I had to work harder than everybody else in the room. Right, exactly. Right. There was no, no letting down. Don't give her down downtime. Keep her working, keep her working. And, and I've learned over the years that that's true for black women in general. We are expected to work harder, we're expected to be smarter. We're expected to do it silently. You know, we face microaggressions. takes a toll.

We'll discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk about this topic because we were afraid.

A Black Executive Perspective.

Welcome to a Black Executive Perspective podcast. A safe space where we discuss all matters related to race, especially race in corporate America. I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.

And I'm your co host, Chris P. Reed.

So as usual, I want to give a quick shout out to our partners at University of New Haven, 88. 7 on the Richter dial. We appreciate them allowing us to be able to utilize their studio to podcast a Black executive perspective. Go Chargers.

And also, we can't forget to give a shout out to our partners CODE M Magazine, whose mission is saving the Black family by first saving the Black man. Check them out at CODE MMagazine. com. That's two Ms. CODE MMagazine. com. Thank you.

Thanks, Chris. So, in today's episode, we'll delve into the challenges faced by Black women executives. who often encounter misconceptions around their intelligence, demeanor, and their appearance viewed as intimidating in professional settings. Beyond battling microaggressions, stereotypes, and the glass ceiling, these women also show the dual burdens of leading their households and excelling in high demand careers. They do this while facing significant health risks, Like heart disease and breast cancer. Today we are joined by Geraldine Moriba, senior vice president of news, entertainment, and empowerment at theGrio. She will discuss how these resilient leaders navigate these challenges and the critical ways to support their journey towards success.

Let me give Moriba. Geraldine Moriba is the senior vice president of news, entertainment, and empowerment at theGrio, like Tony said. Overseeing Byron Allen's black targeted multimedia band brand, excuse me. She has significantly expanded theGrio, developing it into a multifaceted platform, encompassing a news site, a streaming app, live events, a podcast network, and the cable network. Previously, Mariva was a research scientist at Stanford university's Brown Institute and a John S. Knight journalism fellow following on editorial patterns, identification through. Machine learning. She hosts and produces sounds like hate a podcast funded by the Southern poverty law center, exploring the radicalization of American extremists. Moriba's career includes founding Moriba media and serving as executive producer. On a PBS documentary sinking cities and the multi platform initiative chasing the dream. She has held various production and executive roles at CNN and NBC news. Significantly impacting program development and diversity initiatives. Her illustration, her illustrious career has earned her multiple industry awards, including five Emmy awards, two Peabody awards, and a prestigious Princeton University Ferris professorship of journalism fellowship, among others. Geraldine Moriba, welcome to A Black Executive Perspective.

Thank you.

So, currently, with all those things in your past, what's going on in your present? Where are you, kind of, how are you feeling nowadays?

So, you know, every time somebody asks me, what's my favorite project, or what's the best story you ever worked on, I always tell them it's the one I'm doing right now. Because, truthfully, I'm always 100 percent all in. And, and I just had the blessing, the good fortune of being Connected to theGrio when it launched. So this is like coming home all these years later, um, to be leading theGrio now. So my, um, this moment that I am in is all about theGrio.

That is awesome. That is great. I mean, as Chris was going through your bio, I mean, the only thing that was missing and I was waiting for him to say is they gave her land and title. Okay. I mean, very accomplished. And I love how you said that you're, you're in the moment right now.

Yeah, I think the one thing I've never achieved that I've always wanted to is a Pulitzer, like to do a singular project that's worthy of a Pulitzer. So I'm still aiming for that. Yeah.

I mean, don't shame the rest of us too poorly and to become an astronaut, I guess, just add that go into space and build something and win a Pulitzer and a Heisman trophy. No, you'd be good. Right. It'd be good, but that's great that you, uh, you know, have so many things. Like I said, that's obviously we gave a rundown of things that you. Performed or done previously, but it's great that your eye is on the prize and you're staying in the moment and looking towards the future because we obviously connectively need that as a people. So we appreciate that stick to it of this and that, that, uh, drive that you have for yourself. Um, so your family is, so you're currently located, uh, on the West coast or East coast, or.

I'm on the East Coast. I also want to say thank you to the University of New Haven for allowing me to participate, but especially to you, Tony, and to you, Chris, for having me on your podcast, but I, I'm on the East Coast. I live in Harlem, Harlem, USA. Wow. Beautiful New York City. City, Harlem, and I'm originally from Toronto and, um, and my parents are Jamaican. So I am the child of an immigrant and I'm an immigrant myself.

That is awesome. That is awesome. And you know, was, was interesting. So I'm in, you know, our, our university, New Haven, we're in, uh, in Connecticut. Um, Chris is in Dallas. So next time, hopefully, you know, we would love to some point, maybe be able to get you out in the studio. Since you're in close proximity to where we are, but more importantly, you know, let's talk about today. So we have a very important topic that we want to discuss with you. So the question that we have is why did you want to come on a black executive perspective podcast to discuss this topic?

Cause I feel like when we talk about C suite and executives, we sometimes have superficial conversations that don't encompass the whole person. And, and what I wanted to do today, if you guys permit me, is just talk about us as whole people, like absolutely. It's about the bottom line. It's about revenue. It's about profit. We live in America, but we can't lose sight of what generates that and that's human beings. So I wanted to have a conversation about the value of. labor And, um, and, and just see if we can ground it in our work, but also not lose sight of who we are.

