Growing up and as a teenager in North Carolina, there became a point in my life where it was necessary for me to leave home.

That is not an easy situation for a 15 year old to be in.

But the blessing in my life is that there were so many people who reached out to help me.

They made it possible for me to stay in school and to ultimately get a full ride.

There's not enough money, attention, time, anything in the world to pay that back.

So for me as a leader, to help our teammates grow, to help our industries grow, to me, those are the things that paid forward, all the things that I, I have been humbly blessed in life to receive.

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On this podcast, the world's most innovative senior leaders share their top success strategies to motivate your direct reports, cultivate your top leaders and accelerate your career.

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Welcome back to Lead the Team.

Today you're going to hear the incredible story of Lynn Mason, who is CEO of EVRMA North America, one of the top reproductive medicine groups in the nation, as she shares her incredible journey from being emancipated as a teen to securing a full ride scholarship to Washington University and ultimately attending Stanford Business School as one of just six African American women in her class.

You're going to discover how these experiences ultimately fueled her dedication to paying it forward and pulling others up along the way.

And Lynn's story, as you're going to hear, is a true testament to the power of resilience, determination and the unwavering support of those who believed in her.

Despite facing immense challenges, she never gave up on her dreams and now she's leading an innovative company that's changing lives and shaping the future of reproductive medicine.

You're going to get her insights on leadership, mentorship and diversity that will inspire you to reach for your full potential, no matter your background.

Check it out.

Ben, it's such a pleasure to be here.

Thank you for having me, man.

Y'all, you.

You've got to hear her story.

Really inspiring to hear about this and I can't wait to dive into your story here.

So from being emancipated as a teen, securing a full Rice scholarship to Washington University and attending Stanford Business School, where you're one of just six black women in your class, I understand that you've developed a dedication to paying it forward and pulling others up, as you yourself were pulled up.

What's the story there?

Yeah, so as I was growing up and as a teenager in North Carolina, there became a point in my life where it was necessary for me to leave home.

And you know, that is not an easy situation for a 15 year old to be in.

But the blessing in my life and when I think about leadership, being of service and paying it forward, is that there were so many people to no benefit to themselves who reached out to help me.

My best friend's family ultimately took me in.

They made it possible for me to stay in school, made it possible for me to stay an exceptional student and to ultimately get a full ride to Washu for something like that.

I can never pay that back there.

There's not enough money, attention, time, anything in the world to pay that back.

So for me as a leader and a leader in North America, we've got the unique opportunity, leading businesses to pay it forward, to help our teammates grow, to help our industries grow, to expand health care and access.

To me, those are the things that pay forward, all the things that I have been humbly blessed and like to receive.

So for those listeners who are like, well, what's an emancipated minor?

What.

What was it at the time and.

What was at the time?

My, My mother gave up custody of her children and my father was not in a position to care for us.

So as a result, I needed to, on my own, kind of figure out what, what life looked like as, as did my sister.

And fortunately, in terms of finding a place to live and then to grow up and thrive, as I stated, my.

My best friend's family, and specifically her aunt, found a place for me in, in her home.

And it was through her that I also learned so many values around grace.

And also that a circumstance in a moment is not a circumstance for the rest of your life.

These are things that can happen and we have one of two choices.

We can learn, we can grow, we can get through it, or we can allow it to consume our lives.

And I made the decision that this was not going to stop the Dreams that I had for my life.

At the time, I thought I was going to be a psychiatrist and that's what I thought I was going to go to Washington to ultimately do.

But I am so happy that I found a different way to be in health care.

What incredible start to life.

And you had to grow up quickly and did you decide like, hey, I'm going to go to college one day, like, like before you became emancipated, or is this something that you came to later in school?

So my, my father was very strict with.

With us around.

We were to be straight A students and be very focused in school and we were going to go to college.

I didn't know what that looked like for me when, when I left home, however, that was always on my mind that I would go to college.

I knew that I needed a full ride likely to make that happen.

And I'm in forever gratitude to Washu and St Louis who made a full ride possible for me, who also looked out for me while I was at school.

There are key people in the university who knew my situation and they made it possible for me to study abroad in Hong Kong.

They made it possible when I didn't go home for holidays, for me to have a place to.

To be.

I again always think about myself in service and paying it forward because again, that was no benefit to that university.

That was benefit to me that I can never pay them back for.

Did you learn things to.

