Electronic Walkabout no one should have to walk through life alone. We share the good times, the bad times, and the best times. Everyone needs a little direction now and again, and TC and Maddog are here to show you the way. A podcast where we talk about the important things in life. Come journey with us. The Electronic Walkabout Walking in someone else's shoes is an idiom meaning to understand another person's feelings, thoughts and experiences by imagining you are in their situation. Situation. It is a way to cultivate empathy and avoid judgment by considering their perspective, challenges, and life events. The ability to do this will benefit you in both your personal and professional relationships and allows you to look into another's perspective on the same picture, which in the end will set the stage for the best foot forward. Join us on this walkabout as we talk about the importance of taking a pause now and again to step into someone else's shoes for the benefit of. Of everyone. But first is always a thought for the day. Funny, when you hear live like there's no tomorrow. What we need to hear is live like there's no today.

Ooh, you and your deep thoughts.

They.

They always make sense and you always spring them on me and it causes me to pause because it's like I've never thought of it that way.

Maddog, we're getting into fall. How are things going with you in. In the fall weather?

Good.

Good.

It's. I've been doing a lot of traveling to the US lately, so I've been in some nicer climates, but it's only starting to change now, so it's nothing. Nothing too bad.

Nothing too bad.

No.

But. But one of the things that's really been getting me lately is the fact that the days are so short. It's been messing with my mind. I think it's like 11 o' clock when it's literally 7 o' clock at night.

You go downstairs for an hour, come back up, it's like, did I just. What happened there?

Yeah, well, we'll adjust, I'm sure, because again, I guess we're falling back at the beginning of November, right? Yeah. Before we get into the. The. The topic at Cahan, I'm going to try something different for the podcast and I'll call it off topic question. Okay, so you get invited to dinner. Is it rude to ask what's for dinner?

I don't think so, because you could disguise that as well. I just want to make sure I bring the right wine or the right accompaniment or offer maybe to bring a dessert but one of my sons is a fairly picky eater and he doesn't live at home anymore. The standard is we have dinners on Sunday nights. And he's like, so, what's for dinner? And I'm like, I know where this is going. If you don't like it, you're busy. But I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

You don't think there's anything wrong with it? And I was talking to someone that's the other day, and they don't, they don't think so either, but it does seem kind of like rude on one hand. So you're just being invited for dinner and all of a sudden you're asking, well, what's for dinner? And what if you don't like the answer you're getting, then what do you do with that?

Well, suddenly you might be sick that afternoon. I, you know, I, I just, I personally don't see any harm in it. But there are people with very polarizing appetites that might not be. But you would have figured that if it was a friend or something, you might know that already. But I don't think it's, I don't think it's wrong. And I don't know if it would be a sure, but what's for dinner? That would be different.

I guess if you didn't like the answer, it would probably be inappropriate to say, well, if you can. Do I have any other options?

Do you have additional menus I could choose from? Yeah, that would be a little off putting, but. But no, I just, I personally don't see it.

I don't see an issue with it, but it might be just a guy thing where it's like everybody as a guy thinks, oh, no, it's, it's okay, it's all right. No, yeah.

All right.

But what do we know?

Yeah, my wife might be. Why do they not like what I'm cooking? Right. You just, you never know.

Okay, anyways, back on topic here. We're. We're going to talk about the whole idea about walking in another shoes, and I'm going to start with a few questions just to kind of lay the groundwork. And then we're going to get to the heart of the matter, but almost rhetorical. But do we live in a black and white world?

No, not at all.

So how many. So, so how many different ways do you think you could look at, let's say, a challenge to come up with how many different solutions for, for that, that same challenge?

I think it's endless. And Again, it's perspective, and it's no different than the said topic of walking another mile in somebody else's shoes. But you're still looking at it from your perspective, so you might not be able to relate to what they're going through or where they're coming from.

Oh, and you just hit the nail on head with respect to the whole challenge here. It's. It's. And somehow overcome that because we do get stuck in our own ways, for sure. Which leads to my next question. And when I say you, I don't mean you specifically, but if. If you are of this nature, please share anyhow. But do you always have to be right?

No, I think.

Is that.

In which context do you mean? Do I always have to be right or does somebody.

Okay, let's. Let's put it this way. My way is always the right way and the best way to go forward. And that's. That's just the way it is. And if. If you don't like, it's my way.

