Brittney Sherman: It's uh, it's your ladies of Scarletto ever,
but we're not ladies of Scarletto.
We got to start that over.Over.
Sonia Meza-Leon: We're so rusty.
Brittney Sherman: Uh, all right.
Hey, Scott lottos.
We are your ladies of Scarlet.
So it's been a minute.
We, um, we took some time.
We, we took a little break.
We had, I think, finished 35 episodes, but, um, we, we rested up
and now we're, we're coming back.
So welcome back to the routine, Sonia,
Sonia Meza-Leon: and I'm so excited about the routine.
I have to say.
Um, well, two things first off.
You know, it's been crazy lately with the COVID-19 thing and working
from home and Brittany, you know, this too, we've been slammed.
And, um, when I look at my life and I kind of think, oh, I need to
really like find my happy place.
And then I, I go and I sit down and I watch a bunch of documentaries
about true crime and murder.
And I'm like, this is my happy place.
Yeah, it's a little disturbing, but it truly is, you know, I've missed it.
I miss talking to you about this stuff.
I mean, we talk all the time, but not about anything, you know, enjoyable
question, the whatever, like air quotes, but you know, just, I think things
we're passionate about plus, you know, I miss the banter, so I'm so excited.
We are back.
We did take a bit of a break, um, you know, to catch our breaths
so much going on and sometimes.
You were happening in the world that I felt I just didn't really have.
Um, I D I didn't need a voice at that moment.
I thought that it that's, the situations are speaking for themselves.
So out of respect to those situations, I thought it was kind of a good
idea for us to take a moment and to look around and what was happening.
Brittney Sherman: Yeah.
I agree.
You know, we, you, you kind of touched on it.
We were slammed with our regular lives.
So, um, I felt like I needed an opportunity to step back for a bit.
I felt like.
It wasn't the re the right time, the best time to be concentrating
on this, but, um, I'm, I'm excited.
Um, I'm really looking forward to getting back.
I think we're going to have a few changes that will, um, we, we hope you'd like
that we think will hopefully improve.
We are working on trying to build our brand a little bit and hopefully
make Scarlet TCP a little bit.
Sonia Meza-Leon: That's right.
And, um, I'm excited about tonight because in this episode, you know, as we normally
do for each each record, you know, we record a couple of episodes at a time and
we usually start, you know, we developed this system where we can really get into
our group quickly by just having a, sort of a run and gun, top three conversation.
And, you know, it's just a moment for us to talk about things, um, you
know, quickly, uh, you know, top line.
That allows us, you know, just to get warmed up without having too much
detail and too much reference material.
And, um, this, I suggested this topic to you and the topic is, I said, you
know, let's talk about our top three unjust verdicts or what most people
would call wrongful convictions.
Right.
I said that in passing because, you know, I had a lot of things on my mind and I
had been watching some things lately and I, I, one of my favorite documentaries
about some true crime, true crime situation is, is in particular about that.
And, um, I, then I started licking my list and it was really hard.
So my list is actually probably a little different than you're expecting,
but let's dive right into it.
Let's do our top three wrongful conduct.
Brittney Sherman: Well, you can't leave me baited like that.
So this was your topic.
You seem to have some unique thoughts.
So what are you getting.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Well, let's go back a little bit because what do
we mean by wrongful convictions?
That's like, I thought it best.
I mean, I wasn't even calling it the wrong thing running.
I was saying unjust verdicts.
Right.
But Bronco convictions, the more appropriate terminology
and used by most, I.
I had a hard time, you know, because there's so many, I was really saddened
by the number of, of, of wrongful convictions and the people who are
sitting in jail now because of it.
So I, my choice for my top three is actually just one case.
And, um, Yeah, I know I had a really hard time trying to figure out who I would put
on my list because all of the wrongful convictions in my opinion are terrible.
Right.
Terrible situations.
Like, and I didn't want to disrespect any of those other choices, honestly.
It's not fair for me to say, oh, one's better than the other.
And in this one, I was like, ah, this is, this is a tough one, but go back
a little bit to wrongful convictions.
Colorado sciences attention to a really, really interesting.
Piece of literature, literature that op-ed piece by John Grisham.
Right.
And we know who John Grisham is, world famous attorney writer.
And he did an amazing job of summarizing the eight reasons for America's
shameful number of wrongful convictions.
