with intellectual property when 167 00:07:21,935 --> 00:07:23,365 you're building by the hour, like. 168 00:07:23,615 --> 00:07:27,506 That just means yes, you're gonna bill less , you know? 169 00:07:27,771 --> 00:07:27,956 Samantha Hartley: Yeah, 170 00:07:28,196 --> 00:07:28,316 Erin Austin: yeah. 171 00:07:28,316 --> 00:07:28,826 Exactly. 172 00:07:28,886 --> 00:07:29,126 Yeah. 173 00:07:29,126 --> 00:07:33,258 You know, so let's, get you to a business coach first to get you like, 174 00:07:33,385 --> 00:07:35,925 figuring out your business model and then let's, talk about how we 175 00:07:35,925 --> 00:07:37,260 make sure that we start building, 176 00:07:37,580 --> 00:07:38,021 Samantha Hartley: It's right. 177 00:07:38,021 --> 00:07:40,331 But who taught business models when we all started? 178 00:07:40,351 --> 00:07:42,628 Like, when you kind of put out your stake, you're like, usually, 179 00:07:42,628 --> 00:07:45,548 especially in professions that are traditionally built by the hour, like 180 00:07:45,548 --> 00:07:48,281 even the visual merchandising, most people, they think, well, how would 181 00:07:48,281 --> 00:07:49,491 you bill if it wasn't that way? 182 00:07:49,678 --> 00:07:52,541 So interestingly, I've worked with it consultants who came to 183 00:07:52,541 --> 00:07:55,341 me with that situation and they were earning really well, but it 184 00:07:55,341 --> 00:07:56,318 was like, they would have like a. 185 00:07:56,318 --> 00:07:58,708 50, 000 a month and then like a 20, 000 a month. 186 00:07:58,728 --> 00:08:01,268 So there's just these peaks and valleys in their billing. 187 00:08:01,435 --> 00:08:04,238 But the problem was when they have team members who are billing by 188 00:08:04,238 --> 00:08:07,268 the hour, they couldn't allocate those team members properly because 189 00:08:07,268 --> 00:08:08,708 they didn't know the fluctuations. 190 00:08:08,708 --> 00:08:10,471 Like how much are we going to build this month and how much 191 00:08:10,471 --> 00:08:11,351 are we going to build that month? 192 00:08:11,510 --> 00:08:15,588 And so what it required was saying to the client, between all 193 00:08:15,588 --> 00:08:16,718 the, Partners and team members. 194 00:08:16,865 --> 00:08:19,088 We're working for you 40 hours this month, and then 10 this 195 00:08:19,088 --> 00:08:20,308 month, and then 30, and then 20. 196 00:08:20,328 --> 00:08:21,968 Like, we can't schedule our people. 197 00:08:21,968 --> 00:08:23,048 We can't figure things out. 198 00:08:23,238 --> 00:08:24,208 So let's do this. 199 00:08:24,593 --> 00:08:26,371 We're going to chart out the work. 200 00:08:26,391 --> 00:08:28,851 We'll schedule the work, and you'll know when we're going to be there, and 201 00:08:28,851 --> 00:08:29,901 we'll know what we're going to be doing. 202 00:08:29,941 --> 00:08:32,701 And we're just going to be doing it, with this kind of a schedule. 203 00:08:32,701 --> 00:08:34,721 So we give them like a project implementation plan 204 00:08:34,721 --> 00:08:35,611 of how we're going to work. 205 00:08:35,745 --> 00:08:38,978 And no matter how many hours that is, we'll levelize this 206 00:08:38,998 --> 00:08:40,648 building so that it's a flat. 207 00:08:41,356 --> 00:08:45,125 the number is, for example, 40 K each month that way, you'll 208 00:08:45,125 --> 00:08:47,068 know, how much it's going to be. 209 00:08:47,068 --> 00:08:50,348 You won't have lumpy expenses because even big companies don't want lumpy expenses, 210 00:08:50,595 --> 00:08:54,571 and then we'll have the predictability of where our people will be and when. 211 00:08:54,601 --> 00:08:57,021 And so when they did that, they just charted it out. 212 00:08:57,145 --> 00:08:59,018 We think the project is going to take us this long. 213 00:08:59,018 --> 00:08:59,818 It was 12 months. 214 00:08:59,858 --> 00:09:00,808 We were going to do this. 215 00:09:01,058 --> 00:09:03,926 Now you may see us more one month and less another month. 216 00:09:04,036 --> 00:09:05,156 It'll all come out in the wash. 217 00:09:05,196 --> 00:09:08,216 We're just going to deliver on these specific deliverables. 218 00:09:08,493 --> 00:09:10,998 and so we put that plan together. 219 00:09:11,086 --> 00:09:14,156 They went and sold it and it was immediately, that was a 40 K a month. 220 00:09:14,393 --> 00:09:18,525 So it's a 480, 000 engagement that immediately after we set it up, like 221 00:09:18,525 --> 00:09:20,084 within a week, they had sold that one in. 222 00:09:20,226 --> 00:09:22,939 And then they did that with their subsequent clients. 223 00:09:22,939 --> 00:09:26,452 And pushback is always, what if they're like, what, how much is by the hour? 224 00:09:26,573 --> 00:09:28,759 And what I taught them to say was, that's not how we work. 225 00:09:29,226 --> 00:09:30,066 That's not how we work. 226 00:09:30,106 --> 00:09:31,366 We don't work by the hour. 227 00:09:31,523 --> 00:09:32,867 we don't sell anything by the hour. 228 00:09:32,962 --> 00:09:33,992 And that is not how we work. 229 00:09:34,012 --> 00:09:38,262 And if you can begin to transition your clients to where it's about outcomes 230 00:09:38,519 --> 00:09:40,905 and not about the hours, Then they'll come to you when they'll need you. 231 00:09:41,290 --> 00:09:41,579 Erin Austin: Yeah. 232 00:09:41,684 --> 00:09:44,995 And that brings us to, becoming more effective and more efficient 233 00:09:44,995 --> 00:09:47,782 because then that, of course, increases your profitability. 234 00:09:47,941 --> 00:09:51,356 But just to back up to the example that I was talking about, what he 235 00:09:51,356 --> 00:09:53,636 did is that he had subcontractors. 236 00:09:53,646 --> 00:09:57,583 So he would bring on, but he could never like, obviously get any more profitable 237 00:09:57,583 --> 00:09:59,393 because he could just sell more hours. 238 00:09:59,393 --> 00:10:03,329 And then, okay, he was building the client X and then he was getting 239 00:10:03,329 --> 00:10:05,199 billed by his subcontractors Y. 240 00:10:05,209 --> 00:10:07,009 And then all he ever had was that differential. 241 00:10:07,414 --> 00:10:08,688 It could never get anywhere. 242 00:10:08,688 --> 00:10:09,738 It's like, I can't get anywhere. 243 00:10:09,738 --> 00:10:12,204 Well, because Yeah. 244 00:10:12,334 --> 00:10:13,684 one, because your business model's broken. 245 00:10:13,744 --> 00:10:14,409 Yes, exactly. 246 00:10:14,674 --> 00:10:15,274 Exactly. 247 00:10:15,459 --> 00:10:21,088 Alright, so, let's get to, becoming more efficient and effective with our delivery 248 00:10:21,093 --> 00:10:22,951 so that we can increase our profits. 249 00:10:22,951 --> 00:10:27,091 So you've already introduced the topic and so how do you. 250 00:10:27,273 --> 00:10:30,358 Help people get comfortable with that transition. 251 00:10:30,368 --> 00:10:33,071 Cause that's it, you know, it's great to say, we don't build by 252 00:10:33,071 --> 00:10:35,341 the hour, but that's really scary. 