Well, welcome Lisa, thank you so much for taking the

time to being on good real.

Dr. Friedman, thank you so much for having me on. This is such a

delight, knowing that you're in France. And I'm just honored to

be here. Thank you.

Well, I was very happy to read your book, because I always love

reading my guests books, but this one touched me very much,

because it is such a wonderful combination of two modalities

that I just find fascinating. Of course, psychotherapy is

something I do but the other one is astrology. And the

combination of both is something I have to admit I wasn't so

aware of until I read your book. So what is actually psycho

astrology. This is something that you came up with, or is it

something that exists?

Well, it's certainly existed. I put the words together and

trademarked psycho astrology, because like you're saying, I

saw this really unique intersection of where our

personal psychology intersects with our natal astrology. And

for me that has to do with the placement of Chiron c h I r o n.

Specifically, I am trained as a psychotherapist, and astrology

has been kind of a newer language for me to familiarize

myself with, I see astrology as a symbolic language that can

help us understand patterns in our lives, propensities, the

gifts we have. And yet it's through our freewill and taking

personal responsibility that we can live in to those potentials,

or choose others for ourselves. And I found that unique that

Chiron in your birth chart will be present in a sign Chiron will

be an Aries, Taurus, Libra Scorpio, it's different for

everyone. And that leads to a deeper understanding of the area

of our lives that we might hide or edit from others. And even

from our own awareness, because we tend to judge ourselves, we

might have low self esteem and not want others to know that. So

we'll compensate in different areas to try to hide that part

of ourselves, for example, yet it causes us to feel sometimes

even ashamed, or less than, and we know that that sense of

unworthiness really can have some negative effects in our

lives of it might show up as depression or anxiety or not

quite living in the way you most deeply desire. So I'm just going

to pause to check in with you. I'm curious what you think about

that?

Well, one thing that I find surprising about Chiron was in

your book, you kind of laid out how to find the placement of

your own Chiron and you know, usually in astrology, it's very

specific time of your birth, the place of your birth, and but

that seemed to be a very wide range of yours, that was

basically determine your Chiron placement. So for me it was in

Pisces, for example. And it was through a stretch of I think 10

years. So that does that mean that really all those people

born during this time have the placement in Pisces? Or is there

a more specific way to determining where your Chiron

is?

It's actually both things that you're saying. And Chiron does

spend about eight years in a sign. So people in your age

range of eight years will all share Chiron in Pisces, which

has to do with a core wounding and your sense of the immaterial

world that could include spirituality, or a lack thereof.

And it manifests in of a pattern of where you'll put other people

first, but to an extreme, where you'll feel depleted and often

others might not know and you could actually harbor a secret

resentment for doing so much for others. And because they don't

know that you are over extended for example, you know, they

might be surprised that you suddenly are angry about it or

you might say something kind of cutting or edgy and others it

might push them away when what you desire is more closeness is

some more help is some more co creation together. And Mother

Teresa is an example she had her Chiron in Pisces and she

obviously healed that so deeply to be of service to the world in

huge ways. So it's really about learning to put on your oxygen

mask first, as they say, in aviation, and then aid and

assist others to give from your overflow. And I sense this is

something you have most certainly naturally healed in

your life. Dr. Friedman, Is that Is that accurate? Well, your

work that work in

progress, because it's definitely something that I feel

that was, you know, something I enjoyed about your book that are

very accurate in regards to that what you call core wounds that,

you know, we all are dealing with now I call it survival

pattern. And I certainly attribute that to my upbringing,

which was very much me being the designated to help her and

Peacemaker. That's why my name is freedom and man of peace. So

that's definitely something that resonated with me. And, and I

can very much see how this is something that's also in that

specific generation that I grew up in, you know, very

predominant where children were often just put into that role

having to be those little helpers and little pleasers. And

but what I'm wondering is with Chiron, how do you see that as

you know, the the Chiron effect is actually something that stars

create? Or is it just a map that basically gives us then the idea

of okay, you are in that area right now, where this core wound

is quite, you know, a parent or predominant what, what is the

Chiron effect?