Or the highway, well, with my kids, yeah, for sure. That's the way to go. But no, I don't personally believe that's a healthy thing. Just because. Well, I think most of us would like to think that we don't know everything. And if you come with that attitude, would you ever learn or would you ever appreciate another perspective? So I maybe don't think it's the healthiest train of thought, but I'm sure people do.

I. I think if you were able to. And we'll talk more about that as we. We go down that. Down this road, but I think if you're able to. To take a look at that. That other person's perspective and as I kind of suggested already, kind of add your perspective to it and somehow come up with the best. That's. That's the way. And I won't call it the perfect world. It's mark and perfect, but it's probably the best way going forward. I'll kind of give an example, too. There. There's a. There was a course. I gave at one time a police course, and I give a true life scenario. And. And it was basically a challenge. How would you. How would you solve this problem? And then I'd have the discussion go for a bit, and then I would share my solution to the problem. That. That was. That was successful, of course, albeit always challenges on top of that. But I don't know how many times that. When I ran those sessions and asked that simple question, well, what would you do in this situation? Some of the answers that I, during those discussions were like miles ahead of what I did at the time. Fair. Yeah.

And you know what? I don't know if our listeners know this, but I prefer not to know what our topics are before we do these. And you do all the hard work and you make the plan, but I like to come at it with just a fresh brain and not pre think anything. And when you said that this is what the topic was, I'm like, oh no, because I think that I've probably advised my children that, but I don't know if I have looked at things in that manner. Right. Because you come at something, any type of problem, whatever, you, Everyone has their own agenda or their own purpose. Is that the first thing you think of? Can honestly say I don't, but I know that when I'm trying to teach my kids or you know, say, well, did you ever think that maybe this is what they're going through? So it was just interesting that it caught me off guard there a little bit.

And again, it is a nice segue to the, to the next, next question. But do you think, and it may or may not be a fair question, but do you think judgment gets in the way of maybe walking in other shoes?

For sure, yeah. Because you might broad stroke something thinking that you know it and in like you say it's judging and then you would form a opinion that way. But if you could remove yourself from that train of thought and really just, I guess try and there's got to be some empathy there to try and understand what somebody else is going through and then that might form a different opinion. But I, I don't know if that is natural to come by to think like that.

I, I don't think it is. And I think it's and could be a, a nurture thing rather than a nature thing, but. And we all know those people that are like literally oozing with empathy. That's really what we're talking about. It's your ability to kind of engage whatever, whatever empathy you can give and learn that it's actually a positive thing and move forward with that.

Yeah. And again, my wife and I are very much yin and yang and she's over empathetic and I'm not. So I think we need that balance for each other to help see things in a different light. Otherwise you get very pigeonholed into a way of thinking and you don't consider other variables.

Oh yeah, for sure. So I mean, what are the benefits of walking in another shoes Any, any Thoughts on that?

I think it's just surely that is looking at it things from another perspective because if you do it that way then maybe you might come up with alternative solutions than the one that maybe you just thought right out of the beginning with your own serving as the focus.

So more efficient problem solving. Sure. I'm going to throw some other ones out there. We already talked about empathy, so your ability to actually develop that skill to. I don't. Because empathy is really appreciating and understanding others feelings. Right. So do you want to call that a skill set? Because if you, if you have empathy, I, I'm just hoping there's some sincerity that comes with it.

You would like to think so. Now I've learned through these podcasts to flip the script on you. So with your employment, would that be ever a thought?

Always. Always. Oh yeah, yeah, for sure.

Oh good.

Yeah. And not for everybody. Right, right. Because, because I mean you can let's say, feel for an individual situation, let them know that hey, this isn't really good. I understand you're not feeling very good about this way. But then there's that whole reality thing. Reality thing. Depending on what situation they're, it's, it's either not gonna be good for them because they're, they're, they're, they're going to end up, let's put it this way, coming with me and spending time where they probably don't want to, but that's just the way it is. But you can certainly feel for it, but certainly not respect the decision that got them there.

Sure.

Yeah.

And with that, do you think that if it's something that you're exposed to or have to practice daily, would you have empathy fatigue?

Oh, that's a good question. Empathy fatigue?

Yeah. Like if you.

