Hey everybody. Welcome back to another edition of the daily Bible podcast. Hi everybody. This is pastor rod. What's up. How you doing? Are you, you just are, we I'm doing it different. I'm trying on different things. Are you going to ask the audience to tell me things or like we not talking, is this like, will you tell pastor PGA that we're not. That's what it sounded like. It sounded like I was not here anymore because. Hail everybody's pastoring. Yeah. Could you tell pastor PJ that I'm not ready to do this? Yeah, no, no, I I'm fine. I'm just continuing to change things up. Okay. No, I feel like we it's one of those things where you, when you talk for a living, this is our job. Yep. Um, it's, it's almost like a service to the people that listen to you to, to change things. To use a different words and to try different cadences and things like that. And I know there's only so much that you can do. We're finding that we're not God, so we can't figure it infinite ways of approaching this, but I just feel like Matt is there. Is there. I know, because maybe if I were them, I would fast forward the first like 45 seconds of our podcast. Cause I'm like, okay, I know what they're going to say. Yeah, no, that's fair. At least the first 30 seconds, maybe, maybe even 45 or 60. Sometimes we get into fun stuff other times it's like, okay, I know what they're gonna be doing. No, that's fair. We'll call that Google-y we haven't brought up that person in a long time. Nope. Nope. Some people skip our Google y'all together. You Google lies. Um, Hey, we, we didn't mention it. Uh, we should have mentioned that probably yesterday. Cause it was the first one back since it happened. But man, our kids did such a fantastic job at the kids' Christmas choir. Yes they did. They did amazing. I was, I was so pleased and it was. It was substantive. That's what I sat there thinking about as I was watching it. I said, I was like, man, this is so good. There's. There's truth being communicated here. Yeah, there were the lighthearted moments, moments, the funny moments. Uh, but there was, there was good truth. And so if there were unbelievers there listening to that, there were not only looking at a bunch of cute kids, sing some good songs, but then they were being confronted with some realities that they needed to be confronted with. We could just get the sermon. Yeah, we probably could have was so dense. So rich. Yup. Yep. Yeah. So good job. Julia Kogan was instrumental in that as was Ariel Robbins and Priscilla Rapido. So the three of them. It's such a good job, so good. So hard. Yeah. Yeah, and the kids did great. They were attentive. They were engaged. They were singing some of them. With more passion than I've ever seen anybody else saying that's a, that's always a fun time, man. Yeah. Remember, last year we had a fun one, a wild card. This year, different kinds of wildcards, different kinds of wildcards. That was good. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Yep. Yep. All right. Well, we've got the book of Titus yesterday's was a little bit on the longer side. Maybe we'll shorten it up a little bit. We've only got three chapter misses. And some of it, we kind of covered cause it's qualification for elders again, but there's one thing that we do need to talk about in here, because if it's true, Only one, the way that he is V translates it, man. You and I better find different jobs, but we'll get there. That's what they call a teas. Oh man. Yeah, professional status right there. Write a hook. Are you guys hugged? You feel it? Yeah. Should be. Anyways, the letter opens up here again, similar. I don't know, pastor rod, do you have any more information on the background of this letter to Titus than we do really? With the background to Timothy there? No. I mean, it's, it's a pastoral epistle, right? So you should be thinking about your own pastors and even if you, well, I guess that's worth clarifying. Um, pastoral epistles. It's pastor Paul to pastor Titus, pastor Timothy. Right? Certainly there's not anything in here for me. Right. That's exactly right. So just close your Bibles and be done. Skip it. This is not for you. It's the only for us, right. Yeah, no. In fact. Our men's Bible study in the spring, or when we come back from the holidays is going to be focused on how all of us as men need to basically be striving to be elder qualified men. That's right. Um, so this is for everybody. And, and even like to your point, yeah. If, if you're not a man out there listening to this, or you're a young man listening to this or something, or even if you are just a godly man out there, These are things that are important for you to know about these are, this is what our pastors should be doing. This is who they should be. Um, and so we welcome you to read this. We want you to read this because we want to be. Men of the word we want to be qualified and, and pastor, well, in that regard, He opens up with a greeting and I found his greeting interesting here. He says that he is writing for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth. And then he says this which Accords with godliness, we've made this point a couple of times recently. But notice that the knowledge of the gospel, the knowledge of the truth, ease not, is not at odds with growing in godliness. It's not as though those two things are separated that you've got well, I understand the gospel and know the gospel, so I'm good over here. It doesn't matter about how I live my life. No, it. Paul would say. Exactly