Hey everybody,

welcome to the Craft Beer Republic.

Just Greg here today on a field trip.

I'm out in Fillmore at Red Engine Brewing Company who just had their grand opening by the time this airs a couple weeks ago.

I'm being joined by the founder,

sort of builder,

the brewmaster,

the funder,

what else did you do?

Toilet boy washer.

Plumber.

Yeah,

you name it.

It's happening like that.

Preston Andrini.

Did I say that right?

Mm-hmm.

You did.

Nailed it.

I nailed it.

Thanks for coming out,

man.

Yeah,

thanks for...

Yeah.

I'm very excited.

We talked about on the show that a few weeks back you guys had industry night.

We were honored to be invited.

We showed up and we were pleasantly surprised that a brewery that just opened had so many good beers already.

Oh,

thank you so much.

I mean,

usually it takes six months or so to dial your stuff in and not...

Well,

I mean,

maybe you've had six months to dial your stuff in.

I have for sure.

Yeah,

six months has been like,

yeah,

recent.

We've been working on...

Fortunately,

we've had a couple of friends that we've been able to brew beers at

their places and put them on at their places and get a little bit of

feedback and do some beer festivals and stuff like that and again,

get some feedback.

And that's definitely helped make some corrections for us so we could hit it off here as good as it would let us.

To get a lot of Hayes Boy feedback at the festivals,

like,

"Hey,

bro,

not hazy enough." So here's the deal with the festivals.

At least this is what I've...

On the serving side,

what I've realized the pattern is,

is there's guys that...

There's hop heads,

right?

They're like,

"I want to smell it from a mile away.

I don't want to see through it.

I want it to be near 8%." Juicy as can be.

And then there's the complete opposite is like,

"I don't want anything bitter.

Give me the lowest ABV lager that you have." And those are basically the two folks that at least are the most vocal like at these beer festivals.

I think the third group is like those guys in their mid-40s who came up on like Stone IPA.

And they're like,

"I want you to rip the enamel off my teeth.

If I can see through it,

it's good.

This is hazy.

This is bullshit." Those are always my favorite.

And we do have that here a little bit at the brewery.

But usually at the festivals,

folks are trying to...

Well,

again,

there's maybe two types of folks.

People are like,

"Hey,

I want to try to drink everything here.

So I'm going to take it easy." The challenge.

I'm going to take it...

Or yeah,

even the opposite of that.

I'm going to take it as a challenge.

Or people who are just trying to survive the day and they know they have a hill to climb.

So they're like,

"I'll only fill the taster up halfway." Again,

it's like the lager and IPA people that I see are populating those festivals.

I think you really...

And I've poured for different breweries for a few different festivals.

I think you really find out which people are which the last hour.

Because those are the people who are like,

"I'll take anything in my glass.

I'm just trying to keep this buzz going." Or you got the people who are still like,

"Oh man,

you ran out of the lager?

Shit,

that's too bad." So that really is like that line in the sand,

I think,

that last hour.

"Keep piling it on.

What do you mean you can't serve me anymore?" Yeah.

And we're just hoping to run out so the kegs aren't as heavy.

Right.

You don't want to carry it back.

Taking it back to the truck.

That's always my favorite.

It's like,

"Hey guys,

15 minutes left.

Stop serving." Like,

"Yeah,

no problem.

They're not pouring over here on the side." I remember one brewery was like,

"We can't serve you anymore,

but I'm not physically going to stop you from coming over here and pouring this tap handle because I'm not allowed to touch the guests." I get it.

He's like,

"And I don't want full kegs to go back with me." Yeah.

Anyways,

all right.

Enough about beer festivals.

So like we were saying,

we're going to find out about Red Engine Brewing.

We're going to find out about Preston and his background,

story of all this,

everything in between.

Before we get into that,

let's break some ice.

Let's start with the beer.

Okay.

Yeah,

which one?

You pick.

All right,

which one should we pick?

Would you have a flight in front of us for folks that can't see it?

There'll be pictures on the gram or anything.

Well,

let's just start it off with the Java bump.

Let's do it.

It's closest to you.

May I?

Yeah,

please.

Tell us about Java bump.

By the way,

Industry Night a few weeks ago,

this was my favorite beer of the night.

I actually made this beer for the first time in my garage.

And the concept was behind for a period of time,

there was a white stout phase where people were doing similar things.

I love that phase.

Yeah.

So this is our continuation of it.

But it's a base blonde and the hop is cascaded.

It's really low ABV.

I made it with cold brew coffee.

So it did change the color of it.

And then I made it in its current format,

which is like a whole bean where it still looks golden and it has that coffee aroma and coffee flavor for sure.

Do you dry hop it for lack of a better term on beans?

That's exactly how this is made.

The whole beans go in the fermenter after it's fermented out.

And we do a similar three days prior to kegging or canning it.

I think we use 18 pounds of coffee.

Total or per barrel?

Per beans.

For 15 barrels.

So it's a little over a pound a barrel.

Okay.

So not the cheapest beer you'll ever make.

No.

No,

I mean,

it's not cheaper than just the blonde by itself for sure.

But I think it gives it that dimension.

It's like the values there.

And then we partnered with Ragamuffin Roastery and out of Newberry and Oxnard,

they have some locations.

And the guys over there were super solid,

as we mentioned before,

the record button got hit.

We went over there,

did a cupping.

And drank way too much coffee that day.

And walked out of there levitating.

It was a lot of caffeine.

But learned a lot about coffee.

And this varietal is called Poccas and it's out of South America.

And it's a light roast,

barely touching medium roast.

And they just got this varietal out of a farm down there that they do business with.

It's a new varietal for the farm.

It's a new varietal for them.

And it was delicious.

It's the coffee format.

And so we did some...

I brought over our blonde and we took coffee and just put it in different...

Little coupé action.

Yeah.

In different increments and did a little raw.

And we're like,

"Okay,

I think this is in the wheelhouse and we'll see how it goes on the big system." Yeah.

Well,

it's great.

You get so much coffee up front,

coffee on the nose.

And we were joking beforehand,

this is the ultimate breakfast beer.

Yeah.

This is legit breakfast beer.

What's ABV on it?

5%.

So right in that low,

sessionable breakfast beer.

Yeah.

You can have a couple of these,

just a couple of cups of coffee.

I think we should probably pair it with a breakfast burrito here or something like that.

Dude.