And he wrote it for the LA times.
It was written in 2018.
I would suggest you guys reading it.
It's so fascinating because he writes like a screenwriter.
So he writes in a way.
Really is compelling.
And so you're entertained by his peace, but he is so right on with it.
And you know, just a summary of wrongful convictions in the United States.
I think that right now, the average that's considered, you know, the,
for wrongful convictions versus other convictions, it's 2%, 10%.
I feel
Brittney Sherman: like the phone.
Yeah, it's a real lot.
I actually was going to say it's like 10%, which is way, way too many.
Yeah, no, there, there was a great quote, I think even by Ronald Reagan
who kind of prided himself on law and order that pretty much said.
Wrong Cole wrongful conviction is worse than 100 guilty men going free.
You
Sonia Meza-Leon: Bennet, but it's rampant.
And, uh, usually, you know, I have to say most of the time.
We have revolves around people who don't have the ability, the
financial means or the support in any other way, really, to be able
to, um, you know, defend themselves.
They probably got a, a typical, you know, someone assigned
to their cases and attorney.
I mean, it's a lot easier to, to defend yourself when you have a lot of money
and you can afford good representation.
So that's.
It is, it really does suck, but, um, the John Grisham piece is really interesting
and he contributes, uh, You know, the, the number of wrongful convictions to a
couple of things, you know, his, his top in no particular order, he says are bad
police work, prosecutorial misconduct, false confessions, faulty eyewitness
identification, jailhouse snitches, which I don't know why people would think that
would be really, you know, Uh, okay.
To when you're, when somebody's life is on the line to listen to someone
in jail, trying to get a reduced sentence, it's weird, a bad lawyering,
sleeping judges, meaning just letting things happen and then junk science.
So it's a really good article if you want to.
Um, guys want to look at it because I just think John Grisham was really talented.
And when he writes, um, for the people who really understands
how to convey that message.
So now that we talked about wrongful convictions and what
they are, and we talked about how.
That are currently happening the percentage anyway, 2% at 10%, but I
can tell you in the past, I'm sure that that has been much more, especially
when it comes to people of color or, you know, people who are compromised and
vulnerable, you know, Yeah, definitely.
So sorry.
That was really first.
That was a whole long intro.
So I know I even got lost
Brittney Sherman: number three.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Well, I want to talk about my number three, because
like I said, my number three is actually all three of my, my wrongful
convictions are from one case.
Um, and that case is the west Memphis three.
And again, my choice was this, the specific case really.
Disturbing to me in so many ways and really well-documented and there are
every other wrongful conviction is probably as bad or worse, but this one
just really hit home for me for a variety of reasons you had in 1994 or 1993.
Three young boys, eight years old to, I think they were in second
grade murdered horrendously.
Um, obviously they were tortured.
There was hard to tell about, you know, sexual abuse and things like that.
Um, if you don't know this case, I would look into it.
It's called the west Muslim.
It's three weapons west, west, Memphis, Arkansas, um, and you know, sleepy
little town, little country town.
There were these three, second graders apparently were out,
you know, doing whatever second graders do, riding their bicycles.
And, um, someone snatched them, took them to the woods.
Um, hogtied them.
It looked like they raped them.
They mutilated their bodies and then they left them in the Creek bed.
So what actually ended up happening was one of the boys died by blunt force
trauma and a variety of other things.
And.
The other two boys actually drowned in the Creek bed, but they too were hogtied.
And, um, there's an interesting documentary called paradise lost, um,
about this case because, and it's, I, I will warn everyone too, when you watch.
If you watch it, there are graphic photos of the children
and the way that they were found.
And it's really, really horrifying in this town.
The small little Bible belt town just didn't know what to do with it.
So cut to, um, three teenagers, um, that somehow or another got roped into,
um, the situation as suspects sounds to me like one of them who didn't know
the other two very well, but knew them.
You've got the, the three, the three, and this is, these are my three, my three, you
know, essentially are the three guys who were wrongfully convicted for the crimes.
And I think it's known now that they were wrongfully convicted.
I think it's, everybody would agree.
Um, but I'll go through each of them.
And then I also want to talk a little bit about the, the little boys that were
murdered because it's totally terrible.
Um, but it was really, really hard, so I'll stop there.
Um, but so that makes.
I know crazy.
Right?
So that makes my number three on my list.
