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Corey Baldwin is the head men's basketball coach at South Georgia State College.

During his tenure, which began in 2009, the Hawks have won more than 340 games, won three conference tournaments, and played in the NJCAA national tournament in 2023, 2021 and 2011.

110 student athletes have moved on to continue their education at four year institutions while playing basketball at the four year level.

Also, 94% of Baldwin's basketball players have graduated with an associate's degree before moving on.

In addition, the hawks have had seven NJCAA all Americans in just 15 seasons of competition and 14 NJCAA academic all Americans.

Baldwin previously served as the head coach at Truett McConnell College for three seasons from 2006 to 2009 and as an assistant coach at Clayton State University for seven seasons where he also played his college basketball.

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You'll want to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Corey Baldwin, head men's basketball coach at South Georgia State College.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast.

It's Mike Cleansing here without my co host Jason Suckel tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Corey Baldwin, head men's basketball coach at South Georgia State College.

Corey, welcome to the Hoop Heads pod.

Oh, glad to be here man.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely thrilled to have you on looking forward to diving into all the things that you've been able to do in your career.

Let's start by going back in time to when you were a kid.

Tell me a little bit about your first experiences with the game of basketball.

What made you fall in love with it?

How'd you get involved?

Well, I was kind of lucky.

I did not grow up in a coach's house like a lot of other coaches do, you know, get in the family business.

But my mom was the youngest of eight and all of her brothers and sisters had kids.

So I was the youngest of the next generation for the cousins.

So all the cousins played ball all the time and in order to keep up with the older ones, you know that that's what I had to learn to do was hit open jump shot right.

Couldn't drive and playing out in the front yard or wherever, you know, Thanksgiving games were always competitive and you know, just really fell in love with it.

I had a, a sister and an older brother and my older brother was a real good athlete, played everything.

But my sister was player at Georgia Tech.

She ended up being Miss Georgia Basketball.

She played at Georgia Tech and played all four years, was a three year starter and still in the top five or ten in some categories and she could really shoot it.

So I had to get good fast because I was always known as you're not as good as your sister so you know that, that, that'll make you go and you know a pretty funny story, it's not as good as the Reggie Miller, Cheryl Miller story, but it's very similar.

We had a rival in middle school that if you're from where I'm from, south Atlanta area, Clayton County.

I grew up in Riverdale and Jonesboro area, and that's right south of the airport.

There was a middle school in Mundy's Mills, where I went.

And our arrival was point south and would make no sense to anyone listening.

But stay with me.

I had, you know, 20 or 22 as a.

As a seventh grader in an eighth grade game and against the big rival.

And I couldn't wait and call and tell my sister.

And me and my dad got on the phone to tell her, and we're bragging, and I was like, I didn't even.

I didn't even think to ask you, how'd you do?

Y'all were at Alabama tonight, and she had 42.

So that.

That kind of squashed my 22.

But anyway, so those were.

Those were, you know, I just love basketball, love being competitive.

I played football a lot.

I was a, you know, spread option quarterback back before that was popular.

You know, a little.

Little scat back, running around, throwing it, and so always love sports.

Football helped me a lot, honestly, in coaching.

You know, you deal with so many different people and different things, but that was where my love came.

Like every.

Like most, I wanted to play.

You know, that was what I wanted.

And when I got to middle school, I played for a real good middle school coach.

And I decided in about seventh grade, I was gonna coach middle school base basketball and football and wear shorts every day and teach health or something.

And that was my goal all the way up until about my first two weeks of practicing at Clayton State as a freshman.

And I realized, man, I want to coach college, and the rest is history, as they like to say.

All right, so tell me a little bit about you as a player, thinking the game as a coach, because I think a lot of times what you'll see is you'll have the people who write, they play, and they're completely focused on being a player.

Then you have other people who they're playing, but they're already starting to think about, hey, I might want to coach.

So when you think about yourself as a player, let's say at the high school level, were you still thinking of yourself strictly as I'm looking at the game through my own lens as a player, or were you starting to look at the game from a coaching perspective in addition to what you were doing as a player?

I think I always had a little bit of that wanted to be a coach in me.

And, you know, I had some uncles that coached travel ball, mainly softball and baseball.

But, you know, they kind of got Me that bug, you know, and like a lot of, you know, older men sitting around watching sports or that played sports, you know, they're all what they would have done, you know, Bobby Cox or.

Or Jerry Glanville or the Falcons back then.

You know, they should have done this, that and the other.

And you kind of start thinking those things, you know, in your head and challenging yourself.

And then when you start playing, you realize sometimes it's a little different than the old armchair quarterback stuff.

And of course, you really realize it when you found a coach, but for sure.

But.

But I definitely did some, you know, I, I would always think, you know, think about, you know, diff.

Different things, different perspective.

Like, you know, man, I wonder why coach said that or did that.

And I was always trying to kind of figure it out from his side, not just from my side.

You think about your high school coach, and then you think about yourself and the type of coach that you are and the personality that you bring to the table.

What's something from your high school coach that you feel like still influences you today that's a part of your coaching style or what you believe that you learned from him back in the day?

Man, I.

I took a lot from a lot of coaches, tidbits and personalities and drills and everything, you know, from ones I played through my.

My whole life and ones I worked for and ones you scouted and recruited.

You know, all that stuff.

But.

But with the last high school coach I had, I played for three different ones.

But the last high school coach I had, his name was David justice, and it was not the outfielder for the Atlanta Braves, but he.

He was a very.

I think the neatest thing about him was he.

He had a way of getting all guys and.

And still being able to be, you know, your guy.

You know, he never belittled you to the point that you.

You just didn't.

Some.

You know how it can be sometimes.

I'll play for other guys for sure, and I even.

I've done it sometimes in which I haven't, you know, where you.

But he was.

He was great.

You know, you always wanted to play for him.

You always wanted to do good for him because he just had that great personality and he had a.

Just a way of carrying himself.

I would like to think I.

I took some of that.

I don't know if I did, but I definitely tried to.

And he could be a good.

A good, you know, smarty britches, lack of a better term as well.

You know, he could get.

He was.

He was very witty and he would get, get, get you pretty good, you know, and he was fun to play for.

The middle school coach I played for was very fiery and competitive and really loved, you know, teaching individuals.

And I'd like to think I.

Coach Toler was his name.

I'd like to think I took a lot from him as well.

And, you know, I think the world of him.

I was, I was lucky.

I played for Jimmy Hebron in college at Clayton State.

He was a longtime assistant for Bobby Crimmins at Georgia Tech.

And, you know, he was, he was just a different guy, kind of odd, peculiar guy.

We're probably more opposite than, than, you know, than anyone else, but at the same time I have some similarities.

He was, you know, a New Yorker or definitely our accidents wasn't the same, but, you know, he was a New York City guy, you know, and, but I learned a lot from him and he loved basketball and he loved telling stories about basketball.

When I worked for him, my favorite time of the day was lunch because about three days a week we'd go eat together.

And I just knew I was just going to get them going on stories about somebody eco.

You know what I mean?

That was going to be the whole thing.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

I couldn't wait for it, you know, so then, last one, the guy I worked for, Gordon Gibbs, I worked for Hebron for two years and I worked for Gordon Gibbons for five, and he's kind of a Division 2 legend.

He, he's.

He's also coached with CBA a long time and, and some of the other smaller pro basketball leagues.

And he, he, you know, kind of a Florida legend.

And he came into his career up to Atlanta and, you know, he was such an attention to detail guy.

Never really been around somebody like that.

You know, you almost felt like you were working for somebody that was a senator or something at times, how he approached the everyday practice and game.

And I really loved working with him.

And he was probably one of the funniest guys I've ever been around.

