A lot more tactics and strategies and statistics are driving every decision that's being made.

And we're losing touch with intuition and vulnerability and emotion and emotional intelligence.

Can understand all the tactics and be like, okay, I need to do this or that.

But then if your decision making is off because you're focused on something else that's outside of your control, that also shows that the mental side of it, it really impacts all of those three areas.

I have a story you tell and I hope that I can inspire other people through this podcast.

The competition, the rivalry, like self worth, self confidence, those were things that I was struggling with.

A lot of people have been asking me already, like, what's the difference between the States and in Belgium, sports wise, for example, if you're an expert in something, let it be an expert in connecting with people.

Welcome to the evolving Potential podcast.

This is episode number 24.

Today I have on the show Emil Deconnick.

Emil is a mental performance coach out of Belgium.

He's a former D1 and semi professional soccer slash football player.

He traveled and attended California Baptist University, which is the D1 school where he received his master's degree in sports and performance psychology.

Also played soccer there, slash football in Belgium.

He was a team captain for three years in a row.

He won two national championships and played multiple international tournaments.

He now works with oh, Leuven.

I hope I'm saying that right.

A professional soccer club in Belgium, as well as for the Royal Victory Hockey Club, which is a field hockey team, and a cycling organization known as NXTG Racing, supporting female cyclists from both the Netherlands and Belgium.

His work helps athletes develop resilience, overcome psychological challenges and.

And find mental well being.

Thank you for being here with us, man.

You're welcome.

Thank you for inviting me.

Absolutely.

So right now he's in Oregon, which is kind of cool, actually.

He's.

He's traveled abroad just to be closer for the interview.

No, no, he's hanging out with his girlfriend.

So I'm, I'm happy for him.

It's awesome.

He's getting a little vacation, doing a podcast.

But thank you for being here on your vacation, man.

Appreciate you.

Yeah, no worries.

I really wanted to do this, so I, I'm glad to take time to do this for you.

That's awesome that I can kind of, you know, create even.

Even if it's a small platform, a little platform for some of the coaches that are beginning out as well.

I mean, you honestly seem like you're.

You're hitting the ground running, which, which I'm really Proud of you, you know, as a, as an older gentleman, you know, to see, to see you doing that, because I'm sitting here kind of dragging my feet and, you know, getting things going slowly.

So why don't you kind of start talking about some of this stuff.

We can go back to soccer in a second.

But what is, what's some of the stuff you're doing now, you know, pushing yourself to get into and you've recently gotten into with the mental performance coaching?

Yeah, like, like you said, I, I only just started.

So for me it's all real, like really new too.

And it's really a matter of like building things from the ground, you know, starting from scratch.

But I have to say that within the last couple of months I've been doing really well for myself and, and the fact that I'm still young, um, it's, it's kind of cool to see how, how many things I've been doing already and the things you said, like one of those things are I'm working for a soccer team.

Like, I have like a, not a full time contract, but just a contract for a year in which I'm, I'm there for like every Wednesday and teach the kids.

So I'm working with youth levels, so in the youth academy with them on like mental, mental performance, you know, mental performance skills, all those things.

The hockey team, as you mentioned, and then the cycling organization, those are all things that I'm working on and working with.

But then besides that, I'm also trying to, you know, work with individual athletes too, that come my way.

They're like, hey, I wanna, I wanna see what you can do for me then, then I'll try to like help them in one on one sessions.

But that's basically what I've been doing up to this point to this day.

Again, I'm, I'm still very fresh.

Like I'm a newbie, but I'm loving it.

And it's really fun to build a reputation for myself and make a name for myself.

And in these, what is it?

Like, last five to six months, I've been really growing already as a mental performance coach.

And I also really, really like that you, you invited me to this podcast.

When I look at like other names that you've already had your podcast, like, I'm like, why would he want me on this podcast?

Right.

But I actually feel like I have a lot to say.

Like I have a story to tell and, and I hope that I can inspire other people through this podcast.

Just explain a little bit what it is that I do.

I'm not a doctor yet or don't have any major experiences yet, like in terms of coaching, but I still have a good story to tell and, and I'm really glad that I have this opportunity, opportunity to do just that.

So thank you.

Yeah, absolutely.

And it's.

And it's all about creating more perspectives for people and then also creating that, that path into mental performance coaching for other people who might be interested, you know, which it doesn't include people being at the end stages and, you know, presenting to thousands of people and making thousands of dollars per hour, you know, doing this, which is awesome to get to talk to those people, but it's also awesome to talk to someone like yourself who's like, on the ground, in the trenches by grinding, you know, and that's kind of where the entrepreneurship comes in as well, is like, you have a certain mindset around contacting all these different people, trying to, you know, solicit for better, you know, lack of a better word, your services, you know, to people, you know, with, with the belief that they do work and with the belief that you can follow through given whatever challenge that may be.

Because, I mean, you're, you're getting put into situations, you have no idea what they're going to expect of you.

You know, how, how open people are going to be to it.

And so that's kind of what I'm curious about as well, is like, you know, the coach or the director or whatever for these sports teams is bringing you in, but the athlete themselves may not be particularly ready for that or asking for that.

And so how are you kind of getting people to buy in to something like this?

As you go in and you give a workshop, you know, how do you feel like you're able to create, buy in?

That's a really good question.

I'm gonna talk about like, the, the sports or the soccer team that I'm working for, because I'm working with guys or kids really, that are 13, 14, 15 years old.

And especially in that age category, it's could be really hard to make sure that they even understand what it is that I do and then also really buy in and do something with the things that I tell them.

And so what I really try to do with that group, with that age category is make it fun, but then also obviously make it as relatable to their sport and their context as.

As possible.

The fact that I have my background in, in soccer really helps for them to see, okay, he, he knows what he's talking about, you know, in terms of soccer or football, as I said, because in Belgium, we.

We say football.

So they, they see that, they can feel that, okay, he.

He knows what he's talking about.

And hey, maybe we can learn something of, like, what it is that he does, you know, the mental side of, of all of it.

And pretty quickly they, like, as I'm talking about my own experiences, they feel and see, hey, I'm also kind of struggling with that a little bit, right?

Oh, he, he had some stress before, before a game, and like, he couldn't really.

He didn't really know what to do, or he did it this way or that way.

And then kids are like, hey, I also feel that.

And I also wonder what I could do in that situation.

Or kids then, you know, get frustrated really quickly.

Why is that?

And so as I'm talking through that, they get to see what they're experiencing themselves.

And then maybe they still don't really know what mental coaching is or mental training could be, but it opens the door for them to be curious and, you know, be ready and willing to, to learn more.

And that's really what I'm trying to do, plant those seeds.

Especially with those young ages.

I'm not expecting everyone to be, you know, doing a visualization exercise every training or every, every game or, you know, using breathing exercises.

Obviously, that's the, that's the goal.

Right?

But I'm not expecting everyone to do that because not everyone's ready for that yet in that age category, but just in general as well, like older athletes as well.

And so it's just my goal is really to one, make them feel safe.

Like, if they want to talk about stuff or if they feel like they want help with something, they feel safe enough to ask for it and be vulnerable and, and just approach me and then also just plant those seeds in cases that when they feel like they need something, they already know something, they.

They could try something and that way help themselves and regulate their own emotions, regulate their stress.

Stress levels.

That's really what I'm trying to do.

That's, that's.

That was a great answer as well.

And it's, it's like, you know, there is no straight answer, which is a great answer, you know, but it's like, to create and kind of talk about some of the distinction there and some of the things that you are doing, which is like, relating personally to people and storytelling, which I think is obviously incredibly powerful.

You know, creating the safe space for them is.

Is huge.

And that's where the Is like, you don't have to be necessarily the expert in anything.

And I've caught, I found myself getting caught up in this as well as feeling like I need to be an expert in something when in reality it's like you just have to have gone through that thing and we've all kind of gone through the psychological challenges and stuff.

And so if you kind of have some solutions in hand and you can relate and tell your story, talk about the problem, you know, present a solution, then it's like you can get, you can get buy in from somebody that way.

Which is, which is incredibly awesome.

Yeah, I would say that it's the most powerful tool.

Like, and if you're an expert in something, let it be an expert in connecting with people and make sure that they feel that you care and they feel that you want that connection and they feel safe enough to have that connection.

And from there, like, there's so much you can do, but that's where it starts.

Like, you can't really tell them what to do or be like, hey, try this or try that.

If, if they're not ready for it or they don't like you as a person or they don't have that connection, they're not gonna take what you, you tell them.

So I would say that that's the, that's the most most important thing.

Yeah, no one cares until they know how much you care.

That's also what I've experienced as well.

Like, I don't remember what my coaches told me in terms of like, tactics or, you know, technical stuff within soccer, but I do remember how coaches make me feel.

Right.

And so that emotional, like, aspect of it, like the connection that we have, that relational bond between a coach and then a coachee is, is really, really important and really, really something that they will take with them for, for the rest of their lives.

If they feel like, hey, I can be vulnerable here, then that's hopefully something that they can take with them in further relations, relationships as well.

Yeah, dude, that's.

Then that's a powerful insight right there.

Because I think that, you know, something that I've personally studied and found is that the world has kind of shifted a lot more towards left brain type thinking.

I don't know if that's the same thing over there.

I know it definitely is.

On the western side, a lot more tactics and strategies and statistics are driving every decision, you know, that's being made.

And we're losing touch with intuition and vulnerability and emotion, you know, emotional intelligence.

And so to have like you know, to validate someone's emotions that they're feeling.

