Hi.

Today in the podcast we are going to talk about how can we experience God in a deeper way in our lives.

I have a guest interview today to share with you with a spiritual director who's going to share with us simple ways that we can do just this.

We're also going to talk about how can we see God move in our lives more and how can we see more of the joy that's all around us from the joy that God is bringing into the world and into our lives?

It's a great episode.

I think it's going to fill you up and I can't wait to share it.

Hey friend, are you craving deeper faith, renewed purpose and more joy in your everyday life?

Welcome to Faith Healed Woman podcast that helps Christian women grow spiritually pursue God's calling and embrace the abundant life he has for you?

I'm Kristen, an encourager, mentor, entrepreneur, wife and mom, here to uplift, equip and inspire you with faith filled conversations and biblical wisdom.

Subscribe now so you never miss an episode and join our faith fueled community for more encouragement.

Hi.

Today on the podcast I would like to welcome our guest, Robin Kensell.

She's, she is a spiritual director and she works with groups and individuals in her spiritual ministry in Sacred Space.

She's also crowned Miss Connecticut Senior America 2025.

And she's a founding real estate broker in Greenwich, Connecticut for Compass.

She's also one of the top one and a half percent agents in the US and she's a six time pro am Ballroom Dance champion.

So I'm excited to have this conversation with Robin today because we're going to step into faith, what spiritual direction can do for us.

We're going to talk about how can we deepen our faith and we're going to talk about how do we tap into more joy and just deepen our life in meaningful and rich ways.

So I'm so excited for this conversation.

Robin, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

And I'm so excited to be here.

Thanks.

So could you just start off with telling us maybe a little bit about what life looks like and what you're up to now?

Yes.

So, you know, it's interesting.

I'm 67 years old.

I'll put that right out there.

And this is sort of a chapter change.

I've been going through a chapter change.

Life is making some shifts appropriately.

So I'm continuing my spiritual direction practice, which I just started four years, four and a half years ago.

So expanding that and deepening into that.

But I've also got some new Things going on.

You mentioned I was crowned Miss Senior America, which is on the Miss America plus platform, but it's women for over 60 and I'll be representing Connecticut in October.

I was supposed to go last year, but I broke my foot three weeks before the pageant in the National Dance Championships.

So it's been a season, an entire year of honestly, Kristen, injuries.

I had to rehab a broken foot and then I went into a bruised toe and then I had sciatica.

So life has been a little different.

I've had to explore who am I without the dancing for bits of time.

And I've had some fun discoveries like improv.

I wanted to try acting and I found a specializes in improv and it's opened up an entire new world to me.

That's amazing.

I love it.

Thank you for sharing that.

That's so great.

And you're right, all of us are going to have so many seasons right through our lives, whatever age we are.

And it really is a continuous reinvention.

But we're also going to have seasons of waiting, of preparation, seasons of new growth, seasons that sometimes growth doesn't seem like it's happening, but it is.

It's just slow.

And, you know, I love that during those seasons where you had to pause or slow down, you found other things that just lit you up that excited you and let you kind of stretch yourself in new ways.

So I think that's beautiful.

And I love that, you know, I'm.

Going to be honest, last year I also ended up being number one in my age category and style for Doll ballroom.

And that meant I spent a lot of time in dance.

And during the year, I did kind of turn to the Lord and say, am I spending too much time?

Is this one of those disordered attachments?

That's a language we would use in St. Ignatius's language.

And I'm trained as an Ignatian tradition spiritual director.

And there was that little nagging voice in the back of my head that you are spending a lot of time in dance.

And I did, you know, say, God, if this isn't a good thing, just sort of let me know.

So he was rather dramatic in breaking my.

In having my foot broken, but it was good because it also made me slow down.

So not only did I say, what do I want to do with this time that I haven't done, but it also got me back to my spiritual practices, which, you know how that goes.

Sometimes you've got good spiritual practices in place, and then little by little, the time gets slighter.

You know, I'm a daily mass goer.

That's one of my practices.

And you skip a day here or there and before you know it, it's sort of like that sailboat that's gone off chart by a degree here and there, and then all of a sudden you're in a brand new direction that you really didn't want to be in.

Right, Absolutely.

I think I did a short episode about that, about how pilots.

Right.

If they're even off course, I think it's by one degree.

But over several hours they're very off course.

Right.

And so it's to your point is, I think most people, you know, especially, you know, whether Christian out, but Christians, obviously, we're talking about, we've all gone through times where our faith journey ebbs and flows a little bit.

Right.

And like you said, though, if we're not careful, it can really, you can realize look back and say, you know, in the last month, have I been putting God first?

Right.

Have I been putting the things that I do in my faith before other things, you know, or at least keeping them as a priority.

So I think you're so right about that.

And it is important to regularly reflect on that and to revisit our patterns, I think, especially with our faith.

Yeah.