Great sense of humor and able to.

Being able to pull from all the different influences that you've had, both the guys you played for and then obviously coaches you worked with and under.

I think that's a huge piece of developing yourself and, and figuring out who you are as a coach, because a lot of times, you know, again, it depends on how much experience you have in terms of both as a player and then eventually as a coach, who you can, who you can draw from.

I often give the example, Corey, that, like, when I was My first coaching job, I had basically played for.

Unlike you, I played for one high school coach, and then I played for the same college coach for four years.

And so when I got my first coaching job, that what those guys had done was pretty much all I knew.

I mean, I thought I.

I thought I knew a lot because I thought I was a good player and I thought basketball was an important part of my life.

But when you look back, you're like, yeah, I don't really know anything except what those two guys had done.

And if there was anything outside of the realm of drills or philosophy or the way they approach things, I really had no idea because those were the only two basketball experiences that I really had from that standpoint.

And so it's just interesting.

Again, the more people that you have that pour into you that you're able to draw from, then again, it just expands your knowledge and allows you to figure out like, hey, what do I like about this?

What do I not like about that?

What am I going to take?

How am I going to incorporate that into what I'm going to do?

And I think that's all part of a progression that everybody goes through in their, in their career.

You mentioned that two weeks into your college career, that that was kind of where you're like, okay, I want to coach college, but let's work back from that.

Tell me about the process of, of choosing a school and going through and, and being recruited to whatever degree you were recruited and just what that experience was like for you and ultimately what made you make your decision that you did.

You know, I really wanted to play football, I thought, going into 11th grade, um.

Cause I'd had some success and was able to play a little bit of varsity at quarterback and obviously, you know, quarterback, if you play that, you know, you get a lot of attention.

And, and I thought that was kind of what I was.

Even though I wasn't tall, I'm 5 10, so I knew, I knew that was a challenge.

Nowadays every quarterback's 5 10, but back when I was, most of them were 6, 4 or bigger.

And so since I couldn't do, you know, in my mind, I started kind of seeing that.

And, you know, I really delved in more to basketball, which doesn't make a lot of sense either because every playing basketball is way taller.

But.

But anyway, glad no one told me that part.

Right.

But I really got a lot serious, a lot more serious in 11th grade and, you know, started getting, you know, some, some attention for that as well.

AAU was, was getting Big, but it still wasn't like it is now by any stretch of the imagination.

And I had played some with Team Georgia, with Al Outlaw, but off and on, because again, I played football, so I couldn't play it a lot.

So, you know, I was, I was kind of lucky though, you know, my sister again was being such a good player, even though it was on the women's side.

She knew some coaches and, you know, I was getting some attention and we'd had, I'd had a very good senior year and I ended up visiting Tennessee Temple, Kennesaw State and Clayton State.

And I really wanted to go to Lee University.

And they, they, I couldn't ever visit them, though they did.

They didn't want me to go there.

That was where I thought I fit.

You know how it is sometimes you're trying to fit a square in a circle.

And it didn't.

That wasn't it for sure.

And Kenneth Temple offered me.

Kennesaw ended up not offering me.

I thought I had a pretty good visit, kind of thought it was coming.

It didn't.

And which is funny that that was Clayton State's big rival my whole time there as a player and coach.

So it was kind of funny that, you know, they didn't offer that.

Just added, I guess, more, more to the rivalry.

If anybody needed any more, I could throw that in there, right?

And.

But at Clayton State ended up, you know, offering me kind of a recruited walk on spot.

And because I was in Clayton county, where I live, you know, it worked out and it made a lot of sense.

So I did it and you know, and that was the, the current.

Was a long time ad, not the current one anymore, but long time AD at the time was the basketball coach.

He offered me that spot, got me on, and then he ended up moving to just athletic director.

And then he hired Jimmy Hebron, who I played for.

So it was kind of weird that I didn't get that opportunity with Hebron initially, but that was, you know, who I ended up playing for.

And again those first two weeks, I was just amazed at how much stuff college basketball was.

I really was naive even even though I had a sister who played playing and, and playing yourself for two different things, you know, and I just couldn't believe it.

I couldn't believe we, we had an assistant coach at the time, Dennis Walsh, who if anybody, you know, if anybody listens to this and you don't know that is look it up.

I'm sure he's got a Wikipedia.

He was an assistant at about seven or eight different division ones.

And he had worked Billy Tubbs and you know, been with a lot of different staffs and you know, I just, man, if he was driving, we used to drive two separate vans to games back then.

I always got in the front seat of his van just so I could hear all the stories.

He coached Reggie Lewis, he was, he was on that staff at Northeastern and man, just had great stories, man, story after story, name drop after name drop.

And you know, some of that probably made me want to get in it too.

You know, just the way he had glorified everything he had done, that makes.

A lot of sense.

I mean, I think when you just drop yourself into that, especially when you're surrounded by good people, right?

You already had in your mind that coaching was a direction that you thought you wanted to go.

And now all of a sudden you're surrounded by these guys who have had all these career experiences and are able to relate those to you and share them with you.

And I think, I'm sure that looking back that that had a big influence on just your decision to, hey, I think maybe I'll forego the middle school teaching route and get right into having an opportunity to coach at the college level.

When you think about the time at Clayton State as a player and now you're starting to think about coaching at the college level, were you, were you talking to the coaches about, hey, I think I want to get into coaching someday.

Were you kind of trying to, I don't know if get behind the scenes is the right word, but were you trying to ask them maybe more questions from a coaching perspective in addition to trying to maximize what you, what you were as a player?

I was really got into it probably my junior year of college, deciding to kind of do some background work and, you know, let people know, hey, I'm, I want to coach college.

And we had the staff expanded that year to a third, a second assistant, so a third coach.

So it was Coach Hebron, Coach Walsh, and then they added Brandon Johnson.

And I'd never been around a younger, just so energetic and just everything he did was about moving up and coaching.

And he had eventually became an associate head coach for a while at Auburn under Jeff Lebo.

And he had kind of been around some other staffs in Division 1 after Clayton, but this was when he was first getting started and when we were in study hall and when I was supposed to be studying, I would usually be picking his brain non stop.

That was my studying.

And I would just, I mean, I think sometimes he wanted to like, come on, man.

They all call me cb I think he's like, cb, can, can you just pretend you're studying something for a minute?

So I mean, but I would just non stop, like, what would you do here?

What camps would you work?

Should I coach an AAU team?

Should I?

You know, just throwing stuff at them non stop.

And you know, that was the, the time when camps were.

I probably wasn't in the biggest heyday, but it was still pretty big, you know.

90.

Yep.

98, 97, 98, 99.

I worked so many camps.

2000, 2001.

During those era, during that time I worked so many camps, I mean, met so many people and you know, you're able to just practice coaching with kids, you know, where nobody knows you and then you're able to network and do coaching clinic type things at night, you know.

And what was your favorite camp?

What was your favorite camp you work?

Probably Louisville.

I was able to work that the first two years Rick Patino was there and loved it.

And the last year I was the commissioner of a whole age and man, that was pretty cool.

I'd never done that.

Probably second would be I'm biased but you know, Georgia Tech guy.

I love Georgia Tech.

Worked Bobby Trimming's camps all the time.

Loved his.

And then Cliff Ellis had real good camps at Auburn.

I used to really enjoy working those as well.

Yeah, it's amazing how again, this is a shift and we've had this conversation before a bunch of times on the podcast, but just when you think about the way that youth basketball slash the way that just the summertime ritual of basketball for high school, middle school players has changed from the era when you and I grew up or even this era that we're talking about in the late 90s where you had much more of sort of the quote unquote, old school traditional camps, especially on college campuses, you think about five star and what that used to be back in the day and playing outside on the tennis courts and yes, 95, yeah, 95 degrees.