Sure. And before I go there, Dr. Friedman, just to let people

know that, though, someone eight years of your age range will

share the same Chiron placement, as we were discussing Chiron in

Pisces, but based upon if you have your time of birth, that

will reveal the house, the astrological house that Chiron

is in. And that's different for everyone, whether it manifests

in the first house versus the third, the first house having to

do with self esteem, the third house having to do with

siblings, and communication. And so just to delineate that, that

if you do have your time of birth, you'll be able to read

about that added layer of where Chiron manifests in your life,

if it's personally or in your professional life. But even if

you don't have your time of birth, knowing what your core

wounding or vulnerability is, will help you you'll pretty much

know where that manifests intuitively, if Oh, you know,

your patterns, which is what the Chiron effect is the Chiron

effect is the patterning in our lives, that we can only go as

far as our largest limiting belief. And if you think about

that, for a minute, it's kind of a unique way to look at things

that we can go as far as wide and deep, as we believe is true

for ourselves. And that's the people places and things that we

habituate that we orbit, I see us all and I talked about in the

book, we're like little solar systems, we're planets,

habituating, our friends, the places we go to these people,

places and things daily, weekly, monthly, yearly. And that

becomes, we orbit them, and they orbit us. And for the most, you

know, I see a lot of people being mostly happy with their

orbit with their little solar system that they've created. But

often there's one area of our lives that it's like, wow, if I

could only be have more financial success, or if I could

have more professional recognition, or I'd really love

to be in a relationship romantically that successful or

enhance the one that I'm in. And so that's what the Chiron effect

speaks to, it speaks to really looking at the thoughts that we

have, we have up to 60,000 thoughts per day. And I talked

about though, we're not able to identify or capture all of

those, we don't need to, it's just a matter of every day if we

could capture one or two of our negative and fear based

thoughts, and really look at it and say, Hey, I don't want to

believe this. I don't want to be limited by my beliefs about

myself. I choose to release, for instance, that I'm not good

enough for that I can't have what I want. And I replace it

with wanting to believe that I can actually live the life of my

dreams that I can actually have that financial backing that

support that flow and ease in my life. And I give affirmations

that you can write and take away like for Chiron in Pisces, their

affirmations like I forgive myself. I love myself as I am. I

am enough And you can take these and write them down. And I carry

an affirmation around every day that says everything is always

working out for me. And it's in my wallet. And when I go to pay

for something, it's like a nice little surprise. And it's in

this way of reprogramming our minds our subconscious mind. In

fact, it's our life starts to change, our orbit starts to up

be upgraded, our frequency is higher and clearer, and we start

to have some new experience some new people come into our lives,

does that help illuminate what the Chiron effect is?

Yes. And a lot of people that do have a problem with astrology

would say, well, am I a victim of my stars? And how do they

suppose to influence me? And what is this to do with how I go

through life? So just for those people that are, you know,

already feeling like, well, this is too, out there for me, how

would you ground astrology into their consciousness?

Sure, Dr. Friedman, you know, that's why I began with that

when we first started our conversation, that astrology is

a beautiful symbolic language. And like I had said earlier, it

it offers you some potential patterns, some gifts, some

propensities that you have in your life. And yet, it's free

will, it's taking personal responsibility for ourselves.

That's how we change. So astrology is the diagnostic

point, to look at where your Chiron falls in your birth

chart, and therefore illuminating on a spectrum, what

I call core wounding on one end and vulnerability on the other.

For some of you, if you've experienced childhood abuse and

trauma, this would be a deeper wound of neglect of abandonment,

for instance, and for others of you, you might have been

naturally healing yourself, because the body heals

naturally, just like when we get a cut, you know, immediately,

there's healing that starts and we don't have to do much at all,

but put a bandaid over it for the body to heal itself. And our

psychology is the same, we're really made to heal naturally.

And so for you, for others, that might be an area of

vulnerability, that you're you have awareness that, you know, I

might lack the skills of, for instance, a healthy, romantic

relationship. But yet, you've been reading you've been

studying, you've been in therapy, to really beef up and

strengthen and support yourself and having communication skills

and learning to listen more empathetically, for instance, to

others and yourself. So you'll find yourself on the spectrum.

And I believe in personal responsibility, it's up to us.

And I talk about in the book that though the things that have

happened to you might not be your fault, especially in the

instances of trauma and abuse, it is our responsibility to heal

ourselves from what has happened to us by by accident, or by our

own doing. And I see that journey really being about

forgiveness. And I know Dr. Friedman, I was taught that

forgiveness is for others. Yet forgiveness is also for you. And

it's really the thoughts you're thinking in your own mind about

yourself, to learn to be a supportive coach, to learn to

really tune in to what you most deeply need today, and start to

show up and give yourself those things. And I'm curious what you

think about that being in the healing profession?