And I guess I want to add on to that that, you know, in this slight getting off course and then being forced to have some quiet time, that white space and that even physical slowing down and having the time to get back into the practices and just, you know, and just breathe and simmer in the Lord was really important.

And I don't know, honestly, if I had would have done that had I not had the broken foot.

Yeah.

I mean, there's so many examples, people you'll talk to, stories like that where someone had a job change or lost their job or had an injury.

Two summers ago, I had a head injury.

I fell off of a golf cart.

I mean, that was okay, but I did have a, like a scalp hematoma and I did fracture my skull.

But I mean, I didn't have to have surgery or anything.

But I had some really weird symptoms that happened a week later.

Like my hearing went crazy in my ear.

I couldn't smell.

Like it was just all these strange things.

But my point is, is I had to kind of slow it down that summer.

Right.

I had to say no to some stuff.

It wasn't like I had any crazy major like, you know, where I was, couldn't get out of bed or anything.

But I still knew that to Let my body heal.

I still did stuff, but I had to slow down, right?

I had to be in a season of pause and.

But it was the same thing.

Like I didn't want that to happen.

You know, no one wants an injury, right?

But it was also a big time for me of reflection.

You know, it was a time for me to grow, like you said in my faith.

Because one of the things I knew is some people don't make it when they fall and hit their head when a golf cart's moving, right?

And I did.

I still have purpose and reason to be here.

And I didn't take that for granted.

And so I, I think you're right.

Sometimes we don't want to pause.

We don't want to be in a season of waiting.

But usually there's so much for us to do in that season and a lot of times it is for us to, to go to God.

It's a time for us that he's preparing us for something else and maybe even something, even when it doesn't seem like it and it seems like maybe a disappointment sometimes.

And you know, I want to add something else there.

The other thing I learned is that in the slowing down I actually had more time to be more present to people.

Not like the things that are on my calendar, but you know, you're out in the world and someone is crossing the street and you have that extra moment because you haven't jam packed your schedule to offer a hand.

And it sounds like such a little thing, but I started making it a game that, where I would like stick $5 in my pocket because I was living in New York at the time.

And to say, okay, who can I touch that I wouldn't have touched.

And honestly I don't know if I would have done that had I just kept going at my rather fast jam packed pace.

Yeah, I agree with you.

It's funny.

I just recorded a mini solo episode this morning somewhat about that.

I was reading one of the devotionals this morning by Bob Goff and it was talking about kind of being present but, but the point was, is like how often are we standing in a line scrolling on our phones, ignoring the people around us?

And I know that's he's also talking about deepening relationships, which I'm sure we'll get into that later.

But you know, I gave the example that I've learned.

One I used to like, oh, I'm in a long line, it's not moving.

There's an issue.

I'm going to move lines.

But Every single time I did that, my line would take longer somehow, right?

So I've learned that is a time for me to be patient and just wait.

It's a time where someone will strike up a conversation with me, right?

Because we're sort of sitting there like, oh, you know, waiting.

But even the other day at the grocery, it was pouring rain.

I mean, it was like a dilute, a deluge.

And I didn't bring an umbrella because it wasn't raining when I went in.

And so when I went out, I looked at Radar, and it was.

It was not going to slow down anytime soon.

So I waited out under the awning for a few minutes.

So I'm just gonna have to go for it.

But, I mean, I had a lot of groceries, so it was going to take me a couple minutes to unload.

And there was a couple other people waiting as I was.

But a couple of them were, you know, older than me, women, and they were just kind of standing there waiting.

And.

But I saw Radar wasn't gonna.

Like I said, it wasn't gonna let up.

So when I got to my car, you know, I just had that little voice that said, go back.

You know?

So I grabbed my two umbrellas, and I said to both the women, like, here, I can give you one of my umbrellas and walk you to your car.

And they both kind of looked at me, were sizing me up, like, should I trust this person?

And anyway, so the one woman's like, oh, okay, you know, she'll let me go with her.

So I did, and I took her, and she's like, yeah, I saw you coming back, and I was kind of wondering what, you know, what you were doing.

Then I went back, and I asked the other woman, you know, I can help you, or you can use the umbrella.

And she's like, no, no.

So twice she told me, no, no, she'd wait.

And I said, okay, okay, you know, so she stayed.

But my point is, if I was always hurrying, then I'd miss those moments where I could just do something little to remind someone that I see them, that they matter, that, you know, that we're going to take time out of our schedule.

I was already dripping wet.

What was a couple more minutes of getting wetter?

But it's exactly what you said, which is too many of us.

And that's why I shared this morning.

Are so stuck and caught up in the next place we have to be and get our to do list done, that we're not always present with the people around us, whether it's at the store or in our communities or sometimes even in our home homes or our close friends.

So, yeah, I love shared that.

I love.

I love your umbrella story.

And, you know, I say something now when I'm in, like, the long grocery line or if something doesn't work out the way I planned, because the only thing we can really control is our responses.