the opposite. Your knowledge of the truth should produce scout Venus in your life. That's what he's saying. It Accords with it. It's in agreement with it. There. Uh, and so this is, uh, something we're in. We would say this is talking about what we know as Lordship salvation. If you follow Christ as savior, you must submit to him as Lord, and you must obey him as such because that's what the knowledge of truth does it produces godliness in your life. Um, he opens the letter, whereas, uh, in his letter to Timothy, it took him a little bit longer to get there, but here he there's a problem in Crete. He wants Titus specifically verse five to put what remained into order. And so, uh, perhaps there was a little bit more urgency than there was with Timothy. Cause it took him a minute or two to get to the qualifications of elders with Timothy, but here with Titus it's right off the bat, he says, so what I want you to do to do that? And here's an argument in favor of, of a biblical model of eldership. We didn't really touch on that yesterday, but there are different ways. That church has governed themselves. You've got the, the Presbyterian church. You've got bishops, you've got, um, you've got the, of course the Catholic church with the Pope and, and so forth and so on. But then you've got some Baptist churches which have the pastor as the he's the decision maker. Then you've got the congregational model where the congregation is going to vote on everything that comes before the church. Paul. Tells Titus here, put it into order and do so by appointing elders in every town. I think that speaks volumes about what the biblical model for church poly is that it's an elder led model. Um, Elder led even as is different than elder ruled. Um, pastor, rod, some of the differences there nuance between those two terms. Any thoughts on that? Yeah, I would say elder rule tends to have a more authoritarian bent to it. It is more like this is what we're, we're choosing to do. Um, and that's communicated to the body, whereas elder led. Uh, suggesting more engaged elder ship. Those who are interacting with the body, engaging with the body. It's not like the sheep have no voice. She should have a voice. In fact, they're given great privileges and honors and the church. Um, they're Christ people after all, so that the elder led model, I think a. Seriously weighs and considers the impact or the. The input of the body of Christ. Yeah. Whereas the elder rule is. Uh, as it is going to be a little more. Um, I guess it's hard because it's, some of the lines are blurry between. Between the two of them. Uh, but elder rules is, uh, I think, and you can tell me if I'm wrong here. I think a little more. Not aloof. That's the wrong word. But. Um, they make decisions on behalf of the church. There's not a whole lot of input. That's requested of that right there. The conductors of the train get on board. And take your seat. That's a good way to put it. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Titus one six. This is the one that stands out, at least to me in the ESV translation. If anyone is above reproach. Okay. Check. We've got that in Timothy as well. The husband of one wife. Okay. Check. We got that in Timothy as well. This next phrase in his children are believers. Now you'll note there's a number five there in your, uh, ESV text. And if you drop down to the bottom of the page that footnote says or are faithful, and I think the ESV. Uh, I don't, I don't know why the editors decided to go this route, but I think they missed on this because I don't think the qualification of the elders that his children have to be Christians. And the reason I say that, It's because of that's a qualification for an elder. Uh, pastor rod, you have unbelievers in your home. I have unbelievers in my home right now, who are our children, and we're doing everything that we possibly can to put the gospel before them, but like anyone else in the church, we know that that is ultimately up to the Lord and we're praying for their salvation. But, but if in, in less, we're going to throw an age of accountability in here, which is, is going further than what the text would imply. And I don't know where that age of accountability would come in there. Um, I don't think we can push this to say that a qualification for an elders that he has to have saved children. I think this is more about his children are faithful. In other words, they're not in open rebellion to their parents or to the Lord in any capacity. There is a time if a pastor has a child that is in, in open rebellion to the Lord, that is, is clearly walking contrary to the Lord that yeah, he may need to step out in, and that may be a temporal disqualification for him or. Perhaps longer, depending on the situation where he needs to give his attention to his family. Because again, the point is, how can you manage the house of God if he can't manage his own family? But I don't think the fact that there are children in the home that aren't saved. I don't think that's a disqualification to ministry. Yeah. And he gets the question. Really floats around what is meant by the word faithful. And that's why the ESV editors went with the word, um, believers, because that's typically how it's used and, and, and the new Testament. Uh, but I do like the alternative reading because it does, it does give a little more wiggle room and I feel like it honestly deals with the text what's being said here. Is Paul really saying that children have to be