What strikes me is you've maybe at a young age you learn to cultivate positive relationships with people.

I mean, like you're telling the story as in people were helping you and supporting you, which sounds like yes, but also maybe you cultivated that because a lot of people go along in life.

Maybe they don't cultivate their networks.

They don't.

They.

They don't cultivate that early on, they don't come to that realization later in life.

How important that is.

I have always found human beings and people's life stories so very interesting, even as a youth.

So I had decided when I was less than 10 years old, I was probably 7 or 8 years old when I learned what a psychiatrist was.

And I was like, oh my God, I'm going to sit and talk to people all day and learn about their lives and then I'm going to help them with that.

And I think there is something to be said about human beings being genuinely interested in other human beings.

I tell my team, I'm interested in you as a human being first.

And then a teammate who works with Me.

Second, I do think there's something to be said about, one, just genuinely wanting to have relationships with people.

And two, there was a discipline that was cultivated inside of me at a young age, and I do believe people saw that and wanted to help me foster it.

You know, I.

As a teenager, I was not the person who was out at parties.

I was not any.

You know, maybe I regretted that later in life.

My one regret is I didn't party enough.

Maybe I made up for it in business school, you know, as you're older, because, you know, I.

I studied, I was in my books.

I.

I think there are people who saw a drive in me and wanted to be a part of that, and I'm.

I'm grateful for it.

So.

So I hear two things in that perhaps early on.

Number one, I think the world gets behind people that are on a mission.

And you described it as discipline, but, like, you were very focused.

And people.

When people see that, they're like, yeah, it's.

Sometimes it's hard for the world to get behind someone that's not focused.

And we don't.

Like, what are you supporting them to do?

Like, what is the mission?

But when it's clear, perhaps people could get behind that.

And also this being listening and being interested in people, which, by the way, would make you a really strong podcast host.

But.

But that.

It sounds like empathy, and it sounds.

People are drawn to people who listen deeply.

And perhaps that was maybe a skill early on that cultivated that.

I, you know, perhaps so, Ben, and perhaps you're.

You're making me blush a little bit, I have to.

I have to say, because I look at all these different pieces of life, and I typically put them into chapters, right?

It's.

It's almost looking at life like a novel and saying, okay, in this chapter, what happened?

What did I do?

What did I learn?

And how's the next chapter going to be better?

And, you know, when.

When I think about those moments of my life, they're very distinct chapters.

But it also always realized this is what we do with it.

And you talk about mission and mission moments.

It's, you know, even within our organization, every single person has a mission moment every single day.

And we think about that with our doctors.

Right?

Doctors clearly have wonderful mission moments constantly.

If they're helping patients, I dare say the financial coordinator who helped a patient figure out if they've got coverage for IVF or if they can get them financing somewhere else, just had a mission moment to make someone's dream come true.

And if we all as leaders and as teammates can get behind each other.

You've given me an here, I'm going to steal it for work.

Can get behind each other.

And each of our missions, whether you're in the accounting department or a nurse, no matter where in the organization, there's missions each day.

And if we all can put a tailwind behind everybody's mission, the sky's the limit for the organization and for making dreams come true.

Yeah, well, that's, that's the real secret sauce for getting alignment throughout multiple areas.

You guys have got a different, a lot of locations in North America, around the world.

And it's so important, I think, in the grind of work that it can become that people remember the higher reason to why you're doing it the first place.

Even, even, you know, all throughout the organization now bringing it back around your story.

So you go to Washu and it sounds like when you go to Hong Kong, what was that international experience like for you coming from, coming from the Carolinas to the Midwest and now over.

Yeah, it was a big experience.

There was definitely a shock, if you will, to my system, but that's what I seek out.

And I believe that and I'm stealing this quote, but that life is lived 15% or greater outside of the comfort zone.

That's where the lessons are learned.

And I knew, and I don't know how I knew this, but I always felt if I'm going to grow, if I'm going to make something happen, I need to get out of my bubble.

But every phase that I enter has the opportunity to become a bubble, unless I break it, move out of that as well.

Washu had an amazing exchange program.

And interestingly enough, I'd studied Keith Swahili and planned on studying abroad in either Kenya or Tanzania.

And there was an interest meeting for studying for the students who wanted to study abroad.

And the dean of I was in the business school, an accounting and finance double major.

And the dean of the business school for undergrad said, all right, we have a new relationship.