253 00:10:35,521 --> 00:10:40,368 when you are there with the client and feeling comfortable with, I can 254 00:10:40,388 --> 00:10:43,988 actually scope this out in a way that I know is going to be profitable 255 00:10:43,998 --> 00:10:46,688 and that I'm not going to, cause the clients are going to come in with 256 00:10:46,688 --> 00:10:47,798 changes and they're going to want this. 257 00:10:47,798 --> 00:10:51,231 And then suddenly it's like a totally, you know, so how do we, get from 258 00:10:51,231 --> 00:10:51,378 Samantha Hartley: there? 259 00:10:51,844 --> 00:10:53,381 there's a lot of client management in this. 260 00:10:53,381 --> 00:10:57,234 There's also the expertise of knowing, like, if we plan this out, we can 261 00:10:57,234 --> 00:10:58,564 tell how long it's going to take. 262 00:10:58,614 --> 00:11:01,424 So if you're new in your business and you don't know, then it might 263 00:11:01,424 --> 00:11:06,658 be better for you to do more hourly pricing or, flat rate pricing. 264 00:11:06,843 --> 00:11:10,264 whenever I've had a client who's done this and there's been like massive overruns. 265 00:11:10,609 --> 00:11:12,778 Well, then they can go to their client and say, listen, you we 266 00:11:12,778 --> 00:11:15,268 budgeted it for this and this, we're having these massive overruns. 267 00:11:15,268 --> 00:11:16,708 I mean, just because we said it was going to be this, it 268 00:11:16,708 --> 00:11:17,821 doesn't mean you know, we can, 269 00:11:18,226 --> 00:11:21,978 Allow for this kind of whatever to be out of control so you can have and I call 270 00:11:21,978 --> 00:11:26,001 those grown up conversations like you can have a conversation with a client. 271 00:11:26,178 --> 00:11:28,686 I was about to say confrontational, but it doesn't have to feel 272 00:11:28,748 --> 00:11:32,084 confrontational, meaning you can just address the situation. 273 00:11:32,254 --> 00:11:36,178 But when you're mature enough in your work, and this is usually 274 00:11:36,281 --> 00:11:37,651 within the 2nd or 3rd year. 275 00:11:37,841 --> 00:11:41,158 You know, if I come in and I do this work, like my clients in the 276 00:11:41,158 --> 00:11:44,134 situation, we're going to have 14 members on this, they're going to be 277 00:11:44,134 --> 00:11:45,871 giving it, is time based for them. 278 00:11:45,871 --> 00:11:48,858 They're going to each be giving it five hours, or five days of their time. 279 00:11:48,858 --> 00:11:50,308 It's going to add up to this much. 280 00:11:50,471 --> 00:11:55,461 so they could mix and match that according to their expertise from the client 281 00:11:55,461 --> 00:11:58,828 side, though, it can seem like, well, the client isn't interested in this. 282 00:11:58,828 --> 00:12:02,068 They don't want to overpay per hour, but it's anytime we pay anything. 283 00:12:02,278 --> 00:12:06,673 I've estimated what the hours are, and, , it doesn't really matter what the time is. 284 00:12:06,713 --> 00:12:10,713 What the client cares about are either deliverables or outcome or both. 285 00:12:10,783 --> 00:12:13,333 What they really want is like, just solve my problem. 286 00:12:13,534 --> 00:12:17,341 And especially if you're doing complicated digital transformation, which I team 287 00:12:17,341 --> 00:12:19,174 might do or for a lot of my clients. 288 00:12:19,174 --> 00:12:22,958 A lot of my clients are leadership consultants or culture consultants, 289 00:12:22,968 --> 00:12:27,528 and they're going in and they're trying to make massive organizational 290 00:12:27,528 --> 00:12:29,461 change, transformational change. 291 00:12:29,638 --> 00:12:32,758 So figure out what are the specific changes that we want to achieve? 292 00:12:32,768 --> 00:12:34,457 Like, what's the goal of this initiative? 293 00:12:34,627 --> 00:12:37,234 And then, how will we know it's been accomplished? 294 00:12:37,244 --> 00:12:39,801 So what kind of behaviors do we want to see? 295 00:12:39,801 --> 00:12:42,511 What kind of conditions in the work environment do we want to see? 296 00:12:42,727 --> 00:12:46,591 So you're teaching the client to measure according to that as opposed 297 00:12:46,601 --> 00:12:48,161 to the number of hours you put in. 298 00:12:48,384 --> 00:12:52,084 Now, one of the things that, I think is important for consultants in general is 299 00:12:52,114 --> 00:12:54,971 to know what outcomes you can promise. 300 00:12:55,396 --> 00:12:59,169 So very often when we're doing hourly work, we're just saying, I'm just 301 00:12:59,169 --> 00:13:04,622 going to show up forgive me, but like run my you know, be in my genius, but 302 00:13:04,759 --> 00:13:08,369 you just show up and you like do your thing and then you get paid for that. 303 00:13:08,949 --> 00:13:12,999 It's a very different level of responsibility, but also level 304 00:13:12,999 --> 00:13:16,086 of fulfillment when you can say, No, actually, let me take the 305 00:13:16,086 --> 00:13:18,790 lead in this instead of like, we're going to do 30 hours. 306 00:13:18,902 --> 00:13:21,306 And at the end of it, you'll have 30 hours of access to me. 307 00:13:21,306 --> 00:13:23,809 And I don't know going to happen with that, but probably we'll accomplish 308 00:13:23,809 --> 00:13:25,496 your goals in this situation. 309 00:13:25,506 --> 00:13:29,609 You're saying over the course of a year or whatever, time duration, we're 310 00:13:29,609 --> 00:13:33,529 going to make these transformations in your organization or in your business. 311 00:13:33,752 --> 00:13:37,199 And again, like, to me, there's more responsibility with that, 312 00:13:37,199 --> 00:13:38,836 but I'm excited to do that. 313 00:13:38,836 --> 00:13:41,396 Most of my clients are like, they want that challenge. 314 00:13:41,576 --> 00:13:45,369 So it just changes the dialogue from showing up to 315 00:13:45,379 --> 00:13:46,759 not presence, but performance. 316 00:13:47,019 --> 00:13:47,329 Erin Austin: Yeah. 317 00:13:47,347 --> 00:13:50,972 And I'm not a business coach, but I try to pretend to be one every once in a while. 318 00:13:50,972 --> 00:13:53,272 Somebody asked me, I'll tell them what I think, because I listen 319 00:13:53,272 --> 00:13:54,559 to people's podcasts like yours. 320 00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:57,202 When I was talking to this person about like, how, like, I don't 321 00:13:57,202 --> 00:14:00,692 know how I can possibly flat fee something because I have no idea. 322 00:14:00,902 --> 00:14:03,662 And I'm like, it sounds like you don't really know your clients that 323 00:14:03,662 --> 00:14:05,796 well, but you don't know who they are. 324 00:14:05,796 --> 00:14:06,656 You don't know what their problems are. 325 00:14:06,656 --> 00:14:09,396 You don't know how to, you're just kind of going in there and turning 326 00:14:09,396 --> 00:14:11,502 in hours because otherwise you would. 327 00:14:11,596 --> 00:14:15,206 They have a pretty good idea about what needs to be done in order 328 00:14:15,206 --> 00:14:17,136 to get the result that they want. 329 00:14:17,186 --> 00:14:18,956 And then you could put a price on that. 330 00:14:19,149 --> 00:14:23,616 so that maturity thing, you know, and having, doing some figuring out either. 