Now that I gave you some backup by fro shorter, a backstory for the west Memphis
three, um, E now we'll talk about my number three of the wrongful convictions,
and that is particular to this case.
And his name is Jesse Ms.
Kelly.
He was 17 years old.
Um, uh, he came forward somehow.
With the police either.
They picked him up.
I'm not sure how they got him in involved, but they essentially questioned him.
And got him to confess to the crimes saying that he and two other
people who are my number two and my number one, um, worked together
and did this crime committed the crime against these three boys.
And, um, it was instead, it was part of like a satanic ritual.
So we'll leave it.
A couple of things about Jessie, Ms.
Kelly.
Um, as, you know, if you, if you go and you look into the case,
it's, what's interesting is he, he did have a bad reputation.
I think that he had, um, his IQ was compromised.
I think he had a very low IQ, which is one of the reasons they say that he was
easily, um, vulnerable to, you know, being prompted in questioning a confessions and.
What's crazy about it.
The Jessie, Ms.
Kelly Guy, the one who pretty much blew the whistle on these other two
kids who were became suspects and then were ultimately found guilty.
They didn't know each other very well.
So here, you've got a guy saying, Hey, Yeah, me and these two guys,
we went in, we grabbed these two, three boys and we dragged them into
the woods and I held them down.
While these other two guys did these things to this, these, these
boys, they didn't really know each other, like out of the blue, these
other two guys get roped into this.
And, you know, you can kind of see an unfold in the documentary, but
I will hold, I reserve my number two are in my number one for later.
But my first is obviously that Jesse Ms.
Kelly kid.
You know, who just needed to get the hell out of the police station.
He was like, he would have said anything at that point.
And he essentially just said, he said what he had heard about the case.
And he, many of the things that he noted were wrong.
So of course, a person at his age, you know, not having representation
in the room, um, of questionable and, you know, IQ who was easily persuaded.
You know, he, he didn't have much of a chance.
Brittney Sherman: No, I.
I am not surprised that you picked that topic.
I know it's one that you are passionate about.
It's a frustrating topic for anyone that is familiar with it,
or has watched paradise lost.
In fact, if I'm not mistaken, it's a three-part docu-series.
Over the course of like 20 years or something, right?
Sonia Meza-Leon: Yeah.
It's um, you can watch there is that.
And then there's also one that it looked like HBO just compiled together
to make one like 140 minute piece.
But, um, yeah, so.
Once they had all of these three pieces because they had recorded
their shot this over time.
Um, then they, they did compile it at the time they were
releasing them individually.
And there was a lot of people behind, um, the supporting
these guys and it didn't help.
I mean, they spent 18 years in jail.
Uh, I mean for crimes that really, they weren't, there was no proof that they did.
They didn't.
I mean, other than a couple of things, Led this town to sort of
call them out and to ostracize them.
And we'll talk about those, those, those, those reasons later, because
this is where I can kind of really associate myself with these boys.
And it's terrifying to think you could just get railroaded like that.
Brittney Sherman: Okay.
So my number three is not as deep as that I'll get there, but my number three.
Is the Hollywood 10.
And are you familiar with the Hollywood 10 Sonya?
No, it is
Sonia Meza-Leon: that, that sounds really, it sounds like a bar.
Brittney Sherman: It's probably not quite what you're thinking of, but
we're going to, we're going to do a little history lesson right now after
world war II ended in the late forties.
There was a Senator from my pride and joy, Wisconsin, Joseph McCarthy,
who was, uh, went on a very strong anticommunist tear through the country.
And he set his sights on Hollywood.
And there were hundreds, if not thousands of Hollywood
executives, writers, producers.
That were targeted as being either potential communist, communist
sympathizers, Stalinists, what have you.
And while communism was not illegal in America, as you can imagine.
Extremely frowned on and, uh, not something that anyone wanted
to be considered a part of.
So in, uh, 1947, he started, uh, he, Joseph McCarthy, uh, started the
house un-American committee or who act and subpoenaed 79 people, uh,
claiming that they were communists.
Of those 79, ultimately 10 of them would come to stand trial in front of Congress.
Now, again, it wasn't illegal to be a communist in America, but they
were ultimately blacklisted and their trial was not for being a communist,
but for perjuring themselves.
So.
10 Hollywood creatives, uh, political ideation, unclear, you know, they D they
denied ultimately being true communists.