Hey, yes, this is stressful, you know, to be vulnerable and tell your own story, you know, into.

And to also get them to understand that ultimately, you know, you may want all these tactics, you may want all these strategies.

Maybe that's even what you're researching online, you know what I mean?

Like back that you're like a midfielder or whatever your position is.

It's like, you know, tactics, tactics to, you know, be the best infielder.

And it's like, it's all strategies, you know, as opposed to like a mindset or a way of approaching the situation in general.

And so like really getting people to understand that, like, the important stuff is not necessarily the tactics that your coach is telling you.

And you're going to forget a lot of that stuff.

You know, what you're not forget is where you're supported, you know, where you've seen as a, as a whole, where you're seen as more than an athlete, you know, and that's, that's a, that's a big thing that I know you probably focus on as well is like being more than an athlete, you know?

Yeah.

And that is the, like, the first thing I, I tell my, you know, the kids that I'm coaching or even the coaches that I'm coaching, I.

So I always have this like, graph, I guess, and I've showed them, okay, you have tactics, technical stuff, and then also the physical stuff.

Really.

And I tell them that a lot of coaches are focused on those three things, which is good, but none of those three things would exist.

Or, or you can, you can't really perform in those three areas without the mental stuff.

Like, you can be, technically you can be really good, but if you feel down or you're not confident, you're not going to be able to show what you, you can do toxically too.

Like, you can understand all the tactics and be like, okay, I need to do this or that.

But then if your decision making is off because you're focused on something else that's outside of your control, that also shows that the mental side of it, it really impacts all of those three areas.

And so what we should really do is focus on the mental stuff first and then eventually all those three areas, or we will be able to perform better in all those three areas.

So that's kind of when I, that's really the first message that I give my, my kids, which is my coaches and the coaches, we really need to focus on the mental stuff first.

And then we can really dive deeper into those other three areas.

And I hope that that way they.

They really understand.

And you can see that they really understand, too.

They're like, hey, I have experienced trouble in all of these three areas.

And it's not because I'm not a good soccer player.

It's not because I don't understand the tactics, or it's not because I'm not physically strong enough.

It's purely because of what my mental game is like.

And so once they see that, they will.

They will be more curious and they will reach out to me more.

So.

Yeah, and when it's like, oh, you have.

Especially when it's like, oh, you have tactics for that, like, there's a way of.

There's a way of working on that.

And that's a whole new world that opens for them.

So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Your story just reminded me, like, there's a.

There's a guy who was talking about, like, the aspect of almost like, selling mental performance coaching, you know, getting people to understand how important it is.

And he was talking about, like, hey, you know, I want you to take out a piece of paper, and I want you to write down all of the.

The best aspects of.

Of your best player, whatever it is.

It's like, you know, you got a star player, you know, the most dream player on your team, you know, describe him, you know, and then, like, end up circling how many of those words are.

Are a mindset, you know, it's like, oh, character, you know, grit, you know, integrity, you know, disciplined, you know, whatever it is.

And so it's like, intelligence, you know, quick learner.

All these different things that are all mental aspects that we don't really work on.

And we just kind of hope that those players show up with those qualities.

You know, we don't really know how to develop them.

And then that's.

That's.

That's the misconception that there is still too.

Like, they feel like players either have those mental qualities or they don't.

Like, they're.

It's almost as if they inherited them and they're born with those qualities.

But it's really something that we can develop and something that we can train.

And that is something that we have to explain to coaches.

Yeah.

Because why would you, like, if you only have one of.

One of a player like that?

Like, why wouldn't we make the whole team like that?

Right.

And that's really something that we can do.

And I think it goes the flip side as well.

And so that's Something that like I was talking to one of my guests about in the past was, you know, neuroplasticity goes both ways.

And so it's like you could have a player who is amazing, got a great mindset, and the stuff starts getting to him and then next thing you know, he doesn't.

And so that has to be worked on just as much proactively, know before stuff like that happened.

So I know this great story of this guy, Bill Beswick, who used to work with David Beckham, and he talked about how like, he got the fame just really, really got to him.

He almost like completely lost it and everything.

So it's like, you know, just as much important for someone who may have like, grown up and gotten through all their youth with a great mindset.

Now they're into professionals and now, oh no, like money, fame, contracts, you know, relationship issues, kids, you know, it's like, oh no, you can't, you can't really continue that way without tools in the toolbox.

You know, it's a, it's a constant process, right?

Like it's, it's not something we're never done really.

It's not like, okay, here, here it is.

Like, we're good.

It's like you said, like, there's so many things that could happen to us and then we need to adjust and, and, and make sure that we still thrive and overcome those challenges that come at us.

And the mental part of that is obviously really huge.

And so, yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely a process, but that's why we give them the tools so that they, we won't always be there to help them.

But if we give them the tools, they eventually will be able to help themselves and regulate themselves.

And then in times when stuff do happen, then they can know, help themselves really.

And I think that is what we should really try to do.

We're not there to like, hold their hands and show him how or what to do, right?

But you just want them to give the tools so that they can help themselves.

Really.

That's, that's what we should do.

That's.

And that's what's crazy about the tools, which is.

Which I've always kind of think is, is funny.

And so one of my missions, you know, with, with this podcast too, has been to connect together like the holistic Eastern mindfulness, you know, Zen type stuff to like a success oriented high performers, you know, who don't really understand how they connect, you know, and how we're really blocking ourselves from performing our best with, with all these different things.

And so it's really cool to know that, like, there is a solid connection there and we can make it through this and giving them the breath work and the mindfulness and all these things as actual tools, not just like a hooey, you know, thing, you know, where it's like, oh, you know, just, you'll feel better, you'll be more at peace.

Inner peace.

What is that?

You know what I mean?

Like, it's like, well, what about, what about resilience?

You know, what about grit?

And like all those things are hand in hand with being able to regulate yourself, you know, potentially breathing and visualizing and being mindful.

All those things create, create those powers just as much as they do know.

Inner peace, if you will, you know.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's really powerful.

So why don't you talk about your, your story of maybe what got you super into mental performance coaching and, you know, some of the struggles with soccer and, and all that?

Yeah, well, I mean, as you mentioned, like, I've.

I've been a semi professional soccer player for a little bit.

And, and before that, I really, I always played at the highest level here, here in Belgium, like in the youth academies.

And I could tell that the mental part was gonna, was getting really, really important for me.

Like, I could, I could feel that as a player I was like, I know I have qualities and I have my talents, but there's something that is keeping me from reaching my full potential or there's something that is, that is bothering me, me a little bit.

Like stuff that happened that don't let me play the way I want to play.

And so I really early on felt like I needed to work on the mental side of it too.

And especially in Belgium, that's not something that's out there yet.

But I was really curious and I wanted to know more.

And so I started reading books, I started reading or listening to podcasts, like all those things.

I was really interested and I wanted to learn more.

And in that regard, I was also really interested in what the brain was like and like, why do people behave this way or like another way.

And so through soccer, but then also probably a little bit through who I am really and like, what my personality is like.

I found myself really interested in everything that had to do with the human brain, human interactions, human behavior, and then how we can use those or use that knowledge to perform even better, you know, like the positive psychology, if you will.

Yeah.

And so I started, I started learning or started to go to college doing clinical Psychology.

And that's really where I already had that idea of using psychology specifically within the sports context to make sure that athletes can perform even better.

And so I started with a clinical bachelor in clinical psychology and then eventually had the opportunity to go to the United States.

I had a full scholarship to play soccer here in the States and then also do my master's in sport and performance psychology.

So it was a real, like, full circle moment, you know, where I was a student, a student of the game first.

Right.

I was a player and I felt all those experiences and I felt those struggles, and eventually that led me to understanding my own mental game and now trying to help others with their mental gain.

But that's really where it like, all stems from.

Like, I felt that I really needed mental.

Mental training, mental coaching.

As a player myself, I just got really curious and I just.

It's kind of, I wouldn't say a hobby or, or an interest that grew out of proportion.

Like, I was so invested in it that I eventually, like, I feel like what I'm doing now or the studies that I've done, I mean, it just all makes sense.

It all comes down to this point where I can now help other people.

That's really how I feel.

That's gonna be a good feeling.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

So was there any specific issues?

I.

I suppose that you.

You'd say that you remember at the time that were really particularly bugging you, that it was just like, man, I.

I don't really have the energy to practice or every time a game comes, I'm choking or like, you know, what were kind of like the, the pain points, I suppose, because in my opinion, you were probably getting poked in those pain points, you know, which is what leads someone to be like, you know, okay, let me go find some solutions.

You know, this hurts.

Yeah, no, I always had a hard time dealing with competition, like rivalry, like all those kind of things.

And obviously in the soccer world, even at a young age, it's all about that really.

Like, you're constantly, constantly being evaluated by your coaches.

It's like whole.

There's a whole system that is evaluating you and, and is looking at your performances even at a very young age.

And so they always tell you, oh, it's not about winning, but you feel as a kid that it is about winning and it is about performing because you see kids come in like one year, and then maybe that same year or the next year, they're dismissed from the team.

And so you as a young kid, like, you start feeling that it's really important to perform.

Yeah.

By the, by the environment and within the team, within the club, but then also from your parents a little too.

And so I always had a really hard time dealing with that probably maybe a little because of like, who I am too.

Like, I'm very analytical.

Like, I was always thinking about, like, these stuff or as always, like, looking into it way too much.