We can't control the situation.

That's right.

So much.

And I.

And now I. I find myself saying, okay, God, that's not going to happen, or, okay, God, I'm stuck here.

What do you have planned for me?

And it's so funny how when you change your mindset and you change your attitude towards what's happening, the whole thing can look completely different.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, years ago, I sort of came to this conclusion for myself that it's never in the.

How do I say this?

Of course our work matters.

Showing up at work, you know, doing all the things, whether we're doing something that has to do with.

It's very obvious, right?

Like talking about faith on a podcast.

But also just any work we do, right.

We can show up and we can be a, you know, a person of faith and all that.

But what I learned long ago is it has so much more to do with people, and it's in the moments.

Like my dad, he did pass in February, but he had Parkinson's, so, you know, it got worse and worse.

But the point is, is the days that I would go over there, and luckily he lived near us, so most of my siblings and I were nearby.

And as he was getting, you know, worse, we were over there more helping my stepmom.

But the point was, is I knew that it's things like that, taking time out of a schedule that I could have said, oh, I could just keep doing work.

That was more important to me, invest in people, invest in the relationships than anything else I probably did that day.

Right.

It wasn't important, but.

But I've learned that it's about people and me investing in people.

It's so funny that you bring this up.

I had dinner last night with my dear friend who's also my spiritual director.

He's a priest.

And he unexpectedly was in town because he's moved and I don't get to see him often.

And we were talking about relationships, and, you know, that's what life is all about.

God wants a relationship with us.

He put more than one person here so we could be in relationship with each other to glorify his relationship.

I mean, to me, there's nothing more important in life than relationships.

So when we're making different choices that are shortchanging our opportunity as you didn't do in the, in the grocery line and with the umbrellas, you know, we're not really taking advantage of.

Of what he wants most for us.

Yeah.

And like I said, I've had so many things that keep hitting that home for me.

So I have three sons.

They're.

They're all now 18 and over, so 18 to 23, and they're still all at home.

You know, two are in college and then one is finished his degree for now.

And he's.

He's working, but he's, like, looking for that career job.

So he's at that phase.

But he, my oldest, had come home from college a year and a half in with depression and things.

And so I remember, I think I did a podcast episode and I think I wrote about it.

But, you know, I said, I think the most important thing I did today was make peanut butter toast.

Yeah.

In other words, it's the little things we do for people.

And in that case, my son, he didn't want to talk a lot about it.

I mean, at the beginning he did.

What he needed to know is that he was cared for and it didn't matter what was going on.

Like, I was there in the way that he needed, which was that that's what he wanted.

Yeah.

You showed up, and you showed up in a certain way.

I love this story so much because you are talking about it's not the size of the thing.

Mother Teresa's quote, you know, which talks about, we all can't do great things, but we can do small things with great love.

Like, to me, the end of story.

Like, we could just shut it all down now.

And that's what the peanut butter chips are.

Yes, that's exactly.

Small thing, great love.

And we don't even know the amount of impact that has made on your son that day at that moment when he needed it.

That's right.

Absolutely.

Oh, I love it.

Okay, so what I would love to talk about is you.

We're going to get into kind of you being a spiritual director and what that looks like and like, how can we tap into more of that, you know, or understand that?

But first, I'd love you shared with me before we recorded that.

You've been.

You've had your own spiritual director that you've worked with for, I think you said 40 years.

So can you tell us one?

Why did you start.

Why did you decide to work with A spirit director and then two.

How has working with your spiritual director impacted and changed your life?

Oh, sure.

So I've had various spiritual directors, not the same one, for 40 years.

And I started in spiritual direction when I was a student at Georgetown University.

So, you know, just for a moment, because I don't know if your viewers know what spiritual direction is.

So spiritual direction cuts across a lot of traditions.

There's Catholic, Jewish, I'm trained in the ignatian tradition.

So Saint Ignatius was a 16th century mystic saint from a soldier, and he started the Order of the Society of Jesus.

So he has a few principles, and one of the first is finding God in all things.

So your relationship in God isn't just you sitting in a room in your head.

It's seen in everything from nature to your work, as you mentioned, to relationships.

And he uses a lot of creativity in the work.

But the bottom line of spiritual direction is it is for people who want to get closer to God on a very personal level.

It is not Bible study, it is not therapy.

I, as a director, am walking along beside you, listening contemplatively and listening to where you're seeing God in your life, or maybe you're not even using that God language, what's happening in your life.

And I'm picking out because the Holy Spirit is there with us, the things and putting them in front of you and asking just questions to help you grow in your own way.

So I don't want you to get anywhere.

I'm just there as a companion.

It's your journey and you know, I'm there to accompany you.

And you meet once a month for 50 minutes or so.

So here's my story.

When I was an undergraduate, I. I always had just a deep knowledge of God.

We grew up literally in a house that was.

The church was at the base of where we lived.

And so as a young child, my very dear friend and I, Charlotte, would play in the church.