331 00:14:23,756 --> 00:14:29,095 a niche, type of client that you can have or specific problem that you solve so 332 00:14:29,305 --> 00:14:32,735 that you can kind of get really good at it and, develop a program around that. 333 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,230 Samantha Hartley: and that's where your signature system is also going to 334 00:14:35,230 --> 00:14:38,693 come in because in the first year, it's easy for me to say, and, you know, and 335 00:14:38,693 --> 00:14:40,083 then go in there and do your process. 336 00:14:40,083 --> 00:14:42,136 But I do work with plenty of people who are like, Oh, I don't 337 00:14:42,136 --> 00:14:43,286 know that I really have a process. 338 00:14:43,286 --> 00:14:45,503 And as you and I both will say, they do. 339 00:14:45,523 --> 00:14:47,550 They just, it might not be obvious to them yet. 340 00:14:47,713 --> 00:14:52,233 So what I usually say is, spend a year or two in your work, see which things 341 00:14:52,233 --> 00:14:56,596 get repeated, see what kind of challenges you enjoy working on, and then you're 342 00:14:56,596 --> 00:14:58,793 going to develop solutions to that. 343 00:14:59,376 --> 00:15:04,024 So year two or three is when, what I noticed with my clients, they start 344 00:15:04,034 --> 00:15:06,174 to say, okay, I see what I'm doing. 345 00:15:06,174 --> 00:15:08,850 And then their signature system begins to emerge and sometimes 346 00:15:08,850 --> 00:15:09,920 we'll help them with that. 347 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:11,904 And sometimes that's the thing that they do on their own. 348 00:15:12,137 --> 00:15:15,817 Then that signature systems job is to get those outcomes. 349 00:15:16,007 --> 00:15:20,114 So efficiency and delivery comes when you're working according to that. 350 00:15:20,194 --> 00:15:21,684 It's not trial and error anymore. 351 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:22,950 also, I feel like. 352 00:15:23,140 --> 00:15:25,491 consultants feel like they can't promise outcomes because 353 00:15:25,491 --> 00:15:26,351 they're like, I don't know. 354 00:15:26,351 --> 00:15:29,875 I mean, it Once you have a signature system, you can make bigger promises 355 00:15:29,915 --> 00:15:32,275 because, you know, that this is the way to get those results. 356 00:15:32,986 --> 00:15:37,911 Erin Austin: Yeah, and as consumers of services as well, like, we want to know, 357 00:15:37,921 --> 00:15:40,091 okay, what am I going to get for this? 358 00:15:40,231 --> 00:15:45,211 Like, I don't want, my website, which is, frankly, Has a ton of content on 359 00:15:45,211 --> 00:15:49,124 it, just because I write all the time and, but none of it is, there's no SEO. 360 00:15:49,125 --> 00:15:51,338 There's no tech, all this stuff, that you're supposed to do. 361 00:15:51,348 --> 00:15:52,568 I don't have any of that stuff. 362 00:15:52,746 --> 00:15:57,228 And so I was talking to someone and he had a proposal for going 363 00:15:57,238 --> 00:15:59,448 through and categorizing and. 364 00:15:59,495 --> 00:16:03,065 Inventory and tagging and I'm like, okay, well, what am I going to get from that? 365 00:16:03,075 --> 00:16:07,641 Like, well, I can't promise, you I have a pretty long sales cycle, you 366 00:16:07,641 --> 00:16:11,685 know, between people coming and hanging out, it just feels like a deliverable 367 00:16:11,685 --> 00:16:14,290 to me and not like a solution. 368 00:16:14,330 --> 00:16:17,918 So yeah, as consumers, we want to on, what we're paying for as well. 369 00:16:17,948 --> 00:16:18,668 So yeah. 370 00:16:18,871 --> 00:16:23,546 Samantha Hartley: in our work, I think SEO and PR are similar to what you're 371 00:16:23,546 --> 00:16:26,844 talking about in that they're like, I we cannot guarantee results in this 372 00:16:26,864 --> 00:16:28,204 cause like whatever happens happens. 373 00:16:28,554 --> 00:16:31,654 Now I can't also cannot guarantee results to my clients because 374 00:16:31,654 --> 00:16:32,954 they have to take action and like. 375 00:16:33,162 --> 00:16:34,502 there are joint accountabilities. 376 00:16:34,562 --> 00:16:37,889 So this to me is part of a mature working relationship is that I say, here's 377 00:16:37,889 --> 00:16:39,459 what I'm going to be responsible for. 378 00:16:39,579 --> 00:16:41,502 This is what you're going to be responsible for. 379 00:16:41,502 --> 00:16:42,902 And we both do our parts. 380 00:16:43,216 --> 00:16:46,252 The likeliest thing, like the biggest promise that can make to you is 381 00:16:46,369 --> 00:16:49,205 you're probably going to experience results like my clients have. 382 00:16:49,365 --> 00:16:52,605 and somewhere along the way, if we're not trending towards that, one of us 383 00:16:52,605 --> 00:16:54,645 will know and we'll course correct. 384 00:16:54,815 --> 00:16:58,247 But you can make big promises in those situations. 385 00:16:58,257 --> 00:17:01,570 So what your SEO person can say is what we found is when we've done 386 00:17:01,570 --> 00:17:04,790 this for people's websites in the past, here's what usually happens. 387 00:17:04,950 --> 00:17:06,994 That's what I would look for as a kind of comforting thing. 388 00:17:06,994 --> 00:17:10,764 Because again, as a business owner, I know, I know can promise me results 389 00:17:10,764 --> 00:17:12,004 and who can't promise me results. 390 00:17:12,207 --> 00:17:13,847 but in that situation, I think. 391 00:17:14,050 --> 00:17:16,734 You still want to hear, like, what's the closest thing, what's the biggest 392 00:17:16,754 --> 00:17:19,044 promise you can make to me in integrity? 393 00:17:19,774 --> 00:17:20,134 Right, 394 00:17:20,214 --> 00:17:20,534 Erin Austin: right. 395 00:17:20,757 --> 00:17:25,887 I am still thinking about that one, but we'll see what happens with that. 396 00:17:26,032 --> 00:17:29,947 So, you, recently, well, I saw it on LinkedIn, but I think you did 397 00:17:29,947 --> 00:17:34,064 a, podcast episode about it as well about partnerships and I've been 398 00:17:34,064 --> 00:17:35,784 talking a lot about collaboration. 399 00:17:35,784 --> 00:17:39,153 So very similar, obviously, from an intellectual property point of 400 00:17:39,153 --> 00:17:40,343 view and a legal point of view. 401 00:17:40,383 --> 00:17:45,220 I have my caution sign, you when we're thinking about going into 402 00:17:45,220 --> 00:17:49,326 collaborations and partnerships from a business perspective. 403 00:17:49,336 --> 00:17:50,416 What are you seeing as. 404 00:17:51,373 --> 00:17:54,483 Best practices, things to be worried about and what's the best 405 00:17:54,483 --> 00:17:55,783 we can hope from our partnership. 406 00:17:56,406 --> 00:17:59,236 Samantha Hartley: well, I took a super dim view in the first episode 407 00:17:59,276 --> 00:18:03,863 about them because nine times out of 10 in my personal experience with 408 00:18:03,923 --> 00:18:07,616 clients and I've been in business for over 20 years, they almost always. 