Well, I feel forgiveness especially is a very important

aspect of the healing of self and the healing also, of our

relationship with ourself. And, and one of those things that I

find so interesting about this whole concept that you

introduced, is that for many people, they get stuck in the,

in the symptoms, you know, in the symptom of I'm feeling

depressed and feeling insecure, or I'm feeling down on myself

and I love your cat there in the background walking around.

Thank you. She loves being in interviews. Oh yes, alertly my

cats do that too. And all that sweet.

And you know and so that you with the psycho astrology also

help people to really go beyond the symptoms of the emotions

because in our society, we are often so focused on Well, I am

anxious, that's what I need to focus on. Or I am someone who

has struggled with low self esteem. That's what I focus on

it. And we are not going to what's actually underneath that,

you know, of course, we can always chase the symptoms we can

always try to, you know, make ourselves feel a victim of our

emotions and we're not seeing them really as just little

messenger that tells us hey, there is a core belief there is

a core wound. That is really the origin of what you're feeling

your feelings are not wrong. similar to ours being a map. I

think our feelings need to be seen as maps to So, I feel like

you know, being able to forgive ourselves also for how we feel

and realize there is nothing wrong with our feelings. It's

just something something that, you know, connects you to

something deeper, is a part of the journey that I'm teaching my

clients and that I have been on as well, because it's, I think

it is a way to find back to wholeness, which ultimately what

healing is about. But we talked about my, you know, the core

wounds of, or the Chiron core wounds of the Pisces, what other

examples do you have that, you know, what other signs and core

wounds

are work with, you know, one that I think is interesting that

I've been working with clients recently that have this

placement of Chiron in the sign of Gemini. And that speaks to a

core wounding slash vulnerability again, on that

spectrum, having to do with empathetic attunement. And

that's just a fancy way of saying that when you were

growing up, there was this Miss attunement to your emotional

needs. And it left you feeling like people didn't understand

you, that you were often misunderstood. And it's so

frustrating to be misunderstood, stood or feel like you're not

being heard, I think all of us have had that experience from

time to time where someone doesn't get us or we say

something, and we believe it to have been quite clear, but

someone else hears a completely different, has a different take.

And it's it causes a miscommunication, that then you

have to clean up and there's some frustration and, and even

like, you know, how did you even think that's what I said it

wasn't. But for the person with the Chiron in Gemini, it's a

really profound and pervading experience of being

misunderstood. And this person might have even been bullied,

when they were younger, or conversely, they were the ones

to do the bullying, they might have been bullied in their

family and with their siblings, or bullied their siblings. And

so as they're an adult in the world, having this you know,

sense of being misunderstood, they might either close down and

not really share their emotions at that deep level for fear of,

of those things happening again. And so they're feeling kind of

depressed and cut off from their authentic selves. And you know,

for for just not showing up not being authentic are saying what

they truly think or feel. Or conversely, in the shadow of

Chiron in Gemini, they they're perceived as being that no at

all, kind of person. And again, that's really painful when

people think you're a No at all. Because, you know, 10 out of 10

times, you really just want to share something of value and

importance to listeners, but the way it's coming across again,

it's like this not being empathetically attuned to. So to

heal that placement, it has to do with, you know, gaining some

other communication skills. And first and foremost, identifying

what you most deeply need. And it's centered around really

being heard, really being seen, you know, being valued for who

you are. And it starts by valuing yourself, valuing your

own contribution, your own thoughts, your own, what's

important to you matters, knowing, you know, at your

deepest core value and worth that what you have to say

matters. And then progressively, taking a few trusted even one

trusted person, and working on this together, and even

exercises like you know, saying something and then asking, What

did you hear? What did you hear me say? And it's a communication

skill, as you know, when couples and relationships sharing some

of your deepest needs and then checking in and saying, What did

you hear and then mirroring back, if that's accurate or not,

and kind of tweaking it till both people are really hearing

and empathetically attuning to each other? So I just think

that's a really interesting placement to work with.

Yeah, that's an I think that's a very common one, I certainly

have plenty of examples in my clientele who had been

struggling with that and, and I think that that lack of empathy

and the lack of empathy with yourself is something also that

you know, many of us maybe not even in that placement, but

beyond that are struggling with and it's one of your, you know,

kind of pillars of healing with forgiveness, this empathy. And I

wonder how do you help people to feel more empathetic with

himself?