Hong Kong University of Science and Technology don't have to have language skills because it's an English speaking university.

And we need at least four or five volunteers to give up where you're going and to go here instead.

Then I don't know why.

I wish I had something exceptional I could tell you around how thoughtful I am and why I've made this decision.

It just felt like the right thing to do.

And I said, you know what, I'll go, I'll go to Hong Kong and I still have.

There were 10 students from all over the US and Europe who are in this exchange program.

And many of them are still friends to this day.

I just talked to one of them a couple of weeks ago.

We're comparing our thoughts on the stock market and along the way from things we were doing while we were studying around in Hong Kong.

But it was an amazing experience.

And again for me, you know, coming from North Carolina, going to St.

Louis and then my first international flight, my first flight ever was going to college.

And then I get my Internet.

First international flight is going to study abroad.

I had an amazing roommate who was from India.

I just made amazing friends.

But it also opened up for me the fact that I choose to be and desire to be a citizen of the world and not just whatever bubble I'm in.

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There's a certain boldness in your career you can already hear emerging.

You're willing to go to Washu, you're willing to make a big shift.

I mean, you'd study going to Africa, you'd plan on it, right?

You spoke the language.

And now let's go something totally different.

Let's go further away.

Let's go to Hong Kong.

So, you know, what a journey.

And then, then, then on to Stanford, which is just to be in there is.

Is a pretty great achievement.

But it sounds like you had a lot of success when you went there.

What was it like?

What was your experience like?

And what were maybe.

What was maybe a takeaway or two from that.

Yeah.

So I went to Stanford after six years on Wall street, not really knowing if I wanted to go.

You went to work first.

You went from Washington to Wall Street?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, missed.

I missed a step.

There was.

That was.

That must have been insane.

That was.

You know, I love to tell people how I ended up on Wall street because it, it is once again one of those.

Be willing to say yes.

Because, Ben, I didn't know what Wall street actually meant.

So I, I'm just going to put that out there.

I was, like I said, I was studying accounting and finance fully planning to Be a cpa.

I'd interned at Ernst and Young.

Things were going great at school.

And Morgan Stanley came and presented.

They had a special invitation and they presented about this opportunity to intern at Morgan Stanley between junior and senior year.

And if you do really well, and it was called the Richard B.

Fisher Scholar Program, and if you do really well, you might have an opportunity to get a job at Morgan Stanley after graduation.

Embarrassingly, to all the kids out there, take a chance.

Embarrassingly, I had never been to New York before.

And if you made it to the interview, for those who made it to the interview process, it was a trip to New York to interview on site at Morgan Stanley in Times Square.

So I studied, studied, studied.

What the heck is this Morgan Stanley place?

And these, this investment banking thing.

I just wanted a free trip to New York.

I never thought I'd actually get the internship.

And then I never thought I'd actually get the job.

But sometimes it is the willingness to just say yes and to go for it.

And again, that those years on the street were really formative for me because I started to fall in love with the business of.

And when I say the business of, I mean the business leading and caring for people so that they then can operate at the highest of their ability and beyond what they think that they can do.

I would sit in rooms and was fortunate to have leaders who brought me into rooms that other analysts and associates weren't brought into.

To see the dynamics between organizations, to look inside the guts of big organizations like UPS and to say, wow, this is how leadership is done.

This is how a company that was started 100 years ago with a wagon turns into a behemoth, moving millions of parcels around the globe every single day with people who are loyally dedicated to what they do, no matter what it is inside of the organization.

And that's what I was taking away.

And my decision to leave the street after six years is because I found myself at the end of a deal.

You really love Wall Street.

You gotta love doing deals.

At the end of the deal, I found myself missing the company, missing the strategies that we talked about.

We want to do this IPO because we want to do these big things with the money.

I was like, well, I want to be a part of the big things that you're doing with the money.

You know, I'm not getting excited about the deal closing.

I'm getting excited about the strategy and what you're going to do.

And I had to be very honest with myself.

I can stay and I'll soon be up for vice president.

And frankly if I make vice president, I'll probably never read the street or I can follow my heart which says Lynn, you want to be inside of an organization and you want to help people and lead people and do something from that, that vantage point.

I didn't know how to hop frankly from A to B.

So I said I better go to business school and get some help with this.

