1 00:00:05,083 --> 00:00:09,213 I remember a few years back when I was CEO of the MTA, probably eight years ago, 2 00:00:09,463 --> 00:00:12,933 we were looking for a way to continue to provide amazing service when it 3 00:00:12,933 --> 00:00:16,653 comes to paratransit operations, but do it in a more cost efficient manner. 4 00:00:17,223 --> 00:00:21,323 And I heard about a CEO in Florida who just started doing something 5 00:00:21,323 --> 00:00:22,633 like that, and that was Brad Miller. 6 00:00:22,963 --> 00:00:28,638 Brad is a, uh, and was CEO of the Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority, 7 00:00:28,918 --> 00:00:32,798 and he started using, this is in the Clearwater, Florida area, he started 8 00:00:32,798 --> 00:00:37,658 using these TNCs, transport networking companies, to help him do things like, 9 00:00:38,098 --> 00:00:41,248 you know, provide late night service, maybe rescue rides, first and last 10 00:00:41,248 --> 00:00:45,478 mile solution, and again, potentially supplementing paratransit service 11 00:00:45,478 --> 00:00:46,908 with customers who would opt into it. 12 00:00:48,088 --> 00:00:53,018 So, uh, the, this, the idea continued to develop, you're probably aware of 13 00:00:53,018 --> 00:00:58,428 this, and now cities across the country are using various, um, paratransit 14 00:00:58,698 --> 00:01:02,568 supplemental service through companies like Uber and Lyft and, uh, and 15 00:01:02,568 --> 00:01:07,618 even ADA service with companies like UZURV and SilverRide and others. 16 00:01:08,248 --> 00:01:12,728 So, today we're going to continue to talk about this new advent of service 17 00:01:12,728 --> 00:01:18,348 provision where transit agencies can utilize services such as Uber and Lyft 18 00:01:18,348 --> 00:01:20,518 and others to supplement their service. 19 00:01:20,558 --> 00:01:23,608 But also, there's a threat on the horizon that we'll tell you about at the end of 20 00:01:23,618 --> 00:01:25,418 the show which you may want to hear about. 21 00:01:25,418 --> 00:01:27,528 So, Brad Miller kicks off the show today. 22 00:01:27,528 --> 00:01:30,648 He is the CEO, as mentioned, of the Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority. 23 00:01:31,213 --> 00:01:34,023 He is the regional transit authority serving the Tampa Bay region on the 24 00:01:34,023 --> 00:01:38,413 west coast of Florida with more than 300 buses and 920 dedicated employees. 25 00:01:38,903 --> 00:01:43,263 We also have Dr. Judy Shanley, who is the National Director of 26 00:01:43,283 --> 00:01:47,533 Transportation, Mobility, and Youth at the National Office of Easterseals. 27 00:01:47,553 --> 00:01:50,413 The National Easterseals Society has been one of the real leaders 28 00:01:50,413 --> 00:01:51,643 in paratransit operations. 29 00:01:52,093 --> 00:01:55,293 She directs several U. S. Department of Transportation projects funded 30 00:01:55,293 --> 00:01:56,943 by the FTA and other groups. 31 00:01:57,323 --> 00:01:59,213 We also have on here Alex Elugodin. 32 00:01:59,473 --> 00:02:03,163 He is CEO of Wheeling Forward and the former Accessibility Chief of the 33 00:02:03,163 --> 00:02:05,313 largest paratransit operation in America. 34 00:02:05,313 --> 00:02:07,408 For In New York City, the New York City MTA. 35 00:02:07,778 --> 00:02:10,498 He has spent almost a decade working as an advocate and mentor 36 00:02:10,498 --> 00:02:11,708 of the disability community. 37 00:02:12,008 --> 00:02:14,978 He wrote an article in Newsweek magazine that we talked about today 38 00:02:15,258 --> 00:02:19,558 that really brought this issue to the forefront, this challenge to 39 00:02:19,558 --> 00:02:21,528 utilizing companies like Uber and Lyft. 40 00:02:21,528 --> 00:02:22,738 He'll talk about that today. 41 00:02:23,088 --> 00:02:26,618 And then we brought on Jen Shepherd who leads Uber's global transit business. 42 00:02:26,628 --> 00:02:30,558 She's a partner to cities and transit agencies With a mission of making transit 43 00:02:30,558 --> 00:02:32,178 more accessible to those who need it most. 44 00:02:32,478 --> 00:02:37,568 This is a fascinating look into how TNCs, like Uber, are used by public 45 00:02:37,568 --> 00:02:41,258 transit agencies and this potential threat that's looming on the horizon 46 00:02:41,258 --> 00:02:43,858 that came in through regulations coming out of Washington, of course. 47 00:02:44,258 --> 00:02:47,248 And she'll talk about that, as will the other guests on the show, on 48 00:02:47,248 --> 00:02:49,718 this episode of Transit Unplugged. 49 00:02:50,739 --> 00:02:54,759 Well, great to have a great panel with us today, talking about what I consider 50 00:02:54,759 --> 00:02:58,569 one of the latest and greatest trends in public transportation, and that 51 00:02:58,569 --> 00:03:02,529 is the use of TNCs, micro mobility, to assist public transit agencies 52 00:03:02,849 --> 00:03:04,299 to provide paratransit service. 53 00:03:04,299 --> 00:03:07,049 And as mentioned in the opening, we've got a great panel with us. 54 00:03:07,049 --> 00:03:08,699 One of them is a good friend of mine, Brad Miller. 55 00:03:08,699 --> 00:03:11,019 Brad and I have been buddies for well over a decade. 56 00:03:11,019 --> 00:03:15,409 And Brad, I remember back when I was CEO of MTA in Baltimore, I heard 57 00:03:15,409 --> 00:03:18,789 this guy down in Florida was doing something cool with Uber because we 58 00:03:18,789 --> 00:03:20,339 were all concerned about costs, right? 59 00:03:20,569 --> 00:03:23,499 The cost of providing paratransit service. 60 00:03:23,819 --> 00:03:24,989 Like, I can give you an example. 61 00:03:24,989 --> 00:03:28,424 At Baltimore, I had an $800 million operating budget, and I spent 100 62 00:03:28,424 --> 00:03:30,029 million of that on paratransit. 63 00:03:30,269 --> 00:03:31,529 This was eight years ago. 64 00:03:31,859 --> 00:03:35,939 And and the cost was going up at six to 8% a year, whereas my 65 00:03:35,939 --> 00:03:37,349 regular costs were going up 2%. 66 00:03:37,709 --> 00:03:39,599 So I was like, this is unsustainable. 67 00:03:39,599 --> 00:03:40,739 There has to be a solution. 68 00:03:41,029 --> 00:03:44,149 And it turned out there was, and you're the one that kind of found it for us. 69 00:03:44,149 --> 00:03:46,009 Tell us about what you did and what you're doing now. 70 00:03:46,312 --> 00:03:50,552 Well, thank you Paul, and thank you for having, me and the other great people 71 00:03:50,552 --> 00:03:51,872 that are on this podcast on this. 72 00:03:52,147 --> 00:03:53,077 On this podcast. 73 00:03:53,317 --> 00:03:54,707 Um, yeah, you're right. 74 00:03:54,707 --> 00:03:56,797 I mean, that was back in 2016. 75 00:03:56,817 --> 00:04:00,947 PSTA started off small, but we were the first agency in the country 76 00:04:00,947 --> 00:04:03,337 to have a contract with Uber. 77 00:04:03,597 --> 00:04:05,970 And, um, that was, that was a great moment. 