They, they denied being the Stalinists or supportive of the Soviet union, but
they were determined to have lied to Congress and perjured themselves, and
were sentenced to eight months in federal.
And that was the star of what many people can still hear of and are familiar
with of the Hollywood black list.
Uh, and so the Hollywood blacklist is.
An unofficial list at the time, it was a real list of, uh, at this
time it was a list of communists or communist sympathizers who worked
in Hollywood, who were no longer allowed to work in Hollywood.
A blacklisting is still a thing where you're doing.
Spread around town and you essentially are no longer allowed to unofficially
no longer allowed to work and you're on hireable, but this was the start
of the black list system through what many consider an unjust trial
in front of Congress of ultimately 10 influential creatives that may or may
not have been communists in a frequent.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Wow.
So what w what happened?
Brittney Sherman: They were, they were found guilty of perjury.
The only crime they legally could have been found guilty of for saying
they weren't communists in front of Congress, even though under oath, even
though they were felt that they were communists and so lying to Congress,
and they spent eight months in prison.
Never were able to get their jobs or regain their jobs back.
Um, there was a, I haven't seen this, but there was for you really old
fashion, Hollywood nerds, kind of like myself who kind of wants to see this.
Uh, there was a 16 millimeter documentary shot about it in the fifties, but
then there's also a movie called one of the Hollywood 10 that focused
specifically on one screen writer.
Who fought the hardest to try and proclaim his innocence despite being found guilty.
Sonia Meza-Leon: And when was
Brittney Sherman: this?
Uh, late forties, early fifties, uh, it was throughout what is known
as the who act period, the house on American activities committee
periods, blood by Joseph McCarthy.
And it was kind of a tirade that he went on to rid the country of any
potential communist sympathizers.
And he said his focus on Hollywood and the
Sonia Meza-Leon: Hollywood system.
My feelings about that era in another episode.
But, um, there was a lot of shady stuff that happened around that time.
I mean, it was, um, it was the wild west in Hollywood.
Brittney Sherman: Okay.
Onto your number two, even though you already kind of gave up.
Sonia Meza-Leon: I did.
Sorry.
So back to the west Memphis three case, uh, I sorta Terentino's
this whole process by the way.
So I get it, uh, by the way.
Um,
Brittney Sherman: yeah, no, for sure.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Yeah, for sure.
Um, so my number two was Jason Baldman, who was another one of the mid west
Memphis three in Arkansas, 1994.
Convicted of, uh, murdering being a participant in murdering three second
graders and mutilating their bodies.
And he was sentenced to life.
He as well as the other boys, eventually after 18 years, um, they
did some kind of plea deal on using the Alford plea and they were released,
but ultimately ruin their life.
I mean, these guys were in jail from being 17 years old, you
know, up until 18 years later.
So their lives had changed dramatically because of this.
What was interesting about Jason, Bob?
Again, the other guy who ratted on them, the, the confession or the,
the, whatever we're going to call it, the guy who had some problems and
confessed under pressure, he didn't really, I mean, he didn't know them.
They weren't close friends.
He didn't know Baldwin nor did he know the other suspect as well.
Um, ballroom was interesting.
He, you know, he, while, while the other guys, the other two Westminster was
three guys, they did get in some troubles and vandalism, some shoplifting, um,
Baldwin actually got really good grades.
Jason Baldwin was not a dumb kid.
He was a smart kid.
He was a really good artist.
Apparently he was talented.
And, um, I guess he was going to go on to college, to study graphic design.
Um, w when I unveil my number one, which you guys already know if you
know the west Memphis three, we'll talk a little bit about those things
that they ha they were had in common.
Um, but yeah.
Uh, my, again, my number two, Jason Baldwin, poor kid, 16 years old,
you know, 17 goes to jail for what he thinks is the rest of his life.
Um, for a crime, he really, really didn't commit that appears to be
well-proven that he didn't commit.
So again, you know, a travesty of justice and a really sad situation.
Brittney Sherman: All right.
My number two is Ruben hurricane Carter.
Oh, I first learned about and, uh, became, he became.
Probably pretty famous because of a Bob Dylan song called the hurricane.
You know that on ya?
Sonia Meza-Leon: I hate Bob Dylan.
I know you do.
That's how I, oh, God, like that was that's.