Or breakfast pizza.

Could you imagine?

Just bacon and...

Maybe...

My God,

what's that called with the chips?

Chili-Killies?

Oh,

yeah.

Oh,

stop it.

We have to hit pause on this.

We go hit the kitchen real quick.

You got any chips back there?

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is phenomenal.

I love coffee beers.

It's no secret on this show.

Really,

really good.

Yeah.

My favorite thing about it is we'll have folks that come in and they'll see the coffee beer on the menu or the descriptor and they'll expect it to be dark.

Right.

And then it comes out golden and transparent.

And people are thinking...

I think it's a little bit more approachable.

People drink with their eyes a lot.

Yeah.

So just the way it looks in the glass,

it's definitely approachable.

And then they might want something that's dark.

And then we have our stout to kind of point them in the other direction,

which we'll get to here,

maybe next or whatever.

Sure.

Yeah.

The future iteration of this beer might involve some vanilla.

Oh.

A little like Café Con Leche vibe or something like that.

Maybe a little lactose in there.

Maybe.

Nitro.

Nitro.

There's a lot of...

Then you don't have to deal with the lactose.

There's a lot of stuff that I think...

There's a lot more fun to be had with this beer.

Yeah.

That would be fun.

Does any of the caffeine come through into the beer?

So there is trace caffeine.

Okay.

I couldn't give you the milligrams right now,

but a friend of mine who makes a similar beer did send it out to a lab and there is some trace caffeine.

But not like...

It's very low.

We're not talking cup of coffee or anything like that.

No.

Nothing close.

Okay.

Nothing close.

Too bad.

Yeah.

I'd be worried more about the alcohol than the caffeine.

Yeah.

Fair enough.

Before we get into the brewery,

let's talk about you.

You're a captain at the Ventura City Fire Department.

Still.

Not like was,

but like...

No.

No.

In fact,

I got off this morning like three hours ago.

Yeah.

You're insane.

So first of all,

thank you for your service.

Yeah.

You're welcome.

It's awesome.

And are you nuts?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

Full-time firefighter,

full-time brewer/owner.

Dad,

husband.

Your wife must love it.

Hates it.

Yeah.

I would say my hour...

My social life is zero at this point.

If you come into the brewery and say hi to me,

that's my social life at this point.

But I asked for it and I'm down to grind.

I like being busy.

The fire department is full of people just who love being busy.

And I'm definitely one of those folks at the department.

And then here at the brewery,

it's like,

"Yeah.

Let's get down.

Let's make it better.

Let's push the project forward.

Let's have a good time." Let's work a bunch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Tell us about the name.

So Red Angel Brewery,

and obviously it ties to the fire department,

but what does it mean to you?

Why the name?

Well,

first of all,

I don't know how many names we went through,

but I'll approach this question from two angles.

One was I was reading a book,

How to Open a Brewery.

It was by the gentleman that owns Elysian.

Oh,

okay.

I can't remember his name right now.

Yeah.

Well,

now it's Budweiser,

but...

Okay.

But that gentleman wrote a book,

and in the book,

it talks about how to pick a name.

Yeah.

What things should you be looking for in a name?

And how should people receive it,

and etc.

Well,

one of the things...

They said basically there was three ways to pick a name.

One was you name it after the area or the region.

Sure.

Okay.

So many people do that,

and that's the number one way to do it.

Right.

Easy.

Lots of things you get.

You get buy-in from the community or people from that area or who are relating to the area,

vacationing in the area.

So there's a lot of buy-in you can get with a name that's about a river or a mountain range or an area of just...

Street name.

Street name.

Yeah,

all those things.

So that was really cool.

That was a good option.

We definitely explored it.

And then people had...

There were some counterarguments to it.

"Hey,

if you take your beer outside of the area and people don't know the name of that mountain range,

it might not make sense,

or they might not have a way to tie into it." Yeah.

People in Arizona aren't going to connect to "Insert name here from small city." Correct.

Yeah.

Correct.

So it's good and bad,

but it's a way to name your place.

And then the other one was like name it after yourself.

So your family name or a name that represents you somehow.

That is part of our name.

Okay.

And the last one was just something that defines you.

So however you're defining your business or your person or the brewery,

just something that you want to define the name.

So we took all that into consideration.

And then I came up with about 100 stupid ideas that my wife properly just shot down.

And I would send her five to 10 things a day like,

"Hey,

how about this?" And I'm like,

"Oh,

this is going to be it.

This is the one." I would send it.

No,

it just crushed me for weeks.

One day I send her this thing,

Red Engine Brewing Company,

and she's like,

"That's it." And that was it.

The conversation was over.

We checked the box.

It was right on to design.

What would it look like?

Obviously,

it's red.

And then that's the next thing I'll go into.

One of the things that was important to me with my background in the fire department was bringing a little bit of that here.

Our tagline is product of tradition.

So the fire department has hundreds of years of tradition impeding progress.

There's all sorts of jokes about it.

But there is a lot of tradition that to this day happened 50 years ago or five years ago,

for that matter,

or whatever.

It's ongoing.

It's not going to change.

And beer brewing is really similar.

There's lots of traditional ways to make beer.

And it might not even be called said beer if it's not made like that,

if it's not with a decoction mash or certain hops from the region.

Do you want to call it that if it doesn't have those ingredients?

So there's a lot of similarities there.

But I always describe our brand as a fire engine.

So it's big.

You can't miss it.

It's capable.

The fire department does not call anybody else for help.

They're capable.

And it's trustworthy,

which you expect to see when you call them into your home at night.

You've never met any of these people.

They come in the door like they own the place and they handle business.

They make the problem go away as they should.

And that's the expectation.

So they're capable.

And then the last one is it's obviously red.

It's in the name.

So that's our brand.

And the name,

I don't know if I hopefully answered the question completely enough,

but that's how we got there.

And going back to your hundreds of names and you said your wife decided on one,

you guys started planning it out and everything.

People should know she's a graphic designer.

Yeah.

Elizabeth has a bachelor in digital graphic design.

Yeah.

And you can see it on the menus.

The digital menus are all designed by her and they look great.

Yeah.

Despite hours of fighting against her on some of these things.

I didn't even want to name the beers.

just call them what they are?

I just wanted it to be like blonde ale.

That's it.

Yeah.

No,

because there wasn't enough design involved in the decision.

So like,

yeah,

all aspects.