409 00:18:07,823 --> 00:18:12,130 fail and fail extremely, like really badly, like people in court, people 410 00:18:12,130 --> 00:18:15,680 trying to figure out how do we divide this business loan that we took out 411 00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:18,046 together between ourselves individually. 412 00:18:18,239 --> 00:18:22,366 someone, a partner decides to just stop working in the business, but we still 413 00:18:22,366 --> 00:18:25,476 receive full salary because apparently that piece didn't get worked out. 414 00:18:25,646 --> 00:18:30,369 women in just rev share partnerships will go into business with men 415 00:18:30,379 --> 00:18:32,142 and give away their power to them. 416 00:18:32,199 --> 00:18:34,485 and I say this because an advocate for women. 417 00:18:34,485 --> 00:18:39,078 And so who I was really, wanting to caution were women, because I think in 418 00:18:39,078 --> 00:18:44,071 a lot of cases I have noticed is I don't understand how all these big, powerful 419 00:18:44,213 --> 00:18:50,925 women get into, Working relationships with men and then become small in that 420 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,338 situation and again, have seen it. 421 00:18:53,348 --> 00:18:58,878 And so I'm very much cautioning everyone in general against, any situation 422 00:18:58,878 --> 00:19:02,371 in which you feel like, well, I'm hoping that person will do sales. 423 00:19:02,371 --> 00:19:06,161 I'm hoping that person will do, the parts of the business that I don't want to do. 424 00:19:06,325 --> 00:19:09,575 If you don't have that explicitly outlined, then you are inferred. 425 00:19:09,688 --> 00:19:10,853 Terrible surprise. 426 00:19:11,066 --> 00:19:14,870 they're going into committed relationships, working relationships 427 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,410 before they've done dating. 428 00:19:16,608 --> 00:19:17,543 This is what I would say. 429 00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:21,450 So like, why don't we partner on a few short term projects as revenue 430 00:19:21,450 --> 00:19:25,823 share partners before, why don't we collaborate before we, form a legally 431 00:19:25,823 --> 00:19:27,356 binding agreement with one another? 432 00:19:27,523 --> 00:19:31,410 and then one of the things that I urge them to do is think about 433 00:19:31,460 --> 00:19:33,860 all the things you don't want to have a conversation about. 434 00:19:33,860 --> 00:19:36,051 So, Aaron, what if I. 435 00:19:36,256 --> 00:19:37,215 Get sick of the whole thing. 436 00:19:37,215 --> 00:19:40,575 And I decide to go to Mexico for two years. 437 00:19:40,796 --> 00:19:41,814 will you do? 438 00:19:41,966 --> 00:19:44,497 What if you get sick of it and you decide what will I do? 439 00:19:44,657 --> 00:19:49,587 what if we do this and the business really fails and we only make 50, 000 440 00:19:49,617 --> 00:19:53,117 between us, then what are we going to like say all of the things that hope 441 00:19:53,137 --> 00:19:57,621 nobody says or asks or whatever, what if you're, cousin suddenly wants to 442 00:19:57,621 --> 00:19:59,271 get involved in the business and you. 443 00:19:59,451 --> 00:20:00,701 Decide that's a good idea. 444 00:20:00,734 --> 00:20:01,714 what if I don't want that? 445 00:20:01,714 --> 00:20:02,984 So how will we make decisions? 446 00:20:02,984 --> 00:20:04,494 How are we going to, choose clients? 447 00:20:04,645 --> 00:20:06,204 How are we going to divide up expenses? 448 00:20:06,234 --> 00:20:10,241 And what if I want to, pursue, an angle in the business that you don't choose to? 449 00:20:10,458 --> 00:20:13,940 All of that, I think doesn't get discussed enough before someone goes 450 00:20:13,980 --> 00:20:15,480 into business with another person. 451 00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:18,856 And so that's what I really cautioned against, this week, the episodes 452 00:20:18,876 --> 00:20:21,476 antidote came out where I interviewed, a. 453 00:20:21,601 --> 00:20:24,680 Couple of partners who happen to be, Martha's Vineyard based business. 454 00:20:24,750 --> 00:20:27,230 There were also the first two partners that I reached out to. 455 00:20:27,230 --> 00:20:29,480 So I was looking around and I was like, well, gosh, there's gotta be 456 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:30,930 somebody who has a good partnership. 457 00:20:31,086 --> 00:20:32,233 not in any of my clients. 458 00:20:32,270 --> 00:20:34,646 And so I saw them and I thought, Oh, are they partners? 459 00:20:34,850 --> 00:20:35,113 And. 460 00:20:35,326 --> 00:20:36,185 They were like, yes. 461 00:20:36,205 --> 00:20:38,475 And I thought, Oh, well, this'll be a great chance to kind of show 462 00:20:38,475 --> 00:20:39,788 like, Oh, the good and the bad. 463 00:20:39,788 --> 00:20:42,241 And like, with a real life example, and there'll be really great. 464 00:20:42,411 --> 00:20:43,845 They don't have any negatives. 465 00:20:44,001 --> 00:20:47,191 they're like the happiest couple you've ever seen in your entire life 466 00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:51,435 in terms of a business partnership, which is great because guess what 467 00:20:51,613 --> 00:20:53,915 healthy people make for happy partners. 468 00:20:53,915 --> 00:20:56,275 And you can hear the way they both have happy marriages. 469 00:20:56,521 --> 00:20:57,831 So what it says to me is. 470 00:20:58,077 --> 00:21:00,927 who are the healthiest people that you know that you work with? 471 00:21:00,937 --> 00:21:02,497 Like, you just don't get conflicts. 472 00:21:02,507 --> 00:21:03,787 They don't misunderstand you. 473 00:21:03,787 --> 00:21:06,317 They take responsibility, like self responsible. 474 00:21:06,490 --> 00:21:08,350 You trust them implicitly. 475 00:21:08,519 --> 00:21:10,900 You can have any hard conversation about anything. 476 00:21:11,082 --> 00:21:15,947 It just shows you the extent to which having a healthy everything 477 00:21:15,947 --> 00:21:19,054 is going to make this financially based relationship work. 478 00:21:19,289 --> 00:21:19,832 Yeah, you know, it 479 00:21:19,862 --> 00:21:23,315 Erin Austin: sounds like, kind of the 1 plus 1 equals 3 kind of, are 480 00:21:23,315 --> 00:21:26,059 you coming to it as a whole person? 481 00:21:26,229 --> 00:21:28,719 I guess it's kind of in a relationship thing and not as someone who 482 00:21:28,719 --> 00:21:30,039 wants someone to complete them. 483 00:21:30,039 --> 00:21:35,762 Like, I have these deficiencies and I am coming to help you fill in my deficiencies 484 00:21:35,979 --> 00:21:40,427 versus I have this strength and you have this strength and together Boom. 485 00:21:40,557 --> 00:21:41,047 Right. 486 00:21:41,219 --> 00:21:46,704 And so the same applies there, thinking about tech startups, if I'm wanting and 487 00:21:46,864 --> 00:21:50,254 the kind of the common understanding is that, you kind of need, like, that 488 00:21:50,439 --> 00:21:52,237 finance guy and you, the tech guy. 489 00:21:52,372 --> 00:21:52,760 Right? 