And you know, now you look at the way that players who are again, especially you're talking about the top players around the country, just the way that they're playing all the time in air conditioned gyms and the number of games they're playing and the idea of playing basketball outside is, is lost to this whole generation.

And so it's really, it is interesting to go back and think about sort of the path that you took, which is one that was, is pretty common of guys that, you know, are our Age to be out on the camp circuit and network and get to know people and all that kind of thing.

And you know that those connections then lead you to the opportunity to be employed or be hired by somebody that you made a connection with.

And a lot of that stuff, not that it's completely disappeared, but it certainly isn't nearly as important in starting your career as a coach.

The number of people that I've talked to that again are of our age that went the route that you did with working camp and making those connections and all that.

I mean, that was a really, really, really important pathway.

And now unfortunately, that's been diminished because I think I, I know I wouldn't trade the experiences that I had at camp, both as a player and the times that I went and worked at, you know, various camps.

I mean, I wouldn't trade those for the world.

I'm sure you feel the same way.

You know, it's unbelievable when you say it.

I'm sitting here thinking in my head, there's so many guys, you know, I remember Florida, Wake Forest, University of Georgia or three that come to mind with guys that, and, and Auburn that I mentioned already.

Guys that I still talk to today that work those camps.

And the first time I met them was working those camps, you know, and just, just a different world.

And some of those guys were, you know, smaller level college coaches, some of them are high school coaches.

And again now, you know, it's just not the same.

A lot of four year schools don't even do them like they used to do them.

You know, it's.

Not everyone doesn't do them anymore.

Which is crazy to think if you're in our generation.

Yeah, so absolutely.

I remember I worked University of Michigan's camp at when, when the Fab Five was there when I was still.

When I was in college.

Nice.

And, and the thing that the, the memory that sticks out for me more than anything from that camp.

And actually I had started doing the camps that I do.

I stole the, the best idea I stole from that camp was blow the whistle and everybody in the camp gets in triple threat.

And of course now my little day camps here in Cleveland, Ohio, or maybe when I started, I might have had 30 kids.

Pretty impressive.

You know, on the first day you teach the kids that and the second day the parents come in, you blow the whistle and they all jump stop and they're all frozen, ready to listen.

It was pretty cool.

But when you think about it at the University of Michigan when they had 500 or 600 kids and the whistle, the whistle blows and boom.

It's like instantaneous.

Everybody's in triple threat and silent and then like, I'm an Ohio guy.

But they would sing, they'd sing Hail to the Victors, you know, all 500 kids at night during the camp.

And those are just things that you remember that you're just like.

I mean, to have that stuff kind of go away, you know, it's.

It's good that it lives on in memories of, of old guys like you and me.

You know, the neat thing I like, at Tino's camp in Louisville, he allowed you to press, which no camp ever allows you to press in games, right?

For sure.

And he allowed you to press if you wanted to put in a press.

I was like, I was like coaching at 12U.

And we were pressing the whole time we were having.

That's funny.

So I've never seen that.

And I'll tell you a neat one.

John Freeman's, who's an assistant now at Vanderbilt.

I coached his.

This shows you how old I am.

I coached his maybe 10.

You.

I'm going to say it was 12 years.

Sounds better team.

And we, we won the camp championship, which was his uncle's camp, you know, Bobby Crimmins, right?

Georgia Tech on the, on the big Coliseum floor.

And you know, he'll, he'll still make some jokes about that today, like, yeah, yeah, you know, Stevie, Coach, can you believe that?

Got that.

True.

Got that trophy.

Got that trophy still up on the mantle.

You know, the, the, the patino.

The Patino thing's funny to me because again, when you think about what, like I, when you say Rick Patino and press, what's funny is I don't necessarily even think about any of his college teams.

I just think about him pressing with the Celtics when he, when he was the coach and you know, when he was the coach for Boston, that it was one of those conversations that sometimes you'll have with other people.

Like, man, in the NBA, like, why doesn't anybody.

Why doesn't anybody ever try to press?

You know, it seems like that, you know, it's so prevalent at every other level of basketball.

There's always a party that's like, man, why, why doesn't the team try that?

And of course Pitino tried it and then was, you know, roundly, roundly dismissed as this guy's an idiot.

Doesn't know what he's doing at the, at the pro level.

But it's funny that he had teams pressing, pressing at, pressing at camp because obviously that's something that was a trademark throughout his career, without question.

That was awesome.

And another neat one that I saw evolve before the camps went away.

That was neat for guys, you know, that are younger than us might enjoy enjoy.

It is.

I remember working camps and the players would work them and they would play pickup at night and you were at a good place.

Like I've heard unbelievable stories about Carolina and Duke.

I never worked their camps, but I know at Wake Forest, you know, Tim Duncan would come and work, you know, play at night.

And at Georgia Tech, because it was in Atlanta, you, you would, you know, Kevin Garnett, Dominique Wilkins, Stephon Marbury and then the whole list of Georgia Tech guys with Marbury, you know, would be there be unbelievable.

Ron's but the neat part was that evolved into the when the guys started doing European tours and their team would practice real early before camp and they would allow you as coaches to come in and take notes and watch it.

And I did that at Florida.

They had just lost in the the championship game to Cleaves Michigan State team and they were going on a year a European tour that summer.

And I can remember, is it Bonner?

Was that his name?

The real good shooter.

Ready?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yep.

Matt Bonner.

Matt Bonner, yeah.

So we would get there, it's about 5:30 in the morning, they would practice 6 and he would already be just drenched with sweat.

He would do a whole shooting workout from like 5:15, 5:00 till practice started.

And man, it was awesome.

Like that was, that was better than a coaching clinic watching Billy Donovan, you know, run a practice.

And then you work, you know, then you stayed up all night and told coaching stories and you know, you slept about two hours.

But hey, it was, it was worth it, man.

It's fun.

Isn't that the truth?

Here's what's.

I'll give you, I'll give you another funny one from my perspective.

So when I was a kid, I always went to Ohio State's basketball camp.

So when I first started, I think it was Eldon Miller.

And then eventually Gary Williams and Randy Ayers ran it because he was the assistant there.

And you go to camp and obviously whatever, you get the 7am wake up call or the 7:30am wake up call, whatever, and you come in and you're getting your day started out on the court and whatever.

And sometimes coaches are looking a little bedraggled there at, you know, 7:30 in the morning, but you kind of have no idea really what's going on behind the scenes because Again, as a kid, you just, you know, you go back to the dorm room and you go to sleep and you're not really thinking about what the coaches are doing.

And then when I was in college, I worked Ohio State's camp and as soon, as soon as all the campers are in the dorm, everybody's like, all right, where are we going?

You know, what are we doing?

Where are we going?

And what's, what's going to, you know, what's going to happen?

In the last night at Ohio States camp, they had this tradition of, they would, all, all the coaches would go and meet and have like, you know, pizza and beer at the, at the varsity club.

And they made everybody who was a new coach had to stand up and you had to tell a joke in at this, whatever this, this gathering, this get together.

And of course, all, you know, all the new people would, you know, they catch you off guard, she didn't know you were going to do it.

So they'd all have these, you know, people would come up with these terrible, whatever, knock, knock jokes or, you know, stupid things.

And then the guys who had been there for a long time, those coaches, those coaches would be there and they would, they'd come up, I mean, they would just go, I mean, you know, you're talking, it's like two, three in the morning.

And then like you said, you get like two hours of sleep.

And as a kid, you have no idea that any of that stuff's going on while you're, while you're, while you're asleep in the dorm.

Classic.

I, I, another last one.