Totally agree. We definitely will permit you. We're excited to have this conversation with you. So let's jump into it. So Geraldine, are you ready to talk about it?

I'm ready.

All right. Let's talk about it.

Let's, let's, besides all the accolades and accomplishments, let's go into the story of who you are. Like you said, that personalization is very important. How did you come from Toronto and decide that your mark was going to be made in the media industry as a journalist? How did that even come about?

Yeah, well, I have to say that, um, we're in this moment where we're watching, um, college students protesting on campus. And when I was an undergrad, the same thing was happening and we were protesting against apartheid and at my particular university in Canada, I was helping organize students. In those marches and those sit-ins, as well as, um, organizing, um, against racism on campus. And that led to, um, like new opportunities. I I, I ended up coming across a, a job posting after I graduated for a newsroom at Radio Canada. And, um, to satisfy my mom who's Jamaican. Every time I'd come home, um, cause I was still organizing. I graduated and I continued organizing and I moved home back to Toronto and was organizing against a particularly heinous and racist exhibit at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto. And, and every day we were out there. And the end of one day my mother just basically said, you have a degree, you, you need a job. What are you doing? And I whipped out those, um, Job bulletin that I'd found or that had been faxed to, um, an office I was in and showed her and said, I'm going to apply for this. I had no intention of applying for it. Um, it was a newsroom job. I didn't think of myself as a journalist. I actually had aspirations to join the foreign service. Um, I was thinking about law. I was thinking about completely different things. And but I had a Jamaican mom have a Jamaican mom, and she was like, you need a job now, right? And you've got tuition to pay. And so I told her I'd apply for this. And lo and behold, I got the job. And when I say I tried my best in those interviews. to not impress. Um, I sincerely tried not to impress. But what happened was I found the interviews so insulting. Um, the person who people who interviewed me asked what I thought were really simple questions. You know, who, um, was the president of a certain country who about Canadian Uh, public policy about, um, recent current events, and I was on top of my game. I could answer everything, and then I flipped it and said, I listened to your shows, your programs, and here are all the things you're doing wrong. You should be doing this, and you haven't done this, and so on, and it ended up landing me a job. Um, so that was my first job as a trainee at Radio Canada and then the Gulf War broke and I realized, oh, this is actually a really critically important occupation and I just happened to have all the skill sets. So I, I pivoted and said, let me just try this out and see where it leads. And I, I became a journalist, wasn't at all something I'd planned to do.

Let me ask you a question. So the job obviously didn't say in the flyer that it needed a, a activist or a headstrong, you know, a smart mouth young lady. When did you embrace that activism? And what was the point in your career? Or was it immediate? Where you said, you know what? I can combine who I really am to this vocation and make the most of it. What was that? What was that like?

Yeah. I mean, I, I grew up in a household where, um, and I think every person, every immigrant listening will relate to this, or if I remember being in middle school and bringing home a report card and I got 97 percent in like middle school science, I think it was biology and showing my mom. And she looked at it, and she put it down, my report card, and, and I said, Mom, I got 97%. And she said, Well, if you got 97, you could have gotten 100. Then she said, And you got 80s in French? Don't, don't, don't talk to me about this report card. She was upset, right? And so I worked, I lived and grew up in this home where the bar was high. And, um, And, and, you know, it I have I come from a really athletic family. I'm not and we were very competitive. Um, I am, um, and I think just the combination of this sort of competitive internal culture in my family and going to a university that had all of these inherent problems and then starting my career, um, recognizing that this was an opportunity to change. Change in society make good and I'll tell you one of the things that happened almost after immediately after starting was the Rodney King beating and I was the only black person in the newsroom. And, um, can I tell you the story? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, again, it's from the Canadian perspective. That's where I was working, Radio Canada. And basically what happened was this was in the days, When the wires would come through a machine and you just hear the wires would come and you grab it and they get sent around the newsroom. And I remember seeing the story about this video of a police beating and I went running to the executive producer and said, I want to do the story. I'm I want to do the story. And she looked at and she said, oh, that's. Not Canadian, that's American, and it's not a story, like that happens all the time in the States. And I said to her, actually, it happens all the time in Canada, and I think it's a story. And she said, no, I don't think it's a story, by tomorrow nobody will be talking about it. Of course, it became the headline that night, and we missed it. So the next day I was in the newsroom, and I walked in with a stack of papers and stories, like multiple stories, right? And she started off the editorial meeting by turning to the host. Um, Michael Enright was the host at the time and asking Michael. What he wanted to lead the show with and Michael said he wanted to lead the show with an interview with the police officers parish priest because he he had observed he'd read that several of them went to the same church and had they were Catholic and they had the same parish priest so he thought it would be interesting to find out what that priest perspective was on the beating. Um, And, and that was, and she wrote it on the story list and she said it was my turn. And I said, Great. I want to talk to Rodney King's kindergarten teacher. And, and everybody sort of stopped and said, why? I said, cause I think Rodney King's kindergarten teacher is as relevant as the Paris priest. So if we're doing parish peace priest, if we're doing one, we should do the other. So she stopped, she scratched it off the list. And she said, well, What would you like to talk about? And I said, I have some stories and I just went through them one by one by one and handed they she handed them all out the assignments. And I just, you know, to for context, I think I was about 23 or 24 years old. I walked out of that room, went into the bathroom, close the door. And collapsed because it took every ounce of courage. I had to speak up in this room full of experienced journalists, but that moment was so instrumental for me personally, and it helped me understand why newsrooms have to be integrated and why we have to be in the room when these decisions are made. Um, and for me, it was a life lesson.