490 00:21:52,989 --> 00:21:58,554 And so they have, complimentary skills and I'm wondering with an 491 00:21:58,554 --> 00:22:02,187 expertise based business, what are the complimentary skills? 492 00:22:02,297 --> 00:22:03,920 Is it another. 493 00:22:04,110 --> 00:22:04,782 Expert. 494 00:22:04,782 --> 00:22:08,687 Is it someone who's like the operations person versus the, delivery? 495 00:22:08,767 --> 00:22:11,400 Like, how do the best partnerships work in that space? 496 00:22:11,724 --> 00:22:13,667 Samantha Hartley: Having again, having seen so few of them that 497 00:22:13,667 --> 00:22:16,347 are working successfully, I have another example that I can draw on. 498 00:22:16,377 --> 00:22:19,467 And in that case, there were 3 partners and. 499 00:22:19,610 --> 00:22:23,057 2 of them were rainmakers and 1 of them wasn't, but the 1 that wasn't 500 00:22:23,057 --> 00:22:25,357 was such a deep expert in the work. 501 00:22:25,595 --> 00:22:29,929 for more of an academic sense that she would do a lot of the, IP 502 00:22:29,929 --> 00:22:32,545 creation, content, things like that. 503 00:22:32,885 --> 00:22:37,242 So she was really able to kind of like drill down into the meat of the 504 00:22:37,242 --> 00:22:38,672 work that they would give to clients. 505 00:22:38,912 --> 00:22:41,542 the other two also were very strong in that area, but she 506 00:22:41,542 --> 00:22:42,682 was, significantly stronger. 507 00:22:42,692 --> 00:22:44,232 And then the two other partners. 508 00:22:44,395 --> 00:22:47,929 were equally good at rainmaking also had those big, kind of 509 00:22:47,929 --> 00:22:49,729 client facing personalities. 510 00:22:49,952 --> 00:22:53,002 So one wanted to travel and present this one didn't want to travel so 511 00:22:53,002 --> 00:22:55,632 much, but she was really great in client relationship, management. 512 00:22:56,019 --> 00:22:59,025 So it's kind of the thing that you're saying, where it's a lot of whole. 513 00:22:59,102 --> 00:23:01,804 Partners, whole individuals, like any single one of them 514 00:23:01,814 --> 00:23:02,694 could have had a business. 515 00:23:02,704 --> 00:23:04,954 Although I think the one who was the deep subject matter expert 516 00:23:04,954 --> 00:23:07,844 probably would have belonged more in academia than in private business. 517 00:23:08,069 --> 00:23:11,747 But because she had the other two out in front, it really worked out for her. 518 00:23:11,747 --> 00:23:16,814 So, To me, the killer is when not everyone is rainmaking because then 519 00:23:16,844 --> 00:23:19,894 there starts to be resentments about like, well, I brought in all this 520 00:23:19,894 --> 00:23:21,474 business and how are we dividing this up? 521 00:23:21,484 --> 00:23:24,460 The partners that I profile, , this week on the podcast, they have 522 00:23:24,460 --> 00:23:27,180 a 50, 50 partnership and they just don't even dig into things. 523 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:28,990 they both are bringing in clients. 524 00:23:28,990 --> 00:23:32,758 They both are doing delivery and they're not kind of like nitpicking about, 525 00:23:32,758 --> 00:23:35,949 the money, which I think is as long as you're paying close attention to 526 00:23:35,949 --> 00:23:37,679 the money, you don't have to nitpick. 527 00:23:37,699 --> 00:23:40,959 I just want there to be kind of like transparency and, awareness of it. 528 00:23:41,164 --> 00:23:44,495 but in the case of those three partners, they felt good about the divisions of 529 00:23:44,495 --> 00:23:47,472 things, what's interesting is when I first went in and, worked with them, 530 00:23:47,608 --> 00:23:50,988 they had an employee, there was only one actual, I mean, they may have all 531 00:23:50,988 --> 00:23:54,382 been employees, but there was a full time employee on their team, one team 532 00:23:54,382 --> 00:23:56,528 member full time, always got paid. 533 00:23:56,685 --> 00:23:57,862 Guess who didn't always get paid? 534 00:23:58,562 --> 00:23:59,762 The partners, right? 535 00:23:59,932 --> 00:24:02,852 this is why I'm like, gosh, you have to watch out for this stuff. 536 00:24:02,988 --> 00:24:06,475 terms of like, women classically will want to make others whole 537 00:24:06,485 --> 00:24:07,915 before they make themselves whole. 538 00:24:07,915 --> 00:24:10,515 And here was a trio doing it, that kind of thing. 539 00:24:10,515 --> 00:24:15,088 So, it won't be surprising to hear that I, recommended and they did do, 540 00:24:15,118 --> 00:24:18,745 they did let him go because, that just was not the right thing for them. 541 00:24:18,941 --> 00:24:22,941 in general, I think successful partnerships have trust, they 542 00:24:22,941 --> 00:24:25,451 have complimentary skill sets that are, as you're saying, 1 543 00:24:25,461 --> 00:24:30,514 plus 1 equals 3, not 3, 4, 3, and, everyone is dedicated to sales and 544 00:24:31,584 --> 00:24:33,171 Erin Austin: and they enter a partnership agreement. 545 00:24:35,121 --> 00:24:38,653 I'm not going to get it because I'm, I'm not a, corporate structure person, but I 546 00:24:38,653 --> 00:24:43,859 will say just generally with the general partnership that each partner can bind. 547 00:24:44,038 --> 00:24:46,986 The partnership unilaterally, unless you have something, 548 00:24:46,996 --> 00:24:48,153 in writing to the contract. 549 00:24:48,153 --> 00:24:52,489 So you want to make sure that you have all that stuff, figured out 550 00:24:52,529 --> 00:24:52,959 Samantha Hartley: and. 551 00:24:53,169 --> 00:24:53,839 Absolutely. 552 00:24:53,859 --> 00:24:58,013 You want to have a key person insurance in case something happens to your You want 553 00:24:58,013 --> 00:25:01,023 to have a buy sell agreement so that if something happens to them, you're not in. 554 00:25:01,159 --> 00:25:02,499 One of the things I mentioned is you don't want to be in, 555 00:25:02,643 --> 00:25:04,183 find out that you're suddenly. 556 00:25:04,364 --> 00:25:06,761 Your business partner is your, dead partner's son. 557 00:25:06,961 --> 00:25:08,011 That is exactly right. 558 00:25:08,061 --> 00:25:10,111 Which can happen if you don't have these things spelled out. 559 00:25:10,224 --> 00:25:10,908 Exactly. 560 00:25:10,928 --> 00:25:14,261 You all of the stuff that you don't, people don't think about until it happens. 561 00:25:14,261 --> 00:25:15,348 And then you're like, Ruh 562 00:25:15,765 --> 00:25:19,866 Erin Austin: I have a law school, friend who like her, literally her 563 00:25:19,866 --> 00:25:22,776 entire practice was breaking up partnerships that went sideways. 564 00:25:23,176 --> 00:25:23,525 Like, 565 00:25:23,525 --> 00:25:26,514 Samantha Hartley: it 566 00:25:26,515 --> 00:25:29,424 Erin Austin: is a cottage industry, like trying to unravel, 567 00:25:30,244 --> 00:25:31,074 partnerships that go sideways. 568 00:25:31,144 --> 00:25:33,044 It really is, can be quite a mess. 569 00:25:33,144 --> 00:25:33,614 It really can. 570 00:25:33,878 --> 00:25:34,168 All right. 