believers? Um, that's less likely and granted it is a fair reading. Is it the best reading though? And that's where I think we would have to say. Uh, no one controls the outcome of someone's salvation. Now you could argue as some, some have said to me before, like your kids have a better chance of being a Christian. If they're in a pastored household. Yeah. I don't like the terminology of chance. There's no such thing as chance in the Christian worldview. But they should be more exposed to it. I mean, as if it's a well-functioning pastoral household, there should be a sense in which the kids have a lot more opportunity to respond to the gospel. And I think that's the point. It doesn't, it does suggest that kind of behavior that's expected from a pastor's kid at PK. Doesn't expect perfection. And I know there's a, there's kind of a, there's this negative undertone about PKS in the church about them being especially rebellious or wicked. That shouldn't be the case because this text tells us that to be qualified as a pastor, you have to have them under control. There needs to be some exercise of authority there. Secondarily, it doesn't mean that. Uh, church families necessarily should be calling the kids out and saying, Hey, you're a PK. Shouldn't be smoking this. Or I guess you could, it should be smoking things. Yeah, you can call our kids out on that. And please tell us we want to deal with that right away. You shouldn't be acting this way or that way. And some of that, you can avoid some of that. You can't because you live in a church bowl or a church fishbowl, but all that to say you and I are in both agreement that this is not a matter of salvation. This is a matter of. Uh, practical application turns into the kids being well-behaved, that'd be the short, the short story. Yeah. And, and to further support that, if you go back to, for some of the chapter three and our discussion on that yesterday. If you flip back over to first Timothy three, four, he must manage his own household. Well, with all dignity, keeping his children submissive is what it says there. Uh, the phrase is not utilized there. So if this is necessary, if this is a qualification that his children have to be Christian, they have to be saved. Well, then there's something glaringly absent in first, Timothy chapter three, as far as the qualifications of an elder there. But if this is more of that, he must be, they must be faithful. Well, th that seems to be more in agreement with first Timothy three, four, that he should keep his children submissive. Nobody's in open rebellion, nobody's doing something that they shouldn't be doing in that regard. And so I think that, that that's, uh, probably the direction that we should. Interpret and understand things here. Um, Yeah, he goes on here and it talks about the contrast of those that are qualified. And he talks about those that are leading people astray. Those are the circumcision party. Again, those would have been the Judaizers coming in, trying to, uh, enforce the law where the law doesn't have room anymore. Doesn't have application anymore in the realm of sanctification and justification. Um, he says that Timothy should rebuke them sharply that they may be sound in the faith. And he describes these people as those that profess to know God, but deny him by their works and that. Goes back to what we talked about at the very beginning of this episode. There's a profession of knowledge that is undercut by the way you live your life. If your profession of knowledge of Christ is not undergirded by an evidence of it in godliness, then you are functionally denying your own words. You're denying your profession. Doesn't matter how passionate and zealous you are. If your profession of faith in Jesus is not transforming your life. Man, there's a disconnect. There's something wrong there. Timothy in contrast to that in chapter two is supposed to teach that which Accords with sound, the word there means healthy. Healthy doctrine. A doctrine is teaching. Um, it's sound doctrine in the sense that this is what's in accordance with the truth. And then he goes through and says, and this is going to have impact on the different people in the church, older men. Older women, young women, young men, bond servants. I love this passage because people have asked us before they've come in and said, Hey. Do you guys have a young adults group? Do you guys have a single 49 year old group? Do you guys have a, you know, I like to work on my car in the middle of the night group and it's like, well, No, we don't. We have community groups and they're not broken down by age. Uh they're cross-generational intergenerational because we believe in what Paul's talking about here with Titus, that these generations coming together and living out sound doctrine in the presence of one another is healthy and right. And it's the correct thing for us to do. Um, and it's, it's the right model to have. So that's not to say that there's never a time for an age-based ministry. But by and large, we want to, we want to get people in there and we want people to be encouraging each other and we want people to be, um, Learning from the older and the younger. Uh, like in that. Yeah, there's probably a good time for those things. Uh, but within the church, generally, a good practice, a good rule of thumb to cross-pollinate. It's good for you to be around different people. In fact, we should really lean into those things because they're opportunities for us to learn and grow. Yeah. If you're