Matthew Drispell was the assistant at Clemson, now the head coach, North Florida.

And they would run this huge team camp and I would, they would give me one gym to run and they would let me hire three or four refs, you know, players usually, or buddies or whatever.

And so we'd have four guys in the gym and we'd rotate, keeping score, rest in a game and you'd ref with two guys.

So you rest two games, you do a clock one game, rest the game, and then you rotate again.

And he would, they would always give me the gym with no ac and so drift going in would give me a hard time.

Like, man, you know, why do you keep coming back?

Yada, yada, yada, you know, just, it was, but anyway, in Clemson there's, you know, everything closes pretty early.

That's a rare, like, that's not, that's a different college town.

You know, it's very small and in the summer it's hardly anything open.

And so guys would get pretty creative for those coaching nights out, I can tell you.

They would go, some of them run to Atlanta and you know, you're like, what are you doing, man?

But anyway, kind of funny how those, some of those guys, that's their spring break.

Some of those guys that work those camps.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, you figure they're like, hey, it's just, it's a week.

It's a week free to head out.

To head out to the bar at night after you get everybody to sleep.

And yeah, it was a, It's a whole.

That was, that was eye opening for me when I was 19 years old and went to Ohio State for that.

I think that was the first, that was the first camp I, I ever worked.

And I just remember it being completely like, I had no, no idea whatsoever that anything remotely close to that went on.

So that was definitely an eye opener for, for me.

All right, let's get back to your story.

Okay.

As you're getting ready to graduate, obviously you sort of selected, hey, this is my career path.

I, I want to coach college basketball.

So you obviously end up back at Clayton State.

But what's the, what's the process for starting to look for a job?

And just where's your mindset as you're getting ready to graduate?

You know, I really didn't know.

I kind of was hoping I might could stay there.

We didn't have graduate school.

I was still.

I think I still had about eight classes left to graduate because I'd changed major a couple of times and I was trying to figure out, uh, Coach Hebron had talked to me about maybe going to a couple of schools in state and, and finishing and helping being more of a student assistant.

And there was just a lot of balls in the air.

I didn't know what was going to happen.

Uh, he wanted me to, to run our camps because I'd worked camps all four years there as well.

And he said, you're going to run them this year.

Uh, you know, and I'm.

And they were interviewing for another assistant coach Johnson.

Brandon Johnson had left.

We had another guy in between.

I don't, I can't remember.

He had left.

He wasn't there very long.

And so anyway, I was just kind of filling in and I was.

Might stay and be a student assistant.

And about after the second, I think we had three camps after the second when he told me, you're definitely going to stay here and be student assistant, let's get you graduated here.

We'll cover those classes, everything will work out.

I'm so excited.

And then he interviewed two guys and after they left, I was there for both interviews.

He wanted me to be there.

And he looked at me and Coach Walsh and he said, I just don't really like either one coach.

He goes, all right, cb, here's the deal.

He goes, when I was at Georgia Tech, they hired Bill Curry to coach football.

And when they offered him the job, they, they, someone later asked him, were you ready for it?

And he said no, but if I would have waited till I was ready, that wasn't when they offered it.

And he said, I think that's going to be you right now.

You're not ready for this, but we're going to go ahead.

You'll technically be a student assistant, but you're going to do, we're not going to hire another assistant.

We're going to roll with you and I'm going to put a lot of stuff on you and at the time, you know, yeah, let's go man.

But I had no idea what that meant.

But I was excited.

I knew that Coach Hebron had trusted me, felt like Coach Walsh was trusting me and the journey began, you know, and it was very eye opening at times, but I wouldn't be anything close to where I am or what I am without that year.

That year was unbelievable and growth and just learning basketball and what coaching was.

I didn't even know, you know, you roll the balls out, you pump them up, blow the whistle, you know, what else do we do?

I don't, I didn't really know, you know, I learned a lot fast.

Let me tell you what was the.

Most eye opening thing or things that you were like.

Man, I had no idea that these guys were doing this while I was playing.

I didn't think that the day to day grind of non basketball stuff and I don't even know if my, me and my wife have been married 20 years, been together 21 and she knows everything about me and what we do and da da da da.

But she probably doesn't even know like you do so much stuff sometimes and again it's not hard.

I'm not, you know, I be sticking.

My dad worked on cars his whole life, you know, body man painting them and fixing wrecked cars, that's way harder.

But like you do this, the day to day stuff academically with guys when you don't have a quote, quote academic person, you know, make sure and you know, you got a couple of red flag guys when you're at a Division 2 or probably when you're anywhere and you know, you have to make sure they're in class and they're not oversleeping.

And, you know, I know, I know.

In study all you finished this, but did you turn this in?

It's due in 30 minutes and you didn't.

Okay, do you know how to turn it in?

Okay, at this point, I feel like I'm babysitting you, but if you don't do it, then you're not playing.

So let's.

Let's look at it.

You're going to turn it in, but I'm going to be here while you turn it in.

You know, just little things like that.

And just, you know, guy gets injured in D2 and in AI and even juco, you know, how's he getting to the doctor who's taking them?

Can you take him?

What's the rules?

You know, what, what do we do with insurance?

You know, all those things that the higher levels you go, you may not worry about, but obviously in all the levels I've been, you got to worry about it.

And, you know, it's so many things and then just.

I never knew how much went into a practice plan, you know, some.

I didn't even know what a practice plan was when I played.

You know, he would post them on the door, but I never really thought about that.

He went through and thought that out and there was reason to it, all right.

It was like, you know, picking drills.

Out of a hat.

Right?

I remember, I remember we did this one two weeks ago.

Looks like he's cycling that one back in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I wonder why, you know, and the amount of film, you know, which I enjoyed.

You learned so much doing film.

And he let me do a lot of film those first two years.

And, man, you learn a lot.

You learn what other people do and sometimes you like what other people do and.

But anyway, man, there's so many things, I mean, go on and on about it and I see it as a, you know, I've been coaching now 26 years in college.

I always tell my guys I'm 30 years in college basketball, counting before I played.

So 26 years in, been a head coach.

19.

I've had a lot of assistants being a smaller level.

They're going to be with you two or three years max, probably, and move on.

And it.

I remember those days clearly because I go through it about every two or three years with them.

You know, they have no idea when they first start with me.

And I try to keep that in mind.

And I'll.

I'll say this, I don't want to get too long winded, but I would ask anybody in coaching or teaching to always remember what it's like when you don't know.

I just think, you know, I see it in college a lot when someone comes to, to register and they know nothing.

You mean I gotta have a transcript?

Like, how do I get a transcript?

It has to be official.

What does that mean?

And you know, when you're hearing that, sometimes you're like, oh my goodness, they don't know anything.

But why should they?

You know, why should they?

You know, it's their first time and sometimes you have to take a deep breath and not be frustrated because you know it and be able to teach it to them so they can know it.

You know, that's what helps everybody.

And coaching.

I think a lot of times, not, not a lot of guys, but a lot of times it does happen where, you know, we, man, you got to know that.

But why does he got to know that?

Why should he have known that?

You know, you got to teach him, man.

Right?

Yeah, yeah, no question about that.

I mean, I think as.

Right.

As a head coach, I'm sure that you as an assistant, and I can hear it coming through in the stories that you've told that how much appreciation you have for what the guys that you worked for were able to do for you, right?

What they were able to share with you, to be able to give you responsibility, to be able to teach you.

And then conversely, when you look at, well, what do I do as a head coach, right?

One of my responsibilities to prepare my assistance for their next opportunity, whether that's moving up to a different level, whether that's getting a head coaching job, whatever it is, to try to prepare those assistants to be at their best in whatever their next opportunity can be.