78 00:04:05,980 --> 00:04:09,400 I don't think you and other people that heard about it probably had any idea 79 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:14,750 what was really going on with it, but just fast forward from then to now. 80 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:19,360 And, it has been a complete game changer, in my opinion, for 81 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,800 mobility in my community, down here in St. Petersburg, Florida. 82 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,660 The, of course, we started off with a first mile, last mile, kind of, program 83 00:04:26,740 --> 00:04:31,460 where people can get a discounted Uber ride to and from a bus stop. 84 00:04:32,180 --> 00:04:34,950 We extended that to late night services. 85 00:04:35,300 --> 00:04:38,140 You know, after the buses stop running, people maybe get to a job on the 86 00:04:38,140 --> 00:04:39,670 bus, but then they need to get home. 87 00:04:39,670 --> 00:04:41,590 A low income person, we have a program for that. 88 00:04:41,820 --> 00:04:44,850 Where they can catch a discounted Uber or Lyft ride. 89 00:04:45,155 --> 00:04:48,425 And then finally we received a federal, one of the first 90 00:04:48,935 --> 00:04:52,705 federal transit administration sandbox grants back in 2017. 91 00:04:52,715 --> 00:04:56,165 We were part of the first group to test whether TNCs could be 92 00:04:56,335 --> 00:04:57,945 effective for paratransit use. 93 00:04:58,145 --> 00:05:03,285 And so we launched that and oh my gosh that has just been such a huge... 94 00:05:03,875 --> 00:05:08,740 I think a very, very positive thing for people with disabilities in our, 95 00:05:09,150 --> 00:05:15,150 in our county, the mobility of being able to get a ride like, like you and 96 00:05:15,150 --> 00:05:17,080 I can, Paul, on a moment's notice. 97 00:05:17,260 --> 00:05:20,680 We, we of course operate our traditional paratransit, we provide our regular 98 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,740 paratransit options, and then we provide what we call, down here, Mobility On 99 00:05:24,740 --> 00:05:28,530 Demand, essentially that you can get a real time ride, when you need it. 100 00:05:28,790 --> 00:05:32,130 And so people might take, schedule a paratransit ride to the doctor, 101 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,180 but, you know, no one knows when their doctor is going to actually see 102 00:05:34,180 --> 00:05:35,400 them because you might wait forever. 103 00:05:35,580 --> 00:05:37,710 So, they'll, I'll just call you when I'm done. 104 00:05:37,860 --> 00:05:39,270 And then, then they get a ride home. 105 00:05:39,410 --> 00:05:43,070 Or, hey, I don't, I don't need paratransit just for medical appointments. 106 00:05:43,110 --> 00:05:44,300 I can go to the movies. 107 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,220 I can go to Applebee's and go to lunch with my daughter. 108 00:05:48,220 --> 00:05:50,050 Or, I can just be a normal person. 109 00:05:50,060 --> 00:05:51,930 I've had many people in the transit industry. 110 00:05:52,215 --> 00:05:56,665 Say, Brad, what you guys are doing down there is, people in the disability 111 00:05:56,665 --> 00:06:00,335 community are saying you're actually treating us like everybody else. 112 00:06:00,545 --> 00:06:04,005 Giving us the mobility that everybody else already has and it's really been 113 00:06:04,185 --> 00:06:08,795 gratifying to me in my career to just see the benefit that this has provided. 114 00:06:08,970 --> 00:06:12,720 Now, we're on this podcast today because there is a threat to that, 115 00:06:12,770 --> 00:06:16,790 to that great mobility that we are, partnering with our TNCs with. 116 00:06:17,220 --> 00:06:22,870 The federal government, issued a, a proposed change to the rules, governing, 117 00:06:23,210 --> 00:06:27,310 the use of TNCs by transit agencies at the very end of the Biden administration 118 00:06:27,570 --> 00:06:31,560 and on December 30th is when it was published in the Federal Register. 119 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:35,600 And so now, we're We're coming into this kind of, question period, with 120 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,630 the new Administration coming in, are they going to enact these rules? 121 00:06:38,790 --> 00:06:41,180 there is a, public comment period going on. 122 00:06:41,460 --> 00:06:45,170 Essentially what would happen is the federal government would prohibit, 123 00:06:45,530 --> 00:06:49,500 PSTA, my agency, or any transit agency in the country from contracting, 124 00:06:50,300 --> 00:06:52,490 essentially contracting with a TNC. 125 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:58,510 And that would, that would force me and hundreds of other cities to cancel 126 00:06:58,550 --> 00:07:00,400 our, these great mobility programs. 127 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,870 And so that's why we're, we're trying to get the word out about this and 128 00:07:03,870 --> 00:07:05,857 get, get a good reaction from people. 129 00:07:06,157 --> 00:07:07,007 That's something, Brad. 130 00:07:07,317 --> 00:07:08,597 Well, let's jump over to you, Judy. 131 00:07:08,597 --> 00:07:11,027 I've always, admired the National Easterseals Society. 132 00:07:11,027 --> 00:07:13,087 You all have been really, leaders in this industry. 133 00:07:13,107 --> 00:07:17,237 I remember back when I started, like, in the late 1980s in this industry, running 134 00:07:17,237 --> 00:07:18,767 a small bus system here in the county. 135 00:07:19,047 --> 00:07:22,417 We were always getting our training programs from the National Easterseals 136 00:07:22,437 --> 00:07:25,627 Society about how to train our drivers, et cetera, to be, you know, 137 00:07:25,627 --> 00:07:26,797 to help people with disabilities. 138 00:07:26,797 --> 00:07:29,294 And now you're the, you're the National Director of Transportation 139 00:07:29,294 --> 00:07:31,934 and Mobility and Youth, there at the National Office of Easterseals. 140 00:07:31,954 --> 00:07:35,434 Tell us about, you know, what you're all's role is in this whole 141 00:07:35,454 --> 00:07:36,994 issue and where you're at on it. 142 00:07:37,294 --> 00:07:39,424 Sure, thank you and thank you for having me. 143 00:07:39,424 --> 00:07:42,334 I feel very privileged to be part of this panel. 144 00:07:42,624 --> 00:07:45,844 Easterseals has been a leader in this space for over a hundred years. 145 00:07:45,844 --> 00:07:49,914 We were actually at the table when the provisions in the Americans 146 00:07:49,914 --> 00:07:54,434 with Disabilities Act came to be around transportation opportunities 147 00:07:54,454 --> 00:07:58,134 and paratransit services for individuals with disabilities. 148 00:07:58,134 --> 00:08:03,034 And I think, the innovations that we've seen in the transportation 149 00:08:03,044 --> 00:08:06,464 sector, and particularly with paratransit have been phenomenal. 