If you want to be successful on LinkedIn, you absolutely need a pod, because you are going to need swarms of people to get up your arse and into your comment section.

And that is what success is.

That's Jo Watson.

And in case you didn't quite clock it, she's being very sarcastic.

She doesn't think that the only way to get successful is to join an engagement pod.

Let's take another look at LinkedIn's fake guru epidemic as we revisit the topic of engagement pods.

Welcome to the asylum.

LinkedIn will not like this podcast, but you will love it.

Behave, LinkedIn lunatics.

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If you're scrolling LinkedIn wondering why some posts with little substance go completely viral?

You're not alone.

The answer often lies with one of LinkedIn's dirtiest little secrets, engagement pods.

Let's get more of Joe's thoughts on engagement pods, shall we?

And if you've ever heard of this lady, you'll probably be able to guess which way she's gonna go.

Copywriter and GDI community owner Joe Watson.

We all know that it's about the likes.

It's all about how popular you are.

It's just like high school.

It really is.

It's just like the playground.

So, to be successful on LinkedIn, yeah, you probably need a pod, because that is the only way you're going to get any kind of validation.

And as we know, that is the life force that keeps you alive if you're going to be successful in business.

No, you're probably best staying away from these pods, because everyone will go, well, you're in a pod, so therefore there's no credibility.

So I will be steering clear, thank you.

So, in case you don't know, engagement pods are groups of people who commit to liking, commenting and sharing each other's content to trick the LinkedIn algorithm into promoting their posts.

But the mechanics of how these pods work and the tools that they use are becoming increasingly sophisticated.

Now, my friend Daniel hall has been masquerading as a podder within these very groups for a year or so now.

He's been getting the data and exposing the truth behind these organized groups.

Spot a pod legend, Daniel Hall.

I, of course, I can capture date and timestamps.

I was starting to see some pretty horrendous trends, which people were now being able to type, like, 196 words per minute, where the world record is 246.

And it's just like, there's no way.

There's no way some of these people can read the 200 word comment before what they just typed to and do that on and go engage on another comment and seven seconds later that's just, that's not humanly possible.

But it also helped me start spotapod, which was being present and calling out some other crap.

And then I started really digging into where all this data was coming from.

And you know me, I'm an ethical hacker and the rest is history.

I can get digital receipts on just about anybody that's using pods.

As Daniel points out there, pod activity often leaves a digital footprint.

Comments might come in waves or within minutes of a post going live.

The same individuals engage repeatedly and the comments often follow a praise, rephrase points from the post or generic phrases like great share.

And while that might fool LinkedIn's algorithm, it often fails to fool those paying close attention.

What Daniel hall and the Spot a POD campaign highlights here is critical engagement.

Pods aren't just about swapping comments anymore.

With these AI tools, comments can be generated that seem thoughtful and authentic and wise and popular.

These tools even rephrase parts of your own post to look a little bit like genuine engagement.

Although to the everyday user, something always seems a little bit off.

This creates a level of deceit that even seasoned LinkedIn users sometimes struggle to spot.

And here's where things get tricky.

Some people see these tactics as a necessary evil, something everyone does to stay competitive.

But others, like Libby Langley, seemingly don't see pods as that much of a threat in the real world at all.

Business coach Libby Langley Yes, I know.

Of people who do it.

I know of big name people who do it, but have I ever encountered it and has it ever impacted me?

Personally, I would say no is the answer to that, actually.

I know it happens, but there's lots of stuff that happens the business world over that you, it doesn't necessarily impact you and you don't necessarily get involved with.

So yeah, it's just one of many things.

But I mean people have been buying followers for years.

You know, people used to do it on Facebook 10 plus years ago.

So that it's not a new practice, right?

It's not one I choose to engage with, but it's not a new practice.

Libby's perspective on this is actually refreshing because for someone focused on their niche and audience, pods don't really pose a direct threat.

But not everyone has Libby's clarity of focus.

I know I don't.

Many professionals like Vicky even find it hard to tell what's real and what's fake.

Ghost author Vicky Quinn Fraser I'm not.

Very good at picking up on stuff like that, so I honestly don't know, but I get really suspicious when I see somebody post something and then 30 seconds later there's like a thousand comments on there and I'm like, really, though?

And so, yeah, that makes me wonder.

But I don't know if it put me off staying connected with them.

But I definitely would not go out of my way to interact with them for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, because I just think, well, they're not even going to see my comment unless I'm one of the first to comment, because who's got time to go through that many comments and responses?

But also because it's like our brains are not geared up to have conversations with that many people.

It's incredibly stressful and overwhelming and I just don't really want any part of it.

Vicky's neutral stance reveals a fundamental issue.

LinkedIn users, whether casual scrollers or seasoned professionals, often struggle to discern genuine engagement from artificial metrics.

This, of course, aligns with what Fred Koopstake shared with us in a previous episode.

Even highly intelligent business leaders can be fooled.

I mean, I know it took me at least a year to start to really clock what was happening here.