She's definitely had a huge influence on definitely the way the place looks.

Yeah.

And the way the word marks look and the names and everything.

Yeah.

She's a great job.

And my wife can attest to the same thing.

I've sent her hundreds of podcast names and even like episode titles.

Sometimes I'm trying to be cute and I'll send her all these options.

She's like,

"Nobody's gonna know the fuck you're talking about.

Just name it what it is." All right.

Fine.

You need that person though.

Like in your team.

Somebody needs the shit on your dreams.

Oh.

You need that dream shitter.

Big hot steamy wine.

Like just no...

Under no circumstances will you be doing that.

Zero.

Let me tell you how dumb you sound right now.

Yeah.

We get that a lot.

It's good.

It's good though.

You need it.

Good filter.

A few weeks ago,

you guys had your official grand opening.

How has the reception been from the community?

So man,

I have so many good things to say about our community.

People have been reaching out,

offering help,

services.

I'm not an expert on a lot of things.

So it's been helpful to have people come in the door unplanned

and take a piece of time or work and run with it and probably

do it better than I would have done it to begin with.

So the community has been awesome.

And we've gotten quite a bit of people from outside.

Santa Clarita,

Ventura,

Moorpark,

Thousand Oaks have been making a little drive over the hill.

Yeah.

A little bit of a commitment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

To Fillmore.

And so we're like 20 minutes away from pretty much anything else,

which isn't too far,

but sometimes it's definitely farther than five minutes.

So if your option is five or 20,

I appreciate the people who decided on the 20.

Yeah.

So we've had great reception from the community locally.

And there's no other brewery in Fillmore currently.

So we're...

Competition's low.

Competition's low,

but we're new.

So educating...

Some of the consumers coming in here have an expectation of...

I don't know.

It could be lots of other things,

but there's not a brewery here to compare to.

If you go to Ventura...

Everywhere.

Yeah.

There's 10 or 11.

Yeah.

A little mini San Diego.

So everyone knows what a brewery is in Ventura.

There's zero education going on there.

The consumer is very intelligent.

They all have their favorites and they know what to expect.

They know exactly what to expect.

Yeah.

So here we're surprising some people with the experience and with the offerings and then educating the rest of the group.

And is it true that you made your own tables?

It is.

Speaking of opening.

Yeah.

If you've been following us for the last couple of years,

thank you.

It's been a little bit of time.

It's been two years since we got the building.

I remember first seeing you on the 'Gram.

You had two posts.

I was like,

"Oh,

a new brewery coming in." Yeah.

"Check these guys out." And yeah,

two years later...

Here we are.

We finally got some beer out of this place.

But you did it.

We did it.

Huge.

Just getting over the finish line with this project was a huge accomplishment for me and for everybody involved.

Definitely one of the biggest mountains we've climbed with the most aggravating of problems.

Well,

you're the first one here.

You're basically setting all the laws around it.

Yeah.

The city had a lot of questions for us too.

Like,

"Well,

what are you going to do with the grain when you're done?" What's going to go down the drain?

That was a big one.

"What's going to go down the drain?" It's like,

"Nothing." Right.

No,

that wasn't what I said.

Water.

But yeah.

Obviously,

didn't want certain things interrupting the water.

Right.

The water department didn't want certain things affecting their operation.

Sure.

And so,

as long as that didn't happen and we were playing within the rules and pHs were good,

it was like,

"Okay.

Continue." One of the things you were saying before we started was,

like,

"Nale,

did you guys make your own tables and you're insane and you drove up to Paso and cut all the trees down?" But you were also...

If the construction crew was down a guy,

you were just calling friends and coming in and swinging hammers.

So let me touch on the tables really quick because a lot of guys put some time into that and would love the credit as they deserve.

So I was in a rabbit hole one night on these epoxy tables on YouTube and I was like,

"I think we could do this.

I think this would be something unique that people would enjoy drinking or

eating on or conversating on." And it might even be something that comes

up in their evening where they're talking about

how cool the table is or the environment.

It adds to the experience a little bit.

And so,

I had this great idea.

I didn't run by my wife.

And I was like,

"Hey,

we're going to go.

We're going to make our own tables.

We're going to cut the trees down.

We're going to take them to a sawmill and slab them out.

We're going to kill and dry them.

And then we're going to bring them back here and pour however many gallons of epoxy we poured into these things." It was like an endless amount.

- How hard could it be?

- That's what I thought.

It took us like a year to build these things.

- Holy shit.

- Yeah.

And then we welded the table frames too.

Some good friends and neighbors,

like,

welders,

and they helped us put the...

And I don't know if you noticed it,

but if you look at the side of the tables,

it looks like a pint glass.

And that was part of the design on each end.

- Oh,

yeah.

- Yeah.

It looks like a pint glass.

So,

it's like the devil's in the details a lot.

I'm proud of them.

They're definitely a unique piece.

You can't buy it.

- Right.

- They weigh like 500 pounds,

so you can't steal it either.

I mean,

it's not going anywhere.

Yeah.

The tables were a huge part,

our contribution to what you see when you come in here.

And then I'm so thankful that I have a group of people to pull from at the fire department that usually are handy folks.

- Sure.

- And they're able to...

As long as I had cold beer and lunch available,

these guys would come in here and hammer it.

- Yeah.

Worth it.

- I'm so thankful for them,

for all the hours that they've donated.

- Yeah.

Well,

you said you guys installed most of the brew equipment yourself.

- Oh,

man.

So,

if you don't...

- Like crazy people.

- So...

- It's not a small brew house,

everybody.

- Yeah.

So,

if you...

So,

you're here,

you can see it.

So,

all that came through the front door,

which is like,

you look at the front door right now and you're like,

there's zero possibility that any of that fits through the front door.

Well,

when it comes out of the truck,

it's all laying down.

- Sure.

- So,

that's definitely better,

like it laying down.

But then when you get in here,

you got to pick it up.

And not all of it is...

It's not light duty stuff.

- Right.

- Yeah.

It's big,

it's heavy.

You definitely don't want to drop it.

That's not going to go well.

But we have...

There's a specialty in the fire department called Urban Search and Rescue.

- Sure.

- It's like useful stacking and restacking is like kind of the joke acronym,

but it's like...

- Real life Tetris.

- Yeah.

It is really.

But a lot of it is like with really heavy pieces,

usually it's like de-layering a building that's fallen down.