150 00:08:06,804 --> 00:08:12,324 The use of transportation network companies and other modes to to complement 151 00:08:12,544 --> 00:08:18,904 existing services has been amazing and essentially transportation and paratransit 152 00:08:18,904 --> 00:08:23,884 options and the innovation with TNCs has created opportunities for people. 153 00:08:24,294 --> 00:08:29,574 The Americans with Disabilities Act suggests that or requires mandates that 154 00:08:29,574 --> 00:08:34,879 the paratransit service be comparable to a fixed route service, but often it's 155 00:08:34,889 --> 00:08:36,959 not comparable to fixed route service. 156 00:08:36,959 --> 00:08:41,489 And it doesn't give riders, it doesn't give people with disabilities who 157 00:08:41,489 --> 00:08:44,029 we want to be included in society. 158 00:08:44,029 --> 00:08:47,649 We want people to access jobs and education and health care. 159 00:08:47,839 --> 00:08:51,859 It doesn't give them the same opportunity as Brad said, as you and me. 160 00:08:52,189 --> 00:08:57,659 And so I think thinking innovatively and creatively about the ways that people 161 00:08:57,659 --> 00:09:03,149 with disabilities can access services and community settings is really critical. 162 00:09:03,159 --> 00:09:06,189 And paratransit has been important to that effort. 163 00:09:06,209 --> 00:09:10,429 And now the whole innovation in terms of paratransit has been important. 164 00:09:10,469 --> 00:09:15,339 And, you know, what's going on in terms of the, the, the, changing, 165 00:09:15,849 --> 00:09:20,549 legislation could potentially compromise the ability of people to be integrated 166 00:09:20,549 --> 00:09:22,159 and included in their communities. 167 00:09:22,159 --> 00:09:26,709 So, yeah, Easterseals is excited to be part of this conversation. 168 00:09:26,709 --> 00:09:27,559 So thanks. 169 00:09:27,769 --> 00:09:28,419 Thank you, Judy. 170 00:09:28,419 --> 00:09:28,929 That's great. 171 00:09:29,229 --> 00:09:33,529 And Alex, you actually just wrote an article in Newsweek magazine dude. 172 00:09:33,529 --> 00:09:36,919 Big time, uh, that I, that I happened to read yesterday, uh, 173 00:09:36,939 --> 00:09:38,509 which really framed this issue well. 174 00:09:38,509 --> 00:09:41,659 Tell us a little bit about your background, what got you, you 175 00:09:41,659 --> 00:09:42,859 know, interested in this issue. 176 00:09:42,859 --> 00:09:45,839 Obviously, you've got a personal, connection to it because you use the 177 00:09:45,839 --> 00:09:48,819 services and, and you're an attorney and so you've been involved in a lot of this. 178 00:09:48,819 --> 00:09:51,079 Talk to us about you, the group you formed, and what your 179 00:09:51,079 --> 00:09:52,419 thoughts are on this whole topic. 180 00:09:52,722 --> 00:09:53,272 Absolutely. 181 00:09:53,282 --> 00:09:53,852 Thanks so much. 182 00:09:53,852 --> 00:09:57,139 I mean, I've got a little bit of, uh, career background in this. 183 00:09:57,139 --> 00:10:01,184 I mean, I was originally the accessibility program manager leading, accessibility 184 00:10:01,184 --> 00:10:07,304 initiatives at the New York City Taxi Limousine Commission back around 2015. 185 00:10:07,464 --> 00:10:12,879 And at that time, we were working with Uber, to create, the wheelchair accessible 186 00:10:12,879 --> 00:10:16,339 service model, for their services generally, not just paratransit in New 187 00:10:16,339 --> 00:10:21,309 York City, and work a lot on kind of taxi and integration issues for accessibility. 188 00:10:21,429 --> 00:10:24,549 Later on, I served as the Head of accessibility, Accessibility 189 00:10:24,549 --> 00:10:26,969 Chief at MTA New York City Transit. 190 00:10:27,439 --> 00:10:31,209 And, you know, one thing that, I mean, I always see myself a little bit as a 191 00:10:31,219 --> 00:10:36,726 disability crusader in terms of policies and causes, related to paratransit, but 192 00:10:36,726 --> 00:10:39,026 even taking TNCs aside for half a second. 193 00:10:39,329 --> 00:10:41,979 One thing that we did at my time at the MTA was. 194 00:10:42,379 --> 00:10:46,494 The service, when you think about paratransit back in the 90s, it's the 195 00:10:46,494 --> 00:10:51,114 little mini buses driving around counties and cities and providing that service. 196 00:10:51,354 --> 00:10:54,994 And that service was traditionally, that's how it started. 197 00:10:55,184 --> 00:10:58,534 And you know, probably fits better under an FTA type of model. 198 00:10:58,534 --> 00:11:01,564 There are mini buses, you know, mini versions of true city buses. 199 00:11:02,054 --> 00:11:06,764 And traditionally, even at New York City MTA, the largest paratransit provider 200 00:11:06,764 --> 00:11:12,724 in the country, 50 to 70 to 80 percent of trips back in the teens, we're 201 00:11:12,724 --> 00:11:14,994 being fulfilled by those, minibuses. 202 00:11:15,291 --> 00:11:18,941 You know, during my time, something that I started was like, look, we have such 203 00:11:18,941 --> 00:11:23,811 an, capacity and increase over, whether it's yellow taxis, TNCs, other kinds 204 00:11:23,811 --> 00:11:26,011 of vehicles, why are we not using them? 205 00:11:26,011 --> 00:11:26,981 They're more nimble. 206 00:11:27,211 --> 00:11:30,741 They don't have to go on a manifest route that, you know, somebody's five 207 00:11:30,741 --> 00:11:34,341 minutes late, the next person's two hours late, you know, all this kind of stuff. 208 00:11:34,341 --> 00:11:38,981 And by the time I actually left the MTA, the paratransit service as it 209 00:11:38,981 --> 00:11:44,131 existed, you know, was doing about 70 percent of trips via taxi or other types 210 00:11:44,131 --> 00:11:45,791 of services that weren't minibuses. 211 00:11:46,211 --> 00:11:50,391 So this is the beginning of the innovation, you know, and then it kind 212 00:11:50,391 --> 00:11:54,411 of follows through to the next steps and you start thinking about TNCs and Uber. 213 00:11:54,671 --> 00:11:58,241 I mean, Uber is doing in their general service, standard service, 214 00:11:58,311 --> 00:12:01,231 billions of trips, not millions, billions of trips a year. 215 00:12:01,631 --> 00:12:06,011 completely have modernized this, everybody knows this, and slowly there 216 00:12:06,021 --> 00:12:12,401 has been a nice ongoing, integration into transit services, both public transit 217 00:12:12,401 --> 00:12:16,521 and microtransit, paratransit, you know, agencies are getting comfortable 218 00:12:16,521 --> 00:12:20,291 with Uber, getting, you know, it takes the government and transit 219 00:12:20,291 --> 00:12:21,351 regulators a little bit more time. 220 00:12:21,351 --> 00:12:23,966 There's a little bit of a This is how we've always done it, that 221 00:12:23,966 --> 00:12:27,636 always gets stuck in an agency, but we've seen tremendous growth. 