I asked more questions and I got more enigmatic answers.

Like I mentioned in the previous episode, one really highly popular creator on LinkedIn who used to actually post videos taking the piss out of engagement pods was actually running one of the biggest ones and invited me.

Of course, when I politely declined, I was immediately blocked.

So how can we spot a pod?

Well, funny that that's exactly the name of Daniel Hall's campaign.

He takes all this a step further by breaking down the data side of pods, the anomalies that, frankly, can give them away.

Daniel Hall.

So I'm not saying that 90, 90% of LinkedIn is fake, but I will say easily 25%.

When people are approached by what I call connection kingpins.

Those are the people you won't find in a pod, but they will continuously be on the lookout for people that are in a pod, especially these automated pods, because what they do is they'll get them to come and engage in their content and maybe offer them, you know, some type of reward for doing that.

So pay to play or you're.

You're getting paid to play.

And what those people bring to the table for these connection kingpins is one request for engagement can get these connection king pins.

Two to 300 reactions.

That's just one person.

So if you take you and I Now it's like 400 to 500 reactions and maybe a couple hundred comments.

And these automated pod platforms can do this at incredible rates, like 10 to 20 second intervals.

They can just completely unload a podcast onto a post within about 30 minutes.

So if you get people, if you get 30 or 40 of those people that are in pods and they're engaging in that connection kingpins activity, that's massive.

That's massive engagement.

But here's the thing, connection kingpins don't have to look for those people.

Why not go on and create 20 or 30 fake accounts and just have those go right after your.

Your content, Your own content.

So basically, you know it's fake, I'm going to know it's fake, and the world's going to know it's fake.

People are always going to remember how you make them feel.

So there's your 25% right there.

250,000 users I safely say are fake on LinkedIn.

So does any of this actually even matter?

For Libby, the answer's no.

As she mentioned earlier, she's never felt personally impacted by engagement pods.

But that doesn't mean that pods aren't causing broader harm.

When artificial engagement becomes the norm, it erodes trust in the platform overall.

And the real victims are often users like Vicky, who are left questioning what's real and what's staged.

But here's the bigger many users don't even know that engagement pods exist.

Or if they do, they wouldn't even know what to look for or where to go to see them.

They assume every like comment or share is genuine.

Why wouldn't they?

And this is exactly what makes fake gurus thrive.

These individuals inflate their metrics to appear more successful than they are.

Using pods as a springboard to sell courses, consulting, or other services.

It's not just misleading, it's frankly, predatory.

While the problem of engagement pods might seem like an abstract issue, Daniel Hall's research brings the reality into sharp focus.

He explains how these artificial systems create ripple effects far beyond the LinkedIn algorithm.

Because I've in thousands of pods and some of them are automated AI pods, I was able to make all these people that were in my pods say what I wanted them to say, whether it was a fart joke, whether it was talking about how bad pods are or, you know, whatever the color of the week was, whatever.

But I would always have them out themselves as being in a pod in the comment, because I can tell the pod platform what I want them to say.

So basically, they are the dummy and I'm the ventriloquist.

The dummy is going to say, hey, I'm in a pod.

Here's a fart joke for you.

That was to show people, one, who they could flush from their network, and two, you know, just, just have a fun time looking at what people were going to say, because people would keep showing up wondering what joke it was going to be.

But here's a scary thing.

If I was spreading fake news and I was able to get all the dummies to say what I wanted them to say, I could make them say something that would be treasonous and their government could come after them.

That's just, that's going to destroy your brand right there.

People needed to see that.

How easy.

And I did that, Neil.

Here's full disclosure.

I did that with a fake account.

I did not use my real LinkedIn account for that.

That was a completely fake account.

It was a free account on one of these automated platforms I didn't even need.

And I could have created 20 or 30 of those free accounts.

So you see, when I talk about connection kingpins, it all ties together on how they can get all this engagement by people.

We have no idea who those people are that are engaging with them.

So, yeah, Potapalooza was, was both eye opening for people and kind of hysterical.

Some people were really disturbed, but at the same time they were pleasantly surprised that, you know, or grateful for the laugh and that their eyes were open.

So there we go.

As Daniel points out, pods don't just inflate metrics, they drown out authentic voices.

For every fake guru you see whose post goes viral thanks to an engagement pod, like the likes of Alex Homose, Stephen Bartlett, Gary Vaynerchuk, Neil Patel, Justin Welch, Luke Matthews, Lara Costa, Jasmine, Alec, Matt Barker.

For every one of these people getting all the attention for frankly vague, banal insight, there's another thoughtful creator whose content, which is actually valuable, gets buried.

We don't get to hear the insights from someone who's been in business for 15 to 20 years, bought and sold companies, made money, created the perfect life for them.

We don't get to hear that person's stories because some bloke from Manchester who has a podcast and pays serious wonga to get that podcast high in the charts and pays more serious wonga to get their LinkedIn posts with his frankly basic level hyperbole grabbed in a canvas slide seen by the masses.