I don't, there's no comparison the way you could ask me that I'm like, I that's
the furthest from my, my, my world of music and I don't mind folk music.
I just, Bob Dylan's voice just makes me
Brittney Sherman: that's crazy.
You know, I had a teacher one time compared Bob Dylan's.
As the most successful worst singer of all time, specifically referring to.
Sonia Meza-Leon: I'd probably agree with that.
Brittney Sherman: Uh, but he's a hell of a songwriter and his, his song.
The hurricane is an eight minute plus song about Rubin Carter, who
was a middleweight boxer in the 1960s in Patterson, New Jersey.
And he happened to be at a neighboring bar.
To where a armed robbery and shooting that led to the death of
a couple of patrons took place.
And he wa the witnesses claimed that they saw two, maybe three black men
that were a, the VSA lens and a similar time Carter and two other men were
leaving a neighboring bar and then were.
No, doubtedly trailed by police.
And at this time, Carter was not, he didn't have a clean slate.
He was dishonorably discharged from the military for, uh, disciplinary reasons.
He had charges against him for abuse, but he was cleaning up his act and he was.
Pace to become, to challenge for the world boxing middleweight
championship of the world.
When he was pulled over after dropping a friend off and arrested, ultimately
charged and was convicted of murder.
Now, the witnesses who claim to see, uh, that the shooters were black.
Did not pin Carter to the scene.
They did not identify him as a suspect.
There was a female witness who called attention to a different suspect,
but that suspect said he was just robbing the place and he wasn't
responsible for any of the deaths.
And the, I will, I seriously have to say.
He ultimately, uh, was released from prison in the nineties, uh,
because the witnesses recanted and there was evidence to support that
he was never actually at that bar.
And seriously though, like that Bob Dylan song can sum up this case.
So, well, In eight minutes and then there's a 1999 movie
starring Denzel Washington.
That's about the same case that I've seen parts of.
And it's pretty good, but it's, it's really a case that
I've always found fascinating, particularly because of that song.
And I seriously would recommend anyone.
Who's got eight minutes to do the dishes or running errands or something.
Just throwing that song.
You will get a really great history lesson.
I
Sonia Meza-Leon: think I saw that movie.
Brittney Sherman: Yeah.
Did you see it?
I've seen parts of it.
Sonia Meza-Leon: I don't know what, I didn't see the whole thing I
Brittney Sherman: remember.
I know I do too.
Sonia Meza-Leon: All right.
Well, very.
So what I mean, what was the end result?
Did he get convicted?
Did he die?
No.
Brittney Sherman: No, he was, he was convicted, but, uh, he's
served like 20 years in prison.
And then.
Was released after witnesses, ultimately recanted.
And there was actually really no evidence to support that he was,
Sonia Meza-Leon: oh, well, that's awesome.
Wait to wait 20 freaking years.
Oh yeah.
Brittney Sherman: It's terrible.
Sonia Meza-Leon: How do you live with yourself even?
I mean, I would doubt myself like day one.
When it comes to someone's life in my hands.
I mean, that is on the list.
You know what I mean?
I think that S Isen things are deceiving, you know, when you're in
a moment and you think you're seeing something, or you thought you saw
something really clearly, but, you know, I mean, how well did you see it?
You know, it's just, it's, it's so tough.
All right.
Well, I like that one.
So you've got one left, right?
And your, your number, your, no, one's going to.
Brittney Sherman: All right.
So you, uh, you take us away for your
Sonia Meza-Leon: number one.
My number one is again, one of the west Memphis three, um, probably
the most well-known Damien Echols.
He was 18 years old when the crime occurred.
So of course he was, uh, an adult, um, and tried accordingly.
And I think the other two boys were as well.
I didn't think that they really cared at that point, um, because
the crime was so horrendous.
Um, Damien Echols.
Uh, from a poor family, he didn't attend school very often.
He had a girlfriend, they ran off.
Um, I don't know, they ran and broke into some trailer and then
equals was charged with burglary.
So he had some, you know, stuff.
I mean, he wasn't like a violent criminal.
He was just a dumb kid.
And I think when you watch paradise lost, you'll see that it's, what's terrifying
to me a bit when I watched that.
It really does appear to me in a lot of the video that they shot
at him that he doesn't have.
Um, he doesn't have any feelings about the situation.