222 00:12:27,646 --> 00:12:31,416 It's not, not just the dynamic routing and the capacity where there 223 00:12:31,416 --> 00:12:32,986 are Uber drivers everywhere, right? 224 00:12:32,986 --> 00:12:36,386 So you don't have to send a driver from one part of New York City to another, 225 00:12:36,736 --> 00:12:40,926 but the flexibility, the routing, you know, the fact that you don't 226 00:12:40,926 --> 00:12:42,576 have to do it 24 hours in advance. 227 00:12:42,841 --> 00:12:46,651 All things that are completely life changing, all things that are peers 228 00:12:46,681 --> 00:12:50,561 in the non disabled, you know, those without disabilities have access to, and 229 00:12:50,561 --> 00:12:52,351 this is what's been kind of going on. 230 00:12:52,891 --> 00:12:59,881 And, you know, you come to a point in a regulatory situation here where 231 00:13:00,031 --> 00:13:03,981 the FTA rules, as they've always been imagined, were always more about true 232 00:13:03,981 --> 00:13:09,191 buses, true trains, and, you know, things like that, and, it needs to change. 233 00:13:09,191 --> 00:13:09,961 It's antiquated. 234 00:13:10,701 --> 00:13:11,941 We're no longer living in that. 235 00:13:11,941 --> 00:13:15,421 Everybody knows that the best way, yes, if there's a fixed route service 236 00:13:15,421 --> 00:13:18,981 and it's great and it's accessible, that there are capacity reasons. 237 00:13:18,991 --> 00:13:20,901 There's especially in New York City. 238 00:13:20,901 --> 00:13:23,061 I mean, there are 500 subway stations in New York City. 239 00:13:23,481 --> 00:13:23,981 So we get it. 240 00:13:24,031 --> 00:13:28,326 But even New York City sometimes, You need a different type of model 241 00:13:28,346 --> 00:13:31,206 to kind of, get you the rest of the way or help you, especially when you 242 00:13:31,206 --> 00:13:32,906 have an inaccessible transit system. 243 00:13:33,306 --> 00:13:37,886 And, you know, we've come to an impasse where the, where the regulator is 244 00:13:37,886 --> 00:13:43,126 ultimately, doubling down a little bit on times, times of the past and something 245 00:13:43,126 --> 00:13:47,816 that doesn't work where we really need, innovative thinking to allow companies 246 00:13:47,816 --> 00:13:50,196 like Uber to transform paratransit. 247 00:13:50,466 --> 00:13:52,746 It's an equity issue to really bring. 248 00:13:53,272 --> 00:13:56,642 The ADA says the word comparable, the things that have been going 249 00:13:56,642 --> 00:13:59,602 on in paratransit for 30 years have not delivered comparable. 250 00:13:59,942 --> 00:14:03,312 And this is what's next, and it's good for business, it's good for 251 00:14:03,322 --> 00:14:06,222 people, because people will be working, there'll be economy, there'll 252 00:14:06,222 --> 00:14:07,642 be taxes, there'll be more trips. 253 00:14:08,032 --> 00:14:11,122 It's good for the community, it's good for transit agencies, it's a win win. 254 00:14:11,212 --> 00:14:13,972 We just need our regulators to kind of get on board. 255 00:14:14,272 --> 00:14:16,322 So, what exactly is the regulation? 256 00:14:16,322 --> 00:14:17,632 What is being proposed? 257 00:14:17,984 --> 00:14:27,271 So since 2001, paratransit services or all, as Alex mentioned, all 258 00:14:27,271 --> 00:14:33,941 transit drivers since the 1990s have required to be part of a random drug 259 00:14:33,941 --> 00:14:39,221 testing pool, to be bus drivers, train drivers, ferry drivers, whatever, 260 00:14:39,471 --> 00:14:41,361 have been Everybody knows this. 261 00:14:41,361 --> 00:14:43,631 I mean, I know, Paul, you certainly know this from your time. 262 00:14:43,901 --> 00:14:46,561 drug testing is part of our business, out of our traditional business. 263 00:14:46,561 --> 00:14:49,501 All my bus drivers at my agency are drug tested. 264 00:14:50,011 --> 00:14:57,121 In 2001, the FTA, issued a, a, rule that said, well, a lot of transit systems 265 00:14:57,121 --> 00:15:01,021 are using taxis back then, for, to complement their paratransit, to add, 266 00:15:01,021 --> 00:15:02,614 uh, at times and things like that. 267 00:15:02,914 --> 00:15:07,104 It became unworkable to, have taxi companies be drug tested, so they issued 268 00:15:07,134 --> 00:15:09,924 a, what they call a, the taxi exemption. 269 00:15:10,584 --> 00:15:17,094 If the rider, not the transit system, if the rider chose the taxi cab company back 270 00:15:17,094 --> 00:15:22,531 then that they would ride in, FTA said that those taxi companies were exempt 271 00:15:22,551 --> 00:15:25,741 from the drug and alcohol policy rules. 272 00:15:26,151 --> 00:15:30,036 So if there, if there was a rider choice, transit agencies would give 273 00:15:30,036 --> 00:15:33,016 a choice to the customers of a couple of different cab companies to get 274 00:15:33,016 --> 00:15:37,506 a ride from, that they, those cab companies did not need to be, exempt. 275 00:15:37,626 --> 00:15:41,906 Then Uber and Lyft weren't even created back in 2001, they didn't exist, right? 276 00:15:41,976 --> 00:15:44,826 When all these rules that are now being followed, as Alex was 277 00:15:44,826 --> 00:15:47,886 saying, they're just very outdated, because Uber didn't even exist. 278 00:15:48,176 --> 00:15:53,686 Ten years ago, Uber about, Uber was created, and FTA shortly came 279 00:15:53,686 --> 00:15:57,616 out with a, A statement that said, okay, the taxi exemption from 280 00:15:57,616 --> 00:15:59,406 2001 applied to Uber and Lyft. 281 00:15:59,586 --> 00:16:00,726 they would just treat it the same. 282 00:16:00,896 --> 00:16:04,506 As long as there's a choice, it's the rider's choice, not, not Brad's 283 00:16:04,506 --> 00:16:08,936 choice, not the agency's choice, but the rider's choice, they can be exempt. 284 00:16:09,436 --> 00:16:11,626 Well December 30th, 2024. 285 00:16:11,927 --> 00:16:15,917 That, that whole, that whole, you know, system was eliminated, is 286 00:16:15,927 --> 00:16:18,207 proposed to be eliminated by the FTA. 287 00:16:18,207 --> 00:16:18,937 So what are they saying? 288 00:16:18,947 --> 00:16:22,757 They're saying now that taxi drivers and Uber have to be drug tested to be 289 00:16:23,087 --> 00:16:24,977 able to be used by a transit agency? 290 00:16:25,617 --> 00:16:29,477 Yes, therefore, the way they've done that is they've said, transit agencies are 291 00:16:29,477 --> 00:16:35,077 prohibited from contracting with Uber, Lyft, taxi, any, any, any service provider 292 00:16:35,297 --> 00:16:37,927 that does not have, drug tested drivers. 293 00:16:38,037 --> 00:16:43,747 And that obviously would be a huge change to what, what has happened. 294 00:16:44,057 --> 00:16:47,517 And as a transit agency, you know, I, I want to, I know this is a transit podcast, 295 00:16:47,517 --> 00:16:52,447 so, I wanted to say for, to my peers and colleagues, I, I try to follow the rules. 