- Oh,

okay.

- And so,

you're de-layering it and you're lifting up slabs of concrete or rebar or cars.

- Jeez.

- And you're looking for victims.

- Yeah.

- And you're using all sorts of technology,

search cameras and sonar devices and stuff like that to decide where or which pieces are going to get removed.

- Okay.

- Obviously,

those guys were my first call.

I'm part of that team as well.

And I was like,

"Okay,

I need guys who can take this stuff out,

operate cranes,

understand weight distribution,

loads,

and hopefully not drop any of this stuff that we've just spent quite a bit of coin on." Guys nailed it,

man.

They came in here and...

- I don't see any dents.

- Nope.

Yeah.

Nothing touched the ground.

It was really incredible.

But it all came through the front door and yeah,

made it in safe.

- That's pretty good.

And it looks great too.

Nice and shiny and dent-free.

- Dent-free,

most importantly.

- Yeah.

Well,

speaking of brew house,

let's check in another beer.

- All right.

So,

this next beer is most likely our American Light Lager.

It's called First In,

4.6%,

12 IBUs.

This is our crushable river beer,

light body.

I mean,

you could probably drink six of these.

- Challenge accepted.

- Yeah.

A cool thing about this beer is the guy,

the gentleman's name who we got the brew house through,

his name's Josh.

He's a brewer himself.

He has a little side hustle of buying and selling and designing breweries and brewery equipment.

- It's a fun side hustle.

- I know.

I know.

I know.

He's a great guy too.

So,

we're going over...

I'm kind of consulting with him on a light lager.

And so,

we come up with this recipe and we ended up using an enzyme to really dry the beer out all the way.

So,

we use like a 3470,

I think,

ale yeast or,

excuse me,

lager yeast in addition to this enzyme.

And this thing finished under one.

So,

it's 0.914,

something like that on the gravity,

which is extremely dry.

And even though we only put in enough hops for whatever it is,

like the 12 IBUs,

I think it accentuates a little bit of the hop or bitterness flavor a little bit more with that enzyme product.

But fun beer to make.

It was a little bit of an experiment with the enzyme,

but I'm happy with where it's come out.

- Yeah.

Absolute crusher.

I mean,

fucking boat beer to a T.

- Yeah.

It's a cooler,

a wake setter,

and like a hot day on the river and you're...

This is it.

- This is it.

Yeah.

I mean,

it's classic.

You do get a little...

I don't get so much accentuated hop flavor,

but more just like that bitterness on the...

- Yeah.

The bitterness up front.

- ...on the finish.

A little pineness,

I guess.

- Yeah.

- Whatever.

- 100%.

- But yeah.

But not to all you not hop lovers,

not hoppy at all.

You just get a hint of bitter on the end there.

Absolute crusher.

Very nice.

What was it?

4.2.

- 2.

- 4.2.

- Wait.

Hold on.

4.6.

I'm looking at the wrong data.

- Either way,

you could have like 30 of these and live.

- Yeah.

You're going to see another day for sure.

- Exactly.

- For sure.

- Talked about the building and the process a little bit.

How did you decide on this spot?

- Oh,

good question.

- And what was the spot?

It looks like it might've been like a grocery store.

- Yeah.

It was like a family dollar store,

like the chain family dollar.

- Okay.

- So I live in Fillmore.

- Okay.

- We were looking everywhere except for here.

And nothing against the town.

It was just kind of the availability of commercial property.

It was kind of like the main reason to look elsewhere.

There's just more options elsewhere.

And we were doing the typical thing where it was like three blocks off the main drag commercial,

tilt up,

tall.

We had like a wishlist of things.

It was like,

"No,

we want good bones.

We want it to be tall.

We want the electricity to be at least three phase.

We want gas." We had like a wishlist.

We were shopping mainly in Santa Clarita.

- Okay.

- A little bit like into like San Fernando Valley,

but the drive there was looking like,

"You can't do this every day.

It's not going to be as sustainable." But we were looking in Santa Clarita,

Ventura,

Thousand Oaks,

Newberry,

pretty much anywhere in Ventura County was like fair game for us.

And we had our wishlist.

And then Elizabeth was like,

"Why don't you check out that building?

It's right here.

It's like a mile away.

Why don't you go check that out?" - Yeah.

- Like,

"Ah,

I don't know." And then...

- It's a grocery store.

You're being stupid.

- Yeah.

And then it ended up being like...

So we changed our perspective on like to more,

"Why wouldn't it work here or at that location?" And so I looked up some data on the Brewers Association.

These numbers are across the country too.

So it's not specific to California,

which has its own like twist and flavor on pretty much anything.

sure.

Yeah.

- On average,

like 10,000 people can support a brewery.

- Okay.

- That's what the data says.

So then you look at somewhere like Ventura,

like what you've already talked about,

it's got 10 breweries,

maybe 11 brewers.

It's got 110,000 people.

Okay.

- They're kind of maxed.

- Well,

I mean,

it's...

So then there's places like Portland,

Maine that have...

I think Portland,

Maine has the highest concentration of breweries per person in the town.

And it's like a ridiculous...

It's a ridiculous number.

I don't remember it right now,

but it was so far above anything that I knew about.

I was like,

"Are you sure the numbers are right on that?" And it's like,

"That's what they are." So they're killing it there.

That's great.

Obviously,

people are drinking beer there.

People are traveling there and drinking beer.

It's working for them.

- Yeah.

- But then I looked at Fillmore.

I was like,

"Well,

there's 18,000 people here and no breweries?

Wait a minute.

I could do the math there.

We should be able to survive according to the Brewer's Association," which isn't everything,

but...

- Sure.

It's a good starting point.

- Yeah.

They know something about beer.

- Yeah.

- So I'll take their word for it.

And then really funny because the building had...

It was not for rent,

like Zillow or LoopNet.

There's some other commercial real estate apps and websites that will show you what's available,

you know?

And it wasn't listed.

And then I came to the building,

drove around it.

There's no information on the building.

- Weird.

- Right?

And it's empty.

And so I tell Elizabeth,

I'm like,

"Ah,

you know,

it's not...

I don't think it's for rent." - Not for sale.

- Yeah,

whatever.

I ended up asking a local real estate agent buddy.

I'm like,

"Do you know who owns this place?

Or how do we get contact info?

There's nothing on it." - Yeah.