I was like, seeing things that were probably, that probably weren't there, but I was like, I was so focused on that, on like, I'm gonna make sure that my teammates, like, don't hate me or, you know, so I was like a really people pleaser in that sense.

And I had a lot of trouble, like, dealing with that, with all the competition and rivalries, even within a team.

And so I, I wanted to learn ways to not get rid of that, but deal better with that, with that feeling.

And obviously, like, self word, like self confidence is all like, tied into that because when you're being evaluated all the time, you don't really.

You don't really have an opinion of your own.

You.

You're using the language and the opinions that other people have on about you.

Yeah.

And that's kind of what makes your self worth.

So I was struggling with that a little bit because I was always looking at other people.

Hey, did I perform well?

And so obviously on the long term, that's not good for you.

And so I realized that really quickly and I wanted to, I wanted to improve that, wanted to work on that.

But yeah, really, the competition, the rivalry, like, self word, self confidence, those were things that I was struggling with a little bit.

Everything that had to do with like performing and competing, that was something that I didn't really like.

But then the reasons why it was like I was in soccer for such a long time is that I really love, like, the process part of it and like working on myself, feeling that I'm getting better at something.

I was really living for that and it was really living for soccer.

I did everything I could to just make sure that I'm.

I'm a better player and better human being.

And I love that.

Like, I love like grinding and working even when no one was there.

I was in like, and my parents too.

Like, we invested so much in my own development so that I could perform better.

But there you already have the distinction between process and an outcome.

Right.

Like, everything that had to do with outcome and performing and competing is something that I absolutely hated.

And I could feel that in games too.

I didn't like every kid you, if you would ask a question or if you would ask every kid what they like most about soccer or sports in general.

It's, it's competing, it's games.

But I always, I always hated that a little bit.

But then on the other hand, like practices and training sessions and, and doing stuff for myself, like lifestyle wise or like mindset wise, I love doing those things and I loved investing in all of that.

And so that's really where it got really difficult for me because I loved practicing so much and I had the talent and I love the feeling of getting better.

But then when game day comes, I was really not feeling it or I was so stressed, I was choking up, really, I still managed.

To the outside world, I probably managed really well.

Like, they probably thought, oh, he's doing well.

But in practice, yeah, inside it was.

I was always dying a little bit.

Like, I really hated it.

Like playing games.

I mean, yes, obviously there are games that things do go.

They do go right, or they go well.

So it's not like I hated it every time, but usually.

And just in general, like, I, I didn't really like games or, or having that, that competing mindset and, and you have to be better than another person or they're going to kick you out of the team and you have to.

I, I didn't like that at all.

And so I struggled.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's, that's something that I, I wouldn't even necessarily think about, you know, first thing when it comes to, you know, performance anxiety or anything like that, or the inter, interpersonal stuff that's going on, you know, behind the scenes, really, where it's like, as a good person, which you seem like you are.

Nice guy, like you, you'd almost feel bad for your friends, you're getting cut.

You know what I mean?

And you're like, I'm.

I'm sorry.

Really sensitive for those kind of things.

And it's funny, but, because they always, like my dad, for example, or like coaches too, they always told me that they're like, you're too nice.

And I started seeing that as a negative thing.

Oh, I'm too nice in this, in this soccer world, I'm too nice of a person.

But now I started to realize, no, it's, that's not the way it should be.

Like, I am nice.

That's who I am.

And that's a quality, that's a strength.

And if that doesn't fit with this soccer world, then so be it.

Like, I don't want to be a part of it.

Anymore.

But the fact that they always told me that I was being nice and they made it seem like it was a negative thing like that just.

That bothered me a little bit.

Like, why can I just be the way I am?

Like, this is.

This is who I am.

I am a nice person.

I am very sensitive to these kind of things.

I am very analytical.

But why would that not work within this soccer room?

Yeah, that's something that always kept me thinking.

I was like, why?

Why is that?

Yeah, that's got to be a tough one, man.

It's kind of reminds me of like, the.

The saying, like, being in.

In the world, but not of the world.

And so it's like, you know, to teach someone potentially maybe, you know, to find a way to be on that soccer team and performing your best and finding, you know, through the.

Through the practice of perfecting your process and really enjoying the process, you know, and as people get cut, you just find a way to not take it personally, you know, and like, really just like, hey, you know, you.

You worked your hardest.

And.

And they will get another opportunity at a different time.

That's their path.

Your path is your thing.

And.

And that's led you here to not getting cut.

And that's great.

I mean, it's like, if you would have been cut, I'd still love you too.

Like, then from the parents.

And so that's a tough thing to really like for you to kind of exist as a.

As a single entity within itself side of the team that is creating all that pressure for you.

And you're like, you know, I'm not going to really fall into that pressure.

I'm just gonna.

I'm just gonna stay focused on the process.

But in my opinion, that's what made you so great.

You're talking about being team captain three years in a row and always being one of the elite players, you know, on the team.

It's like, well, you love.

You love the process.

And so that's something that I think that's very powerful that you can teach and own within yourself, you know, from a place of humility is like, hey, you know, I was really good because this is what I did.

I just loved the process.

Yeah.

And then also that, like, you said those interpersonal things, right?

Like, I was really sensitive to those kind of things, and I really cared for my teammates.

And so the fact that I was team captain also probably had to do with.

With that.

With that.

Right.

So I was.

That's just kind of who I was.

And.

And it's funny because looking back at it, I'm asking myself the question, do we really like the fact that I didn't make it as a professional football player, soccer player?

Like, is that because I couldn't find a way to have that grit or, like, have that competitive mindset?

Or is that because the system didn't really allow me to just be me?

And then making it as, as a pro?

Like, is that a necessity to have that, like, competitive mindset all the time, despite what others are like or what others feel like?

You have to be very egocentric.

Is that what is necessary to make it as a pro?

That's the kind of question that I've been asking myself, and I still don't really know the answer.

I really hope still, that there is a way where athletes can just be themselves and have those strengths, whether that's being introverted, extroverted, whatever, but they could still, with their, with the strengths that they have, make it as a, as a pro, like, in a competitive environment.

I, I like to think that that's still possible for me.

It.

I mean, that's where the story ended.

But I learned so much about myself and, and about what the soccer world is like.

And I really hope that we can find a way in which people can be the way they are or just be themselves, really, and then also thrive in an environment where there is a lot of pressure and there is a lot of competitiveness.

But that's something that I've been not struggling with, but something that I've been thinking about lately.

Yeah, no, and that's.

And that's something that's really important.

I think that for people like yourselves to be able to teach coaches, that's again, you know, more of an interpersonal skill, is understanding that, like, each person has almost like there is a collective soil, if you will.

That is, the nutrients are providing, you know, things to the plants which are helping them to grow either to their fullest or to a more.

The soil is dead and there's not a lot of nutrients there.

It's going to grow small, weak, you know, whatever.

And so.

But again, it's like each person is also a different plant almost entirely.

And so it's like being that almost gardener tending to the garden of all the different athletes.

It's incred.

It got to be incredibly hard, and that has to be respected.

You know, it's like you've got, let's say, 20 people on a team, 40 people on a team.

And that's like those are a bunch of different personalities, and each one of Those kids needs something slightly different to perform their best, as you're saying, and to be intuitive enough to understand that is something that should really be promoted.

And that's like emotional intelligence as well, and leader and leadership, you know, too, as knowing, yeah, this person needs.

You know, John Wooden talks a lot about this.

It's like one person needs sugar because it's like they have a really hard at home.

They just need you to be nice to them.

They just need a safe space and another person has it too easy at home and they just need you to lay down the law and like, be more serious and be more strict with them and show them that you care through that way.

And so it's like that to me, yeah, it's, it's.

That's the bread and butter right there.

Is, is to, to build those relationships for teachers, for leaders, for coaches, for parents.

How do we really, like, understand people so well that we can provide them with the needs that will allow them to grow into the biggest and best plant they could possibly be?

And that's such a, such a hard thing and such a fine line too, between being authentic as a coach and having your own style, really, but then also understanding that you need to be flexible depending on the player that is in front of you.

And like you said, like, you need to, in your approach, like, you need to change a little bit when you're talking to this kid and, and when you're talking to that kid.

And so that's, I think that's.

Must be really hard for coaches, and it's something that we can support them with, like having that authenticity, like having their own style as a coach, but then in that style being able to, you know, change their style a little bit just depending on, on the, on the player that is in front of them.

I think that's, that's going to be really, really important.

I, for example, had a coach like in my last year actually, and that's kind of how I decided to quit soccer.

I had a coach who at one point he was like telling me, dad, he doesn't really care about the, the player or the person behind the player.

You're a player, like, especially in the environment.

I was on like under 23, so it's like the second team of a first.

First team.

So I was like, really close to making as, as a professional soccer player.

He was like, in this environment, I don't really care about the person behind the player.

You're here to perform, you're here to play.

I'm gonna try to Help you the best I can so that you can make that jump to the first team.

And I always thought that was kind of shocking.

Like if you go to work, like, obviously the person like that you are is gonna impact the way you perform.

And that's exactly the same within, within sports.

But that, that was his approach and that was his mindset.

So I was like, if this is what it's like within a sports environment, like in a professional sports environment, then I don't really want to be a part of it because I do not agree with you.

And I told him.

And so we had this whole debate and he was like, I need to be tough, but everyone's just, to me just to see how equipped you are to make it as a professional.

And, and that's where I was like, I mean, that mindset of having that, that tough love approach, I, I did not like that at all because as you said, like, some kid might need that, but another kid is going to be super sensitive to that and it's gonna, it's gonna break him.