296 00:16:52,507 --> 00:16:57,337 I, I, I try to, be a good, manager and follow the FTA. 297 00:16:57,367 --> 00:16:58,087 I love FTA. 298 00:16:58,117 --> 00:17:01,067 I love them 28 million dollars for buses and things like that, you 299 00:17:01,067 --> 00:17:06,767 know, so I, I get it that they are, they, they have the law passed by 300 00:17:06,767 --> 00:17:09,037 Congress, to drug test transit drivers. 301 00:17:09,337 --> 00:17:12,537 I understand where they're, they're kind of in a pickle here, but, we, 302 00:17:12,537 --> 00:17:15,747 we have tried to build our programs all up, and I know transit systems 303 00:17:15,747 --> 00:17:18,867 across the country have done the same thing, following these rules, and 304 00:17:18,867 --> 00:17:20,824 then just to kind of change the game. 305 00:17:21,037 --> 00:17:23,047 Immediately, is, is a real problem. 306 00:17:23,351 --> 00:17:25,301 Can I, can I add something to what Brad said? 307 00:17:25,301 --> 00:17:28,321 I mean, I just want to clarify, I know like somebody may be listening 308 00:17:28,321 --> 00:17:31,351 and they hear Oh, get rid of drug and alcohol testing, like what, 309 00:17:31,351 --> 00:17:33,431 oh, that, why would we do that? 310 00:17:33,481 --> 00:17:34,231 That sounds bad. 311 00:17:34,601 --> 00:17:37,851 So, I'm just going to get a little in the weeds here because explaining 312 00:17:37,851 --> 00:17:43,707 this issue is a little tough, but the FTA and federal rules have a random 313 00:17:43,717 --> 00:17:45,797 drug and alcohol testing standard. 314 00:17:46,357 --> 00:17:50,227 This means that if you're part of a program like this, you can get, 315 00:17:50,247 --> 00:17:52,537 you know, your pager, you can get a text message on your phone, you 316 00:17:52,537 --> 00:17:54,087 gotta go get drug tested right now. 317 00:17:54,487 --> 00:17:56,487 You know, there's all kinds of other. 318 00:17:56,772 --> 00:18:02,352 You know, very significant aspects and burdens to being part of that program. 319 00:18:02,352 --> 00:18:04,982 That's what airline pilots do, Amtrak engineers, you 320 00:18:04,982 --> 00:18:06,622 know, full time bus drivers. 321 00:18:06,622 --> 00:18:10,442 These are full time transit operators, you know, carrying transit of, you 322 00:18:10,442 --> 00:18:12,482 know, 10, 20, 30, hundreds of people. 323 00:18:12,482 --> 00:18:16,932 And there's all kinds of documentation and all kinds of requirements. 324 00:18:17,382 --> 00:18:21,667 Look, when you talk about Uber and TNCs, it's a completely different world. 325 00:18:21,667 --> 00:18:24,677 It's the gig transportation economy, you know, these drivers doing a couple, 326 00:18:24,937 --> 00:18:27,447 I'm sure they're averaging less than five trips a week, you know, I don't 327 00:18:27,447 --> 00:18:30,847 even know what the numbers are, but it's some small number, you know, and 328 00:18:30,847 --> 00:18:34,337 it, and it, and it's probably not that they don't want to do it, it's just, 329 00:18:34,437 --> 00:18:37,687 to sign up for that, there's a cost, there's an expense, they have other 330 00:18:37,687 --> 00:18:40,912 jobs, What are they going to tell their other boss that if you got to leave, you 331 00:18:40,912 --> 00:18:42,392 know, it just doesn't make any sense. 332 00:18:42,932 --> 00:18:47,302 So this isn't just pre employment that FTA is requiring, this is like the 333 00:18:47,302 --> 00:18:51,052 whole, the full enchilada or whatever they say, how you got to do all the 334 00:18:51,222 --> 00:18:53,579 random and dude, that's interesting. 335 00:18:53,579 --> 00:18:54,469 What do you think of that, Judy? 336 00:18:54,499 --> 00:18:56,629 What's your thoughts on all this from the National Easterseals? 337 00:18:56,929 --> 00:19:02,189 I think it's, it impacts upon the availability of rides for 338 00:19:02,329 --> 00:19:08,822 me, for the individuals with disabilities that we serve, and It's 339 00:19:08,832 --> 00:19:10,552 missing opportunities for people. 340 00:19:10,552 --> 00:19:15,942 We often hear of, the paratransit argument about, it's so costly. 341 00:19:15,942 --> 00:19:16,742 It's so costly. 342 00:19:16,742 --> 00:19:22,462 And a lot of entities talk about these innovations as a cost effective benefit, 343 00:19:22,672 --> 00:19:24,522 but I think it's more than cost. 344 00:19:24,902 --> 00:19:29,562 The community would be missing out on a viable pool of people as employees. 345 00:19:29,802 --> 00:19:31,572 health care agencies wouldn't be able to. 346 00:19:32,407 --> 00:19:36,047 Provide health care services because people couldn't get there and therefore 347 00:19:36,567 --> 00:19:40,937 people would be in the community and, and not be able to work and 348 00:19:41,147 --> 00:19:43,347 participate in society like we all do. 349 00:19:43,347 --> 00:19:47,907 So, I think the community costs of this, the community benefit of not having 350 00:19:47,907 --> 00:19:52,247 people because they can't get to where they need to go is a really critical 351 00:19:52,247 --> 00:19:55,337 piece and it, it's a missed, I have. 352 00:19:55,987 --> 00:19:56,907 No choice. 353 00:19:57,127 --> 00:20:00,677 If I have less choice in the transportation modes that I 354 00:20:00,687 --> 00:20:04,597 choose, that's going to limit me in being part of a community. 355 00:20:04,597 --> 00:20:09,617 And that's what I'm concerned about and feel that is one of the biggest impacts 356 00:20:09,617 --> 00:20:11,767 about this, this regulatory change. 357 00:20:12,064 --> 00:20:13,974 So, we do have with us, Jen Shepard. 358 00:20:14,234 --> 00:20:17,464 Jen is, Head of Uber's Global Transit business. 359 00:20:17,464 --> 00:20:19,964 So, you're the right person to be talking to here, Jen. 360 00:20:20,214 --> 00:20:21,654 Thanks for joining us on the show today. 361 00:20:22,264 --> 00:20:22,954 Absolutely. 362 00:20:22,964 --> 00:20:23,934 Thanks for having me. 363 00:20:24,064 --> 00:20:24,384 Yeah. 364 00:20:24,564 --> 00:20:25,344 So, alright. 365 00:20:25,354 --> 00:20:26,874 You've heard the issue here. 366 00:20:27,084 --> 00:20:28,534 what's going to be Uber's response? 367 00:20:28,534 --> 00:20:32,624 Let's say the, the new Administration, the Trump Administration, says, yes, 368 00:20:32,654 --> 00:20:35,714 we're going to agree with what the Biden administration said, you know, 369 00:20:35,824 --> 00:20:39,514 on the last day of the year, last year, we're going to require all these Uber 370 00:20:39,514 --> 00:20:41,064 and taxi drivers to get drug tested. 371 00:20:41,064 --> 00:20:41,984 What are you guys going to do? 372 00:20:42,281 --> 00:20:44,001 Yes, well, first off, I hope that's not the case. 373 00:20:44,041 --> 00:20:46,251 I very much agree with the panelists we have here. 374 00:20:47,481 --> 00:20:49,041 So just laying some foundations here. 375 00:20:49,081 --> 00:20:52,061 Uber, as Alex mentioned, is a very large platform. 376 00:20:52,271 --> 00:20:53,591 We do billions of trips. 377 00:20:53,591 --> 00:20:56,651 In 2023, it was like 9 billion trips globally. 