We would pretend to be priests in the church.

We were in folk group.

So there was a big blurred line between real life and God because, you know, it always won for me.

By the time I got to Georgetown, my faith was very deep and I was actually thinking of becoming a nun.

And I started with my first spiritual director just exploring that question because spiritual direction is really good when you have a big decision you want to make and you want to do some discernment.

And what I realized in that relationship is we weren't just working on that decision.

I was just becoming more aware of the presence of God and where he was showing up in my life.

And I would bring things to her and she would help me see things.

And it's kind of like when you're acquiring a new skill or when you're.

As a dancer.

I'm trying a new move.

You practice, you practice, you practice, and then one day you just have it.

And you can't say the moment that you got it, but you got it.

And that's how spiritual direction has been for me.

My relationship with God, my personal relationship, keeps growing, but I can't ever point to you a defining moment to say, this is where my relationship changed.

Are there times where I feel closer to him?

Yes.

Are there times where I feel more distant?

Yes.

And it's a journey together.

So that's, you know, my thoughts on spiritual direction.

Oh, that's so great.

Well, that's.

I mean, I'm sure others, too, at that age were looking at spiritual direction, but still, that's pretty impressive that.

That young, right, in college that you're already like, okay, I'm gonna go find a spiritual director.

So that's.

That's pretty amazing.

So one thing I'd like to know is there's definitely obviously different practices in the training that you did.

Right.

The.

How you.

The type of direction you did.

Yeah.

And so first I'd like to know what is your number one spiritual practice, that own life that you enjoy doing.

So whether you call it your favorite or just the one that you do.

Most regularly, probably one of my two most important anchors is called the examine, and that is very ignatian.

I like to do it at the end of the day because I just find it makes most sense for me.

So that's where, you know, you start out and you just thank God and you ask him to give you the courage to really honestly look at your day.

And then I just roll the tape and I look at where I roll back everything that went through the day.

And I just asked him to show me where was I acting in a way that was pleasing to you?

Where was I in sync with you?

And then show me the moments where that really wasn't a nice response.

I was kind of a jerk there.

I could have been more patient there.

Show me the things where I could step better with you.

And it's amazing.

I really do find by doing that, it's not always pretty, but I do find a.

That I'm really able to identify and say, there's so much grace in my life.

I'm so grateful for all the ways you show up in my life and all the people who are in my life.

But then also, Kristen, I see the honest, like, I need to be better at that.

That really stunk and I need to send an apology note tomorrow or make a phone call.

So that to me is probably my most important practice.

I love that.

You know, I.

It's amazing.

Obviously this is a Christian podcast, so most people listening are probably, you know, practicing some version of Christianity.

But whether they are or aren't, the point is, is I think that's an amazing practice to really, like you said, review your day.

Because, you know, some people might do that weekly, monthly, but to do it every day, like you said, it's, it's when it's top of mind because when more time passes, we don't recall all the things always, you know, and so looking back, taking that little bit of time and, and trying to do it from a place of seeing the beauty, seeing the grace, the gratitude, the promises.

Right.

That all the things that God's doing.

But also, like you said, like, you know, maybe I was rushing and I was snappy or maybe because a lot of times we have a, we're playing a part and we don't always acknowledge it at the moment.

Like maybe we were triggered by something or.

And it wasn't the other person.

So I think reflecting, like you said, to become aware of God in our lives, but also of ourselves.

Right.

Like, and so we can be more intentional with how we show up in the world.

Yeah, I love that you said that.

It gives you more self awareness and with more self awareness, then, you know, that's the first step.

Also, you made me think of something that I hadn't thought about before.

I'm not a big journaler.

I assume viewers do like journaling.

If I had added, you know, journaling into this exam and just writing down those things and then was able to look back, I bet it would be really interesting to see how the Lord was changing my heart and therefore my behavior over time.

Right, Absolutely.

I think you're right.

Yeah.

And I journal sometimes or, I mean, many times I do a prayer journal, but I don't always do like an end of the day or first day journaling.

I mean, I have intentions sometimes to do them more.

But I do talk often about writing down prayers and trying to go back and see if they've been answered.

Right.

Because to your point, if we, if we don't pay attention sometimes we're missing those answered prayers.

I think so.

And like you said, if we don't write them Down.

Not that I write everything down, but it is true.

It's easy to miss it.

Right.

Just in the busyness of life.

Right.

Can I say one more thing on that examine?

So, you know, one more pitch for doing the examine at the end of the day.

I think a lot of research has shown that whatever is last in your mind obviously works on your unconscious.

And sometimes you could wake up to a dream and go, oh, that's why I thought of that.

Because right before bed when you do the examine, I like it because I feel like that's going to work in your unconscious and that's a good thing to have at the end of the day, right before you go to sleep, versus answering texts or something that might not be as fruitful later.

Absolutely.

I think you're absolutely right about that.