And now you can ask me the question, what's right or wrong?

Like, maybe he was right.

And then he, he was able to divide those that weren't equipped to make it as a professional and they were, he was like, I got rid of them.

And now the people that I still have are those then that do know how to deal with this kind of approach or this kind of coaching.

So maybe it worked for him.

But I, I, I absolutely hated that mindset.

And I feel like it wasn't just him, it was just in general, like within soccer world is something that I absolutely, absolutely discussed or was disgusted by.

And so that's why, that was one of the reasons why I decided to quit professional soccer or at least quit chasing that dream.

Because for the longest time I was chasing something and as I, as I got closer to it, I realized that it wasn't really for me necessarily, and also that I didn't really needed it.

Right.

I love that process.

But then eventually the outcome wasn't there.

But I'm, I'm fine with that.

I was doing something that I loved and I was doing it to be a professional soccer player.

But in the end I realized that wasn't necessarily my dream.

I did that because coaches were expecting me to do that, or my parents, for example, expected me to do that, or we invested so much in it, but I didn't need that outcome for myself, for my self worth and to feel good about myself.

I feel great about myself and I love the process, I loved every part of it.

But I, I mean, I don't mind that I, that I didn't have that outcome, whereas so many people are so focused on that outcome that they leave everything else behind.

Like, their whole identity really is.

Is focused on that outcome.

And I, I, I really wanted to avoid that.

And that was part of why I decided to quit soccer, too.

Yeah, no, and that makes perfect sense to me.

And like, even from a.

You were saying about how the coach might feel good about himself, I was like, okay, I've gotten rid of the, the weak people.

When in reality, a tweak or two could have made that person into a killer.

Not literally, but like a, an awesome soccer player that's just, like, kills it.

You know what I mean?

And in reality, it's like, I think that holding onto a lot of that stuff would just mess with your longevity.

So it's like, I'm feeling lots of pressure.

I'm ignoring it.

I'm pushing through it and just need to get through this next chapter.

Just need to make it to first team.

Just need to make it to.

Just need to be a starter.

Holding onto that stress now, one year, two years goes by holding onto that stress.

Now you're burnt out.

You know what?

Whereas opposed to you, who loves, who loves the process?

If I can just stay focused on getting you to stay focused on the process and not focus on all the rivalry bullshit, then it's like, all of a sudden now, now you're an amazing.

Now you're an amazing player that can be in the, in the league whatever whatever for 10 years because you love it, not because you're, you know, living up to the pressure.

Yeah, but unfortunately, I didn't have coaches that realized that or, or could help me in that way.

But again, I'm, I'm, I'm fine with that now, looking back at it, but what you say is true.

Like, I've, I've been talking to so many professional athletes, too.

For example, at the team that I was playing for last season, I was really close.

Well, I, I practiced with the first team now and then, too.

And as I got to talk to those professional athletes, you can tell that that is exactly what they were doing.

Like, year after year, they, they experienced stress, and they didn't really know how to deal with that necessarily, but they always were chasing more and more and more, and they were like, oh, you just need to go to this next.

Next chapter or next season and, and so on.

And eventually they burn worse than that.

Like, after their career because the career is only, what, 10 or 15 years, but they really fall into this pit where they don't know where to, what to do with themselves.

Like, they, they're burned out.

Their whole identity falls apart and they're, they're kind of stuck in this moment where they don't know what to do next.

And that's something that I really wanted to avoid.

But that's probably because they were so focused on, on that result.

And that result really, or that outcome really identified them like that was what their whole identity was like their whole purpose was.

And so that's.

As I'm talking to the younger kids and younger generations, that's something that I want to want them to understand.

And that's going to be really hard because they're still very young.

And as they're talking, I can also sense that they are like, playing for.

I want to have a lot of money because I, I'll be a professional soccer player and I want to have, you know, when I win the Champions League or like, whatever.

So it's all always so outcome oriented.

And eventually, I've seen it myself, eventually, that's not, not going to be positive for them, like on the long term.

So there too, how can we shift their focus to the process, really?

And then, and it's funny, it's really a paradox too, because the more we focus on the process, the more likely that the outcome will be there eventually too.

But if we are so focused on the outcome, we forget the whole process part and we won't get any closer to that outcome.

So that's something that I'm going to have to make them understand.

But I think that's really powerful.

I mean, if we just can stay in this moment of what can I do next?

How can I.

What is within this process a possibility for me to be a better person, to be a better player?

If we can keep our focus on that, like every time again, eventually we will get closer to that outcome.

It's really good to have a goal, right?

But if we just have a, if we just put a pin there and then shift our focus to what can I do now?

Eventually we will see that we're getting closer to that.

But if we have that pin and we keep looking at it and we keep being focused on it, we're not going to get any closer.

So that's what I really try to teach everyone that I'm.

I'm working with.

Yeah, that's, that's incredibly powerful.

And I love, I love those really powerful paradoxes.

You Know, like, the letting go to get what you want or whatever.

But, like, there's.

I definitely got really into that idea of focusing on the process.

I don't know if you follow American football at all, NFL, but there's a team called the Ramp.

There's a team called the Rams, and their.

Their head coach is Sean McVeigh.

And he's very into the psychology of everything.

He.

His.

He grew up.

I think his dad was, like, friends with Bill Walsh, and Bill Walsh was the championship coach for the 49ers back when, like, Joe Montana and all these really, you know, famous guys.

So I'm not aficionado either, so.

But the cool thing is this guy, Bill Ross, wrote a book called the Score Takes Care of Itself.

And that's a book.

If you haven't read that book, like, definitely amazing books.

He talks about the same stuff, is like, all I have to do is focus on the process.

If we check these boxes, you know, the outcome will happen, the score will take care of itself, and we don't need to.

And so he was just like, you know, a.

I wouldn't.

Maybe Nazi is not the best word, but he was a, you know, very, very strict about sticking to the process and just focusing on the process and not.

Not being obsessed with an outcome at all.

And so it's like, you know, a lot of culture needs that.

You know, I have a coach coming in.

It's like, we need to step it up.

We need to start winning some games.

You know, like, oh, cool.

Let's just.

Yeah, because we haven't wanted to win.

Like.

No, exactly.

Now that you say that.

Well, now that you say that, let's go win.

No, but it's.

It's.

And there's something that I see with the teams that I'm working with, too, as we're working on goal setting and all that stuff.

Like, it's very easy for them to define a goal, like an outcome goal.

Like, yeah, we want to.

We want to win this amount of games or we want to be here in the ranking.

And, like, that's great, but then how are you going to do that?

And then you always see that that's so much harder for them to come up with process goals.

It's so easy to talk about the outcome goals.

But then how you're going to do that, what are you going to do now to get closer to that goal?

And so that's something that.

That's kind of a shift that we're going to have to make or just make them understand that if we keep focusing on the outcome, eventually we might not get there, or we're going to get frustrated really quickly because we notice that we're not there yet.

Well, especially if we make a big enough goal.

Like, yes, we're going to feel frustrated if we keep looking at that, but if we focus on the process, eventually that goal will come or we will get closer to that goal.

So, yeah, that's.

That's, I think, really, really powerful.

And then all the tools we use should be leading to focusing in.

In the moment, because why are we.

Why do we feel stressed or why are we nervous for a game is because we already think about the outcome or we're like, our mindset is.

Is focused on that.

So every tool that we use should be to come back to the present moment and think about, what can I do now to perform the best I can.

Yeah.

And then, then I think of breathing exercises, visualization, like, all those things that make us come back to the present moment and really have that experience of a flow state, because that's.

If we can enhance that or like, have that moment as much as we can, that's where we perform at our best.

And eventually we will get closer to that goal that we wanted to achieve.

But I think every.

That's.

That's kind of where, like, that's kind of what I tell people when I try to explain, in a nutshell, what mental coaching is like.

We have all these tools, and eventually we're trying to get to a flow state.

And if we can experience that state as much as we can, we will feel so good about ourselves and then eventually achieve really powerful things and really cool things.

But that's kind of.

To me, that flow state is.

Is the holy grail of sports psychology and, and kind of life in general.

Like, that's what we crave almost.

It's something that we want.

We feel so good in that moment.

So why not try mental coaching or mental training to have that experience as much as we can?

I agree, I agree.

And.

And then that's where, like, kind of realizing that all this spiritual stuff, if you will, is what's ultimately blocking a lot of that.

Those things from.

From coming into state into the flow state is like, okay, now I've got, you know, perfectionism and unrealistic expectations and scarcity mindset, and I'm comparing myself to others and I'm scared to fail.

And, you know, there's.

There's all these different things that are ultimately blocking the flow state.

And so it's like, it's not about, you know, doing more.

And as I've talked to another guest about this as well, this is another paradox.

It's not about doing more to get your results, it's actually about doing less.

It's actually about letting go of a lot of that stuff that is ultimately blocking you from locking in to that flow state, you know.

Right.

Because it wants to come.

It's a natural, it's a natural human thing.

It's a natural state in which we should be able to visit, you know, almost, you know, not, maybe not at will, but we should be able to regularly visit, you know, when it necessitates itself, you know.

And awareness is the first step of all of that.

Right.

Because so many people, like so many players I've played with, they're just going through the motion and they're, they don't, they don't really know what they're doing or what's affecting them, what's blocking them from achieving their best.

And so we need to be aware of like what the thoughts are like that are preventing us from playing the best we can or how we react in certain situations, why we react that way.

And so awareness is the absolute like base of all of that.