571 00:25:34,198 --> 00:25:38,178 So, well, that brings us to, you mentioned, having one partner 572 00:25:38,178 --> 00:25:41,284 who digs into the IP more and someone else who does other things. 573 00:25:41,294 --> 00:25:45,759 So talking about intellectual property, I've been currently, uh, Starting 574 00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:49,629 to track ways that business coaches talk about intellectual property 575 00:25:49,629 --> 00:25:51,129 without saying intellectual property, 576 00:25:52,069 --> 00:25:57,036 And so like, now they, use, you know, kind of scaling and a scalable offer. 577 00:25:57,041 --> 00:25:59,766 Or they have different ways that they talk about, I should have my list here. 578 00:25:59,946 --> 00:26:02,113 And so I'm gonna, at some point I'm gonna write about that. 579 00:26:02,309 --> 00:26:06,856 but at the end of the day, if we are going to decouple our income from our 580 00:26:06,856 --> 00:26:10,679 time, we have to be selling something other than our time, which has to 581 00:26:10,679 --> 00:26:12,169 be an asset of course, of course. 582 00:26:12,169 --> 00:26:14,756 And when we're experts that asset is intellectual property. 583 00:26:14,949 --> 00:26:17,929 So when you are working with your clients, like how are you talking 584 00:26:17,929 --> 00:26:19,169 to them about intellectual property? 585 00:26:19,169 --> 00:26:21,189 What kind of questions are they asking you about? 586 00:26:21,498 --> 00:26:23,329 Samantha Hartley: I will usually talk about having a signature 587 00:26:23,329 --> 00:26:26,389 system or a proprietary approach to the work that they do. 588 00:26:26,588 --> 00:26:27,693 And I'm doing that. 589 00:26:27,903 --> 00:26:31,618 Less from point of view that you are, although, it is important to 590 00:26:31,618 --> 00:26:35,932 me that they have, IP and that they have, something that, is an asset 591 00:26:35,999 --> 00:26:39,639 that is separate from themselves and can do some of the work for them. 592 00:26:39,838 --> 00:26:43,299 I will use it in terms of standardizing their work so that 593 00:26:43,299 --> 00:26:44,773 they get, consistent results. 594 00:26:45,116 --> 00:26:46,196 That's part one. 595 00:26:46,343 --> 00:26:49,343 The second thing that I want is for them to bring in subcontractors so 596 00:26:49,343 --> 00:26:51,963 that they don't have to work as hard because the subcontractor doesn't 597 00:26:51,963 --> 00:26:54,103 need to, bring their own ideas and IP. 598 00:26:54,263 --> 00:26:57,683 They can merely the IP that my clients have. 599 00:26:57,879 --> 00:26:59,073 I can teach you to do it. 600 00:26:59,083 --> 00:27:03,836 the Acme Inc way or the Jane Smith consulting way that is. 601 00:27:03,891 --> 00:27:06,444 our proprietary approach to working with the clients. 602 00:27:06,584 --> 00:27:08,424 So my subcontractors can come in and do that. 603 00:27:08,444 --> 00:27:11,468 And then I think a really good thing here too, is that you can, give this 604 00:27:11,528 --> 00:27:17,521 to the client and they then can also implement, according to your IP. 605 00:27:17,714 --> 00:27:21,068 You can turn that into e learning or e courses or whatever, which means that 606 00:27:21,078 --> 00:27:25,141 your work is accessible by clients who might not otherwise be able to afford you. 607 00:27:25,338 --> 00:27:26,734 It can scale where you cannot. 608 00:27:26,754 --> 00:27:27,054 So there's. 609 00:27:27,214 --> 00:27:29,652 I'm sure, I'm just repeating things that you're saying all the time. 610 00:27:29,719 --> 00:27:32,999 But those are the things that I'm teaching my clients to do with IP. 611 00:27:33,147 --> 00:27:36,223 And specifically, they're very often with me at the stage where 612 00:27:36,242 --> 00:27:37,533 they have to kind of like extract. 613 00:27:37,543 --> 00:27:40,935 I always do this, motion as if they're like pulling the skeleton out of the body. 614 00:27:41,135 --> 00:27:45,675 Here's the structure, which I feel like I intuitively show up and do, but then I 615 00:27:45,675 --> 00:27:47,555 realized in a little while, Oh, hang on. 616 00:27:47,717 --> 00:27:52,783 I do have like a seven step system or my, five, part, whatever that piece 617 00:27:52,803 --> 00:27:55,873 is critical to them, experiencing leverage in their business. 618 00:27:55,923 --> 00:27:59,697 So, signature systems are under, in my world, that's under the, heading of 619 00:27:59,697 --> 00:28:04,980 leverage, like ways that we make more of our time and, pulling that IP out working 620 00:28:04,980 --> 00:28:06,510 with it independently is one of them. 621 00:28:06,725 --> 00:28:10,795 Now, my favorite example of clients who did this were these, consultants 622 00:28:10,795 --> 00:28:14,695 who just believed so strongly that their clients wanted to co create, 623 00:28:14,705 --> 00:28:17,398 they co created the workshops or the. 624 00:28:17,652 --> 00:28:20,092 If they were going to come in and work with a client for six months on 625 00:28:20,092 --> 00:28:23,642 something, they would co create that approach of what they were going to do. 626 00:28:23,848 --> 00:28:26,742 And at point I said to them, why are you co creating this with the clients? 627 00:28:26,742 --> 00:28:29,372 Like, they don't know anything about how to achieve, let's say it was culture. 628 00:28:29,522 --> 00:28:31,868 They don't anything about how to achieve culture change. 629 00:28:31,868 --> 00:28:33,188 Like, why are you co creating this with them? 630 00:28:33,355 --> 00:28:34,418 Now they really like to do it. 631 00:28:34,418 --> 00:28:35,508 I was like, do they really? 632 00:28:35,675 --> 00:28:38,052 And they were like, yeah, we feel like, oh, well, maybe not. 633 00:28:38,178 --> 00:28:40,833 And do you believe that there's like a, right way to do this? 634 00:28:40,833 --> 00:28:42,153 And they said, Oh, yes, definitely. 635 00:28:42,365 --> 00:28:45,810 I was like, well, then why did you let the clients get in here and muddy that up? 636 00:28:45,992 --> 00:28:50,592 It turned out it was because they were billing by the hour and they 637 00:28:50,592 --> 00:28:54,748 wanted to, pack in the hours that they worked on the IP, because if 638 00:28:54,748 --> 00:28:58,078 they didn't have all of that time that they spent co creating their approach, 639 00:28:58,263 --> 00:28:59,832 then they weren't charging enough. 640 00:28:59,987 --> 00:29:04,185 And I said, here's the deal is if you're charging 138, 000 for this. 641 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:05,787 That's what it's worth. 642 00:29:05,937 --> 00:29:07,880 The client doesn't want to do all that nonsense and you don't 643 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:08,760 want to recreate your thing. 644 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,724 Just charge 138, 000 for the engagement. 645 00:29:12,007 --> 00:29:13,820 And they were like, mind blown. 