And I think the, the best, the best head coaches do a really good job of that.

And I don't want to say they do it with almost without.

Almost without thinking because that probably discredits it.

But I think it just comes naturally to.

To really good head coaches to, to pour into their assistance and.

And help them to continue to grow and in their career.

So along sort of that line of thinking, what, in your mind, what makes.

What are some of the characteristics of a good assistant coach, both when you think of yourself back not in your first year, but as you worked your way through it and got better at being an assistant coach, and then just the assistant coaches that you've been Fortunate enough to have work for you.

As you said that the time frame of them coming and working for you is very short.

But just what characteristics do you think are important for someone who wants to be a great assistant coach?

I do think you have to be a hard worker.

I do think you have to not be prideful.

I think you have to be humble.

The term humble so overused, you know, But I do think as an assistant, it's the perfect word.

Like you have to be, okay, sweeping the floor on Tuesday.

Maybe you have to drive.

You know, both assistant head coaches that I work for were older gentlemen, so I would drive anywhere and everywhere.

They never drove.

And that, I mean, that can't be an issue.

I don't think, you know, for some people it may would be, well, why don't they drive?

You know, I just think, you know, no job is beneath you.

And I think, you know, we ask our players to play roles and star in them.

I think, I think assistant has to be willing to star in whatever role he has.

And a lot of times as an assistant, you go unappreciate, appreciated in a lot of ways, unfortunately.

But you, you don't, you don't need to seek praise.

And I know sometimes I was bad at that, especially early and I.

And I, I hope I got better at it.

I really worked on it because I knew I was bad at it.

That's.

I guess I was the youngest child, so I needed everybody tell me when I do something good.

But, you know, I would have that problem sometimes, you know, like, man, I did this, this and this, you know, you know, by the way.

Okay, well, good.

I think you were supposed to, you know, but.

But anyway, you know, just little things like that.

And I think another characteristic, you know, another one would be learning how to.

Not without sounding corny, but learning what, what you can do to help the head coach's job easier.

Because every head coach is different.

And, you know, there's some guys that, you know, they, they need more help with this area, and there's some that need no help in that area.

And you, you know, if they don't define it for you, you know, you like that assistant to be able to recognize it and try to try to work in those areas, you know, coaches.

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Tell.

Me about the opportunity to move on to Truett McConnell as their head coach.

Are you at that point you'd obviously been working at Clayton where you had played.

So you had been there as a player and as a coach for 11 years.

Were you actively looking for head coaching jobs at that time?

Was it something that popped up that you were kind of like, oh man, maybe I'll try to go after that?

Or just where were you at in terms of just planning out your career and thinking about being a head coach when that opportunity comes to you?

It's a little backstory.

I was fortunate enough to stay at Clayton after Hebron retired and Gordon Gibbons kept me on and I'm forever grateful to him and learned so much more in that five year span than I, that I, you know, kind of thought I knew a lot after two years, you know, which is silly when you say that out loud, but I did think I did at least and I realized I didn't.

There was so much I didn't know.

And Hebron and, and Coach G are both similar in a lot of ways, but they're also both completely different in their philosophies of how to coach and how to deal with players.

And Hems gave so much more freedom and Coach Givens was just so much more, you know, not a control freak.

That would sound terrible.

He wasn't.

But he did a good job of you.

You know, you were going to do what he wanted you to do type thing as players and, and he had unbelievable relationship with players just like Hebron, but in a different way.

And I learned so much for him.

So after the third year with him, I did five with him.

After the third, you know, I started kind of looking for some jobs because I finished my Masters.

I was teaching at Clayton as well as coaching.

I did some work at a, they had a, like a Curves type workout place on campus.

I would work it and I'd kind of maxed out what I could do and what I could make and not that money should, should make what you do, but you only have so many hours in the day and I was starting to really burn both ends to be able to make enough to live on.

And so at that third year I thought, well let, let Me test the waters.

I had a couple interviews.

Some things didn't happen the fourth year, and I never really thought about.

I was kind of thinking maybe D1 or as an assistant that whole time.

And my fourth year finished, and Truett McConnell came open and I.

We had signed a very good player from there the year before.

Junior Junior College All American.

And the current head coach had told me, you probably should apply.

I'm leaving.

I'm taking this other job.

And talked to the ad.

We had great talks.

And he said, look, we're going to interview you.

I'll get back with you.

Calls me about a day or two later and says, look, the president is going to make a hire within, and they're not going to do any interviews.

And I'm sorry I lied to you, but I didn't know I lied to you.

I really didn't want to interview you.

And.

Okay, so fast forward during that whole year.

Every now and then, I would kind of just hit that.

That ad every now and then with something.

And I don't know why I did when nobody told me to.

I just kind of thought.

I don't know, I guess it was an ad.

I knew.

I don't really know any ads.

So I've just kind of hit him.

Hey, man, we won a big game last night.

How's things going at Truitt?

Whatever, you know, look forward to hearing from you.

And he might hit me with something here and there.

Well, they ended up having a situation where that.

That coach left after one year, and he called me, he said, would you still want to do that interview I promised you?

And so I went and interviewed.

They offered me the job at the interview, which I was not ready for.

That was kind of yes immediately.

Did you say yes immediately, or did.

You have to stop and think no?

I mean, I probably said yes before he finished asking.

I was so excited.

And two things on that.

It was late.

You know, it was late July when it happened, which.

Which was rough because I knew Clayton State, we were going to have our best year ever the next year.

We had kind of kept knocking on the door and they went to the Sweet 16 the next year and probably would have went to the Final Four.

They had a.

They're all American, first team, all American, got hurt in overtime, and they lost in double overtime in the sweet 16.

And that was the team I.

I left.

I didn't get to be a part of that with.

And I'd recruited almost every guy on that team or at least had something to do with everyone for sure.

But personally had recruited, you know, probably 12 of the 15.

And so that was.

That was hard to leave that team and where I'd been for, you know, 11 years, four as a player.

And then the other.

The other neat part about it, I was starting that job so late and just having to get thrown into the fire.

Coach Gibbons, who I was working for at time, gave me the best advice ever.

And I tell every coach when they get a head job, I tell them the story.

Some might roll their eyes, but I think some appreciate it.

And at the time, I thought he was a little, like, almost going senile when he told me.

I was like, what's go g talking about?

But he.

He called me that night congratulating me, and he said, look, man, I want you to listen to me for a minute, you know, and he's kind of like, when your dad says that, you know, you could tell that seriousness was there.

So it was like, yes, sir.

Right.

You know, yes, sir.

What do you need me to listen to?

And he just remember you've been at Clayton where you played, and you've been the assistant, and you're good old cb, everybody loves you.

You rarely ever have to bring the bad news.

And he goes, now you're going to be Coach Baldwin, and there's going to be people that hate you, that don't even have a reason to hate you, and you got to be okay with it.

And I remember thinking, like, what's he even talking about?

You know, people gonna hate me.

Nobody hates me.

What's he talking about?

And, boy, is that so true.

Like, I mean, I don't know if you had seen that in your experiences.

But, oh, for sure.

Unbelievable advice.

Like, that's like, this is very wise, you know, and I didn't understand it.

And every year I think back to it, like, man, here it is.

Yep.

You know, because there is a lot of situations, whether you're.

You're dealing with other.

Other coaches, you know, opponents, other players, parents, you know, administrator, you know, you just never know other people have, for whatever reason, you know, things they.

Decisions we make sometimes make other people upset.

And we're not doing it for that reason, but, you know, you have to learn to live with it.

Well, everybody loves an assistant coach.

I think that.

There's no question about that.

And then as a head coach, you have to make decisions.

And as a head coach.

Right.

You're in position to make decisions that you feel are the best for your team as an entire group.