Um, not that he doesn't have feelings about his own innocence,
but he, and a lot of people say, well, why would he have remorse?
He didn't do it.
But.
Respect for the situation is what I think was a bit missing.
And that really offended people.
Um, when you're talking about a crime that does this, this, let me just see these
little boys and what happened to them.
And, um, it, it was, you know, really, really horrendous and he, um, appeared
in court sometimes to be indifferent.
He.
Uh, I mean, he just didn't take it seriously.
And I don't know if any of them took it seriously.
I mean, obviously the guy who confessed, he didn't take it
seriously when he was confessing.
He just wanted to get out of there.
But, um, Damien Echols, you know, he was the perfect Patsy for this crime,
um, in Arkansas at the time, because again, it was such a Bible belt and this
was a kid who, you know, later on, I think they figured out that he had some
mental, um, Deficiencies as well yet.
Um, you know, grandiose and persecute, persecutory, delusions, auditory, and
visual hallucinations, disordered thought processes, substantial lack of insight
and chronic incapacitating mood swings.
Um, you know, he had some stuff going on and, um, he it's just really perplexing,
you know, I think that he thought it was a joke and I think he later, he even tried.
Say that he thought it was a joke that didn't take it seriously,
but it's when you watch it, it's, it's kind of offensive.
If you're sitting in a room full of people watching this trial go down
against these, these suspects and they aren't taking it seriously, or he
doesn't appear to be taking it seriously.
And isn't, isn't at least thoughtful about the situation it's, um, you really
dislike him and I'll tell you why.
I have an, uh, a feeling, an association with Damian.
And I don't not necessarily about this, but one of the big reasons as
these three kids were sort of targeted was because they were the poor kids.
They were the dark kids.
And when I say dark, I mean, they were, you know, they weren't the
jocks or the popular kids, you know, they were the outliers, they
listened to heavy metal music.
They wore black clothes, they had black fingernails.
I mean, they were, you know, The people associated them with being goth,
even though Jason Baldwin was a goth.
I mean, he was just a heavy metal kid.
He had a little mullet, like no big damn deal.
Um, I mean, it was really weird, but Damien Echols
definitely had played that part.
And then of course they found nonsense, um, you know, at Damien Echols
house, which they thought proved the point, they found like the satanic
Bible and some other literature.
And he had said at one point that he was in a WCA.
They hadn't read his binder and some of the poems he wrote and yeah, they
were a little dark, but I have to say, you know, what attracted me to this
case in particular was because I really felt like that they were ostracized
from their community because of those reasons they were considered punks,
um, satanic, you know, this was all about a set, a satanic ritual, um, So
unfair, these guys are kids, right.
And they're being persecuted like that just for being, you know,
not part of the popular group.
And I felt like that when I was young, you know, I definitely, my crowd was
a little more, uh, well, definitely more on the outlier side of things.
And, you know, we, Hey, we wore black w who cares.
Like, I don't know if that was like a big deal for us.
It wasn't like that defined us, but we, you know, We definitely didn't have that.
You know, I mean, when you're a teenager and you're not part of the popular group,
you're anything, if you're anything but the popular group, you're probably not
enjoying yourself that much, unless you're completely oblivious because you always,
those, the people who are the popular kids make sure, you know, you're not.
And that's where I feel for these guys, because it's so true.
They, they love it.
They enjoy it.
It's like, you know who, I mean, if they didn't bother you, it wouldn't
be one thing, but I know how it is.
They do bother you.
You know, they make, you know, all the time that you are not part
of the group, you do not fit in.
Um, and it it's crappy.
So, you know, this happened in 19.
Three, I think the, the murders and they were convicted in 1994, that
would, that's not that many years after I graduated from high school.
So it was probably around that same time, but it was, you know, I, I thought
that really was a bummer for those guys.
And so that's why there was a lot of support behind these guys, um, in,
especially in the heavy metal community.
Like I think Metallica allowed them to use like their music
for free and the paradigm.
Documentary.
I mean, there was a big following, like I had heard about west
Memphis three for a long time.
I mean, you know, because you've got, you know, once the misfits get
together and there's enough of them, then the misfits are the majority
and then shit kind of goes down.
And that's what happened was that everybody who had felt like.
An ever, you know, kind of banded together and said, no, we can't let this
happen to these guys because this is a circumstance that we could have been
in, in the right, at the right time.