Number one. Thanks for sharing that. Um, um, number two, obviously being in a position where you're the only person of color. Okay. And here's a situation where, um, your editor was like, this is not a real story. And, you know, you push back, you came back and, and it's great for you because a lot of people, we don't do that when we face these type of microaggressions that come up, especially when we're the only one. Okay. Um, tell us about, because you've, you've risen up the ranks, okay? So talk to us a little bit about some of the professional racism, or I should say racism that you dealt with in the professional ranks.

Sure. So I think there were a couple of things, a couple of answers. One was, um, you know, a lot of women postpone having children. Um, in their careers, uh, because there's just so many things that they're juggling and they're not sure they can do it. And again, I grew up in a household where. We were expected to do it all. So I didn't get that memo, didn't understand I was supposed to wait and started having kids in my, my twenties. And what I remember is, um, going on, on maternity leave and being on the fast track. I was getting choice assignments. Uh, I was getting promoted one, you know, after another, I was working at NBC news and, um, Having my son making arrangements for child care, um, coming back to work. I even came back to work early. I didn't take the full maternity leave because I didn't want to lose this pace. I was working at and I figured out how to balance both and got back to work. And I started getting these really soft assignments. Like family focus pieces, parenting pieces. Now I think those stories are totally legitimate, but it wasn't what I did. And so I went into my manager's office and said to him, when I left, I was on the mommy, I mean, I was on the fast track. Correct. And I came back and you put me on the mommy track. And if that's where I'm going to be, it's not worth my time. And, um, we had this heart to heart and he said, we are trying to be considerate to new mothers and, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I, you know, my response was, if I needed that kind of consideration, I would. I would ask

right

and you have to give me the courtesy of letting you know when I need it, but don't slow down my career by making assumptions. And, um, I think so. That's why I've seen. My answer is 2 fold. 1 is I was confident enough to speak up. When I realized something had happened, but then you have to be prepared to deliver. So, you know, the next day I was put on a plane flying to God knows where and, and I was like on the flight thinking, Oh my God, my son is at home. What am I doing? And, and. And I had to figure it out. Like I had to figure it out really fast and, and I did. And, um, I have two kids and I think they're stronger for it. Uh, quite honestly, they are, um, creative and confident and smart and accomplished. And, and I think it's because. They had a mom who wasn't at home turning all this energy into, you know, treating them like special projects. They had to also learn, um, how to get things done sometimes on their own. You know, they grew up in Harlem. They're born and raised Harlemites. So there's some grit that just comes along with it anyways. And then the second part of my answer is, Um, I learned early on that I, I always had to have a five year plan. I always needed to know where I wanted to be down the road and not where I'm standing. Because when you're driving, you're not looking at the street right in front of you, you're looking down the road. So to that end, there, I was working at Dateline NBC when it was a news magazine show, and it started to evolve into a crime show. And I did a couple of those hours and realized, That wasn't for me. I, I never ever for the rest of my life want to see a, a crime scene when it just happened. I never want to smell it. I never want to see it. I never want to go into a police officer's, um, the room where they keep all the evidence. I don't want to see those photos. They are traumatizing. And, and I knew that about myself. And, um, and basically. Started looking around and just determining where I, what I could do next and what skills I needed and in doing so, I, I made sure I was prepared and then I asked for what I wanted and made it really difficult to get a no. I was also prepared to walk away. If the answer was no,

let me, let me kind of couple that to say, it appears that whether it be from your mom, not accepting anything less than your best or whatever the case may be, you've never been bashful. Have you ever, do you feel like that's 1 of the linchpins of your success of climbing the ladder is. Not taking less than what you deserve and then being vocal and confident, as you stated, because it seems like one of the themes that you have aligned with your career is that you were never bashful and you were always knowledgeable of what you had to offer and what you were willing to accept. How important is that for women? Because a lot of women tend to, it appears that a lot of women tend to just kind of don't want to upset the apple cart, go with the flow. Don't want to be, you know, cast as this or that. And they don't let their light shine like you did. Why were you so determined to always let your light shine?

So I think we have to be, as black people, we have to be advocates and we have to self advocate. Um, I am not like this in other situations when I have. Conversations with my my two kids who are now young adults. I step back. I recognize that they they need their own agency and space and and need to self determine their future. So the way I treat my career isn't the way I treat my family. I make a distinction between. Where I am and what is required of me, I will absolutely be on a business call and speak up as needed. Um, but at home, or with friends, I'm happy to take a back seat and and let somebody else drive. And, and enjoy it from a different perspective.