Well, I think it starts with the work that we do Dr. Freeman that

we empathize to our clients experience. And for you

listening or watching it's, it's most simply put as putting

yourself in their shoes, suspending your own judgment,

suspending your own experience of reality, and really just

trying to feel into often I'll just close my eyes, as someone's

talking, be it a client or a friend, and just really just Try

to imagine, you know, myself, if I was having those thoughts if I

was having that experience, okay, I can see how they would

feel this way. And it's really a true just temporarily setting

aside your own paradigm and beliefs in life, to just feel

into this other person's experience, because we all make

sense in the context of what we've lived. And when you have

that ability to put yourself in someone else's life experience,

to understand why they're showing up or not showing up a

certain way. That's how you really connect through empathy.

It's like a superpower to me, it's not meaning that you're

abandoning your belief system or changing your mind. But just for

a few moments, you're actually seeing what it feels like to be

in this other person's experience. And I know that if

we did more of that, our world would be such a kinder plays

such a more collaborative place, there would be less competition,

there would be more cooperation and understanding. And so I

invite you to do that in your life today, be it with your

spouse, your partner, your friends, your clients, the

person at the grocery store, just to practice some empathetic

listening to really listen, and not be thinking of what you're

going to say next. And if you're on the spot, you can even say,

Hey, I was really deeply listening to you. So I need a

moment to gather my thoughts about this, you know, and people

will be maybe taken aback at first, but in a really positive

way, that you're actually listening, that you're, you're

asking questions and care to hear, it can really enhance and

expand all of your relationships to practice this.

And I think we can probably really learn a lot from just

feeling where other people come from, rather than just having

our own judgments. But what I wonder is the empathy with our

own self, because I think often we are so disconnected from

ourselves that we don't even feel our feelings, we don't even

have a sense of this is where I came from. Because we are, you

know, either in our own judgments with ourselves, or we

are believing that we have to be different, or we should be not

this or that. So how do you help people to get more empathetic

with himself, you know, self compassion, self empathy,

whatever you call it.

Yeah, and it's the same process is you would with another, but

you're just imagining yourself, you're really taking time to

slow down. And for some people that actually might be there,

they're so in their feelings, that it's like you're blinded by

your emotions. And we all know what that feels like. It's like

you're so in this experience of I think anger can be like that

depression can be like that anxiety can be like that, where

you're just so in the experience of it, that you lose

objectivity. And it's such a powerful experience that we

often want to just shut it down and, and maybe medicate too

soon, for instance, before going into asking some questions that

my book offers you like, what, what is happening right now for

myself? What is triggering this feeling? When have I felt this

before? Is this familiar and to slow down your reactivity by

tuning in by going deeper, or being curious about this emotion

that you're having? Like is if you're curious, like on this

journey to understand more, and it's by slowing down and being

with that feeling, instead of wanting to eradicate it,

suppress it, medicate it, drink it away, drug it away, you know,

have seek peak experiences, to kind of take you out of

yourself. And while you know, all those things can be enjoyed

in moderation. You know, it's really about leaning into first

what does this emotion want me to learn? Because it's

communication. Like you said earlier, Dr. Friedman, these

emotions are trying to get us to notice something within

ourselves. And so to take some time there can really illuminate

something that is actually going to make you happier and

healthier and feel better, if you can, if you can go there

with yourself.

Yeah, often doing exactly. The softening with ourselves. And I

just talked to a client today who was really struggling with

anxiety for a long time and in every time she felt anxiety, she

basically wanted to run away from herself. I think a lot of

people can relate to that feeling of overwhelm and it is

too much but when she learned to just soften her gaze and the

anxiety and understand more, this is actually where it comes

from. This is what triggered it. This is the child inside of me

that was obviously in that moment, wanting to please

someone and didn't get the response he hoped to get and

that created anxiety and fear of abandonment and everything

changes and that's why I find like you know, your your

placements and your Chiron effects are so helpful because

it does really pull To that, what we need to ask what we need

to look at in regards to understanding better, why we are

feeling and why we are thinking and why we are acting the way we

have been acting and so very, very helpful tool for people to

have now people can actually do the test, I think on your

website to find more specifically, their their

placement. So how do they get there? What's your website's?