- And he ends up calling some friends,

friends of friends,

and we end up getting the landlord contacted and call him.

Ends up being a great guy.

And we're like,

"Can we do this or what?" Answer's yes.

It's like...

- Sweet.

- Let's go.

- That's awesome.

- Yeah.

So that's a little bit of the story on how we ended up here.

- Yeah.

And it's on the main drag in town.

- Yes.

- And you're across the street from Taco Bell.

- Clutch.

- Prior to our kitchen,

clutch.

Yeah,

that was like,

you know,

visibility.

- Yeah.

- How are people gonna know about us?

Like,

how are they gonna find us?

It was like,

don't make it too hard.

- Right.

- And there were some locations it was like,

"Okay,

we're the third building back after the cul-de-sac.

You can't miss it." It's like,

you could miss it easily.

- 14 cans?

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Find the right little strip of warehouses,

third left,

make sure you scratch your chin.

- Yeah.

- And then speaking of the build out and all this stuff,

while you were planning and then building,

you started the Built and Brewed podcast.

- Yeah.

- Which is not officially over?

- It's not over.

- Okay,

good.

- It's on a little hiatus.

I listen to,

I'm sure like every brewer,

brewery owner,

or like people who work at like,

you know,

a lot of information that you can take in while you're driving or passively like in your headphones while you're on a run or something like that.

Podcasts,

like that's it,

right?

That's probably,

I think it's actually one of the largest growing media.

- It's huge.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- And the trajectory's up,

right?

- Yeah.

- So I was listening to a bunch of beer podcasts about how to do this,

because do not confuse me with like a professional.

I do not know a lot of things.

- It's like I can put out a fire.

- Yeah,

I can,

yeah,

that we can check the box professional,

but I,

you know,

I have like 20 years in that arena to know most of what's going on.

- Right.

- But here I don't.

And so podcasts were like a huge source.

You know,

I had bought a couple books on subjects I was like,

you know,

interested in that I wanted to reference.

- Sure.

- But podcasts were really like one of the main sources.

So I just felt like giving back to that the built and brewed,

like in the title,

it's like the first 10 episodes are all about building it.

- Like who are you gonna need to contact?

Your lawyer,

your architects,

your engineers,

you know,

all these key players.

- You even get into marketing.

- Marketing,

yeah.

- Yeah.

- Business planning.

- Mm-hmm.

- That was probably,

I don't know,

like eight to 12 months of my life.

- Sure.

- Have I ever been in a business plan for it?

No.

- Yeah.

- No.

I am proud of what we have though.

- Yeah,

oh,

absolutely.

- But it,

podcast,

man.

- Yeah.

- It was,

so anyways,

I'm just like put energy back into the system.

I sucked out like an incredible amount and I'm just trying to put some back in.

- Well,

and there's always something to be said about learning from someone who knows nothing about that space,

who's actually doing it at that point,

because like an expert could tell you,

"Oh,

it's so easy to do X,

Y,

and Z," but you're like,

"I don't know what the hell you just said.

Like that means nothing to me.

Might as well speak in another language." But you're able to break it down into sort of layman terms because you don't...

- I'm a layman.

- You're a layman at this point,

you know?

You haven't been doing it for years.

You haven't opened five breweries or whatever.

So I listened to,

I think,

all or most of the episodes and content-wise like really,

really interesting if you're gonna start a brewery.

I think what you were doing was great.

- It's a great place to start.

- Yeah.

- It's definitely not the end all,

be all,

but it's like some good reference points.

And then like anybody,

all of the guests are the people we used to build this project.

- Yeah.

And low-key,

you kind of get your name out there before you're open.

- A little bit.

Yeah.

It's a good way to like get to know our brand or whatever.

Like,

yeah,

absolutely.

- What would you say like the biggest one or two things that you were surprised that you learned during the whole process?

- Man,

how much time do we have on this show?

- Start the timer.

- Number one thing is definitely time.

Like manage,

if you can manage your time and then the project's time and just become efficient at that,

you're gonna be miles ahead.

But what happened to me was I didn't understand how long it would take to do things.

And no,

I just ended up at double the time finally wrapping up the item.

And it was like,

it was just incredible how long stuff took.

And it wasn't anybody's fault.

It wasn't like people were dragging their feet or whatever.

It was just that an experienced person would probably be able to tell you,

"Oh,

that project's gonna take six weeks." And so the key is really just layering stuff because you're not going from,

it's not linear.

You're not going from one,

like A to B to C to D.

You're doing like A through M at the same time.

And hopefully stuff lands.

- And you got A.1 and A.2 before you can even get to B and C.

- I mean,

we had these whiteboards.

We had these three whiteboards up when we were doing construction.

It was like contractor jobs,

Preston's jobs,

and whatever other- - It was like Ocean's 11.

- Yeah.

It was like the war,

we call them war boards in the fire department.

It's like,

"This is what you have to accomplish right now." And it's like,

there's not enough room on the board basically.

That's what it comes down to.

So time was definitely a huge lesson.

And then I would say the other lesson is really how you,

the dreamer,

the entrepreneur,

how you can manage yourself.

I don't want to get too into this,

but I had,

this last year was not the easiest year of my life.

For sure,

this was the most challenging year of my life.

And there were some points where you're like,

"You gotta lie to yourself.

You don't know- - Not a clue.

- When you're gonna be able to do it.

And you just say,

"I think I could do this." And you just lie to yourself.

- Basically you make it.

- Yeah.

And then one day,

something will click and the task gets done.

- Sure.

- But that's definitely the two things are managing yourself,

your mental space,

remaining positive,

remaining organized,

staying on task,

and then time.

And maybe they're like,

maybe this is a web we're weaving together here.

But if your life is not in order before you take on this project,

I don't want to burst the bubble,

but your life is not gonna be in order.

- It's not gonna be easy.

- And at the end of this thing,

you're gonna be a shit show.

- And we talked to your wife,

Elizabeth,

at Industry Night,

and we were talking about the TVs and how you did not want the TVs.

- Yeah.

Well,

I didn't want half of this shit,

but yeah.

- And she's like,

"You have to have two." Because they're not TVs for games.

They're the menu.

And digital menus and stuff,

and we were telling her how good they looked.

But knowing what you know now,

you're open,

you're selling beer,

you're selling pizza,

is there one thing you would have done differently?

- With the whole project?

- Yeah.