Because if we, if we're not aware, we cannot enhan.

Enhance.

And, and so that is something, especially with those younger ages that I'm working with is something that I'm really trying to work on is like I'm, I'm like asking them these hard questions and sometimes, well, most of the times they don't really know the answer to it, but I'm like, what are, what are you thinking in this moment?

Or why does that thought come into your mind?

Where does that come from?

And especially when they're that young, it's really hard for them to really understand where that thought is coming from or why they behave the way they behave.

But eventually they're going to have to learn to think about those kind of things if they want to push themselves to, to the next level.

And then I'm not talking about performances necessarily, but also just their well being.

Like if they want to feel good about themselves, like have a stable self confidence and self worth, then they're gonna have to acknowledge what those things are that make them feel bad about themselves or why they keep hanging on to those things.

So, so yeah, and that's, and then that's where we get into the conversation as well.

But I see come up often as the, this is another Bill Beswick thing is he calls it a victim versus Victor.

You Know, and so it's like, well, when you got all these things coming up, it's like, are you, are you taking ownership for those things or are you, you know, well, this person did this to me, and so that's why I'm dealing with this thing.

And, you know, I, I feel frustrated because, you know, this other person, you know, did that.

And it's like, well, we gotta kind of.

Yeah.

Gain the awareness and realize, you know, that we do have some, some responsibility there, you know, for, for how we do feel.

You know, that's, that's the thing that I'm trying to teach my, my kids too, is that you ultimately decide how you react to things.

And, and it's like you said, like, if you're in that victim position, you're gonna be like, ah, this person did this to me or that to me.

But when you're a victor, you can still decide or choose how you react to those things or in.

To what extent you let those situations or those things affect how you feel about yourself.

And so that is, that is the first thing or one of the first things that I'm trying to teach them is that's the thoughts that come into your mind.

Those are not necessarily your thoughts, but you do have the responsibility to, you know, choose how you react to those thoughts.

Because, I mean, if you think about it like, none of the thoughts that we really have are our thoughts.

Like, they always come from somewhere.

As we grow up as kids, we start to use language that other people use and we kind of create a sense of ourselves.

Right.

But we always think that we have a choice in that.

Like when, when thoughts come into our head, it's because they think, oh, that's, that's because who we are, that's.

That's what we really think.

But that's not necessarily the case.

It's.

It's just the fact that that's what you've been hearing in your surroundings or from your surroundings, and then so making that disconnection, almost understanding that you're not your thoughts, but you can decide how you react to those thoughts.

That is something very powerful and very necessary, I think, in that first step of creating awareness, but then also creating circumstances for yourself in which you can feel better about yourself and then eventually perform better.

Yeah, you talked about that as well with the, the soccer team that you're.

That you were dealing with before.

And like, that's just, that's just an incredibly powerful thing that continues to come up, you know, and so, you know, being proactive versus even Reactive is very important.

So knowing how to respond, obviously, you know, you deal with react versus respond.

So I do I have a knee jerk response or do I get to choose in the way that I establish meaning and tell the story behind this thing, you know, is very, is very important place, you know, to take in this thing.

And so yeah, I just, I think that that's something that, yeah, I just wish that we would have more.

This is a term that Graham Beckhart uses.

He calls now front loading more things.

You know, so we, we have things, we know that we're going to say these things to ourselves and so we have these things in place that kind of counteract those things.

Yeah, and so, and so that's why I thought it was important that you mentioned it both in the context of your own soccer as well as these, these 15 year old kids and their, let's say, daily lives around their parents.

That we are constantly being evaluated by others in our environment and the language that they are using becomes the language we use within ourselves.

So it's like, oh you dumb shit, you know, versus oh, you smart, awesome, you know, great kid.

You know, those two kids are going to have a very different self talk ultimately because of that, you know, and has nothing to do with the themselves believing deep down, you know, or growing up or you know, getting the gene for being a dumb, you know, it's like, it's definitely has nothing to do with it, you know, so I know and I know that, you know, unfortunately there are too many people in this world that do speak to their children that way.

I, I witnessed it, you know, and I've grown up being a victim of it as well.

And you know, people that are disregulated and don't know how to handle people and are trying to use tactics and you know, punishment scarce, you know, being, being scary, you know, to get their results.

And it's just, it's just not the way anymore.

And I think that there's been a lot of change in that regard, you know, to coaching evolving.

And so I think that, you know, this is just another evidence of coaching evolving, proving that coaches do want to learn and do understand.

Like if I keep ignoring the mental side of sports, if I keep ignoring the needs of, you know, the, the kids or whatever, like it's going to backfire.

It's gonna just make my life that much harder, you know.

Yeah, but it, it's not always that, that obvious too.

Like it can, can be very subtle.

Like the way parents or coaches deal with, with their kids.

What I'm trying to say is that, yes, like, people, like some parents do, like, say all these.

These bad things, like, very directly, but sometimes it's also.

It's way subtler than that.

To the extent where a kid feels that, for example, he had a game and he didn't perform that well, and he comes into the car, he notices a shift in, in like, the love that he's receiving.

And so he starts to learn that the love that I'm getting depends on how well I play and, and the performances that I have.

And so that's very subtle.

Like, it's not necessarily something that the parents say, but it's also what they don't say in.

In those moments.

And, and that's something I.

I've.

I experienced myself, but something I see with the kids that I'm working with as well.

Parents and coaches have such an.

Such a powerful impact on.

On their kids, but it can be so subtle that it's almost hard to.

To be aware of those things.

But it's super necessary, right?

Because if a kid feels that way, I feel like kids are very sensitive to those kind of things.

Like, they start to pick up on, like, little switches in the behaviors of their parents and coaches.

So especially when we're, you know, giving love to our kids, we should be as consistent as.

As we.

As we can and not let, like, a bad performance depend or.

Yeah.

Influence how we, how we respond or react to our kids.

But then it's.

It's up to our kids to.

And that takes a lot of time.

Like, I feel like I've only been.

Been able to do that in the last couple of years, like, be able to really look at these things objectively, not point any fingers, not take anything personal.

But then thinking about, like, why is this?

How do I react, how do I feel?

But just from a distance, kind of just look at it objectively and be like, it's okay.

Right?

And that's kind of what I've been doing last season.

So last season I was still playing for the under 23s of this first team in Belgium, this professional team.

And I was so close to getting there, to my dream.

But I really started to ask myself questions, like, very objectively, like, what is it that I want?

Why am I doing the things that I'm doing and not just saying, oh, I.

I think soccer or football is fun, but go way deeper than that.

Like, go a couple of layers underneath that and really go to the core of, like, what it is that that drives me and also what it Is that hinders me and blocks me and not like, point fingers to myself and be like, ah, you should have.

Why have you let that thing affect you?

Just look at it objectively.

Oh, this was the circumstance and that's how I reacted.

And, and then just learn from that.

I think that's, that's really, really, really powerful if you, if you're able to do that.

No, I agree.

I agree 100.

And I don't know if you've heard of a guy named Gabor Mate, but if you haven't.

Yeah, yeah, dude, what you're talking about really resonates with some of the stuff I've, I've looked into with him and I love, I love his work.

You know, you're talking about the subtle things that you do to a child.

You know, that shows them that, that, that attachment may be, you know, maybe not severed, but, you know, there's issues there.

It's like, okay, I'm not going to love you the same way if you do this.

You know, if you displease me, if you don't act in ways that I like, then I don't.

I'm not going to show you love in the same way.

And so it's like your authenticity is then, you know, sacrificed for that attachment, which is incredibly sad.

It's like, I will be whoever you want me to be as long as it gets me love.

And that's not.

And then we have to suppress, you know, and repress parts of ourselves, you know, that become our shadow, you know.

Right.

And then it just becomes incredibly, incredibly messed up.

And so then you're talking about getting to know yourself and, and being, you know, you use, you use the word objective, you know, which is perfect.

Okay, like, why, you know, why am I feeling this way?

Why am I experiencing this?

Why am I frustrated?

Why am I having these results in life, you know, and, and Gabriel Mate uses a term called compassionate inquiry, where I'm going to ask myself compassionately, I'm not going to be like, what the hell is wrong with you?

I'm going to be like, you know, what's, what's going on?

Where am I feeling?

Why am I feeling a little bit off?

You know?

And so developing that ability to do that is really important, you know, and then I'll say one last thing.

I had, I also had a guest who was an ex Marine.

And then now he actually is basically like, most of his work revolves around being a third party between a parent and a child, where it's like, okay, I'm Going to talk to the child, you know, objectively and figure out like, hey, you know, you know, what do you want to hear after a hard game?

What do you want to hear after a good game?

You know, how do you, how would, how would you like to.

What's some, some of the issues that we're experiencing around, you know, maybe feeling some pressure from your parents.

And then you talk to the parent and you figure out like, hey, you know, what are you wanting out of your kid?

What are you hoping for?

What do you, and you kind of like create that almost ability to, for them to speak objectively to each other.

Because I know that that goes both ways.

It's not just about a parent being there for a kid and showing them all that love and affection.

It's also about a kid letting their parent be there for them and communicating to them, like, hey, you know, I had a hard game today and I'm really struggling right now.

Like, I just need, you know, a little bit of, you know, love, please.

Like, just, you know, and, and, and most of us won't say that.

We'll just say I'm going to my room or whatever, you know what I mean?

Like, and so, yeah, I think, I think it's very, just important distinction to mention that it goes both ways when it comes to that.