You know, so number one, thank you for that. Um, and you know, Chris, you know, I was just contemplating on Chris's question and, and I love your answer. The challenge though for most of us, cause you make a good point, we have to be self promoting. We have to build our own brand. We have to promote our brand. As, as people of color, right? However, a lot of times we don't come out the gate doing that because of our own, you know, it could be self image. It could be, we're the only person of color in the room. So we don't want to rock the boat. We, um, you know, if we say something wrong, we might lose this job. It may not even get another shot. So I'm prefacing that to talk about, I want you to dive into it because, you know, you just said a few things about number one, you had a baby. You were fast tracked on your career, and then all of a sudden you come back from maternity leave and they're giving you soft assignments, okay? Now, you may, you turned a lemon into lemonade by being straightforward and honest, but a lot of, that happens to a lot of women, okay? Because at the end of the day, they're looking for them, yeah, you had a baby, but you still gotta be here. Yeah, you know, there's none of that. You know, um, there's an expectation. So let's, let's move to the state of the state, uh, or the state of corporate America for black women. So let's talk a little bit about the things that they dealt with that you probably dealt with, even though you overcame it. And, and I'm not, I don't want to make assumptions. You overcame everything, but it'd be great to put, uh, put some thought out there in terms of what black women are going through in corporate America.

So I have some stats I want to share with you. Yes, please. Before, before I get to the stats, I want to say one thing. I am not an advocate for raising your hand and saying you need a promotion or raising your hand and saying you need a higher salary or asking for more if you haven't earned it. If you're not ready. You, you absolutely need to prepare and be ready because raising your hand just because you, you're, you have a sense that you should be getting more or doing more. It is not how it works. Totally agree. So, um, and, and, and again, like, you know, we, we are over achievers, um, in, in many ways, I don't know that I would be this confident in a field where you're, I don't feel like I had the skills, but I have the skills in my occupation in abundance because I've, I've studied and studied and studied. I still go into meetings and spend hours, hours preparing for every conversation. I take nothing for granted. Um, cause the second you do, you become vulnerable and, um, and things happen. So, I think part of the solution is, is being, um, prepared. As much as possible and also knowing what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are. Um,

but no, thank you for that. Go ahead.

Yeah, so I, I did bring some statistics. I wanted to share with you. And these are all things that we've reported on here at theGrio. And you can find articles on that. On theGrio dot com about any of the things I'm about to say, um, because there is a very serious racial and gender gap, um, when it comes to women executives and women in the workforce. So, for every 100 men that we see leap forward, only 87 women advance, but we can break that down further. If you're a woman of color, it's 73%. So out of 100 men, if you're a black woman, that number drops to 54. So that means for every man. Any race that jumps forward. Only 54 black women are able to do it as well.

So Geraldine, just so we're clear, the audience is clear. When you say leap forward, are you saying a promotion at any level?

Yes. Got it. At any level. Right. Um, black women are generally paid 66 cents for every dollar paid to white, non Hispanic men. Um, that's a gap of about 20, 000 a year. That's a lot of money. Like, think about what you can do with 20, 000. Um, black women are most likely to be the primary bed breadwinner in their homes. Um, and here's a really interesting one. Whether women earn post secondary certificates or graduate from top tier universities, they still make 71 cents on the dollar compared to men at the same education level. Um, and these are census numbers, like you can look this up, we've been writing about this and reporting on it, but this is, this is information, these are facts, and they're out there, um, Before you go to,

before you go to the next one, I just want to dive in right here for a second, because everything you just said, you know, is appalling. I just want to dive here for a second. So what you're saying is, a woman who earns a post secondary certificate or graduate degree from a top tier is making 71 cents on the dollar versus a male counterpart, a black woman. Is that correct?

That's right.

Okay, so let me ask you this. Why is that? How does that, because I just wanted that right there from an economic standpoint, especially when you, you check all the boxes and you only, you went to a higher level in terms of your education. How does that happen where they're getting only 71 percent of the dollar versus their male counterpart?

So there is a lot of research around that. There's research that shows that. When a man, primarily white men, but men in general, apply for a job or promotion, they'll read the job description and there'll be 10, I'm making this up, 10 items on that list.

To check.

To check requirements. And they might have 2 or 3 and they're like, Yes! I got this! And they apply, right? Women will look at that same list and say, Oh, I have 9. That's cool. But I'm missing one and won't apply.

Got it. So

we wait until we have everything checked. We wait, we just don't have the same kind of, we're not encouraged to have the same kind of bravado and confidence because when we express that, it's seen in negative ways.

So this also happens from a salary standpoint as well. I would imagine right when somebody makes an offer for the job If they feel like even happy just to be there because they didn't check every box They're gonna be okay accepting what what's being offered. Is that correct?

That's correct.

Yeah,

that's absolutely correct

Okay. All right, so that's insane And you know, that's a big disparity Especially when you talk about not only from a talent standpoint, but from a wealth standpoint, if somebody's losing 30 cents on the dollar throughout their career, okay? If you took that money and you could put it in a CD or stock or some, that's significant. That is a significant amount of money.

Well, let me, let me just add to that. Think about all the pipeline programs we have in multiple industries. Throughout the country, you know, whatever the industry, whether it's media or finance or health care, whatever it is, there are pipeline, um, programs that help people of color help women help people who have disadvantages get in.

Right?

Right. They're critical pipeline programs, but what happens when you enter through a pipeline program? Here's what happens. You get in, you do, it might be six months, it could be a year, and you work at a lower, much lower salary than someone who starts at an entry level position. Right, and now you're starting you and they offer you a job if you're successful, but when you go from that pipeline job to the entry level position, you may or may not get what that other person received who's likely white who started at that entry level position. So now. You're below when you went into the pipeline, you got a little bit more to get that first entry level job. But that person, your peer who started at the entry level has already advanced to the next level. So no matter how much you get an increase over the years, if you stay within a company, chances are it takes so much longer. To advance what's out, you're already behind, like, you're always behind. So pipeline programs are great to get you in the door, but they're not designed to get you into C suite. They're not designed around the concept of equity and, and, and they come with disadvantages, including, um, stereotypes and assumptions made about your skills.