And oftentimes that decision that's made in the best interest of the entire group doesn't always fit with the goals and aspirations of the individual or the people around that individual.

And so I think that the honest truth, probably, Corey, is that if everybody likes you and you're a head coach, you're probably not very successful because you're not really making any decisions, and you're not really doing the things that need to be done in order to get your team where it needs to go.

And so I think that's a.

That's really is a great piece of advice to be able to.

To share with young coaches is just, look, I mean, you have to.

You have to understand that you're going to make decisions that are unpopular.

And I once had a guy that I had him on, he's a coach here in the Cleveland area, and he said that he always kind of looked at the framework of his decision making was that I have to be able to make a decision.

And when I go to bed at night and put my head down on the pillow, I have to be good with my decision.

I have to know that I made the right decision for the way that I want to run my program.

No matter how many people out there might criticize that decision or not like it, I've got to be able to go to sleep at night.

And if I find myself not making those kinds of decisions, then it's probably time for me to get out of that job and.

And go look for something else to do.

And I think that's.

It's really true.

Right.

You have to.

You have to stay true to what you believe and.

And make the decisions that you feel are best for, you know, again, for your team.

Correct.

Correct.

And.

And my time at Truitt, it was the only private school that was in the Georgia Junior College Conference, and.

And they were in the process of going four year, and they couldn't decide when and what.

So I was there for three years.

I had three different presidents and three different ads, and it was a very tough situation.

We made the semis all.

All three years and had a real good team.

My second year had a kid, it was all American.

He later was newcomer of the year in the OVC at Morehead State for Donnie Tindall and had some good players and had some.

Learned a lot.

Man.

Learned so much.

You know, they had won seven total games the year before I got there, and we started seven, and.

Oh, so I was.

I pretty much decided I was Bobby Knight, and then we lost five in a row, and then I pretty much decided I Need to retire.

So, you know that I had a lot of roller coaster ride while I was at Truitt, and.

And I think it taught me a lot about trying to just, you know, the old.

The old joke, you know, some people like the roller coaster.

I'd rather be on the merry go round.

It's more steady, it's calm and so true.

In coaching, you got to try your best.

And I mean, I lived and died with every play and with every decision made.

And.

And I.

I think I learned that there for sure that that was not the exact science, the way to do it.

But also, you know, was able to work with some great coaches in that department that I learned from.

I had three.

I was having a different assistant each year.

They all moved on somewhere.

They were great and learned from them some and, you know, I had lasting memories.

Love living in North Georgia.

I'm not.

That's cold to me.

For you.

That would not be cold for me.

That would not be cold.

That would have.

Yeah, that would not be cold for us.

But yeah, I get it.

That was cold for me.

And then.

And anyway, they decided to go in.

AI.

They.

They.

The president was going to go in a little different direction on how he wanted recruitment to be, and they were going to get a little stricter in their Baptist beliefs.

And, you know, I just didn't feel like that that was what I wanted to do.

And I did a summer with the wba, which was like a kind of a wannabe pro league.

A lot of guys who played overseas would play in it and they would pay them per game and practice.

And I did that while I was in between jobs and ended up getting lucky and came down here at the time Waycross College and started a program from scratch, which was, you know, a whole nother adventure.

And came to the weather I like.

I'm in South Georgia, so that's the weather I like.

Although we did have hurricane come through here this year.

I didn't like that, but yeah, I can imagine.

That was not.

That was not a pleasant.

That was not a pleasant experience.

So tell me about starting a program from scratch.

I think I've only talked to one other guy that was at the high school level that started a program from scratch.

And he and I kind of talked about the positives, and I don't want to say the negatives, but let's just put it the challenges.

So maybe just throw a couple positives at me and throw a couple challenges at me in terms of starting a program from.

From nowhere.

Well, you're Way nicer than me.

I would probably call big time negatives.

I'm just joking.

But.

But man, a lot of things, you know, when I got the job, it's not so much what I'm prepared for, it's what the people starting the program are prepared for.

And I don't mean that by cut down to them at all.

I don't know how they would know, but there's so many things, you know, we, we.

We didn't have an ice machine, you know, and.

And when I was getting offered the job, one of my questions was not, do you have an ice machine?

It might be for my next job, because I learned that that's something you need, you know, they just didn't know.

They didn't know you gotta have an ice machine.

What.

What for?

Y'all gonna drink?

Drink cold drinks or no.

You know, you need ankles.

You got coolers.

I mean, lots of.

Go on.

You know, we didn't have a full time trainer.

We just had a trainer for games.

There was so many things they.

We just weren't prepared for.

You mean you have people that do stats in the games?

I did.

I thought it'd be like a high school game.

You just need somebody on the book.

Well, it's a little different, you know, so a lot of those things, you know, got.

Just wasn't ready for.

And in that first year, I got hired again in late July, and they wanted to do it that year, and we did.

And the first year we.

We could not qualify for the tournament.

We actually ended with a winning record, which I.

Some of that was scheduling more so than other.

But, you know, I had some good.

I had four guys coming from Truitt that definitely helped, that had played junior college already, and that group set the tone.

And our first year eligible for the tournament, we made the national tournament and won a tournament game in Hutch, which was definitely not part of the plan.

I never thought that would happen.

And I think we got an ice machine the next year.

So by year three, we had an ice machine.

So that was a big deal.

And, you know, the community really adopted us and became, you know, it wasn't as hard then, but the positives were you got to start it from scratch.

There was, you know, a lot of times you get jobs like you hate when guys get jobs or just like when guys get jobs.

And you know, it's everything.

We're going to be different than the last people or the way the last people did.

It was terrible or, or sometimes even the other way.

You feel a Little intimidated because the way the last people did it was so good.

And you're like, I can't.

Well, there was none of that.

There was none of that pressure or none of that resentment or anything.

You know what I mean?

There was no last people.

So that.

That was very refreshing to me, just not having any of that.

You know, like, whatever we do is us.

You know, we're starting the groundwork and, you know, it was five great years at Waycross College.

I'm still here, but it's no longer Waycross College.

It merged with South Georgia College and became South Georgia State.

And I'm now been here.

This is my 16th season.

I've had 10 different ADs, six different presidents, three mascots, three school names change colors two different times, and a partridge in a pear tree.

So it's been a very.

A very.

A lot of change.

So even though I've been at the same place, I always tell everybody, how do they all, you know, how do you stay at a place so long?

I'm like, it's never been the same place, so I don't feel like I've stayed at the same place, if that makes any sense.

No, it does.

Change.

Change without change.

Right?

That's what it's.

That's.

That's what.

That's what it comes down to.

All right, so let me ask you this.

After your experience at Truett McConnell and then you get to Waycross, and.

And I know the answer to this question is probably.

Your answer is probably going to be never.

But when did you feel like you had a feel for who you were as a head coach?

Did you get that feel at Truett McConnell?

Was it at some point at Waycross?

I know it's obviously, you're still always developing, always adapting, always changing.

But.

But when did you feel like, okay, I'm no longer just kind of trying to swim and keep my head above water.

I've kind of got an idea of who I am as a coach, what I want my program to look like.

How long did it take you to get to that point in the process?

I don't think anyone's ever asked me that.

And to sit here and think of that is neat to me.

I think it was fake at Truitt.

I think I was trying to be a coach, and I wasn't a head coach.

I think the one thing that no matter how good the young upcoming guy is, and there always is one, that's unbelievable.

I think experience is still unbeaten.

I don't think there's anything that you can get to replace experience other than experience.

I think you can still be very successful and great and unbelievable with no experience for sure.

But to answer what you're asking, there's no way to get that without experience.

So every year I feel more comfortable with myself and how I do things every year.