It's about, it's about the athlete learning themselves as well and communicating with a loved one parent or whatever, you know, to make sure that they're getting that support that they, they deserve and, and advocating for themselves, you know, Know.

Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree.

But the, the thing is also I feel like parents and coaches are not doing those things on purpose.

Right?

Like, no parent is, is not going to show love to their kid, but because it's so subtle, like, they do need to have that awareness of like, what it, what is it, what I'm doing and how does it impact my, my kid?

And like, for example, my parents too.

Like, I genuinely believe that they had the very best intentions, but just the way they, they acted, it just, they just let their personal stuff interfere with how they showed love towards me.

And, and I mean, I'm so grateful for like everything they, they've done for me.

Like, I love them so much too, but that's, it's really important for parents to understand that and, and, and, and be aware of those, those behaviors that they, that they portray or show.

Same with coaches too.

And it's like you said, like, I just, I don't, I don't think that anyone doesn't want to show love, especially to the.

To the people that they love.

And.

And like you said earlier, no one wants to lose or no one wants to do it badly.

But if we, like, you know, for focusing on that, it's like, for a person, it's just.

Yeah, I don't know.

It's just something that doesn't help them in the long term.

Like, I see it so much with the kids that I'm working with too.

Like, they make a mistake, they give a bad pass, they lose games, and then the first thing that the coaches do is, like, pick on those things.

Whereas, like, obviously they don't want to do those things.

Those things happen.

But then why should we then emphasize those things again?

Like, they know they did bad or they know they made a mistake.

So what.

How.

Instead, how can we help them to just do it better next time?

Or how can we make sure that they don't feel too bad about themselves?

Like, because that way they will be able to have the courage and confidence to do it again next time.

Yeah, I always feel like that's so weird why we as humans do do that.

Like, we.

We're so focused on that negative thing and then emphasize it again.

And I'm like, that's not helping anyone.

Stating the obvious.

Like, no one wants to make a mistake.

No one wants to do it badly.

And similarly with.

With like, the love that we give, like, no one wants to not give their child love, but subconsciously or in a very subtle way, sometimes we do that.

Or a kid feels that way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think, you know, a.

It's like for a coach to understand that there's a negativity bias within themselves.

Very, very important.

And then I think there's a lack of understanding about even neuroscience of, like, you know, I.

I am literally teaching this person to focus on this thing.

I keep bringing it up.

I'm building pathways to it, you know, and that's clearly.

Clearly not.

Not a good thing at all, you know, and so, yeah, I just think.

And then when it comes to parents, it's like, there is definitely the need.

That's why it's like.

I'm kind of almost curious.

I'll kind of bridge into a question about if you do any work with parents.

But, like, there's definitely parent wounds there, you know, so it's like your parents even, like, they're.

They have to kind of stop and ask themselves the same thing, like, why.

Why does this matter to me so much?

Why do I need.

Why do I feel like some sort of Sense of me needs my child to be successful, you know, and so it's like, is it, is it truly love, is it truly support or is it more so, you know, a vicarious living through the child as well, you know, and coming to terms with that within yourself.

And so I'm curious, first of all, I guess I did have a question almost earlier as well.

Is like if you could have had the support from your parents to give you the extra coaching and you know, kind of push you but not have the pressure on you, like, could you potentially explain it all, like what that might look like?

You mean if I would have had those mental resources as well?

Or may, maybe, yeah, maybe that would have been one of the answers.

But it's like, you know, how, how much your parents have pushed you and, and supported you and gave you all the extra coaching without it being outcome based, what might that have looked like?

What, how might they have said things a little differently or done things a little differently?

In, in hindsight that is, you know.

Yeah, no, I just, I just felt like, I mean obviously they, they invested so much in, in like my development and like you said, like we work with so many personal trainers, like other coaches, like other stuff that we, we did just to make sure that I would get better and better and then eventually get to that goal.

I think the difference is just in the way they, they talked or made me feel about certain stuff.

Like if something didn't go the way they wanted it to go, then you could tell.

And so if you would be really process based or process oriented, like it wouldn't have mattered.

I mean they would have understood that they're going to be good days, bad days.

So it's going to go up and down.

That's kind, that's part of the process.

And eventually you learn from your mistakes and you grow.

But I could tell that there was a difference between, between when I played really well and then when I didn't play that well or same in coaching, when we saw results or when we didn't see results, there was a difference in like the way they approach me or talk to me.

And I think that would be the biggest difference.

So as a parent, if you, if you can be consistent in that process of highs and lows with the love that you gave, give and the things that you say, I think that will keep your focus away from the outcome.

Because if, you know, if you see that there's so many differences, automatically you will be more focused to that outcome.

You'd be like, okay, I need to do this.

I need to perform this way in order for my parents to behave this way or say these things.

And for me, the most, like, powerful thing that still sticks with me is like the ride after a game back home.

If I played really well, you could tell we were all very cheerful, you know, laughing, there was a lot of love.

But then when I didn't play well, I.

There was like a.

Such an atmosphere that just was really, really bad.

Yeah.

And as a kid, you really.

That.

That has a big impact on you.

So that is something that I always noticed and then was a little afraid of.

So you want to avoid those.

Those bad experiences in a car ride.

So then you're focused on.

On the result.

I need to do this, this and that in order to perform well, in order to, you know, make my.

My parents feel good and like me.

But that's obviously such a weird way of thinking that.

That that's even possible because that way and it just.

And hence that I would be so focused on the result, not just for myself, but for the reactions of my parents or coaches or teammates.

And it just creates a self word in which you're not really focused on yourself, but you're so focused on what other people say.

And that's just in the language that the parents and the coaches use that just creates that.

That self word almost.

That was really, really the case for me.

I wasn't necessarily playing for myself at some point.

I was just playing just to make sure that coaches would say something nice or my parents would really show their love.

And again, I do believe they.

They do love me, obviously, like, they support me, and I'm so grateful for that.

But those little subtle things, those subtle differences really, really have a big impact on how you feel about yourself after a good or bad game.

And that's something that, in hindsight, is something that I wish that I would have.

Would that it would have been different.

But then at the same time, it kind of.

It made me who I am and it brought me to the point where I am now.

So, I mean, I really don't blame anyone.

And it's kind of what I meant with being objectively too, because when I made the decision to quit soccer, for example, my parents were like, they had a really hard time because they kind of began to understood how.

With the behavior that they showed and the things they said, how they impacted me, they started to feel bad about themselves and they outed it, like, towards me too.

But I really didn't feel that way.

Like, I didn't blame them.

At all.

Like, I just, that's just what happened.

That's just how it went.

I knew, or I know that it's from like out of their best intentions that they act that way.

Yeah, yeah.

And so I don't blame anyone.

I don't even blame myself.

It's just as I learned so much from those experiences and I'm super, super grateful for, for my parents, for everything that they've done.

But yeah, I feel like that kind of is the difference between.

I hope that kind of answers your question.

It does, it does for sure.

And, you know, the idea too is like, I feel like one of my guests talked about something that would, that came to mind when you were talking was like the idea of, of redefining winning.

And so it's like, you know, your parents could have, you know, in reality come together with you and be like, you know, okay, what's it look like, win or lose, for you to really just be like you, you won this game and your own performance and your own heart, you know, like, what's gonna, what's gonna take for you to go out in that field, and no matter what happens, you're gonna come back into this car and everything is gonna be great, you know, because, you know, you did your best, you know, or you can be a little bit, you know, objectively upset with yourself and giving yourself feedback on what it is that you need to work on, but able to still enjoy yourself and enjoy the whole process.

Yeah.

You know, and so it's like, yeah, winning is not winning.

Winning is, you know, I was focused.

I, you know, was present.

You know, I was present.

I, you know, yeah, you know, showed up and all those things and not those, like, oh, I kicked the ball four times and I made two goals, which are all things that are very much out of your control for the most part.

You know, obviously you can do your part, but as a team sport, you can't.

You can't really do that much, you know, yourself.

That's what was really missing for me.

Like, thinking about what was really within my control.

I was so focused on things that were outside of my, my control.

Like, really performance based, outcome based.

Like you said, there's so many things that are so many factors that have an impact on the outcome that's not really within your control anymore.

But I was so focused on that.

And then also, you know, I'm focused on my own performance and what that would bring out in other people that I wasn't really focused on, you know, the process or like, in that Moment.

What, what, what I could do.

Just to give you an example, like most of the times that I was on the field I was, I was mainly looking at my dad like who was standing in the corner like on the sideline looking or trying to see how is he reacting, like what is his behavior like and like any kind of clue that would tell me something about how, how I was doing.

And that just says a lot about like where my focus was at and then also how I felt about myself because my, my, my self word was so attached to what he thought and like whether he liked what he saw or not that I didn't really have known like an opinion for myself and I wasn't really focused on what I could do to enjoy myself in that game and just play the best I could.

So that also gives you a little bit of an example of what it was like being so outcome focused, outcome oriented and what it could have been like if I was more process oriented, just in the game, enjoying myself, being focused.

And then what you say is so true, like what is winning in that moment?

Winning could have been, you know, being focused on what I can do right now in this moment.

Or it could be having a setback and being able to with a breathing size, breathing exercise, for example, coming back to the next action, the next play instead of winning, which could be, you know, performing well, getting so many good passes, making sure that my dad likes what, what he saw.

Like that, that back, that was kind of what it was like but, but it could have been something, something else.