Can you just add on to that in terms of what are some of the stereotypes and what's some of the assumptions from a skill standpoint?

Yeah, I mean, we know what happened to affirmative action, right? And there is inherently, um, biases around people who, um, whether or not you enter a job through a program like that, there are always biases around whether or not you got it based on merit. Or you got it based on somebody giving you a chance, giving you a break, right? And, and, and that's problematic. We need these programs to open doors, but we also need programs that are designed to. Really, um, dismiss these stereotypes because the reality is if you got in the door, you had to have a qualifications, right? They're not just throwing them randomly out to anybody. But once you get in the door, there should be some kind of equalizing that happens so that. They're considered entry level positions and not one rung below. Um, so yeah, that's my feeling on pipeline programs.

So, so let me, let me kind of just put that in a nutshell. Um, I've had people that were at vice president levels that were, uh, uh, mentors of mine, black guys, uh, who've said that they've had people that ended up reporting to them that had higher salaries than them. Um, Because they started off higher and as you get raises three, five, three to five to 6 percent or whatever, it's a compound factor,

right? So

if you start off low, it's, it's like a gray point average. You hardly never catch up once you start losing, you know, once she's not getting all A's, it's hard to get it back up there. That's my highest level. That's my point. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Let me ask you this though, because we talked about confidence as your currency. Um, has there been a situation where you came in with receipts and you knew that these were the receipts and these were your demands and it didn't go well? And how did you adjust or pivot? When that did occur, if that did occur with you.

Um, I have found that, um, I, I just haven't let myself get into that situation to be honest. Like I, I, I am telling you the truth. I am always planning ahead. Um, it, it does get harder as you advance in your career because there's simply fewer and fewer positions to advance to. Right. That's just a reality. But what I've found is, um, I have learned how to negotiate.

Okay.

Um, if somebody says yes too quickly, I'm always like, shh, I didn't ask for enough.

Meat on the bone. Just meat on the bone. Right. I should have asked for more. Absolutely,

right. Um, so I've learned, um, how to sharpen my negotiation skills over the years. And I'm, I always go into these situations prepared to walk away. Okay.

You know, so speaking of that, and again, a lot of People, you know, we need to have you come back just to do a training on negotiation. Okay, because that's where a lot of male and female people fail. But in terms of the C suite in corporate America, you know, one of the things, you know, going back to the wages, right? Somebody, you know, there's more women now than there were before. That's at the C suite level. Okay, but the wages haven't caught up and just like you just got finished saying earlier. How could they catch up if you move them from an entry level and you move into the next level and there's, there's disparages, disparages. So talk a little bit about that in terms of that, that, that gap.

Yeah. I mean, again, this is where these numbers come in because I like to keep it real. I don't, I don't want to speak just from my gut or my emotion. I want to give you information you can use. So the stat I was going to go to, um, is exactly on that point. Um, despite the fact that there have been so many women who've entered the workforce, and that so many women have entered C suite and just for the record, the biggest. Beneficiary of affirmative action?

White women. It's white women! White women, yeah, yeah.

Right. Um, so just putting that out there, but despite women making all kinds of women making these huge gains, um, in entering C suite positions, the salaries, the gap salary gap hasn't changed in 20 years in two decades. So we're getting into these positions, but again, because we were already underpaid when we get up to the next position, we don't get what we. We deserve and so whenever I'm asked and I've been at this company three years So I haven't been asked in the last three years, but prior to this when I was asked What I wanted as a salary and by the way, I did run my own business for a little while But before that when I was asked what salary? I wanted I would say every single time to the hiring manager Think about the highest paid white man in this position and then add on 10%. I never asked, I never asked for, I never gave them a number, right? I want to know what's the highest paid white male in this position and then add 10%.

What did they, what was their answer to that?

Um, usually it was a gasp.

I would imagine so.

And really, it's not necessarily true that I'm, I know what that salary is. Um, but I want them to know what I'm expecting, what

your value is, what I

know my value, right? So you have to know what you're worth. And the reality is, if you can't meet what I'm expecting, then you're wasting my time.

I love it. I love it. I mean, those are things that. Everyone should, should, hopefully they're listening to this podcast, taking notes, okay? Because we, everybody's got a value and a lot of times we undersell ourselves.

Chris? No, you're valued, but again. If you're going to go to the table and negotiate that way, you've got to bring everything.

Got to have receipt. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Let me ask you this. And interestingly enough, you seem to wear this well based off of so many factors, your upbringing and your fortitude and things of that nature. How heavy is the crown? How tough is it for you or for your family? Based on women that you've spoken with, because it's not just about being smart and being capable of having merit is so many other things that fall onto the diaspora that is women. that they have to encompass in the workforce. So how do you, how you create that balance? How do you stay vigilant to these things and, and have that type of understanding that, Hey, I gotta go, I gotta get on this plane. I got my baby at home, but he's well taken care of in my absence, but I gotta get back because. All these things are going through your head. How does that help? Uh, because the, the health and the mental challenges, the physical and mental challenges for women in general, but especially women of color are very difficult to overcome in this rat race. That is corporate America.