So, yeah, that's great.

So let me ask you this.

I know there's some different spiritual practices that you do with some of the people that work with you or some of the groups that work with you.

And I know one is the lecto divina and then one's holy listening.

So what would you share with us that we might be able to take away or learn something from or apply to our own lives?

Sure.

So let's start with lectio divina.

So lectio divina, as many of the viewers might know, is an ancient old practice.

And it is basically taking a passage from the Bible and reading it contemplatively three times, taking time in between, not to think your way through what you just read at all, but just simmer in it.

And a question is usually asked and then you just see what pops into your head.

You can do it alone, but it's really powerful in a group.

So I've, in my leading of this group, you know, I usually stick with the New Testament most of the time.

And to be honest, in my prep for it, I'm kind of led by the spirit to see what it should be and thinking about what's going on within the group.

But we read it three times, and I'll ask a question like, okay, what is a word or a phrase that comes to your mind when you read that?

What happens is we all just take some time, see what comes up, and then one by one, we share the response.

We don't have a conversation about it at that point.

We just share it.

And then someone reads it a second time, and I'll ask a different question like, what did you feel when that passage was read?

And then we do that again, and then we do it a third time.

And it is amazing to see a.

To hear seven or eight different perspectives on the same passage.

It opens up your imagination.

It helps you see, you know how that.

That thing about the elephant feels differently depending on where your hand is touching the elephant?

Well, it's sort of like that.

Yeah.

The whole thing looks different.

It's really powerful.

I've had one group that's together for 18 years, and just the trust level of that group, you know, it's.

People have come and gone, but the familiarity, what is shared, because obviously you're not just having things come to mind that are just the passage.

It's a lot of time what's going on in your own life and why a word struck you and why a phrase struck you.

So it's.

It ends up making for very deep relationships.

And I laugh because sometimes we share more in that group than I've, you know, shared with friends that I see in person.

Because, you know, I'm not always in person.

In lectio divina.

Right?

Absolutely.

There's a trust in a vulnerability that happens there, right?

Yes.

Being in that space.

So, yeah, I love that.

That's beautiful.

And then what would you share?

Listening.

Yeah.

Holy listening.

So holy listening is a pra.

Is where you gather a number of people.

Usually I think the.

The sweet spot is like five to nine.

And I will ask you to not think about it, but just take some quiet space and see what comes to mind.

In the last 24 hours, where do you think you saw God?

Where did you feel God?

Or just something that is stuck with you and you can't shake it?

And then we each share that story.

And this is where people then will give you feedback.

They don't give advice.

It's not about giving advice.

It's just about what the spirit might be talking through each person in that group.

Yeah.

That's beautiful.

Yeah, it's more like what.

What they noticed or observed or came to them from the.

What the person shared.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's beautiful.

I love that.

So let me ask you this.

You shared, obviously, like, kind of how.

How you've worked with spiritual director.

You shared a little bit about how you work with people as spiritual director.

What maybe just what would you just share with people that may be either spiritual direction, the concept of it's new to them, or they haven't worked with someone before.

A spiritual director.

Because I'd say more than not, my audience probably falls there.

Right.

Where they're not working with somebody now.

I don't mean They've maybe never had a conversation with a pastor or their priest or whatever it might be, but they might not be working with somebody in that role.

I guess.

What would you just want to share with us about that we haven't already covered, like, the benefit of it or like you said, how.

How does it.

I guess when or why might someone decide to do that?

Right.

So somebody might decide to do it if they're making a big decision, or somebody might decide to do it if they just feel dried up inside or.

My relationship isn't going air with God.

I don't feel God, I don't sense God.

You know, most of my directees have come to me and they happen to all be women who just fall in that camp that I want more.

I want more in my relationship with God.

And look, it is three people in the room, the directee, myself and the Holy Spirit.

And it is sort of a chemistry thing.

And what I always do is say, let's try it for three months.

We're going to be very honest with each other.

You tell me if I'm being helpful to you.

And, you know, I'll also be observing to think, to see if I think this is a good fit.

So I would say it's really for anyone who wants to grow closer to God and not in an academic way, not in getting to know who God is by, you know, reading about him, but by experiencing him.

That was beautiful.

Thank you for sharing that.

I love that.

So, okay.

One of the things you and I both talk about, I think, or I don't know in what context talk about, but I know it's a subject matter and of course it's in the Bible, but is joy.

So let's tap into that for a little bit.

So, you know, one of the things I think is, you know, for obviously joy is one of the fruits of the spirit or fruit of the spirit.

But what would you just share with us about where can we find signs of joy in the world and how do we harness joy in our own lives from a, you know, faith perspective?

Yeah.

And I think this is so much the goodness of God.

If we have our eyes and our hearts open, the opportunities for joy are everywhere.

Because if you think about it, what is joy a reflection of, but a greater joy, which is his joy.

Right.

We're not talking about happiness and happy, which is an emotion.