Yes,

sure, my website is no law therapy.com and ol@herapy.com.

It stands for New Orleans, Los Angeles therapy. That's the two

places that I live. And I'm at Nola therapy on Instagram,

Facebook and YouTube as well if you want to follow me and reach

out and connect there. And it just simply takes having your

date of birth and place of birth to find the sign your Chiron is

in. And there's in fact a chart in the book to do that. There's

also an interactive website at Nola therapy.com. If you click

on the button that says order my book, it'll take you to the

interactive plugin where you can enter your your birth

information, you don't have to buy the book to do that. There's

actually a synopsis about the book so you can see if it's for

you some links to order as well. But you can find out your Chiron

before even buying it. And and you know, see what that's about

for you more specifically. But it's been such a good tool, Dr.

Friedman, for even in my own life, I've been a therapist over

20 years, I've been in therapy almost the same amount of time.

And I wrote the book because I felt frustrated with myself. And

with the process of like, oh my gosh, do I really have to think

about that experience from my childhood again, like, Are you

kidding me? Like do I have to keep going back to the story of

the problem. And so it was through meditation that I just

asked, you know, the universe, Universal Mind, God, Spirit,

whatever you call that energy. I just said like, what's next,

like what is beyond this. And that's when I started to hear

Chiron which I knew loosely was a reference and Carl Jung's work

about the collective unconscious. And as I felt pride

in led to research more, I saw how Chiron connects to our

patterns. When Freud talked about the repetition compulsion,

and the object relation is talked about this patterning in

our relationships that comes from our childhood template of

how we were loved or not loved enough, for example. And I

started to see these really profound connections between

this Chiron placement and psychology and spirituality. So

you know, that's where I got excited, because it's helped me

to heal my sense of value and worth, Chiron and Aries, and

then really be able to offer this to others that you can do

on your own or bring it to your therapist bring it to the person

you're working with, to just really hone in on the main area

of vulnerability that your patterns have been sourced from.

So your pattern is self worth.

It's been this sense of value and worth that just I know about

that outwardly, I've had successes and things that I

really cared about manifest come to fruition, yet, I didn't feel

like like I felt on that performance wheel, like I have

to do more, you know, it's never enough, like this constant of

achievement. And yet, I wouldn't allow myself to just delight in

the achievement and be like, oh, like, I'm enough like that, if I

never do another thing, it's plenty. And my value and worth

doesn't have to come from this constant, you know, performance

and achievement and, and offering value that it's okay to

just do nothing. And you're still valuable. You know, if

you're sitting there watching TV, or, you know, like just

being quiet with yourself, and I think a lot of people can relate

to that hamster wheel, it's often called of performance and

you just get exhausted. And for me, it's been about, you know,

feeling loved sourcing love, just from my beingness not my

doing Ness.

And so your formation that you're using is

things like, I'm enough, I'm good enough as I am. That even

in the wellness in the trip, personal transformation space

and the higher consciousness community, you know, the key to

the pursuit of healing of growth of like, oh my gosh, there's

always more like these layers to discover. And certainly that's

true. Yet on the other hand, to really balance that with a deep

sense of I'm okay just as I am. And like pausing like more

mindfulness. Mindfulness has been a wonderful practice with

meditation in my life to just really be in the moment In The

Now, and like, except without judgment, just like this

unconditional love and this presence of the moment like that

we're having that this is perfect. This is plenty. And

like, you know, to really learn to appreciate and just have

bring a little more stillness and presence to each day of my

life and, you know, appreciate the flowers, the grass, you

know, really like noticing your surroundings, even though you

might have lived in them for 1520 30 years, kind of fresh

eyes, you know, on your environments. And I'm curious

what you think about that?

Well, I can so much relate to it, because I certainly was an

overachiever all my life, based on also some core wounds of not

being told I'm good enough or smart enough or, and I think,

for me, the value of achievement got replaced by the value of

peace, really being at peace. And once I realize it feels

actually so much better to be in peace, than always having to

next you know, next hoop to jump through or next goal and next

mountain top to reach. Mate, a lot of sense to me, at some

point, I realized it's not sustainable to have another

doctor read another book, another whatever, you just have

to really realize, what is it for? What am I really looking

for? And so yeah, it's living up to my name peace men, but not

for others necessarily only, but also for myself, made a big

difference. And so I think, you know, like you said, changing

our beliefs, which is also changing our value system,

changing our preferences, is really what healing is all

about. But one thing I wanted to ask you as a last question,

there is also Chiron, obviously affecting the whole planet.