646 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,977 and it's just not obvious people that like, they're saying it's this valuable. 647 00:29:19,007 --> 00:29:22,893 So that is, I think the way that you can get to IP that is 648 00:29:22,953 --> 00:29:24,683 separate from your own value. 649 00:29:24,915 --> 00:29:27,952 And one of first things that I'll do with my clients to help them double 650 00:29:27,952 --> 00:29:31,815 their is to say, if you come in and you're like, well, it's a, whatever long 651 00:29:31,815 --> 00:29:38,044 engagement, and it's usually, 50, charged separately for the IP and my signature 652 00:29:38,044 --> 00:29:42,883 program, the Jane Smith approach to getting whatever benefit is 25, 000. 653 00:29:43,108 --> 00:29:43,938 And so that's. 654 00:29:44,083 --> 00:29:48,498 000 engagement so that we as consultants learn to charge for the 655 00:29:48,508 --> 00:29:53,371 IP and clients learn to go like, Oh, the system itself has inherent value. 656 00:29:54,121 --> 00:29:54,511 I love 657 00:29:54,511 --> 00:29:54,781 Erin Austin: that. 658 00:29:54,988 --> 00:29:59,621 I'll say the last time I billed hourly, I wish I could say this was, I'm just 659 00:29:59,621 --> 00:30:04,783 going to say that it was, cause there was another time, but the time I said, 660 00:30:05,239 --> 00:30:09,093 It was, when someone came to me and it was, you know, I have done a lot 661 00:30:09,093 --> 00:30:13,089 of work in market research and so they've been using other lawyers and 662 00:30:13,089 --> 00:30:16,446 they always had to explain everything, blah, blah, blah, and they come to 663 00:30:16,446 --> 00:30:18,589 me and I like just knew the answer. 664 00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:20,299 Just did it done. 665 00:30:20,886 --> 00:30:23,213 Took me a couple hours, like, oh, that's great. 666 00:30:23,379 --> 00:30:24,136 And I was really I'm like. 667 00:30:24,389 --> 00:30:25,004 Wait a minute. 668 00:30:26,054 --> 00:30:30,568 I just saw their entire problem for two hours worth of billables 669 00:30:30,608 --> 00:30:34,048 because I knew the answer already, I'm like, okay, I know, 670 00:30:34,228 --> 00:30:36,138 Samantha Hartley: didn't make you so cranky. 671 00:30:36,738 --> 00:30:40,121 You are penalized for efficiency and expertise. 672 00:30:40,311 --> 00:30:44,811 Yes, yeah, that was the tax on being brilliant and fast. 673 00:30:45,181 --> 00:30:45,721 Erin Austin: It was. 674 00:30:45,751 --> 00:30:46,371 There's so many times. 675 00:30:46,871 --> 00:30:48,651 So, well, thank you for sharing that. 676 00:30:48,721 --> 00:30:52,141 So, as you know, this is a very meta broad podcast. 677 00:30:52,224 --> 00:30:56,391 I'm a female founder of an expertise based business that I am hoping to have 678 00:30:56,451 --> 00:30:59,003 some saleable assets at the end of it. 679 00:30:59,160 --> 00:30:59,869 How about you? 680 00:30:59,879 --> 00:31:02,019 You're a female founder of an expertise based business. 681 00:31:02,019 --> 00:31:02,959 What is the plan for 682 00:31:02,959 --> 00:31:03,429 Samantha Hartley: your business? 683 00:31:03,869 --> 00:31:06,479 So like an exit strategy and creating assets. 684 00:31:06,539 --> 00:31:09,429 I mean, I love the idea of creating assets in my business. 685 00:31:09,429 --> 00:31:13,476 I do have, I'm a teacher by personality and archetype. 686 00:31:13,486 --> 00:31:16,639 And so I just create numerous programs. 687 00:31:16,639 --> 00:31:18,763 I have a year long program about how to do things, one of 688 00:31:18,763 --> 00:31:19,833 which is a signature system. 689 00:31:19,843 --> 00:31:22,553 So I do have a signature system about how to create signature systems. 690 00:31:22,553 --> 00:31:27,261 Like that's speaking of So, I just think in those terms and any of those could 691 00:31:27,271 --> 00:31:32,411 easily stand alone as a program, and it's possible that in someday in the near 692 00:31:32,601 --> 00:31:38,728 future, they will and I'll either market or sell those individually and right now. 693 00:31:38,946 --> 00:31:39,816 I haven't done that yet. 694 00:31:39,826 --> 00:31:43,056 So I don't know if those want to be books or what those want to be, or if the whole 695 00:31:43,166 --> 00:31:47,440 business wants to be sold, but I feel like I'm such a place of enjoying where 696 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,670 I am in the business and that I love it. 697 00:31:49,670 --> 00:31:51,321 And I really like a high intimacy business. 698 00:31:51,393 --> 00:31:52,663 So I have private clients. 699 00:31:52,903 --> 00:31:54,596 and then I have group coaching clients and. 700 00:31:55,036 --> 00:31:58,963 It's just really so fulfilling that it's not that I don't think about that kind of 701 00:31:59,053 --> 00:32:03,706 time horizon and sometime in the future, but it's not an urgent thing for me yet. 702 00:32:04,136 --> 00:32:04,376 All 703 00:32:04,516 --> 00:32:07,116 Erin Austin: the good news is that when we are doing things that create 704 00:32:07,366 --> 00:32:09,686 a scalable business, we're also doing those things that create a saleable 705 00:32:10,136 --> 00:32:14,476 business because that is creating that independence from the owner. 706 00:32:14,675 --> 00:32:16,615 and, not relying on time. 707 00:32:16,655 --> 00:32:18,075 So that's fantastic. 708 00:32:18,246 --> 00:32:19,640 So, yeah. 709 00:32:20,168 --> 00:32:23,518 So as we wrap up, as you know, I believe that wealth in the hands of 710 00:32:23,518 --> 00:32:28,298 women can change the world and working on creating a more equitable economy. 711 00:32:28,528 --> 00:32:32,145 So I'd love to share with the audience organizations that are 712 00:32:32,145 --> 00:32:34,120 doing great work in that space. 713 00:32:34,308 --> 00:32:35,871 And is there someone that you'd like to share? 714 00:32:36,083 --> 00:32:37,695 Samantha Hartley: my go to on this is Kiva. 715 00:32:37,715 --> 00:32:42,275 I remember the first time I heard about microloans and I just thought it was 716 00:32:42,275 --> 00:32:46,258 the best idea because I think, when we're doing all these massive country 717 00:32:46,258 --> 00:32:50,161 loans to somewhere and I was like, well, who's doing something like right here. 718 00:32:50,365 --> 00:32:54,598 and so I have supported Kiva for, I mean, probably as long as they've been 719 00:32:54,608 --> 00:32:55,878 around, as long as I've heard of them. 720 00:32:56,078 --> 00:32:58,708 And, I'm always choosing a woman owned business. 721 00:32:59,023 --> 00:33:02,916 Who's, I usually have like an equal amount of ones that are like North 722 00:33:02,964 --> 00:33:06,786 America based and then ones that are in exotic countries doing things because 723 00:33:06,836 --> 00:33:10,236 I, so completely agree with you and what I can tell you is in my international 724 00:33:10,236 --> 00:33:14,206 travels and having lived overseas that when women are thriving, everybody's 725 00:33:14,206 --> 00:33:19,260 thriving and it's very often the women who are the backbone of the economy 726 00:33:19,260 --> 00:33:22,913 and when I've lived in places where I've Oh my gosh, it didn't seem like 727 00:33:22,913 --> 00:33:24,493 this country had its act together. 