You know, um, my first job in the U S was working at a show. I don't know if you guys remember it, primetime live.

Yep. I remember.

And on ABC. And, um, I, at that point had been working as a producer, um, in radio in Canada and covered again, the golf war, all kinds of stories. And I came to the U S and the first job and job I could get at that point, they were all entry level. So I went from being a producer in Canada to a researcher in, in New York city on primetime live. And I was like, I'm going to take it. Cause once I get in, I'm going to demonstrate what I can do. Again, I was in my 20s. I took it, um, and, and quickly started to accelerate. And I remember the hiring manager said to me, Your last manager at Radio Canada was so right, and, and I said to her, what did, what did she say? And she said, she gave me advice about managing you. She said that I had to keep you busy. She said if I kept giving you more assignments, you'd always rise to it and you would get it done. And I have never forgotten that. Because it really pissed me off. I was so angry. Because basically, what I was told is, I had to work harder than everybody else in the room. Right, exactly. Right, there was no, no letting down. Don't give her down, down time. Keep her working, keep her working. And, and I've learned over the years that that's true for Black women in general. We are expected to work harder We're expected to be smarter, we're expected to do it silently, you know, we face microaggressions and it takes a toll. It takes a toll on our mental health, it takes a toll on our physical health, it takes a toll on our families. It is hard and that's why at the beginning of this conversation I wanted to Us to make sure in talking about how to negotiate, you know, your next salary, how to move up the corporate ladder. We're also talking about how to stay healthy. Because it takes a toll.

Tell us some of the things that Black women go through from a health standpoint. Like what, what ailments, what some of the things that they're dealing with as they juggle all these things you just got finished talking about.

So, you know, it's, for Black women it's compounded because we have both, um, disadvantages that we're, and crises that we're facing all the time around, um, race as well as gender. So we, it's double edged. And, um, so some of the stats, I, I, I have some with me. Um, we have chronic stress as a result of this double burden. Um, and we suffer it at a chronic stress at a rate that is higher than anybody else's. 1 in every 2 black women in the United States, United States suffers from diabetes and heart degree, heart disease. Um, and stress is also a factor in the development of breast cancer. We have breast cancer at higher rates than, than other women. Um, black women are 60%, 60 percent more likely to have blood pressure than any other demographic, high blood pressure than any other demographic in the country. Um, we have higher rates of cardiovascular disease, um, coronary, coronary disease. We have higher rates of stroke deaths, um, compared to non Hispanic white counterparts. And we just die at disproportionate rates. Don't even get me started about maternal care and, and, and, and what happens to women when we get sick and we're in hospitals or when we are trying to deliver our, our babies and what happens to us. Our pain isn't recognized. I mean, I can go on and on. Um, so we continue to just face this intersection, intersectional oppression as Black women. And, and no matter what level of success you're at, it happens. I'm, you may have read this. There were stories during, um, COVID of Black women who, Were professionals and got sick and went to the hospital. There was a story of a black woman who was a physician, was in the hospital, was sick, was able to self diagnose, knew what was going on with her. And she could not get the doctors and nurses in the hospital. She was at to give her the medication she needed. They didn't take her seriously. And she texted her family on the day she died in the hospital because she knew What was going on, and she knew she was dying and she died that happens to black women. So it's really important that not only do we have conversations about how to get ahead. But we need to have conversations about how to take care of ourselves while we're climbing.

So one of the difficulties in that is you talked about the higher you go, the more narrow it becomes, right?

Right.

And the reality of it is for black women in particular, it's pinpoint narrow.

Yeah.

And so as you ascend in your career, um, the isolation has to be, we're, we're made to be communal. Creatures, right? Human beings naturally thrive and, and, and do well in societal norms or, or, you know, in societies where we can collaboratively work together. But when you're in these situations or you're in these positions like yourself, how tough is it to feel like you're on an Island? How tough is it to look around? And you're the, at this place, when you were young, you were the only black thing there. But as you grow up and go up and the responsibilities get that much more magnified How tough is it for you to feel like you're on an island and you have responsibilities to the community, to your family, to all the, like, how does that factor into your mental health and makeup as well?

So I think that what we have to do, first of all, Black men and women prioritize our health because black men have some very extreme Health outcomes as well. I mean from prostate cancer to also breast cancer by high blood pressure high blood pressure High cholesterol and so on. So this is for both of us Because we're all one but what I'll say is we absolutely have to prioritize our wellness that and that's both physical And mental, um, but in doing so, there are, there are all sorts of strategies you can employ to get there. I will tell you that. I get ahead, um, not because I just do it on my own and I'm in isolation working hard. I'm able to survive because I have an incredible family. I have such strong support at home between my nuclear family and my extended family. And I also have the most amazing circle of women who support me. You know, my, my mom, I am so fortunate. She's still here kicking and, um, like questioning me and, and challenging me. And, and, and she is a blessing and my number 1 cheer leader. And, you know, I don't get into conversations with my mom about a contract negotiation or some stress at the office because she doesn't have the means to. But my mom recognizes when I am stressed and she'll be the first person who'll say, Geri, did you eat?

Right?