But, um, that is my number.
Number one was Damien Echols and man, some terrible, these guys look in,
these guys were in jail for eight.
Years, 18 years from being teenagers.
So they grew up in jail, which is horrifying and terrible things happened
to them while they were in jail.
I mean, Damien Nichols, he was raped, you know, they were, it
was there, there, you know, what happens to child killers in jail?
You know, child molesters in jail, not good things, you know, I mean, they're.
They're in particular, they're very much targeted, you know, so, and these guys
were teenagers, they were young, so I really doubt they could defend themselves.
But, um, again, take a look at paradise loss.
It's a really interesting, um, documentary for sure.
And you can look at it in the pieces or you can look at it as a whole.
There's some crazy characters in that show as well.
It's, uh, you know, I kept thinking, Melissa, some of us was in Tennessee
and Memphis is in Tennessee, but this is actually Arkansas,
which is a different flavor.
Uh, folk.
So take a look, but that's my top three, Brittany, what's your number one.
Okay.
Brittney Sherman: So my number one, you could call number one, you
could call number one through five.
You could even call number one through 10 because my number
one is the central park five.
Sonia Meza-Leon: That's a good one.
That is a good
Brittney Sherman: one.
The central park five are five teenage boys who were a accused
of accused and convicted.
I should say of assault, robbery, riot.
Attempted murder, rape and sexual abuse.
And they ranged in the ages of 14 to 16.
And this is a, an event that took place on April 19th, 1989 in central park,
New York, between 9:00 PM to 10:00 PM on a woman named Tricia Mellie.
And.
Uh, these young boys who, um, were just kinda hanging out were really,
I mean, they're truly innocent kids.
Truly, um, so much so that one of the boys, the youngest
one still hadn't hit puberty.
So his, uh, the crime of rape was clearly not possible for him.
These boys were taken in for questioning that night.
They were held without their parents.
They were promised things like.
Food drinks, the ability to go home in order in exchange for confession.
So these immature young kids of horse.
Which we all know, having seen plenty of documentaries of true
crime series, listening to enough podcasts like this know that complying
with, without a parent or legal representative is the worst possible
situation for someone to be put in.
And of course they, uh, their confessions were held up, taken
to prison and are taken to court and they were sentenced to prison.
So.
The reason I say five, or there are up to 10 because that same
night in central park, there were other events that took place.
And there were actually five other teenagers that were indicted for.
Uh, assault and attacks on other persons, but it's these five boys in
particular that are referred to as the central park five that are, uh,
they were the ones that were held and convicted of rape and sexual assault.
And, um, four were ultimately convicted.
One was, uh, convicted on a lesser charge, but it was 16.
So he was tried as an adult.
All five of them were charged or convicted and sentenced to up to
15 years in prison and ultimately served between seven and eight years.
They were natural.
Uh, found not guilty.
And, um, their convictions were vacated in 2002.
It was an extremely, uh, uproarious event.
I was too young to remember the event, but I can look back and read
articles and watch footage of it.
And there was, there was a, um, Uh, a cry out for justice against them because
there was so much evidence that was incorrectly mounted against them, that
they never had a shot at a fair trial.
And it's, uh, there's a Netflix series and I, I want to call it
a great Netflix series by Ava DuVernay called when they see us.
But I hold on calling.
Great.
Not because it isn't, but because I had such a hard time watching it, I
literally watched the first episode and the treatment of these innocent
young, naive boys disturbed me so much.
I could not bring myself to watch the rest of it.
And I feel for the victim in this case too, because she was so badly
battered and bruised and raped.
She could not identify who attacked her.
So her assailant ultimately was never found.
She's obviously the victim in this case, in addition to these kids,
but she never got justice and these kids paid a price for something that
they never had anything to do with.
And naive Lee admitted to committing.
Just because they were looking for an out in the middle of
the night, trying to get home.
Sonia Meza-Leon: That is awful.
I have been meaning to watch that show or that series.
And, um, I know the subject matter is really tense and sensitive.
So I've been putting it off.
I have to be honest with you.
I'm sure.
It's awesome.
I love her.
I love the director, um,
Brittney Sherman: because it is so tense.
I, like I said, it made me so angry.
I couldn't keep watching it.
I needed to get back to it.
I need to do it justice to finish watching it, but it really pulled at me.