Well, yeah, a couple of things that come up to me in your story is that you seem to be very plan driven but then you're also not fixed on that plan.

A lot of leaders I think, you know, they jump in, they like being a reactive day.

They don't really have a plan, they just react and they kind of react with their team or they have a plan and they just stick to it no matter what.

Even though the external environment, opportunities may change.

And you know, you, you want to go to New York, you thought you were going to be an accountant.

You plan for an accountant.

You had an opportunity, you seized it.

And it sounds like perhaps you had envisioned yourself as sort of a long timer Morgan Stanley executive.

And then after doing it a while you thought maybe there could be another opportunity and wow, hello Stanford.

So let's go back to, let's go to California, let's get out of and what was up.

I, I really fell in love with the mission of, of Stanford and I'm someone if a mission and a vision's on the wall, I'm going to read it, I'm going to attach myself to it.

It means I still remember Morgan Stanley's first class business in a first class way.

And that's how I felt about my day inside and out.

Even as a peon analyst am I doing first class business in a first class way?

I get to Stanford, change lives, change organizations, change the world.

And there's something in that that said, okay, I really focus myself on changing me as an individual and as a leader.

I can then take that and change lives within organizations that will then change that organization and in our society.

And I don't apologize for for profit medicine, I don't apologize for capitalism.

Change happens a lot through organizations.

And I was like this, this is what I can do.

This is what I'm called to do.

And I need Stanford's help with the how.

And I love that I chose to, to go to, to Stanford because there is a beauty of the GSB that is wholly focused not just on the intellectual learning and pursuits of the students, but who each student is as a human being.

And shining a light on that and challenging us to ask, what's that going to translate into?

As a leader of an organization, will I make someone's day better for having interacted with me?

Or worse?

And I had so much of the nuts and bolts, if you will, in my background, meaning I was an accounting and finance double major in undergrad, so I had all those classes.

Then I'd worked on the street for six years, so I had all the business quant you can imagine, which allowed me, when I got to business school, to focus on leadership and to really focus on who do I want to be as a leader.

What are these theories around leadership?

How do I put them into practice as well as filling in other holes?

And what I felt like were holes regarding marketing and sales, holes regarding operations management.

I had the opportunity to do that.

And some of the best, you know, just leadership leader.

Excuse me, some of the best leadership professors within the, you know, the whole academia space are, are at the gsb.

They're at Stanford writing books like Pax the Power and, you know, I had the chance to study underneath them.

And what I developed while I was at Stanford was my own personal motto, which I've had since then, which is to help people believe, to help people achieve far more than they ever believe.

And that's what I want to be guided by each day.

The other thing that Stanford highlighted to me when I go back to I wanted to be a citizen of the world.

I love the fact that, you know, nearly half my classmates were not from the US And I had the opportunity to be on the leadership team that organized our trip to Israel where we took business students from the gsb.

We tried to have the group be as balanced as possible between Christians, Muslims and Jewish students.

And we traveled to Israel together and we studied business together and culture together and the impact of religion on business and culture together like that.

Those were the types of perspectives that Stanford was giving me.

It also allowed me a lens that I knew, but was really smacked in the face by around how much I want to impact diversity and especially for women and especially for women of color in our higher institutions of learning and in leadership positions.

I really appreciated Derek Bolton, head of admissions for the GSB as well as his team for being focused on ever increasing representation at the gsb.

And I frankly think that my class that were, you know, six black women was the most they'd ever had and wow, it's the most they ever had.

There's, there is an opportunity to understand where we're falling down on the job of representation and how we encourage that more for.

For women, for those of color, for those, you know, who are coming from other countries.

I just think there's such an opportunity to do that.

And again, I am privileged that I get to do that inside of organizations.

And so what's your advice for those people from underrepresented groups who aspire to be in that kind of Ivy League institution or at the C suite level, and they're on a mission to get there first.

Do not be afraid of being the only.

I talk to a number of women and a number of people of color, either through coaching or mentorship, and I hear quite a bit of, I don't know that I want to be the only one and I can understand that, or I don't know that I want to be one of six when I can go and be one of 150.

Yeah.

Because if you feel like isolating, you feel lonely, as if it's not already hard enough to be a senior executive or go to Stanford, now we're throwing in isolation and stuff like that.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I would challenge each of those people to say, what are you being called to?