And I truly believe that if we focus more on winning as you know what we just mentioned, like winning as being focused, showing resilience, being confident no matter what, like eventually that will have such a, such a positive impact on someone's well being and then eventually also their performances that we really should try to prefer that, that kind or focus on that kind of winning.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that with that being said and the importance of the parent, what would do you find yourself running up against the wall when you're working with some of these children?

Because I know that you, I mean it's from what you said, it's like once we were working with them once a week or doing workshops and things like that.

So obviously you're not having access to, you know, parent and kid in, in room or anything like that.

And so it's like you, you could be talking to a, you know, kid, teenager, whatever about all these instances and then they're going home and they're experiencing exactly what you're talking about?

Yeah.

You know, and so do you.

Do you think that.

That it kind of is.

Is hard for you to deal with the fact that you don't really have a relationship with the parents and you're kind of trying to work with kids who are under the.

The provisions, you know, the house, the bubble, the environment, the soil of the parent who's maybe not so supportive.

You know, it really is.

It really is hard.

And it kind of made me.

I wasn't aware of that as much yet, but now that I'm working within the field, I.

I'm starting to understand that we should probably work more with the coaches and the parents than we would have to with.

With the kids because they have such an.

Such a big impact on how they feel.

And what I've been doing now so far, I've been working with.

With kids, you know, have I been having these great sessions.

And you can tell that they understand what I'm talking about, and we make progress that way, but the effects kind of.

They're kind of gone as soon as they, you know, a couple of weeks later, they.

They experience stuff with.

With their parents or their coaches.

And that's really hard to see because you want to.

Obviously that's.

That's what you want to avoid.

And so that made me think or realize that I should probably be working with the.

With the coaches and parents a little more.

So we started working with the coaches a little more too.

But even there, like, they also.

They agree and they understand what you're saying.

But then when you observe them during games or practices, there's still such a big difference between understanding what I'm saying and then also executing what I'm saying.

So there's definitely still a lot of work to do with coaches, but also with parents.

When it comes to parents, like, with one of the teams that I'm working with, I actually had a session just for parents, too, like a workshop.

And I feel like in the future, that's definitely something that I'm gonna have to keep doing because it is so important, especially when you're working with young athletes, young kids, their parents play such a big, important role in.

In their development, in their mental game as well, that we do need to get as many parents as we can on board and make them realize that, you know, it's so important, the mental side of it.

But, yeah, I definitely see that.

Like, it's.

It's a really.

It's definitely a struggle, like working with kids, but in seeing that, you know, their environment kind of what's the word?

Nullifies the effects.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But at the same time, I do love working with the kids because they're not always going to be, we're not always going to be able to control the parents or, or the coaches.

Like they're going to have to learn how to cope with a bad coach, for example, or, or a bad boss.

And so I do want to give them the tools because the, in the end, like, that's really what they can control.

It could be in a victim position and be like, oh, this is not a good parent, or this is not a good coach, this is not a good boss.

But that's out of their control.

And so what they should be able to do in that moment is rely on the tools that I give them or that we come up with together, like create a routine in which they can make sure that they perform well and feel well despite of the coach or parent that is around them or despite, you know, regardless of the, the environment that they're in.

So I do think that is still really, really powerful too.

But it's, it's, it's a little bit of both, right?

It's, it's top down, bottom up.

And if we can do that both ways, I feel like we can create a lot of, or just, just create great results.

That's what I'm trying to say.

Yeah.

Now that's, and that's the big thing that I love, you know, and that I definitely want to talk about in the podcast as well.

So, like my master's in sociology specifically for that reason, because like I saw myself going and getting the bachelor's in performance psychology and I was like, I can work with individuals until I'm exhausted.

I can only, you know, obviously as an individual, you can only work with so many people per day, you know, doing sessions, like hour long sessions, like eight in a day maybe, you know, that's pushing it.

That'd be exhausting.

8 Every day, you know.

And so it's like, but, but if I affect coaches, if I affect parents, if I affect managers, leaders, you know, systems, systems, whole systems, you know, then, then we're really talking about big change, you know, but in reality, yes, this, the poor systems will still exist.

And so we have to create people as standalone, you know, resilient people who are able to exist within a system, you know, again, being in the world, but not of the world, you know, so it's like, I don't let affect, affect me too much.

I know who I am, I know what I stand For I know, you know, that I'm perfectly capable of, and worthy even if I fail.

And you know, like, the world can tell me I'm a failure and I don't really sucks, you know.

Yeah.

And that's something that I like.

I love that there's people like you that are, are, are seeing that both are necessary because obviously there's people, lots of people that are on the ground floor.

I can go through LinkedIn right now and find like mental performance coach after mental performance coach, you know, and to me, I think it's awesome, you know, it's like, you know, but yeah, there's only so many of them, so it's like you could have, I could be servicing five to 10 teams in the area here, you know, and there's another one, there's like, but there's, there's infinite teams.

There's infinite, like, opportunities for this to exist.

And so to me, where the real impact can ultimately be in the future is through changing systems, you know, really teaching entire, you know, not even just a, you know, a NFL coach, but the NFL itself.

You know what I mean?

Like, go thinking big thinking, right?

Yeah.

So that's, that's pretty cool.

So I am curious.

I, I, I've never been to Belgium and I've been to Italy once.

I'm curious if there's any major differences that you may notice in, you know, mindset.

I guess it's kind of a vague question, but you, I feel like you know what I'm talking about culture, if you will.

Yeah, that's a question that a lot of people have been asking me already, like, what's the difference between the states and in Belgium?

Or like, you know, sports wise, for example.

Yeah.

And one of the first things that comes to mind, or one of the first things that I say is just really their attitude and mindset towards sports in the sense of, like here it's, I feel like in, in, in the U.S.

especially when you, you, you go to a college level or even in high school, I feel like sports is so important and, but it's not necessarily for, for an outcome.

Right.

Like here I feel like I've seen a lot of kids do sports or I talk to a lot of people in college too.

Like they did sports and it's, it's a huge part of their development.

And you know, process wise here is more like you do a sport to become someone in that sport or like to create or get results in that sport.

That being said, when you talk, talk about the differences just in terms of like infrastructure and like investments.

It's crazy to see that difference between Belgium and in the US Like, I feel like in the US they pour a lot of money into sports, college level, but then also definitely professional level.

And there's so many resources, so many a great accommodations for athletes to really develop as, as a player and as a person.

Whereas here in Belgium that's, that's less of the case.

And so that's really cool to see that in the States there's so many opportunities for people to just develop and, and see how far they can go without really having to necessarily like be a professional player.

Like for example, in college too, like I went to a college, a D1 college and it wasn't the biggest college but just the field was perfect.

Like we had a great gym obviously, like the games we played in different states, we had to go, you know, by plane.

And so you can tell that there's.

Some Americans really love sports and so do Belgians.

But there's like a different, different kind of mindset when it comes to that.

Here it's more like they're focused on the process and they give the players every opportunity they need to develop and grow as a player and as a person.

Whereas here we're like a little more small minded and we let the individual try and if it works out great.

If it doesn't, then everyone has a bad image of that person.

But here in the States, um, I like how we give a lot of people the opportunity to develop and you know, in terms of like infrastructure and, and, and also attitude and, and you know, I feel like that's, that's.

I see what you're saying.

It's like, it's almost like the select.

It's hard to like you kind of.

Yeah.

In, in like let's say in Belgium you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's like almost like the select few, you know, decide to play, end up making it cool, happy for them.

Like that's their thing.

In, in America it's like we kind of want everyone to get involved and we'll end up seeing who's good as opposed to like, you know, specifically people choosing to go to go be good.

It's a completely different mindset here or in Belgium they're very small minded and like you said, you have the select few.

We're going to invest in them.

But I feel like it's, it's different in the stage.

Like you have a good base and like you, you pour a lot of, a lot of Money into infrastructure, accommodation, like all that kind of stuff, but for everyone really.

And then they get the chance to develop, grow and then regardless of the outcome, they've had that opportunity.

Whereas in Belgium there, like, like you said, there are a select few that they want to invest in, which also creates a lot of, a lot of pressure on those people to make it.

Like they have to make it then.

Whereas that, that could be, could be a big difference between the states and in Belgium.

And similarly for mental coaching in the States, for example, I see like when I go on LinkedIn, a lot of full time positions for mental coaches, whereas in Belgium that doesn't really exist.

So when you talk about a holistic approach towards players, like you want to help them like holistically on all areas, then in the stage you can, you can see how they also invest in mental, in the mental game, mental performances with like the full time positions that they have and offer.

Whereas in Belgium that's definitely still not, not there yet.

Like mental performance is only, it's, it's only at the, it's in a beginner's level really.

Yeah.

And you can, I mean I really have to work as a freelancer here or in, in Belgium, which means that I work a little bit for this team, a little bit for that team, just depending on what they need to.

But there's no way that a team, like even a professional team is going to offer a full time position for a mental performance coach that doesn't really exist yet.

So that also shows the difference between the states and Belgium.

Like understanding the importance of a mental performance coach within a team.

Yeah.

And broader.

That shows the investments that they want to do for everyone or just for a select few.

Yeah.

And like you said, it also changes your role in how you're able to execute your mental performance coaching.

You know, how many people are going to buy into that, how many people are going to be willing to let you, you know, come come talk to them or whatever.

And so to kind of, to kind of finish up here.

I want to, I, we talked about it before when we, we kind of met, you know, before the podcast.

But we, you had talked about like kind of some of the, the grind, if you will, of getting these clients that you have so far.

Yeah.