Did you slow down? Why? Why are you going so fast? Like she will force me to put on the brakes. My sister does that. My girlfriends do that in my circle of friends. We do things all the time to help each other, and I will say I do it with my male friends, too. Um, so it is important that you have a life outside of your job, that you're doing things that are outside of what you do, you know, nine to five, that you have outside interests. But you're also doing healthy things. So it's one thing to get home and just say, I'm so exhausted. I can't do anything but turn on some streaming channel, right? I'm not naming any, they're the competition. Um, but you've, you've got to do things, whether it is walking, exercise, reading, keeping your mind sharp, gardening, travel, cycling, kayaking. I love kayaking. Like whatever it is. Do something. Um, and then what I also do like for my own personal wellness, um, is around stressing and anxiety is I, I count, there are multiple counting exercises and there's one, this is a yoga technique and it's called four, seven, eight. And you inhale for, for four seconds. And then you hold your breath for seven seconds and you count, and then you exhale for eight. And if I am in, the beauty of this is you can do it silently, nobody knows you're doing it. And if I am in a particularly stressful corporate meeting, I just start breathing.

That is great. How do we take So number one, thank you for that, uh, because those are some good anecdotes that, you know, people listening, that they can put those things into action. From a work standpoint, what would you recommend based on You know, black women trying to be super women, not trying, they are super women, right? They are. And they're doing all these things, but then it's degrading their health, alright? And you talked about the things that they can do to, to hopefully alleviate some of that. But from a work standpoint, when they're at work and they're trying to climb the corporate ladder, they want to be that voice in the room. They have great ideas and they want to be respected, right? What are some of the things that you would recommend that they can be able to do to navigate corporate America, become successful, and still keep their sanity and health as well?

So there are a bunch of things you can do. Um, first there's a difference between a mentor and a sponsor, right? A mentor is someone who coaches you, listens to you, gives you some advice, um, you see them periodically. A sponsor is someone who believes in you and picks up the phone and makes things happen.

Mm-Hmm,

We, we need mentors, but we even need even more sponsors. Right? And, and the reality is most of the time your sponsors are going to be white men. Because they're the ones who are in the position of power. So it's really important that you develop relationships with everybody, right? So you need your sister circles, but you also need relationships with people who can be sponsors. And, and I think that, um, if you're able to develop those relationships along the way and maintain them and nurture them, Means, like, thinking about cards, thinking about mutual interests, thinking, always, always saying, thank you. And I personally believe that when you are kind and compassionate and thoughtful, and you treat people that way. Most of the time, not always, but most of the time, they treat you the same way back. And throughout my career, I have had moments when people have called and said, Hey, I don't know if you're aware of this opportunity, but I think you'd be perfect for it. Those things happen when you nurture those relationships. It's a lot harder to move forward if you're uncovering every stone yourself.

Right?

So I think part of it is around, um, relationships. The other thing is we only know what we know, right? And we don't know everything. So one of the things that I do, um, and I do this with women is. We will have, you know, salons for lack of a better word, where we'll get together, um, and pick a topic. And just everybody comes and we have this open unfiltered, um, conversation with some rules like rules that this is confidential. You can't share it. This is not going to be on social media, right? It's not pillow talk. This is, you know, this is confidential,

right?

And, and we've done everything from talking about, um, aging and how our bodies change to negotiation habits, um, and skills to a, I and how a, I is changing our, um, our occupations and opportunities. To, um, we've most recently in the fall, I did it with a group of women and we talked about, um, insurance and insurance options, life insurance, because, you know, You know, you get to your job and you just check boxes, but there really are multiple factors to think about and, and, and, um, and dependent care and, and what happens when you're not working anymore and how does insurance work and, and so on. And these are conversations that if you're waiting for someone to tell you, like, to get a call from HR, it's not going to happen. Like, you've got to self advocate. Right. And, and it's true for things. In our communities, too. It's how we organize around voting. It's how again, going back to Covid. It's how we organize to make sure the people who were most shut out in our communities. Got the care that they needed. Um, so I, I think that we have to make sure that we fight against isolation because yes, it's true. Sometimes you are the only one at the table. There's no question. Only one in the room. Like, it's going to happen again and again.

Right.

But if you have these other circles outside, Right? That keep you strong. You can break, they're your cloak when you go into that meeting. And then you can get out and call your girl and say, Listen, you know what just happened? You know what they just said? Can I tell you what just happened? Right, right, right. And do that all the time.

So with you in engaging with other high achieving, uh, black professionals, black women about these different topics that aren't just always professional, some of our personal, you having your mother as an accountability buddy, you have an accountability circle and you, uh, contributing to this human equity. Um, have you always been like that? Or was that something you had to learn the hard way? Or how does someone who's on the fast track and thinking they have to be focused and, and. You know, pinpoint precision on career, career, career. How do they take a breath? Is it, does it have to be super intentional to do so? Or do you have to connect with those people who you could be vulnerable with in order to allow for you that opportunity to vent without going crazy and wanting to flatten the tires or whatever the case, but how do you develop that? Is that something that you just came with or was that something you had to go out and seek?

So, Honestly, I for me, I think it was learned behavior, right? I grew up in the Caribbean. They have different names for it in different Caribbean countries, and it comes from Africa, but there's this tradition in Jamaica. We call it partner. I think in Trinidad, it's called something like that. Somebody's going to text me and say that's not what it's called. Um, but it's called different things. And it's basically this tradition of getting a group of people and you all put in the same amount of money. Um, into a collective pot, and each month one person draws.