Yeah. You know what I think, I think you're absolutely right. I think there could be something called empathy fatigue. And I'm thinking that you just coined a term for the, for the first time. Unless I check Google and see if there is actually something called. No.

And you know what? I can honestly say I stole that from my son who just finished his firefighter training. And that was something that they, they talked about is that you will encounter that because as a newbie starting you care about everybody and you care. Oh yes, you know, this person and this person.

And then you're going to save the world too.

Yeah, it's. And then, but if you're doing that years after years after years, I think that that might get a little old and you might get A little bit crusty around the edges. So I'm just wondering, is that why.

They called me crusty? And I later. My service. My God, now I get it. Yeah, that's, that's a good point. Really is. But I guess like everything else, it's balance especially, especially I guess when we're talking about empathy. If you, if you think that there's this, this formula, I just got to walk in someone's shoes, which includes a large component of empathy and just flip the switch. Okay, this is what I gotta do. There's no sincerity there. You gotta really make sure that if you're gonna go down that road that you mean it.

You're just process orientated. If that's how you're, if that's how you're doing it.

Yeah, for sure. What it will do is create better communication because it's. And I don't know whether you remember or not I shared it with you, I think I can't remember which podcast, but that question I would always ask like what are you thinking right now?

Yes.

So that, and that goes that way, like what are you thinking? And if really answer is like, geez, I'm really scared about this whole situation that we have something that we can talk about to mitigate that fear or whatever. Or they might have a, something that, that's been sitting in the back of their head that they're afraid to mention it because it, it's going to involve some conflict. But conflict is not nearly as bad as people think it is.

Yeah. And I think it's, it's walking in somebody else's shoes through exploration. Right. Because you, you're not completely assuming, you know, and you're actually trying to get a little bit of information from them to understand their perspective and that might make you appreciate what they're going through or how they're walking and.

Absolutely. And, and think about this, just, just all these things that we're talking about. And if you continue to, let's say you go down the road and try and appreciate where, where, where someone's sitting, being in their shoes, that at one point, whether you like it or not, there's going to be an element of personal growth to that. Absolutely, absolutely.

And, and to be able to, because it is not easy to all of a sudden try and care about what other people are going through. Like that is not, I think, something that comes natural to everybody and it's impossibly a learned skill being able to appreciate where they're coming from and then that helps with trying to either Maybe solve a situation or provide guidance.

So, I mean, the. The obvious question now jumps out is, is it easy to walk a mile in someone's shoes?

I say, no, no, because all you know is what you know. And that's why I'm saying if. If. If you take the approach of asking somebody, you know, what do you think? Or what are you feeling, that kind of opens up through the learning portal where you're getting more information, then you can relate to what they're doing, and then maybe that will invoke a little bit of empathy.

So no matter how many times you do it, there's still going to be a challenge there because it's a different person every time.

Exactly. Somebody's walking down the street with, you might think, oh, look at this guy moping around. And then you, to your point, if it's like, hey, everything all right? And it's all, you know, my grandmother just died. You just don't know what people are going through. And if you're just going to brush the stroke and say, oh, look, that guy's just being a bomb and doing this, that you just don't know what people have gone through or are going through to get them in that position.

Okay, so if it's a hard thing to do, let's just chat about some things that we can think about that might help us to make it easier for us if we truly want to go down that road in a sincere fashion. I mean, it may sound simple, but one of the things that involves is a willingness to put your ideas and perspectives aside.

And that. That is exactly to your point. And I think, you know, it shows that maturity or wanting to understand by asking those questions, because then you are asking for their input because you don't know, why are you. Why are you feeling this? Or what. What are you thinking? Right. As opposed to, I know what this person's going through. I can tell them how to, you know, set it straight.

Okay, so you. I mean, what it boils down is asking some questions, and really, it's asking. I don't know if you could. If you could think about it, if you were, like, floating up in the corner and just simply looking at that individual and trying to figure out what's going on and ask him, Asking the question, what is it like to be in their skin, basically, at this point, to face this challenge? And of course, that's going to be easier with a person, you know, compared to, let's say, a person you just literally met off the street. Sure. How is. Let's Say this, this challenge. If we think about someone that you're working with and they have a challenge challenge either at work or at home, how is it effective? Their life, their work and relationships, and here's a good one, their health as well. Because if it's a big, big challenge that's going to cause some stress.