only surrounded by people that are like you that believe like you that speak like you, that are the same age and stage. Yeah, the growth opportunity is going to be far less. You're not going to be out of your comfort zone. And I think that's what pastor Paul would tell Patrick Titus. I would agree. I would agree. I love this at the end there and don't miss it just because it's addressed initially to bond servants and you would think, okay, well, that's, I'm not a bond servant. Uh, but I love the description here in the obedience that they are in everything adorning, the doctrine of God, our savior, making it look beautiful. I love that concept. That that's what we're called to do as Christians. By the way we conduct ourselves, we can have an impact on the way people view Jesus and do the gospel, uh, by extension. From here, he goes on and talks about that doctrine. And he talks about the grace of God. And, and you've preached on this recently, but that basically the grace of the grace that saves is a grace that trains, it's not just a grace that saves us and leaves us, but it actually does something in our life. Do you want to unpack the end of chapter two for us? I mean, you just said it. That was, that was it in a nutshell, the grace that saves us the grace, that trains. Um, And don't, don't take the grace of God in vain. I think that's Paul, Paul. I said that elsewhere actually to the Corinthian church, um, God's grace has appeared in the person that person has lived and died in our place. And once he has done that, he has sent the spirit and that spirit now trains us in verse 12 to say no to these bad things and to say yes to these really good things. And one of those things that we say yes to is that hope that, uh, that hope waiting for our blessed hope. The second coming of Jesus Christ. And then Paul reminds us, the reason that Jesus came was to redeem us from lawlessness. How crazy would it be to say I saved you from the burning house, but you run back into the burning house and get sandwiched and burn. And he smelled like smoke. And go for the Christian is to live out the call without the identity that Christ has given us. And let me do this. We demonstrate that zeal for good works, that, that, and that's what he designed us for. We are his possession. And we're not to be static or past. About about good works. Would it be zealous for them, which communicates the kind of intensity that someone brings to the work that they do? Yeah. Again, thematically, this goes back to the beginning of the letter, their knowledge of truth, which Accords with godliness they're there in that relationship again. Chapter three. I love the opening here. I think this is a good aim for all of us in the church. When he says in verse two, that we should speak evil of no one avoid coralling be gentle show. Perfect courtesy towards all people. The other day. Um, Getting ready to record this episode. I went over this with my family, with, with my kids and said, look, let's make this our aim as a family that we would speak evil of no one that we would avoid coralling and fighting with each other, that we would be gentle towards each other and show perfect courtesy towards one another. Let's start that here in the home. If we're going to have to do that outside the home. Let's let's start it here and have that be what were characterized. Uh, by here in that, uh, eh, I mean, that's you talked about counter-cultural. This is counter-cultural because this is against our flesh. Our flesh wants to lash out against all these things, but like you just said, This is some of what the spirit is training us to renounce is the opposite of these things. Um, the, the, the tongue that wants to lash out and hurt someone with the words, the person that wants the fight that walks into it, like Proverbs 18, the mouth, the lips walk into the fight. Um, th that doesn't want us to be gentle. Um, And wants us to, to fight back to lash out. Like one of my kids said, well, the opposite of pink gentle would be punching someone and kicking them. I was like, he's great. Sam. Yep. You got it, buddy. Yes, that would be the opposite of gentle. Um, yeah, so just a good, a good reminder there for us. Of what our aim is. And then he talks about the gospel there, starting in verse four, the goodness and loving kindness of God. Our savior appeared. Uh, saved us, not because of our works, but because of the holy spirit sealing us in, in the righteousness that we have, according to his own mercy, that washing of regeneration, we are made new reborn by the holy spirit. Which again, to your point, if we've been reborn, if we've been regenerated, why would we go back and act like we weren't? Why would we go back and act like the dead man? Paul talks about that in Romans 16. Um, careful to devote themselves to there it is again, good works showing up there that godliness for us. Uh, so, and then he, at the end talks about the being zealous for the unity of the church. He says as for a person who stirs up division after warning him once and then twice have nothing more to do with him. So that's. Ah, man, that's something that tells us. We need to look out for divisive people within the body of Christ, and we're not going to put up with them. Uh, we're going to warn them and call them to away from that, the way that we should. But then, uh, this even kind of circumvents the, the church discipline thing here with a divisive person, I think this is church discipline, or at least it's it. It points that