378 00:20:56,681 --> 00:21:00,541 We're highly regulated, built with safety in mind to provide access to 379 00:21:00,541 --> 00:21:02,931 reliable mobility service in our markets. 380 00:21:03,234 --> 00:21:06,444 Second, we're not a dedicated transit operator, as I think 381 00:21:06,454 --> 00:21:07,764 everyone has been talking about. 382 00:21:07,764 --> 00:21:12,574 We are different than the folks that drive the dedicated buses and so forth. 383 00:21:12,874 --> 00:21:16,994 we fill in for the mobility managers like Brad and Brad's 384 00:21:17,004 --> 00:21:18,404 team where they need it most. 385 00:21:18,414 --> 00:21:21,394 So it could be transit deserts, it could be paratransit same day. 386 00:21:21,544 --> 00:21:25,624 We're not dedicated here and frankly inside Uber, our transit 387 00:21:25,624 --> 00:21:27,574 business is quite small to us. 388 00:21:28,164 --> 00:21:31,274 We do this because we think it's the right thing to do and we think it's the 389 00:21:31,274 --> 00:21:32,814 right thing to do for our communities. 390 00:21:33,114 --> 00:21:37,384 Third, I'll say the product we use for transit is the same product 391 00:21:37,394 --> 00:21:39,714 you and me would use as consumers. 392 00:21:39,894 --> 00:21:44,494 So you, Paul, if you order a ride, you get the exact same product as what we use 393 00:21:44,504 --> 00:21:46,314 for these transit programs in many cases. 394 00:21:46,494 --> 00:21:50,964 The driver never even knows that they're riding as part of a transit program. 395 00:21:51,174 --> 00:21:51,524 They don't know. 396 00:21:51,524 --> 00:21:51,944 Oh, is that right? 397 00:21:51,994 --> 00:21:52,674 I didn't know that. 398 00:21:52,944 --> 00:21:55,224 Yes, they don't know who's paying for the trip. 399 00:21:55,424 --> 00:21:58,324 and, and we just, we provide the same level of service to these 400 00:21:58,324 --> 00:22:01,914 opt in programs where the riders really want that level of service. 401 00:22:01,924 --> 00:22:04,754 So they're getting the exact same service as anyone else. 402 00:22:05,204 --> 00:22:05,894 That's correct. 403 00:22:05,954 --> 00:22:06,554 That's correct. 404 00:22:06,654 --> 00:22:09,444 So it is commensurate, kind of the spirit of the law, right? 405 00:22:09,444 --> 00:22:10,144 Or the word of the law. 406 00:22:10,144 --> 00:22:10,454 Yeah. 407 00:22:10,991 --> 00:22:11,111 Yeah. 408 00:22:11,111 --> 00:22:11,961 Yeah, exactly. 409 00:22:11,961 --> 00:22:15,081 And we don't force these programs on anyone in like Brad's program. 410 00:22:15,081 --> 00:22:16,991 It's all voluntary opt in. 411 00:22:17,141 --> 00:22:21,281 and, and so we believe we're offering the service for the folks who really want it. 412 00:22:21,611 --> 00:22:25,326 We've, we've looked at our transit data, our program data, and And what 413 00:22:25,326 --> 00:22:29,406 we found is that it's true what Alex mentioned drivers on our program only 414 00:22:29,416 --> 00:22:32,026 incidentally complete these transit trips. 415 00:22:32,026 --> 00:22:34,616 And so what, what do I mean by that incidental? 416 00:22:34,876 --> 00:22:39,306 I mean that, in one large city that we've looked at in the last 60 days, 417 00:22:39,606 --> 00:22:44,816 Over 90 percent of drivers who drove for that transit program drove one 418 00:22:44,826 --> 00:22:47,296 or two trips in the last 60 days. 419 00:22:47,596 --> 00:22:50,996 Out of probably hundreds of trips that they did in those 60 days, 420 00:22:51,146 --> 00:22:54,856 they literally drove only one or two trips as part of the transit program. 421 00:22:55,036 --> 00:22:56,316 They don't know who's paying for it. 422 00:22:56,651 --> 00:23:00,101 It's the same product that the consumer would get, and so it doesn't make 423 00:23:00,101 --> 00:23:04,701 practical sense to really ask these drivers to do testing over and above 424 00:23:04,811 --> 00:23:08,961 what is already required for them to do to be able to operate, you know, their 425 00:23:08,961 --> 00:23:10,961 business as part of our markets today. 426 00:23:11,351 --> 00:23:14,846 and then, and lastly, to answer your question, So if this policy is 427 00:23:14,846 --> 00:23:20,286 formalized as proposed, unfortunately, we will likely ramp down many of our 428 00:23:20,286 --> 00:23:23,176 transit programs in collaboration with the agencies, of course. 429 00:23:23,466 --> 00:23:25,506 It'll be very sad for us. 430 00:23:25,546 --> 00:23:29,236 Local communities will likely lose access to the benefits that we get. 431 00:23:29,706 --> 00:23:30,276 That's something. 432 00:23:30,746 --> 00:23:33,276 Well, can I ask you a tough follow up question? 433 00:23:33,746 --> 00:23:33,946 Yeah. 434 00:23:34,406 --> 00:23:34,826 All right. 435 00:23:35,036 --> 00:23:38,971 So, I mean, let me, let me put on the, uh, You know, the other hat, right? 436 00:23:38,971 --> 00:23:40,601 So, isn't this about safety? 437 00:23:41,051 --> 00:23:44,961 You know, don't, why is drug and alcohol testing not a good thing, Jen? 438 00:23:45,257 --> 00:23:45,627 Yeah. 439 00:23:45,937 --> 00:23:49,367 So, I want to say, so safety is very, very important to Uber. 440 00:23:49,657 --> 00:23:53,747 So, it, Stand For Safety is actually one of our core Uber company values. 441 00:23:53,997 --> 00:23:57,007 and we do a lot to ensure safety on the platform. 442 00:23:57,007 --> 00:24:00,987 So, technology, policy enforcement, customer support, they all help to 443 00:24:00,987 --> 00:24:02,937 create safer environments for our users. 444 00:24:03,177 --> 00:24:07,137 Our drivers must undergo driving and criminal background screening, 445 00:24:07,307 --> 00:24:11,207 have proper documentation, agree to our community guidelines, which do 446 00:24:11,227 --> 00:24:15,447 include a zero tolerance policy for discrimination and drug and alcohol use. 447 00:24:15,627 --> 00:24:18,437 We have lots of great tools that we use from a technology 448 00:24:18,437 --> 00:24:21,177 perspective, real time GPS tracking. 449 00:24:21,332 --> 00:24:26,962 Sharing ride status with others, emergency assistance button, real time driver 450 00:24:26,962 --> 00:24:32,612 identity check, safety support team 24 7, and then the rating system as well. 451 00:24:32,752 --> 00:24:37,582 We publish an online safety report available to anyone and we show, 452 00:24:37,592 --> 00:24:41,602 we continue to show critical safety incidents are very rare on our platform. 453 00:24:41,802 --> 00:24:46,622 In fact, our most recent, um, report had 99. 454 00:24:46,672 --> 00:24:50,082 9998 percent of trips concluded without any critical safety incident. 455 00:24:50,232 --> 00:24:53,342 99. 9 percent without any safety incidents at all. 456 00:24:53,642 --> 00:24:56,482 That might be better than most transit agencies, to be honest with you, 457 00:24:56,752 --> 00:24:57,942 that's a pretty good number there. 