728 00:33:24,668 --> 00:33:28,566 There were women who were like, getting up, making things happen, before everybody 729 00:33:28,566 --> 00:33:30,156 got up and after everybody went to bed. 730 00:33:30,166 --> 00:33:34,300 And if she just had a little bit of money to invest, then she could 731 00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:35,790 make wonderful things happen. 732 00:33:35,820 --> 00:33:39,933 And, for other users of Kiva, you know that Occasionally someone 733 00:33:39,933 --> 00:33:44,826 will default on a but it's like so almost never that I feel like 734 00:33:44,826 --> 00:33:46,516 their stats are really incredible. 735 00:33:46,516 --> 00:33:48,721 And , it's just a great investment to me. 736 00:33:48,963 --> 00:33:51,763 Erin Austin: I think people underestimate the power of even 737 00:33:51,923 --> 00:33:54,396 small loans, small investments. 738 00:33:54,456 --> 00:33:57,430 It's not, doesn't have to be a million bucks, and it can go very far. 739 00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:59,330 I mean, I'm just thinking about closer to home. 740 00:33:59,508 --> 00:34:01,980 This is not a key book type of thing, but, when. 741 00:34:02,206 --> 00:34:03,916 I think there was a city. 742 00:34:03,916 --> 00:34:04,966 Was it Houston? 743 00:34:04,976 --> 00:34:09,580 Maybe that was giving a thousand dollars a month to people and the big 744 00:34:09,590 --> 00:34:11,480 difference that it made in their lives. 745 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:12,606 Just it's, you know, that's 746 00:34:12,606 --> 00:34:13,146 Samantha Hartley: UBI. 747 00:34:13,348 --> 00:34:13,596 Yeah. 748 00:34:13,881 --> 00:34:14,226 Yeah. 749 00:34:14,316 --> 00:34:14,516 Yeah. 750 00:34:14,566 --> 00:34:17,488 That's universal basic income and they're doing experiments all over 751 00:34:17,488 --> 00:34:19,048 the world with universal basic income. 752 00:34:19,068 --> 00:34:20,008 And I am a. 753 00:34:20,243 --> 00:34:23,612 Personally, just a huge proponent of it because as you're hearing, like, I 754 00:34:23,612 --> 00:34:27,608 think the that we feel like is, the first barrier to it is, well, nobody's giving 755 00:34:27,608 --> 00:34:30,398 me and nobody gave me, and I feel like, okay, but we're trying to do better. 756 00:34:30,398 --> 00:34:33,225 Now, the other argument that we hear is like, well, they'll probably 757 00:34:33,225 --> 00:34:37,608 just spend it on, and I'm like, what they're spending it on their bills. 758 00:34:37,792 --> 00:34:40,578 And when we look at what people actually spend it on, it's just like 759 00:34:40,578 --> 00:34:43,918 I was saying, but the default rate, the people who abuse that program are. 760 00:34:44,072 --> 00:34:47,913 Almost none ever, even though we might imagine that they would and 761 00:34:47,923 --> 00:34:52,770 it, just funny things happen like suddenly all of the basic conditions 762 00:34:52,810 --> 00:34:56,683 and quality of life increase and it's for such small amounts of money. 763 00:34:56,683 --> 00:35:01,003 So the experiments I've seen have been like 500 a month or up to 2, 000 a month 764 00:35:01,003 --> 00:35:04,928 and it's like you can lift people out of poverty for such a small amount of money. 765 00:35:04,928 --> 00:35:05,848 And I feel like. 766 00:35:06,034 --> 00:35:06,933 If we can, why not? 767 00:35:07,083 --> 00:35:08,023 Yes, exactly. 768 00:35:08,153 --> 00:35:08,633 Erin Austin: Exactly. 769 00:35:08,848 --> 00:35:11,716 And we will put the, link, to keep it in the, show notes. 770 00:35:12,068 --> 00:35:15,633 And so while we wrap up, I know you have a fantastic offer. 771 00:35:15,823 --> 00:35:16,833 can you tell us about it? 772 00:35:17,088 --> 00:35:18,529 Samantha Hartley: I have a document I put together. 773 00:35:18,529 --> 00:35:22,219 It's called, the definitive guide to winning six figure clients. 774 00:35:22,229 --> 00:35:22,949 And I put it together. 775 00:35:22,949 --> 00:35:24,139 Cause a lot of people are like, what? 776 00:35:24,159 --> 00:35:24,809 Six figures. 777 00:35:24,809 --> 00:35:25,369 That's crazy. 778 00:35:25,369 --> 00:35:26,206 I want to, I mean, I'm. 779 00:35:26,216 --> 00:35:26,236 Yeah. 780 00:35:26,466 --> 00:35:28,969 Only doing a few hundred six figure business in my business. 781 00:35:28,969 --> 00:35:30,483 Like, how could I have that in a single client? 782 00:35:30,493 --> 00:35:33,133 And I'm like, I have a lot of clients who have figure clients. 783 00:35:33,389 --> 00:35:38,193 So, this is basically a case study of some of my individual clients. 784 00:35:38,203 --> 00:35:40,666 So you see a lot of different kinds of businesses where they're doing it. 785 00:35:40,666 --> 00:35:41,216 And then it's. 786 00:35:41,336 --> 00:35:45,038 Actually, just a how to step by step guide of how to make these 787 00:35:45,058 --> 00:35:50,511 transformational offers that are, based on having, a specific outcome, charging 788 00:35:50,511 --> 00:35:52,091 a specific amount of money for that. 789 00:35:52,217 --> 00:35:56,848 And so that you as the individual consultant, you have money coming in 790 00:35:56,858 --> 00:36:00,881 on the books for months in advance, as far as you can see into the future. 791 00:36:01,087 --> 00:36:01,744 That sounds fan. 792 00:36:01,814 --> 00:36:05,281 Oh, and you can get it at, yeah, you can get it at six figure com. 793 00:36:05,281 --> 00:36:07,601 So it's six, the numeral six figure clients. 794 00:36:07,771 --> 00:36:08,021 com. 795 00:36:08,218 --> 00:36:08,874 Erin Austin: Fantastic. 796 00:36:08,874 --> 00:36:10,804 And then where can they find you generally 797 00:36:11,138 --> 00:36:12,598 Samantha Hartley: by me at Samantha Hartley. 798 00:36:12,638 --> 00:36:15,784 com and, I'm Samantha Hartley on most of the socials. 799 00:36:16,486 --> 00:36:17,656 Facebook, Instagram, 800 00:36:17,878 --> 00:36:19,989 Erin Austin: your Facebook person to, what are you doing on Facebook? 801 00:36:22,789 --> 00:36:25,579 Samantha Hartley: So legacy on Facebook, you know, I wouldn't be 802 00:36:25,579 --> 00:36:27,089 on Facebook if I wasn't for work. 803 00:36:30,248 --> 00:36:31,163 Erin Austin: Well, thank you so much. 804 00:36:31,163 --> 00:36:33,053 We will have links to all of that in the show notes. 805 00:36:33,083 --> 00:36:35,173 It has been fantastic to have you here. 806 00:36:35,233 --> 00:36:38,883 Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us and I hope we can do it again. 807 00:36:39,471 --> 00:36:40,178 Samantha Hartley: Thank you, Erin. 808 00:36:40,178 --> 00:36:43,708 I have learned so much from you over the several months, so it's been great 809 00:36:43,708 --> 00:36:46,788 knowing you and I love being able to be here with you and your listeners. 810 00:36:47,028 --> 00:36:47,398 Erin Austin: Awesome. 811 00:36:47,458 --> 00:36:47,778 Thank you.