Since you know, you talked about these different time periods

where Chiron has been present. And what do you feel like is

right now or the planet dealing with? What's the global Chiron

effect that we are right now in?

Oh, that's a good question, Dr. freemen, you know, right now,

Chiron is in Aries, and it entered Aries, I think, a year

or two ago, I'd have to check that. So it'll be in Chiron will

be in Aries for the next, like, say, six years. And so that

speaks to a core wounding a vulnerability in the areas of

value and worth. And I think we've been seeing that played

out. Globally, and I'm just going to say in the way, you

know, some that countries don't take care of their own

inhabitants, I think we see that with health care, you know,

like, not being accessible affordably in the US, I can only

speak for, in my experience, but you know, I like and here in the

US veterans, the high suicide rate, the homelessness rate of

veterans, and there's not adequate services for them so

that they have housing and mental health treatment, and

such. And here, the schools in urban and rural areas, don't

have books, or some of them don't even have plumbing. And

it's like this, you know, value and worth of our own people and

really needing to strengthen that. And so you can also pull

up the birth chart of your relationship of your LLC of your

business, and find out the Chiron placement, which has been

so interesting. And therefore find out the area of

vulnerability of your business, for instance, or in your

relationship, it will help you understand whether you choose

your first date, or the date you got married, I would check both

and see which Chiron placement resonates more for kind of the

patterns, the arguments you might have, or the places you

both feel frustrated, and there might be an impasse, you often

come to, it can help really open that up, so that you have more

compassion for each other. And in your business. It might

reveal, for instance, that you need to really read contracts

more carefully if the Chiron of your business is in Libra, that

has to do with professional and personal contracts. So it can be

really illuminating to just play and enter dates, you know of

your relationship, your business and see what comes up so that

you can just have more awareness.

Absolutely. And the beauty is even if something is not totally

in the moment resonating with you, because you feel like no,

that's not my problem. These core wounds are just so in

general, affecting most of us that working on them, you will

always gain something from it just like the core wound of self

or this feeling like you know, you have to be the caretaker of

the pleaser or the core wound of anything. These are things that

we all somewhere dealing with because it's a part of the human

condition. So, don't even think like, oh, I won a Chiron

placement, just go through them all, because all of them can

really gain for you a greater sense of awareness, a greater

sense of empowerment and ultimately make you feel more

whole and complete.

I appreciate that Dr. Friedman and I've even used my own book

when last year I experienced a person that I felt abandoned by

them. And I turned to the chapter Chiron in the sign of

cancer, core wounding by abandonment, and I was like,

What did I say about coping with abandonment? And it really

helped me to go through to remember, this is what I can

tell myself, this is how I can soothe you know, my inner self,

because often it's the self soothing we need when something

happens that is unexpected or hurtful or disappointing. So I

encourage you to definitely read all of the placements because

once you've lived any life, you know, we've all experienced an

abandonment of neglect. Not being empathetically attuned to

or feeling cut off from community like where's our

tribe, Chiron in Aquarius? And so I find it really helpful to

pick up what I just need a little boost or refresher like

how do I cope with this? So hang that.

So people can find your book, I guess, everywhere. It's called

the Chiron effect. And they can find you at again Nola

therapy.com.

That's correct. And you can order it, you know, at the big

sellers like like Amazon, Barnes and noble.com. But even in your

local bookstore, if you bring them my book, since it's through

a publisher, they can order it for you from my publisher, if

you'd like to shop local, like here in New Orleans, there's

this wonderful blue Cypress bookstore and they carry my book

so even if my book isn't being carried you can ask that they

carry it which I would appreciate so much as well if

you wrote a review because the reviews help you know the work

get in front of more people. So I'd really be delighted if

people were led to review

Well, I certainly appreciated your book very much and I

certainly will continue to recommend it to people thank you

is a very beautiful well I have so much wisdom and and practical

tools which I really appreciate. Well, thank you Lisa so much for

being on good real and for bringing in this work that is

born I think from you know that beautiful meditation and

reaching out to the universe, which is ideal because I think

it aligns us with our greater purpose. So happy that you did

that.

Thank you, Dr. Friedman. This has really been a delight to

have time with you and our audience. Thank you.