direction. I wanted to ask you though, can you identify or illustrate some of the ways that people can stir up division? Oh, yeah, because I think we, we could read this. I don't know anybody that would say, yeah, this makes perfect sense to me. Someone whose device it needs to get out? Well, maybe we're not clear about what, what actually is divisive. Yeah. Yeah. There's ways to be divisive. I think if you're undercutting the, the, the voice of the leadership in your church, when the voice of the leadership in your church is not committing something that's unbiblical. So this isn't a matter of sin. But you are conveying something, you are disagreeing openly. You are not going to the leaders and talking with them, but you're having conversations behind the back. Let's say it's about, uh, you know, uh, the, the style of music that you don't like, that there's drums on the stage. And so you're going to talk to everybody in the church about the fact that you don't like that there's are drums on the stage and you feel like that's wrong. I mean, and, and the pastors go to you and say, Hey, let's have a conversation. And either you reject that or you have the conversation, then you continue to have those conversations. That's an example of being divisive in the church. Um, or if you're. You know, saying, Hey. The sermon was on this, this last week. I don't think that's right. I think that's wrong. And I think this is what it is. It's it's one thing to ask questions and it's, it's one thing to have disagreements with the pastor. I get that you're going to disagree with me when, when I preach things. I'm not saying that everything that I preach is going to be something that you're going to get along with and agree with. But how do you handle that? That would be an example of being divisive. Uh, is it something that you're like, is this. If it's worth raising the red flag about then raise the red flag to the people you need to raise it to, which is the pastor's right. But if not, then it's not something for you to go around and say, oh, well, I'm against this doctrine. I'm against the doctrine of, uh, I don't, I'm looking for a non-controversial doctor, give me a non-controversial doctrine. Somebody might be against and non-controversial is. Is there such a thing let's take dispensationalism. Let's say somebody that's like, I'm not pre-millennial I'm all millennial, right? I get out of the church. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, no. You can be a part of our church and that's great. And we love that. And we're w w we love to have you there, but if you're going to be there and your constant messaging is going to be pre millennial is. Pre millennialism is wrong. Amil is right. And you're idiots to believe this, then you're going to be warned once worn twice, and then we're going to have nothing to do with you anymore. Well, I would even take out that last part. You're idiots to believe this. I would say when you're undermining. We're teaching. Yeah. That was extreme. That would cause likely it's not going to be the case. Most people are much, much more cordial about that. But notice verse 10, again, as for the person who stirs up division. It was just someone who's pro provoking and creating, uh, problems. And those kinds of problems can be rather innocuous. Yeah, I guess I would just, I want people to see that because it's yeah, that's true. It's something that can happen so easily when, when you're just talking shop around, you know, the water cooler, you're not thinking, oh, I I'm actually stirring up division by the way that I'm talking about ABC or D those are something, those are things that policy, those are so serious. Yeah. That it's enough to say I'm going to give you two warnings and then you're out. Yeah. Uh, that's a big deal. I'd pay close attention to that. That can spark church, church discipline. If this happens to be you now, if you're concerned about this and you're thinking maybe this is me, you know, that might be a good thing, but it's probably not. Not as likely. Just be careful, be aware. Uh, no, no. That the tone and temperament really matter when you are approached. Areas of disagreement. A hundred percent. Yep. I agree. I agree. All right. Let's pray. No, we'll be done with this episode. God, give us a church that is United and unified. Lowden in help that to start at the top with pastors that hold fast to your word and preach sound doctrine. Uh, let us give no cause for there to be any severe in legitimate reasons for there to be a discord within the body of Christ. We want to make sure that, that we are doing our role, but God, I pray for our church body. That is, uh, that loves your word and loves the bride of Christ enough to die, to preferences, to die to self when this is a secondary or tertiary issue. That is not of the level of something that would threaten someone's salvation. We can agree. To disagree and still have fellowship with one another. And there's going to be times unfortunately, where people are going to have to move on because they feel like they need to go someplace where they can agree. And we understand that as well. Got we desire the unity of the broader Christ above all. And so help us to strive after that. To love each other through the whole thing. Uh, well, and to be a church that's characterized by that love, we pray in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Can you bring your Bibles to me in again tomorrow for another edition of the daily Bible podcast, to see if folks.