Yeah. Yeah. It takes a strain on your heart, your, your, your mental wellness, everything. And then that just has a ripple effect through everything that you do or their beliefs.

For sure. Like, let's say out of the blue. I mean, you lose someone that's really, really close to you and you're asking and, and you're the one that's trying to figure it out because you never have lost someone. How do you deal with someone like that? How do you put yourself in someone's shoes? You say, okay, this is what it's like to feel grief when you have no idea how to feel grief. It's so hard, bro.

It is. And I think that's a skill set in itself, is to show empathy without having any preconceived knowledge of what somebody else is going through. Because you can't say it's. It's going to be all right.

Or.

Yeah, I know what you're feel. You can't say, like, because you don't know.

You don't know.

So, you know, it's. Yeah. It's a slippery slope with words.

And even if they were to tell you, you might not be able to process that because again, like you said, you don't know.

Yeah. You know, I think the best thing in those situations is just like, I'm here from. For you and anything that you need that I can help you with, you know, let me know. But you don't want to go and try and solve their problems or give them the answers as to. Here's the quick fix to get over this. That.

Yeah. And you should be good by next week. Yeah. Yeah.

Take two of these and call the doctor.

So when projecting empathy, I call it projecting empathy. It's not really projecting it because when you're engaging and showing empathy, is there a danger of opposing your imposing your own feeling to the situation?

I think so.

For sure. So here's a crazy thing. I mean, we're, we're. We sit back and we, we always, we always want to. I wonder what's going on with that guy. You know, he's just not this. Or look at the way she's doing that. There's something, Something not right there. Yeah. Would it not be easier just to go up and say, hey, is everything all right? And get it right from the horse's mouth. Absolutely. A lot of people don't do that. They beat around the bush.

Yeah. Or they're not comfortable asking, you know, the straight up questions.

So the point being is that we, and I always say it, you got to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. This, these are important conversations to have with people. People you care about, people that you work with, depending on your profession, people that you come across in your day to day. I'll say travels. Yeah.

And I think this, this also plays into a previous podcast when we're talking about men's mental health and being uncomfortable just to, to talk to people, whether it's you're being talked to or you're the one talking. But we don't know what people are going through. You know, a lot of us put on a, a brave face and just face the world with a smile every day, but you don't know what's going on behind somebody's eyes or what they're exposed to. So it, it's a, it can be a slippery slope with, with you don't want to force help or force an opinion, but I think by inherent nature we want to see our fellow man and woman be okay now.

Okay, so let me, let me get this straight. So I want to make sure I say this right. It's empathy fatigue. Right. Okay. So now I'm going to bring up something and then when I, when I bring it up, let's go back to empathy fatigue. Because I think this feed the old fatigue based on what I'm about to say. But what the suggestion is is that there's this thing called the art of awareness. So you're, it's like a spidey sense. You, you go into a room and there's like a group of people and say, wait a second, something's not right with that individual that's over there. So the, the point being is that to develop this, this art of awareness to, to help you engage in that empathy and help you literally walk a mile in that individual's shoes. So, and really it is being able to identify, identify yourself with hopes, dreams, fears and longings of others. So you really, what do they think? What are their dreams? What are they thinking? What, what are their challenges? And, and, and help you understand that, to help them. And, and hopefully there, there might even be something reciprocal there. I'm not quite sure.

And you know, it's, I'm sure if, if it were two women sitting across from each Other having this very same conversation, the answers would be vastly different than the ones we're coming at and not good, bad, or indifferent. But, you know, I, I've known a couple of empaths in my time, people that are just, they curb the feelings that other people are having or going through. And I think that can be a blessing and a curse too, because you're, if that's how you're receiving things, if you've got people that are on super highs and super lows and you're taking all that in, that's got to have an effect on you.

Oh, it does for sure. It does for sure. So here, here's getting back to the art of awareness. And really it's being curious, observant and imaginative. So, and I think, I think the opposite of being judgmental is being curious because you're not. There's no, there's no judgment. When you're saying curious, you're saying. It's almost like, okay, well, it's learning. It's learning. So if you have that art of awareness and you're curious about the situation specific to an individual, that's, that's helpful. But if you. Here's, here's where I was thinking about the old empathy fatigue. If you, let's say, flip that switch in each social situation or work situation you go into, I can see fatigue hitting you pretty quickly.