I honestly hate that word.

But the real true joy to me is a reflection, reflection of God.

And the more you're open and the more you can train yourself to not be judged or closed, which I think is one of the hardest things not to judge, but just, I mean, the easy, low hanging fruits for me is always nature.

Like, I go out my door first thing in the morning and I literally just stand there to just hear and smell and see and like right there, bang.

I've got some joy, you know, but people find joy in different places.

I really find joy in all kinds of people.

I get a big kick out of people and I find joy in my passions.

I mean, I'm crazy about dance.

It's just who I am.

I'm crazy about this new improv world.

So, you know, those are moments of joy, but the real deep joy, I like to try to keep expanding and challenging myself.

What am I aware of?

What am I noticing?

Yeah, absolutely.

I think it, it really does come down to that is the more, the better you get at noticing.

You know, letting yourself be in awe of God, his creation, his creativity, how he made us also unique and, you know, uniquely made.

You know, it's just if we're paying attention.

Yes.

Like you said, I'm.

I'm.

I'm just, I don't know, grateful in all the time.

And much like you, I.

1.

Nature is a big place for me.

But like you said, it's even people just seeing people that are so themselves like that they're the person walking down the street and they don't care what anyone thinks.

They're dancing like all those things to me, like that just makes me like smile so big.

Right?

Because I'm like, look at them.

Like they are embodying in some way.

Right.

So I don't know if this is a bad habit or what, but I like to have fun with people.

So, you know, I think like, if you just keep a little bit of your silly self, right, you can have a lot of fun in life.

But I want to go back to.

I feel like we're in the wizard of Oz and, you know, everything's the yellow brick road leading to one thing.

To be able to do what you're talking about, noticing and being aware.

We got to slow down.

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, yeah, and I think that's still such a struggle for so many people, you know, I mean, even.

Yeah.

Any people I know that are, you know, very into their faith.

Faith practices have a relationship with God.

They.

It's still a struggle, right?

It's still a struggle.

And it might go to that whole topic of habits because, you know, you get into a rhythm and you get into sort of a way of Responding and it becomes a habit.

Something you don't think about that becomes part of you.

And then you have to do the hard work of a. Recognizing it and then walking it back.

That's right.

Well, yeah.

And it's.

It's habits.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

But it's also thoughts.

I think a lot of us don't realize we let the idea of hustle take over what we're thinking about or what we think we have to get done in a given day.

Your job's still going to be there tomorrow and you're still going to have all the things and the next day the same.

Like.

Like at some point you have to realize what is a pace that's reasonable to maintain.

And we weren't asked to do.

You know, I say all the time, we're not asked to do three days worth of effort in one day yet.

That's what we're all or many of us are trying to do.

You know, we're trying to cram in more than a day than God's ever asked us to do.

Yeah.

And then we wonder why we're exhausted and frenzied.

Yeah.

You know, I wish I had this advice that I now have, and it's like the 5, 5, 5 rule.

When I was in my 20s and 30s and in corporate America, everything to your point was it's got to be done today.

I was in, you know, the world of consciousness, consumer products and everything was high intensity.

But along the way, once you realize, does this matter in five minutes?

Does this matter in five hours?

Does this matter in five days?

I think my response, I would have been a very different person versus that, a bit of an amped up.

Oh my gosh.

And maybe, you know, putting focus where it didn't even need to be or maybe needed to stay in its right order.

Yeah.

Well, and I think that's.

Sadly, that is the culture that most corporate jobs and many other jobs are, are they're pushing that narrative.

Right.

And so they do make you feel like if you want to keep your job, you want to keep your paycheck, then you have to keep up.

Right.

And so I get why we get.

We fall into that mindset or that worry, but we have to realize that we don't have to stay in that construct.

Right.

We can actually pull ourselves out of it.

Like, you still want to get the job done, you still want to do a good job, good works, but we don't have to play that game.

Right.

We don't have to.

To live the way that you're you're feeling that you have to live.

But like you said, a lot of that has to do with habit and then repeat thoughts like, I have to, I have to, I have to.

Instead of like, what is most important for me to get done today and what can wait.

Exactly.

As the person decide.

Yeah.

Not our bosses priorities.

When I was so I was a product manager at Clarol in New York City and it was fast paced and rough and tumble and I was in new products and I had a boss who every day was changing what new product we were going to go after.

This was like honestly when Moose was being invented.

I mean, we're talking 80s and so, you know, I didn't thrive very well there.

In fact, I ended up on probation because they thought I couldn't take something to a finish line.

And the person who was then in charge of me said, look it, there's a very easy answer.

Don't do everything that's in your inbox.

Look at it and see what really matters.

And do you know what?

My Entire life changed?

3/4 of that inbox I ignored and all of a sudden I was able to focus on what matters.

Yes.

I mean, it's great.

It.

Wow.

Who knew?

Yeah.

So you were actually practicing discernment but in your job.