But definitely those first three or four at Truitt, I definitely never felt all the way there.

I think when I came here because it was a second place wanting me and it was kind of like I was starting it, it was mine, it just felt different and, and, and confidence level was definitely higher, which sometimes can be a bad thing too.

But I, I think in that instance, almost like a shooter, it was a good thing, you know, I, I just felt way more confident here, so.

Felt more confident who I was and what I was trying to do and what, how I was trying to do it, even if it wasn't.

That's.

Some things obviously, like you said, evolve every year and change.

You evolve or die in this business.

So you have to.

But man, definitely more comfortable, you know, so I would probably stay around probably after that going to the national tournament, you know, that year in the first year eligible, you know, definitely made you, made myself think a little more of myself and a little more confident and just like, hey man, we, we can get this going, you know, and then, you know, we go the next three years we lose in the first round of conference tournament and we, that's the only three years we've ever lost in the first round conference tournament in the whole time I've coached in this league, even at the Truitt days.

So, you know, got humble pretty quick again.

But something happened right after that and again felt more comfortable again.

We, we went on a, we've had two four year runs here where we won 97 games in four years.

Two different four years.

And it's kind of neat.

Like I'm not saying that to brag.

Listen to this stat with it.

So in the first four year run, we lost in the finals once in a semifinals three times.

The last four year runs we went to the national tournament two of the four years and you know, finished in Sweet 16 and, and won and be the number one team in the country and won.

It was just so much like kind of got over the hump in that second four and.

But I don't know if anything was different, different things going on, but evolving in different things.

But what I'm saying is a confidence level and being comfortable in my own skin was very similar.

And the two.

It's Just in the second one, you got a lot, lot better result, you know, with what, what happened.

Yep.

Oh, that makes, that makes sense.

Completely.

Obviously again, as you, as you build and as you learn and as you grow and you know, you get to the point where you feel, if you feel more confident, I think that confidence eventually gets translated to your program and to your kids and to your team and you know, you just, you just become more comfortable in your own skin and with what you need to do in order to have success.

And obviously, even though that, as we said, you've changed without changing coaching at the JUCO level.

Tell me what you like about it.

Tell me some maybe misconceptions about the juco level of basketball and maybe just what makes it so special and what you enjoy the most about it.

The neat thing about basketball is it's in a weird place now that that's totally different than what it's, than it's ever been for sure.

You know, all colleges have a lot of transfers now.

And I think the neat part about watching teams is they have to bond and grow and get together very fast.

And I think because they have to do that, you really see a lot of emotion in the games.

Maybe more.

As weird as that may sound.

Well, no coach guy been there four years.

That would be more emotional.

Probably in the long haul.

Yes.

Looking back.

Yes.

Going, you know, through memories.

Yes.

But that one year, if you're putting your whole heart and soul to learn this group and do that, it just makes it more, you know, more in that, that in that moment.

And I think that's what junior college has always been because most guys are on one year contracts because a lot of times if you're, especially when you deal with a lot of qualifiers, which is a misconception that no qualifiers go to junior college.

But when you deal with a lot of them, they possibly could leave after year one for what they're trying to get.

And you have to be open to that.

So you're always, you know, in the free agent market per se.

And because of that, if you're really trying to run a program where everybody's doing it for each other, you know, you deal with a lot of Philly touchy stuff, you know, because of that, because you can't just say, hey, you know, play for the next level and that's it.

Because if you do that, then you're going to have 50 guys trying to average 30.

That's how you get to the next level.

So you have to sell them.

Look, we go to Hutch you know, that's the goal.

That's the Disney World of junior college.

You make it there, all dreams come true, you know, for everybody.

And when you sell that, you always, you know, run the risk.

When you sell short, how's everybody going to handle it?

But it does bring everybody together.

And, you know, you, you, you're living for, for one goal, one dream and all that stuff.

And that's neat.

And I think all of basketball is kind of moving towards that now in a weird way.

You know, I try to look at things that glass half full.

So I know some people might be rolling their eyes right now that I'm only saying the positive part, but I do think that's a positive of basketball right now.

And I think it's neat that guys with a team one year and have, you know, ownership within that year, you know, it's pretty neat.

And obviously if I was coaching that team and the guy left, I might not enjoy that much either.

But again, I think that's a, a cool part of it.

And, and you're able to do it again the next year with a whole whole new crew?

More than likely.

We've always tried to have returners.

I think your best recruiting is your returners.

But, you know, there's some years like this year, if you would have told me we were going to be good.

We're 19 and 2, 23rd in the country right now, but we only had two returners.

I kind of thought this year would be a year we might take a dip, but we had happen.

What I'm talking about.

These guys, I feel like they've been with me for 20 years.

The way they act together and the way they play for each other.

And that's a neat thing.

The misconceptions are mainly academically and some behavioral.

You know, a lot of people, man, it irks me.

I listen to a lot of podcasts, and yours I listened to, and yours is not one that would say this, but some of these coaching podcasts, they'll say things like, well, that coach just takes a bunch of transfers or a bunch of juco guys.

So, you know, you already know what his program's about.

And I want to be like, well, what is it about?

What does that mean?

And then people say, well, we only take high school guys.

Well, I thought transfers, didn't they go to high school before they were transfers?

I mean, we're all high school guys.

I.

Those things irked me because that, to me, that's, that's very biased comments.

Very.

To me, just wrong.

You're putting a blanket over the whole group, you know.

And are there bad apples in junior college?

Yes.

And they're bad apples in Division 1, Division 2, Division 3 and NAI as well.

Like, come on, come on, man.

Like, you can't say that stuff.

You know, if you, you know, I did.

I.

That, that.

That probably gets me going the most.

But I think they're, you know, great kids in junior college programs and a lot of times they're more eager and more appreciative of the things they get at the higher level because they didn't get it in junior college.

You know, you do have some lesser travel issues and things like that.

Now there are some junior colleges have it better than division ones.

I haven't been in those yet, unfortunately, as a coach, but.

But, you know, so my guys, you know, they'll call me all the time and they go to different places and brag about, you know, gear or travel or, you know, how they go to games or what they eat.

You know, when my guys go D1, it's amazing.

Some of the stuff they eat on, you know, practices and stuff and you're like, that wasn't a pregame, you know, what, you know.

But anyway, so.

So, you know, those things, you know, some people don't think of that.

And I think juco with some of these rules possibly changing.

I know everything's not done in stone yet, but sounds like you're going to probably get one year, you know, for Division 1 and maybe end up getting both.

If that happens, you know, that would be unbelievable for junior college, not just for the coaches and winning and getting better players, but it would just be great for the kids that do some of the work I'm talking about, you know, and you know, for.

For quote, quote, less, you know, less appreciation and then they.

They'll really appreciate it when they get it, you know.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I think that with the potential of those rule changes and being able to get that extra eligibility, if that's the direction that it ends up going, obviously it, it makes the juco route a lot more attractive to more players in terms of the opportunities that it could end up opening up for players and you touched on a little bit.

But I want to ask you maybe a follow up question on the point of trying to mold together a cohesive team out of a group of guys who obviously have in most cases aspirations to go on and play at a higher level when they're done playing in your program and in order, at least in the player's Mind, I'm sure they feel like in order to be able to do that, I have to do X, Y and Z as an individual in order to reach that goal of getting to the next level.

And yet your job as the coach, obviously is to develop them as individuals, but more importantly is to put together a cohesive team that can win, that plays for each other.

And any coach knows that you can't have seven dudes who all think they're the star and want the ball in their hands for 40 minutes a night.

So what are the conversations like that you have with players to help them to understand that by playing a role on this team and by, again, as you said, reaching team goals, how that helps them as individuals.