Different layout,

different tables.

I wouldn't have gone up and built my own stupid tables and killed myself.

- I probably would have let that one go.

But no.

We had a good time doing it.

- Yeah.

Is there one thing you're like,

"Shit,

I wish I would have X.

Now I know what I know." - Well,

I definitely wish I would have managed time better.

- Okay.

- You know?

- Fair.

- We didn't do the best job there.

Here we go.

We have a kitchen where...

I don't know what the menu is going to be in two,

three,

10 years.

I don't know what it's going to be.

- Sure.

- And we might be doing some real fucking hipster shit out of there.

We might be.

I don't know if the kitchen is going to get there,

if we're going to have folks in there that have that level of talent or expertise,

or even if the equipment's going to exist.

- Yeah.

- Like,

I don't know.

I don't know.

But if you don't know anything about a kitchen,

don't do it.

- (laughs) - Because I about killed myself just trying to figure out the kitchen.

The workflow,

I don't know how many times the equipment's been rearranged in there.

We've added an outlet because I thought it would be better over...

We need the mixer over here.

- Sure.

- And then we get the outlet over here,

and then it's like,

"Who put the mixer over here?" - (laughs) - It's like,

"You can't...

That doesn't make any sense." It's like,

man." - Just have a kitchen riddled with outlets now.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

All kinds now.

I mean,

now it's like...

Actually,

now it's kind of a benefit.

- Because you're changing your mind like 30 times.

- Somebody needs to charge their phone,

hit the kitchen.

- Boom.

I mean,

we got outlets for outlets.

- (laughs) - But the thing I would do different for anybody taking on a kitchen is you need a kitchen person.

You need a chef.

And you need somebody with the education,

the background,

the food costs.

- Yeah.

- The...

- Menu design.

- Yeah.

The whole thing,

man.

I don't even know what I'm talking about right now.

- But you need that person.

And that person,

that air quotes that person...

- Right.

- That's a lot of the whole project.

Whatever it is that you're trying to...

Whatever puzzle you're trying to figure out,

you need that person.

- Yeah.

- You need their expertise.

You need their...

- Everything.

- Their foresight.

Yeah.

You need to know their mistakes.

- Yeah.

- Everything.

- Yeah.

It's very true.

- So that was definitely something I would bring in our scenario.

Like a kitchen expert earlier,

prior to all the outlets.

Just at the very beginning.

- Right.

(laughs) - At the...

Have them talk to the architect.

- Yeah.

You'd have half the outlets.

- Half.

- At best.

- Yeah.

- Before we move on,

let's crack open another one here.

- All right.

All right.

All right.

- Where do you think we should go?

- Yeah.

Get after this one.

So this is a smoke show.

This is our stout.

Okay.

So this is 4.2%,

dry Irish stout,

23 IBUs.

So every time I talk to people about stouts,

I get cringy vibes.

Everyone's like,

"Ugh,

stout." It's thick.

- Right.

- It's heavy.

- Marble oil.

- Yeah.

Those are the two descriptors I hear most often.

And it was like,

"Okay.

Well,

clearly people do not like thick and they don't like heavy." - Right.

- And what they mean by heavy is it doesn't weigh a million pounds.

It's just the mouth feel.

Or the ABV is high.

- Right.

Barrel aged.

- Yeah.

Especially around here.

We've grown up with Firestone.

- Yeah.

- And we think of a Firestone stout,

you're thinking barrel aged and sticky.

- You get a hammer.

Yeah.

I mean,

it's not like it's not good.

It's good.

- Sure.

But you just don't want it on a normal everyday outing.

- Or I would say,

yeah,

like the everyday consumer.

They're not looking for that.

They're looking for something,

I think,

that's just like approachable.

- Especially when you're driving.

- Yeah.

- Let's consider things like that,

please.

Yeah.

Like,

yeah,

you don't...

14%.

I mean,

if Uber's not available or whatever,

don't even bother with that,

man.

That's not your jam right now.

You're not going to be able to enjoy it all,

like a glass of it,

or maybe if you really like it too,

it's not going to work.

So for us,

we said,

"Hey,

let's do a light-bodied,

low ABV stout.

And let's get some non-stout drinkers to convert and try it out." And we achieved that.

We didn't use high protein malts.

We didn't use like wheat or oats or things that would like thicken up the viscosity of it.

And we kept the ABV down and we're happy with it.

I think the future of this beer could potentially be nitro or some variant of it.

But right now,

we're stoked with where it's at.

And I commonly see people get it in a flight and then order a pint because that was the beer that...

- That's like the ultimate compliment.

Yes.

Yeah.

And it's probably next to the Java bump,

it's probably the beer that surprised them the most as far as what they anticipated it being and then what they experienced.

- Yeah.

It's very easy to drink.

I get a lot of roasty,

a little bit of coffee,

a little bit of chocolate on the nose,

and the flavor not far behind.

And like you said,

very thin,

not a protein shake by any stretch.

4.2,

easy drinking.

I appreciate the easy drinking beers.

There's a brewery that will go unmentioned that has since closed down in our area that we didn't go to because all their beers were seven plus.

And it's like,

"Hey man,

I want to go have a couple or three and then drive home." If I go have a couple or three of your seven and a half plus percent beers all day,

that's not happening.

- No.

- So I can appreciate a bunch of sessionable beers.

- Yeah.

And a long time ago,

we were like,

"Hey..." Because people would ask like,

"Oh,

what kind of beers are you going to..." Like at festivals.

- Yeah.

- "What kind of beers are you going to make?" It's like,

I would always...

- Hazies.

- Half jokingly,

I'd be like,

"I want to make beers that people drink." - Right.

- And that wasn't supposed to be a burn or a diss on the person.

Obviously,

we want to make beer that people drink,

but I meant like drink more than one.

- Yeah,

you're in the business of selling beer.

- Thank you.

Yeah.

Please drink more than one.

But yeah,

if you can't,

well then,

mission fail.

- And at 4.2,

it's not lacking anything.

It's not like,

"Oh,

I wish I had a little more whatever." It's not lacking anything.

- I mean,

up close or across the table,

this looks like a stout.

- Exactly.

- I mean,

after you pour it,

it's got like,

you know,

kind of a slightly brown head on it.

- Yeah.

A little bit of lacing leftover.

- And it's like,

you know,

black or close to opaque black,

you know?

And as it looks,

it's like,

"What is that?