And you were also having, you were realizing you have some autonomy.

Like, yeah, you have to be the decider at the end of the day.

Because I get it, like we have deadlines in the world.

We have all these things.

But like you said, you're never going to hit the deadline if you do every single little thing right.

If everything's a fire, you're never going to actually.

Right.

Yeah.

So that's, that's good.

There was something that you said that I wanted to bring up, but I.

That that's passed.

So now.

So.

Okay, what else would you just want to share with us to just encourage the audience or, you know, just all the things you've walked through, like what's just coming to you that you feel like we haven't covered yet that you would really like to just share with us.

Yeah.

You know, one thing I would say is just be yourself.

Be yourself and keep listening to what's going on inside of you.

Don't, don't, don't try to follow what you think you should be doing.

Just follow your intuition.

Because if you're a prayerful person, which you are, you wouldn't be listening to this podcast.

You're going to be.

You're already in the spirit.

And so just, just trust and give yourself a break.

I think, you know, when I was a younger mom and when I was juggling career and mom and all that, I. I never thought I could do it all because I pretty.

I learned pretty fast, you can't do it all.

You just got to focus on whoever's yelling the loudest.

You know, who hasn't had that if you have multiple kids?

But, you know, just recognize that you were.

You are human and just, you know, you know, you know, just listen, take your time, breathe.

I'm a big believer in breathing.

I mean, when my kids were young, I would give myself a timeout if I needed it, just to recalibrate, just to have a moment, you know, just to say, help me.

Absolutely.

Oh, yeah.

I've definitely had to walk out of the room before.

Quite the same, you know, like, we're like, okay, it's getting to be too much with a crying baby screaming.

You know, I'm like, okay, I need to just put the baby in the crib and just take a breath for a minute.

Right.

And, like, reset myself.

Right.

So I can do more of that.

So, yeah, I think.

I think I know what I was going to mention.

And it was.

We both kind of alluded to the fact that we should be ourselves and that each of us and I definitely talk about this very regularly, but each of us has these unique interests and passion and gifts.

And I think sometimes Christian women feel that they're being selfish for pursuing these things or.

And that's one of the things I talk about all the time, is reigniting your passion.

Right.

Which has to do with your purpose or at least maybe in this season.

But what would you share with us about that?

Because this is something where I continue to have women raise their hand and say, like, I feel like the spark isn't there.

I feel like I'm on autopilot.

I don't.

I don't feel like I can give myself time to do things that bring me joy.

But God designed us that way, is how I see it.

Like, he uniquely made you to have interest.

Like, not all my friends like reading Christian authors since I was going.

Taking religion classes in college.

Right.

Like, I. I like things that a lot of my friends don't like.

Right.

Like, we were all made uniquely.

And so I'm just curious what you would choose.

And, you know, I have a couple thoughts on this.

First of all, listen, unless we were made to be monks, where, you know, our whole job is supposed to be silence and prayer, we weren't made to be just praying.

In a room by ourselves all day.

We're made to be in the world.

And as you said, we were made uniquely.

And wouldn't it be sad, I think, for myself, if God gave me this gift of dance and I never used it?

So I don't use it because I want to be noticed by people.

I mean, yes, I like winning an event, but honestly, I like the challenge and the closeness in the relationship of the dance partner, the dance studio, fellow competitors, what I can bring to others, I think it's fine as long as you're not doing it for your own glory.

If you're chasing a passion because you want to be noticed and you want, you know, the act, all the accolades, then, honey, I think you've picked the wrong thing.

But if you have a gift or if you have an interest, God wants you to be in the world.

He wants you to share your gift.

He wants you to be.

To make others, you know, happy and enjoy and be part of the experience with you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think too often, you know, because women tend to be the caregivers, because we tend to put other people's needs first, right.

As moms, as maybe caregivers of someone older parent, maybe of our spouses, whatever it might be, right.

A lot of us are more often volunteers and more things.

But I think because of that, which are all beautiful and wonderful things and I think how we were, most of us were made, but it can allow us to kind of ignore, right, some parts of ourselves.

And I think the risk of that, though, is that God has so much more for us, but we have to be willing to say yes to the things that he has designed us to truly have interest in.

Right.

Like some people love things that have to do with, like, people passing and like, caring for them in that work.

Like, like their interests aren't just, like you said, they're not selfish interests, they're interest because it's unique to you or how the intersection meets of those things.

So.

And, you know, you just made me think about something.

I mean, it's the old glass.

If you keep pouring out and you're not filling yourself with anything, you are not going to be coming with joy.

Talk about joy.

I mean, I honestly, my dance brings me so much joy and fills me up that I have an aging, you know, mom that I'm involved with.

I'm trying to be a good grandparent.

I can, I've got a team in work I can give because I've been filled up in a.

In a way that's creative and and just, you know, brings.

Brings me everything good.

So then I could turn around and pour it back out.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

It's so true.