458 00:24:58,242 --> 00:25:02,662 well, we, we are, yes, we, we disclose it publicly, and then from an operational 459 00:25:02,662 --> 00:25:05,672 perspective I mentioned before, but our transit programs are always opt in. 460 00:25:05,852 --> 00:25:09,132 So if a customer is not comfortable with the level of service we provide, the 461 00:25:09,132 --> 00:25:11,222 agency provides alternatives for them. 462 00:25:11,472 --> 00:25:16,592 so creating these compliance burdens, which we would clarify as the FTA's 463 00:25:16,592 --> 00:25:21,412 proposed policy update, does likely, point to Uber ending our transit partnership. 464 00:25:21,412 --> 00:25:23,222 So, in my mind, that's not a good thing. 465 00:25:23,502 --> 00:25:29,122 lastly, I will say, I was very curious last night, poking around the federal 466 00:25:29,122 --> 00:25:35,922 register, and I noticed in 2018, there was a federal rule that allowed TNCs 467 00:25:36,222 --> 00:25:39,462 to be used for federal work travel. 468 00:25:39,632 --> 00:25:44,042 So for employees of the federal government to use TNCs and get reimbursed for it. 469 00:25:44,339 --> 00:25:50,109 And so my question then is, if TNCs are good enough for federal employees 470 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,769 to use for their work travel, why are they not good enough for the folks 471 00:25:53,769 --> 00:25:56,929 in our community who need it most as part of these transit programs? 472 00:25:57,249 --> 00:25:57,759 Thanks, Jen. 473 00:25:57,759 --> 00:25:59,229 That's, that's, very interesting. 474 00:25:59,289 --> 00:26:01,789 And that last piece you brought up is also interesting. 475 00:26:01,789 --> 00:26:04,159 So let me just go back to you, Brad, on the transit side, because this 476 00:26:04,159 --> 00:26:05,729 is a transit podcast, generally. 477 00:26:06,029 --> 00:26:08,939 What's it, so Jen said, if they, if this rule goes through, 478 00:26:09,289 --> 00:26:10,499 we're, we're ramping down. 479 00:26:10,499 --> 00:26:12,359 What's that going to mean to you and your customers? 480 00:26:12,652 --> 00:26:19,062 It's going to have a major impact, to a lot of thousands of people in my county. 481 00:26:19,482 --> 00:26:23,022 I'm personally, you know, I'm a transit CEO, so what I'm most worried 482 00:26:23,022 --> 00:26:27,492 about is like all those fine, uh, people are going to show up in my 483 00:26:27,492 --> 00:26:29,512 boardroom at my podium and yell at me. 484 00:26:29,522 --> 00:26:29,912 Yeah. 485 00:26:30,252 --> 00:26:35,382 So, uh, but, um, no, I mean, I, Jen, Jen has been, a great, And she's a great 486 00:26:35,382 --> 00:26:38,742 leader of this and helping us out with all these programs and she said it right. 487 00:26:38,742 --> 00:26:44,032 It's going to be a major reduction in mobility for thousands of people in my 488 00:26:44,032 --> 00:26:47,482 county that are very, very loving it. 489 00:26:47,532 --> 00:26:50,952 You know, we always give all of our customers an option. 490 00:26:50,952 --> 00:26:55,052 We have our traditional paratransit, and our services, available to them. 491 00:26:55,572 --> 00:27:00,752 And over the last two years, the, you can just see the transition. 492 00:27:00,962 --> 00:27:05,752 folks that are given the option, are given an option of a real time ride 493 00:27:05,812 --> 00:27:10,472 that comes in like five minutes rather than a pre scheduled day before thing. 494 00:27:10,472 --> 00:27:13,062 It's just not, it's just a totally different product. 495 00:27:13,192 --> 00:27:16,112 And it, when they see it, they choose it. 496 00:27:16,112 --> 00:27:20,452 Now, two thirds of all of our paratransit rides are on TNCs, Uber and Lyft. 497 00:27:20,452 --> 00:27:20,902 Wow. 498 00:27:20,932 --> 00:27:21,172 Yeah. 499 00:27:21,452 --> 00:27:25,742 And one third are pre scheduled rides on traditional paratransit. 500 00:27:25,752 --> 00:27:27,702 It's a complete game changer. 501 00:27:27,702 --> 00:27:31,079 It'll be a, it'll really be a major impact. 502 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,449 Now, I get it. 503 00:27:32,699 --> 00:27:37,079 It, safety is part of my job description and all of our, uh, all 504 00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:39,329 transit systems, uh, requirements. 505 00:27:39,329 --> 00:27:42,619 We have to ensure safety of all of our customers. 506 00:27:42,619 --> 00:27:47,846 We have, we have tons of FTA rules and regulations related to making 507 00:27:47,846 --> 00:27:49,861 sure we provide safe rides for all. 508 00:27:49,871 --> 00:27:53,601 So we are carefully tracking, ever since we started contracting with Uber and 509 00:27:53,601 --> 00:27:59,221 Lyft, to about how their safety record compares to our traditional forms. 510 00:27:59,321 --> 00:28:04,131 And just as Jen said, at least in our county, the, the accident rates of our 511 00:28:04,131 --> 00:28:08,391 mobility on demand, our TNC programs versus traditional paratransit, drug 512 00:28:08,391 --> 00:28:10,831 tested drivers is the same or better. 513 00:28:11,061 --> 00:28:16,861 The accident, the safety record of our mobility services, as I feel 514 00:28:16,861 --> 00:28:22,081 comfortable, is just as safe or better, even though they are not drug tested. 515 00:28:22,384 --> 00:28:23,314 All right, Alex, you're the lawyer. 516 00:28:23,314 --> 00:28:24,014 What's next? 517 00:28:24,324 --> 00:28:28,144 Well, let me, uh, actually, I want to throw in one comment before I do that. 518 00:28:28,374 --> 00:28:31,104 I want to add some credence here to, uh, what Jen said. 519 00:28:31,574 --> 00:28:33,504 You know, Uber's not paying me to say this. 520 00:28:33,664 --> 00:28:37,104 For many of you that know me, when I was a regulator, when I worked as a 521 00:28:37,104 --> 00:28:41,664 regulator at the TLC, I worked for some pretty harsh, I don't want to say harsh, 522 00:28:41,664 --> 00:28:44,924 you should have been doing it anyway, but some pretty strict rules on Uber. 523 00:28:45,944 --> 00:28:48,924 and even at the, at the TLC, but, sorry, MTA. 524 00:28:49,354 --> 00:28:52,584 Look, the truth is, I just want to address the elephant in the room that, 525 00:28:52,584 --> 00:28:56,474 oh, Uber can do this, they just don't want to be regulated or whatever. 526 00:28:57,009 --> 00:29:01,099 It's not, if Uber stood up and created a random drug and alcohol testing program, 527 00:29:01,319 --> 00:29:06,439 which I'm sure they could do, they're a big company, they're gonna create the 528 00:29:06,439 --> 00:29:09,299 bridge or an empty, or an empty warehouse. 529 00:29:09,459 --> 00:29:10,709 The drivers aren't gonna do it. 530 00:29:10,869 --> 00:29:12,099 Uber can't force them to do it. 531 00:29:12,369 --> 00:29:15,204 It's not that, Uber doesn't want to. 532 00:29:15,214 --> 00:29:17,614 It's, why would a driver sign up and do this? 533 00:29:17,734 --> 00:29:20,594 If they don't get a paratransit trip or a microtransit trip, 534 00:29:20,594 --> 00:29:21,534 they're going to get another trip. 535 00:29:21,594 --> 00:29:27,264 Uber's got enough trips to go around, but it's, it's a matter of, how do you, 536 00:29:27,444 --> 00:29:28,684 how do you get these drivers to do it? 537 00:29:28,724 --> 00:29:31,384 So, just want to kind of clear that out there. 