I'm just curious what those conversations are like.

Both, maybe in the recruiting process, but also once you have them on campus and you're talking to them, what do those conversations sound like?

Well, some of those, you know, I'm a firm believer in.

I really try to talk to guys about, you know, winning, you know, that that should.

If that's really what you want, is winning really what you want?

And I try to get them to tell me that without me telling them that.

And then once it is, then we.

We talk about what people do to win and.

And everybody has to sacrifice to win.

And everybody's sacrifice is different.

And we, we constantly talk here about everyone's journey is different in this room, but we're all going hopefully to the same path.

That's our plan.

Like the end of the same place.

We're just going to take different routes to get there.

And for some of us, it may, you know, you may not play.

You may redshirt, or you may not play a lot as a freshman, or you may start but be in a minimal role, or you may be a very significant role as a freshman, but all of you are hopefully going to keep working forward to be better and reach the highest level you can reach.

And, you know, everybody's ceiling, we hope, is real high, but where we started to reach whatever that ceiling is, might be different than the other guy.

We talk about those things a lot.

And again, it.

Sometimes it can be noise, but I think our guys eventually really get into it and they start seeing things, you know, you know, Carolina forever.

Now, of course, some of this is changing with all this transferring, but, you know, the big blues, Carolina, Kentucky, ucla, Duke, you know, Kansas going through all those, you know, they're always going to be in the lottery picks, but yet their numbers are not going to be as good as the guy that was lean scorer at Rutgers or wherever, you know, why is that?

We talk a lot about that.

You know, why is the MVP always on a winning team?

Why wasn't it the guy that was the lean scorer in the league, you know, and those are just things we try to talk about.

Because I think even though that might be.

Well, come on, coach, that's common sense.

I don't think it is.

I don't think a lot of guys realize that.

And you're right.

Say it out loud and like, okay, yeah, you are right.

I never really thought of that.

You know, Carolina's third guys in the lottery, you know, the one year.

And again I'm dating myself, I got to get a little more updated sometimes.

But one year, Marvin Williams, you know, went third in the draft of the Hawks.

You know, people, six man, six man.

He was the sixth man, right?

You know, the one year, Corey McGetty from Duke was, I think, 11th or 12th pick.

He was a lottery pick.

He was the sixth man, know, and was able to leave as a freshman.

Think about that.

Both of those guys, and they didn't start, you know, Kentucky, of course, would be the more recent one where they were their whole starting five and first two guys off the bench are in the draft.

You know, how in the world does that happen, you know, when the leading scorer at, you know, Wake Forest didn't end the draft, why ain't he in the draft or whatever, you know, just a random school, you know, throwing out.

But those are some of the things you talk to them about.

Now, there is some other, other things behind that.

Yeah, they're five stars.

I did it.

I got you.

But they were sacrificing themselves.

They didn't go and average the most points they could average.

They went to a place to try to win and be seen.

And that's.

And that's what we try to sell.

And it's hard because again, we're not Northwest Florida, we're not Chipotle, you know, we're.

We're not Salt Lake.

Even though we beat them out there in the tournament one time.

We might, somebody might say we are, but we're not.

You know, we're not.

We don't have same scenarios.

We don't have the same tradition, but we have our own tradition.

And that helps a lot, too.

We sell that.

You know, I'm able to show them guys that didn't start as freshmen and then were all Americans as sophomores and Division 1 players and play overseas for a little while or a guy that Red shirt and didn't play a lot as a freshman, started as a sophomore, you know, plays in a son, you know, Division 1 league and ends up, you know, playing overseas for a while.

Those are guys when you can show them the stories and it's right in their own backyard.

He said the same study hall classroom you're sitting in, he's watched film with the same coach you're watching film with.

Those things resonate real well too, you know, because it's.

You can show from example, you're not just making up some, you know, Michael Jordan did this.

Well, yeah, that's great.

That's Michael Jordan.

You know, you're saying, though, you know, Cody Haglin that played here in 2000, you know, 15, did this.

Okay, well, now I can relate a little bit.

No, that makes total sense.

I think that there's a ton of value in that, that once you've been able to have that track record of success and you've had guys that have moved on and had success that you can point to and be like, yeah, that dude was sitting right there in the same classroom, he was practicing on the same practice floor, and he was working on the same skill level, skill things that, that you're working on.

And yeah, look what he was able to achieve.

I mean, I think that is, I'm sure, invaluable both as a recruiting tool and then once you're, once you got guys in the fold to be able to talk to them about that and say, look, this is, this is why you want to buy in.

Because the success that these guys have had in the past, you're going to be able to follow that up with your own success.

And again, I would add this real, real quick.

I would add this, and I don't want to go too long winded, but the returners, going back to when I said your returners are more important than who you recruit.

The returners are the one that, that when you're there back in the dorm, you know, playing cards or dominoes or video games, emphasizing, hey, coach, ain't.

Ain't selling you a bunch of, you know, bull, man.

This is real, you know, he's going to help your.

If you can do it, it'll work in your advantage.

And that's when you get them.

I think, more than the stories I can tell them, I think it's the guys telling them, if you know what I mean.

No, absolutely.

I mean, I think your returners, right, they.

They set the culture and they're able to, to pass along things that you might want to pass along, but probably have a bigger impact coming from guys who have been through it and guys that know what the landscape looks like.

I think that again is invaluable.

If you're talking about building the program, your, your current players and your former players are, are your best salesmen.

If you're, if you're doing it right, those guys are your best salesman.

Without question.

Before we, before we wrap up, Corey, I want to ask you a two part question to finish it.

When you look ahead over the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge?

And then second part of the question.

When you think about what you get to do every single day, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

I think big, biggest challenge.

I think anytime you've been at a place a long time, like, like I have and we've had some success, you know, you, you, you, you worry about that term.

I said earlier, your ceiling.

You, you hope we hadn't hit it.

You know, I'm, I'm still thriving to get us better than, than, than, than we were yesterday type thing and you know, keep pushing forward and, and you know, I think that's the biggest challenge because obviously with resources, money, things like that, sometimes you are hitting the ceiling.

So you got to come up with more avenues and think out of the box a little bit more.

That would be number one.

And then I think with the, the joy, I think probably I love competing.

You know, I do, I love competing.

I love being challenged and I love the, you know, day to day interaction with players, assistant coaches, other coaches, guys like you.

Just the joy of people who love the sport and love being around people like I do.

And, and we all got in this because we love basketball, we love helping kids and sometimes we, we forget that, but that's the, that's what's great and that's my joy.

I really do enjoy that.

I love seeing guys reach goals that they didn't know they even had.

That's well said.

I mean, I think the love of the game, and I've said it so many times on the podcast, but it's probably worth repeating again that when I look at my life and all the good things that have come in my life, almost all of them are somehow directly or indirectly related to basketball.

That's people, jobs, experiences.

You know, again, I can, I can never, I can never even come close to getting back to the game what, what the game has, has given me.

And I think as you said, the, the love of basketball is what gets us all into this.

And then you just hope that we can make whatever impact we can using a game that we love.

And so I think that was really well said.

Before we wrap up, Corey, I want to give you a chance to share how can people connect with you?

Find out more about your program.

So whether you want to share email, social media, website, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

All right.

As Coach Baldwin WC is my Twitter Coach Baldwin is my Instagram and it's Corey C O R y dot Baldwin B A L D W I N at SG SC edu you can email me anytime, you know, and, and really just, you know, like you just trying to just to spread the the game and the love for the game.

But also, you know, always, always looking to learn from other people and talk to other people.

So, you know, enjoy.

Any anybody wants to reach out, please do Hours.

Corey, cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight.

Really appreciate it.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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