For me, that's a problem.

And that for LinkedIn as a platform, could become a very serious problem.

Sophie Lee adds another layer to this discussion by highlighting how the platform itself actually exacerbates the issue.

Sophie Lee I think LinkedIn is the same as Instagram, and actually Instagram deliberately puts these posts in front of people who are going to rage.

Comment.

That's the algorithm on Instagram.

You're so much more likely to get higher engagement rates if you're doing something or you are somebody who people can get behind and hate.

Like, that's.

That it sucks.

And that's.

But that's true.

And I think with LinkedIn, they don't care how you're getting the engagement.

They just want you to get the engagement because the engagement is what boosts the platform.

I think at the end of the day, it's a social platform, and social platforms want there to be an engagement rate.

I can only.

I can only assume that.

I don't know that for sure, but I'm comparing it to what we see in platforms like Instagram who actually pay creators per engagement.

That's something that they're looking for from these creators and actively, then they call it the wrong side of the algorithm.

It's engagement for the sake of rage.

And if you think about the amount of content that has been created about LinkedIn on the back of this outrage, if that outreach shouldn't exist, this podcast might not exist.

Every single person that's ever posted about how annoyed they are with LinkedIn wouldn't exist.

And one thing that I know for sure is that any content that talks about LinkedIn gets a higher reach, which often leads to a higher engagement rate, because they love to put their platform out in front of people.

And I don't even think that's necessarily, like, I don't know if anyone sat around a strategic table and said, like, this is what we need to do, but I bet you that at some point they had a conversation and said, well, actually, this is getting us in conversations on and off the platform that we would not be in otherwise, because it's not that exciting to be like, oh, well done, LinkedIn.

You did something great.

But it is exciting to be.

I can't believe that they're letting this happen and that's what we're doing.

The thing is, though, when you've got the monopoly in the way that they do, why would they care whether it's going to have a negative impact on them?

Yeah, Sophie's take is a sobering one.

The platform isn't built to distinguish between meaningful interactions and manipulative tactics.

Instead, it prioritizes activity, any activity, which means pods can thrive at least in the short term.

And this creates a vicious cycle.

Engagement pod members gain visibility, their posts are promoted, genuine creators are left wondering why their carefully crafted content isn't getting any views or engagement.

And as Daniel mentioned earlier, the data tells the story.

Posts with predictable patterns of engagement, comments that come in waves, generic responses, and a lack of genuine conversation are often pod driven.

Recognizing these patterns is the first step in breaking free from their influence.

Well, there are some influencers, and I could probably count them on one hand.

Real ones who grow their presence through authentic engagement.

Even the ones that say they're not in an engagement pod now but have thousands of followers, probably have benefited from it in the past.

They probably tested it, realized it wasn't completely for them, and then came out.

That gives them plausible deniability.

It doesn't completely excuse them from all blame.

But as Libby said, and I think it's worth remembering and reminding, focusing on your niche and audience can shield you from all this noise.

And as Vicky says, it's still possible to find genuinely valuable content on LinkedIn.

It just takes more effort to sift through that noise.

Vicky Quinn Fraser There is so much.

Wrong with social media, but there is so much to thank it for as well.

Because one of my best friends lives in Canada and we not only are like, I went to her wedding, we are literally besties.

We see each other as often as we can.

I've got another really, really good friend who lives in Oregon and I've never met her in real life, but if she needed me, I would drop everything and get on a flight over to her.

And I know that she would do the same for me.

You know, there's people in this country as well that I don't necessarily see very often in real life, but we talk all the time, kind of, you know, via the Internet.

So absolutely 100%.

I've made, you know, I've made what I hope are lifelong friendships via LinkedIn, via, you know, various groups that I've been in.

So how do we move forward?

Well, I think we've got two very simple choices.

Choice one, if you can't beat them, join them.

Get yourself in an engagement pod and use the system for you rather than against you.

The problem being that is probably going to tarnish your reputation in the longer term.

It will impact on your business and people will be whispering behind your back.

That could impact on your opportunity to make connections and network.

So I think we're left with choice number two.

Let's get smarter.

If a post has hundreds of comments within minutes.

Look a bit more closely.

Are the comments varied and thoughtful or are they repetitive and generic?

If they are, then you should probably ask yourself if it's worth keeping a distance.

Align yourself with creators who add real value, people who engage thoughtfully and provide insights you can actually use and lean into.

We will definitely be revisiting this topic again because it is such a deep topic, but hopefully you've enjoyed the insights from this episode of the Asylum podcast and and let's wrap this up.

Engagement pods might create the illusion of success, but real growth comes from your authenticity.

Don't get caught up in the numbers.

Focus on building genuine connections and creating real, solid value.

Thanks for listening.

Leave us a review and follow the podcast and I'll talk to you next time you visit the Asylum.

Goodbye.

Watch your back you, and we'll talk to you soon.

On another episode of the Asylum.