538 00:29:31,594 --> 00:29:34,934 It's just a matter of how the world has changed and transportation has changed. 539 00:29:35,184 --> 00:29:37,474 No one's trying to be a bad, a bad person here. 540 00:29:37,544 --> 00:29:39,594 Everybody just needs to innovate and get with what's new. 541 00:29:40,114 --> 00:29:41,604 And what's new is what's next. 542 00:29:41,614 --> 00:29:44,224 So this rule is currently in the Federal Registrar. 543 00:29:44,644 --> 00:29:50,844 The docket number is FTA-2024-0020. 544 00:29:51,364 --> 00:29:54,214 We wanna encourage everyone right now, it's in a comment period. 545 00:29:54,454 --> 00:29:57,724 We are hopeful that, you know, maybe the current government does something 546 00:29:57,724 --> 00:30:00,614 about it, before it gets to the end of its comment period, which 547 00:30:00,614 --> 00:30:02,084 I believe is around February 13th. 548 00:30:02,434 --> 00:30:04,929 But we want people with disabilities, those who enjoy 549 00:30:05,129 --> 00:30:06,634 TNC as a service to get on there. 550 00:30:06,784 --> 00:30:07,924 Submit a comment. 551 00:30:08,044 --> 00:30:09,994 This is not the direction we should be going. 552 00:30:10,354 --> 00:30:13,234 How TNCs and transit have revolutionized your life. 553 00:30:13,564 --> 00:30:15,544 we, we need people to come out against this. 554 00:30:15,544 --> 00:30:18,454 It's also an opportunity to talk to your local transit 555 00:30:18,454 --> 00:30:20,074 operators and elected officials. 556 00:30:20,524 --> 00:30:23,614 You know, this is a, this is a moment in the disability community. 557 00:30:23,614 --> 00:30:26,374 When you, when you think about the integral part, transportation 558 00:30:26,374 --> 00:30:30,444 plays, people need to say, we want what everyone else has. 559 00:30:30,444 --> 00:30:33,174 We want the same benefits and types of service that people 560 00:30:33,174 --> 00:30:34,474 with, disabilities have. 561 00:30:34,864 --> 00:30:36,034 And this is a way to get there. 562 00:30:36,399 --> 00:30:39,829 Your elected officials at every level need to know about it, your transit 563 00:30:39,829 --> 00:30:43,949 operators, this is, it's a little bit of a complicated issue, I say that, 564 00:30:44,279 --> 00:30:47,449 but it behooves us as the disability community, you know, myself as a 565 00:30:47,459 --> 00:30:52,409 quadriplegic, to get, to know the issues and to get our voice out there. 566 00:30:52,709 --> 00:30:56,099 Judy, coming from the National Easterseals Society, to me, one of 567 00:30:56,099 --> 00:30:59,799 the most respected organizations in the country on this whole issue, what, 568 00:30:59,809 --> 00:31:01,419 let's let you have the last word. 569 00:31:01,419 --> 00:31:02,359 Any final thoughts? 570 00:31:02,665 --> 00:31:03,895 About spontaneity. 571 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,370 You know, it's been said, but to summarize, it's all about 572 00:31:07,670 --> 00:31:10,820 me having a choice where I want to go, when I want to go. 573 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,760 And, without the varying options that these innovations create, 574 00:31:15,050 --> 00:31:17,180 those inhibit my spontaneity. 575 00:31:17,210 --> 00:31:21,880 So, be at the table, talk with the local people, as Alex said, your 576 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,210 planning organization, the MPOs, your local legislators about what 577 00:31:26,390 --> 00:31:29,660 this potentially could mean and have a larger discussion about the 578 00:31:29,660 --> 00:31:31,870 transportation options in your community. 579 00:31:32,410 --> 00:31:32,960 So, thanks. 580 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:33,950 Thank you. 581 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,700 Thank you, Judy, Jen, Alex, and Brad for, bringing this issue. 582 00:31:37,700 --> 00:31:41,080 We at Transit Unplugged like to be on top of the, the cutting edge issues 583 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,070 that are impacting public transit and there couldn't be more cutting edge 584 00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:47,310 than this since the thing is going to kick in in a couple of weeks. 585 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,740 So, we, we appreciate newsjacking this article for this This is your 586 00:31:51,740 --> 00:31:56,930 article, Alex, from Newsweek and, and this information out to the industry, 587 00:31:56,930 --> 00:31:59,610 the public transit industry around the U.S. And I think it's important 588 00:31:59,610 --> 00:32:02,130 for people around the world to hear it, too, and to hear what's going 589 00:32:02,130 --> 00:32:03,630 on here in the U.S. with this issue. 590 00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:06,620 Thank you again for everybody for being our guests, kind of on a last 591 00:32:06,670 --> 00:32:07,990 notice here, last minute notice. 592 00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:08,720 We appreciate it. 593 00:32:08,990 --> 00:32:10,970 And best wishes to you all on this issue. 594 00:32:12,837 --> 00:32:16,497 Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Transit Unplugged with our 595 00:32:16,497 --> 00:32:23,287 special guests, Dr. Judy L. Shanley, Alex Elegudin Jen Shepherd and Brad Miller. 596 00:32:23,777 --> 00:32:27,357 We thank them for coming on the show at the last minute to talk about this 597 00:32:27,377 --> 00:32:32,847 really important issue facing transit agencies across the United States. 598 00:32:33,144 --> 00:32:36,164 Now, coming up next week, we have our special episode featuring 599 00:32:36,164 --> 00:32:39,104 women in Australia leading the way in public transport. 600 00:32:39,408 --> 00:32:44,334 We have Lauren Streifer Jamie-Lee Owen, Katie Cooper, and Michelle Batsas 601 00:32:44,664 --> 00:32:49,904 joining Paul and special co host Kelly Chapman for a discussion about everything 602 00:32:49,904 --> 00:32:51,824 going on in Australia with transit. 603 00:32:52,244 --> 00:32:56,544 And, the initiatives that Michelle especially has done to encourage 604 00:32:56,554 --> 00:33:00,594 more women to become part of the public transit industry. 605 00:33:00,894 --> 00:33:03,354 Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo. 606 00:33:03,355 --> 00:33:06,414 At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people. 607 00:33:06,644 --> 00:33:10,584 And at Transit Unplugged, we're passionate about telling those stories. 608 00:33:10,824 --> 00:33:14,304 So until next week, ride safe and ride happy.