And your, and your goals, some things you've done and then how you kind of would like to potentially grow as a mentor performance coach and some things you'd like to head into to doing in the future.

Yeah, I noticed that it's really hard to have like individual People come to me, like, grab their attention and then work with them.

So what.

I kind of shift my focus a little bit.

And I wanted to work with teams first because I felt like I could have a bigger impact within a team.

You're working with a team, but a team of, like, a lot of individuals.

And in that way, I would have individual sessions too.

Like, the people that are interested, they could always reach out to me and then we go from there.

So I'd have a bigger impact doing the way that I'm doing that way.

And then also in terms of clients, like, I eventually will have more clients if instead of, like, reaching out to people individually, like one on one.

So that's why I do what I do now.

Like, I work with teams, and I feel like it's like that's working really well.

And I really.

I really love what I'm doing there too.

But in the future, I feel like that's something that I want to increase a little bit.

So I want to have my own business in which people can come to me as individuals, but I also still want to work with teams.

So it's a little bit of a combination working with teams, but then also having my own business in which people can, for example, through an app or whatever, reach out and then get insights, like new insights into their mental.

Their own mental game, see what tools they could use to apply for themselves in order to play better or be a better person.

So that's kind of what I.

What I want in the future.

That app.

I feel like that's something that.

That could be really cool and just make mental coaching and mental training very easily accessible to a lot of people.

Like, not just a select few, but like, everyone really, because it's important for everyone.

Not just athletes, but then also business people, just general people.

How do they apply mental tools for themselves so they can overcome challenges, still be confident and resilient in everything that they do?

That's kind of my goal on the long term, for sure.

And then obviously, like, I could have, like, personal ambitions too and say I want to go to the Olympics or, you know, World Cups and all that.

I feel like that could be really cool.

But again, I don't need that.

Like, I want to serve other people as much as I can.

And if that comes, if that opportunity comes, then.

Then great.

But it's.

It's wanting it and not needing it.

Right?

Yeah.

So that's how.

That's what my.

What purposes and what my goals are in the next couple of years.

Yeah.

See, and I And I want to highlight and, and respect you for, you know, get, and get people to understand the fact that, you know, you've, you've graduated, you know, with a degree in something that is very new, very in its infant stages.

You know, where, where you live back in Belgium.

And you're putting yourself out there, you really are putting yourself out there by, you know, sending emails or, you know, going and calling people and trying to figure out like, hey, you know, let me come in and do a workshop.

You know, you're developing the workshop yourself.

You're talking, you know, like everything that you're doing is like, it's making sure that you're not avoiding discomfort, you know, like you're really going straight into to it.

And that's something that I want to give you credit for and make sure that people see that because that's, that's the way to get into it.

Especially, you know, you do not have any advantages over there as far as, you know, full time positions.

But I think ultimately, in my opinion, my personal opinion, from all the research I've done, and I'm a little older than you, I've been trying to figure out what the best possible way to do this coaching thing that I would actually feel comfortable doing.

And it's the way that you're doing it, it's with teams, you know, it's.

And it's, and it's freelancing as well because most of the positions that I've seen, even though they're awesome, even though they seem awesome, I've even talked to a guy who, who worked for the MLB for like eight years.

He's like, the job doesn't pay that well and you're traveling like 200 days a year.

You know what I mean?

And so he's like working for the dog.

Oh, I won a World Series, but it's like I wasn't home for my family 200 days out of the year, you know.

And so it can, it can be very challenging in that regard, you know, when you're specifically working for a team and you're capped with how much money you can make as opposed to freelancing.

I can do this.

I can do this.

I can create a little course.

I can go do a speech here, I can do a workshop here, you know, and end up like making a lot more money that way and having a lot more freedom around your schedule as well.

Because if you work team, obviously you're working full time.

So definitely, in my opinion, stay your track, keep doing your thing, you know, do Whatever you want to do, obviously take it or leave it, but I think that what you're doing is, is awesome.

What you're doing is, is the best way that you could possibly grow yourself.

And if you can start getting clients, you know, abroad or whatever.

I know, I do know some coaches that, you know are doing international coaching remotely, you know, so that's, that's, that option is not off the table for you, you know, and start moving yourself back into the US and stuff and, and you know, with your girl there.

Be awesome.

Yeah, no, it's.

I, I actually think, I always thought that I would prefer like a full time position too, but I'm starting to realize that this freelancer position that I'm in like gives me a lot of freedom and there's just a lot of advantages to that too.

And I was actually talking to one of my mentors and she, she agreed with me.

She was like, yeah, I would stick this route too because one like you said, like money wise too, like there's a lot of ways that you can have different incomes that way.

But also it would like if you would have a full time position somewhere, like people would get a little more too dependent on you for like their mental performance.

And I always thought that that's something that I wanted, like I want to work very intensively with, with players and athletes, but eventually I don't think it would do the athletes any good if they like see me every day or like they're so dependent on me as a mental performance coach.

And I feel like we talked about this during the podcast too.

But it's, I don't want to hold people's hand necessarily.

I want to give them the tools so that they can regulate their own emotions, their own stress levels, etc.

But that's not gonna necessarily, that's not really gonna work if I'm there all the time in like a full time position.

So that's also where I kind of like the freelance position a lot better because that way you see them once or twice or multiple, multiple on multiple occasions during a season, for example, but you're not there all the time.

You make them know that you're there.

If they meet you and you give them, you know, your, your knowledge and your experiences and the tools that you want to provide them with so that they can eventually use them for themselves in times when they need.

It's, it's going to be, it's going to be more effective for them.

And yeah, so that's why I also really like the, the Freelance position too, definitely.

And you can come in and you can make a big impact with one speech.

You know, like I always imagine that because I live in Arizona, it's like, oh, the Arizona Cardinals, you know, hiring me to do one speech.

I'd like to get to that point where it's like, you know, this guy, this guy, he'll come in here, he'll talk for one hour and your minds will be blown and you'll be leave better, better off.

You know, you'll leave some tools, you know, that you can really use.

And so like I would just love to build myself to that point.

And so yeah, yeah, I think you're, I think you're doing the right thing.

Like I said.

Yeah, it's just such a tin line also like kind of a trade off in a way too.

And you kind of have, have to find that balance because not all people will be or yes, maybe they will be inspired in one session, but then a couple of days later they will have forgotten most of what you said.

Yep.

And so, but you also don't want to be there too much.

So it's, it's finding that balance really, I think that's going to be really important and also just for me and then we can close out is understanding that I'm not going to be able to help everyone.

Like, I feel like I have this need to like I want to help everyone, I want to serve everyone, but not everyone is open to being helped.

And that's something that, that I'm going to have to find peace with.

Like, it's, it's fine that not everyone wants help.

Yeah, no, I, I, I have actually had the same exact issue as well.

And there's, and I, I took a certification called Neuro Linguistic Programming.

And, and, and it's really awesome.

And they, but they have this thing is like there are no resistant clients, just inflexible communicators.

And so I'm always like, man, I must be struggling to communicate if there's any resistance, you know what I mean?

It's like I should be able to help everybody because like, you know, the people.

Yeah.

And so, but it's just not how it is.

Like, yeah, you're right.

You know, people are not always ready and it's nice to be there for those who are.

And it's nice that in that role, like you said, instead of waiting for individuals to come to you, you are, you know, hired on by the team and you get to give a speech and then those who want more, those who are More interested can come to you in that way, and that way, you're able to be that much more empower, impactful without soliciting or pushing your services on anybody, you know.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah.

All right, bro.

So if anybody's interested in finding you, where can they find you?

Yeah, I'm.

I'm on LinkedIn, so.

Emil.

Emil the Cronink is definitely a good way for people to.

To find me because that's where I post most of my, like, like, the stuff that I do within this field.

But I'm also on.

On Instagram and then true.

Gmail, for example, you could.

They could always reach out to me.

I don't know if I could leave my email somewhere, but that could be a good way for them to.

To reach out to me if they have any questions or.

Or would want to work with me, too.

That would also be great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

LinkedIn, Instagram.

Yeah, that's awesome, dude.

I appreciate you being here, man.

Like, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do.

I'm looking forward to potentially seeing courses come out of you or YouTube channel or some speech.

Some awesome speech you did.

You know, I saw the recent graphic they created for you where you're like, you know, your soccer picture with the mental performance coaches.

I thought that was awesome.

So I was like, that's already.

You're already heading in the right direction, bro.

So it's a key thing.

It's really cool.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Thank you so much.

And thank you to, you know, give me the opportunity to talk about what it is that I do and just to get to know you a little bit too.

I think what you're doing is also really, really cool and something that I see myself doing in the future too.

So this was a really cool experience in.

In that too.

So.

And then.

And I want to thank you for that.

I honestly appreciate you being here.

I appreciate everyone watching and, yeah, the things that we were able to touch on, you never know where we're gonna go.

That's the kind of the cool part about it.

It's like, obviously there's little bullet points, things you want to touch.

Touch on, but, you know, it's.

It's very interesting to see the direction that interview goes.

And yeah, you touched on a lot of.

A lot of great things.

A lot of great things.

You know, attachment versus authenticity, you know, you know, the communication with the kids and the parents and just a lot of things that are.

That are really, really important that I think are not necessarily talked about enough.

I think we made it very tangible today with you and your own story as an athlete.

And it's exactly what we talked about being power of the storytelling, you know?

So, yeah, you're doing great things, man.

Keep doing your thing.

Appreciate you being here and enjoy your time with you, with your lady.

All right.

Thank you so much.

Of course.

See you.