Yeah, I remember that. My neighbor, he did that.

Right? And like, it is a very simple, logical way to help each other. Say, for instance, for your first home down payment. If you're with five people you trust, right, and each of you, every month, is putting in a thousand. That's And, and then when it's your turn, you get back five or six thousand, right? So it has to be, the group has to commit to do it. If it's a hundred dollars, if it's five dollars, when it's your draw, you get a lump sum that would take you so much longer to try and save on your own. So it's about, um, accountability among your circle. But I remember watching my mom, who was a single mom with four of us, um, do that again and again and again with women. And, and it was how she helped pay bills, um, school trips, uh, trips. She'd take us on these family trips back home to see her parents, my grandparents. It's how she got the money to do it as a single mom. So. I grew up, I don't think the things that I'm doing are necessarily original or, or new. And what she was doing wasn't original or new. She saw that from her parents who learned that tradition from their parents and so on. Because again, that's a, an African tradition. That's a, uh, a viable solution in multiple cultures and And that's what we did growing up. And I think that so many of the things that I do today are extensions of what I observed in my own home growing up.

Wow. Thank you for that wisdom. That was awesome. And I do remember that because my neighbor, he was Jamaican and he, they did this. And I think one time it was his turn and he got like five, 10 grand. I forget what it was. And then, but he just kept putting money in it. So that is awesome. So let me, you've, you've given us a lot of information. Um, You know, the love that you have for your fellow human being and something that you talked about earlier, but you wanted everybody to be seen as human beings. Yes, revenue has to be driven. Yes, you know, KPIs have to be met. But in the day you have to see everyone as a human being. So number one, I want to thank you because, you know, people, like you said, we don't know everything. And at the end of the day, having somebody like yourself, come on. And be authentic and share this, I can tell you flat out, there's going to be people that listen to this male and female that are going to get a ton out of it. I'll be honest with you. I took a couple of notes myself. Okay. So we want to thank you. But what the question I have for you is how can a black executive perspective podcast help you Geraldine?

I think that, um, it would be great. If you read some of these stories, like we're trying to amplify all that we can in terms of stories that empower and motivate and protect black America. And I think it would be wonderful if you pause to see what we are doing. You know, now at theGrio, like take a look at theGrio. com because honestly, all of that data that I just gave you, I got from articles. Our reporters are reporting on. all the time. You know, there's an election coming up and we're paying attention and we're reporting on that. We talk about black women, we talk about black men, like, sure, there's a lot of stories that are there to entertain, but if you, you know, if you, if you don't laugh, you'll cry. So we will entertain you, but we also take life pretty seriously and protecting our community pretty seriously. So if One thing you could do, I'd say, check out theGrio. com.

Absolutely. Everyone, go to www. theGrio. com. Read, learn, understand. And you just said something that's very key. There is an election coming up. So really, it's about trying to get facts. And really, because there's going to be a lot of things thrown out there that people are just going to say, that 9 times out of 10 is not true. So, You have a resource here, theGrio. com. Check them out. Very personable. They're going to tell you personal stories. We're going to get to read them, but more importantly, they're going to have facts that can back up, right? Which is really the key, especially today. So Geraldine, Geraldine Moriba, we want to thank you for, uh, for joining us. Being a guest on A Black Executive Perspective, we wish you nothing but mad success, which we know that you're going to have it because you already speak to it. Okay. So we, we continue, continue mad, mad success, and we wish theGrio mad success as well. I think it's now time for Tony's tidbit. It's time for Tony's tidbit, and as always, our tidbit is always based on what we talked about today. So today's tidbit is, in the face of stereotypes and microaggressions, our brilliance cannot be dimmed. Instead, it illuminates the path for those to come. To the resilient women leading with grace, you are not just setting the table, you are redefining what it means to sit at it, leading the way with light and strength. And if anybody epitomizes that is Geraldine Moriba. All right. And at the end of the day, there's going to be a lot more women. Excuse me. They are a lot more women that's leading the way their light is shining because they bring it. So I hope you enjoyed today's episode, Balancing Act, Black Women Executives Managing Health and Career. So now it's time for a Black Executive Perspective Call to Action, which is called LESS, L E S S. This is something that we want Everyone to do an L stands for learn. We want you to learn about other racial and cultural nuances and people. So that's going to enlighten you.

And then the E stands for empathy to understand diverse perspectives is the best way that you can consume all the information at your disposal.

And then S stands for share. Now you want to share what you've learned to your friends and family so they can become enlightened as well.

And the last S stands for stop actively work on stopping discrimination and fostering inclusivity. This will help build a fairer, more supportive, more understanding world. Let's all do this every day and we'll start to see the change we want to see.

Absolutely. Thanks, Chris. So again, you can tune in to the next episode of the black executive perspective podcast, wherever you get your podcast, go to our website, give us a rating, give us some feedback. How did you like Geraldine? What questions Chris and I didn't ask her what more information that you want to know, please let us know. And you can follow a black executive perspective podcast on our social channels, Instagram X, YouTube, Tik TOK, and Facebook. Good night. At a black exec for our fabulous guests, Gerald, Geraldine Moriba for my co hosts, Chris P. Reed for the lady behind the glass in here. That's also a super woman. Noelle Miller. That's pulling all the levers. I'm Tony tidbit. We talked about it. We love you and we're out

a black executive perspective.