That's a stout." It looks just like it.

- What it should be.

Yeah.

- Just like it.

- All right.

Let's go back.

Let's go way back.

History for you as a drinker,

Were you like PBR guy in college or high school or...

- Uh-huh.

- Here's what I'll say.

I actually did not have a drink till I was 21.

- Okay.

- But after that,

I mean...

- That's on the record.

- Yeah.

On the record.

I was so worried about getting hired on the fire department.

Like,

I couldn't mess it up for a beer at that point.

It wasn't worth it.

There was going to be plenty of beer drinking time after that.

And then look at me now as like,

you know,

a thousand gallons of Mexican lager,

like a hundred feet away from us.

Like,

Jesus.

I think most people in this space are like a story most people can relate to.

I was having a great time with beer.

Mixed drinks were just like too much for me.

- Yeah.

Too sweet.

- Like Long Island,

it was like,

"Oof,

I'm on my back.

What happened?" - Next morning's never good.

- Yeah.

And wine was cool.

I appreciate wine.

And we have wine here at the brewery.

- How smart.

- Which was like a joint,

just like a lot of people wanted to have wine here.

So,

and since we had the kitchen,

like in your licensing,

now you can have wine.

We have a great Somali,

his name's Bryce.

He lives in town.

Highly educated,

knowledgeable guy about wine.

So,

the joke that we have is like,

he's going to turn this place into a wine bar.

That's like his challenge.

Like challenge accepted.

Like if you can do that,

great.

- Yeah.

Like whatever sells.

- Yeah.

And so,

he's all about the wine.

He comes in,

does staff orientation,

education.

It's great.

that's awesome.

- We love the guy.

He's awesome.

But ultimately,

I started home brewing probably,

oh,

so funny story.

My brother and I used to do amateur road racing,

like on racetracks with motorcycles,

like you're dragging your knee on the ground.

That kind of stuff.

And so,

I did that for a while,

like maybe like five years.

And I ended up getting into connecting up with a school and flying around the country and riding motorcycles at racetracks and teaching,

ended up instructing people.

What a fun time.

- I bet.

- Oh,

man.

It was like the closest to professional motorcycle racer I could get.

And so,

that was great.

Well,

I'm in Virginia at Virginia International Raceway,

if anybody's ever been there.

And it's a bitching track.

And Elizabeth called me.

She's like,

"Hey,

am I water broke?" I'm like,

"I thought we talked about this." Like while I'm gone,

like,

"Please,

don't have this baby." So,

I fly,

you know,

end up getting home.

I end up making it.

Olivia's born in 2013.

- Okay.

- And I talked to my brother who already had a kid at the time.

And I go,

"Hey,

we can't go to the racetrack all weekend and do this anymore." Like,

what can we do at home that's,

you know,

just as fun,

but not taking up as much time,

and it's not taking us out of the house.

We end up coming up with homebrewing and then,

you know,

2013-ish.

- Yeah.

Juice is expensive too.

- Yeah.

Thank you.

I mean,

like,

what are we doing here?

We got a $5,000 like beer kit in the garage.

So,

that's kind of where it went after was,

"Hey,

we're gonna make some beer at home." And so,

that's where it started for us was kind of like homebrewing.

You know,

that obviously got out of control like shortly thereafter.

- Clearly.

- Yeah.

Here we are.

- Was there a specific beer that you're like,

"Fuck,

this is so good.

I hope I can make something like this." - So,

I think the first beer that hit that wasn't like completely infected...

- Making sours from the start?

- Yeah.

Was a Black IPA.

- Oh,

fuck yeah.

- We were like,

"Dude,

what is this right now?" Like,

I like...

- So underrated.

- You can't buy it.

- No.

- Like,

I mean,

you're not going to Vons or Rouse or Albertsons.

And you're like,

yeah.

There's a Black IPA on the shelf." Like,

you're getting that from a brewery for sure.

And that was one of the first beers that hit.

And we're like,

"Dude,

hey,

all right.

We could drink all this,

Keg." - Yeah.

Guess what?

Doesn't suck.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

That's awesome.

Oh,

Black IPAs are so good.

And then between homebrewing and then now,

did you go get any training?

Did you...

- Yeah.

- On the job?

- So,

I went to the American Brewers Guild in Vermont.

- Okay.

- They have a brewing science and engineering program.

And it was like a six-month online thing.

Then you do a 10-day stint where you go out there and you do a hands-on.

They have a classroom portion,

but that wasn't going to be feasible from California.

- Sure.

- And with my job,

I wasn't going to be able to go out there for four months and just do four days a week at the brewery.

I wasn't going to work.

So,

we did the online program and went out there and met probably five or six guys I talked to on a weekly basis still that are in the beer business,

own breweries,

are brewers,

whatever.

So,

that program...

Thank God for that program,

by the way.

Steve is the guy who runs the American Brewers Guild.

And that is like for us,

if I didn't have that,

this thing,

for sure,

we would have made some really bad decisions earlier on and it wouldn't have made it.

We wouldn't have crossed the finish line.

But they also had a business planning thing for people who are interested in owning breweries.

- Oh.

- And so,

they hooked us up with a small brewery...

Excuse me,

small business association,

put us in contact.

Like,

"Hey,

if you don't know how to write a business plan,

contact these people.

Their job is to help you write business plans." - Yeah.

- And that worked.

We got some guidance and I did a podcast actually with our guy,

Paul,

here locally at College of the Canyons.

We didn't know the answers to and kind of thought he was being a jerk to us,

but he wasn't.

He was like,

"No,

no,

no,

no.

You really need to look into this." - Stuff you gotta figure out.

- Yeah.

You should really put some time into this.

- Right.

- And he was right.

- Yeah.

He's a jerk,

but he's a right jerk.

- Yeah.

And he was at the grand opening like,

"Dude,

I think...

Way to go,

man.

You answered the hard questions and you figured it out.

You made it to the end and good job." - Is this the first commercial brew system you've brewed on?

- No.

I brewed on five and 10 barrel systems and I got to brew at a couple 20,

15 or 20 barrel systems with help.

- Sure.

- And yeah,

but this is the first...

I wasn't asking for help while I was brewing.

This is the first one for sure.

- And how much can you put out on the system?

- Oh,

annually.

So each...

So we have 30 barrel fermenters.

- Okay.

- So I think we did like...