Are you being called to a higher order that because you go to that institution and make meaningful, incremental change day after day, that the next class is not 6, it's 10, and that next class is not 10, it's 50, and on and on and on.

What.

What might be in it for you to give to others versus the worry that we might have for self and the risk.

Sometimes it's worth the risk because that.

That pays it forward, not necessarily to just ourselves.

The second piece, I would say, is the.

The importance of relationships that can be about networking, but also mentorship.

Coaching and then advocacy are so very important.

Carla Harris taught me this at Morgan Stanley, and she's written a couple of great books about it.

That every leader, and especially leaders who are from underrepresented groups, really need to find a mentor who's going to speak truth, to be in a network of individuals who are going to be uplifting and encouraging and to always know who in the room is going to pound the table for me when I'm not in the room.

And the mistake not to make is assuming that person needs to look like you.

I have had mentors and leaders and coaches who for the most part, haven't looked like me, but have pounded the table for me, who've supported me, who told me hard truths, who've helped to make me a better executive.

But focusing on Finding those three things in relationship is very important.

And the last thing, the last thing that I will say is no amount of statistics and numbers should stop us from pursuing our dreams.

If I looked at the statistics of where I should have ended up, you know, I'm from Durham and Fayetteville in North Carolina.

I was a teen who could have just decided to live on my own and sort of do whatever.

I'm a woman of color.

If we applied the world statistics to what should have happened to me, what my life should have been, it would not have included Wash U, do Wall Street, Stanford, all these opportunities I've been afforded and I have learned to say to myself, the statistics don't apply to me and if I want it, I go after it.

And if the statistics are supposed to apply to all of us, it's my job to help change.

If there's a playing field, don't wait for somebody to tell you if you're on the playing field or not.

Step on it.

Step on the playing field and then you're on it.

Those statistics don't apply to stop anyone from doing what they desire to do in life.

Go for it.

And if you fail, go for the next thing.

Well, well, that's enough to.

I mean, we could probably stop the interview right there.

We're not going to.

But that's a lot.

That's like a whole book right there.

A lot.

So much good stuff in there.

But.

So my next question is, I mean you've Wall street, your Ivy League in it.

I mean, you think in a lot of stuff, why fertility?

Why, why jump into this world that is not the world that you came from in terms of your focus.

Yeah.

So, you know, I'll start by the, the first point being almost why healthcare?

When I was in business school and I was trying to, to focus my efforts on what types of companies do I want to be in.

I narrowed it down to education, nutrition or healthcare.

They feel, and still do to this day that, you know, those are the three areas that are really hard to access and they're so important to the health of our society to be educated, to have access to food and good nutrition and to make sure we've got great health care.

I am so fortunate to have ended up at Davito, which is I think one of the best healthcare leadership training grounds anyone could go into.

Some of it's trial by fire, but it is the best training ground.

And I went there after business school.

I fell in love with healthcare.

I'm like, I am on this healthcare track.

And if I can bring to healthcare organizations operational excellence that allows clinicians to do what they do best so we have exceptional outcomes and well run businesses, that's what I want to add to companies.

And I've had the pleasure of being in a number of different healthcare companies, mostly private equity backed.

And when this opportunity came up for edrma, I was really intrigued because first, infertility is not something that we're talking about enough.

And as much as society has moved from keeping infertility issues in the dark, they're still not as much in the light as they need to be.

And I really saw an opportunity, especially as I dove into the statistics of, you know, nearly 20% of the population having issues and how much the science has advanced.

Like, this is an industry that is so young and it's in that part of the growth curve where we can expand access tremendously.

The second piece, they started reflecting on my own life experiences and my family.

My mother had all four of her children with one ovary.

She had a couple of sisters who couldn't have kids.

One of my sisters doesn't have kids.

The other, her two are hard fought for and I just have one.

And he said no one ever talked to us, not one of us about fertility treatments.

Question our family history, recommended that we go see a reproductive endocrinologist.

I'm like, why?

Why was this never a conversation?

Felt like something that I want to start tackling on a larger level.

Why?

Why is this not a prevailing conversation?

And then third, just from the business nerd in me, I've not been in a space yet that's this early in what I call truly the growth curve of the industry.

The science is still really young.

We're talking first, you know, IVF baby in the 70s.

Sperm banks weren't really a thing until the 90s.

Like, this is a very young industry.

The founders from back in the day are still around now.

So we've got so much that we can do and I want to have a hand in evrma shaping the conversation in North America and globally.