I mean, right?

And that's why we go back to be renewed and refreshed every day.

Right.

In Christ or in God.

So absolutely.

Okay, so last question.

What is filling you up or fueling you these days?

What is one or two things that just are, you know, exciting you or just keeping you?

Obviously, dance is one of them in your faith.

So what else would you share?

Yeah, so I've had this season of a lot of injuries, and my husband had Lyme disease in the winter.

So I am really appreciating the moment that nobody's sick, nothing's broken, nothing needs to rehab, you know, where you're spending all this time.

So one is just being healthy, and I'm really just so grateful for that.

And then the other thing is, we have a new grandbaby, and that veil is so thin between.

You know, I forget when you're a parent yourself, you know, you're just not.

You're so invested in doing the right thing and you're tired and all that.

But as a grandparent, you just see the closeness between the baby and God, and there's so many gifts to be enjoyed there that I'm really enjoying the baby himself.

But I'm also enjoying seeing God through this little tiny individual.

It's so easy to see his absolute, pure love that way.

Yeah, that's beautiful.

Okay, so, Robin, tell us, how can people learn more about your spiritual, you know, you as a spiritual director and your ministry and all that.

Right.

So I have a very simple website in-sacred-space.com where you can learn about the different practices.

And if someone's interested in, you know, pursuing one of these or wants to learn more or I can be helpful in directing them.

Probably easiest is just to email me@r cancellicloud.com I think that's probably easiest.

Okay, great.

Wonderful.

Well, thank you for taking the time to join us today to share so much information about spiritual direction and about these different beautiful faith practices and just sharing your heart with us about the joy and going through different seasons.

Thank you for your podcast.

There's nothing more important in life.

It's great to have these conversations, and I really liked being here.

Thanks so much.

Thank you.

As we wrap up today, I just wanted to share a couple ideas with you that I think really relate to the conversation that Robin and I had today.

The first is in the book Chase the Lion by Pastor or Dr. Mark Batterson.

He says there are opportunities all around you all the time.

Opportunities to show kindness, opportunities show courage.

And just like the photographer who's ready to click and capture the moment, you have to be ready to seize the opportunity.

And obviously in our conversation today, Robin and I talked about we have to be present in our lives, not rushing from one thing to the next.

We have to allow the space in between so that we are present in those moments and we are paying attention and listening to that small voice that God might be prompting us to be a part of something.

And I want to share an idea with you from the book At Home in this Life by Jerusalem Jackson Greer.

She's basically explaining that she had also gone through a season of waiting.

She was basically on the couch for months, her foot in a boot.

And in other words, she wasn't able to do what she usually does.

And she said she was reading Jeremiah I think 29 and she says a suspicion that had begun with reading St. Benedict kind of hit her.

And it says balance isn't a matter of getting what we think will make us happy.

It is about cultivating a grateful and present heart right where we are.

And then she shares a couple questions that I think we could all benefit from asking ourselves.

She says, what if instead of seeking balance, I seek rootedness?

Can I find a way to live a slower version of modern life?

She says, is it possible to slow down internally right where I am without changing my external circumstances, job, school, home, responsibilities.

And I thought that's a beautiful question.

Then she also another question she asks is, can we grow deep spiritual roots producing fruit in our day to day lives?

And then in her book she also shares 1 Corinthians 7:17.

So I want to share two versions of that with you.

One is from the new international version of the Bible.

It's nevertheless, nevertheless, each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them.

This is the rule I lay down in all the churches.

In her book she shares the version from the message which says, and don't be wishing were someplace else or with someone else.

Where you are right now is God's place for you.

Live and obey and love and believe right there.

And I thought these were beautiful to share.

When we talked about being present and we talked about deepening our spiritual practices.

Having a grateful and opened heart allows us to deepen our relationship, our the experience that we have with God in our lives.

And so I just wanted to share those things with you.

But once Again, I do hope that you can take something out of this episode and if there's anything that you want to that hit you or struck you, I'd love to hear from you.

You can email me from my website, you can DM me on Instagram.

Also, I did want to let you know, if you haven't already joined my email weekly email newsletter, head over to KristinFitch.com and join our community.

I usually send a weekly email just to encourage you, to uplift you and to help you deepen your relationships, your faith, to change your perspective and just to step into more of what God has for you.

Also, if you're somebody that is looking to make a change, want to make a shift in your life or you just feel stuck in a season or a part of your life, you can definitely check out Robin's Spiritual Direction Offering.

And then I also do coaching mentor sessions.

All of the information is on my website, but I would love to connect with you, talk to you and see if doing a session is the right fit for you.

But I love helping women walk through the season they're in and to see what's on the horizon for them.

So if you're looking for somebody to come alongside of you, definitely reach out and check out the information.

Thanks again for listening to the show and if you enjoyed today's episode, we would love it if you could take a minute to leave a rating and and review on Apple Podcast because it helps our show get discovered by more people.