If you did ales all year and you turned them,

we do 750 barrels per fermenter.

- Okay.

- Okay.

So that's...

Oh boy.

We've had a couple of drinks.

750 times four.

- Times how many?

Five?

Oh,

four.

- Well,

at least times two.

That's not...

Or four...

15.

- I'll cut this part out.

It's 29,

right?

- It's around 3,000 barrels.

15.

Yeah.

3,000 annually.

And then you throw the loggers in there.

They interrupt the flow.

But basically,

if we turned them all the time,

we'd be around like 3,000 barrels annually.

- Okay.

And it looks like you have a little bit of room if you ever needed to expand.

- I think we could put in maybe two...

- One or two more.

Yeah.

- Two to three more.

- Okay.

- Yeah.

And we have the height.

- Yeah.

And then some.

- So we could do a 60 barrel in here.

- Yeah.

- And still be fine.

- Yeah.

Pretty tall grocery store ceiling.

- Mm-hmm.

- Yeah.

Might I say,

good job putting soundproofing in the ceiling.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

That's the worst.

When it sounds like a grocery store.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

Echoing.

All right.

What is your focus?

Speaking of all this beer making,

what's your focus when it comes to beer making?

I mean,

obviously,

stuff people are going to drink,

so it sells.

But leaning towards classics,

is it what's cool and hip and cold IPA bullshit?

- I'm new to the beer space,

obviously.

- Yeah.

- The things that I personally am focusing on right now are just being able to consistently do the same thing.

I would say our Pro B,

the Blond Ale,

that beer I've made probably five or six times,

which isn't a lot.

But I would say throughout those five or six times,

the variance has been pretty narrow.

And we've been able to make that beer taste the same most of the time.

- Yeah.

- I mean,

the place where it's kind of changed a little bit was when I brewed it on our system,

which was like five barrels larger than the 10 barrel that I was making it on.

And the efficiency level was different.

- Sure.

- So,

we're at like 80,

90,

90% efficiency.

- Wow.

- Which is pretty good for a commercial brew house.

That changed the flavor.

All of a sudden,

there was a little bit more alcohol in there with the same amount of grains.

- Yeah.

- So,

I was like,

"Wait a minute.

What happened?" - Yeah.

- So,

consistency is kind of like my personal main focus.

And then just drinkability/approachability.

- Yeah.

- Being in like a new area and introducing ourselves to the community.

A lot of the people that come in here are between like 30 and 70.

- A little bit of a range.

- Yeah.

It's really remarkable how many potential grandmas and grandpas are in here like having beers.

They're not trying to get blown away by an 18% pastry stout or whatever.

They're having a good time with whoever they're with and they're having one,

maybe two beers.

So,

I think approachability,

drinkability.

And if this was like a target or like a range,

we're just trying to hit it in the middle.

Does the West Coast IPA taste like traditional classic West Coast IPA?

Yes or no?

- Right.

we're just trying to get the yeses on most of them.

- Before you get too crazy.

- Yeah.

So,

where we want to get like a little outside the lines and like,

you know,

is with collaborations.

- Yeah.

- So,

we're going to do a sour,

like an imperial sour,

heavily fruited,

like 9%er.

- I'm in.

- Yep.

So,

that's kind of where I think,

you know,

I'm going to have the opportunity to like learn how to make a kettle sour with all this fruit in it and what is that going to do to this equipment.

It's probably going to be a disaster.

- How many lines am I going to have to change?

- Yeah.

So,

that kind of is going to be like the,

where we get,

where we color outside the lines a little bit and like try some different stuff.

It's probably going to be in that collaborative setting.

- Smart.

- Where I have like,

you know,

the handler,

you know.

- Yeah.

- Somebody like reel me in a little bit.

Like,

no,

actually you don't want to do that.

- Right.

That's smart.

- Is there a hop that you're currently crushing on?

- No,

dude.

My favorite hop is Idaho 7.

- That's a good one.

- That's my,

that's in our hazy.

- You're using so many things.

- You can't,

yeah,

you can't.

I just heard somebody say last night on YouTube that they were using 5% of their hop ingredients was Idaho 7 in like a pilsner.

- Oh.

- And they were saying like,

it's such a small amount.

It doesn't really like,

you don't drink it and you're like,

oh,

this is Idaho 7.

It brightens up the existing hops that are in there just a little bit.

And I was like,

wow,

that's really,

okay.

Another like take on,

you know,

a Czech pilsner or whatever.

- Right.

- So.

- Add a little something to it.

Do you have any dream collaborations you're hoping to?

- Dream collaborate.

I'm actually just surprised anytime I like float it out to anybody and they're like,

we'd be interested in that.

I'm like,

really?

You know,

like,

so I don't really have any dream collaborations,

but a dream for a collaboration would be anything that made it into like regular production or even like distribution,

you know,

that we could like continue to remake as our own or whatever,

as long as like the people were good with it.

Anything that would become like a mainstay,

like that we just had such a response on,

like,

oh man,

you cannot,

we do not run out of this,

please.

- We're not coming back if we don't make more.

- Yeah.

That would be a dream for a collaboration.

- Is there a next step for Red Engine now that you're open?

Like,

what are you?

- So year one is like,

let's just make it to the end of year one.

- Sure.

- The future for us,

we want to kind of do like a hub and spoke model,

like where we like,

maybe have,

we have two or three,

you know,

in a perfect world,

two or three tap rooms and we can service them here from like kind of the,

you know,

the main or the only location that has a brewery and kind of like dish to ourselves.

You know,

like we defined success earlier as we had three goals that we wanted to,

we wanted to be in control of our own schedule,

want to get paid what we were worth.

That's not a number.

That's like what the people essentially tell you,

like how much of it they're going to buy and how much of it you can sell.

And then eventually how much you can pay yourself.

So whatever that number is,

and hopefully that number like,

you know,

moves up like along the way.

And then we just wanted to reduce exposure to like all sorts of anything.

But mainly I think that line means like just be in control of your future.

So the dream is like those things.

And then being able to go into like a convenience store or a grocery store and see your stuff on a shelf.

Like that's the definition of success for us.

We can achieve those three things and see the product on the shelf or be in like grocery store line.

Somebody's got a four pack in front of you and be like,

man,

dude,

I'm like,

I'm gonna buy that four pack for that guy.

Like what?

Thank you.

Is that when you just start dropping those little like,