I think there's a lot of operational excellence that we can bring so that teammates are happier in their work and that technology is utilized appropriately and that we take a big burden off of the clinicians, meaning the doctors, the nurses, the caregivers.

Because for so long in building this space, they've been doing it all.

And I believe that dyad partnerships work the best.

And I saw this opportunity to really introduce that at evrma.

So all these things were super attractive to me.

And Then lastly, the, the, the real big like icing and cherry on top says global in nature.

And I said before, if I, I want to be a citizen of the world and I get an opportunity with EVRMA Global to travel and see how this is done elsewhere.

Last week I was in Rome with an amazing physician who spent a ton of time with, with me and really taught me through how things are done in Italy and what we can learn.

Spent time in Spain.

We, you know, we just have an opportunity here to bring the best demonstrated practices from around the world to this industry.

And that's, that's rare.

It is and it's interesting.

I suspect the conversation around fertility in Europe or infertility is very different than what you would find in North America versus Latin America because there's cultural norms, there's the religious side of this thing, there's all kinds of misunderstandings and people are coming at it from different educational levels.

What do you think the future of this is going to look like, say 20 years from now when you're, you know, completely like the Global CMO or Global, Global CEO or whatever?

Like what, what, what does the future look like?

Well, I hope I'm retired, but they're.

Not going to let you retire.

No way.

The, the, the, the future I think is first, I, I think we will have been successful if the infertility conversation is very normalized.

And when I say very normalized, I mean if I am chatting with someone around an ache or pain like Lynn, you're about to be half a century years old, it's time to go see a doctor about your hip pain.

That conversation just happens organically because we've normalized the fact that there are infertility issues and there are solutions for them and that is great for families.

I also believe that technology in this space will have rapidly advanced.

And when I talk about technology, the lab is really sacred for us.

This is where we're, we're storing eggs, we're storing sperm, we're creating embryos.

Like the, the lab is a special place.

And although there's a lot of technology now that didn't exist just 10 years ago, I'm excited to see what's coming out of a number of startups like Auto IVA that's going on right now to really advance our space and create accessibility because right now IVF is still very expensive and it's not accessible to everyone who needs it.

So making those types of changes and leaning into technology is going to advance this space, I think change the cost.

Structure to make it more change in.

Cost, structure and accessibility.

Absolutely.

So going just one little step, you had mentioned a dyad model that you created.

What exactly is that and what's the change that you've noticed since you implemented it?

And so I truly learned the dyad model best when I had an opportunity to work at Chinmed in primary care.

And this is taking from a leadership perspective at the top of the organization and then filtering it down through the organization.

A clinical leader attached to a business leader.

So when I think about my organization, I am the CEO, but I have an amazing Chief Medical Officer and Dr.

Thomas Molinaro and I are glued together.

And when we think about decision making, when we think about strategy and what's best for the organization, our goal is to say never a compromise in care, always the best in quality and outcomes, while at the same time operational efficiency and excellence and workflow in what we do because patients and teammates deserve all of that.

However, having that in one person is really hard.

And what I have found is that getting the right dyad partnerships together allows me to do what I do best, Dr.

Molinaro to do what he does best and together for us to lead the organization cohesively so that our teammates are also looking 360° at problems and considering all pieces of what we do.

So now in each of our region, so we divide, you know, the countries up into regions, each region has a dyad partnership and then each practice has a dyad partnership.

Yeah.

So we're ensuring great quality, great efficiency, gives balance.

You don't want the whole organization just around from a business perspective because things would start to slip.

But then if you go towards all the medical side, then the profitability may, may erode and you can't grow like you want to grow.

So it's nice to have instead of saying you need to go to training doctor to business school or business person, God forbid you got to go to medical school.

Why not, why not bring a pro together, get them to work together.

Well, man, this has been so cool.

Final question is talking back to yourself, that 15 year old, what's the bit of advice that you would give her or what you would tell her to try?

Wow, that is, that is a great question.

I think I would tell her two things.

One, that courage is a trait to be cultivated and leaned into.

So continue to do that even when it's scary.

And the second thing would be it's never as bad or as hard or as anxiety ridden as you're making it.

It will be.

Okay.

Thanks for coming on the show today.

Lynn.

It was fun.

Thank you Ben.

This is such a pleasure.

I really enjoyed talking to you.

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