Yeah. Because then it's like, okay, I've heard this one 10 times. Get over it. You'll be fine. You become mildly judgmental, and it just sets you back in your thought process to where you were.

You don't know how I'm feeling. You have no idea.

Yeah. And you don't.

And you don't. Another perspective. What if simply we walked alongside a person rather than in their shoes? Which is better?

I think to start by walking with them might be a good start, because then, then there's that understanding and, you know, being. Then you might be able to relate a little better or, or get that understanding of what they're going through as opposed to just jumping into their shoes, assuming that you know where they're at right there. But there's always a lead up to it. Like, people don't just become the way they are overnight. There's usually, you know, some repetition or some circumstance that repetitively affects them, and that's maybe where they got to where they were.

I mean, at the end of the day, we kind of talked about it. There, there's a large component of empathy in this. But, but is it simply the Power of empathy to appreciate how someone may be feeling. Is that what walking a mile on someone should?

No, no, I just think that's a part of it to help understand. But then there's communication comes into it because, you know, do you really want to tell somebody how to get fixed? Right. Is. Is that a good way to. To help out somebody that's maybe needing some assistance or, or do you relate and provide options and, and you know, instead of tearing them.

Very good question. Because I mean, as, as things go on and we, we seem to have changed in our tact where, where at one point in time it might have been, hey, get your head out of your end, you're not doing well. Get it together, get it together. As opposed to the other extreme. Well, you know, you got to make sure that are you okay?

Right.

And so where's the balance there to make sure that. Because sometimes you do need a kick in the ass for sure. Yeah. Not nine times out of ten.

No, there's. It's the recognition of the situation and.

Yeah.

And what it should be like, okay, suck it up. You're fin. Carry on. Versus. Oh, okay, that one was not good. Let's talk about this a little more. So. And that's the art of parenting, essentially, you know, and then that leads into relationships and whatnot. But yeah, you got to always learn the moment you stop learning and you think you know it all, then you're really. That lack of understanding is going to kick in.

So getting back to a bit of a challenge to our listeners. Don't. Don't be afraid to engage and truly put yourself in someone else's shoes to the benefit, not only them, but to the benefit of yourself and putting literally the best foot forward.

It's. Yeah, it is. This is not a single answer topic.

Post for sure, but unfortunately that music is telling us that this episode has come to an end. I mean, there's so many benefits when we take the time to consider another person's thoughts, which include increased empathy, better communication, reduced prejudice, more efficient problem solving, and all around personal growth. Things that we've kind of already mentioned early in this podcast. But truly, if you knew that those were the benefits, would you try and engage that as three times as you could? No.

There's no downfall. There's no bad side to that.

No bad side. So remember, our way is not always the right way. And our ability to find a better way rests in walking in another shoes. Their feelings and ideas. Learning to appreciate this begins with practice. Consider this one practicing stop and reflect on what is going on in the moment. So if you're so, so tied up and this is the way I'm going.

To do it, you're just going to be.

The tunnel vision is going to kick in. You're going to miss so many good opportunities to learn more by just taking the time and pausing. Be aware of your surrounds and the people in it. Ask yourself some pointed questions about how the others work. Deal. Be willing to, to engage or action, what you've learned during this process. I mean, we didn't talk too much about action, But I mean, nine times out of 10, it does you no good to come up with a plan if you don't engage in the action afterwards. And finally, our ability to read minds will always get us into trouble. Don't be afraid to ask someone what they're thinking or feeling in the moment. Any other thoughts there, Matt? Doug?

No, it's, that is a big topic wrapped up into, into one podcast. And I think it's, it's, there's no end to trying to be empathetic or understand other people. So, you know, that would be my encouraging words is just ask those questions like you said, you know, because I, I take stuff from these podcasts too. It's like I never thought of it that way and I'm going to do it. And if I told my wife we talked about empathy, she'd be like, you talked about empathy. So we're not going to tell her?

Well, we will not tell them. It'll be a big secret.

Yeah, I'm sure she listens to this.

Remember to take advantage of the moment before the moment takes advantage of you. To learn more about eWalkabout, please visit us at eWalkabout.

Cat.