And really, it really got to me and upset me about the treatment
that, that we see on screen.
That is true to
Sonia Meza-Leon: life.
What, um, so what happened?
What did, what happened with this guys?
Did they like, let them go.
I mean, what was the.
Brittney Sherman: So they, they all served their time, uh,
between six and eight years.
And then in 2002, they, uh, petitioned and succeeded in having
their, their charges vacated.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Great.
Yes.
That's such
Brittney Sherman: bullshit.
Oh, it, it, yeah, it is.
It's just, it's, it's disgusting.
It's a horrible tragedy and miscarriage of the justice system.
Sonia Meza-Leon: What's that, I'm sorry for suggesting this topic, by the way,
Brittney Sherman: really started off on a downer.
I know.
Sonia Meza-Leon: I'm so sorry.
I was thinking about it and was looking at my list and then I'm like,
why don't I just Google, you know, wrongful convictions, the multitude.
I was, I was, I was overwhelmed and I couldn't, I, it would take me
weeks to read through all of them.
Um, the bigger ones, you know, I mean, I think that the exonerations are
going up, but you know, th the need for exoneration shouldn't happen either.
Um, but man, you know, you're, you're going to choose the top three next.
It's all you
Brittney Sherman: I'll try and be a little more lighthearted.
I w I will say, you know, to your point about exonerating, Going off and having
a sentences vacated, you know, a lot of credit goes to the innocence project or
projects who dedicates themselves to.
Going out there taking on cases, pro bono for wrongly convicted felons and
doing everything they can to return to trial, to overturn the cases based on
evidence that was either missed or skipped over or just ignored at the time that.
The convictions happened.
And so they really deserve
a
Sonia Meza-Leon: lot of credit.
Yeah, no, they think God, there are people out there who are supporting those
causes and you know, it's again, you know, it's, there's so many of them, so
it's so hard to get their voices heard, but I'm thankful that there's something
in place to, to help these folks.
Um, but the goal would be to reduce this number percentage greatly.
You know, I don't think that 10% is acceptable.
Brittney Sherman: It's a terrible amount is not acceptable.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Yep.
All right.
Scarlet as well.
There's our, uh, our, our top three for this week.
So our top three wrongful convictions.
Brittney Sherman: Um, after that, I need to, I need to cool down a little bit.
I know
Sonia Meza-Leon: I'm all right.
I know.
All right.
Thanks, Carlitos.
Brittney Sherman: Deep killing it.
Nana check out a couple other podcasters that support us, and
we want to give them some support.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Hey, fellow Scarlet, true crime listeners.
I'm CC the host of a new true crime podcast, sooner state, true crime as a
born and bred Oki I'll cover cases based in my wonderful home state of Oklahoma.
The term sooner actually refers to tutors in the land run.
My state's very first true crime.
New episodes are released twice a month in apple podcasts and most
podcasts ups or visit our website, anchor.fm/crime state to listen now.
So come away with me to my crime state on the sooner state true crime podcast.
And please stay sooner safe out there.
Y'all.
Hi everyone.
I'm Ariel Cooksey, host of malice.
When violent acts occur, we tend to think the predators are monsters.
Surely no human could do such things, but if we're honest, only
humans commit malicious crime.
And if you're like me, you want to know why to find out.
Join me at malice grabber.
You listen to podcasts by.
Hey, y'all I'm Brandon Hall.
I'm one of the hosts of music city, nine 11, a podcast about the good,
the bad, and the dark side of nine 11.
Dispatching me and my co-hosts are 9 1 1 dispatchers.
With over 60 years of experience, join us as we play 9 1 1 calls and discuss this.
Oh, did I mention that we get dark nine 11?
What's your emergency?
you can find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at music city nine 11, and we're
downloadable on every podcast platform.
Brittney Sherman: We want to give a shout out to the pod all
the time podcast network that we Scarlet TCP are proud members of
Sonia Meza-Leon: other members of the pod, all the time podcast network, our creative
intuitive, another digital citizen history of a haunting round and round the podcast.
Real AKA truth podcast, ruck up podcast, random unnamed podcast.
Surburban.
Three peas in a podcast, Ross sex podcast.
I think we're doing it podcast.
Brittney Sherman: So if you like what you're hearing from Scarlet TCP, check
out these other shows that members of the pod all the time podcast network.