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Welcome to a Psycho delicious conversation on mental health issues and trends from two local mental health professionals in the greater Lansing area. I'm Michael Stratton, lmsw.

And I'm Morgan Bowen, dnp, pmhnp. And we're here to provide you with a deep dive into the human experience of consciousness and beyond. Our aim is to be educational and entertaining. So just kick back and open your ears and your minds.

Hey, I'm Mike Stratton.

And I'm Morgan Bowen.

And this is going to be one of those beyond episodes.

Beyond what?

Because, well, in the intro you say, you know, we explore all things of consciousness and beyond. And I think this is a beyond episode, which is a cool thing. We're joined here today with our producer, Dadalian Lowry. If perhaps you hear his voice at some point or another Dadalion, give him a shout out so they know when your voice comes in. That's you.

This is Dadalian.

That's a radio voice.

That's.

That's a true.

Yeah, that was a. Yeah. What is that? A baritone.

Were you trained in. In speaking?

I actually began here at Lansing Community College in the media technology program. And then I got dropped, like in 2008 or so, mainly because I got a job prior to graduating. So a lot of the students that went through the program, it was a good program and that's what would happen. They get the job, they'd move on.

There you are.

But vocal training, have you ever had any sort of.

I mean, nothing specifically. No, no.

I just.

I love the sound of my voice.

Well, believe it or not, that's not the point of our conversation today. But it could be.

Well, it's a reaction to somebody. Somebody mentioned they wanted someone.

Yeah, we actually heard back from a listener and that's why this is a beyond episode.

Are we blowing up?

They have. We. Apparently at least three people have listened now who tripled, not including me.

Yeah, so four, technically. Yeah, me and then three other people.

We are blowing up and we're getting feedback. So as we always say, you know, we love your comments and your requests and all that kind of stuff. And this person wanted to know who Dalian was. That was the first thing they wanted to know. And who's. Who is that voice when another voice comes in. But they also wanted to know how it is for us when we work with somebody who is lost. So the concept of being lost, I thought that's a good, great two parter. So the first part on being lost and then how do people get found? But the whole Wilderness. You could be in the wilderness. I've been lost in Lansing. I have been lost in Lansing.

I've been lost in Lansing.

I was over imbibing in a substance at once, and I didn't know. I couldn't remember where I was, what side of the town I was in, what town I was in, all of that. That's a real being lost. But. But that. So there's that.

So how did you feel at that time? I mean, that, you know, to freak out. Yeah.

Freaked out. And I drove and I was driving, which is even worse. We're gonna have to.

No comment.

I mean, you were young.

No comment. Other than it's not a good idea.

I was young last year.

You were young in my.

In my. In my 20s, probably.

That was a poor decision. You recognize that. You corrected. You moved on.

There's.

There's over sharing and then there's oversharing. Ye.

But going back to that feeling of being lost, because I think it's good to root the discussion in that because it's a terror comes to mind. Just a very uncomfortable being bad.

Disoriented. Being disoriented. I mean, being oriented, you know, okay, which way is east? But being disoriented, you don't know what direction you're going. You don't know what's going to happen. And I think sometimes clients come and they have a good sense of what they want, and sometimes they don't. And I think that that sense of being lost, like, I feel like I'm stuck. That's another word that gets used of. I just feel like I'm stuck or I don't have any movement or I just can't get motivated. All of those kinds of things.

Yeah. And, you know, when I do medication management, which is primarily what I do.

See, I admit to the medications I take.

So. But people come, you know, for a variety of reasons. But sometimes people come because they feel like mental health assistance would be helpful for them, but they're not quite sure who or how to do that. You know, so they feel lost in their life, but then also not totally sure how to wade through or how to enter into finding some guidance or assistance with that. And so when I will do an evaluation, and I'm really looking to see, is it, you know, is there a diagnosis here that we can work with that, you know, medication may be helpful? And, you know, sometimes in the more existential crises, crises, life change, transition, you know, all the earth has or the situation has moved for the person and they're not Quite sure. And that happens often in people's lives. I mean, for sure. But also with COVID I mean, things change so drastically for people.

And.

And so, yeah.

Speaking of COVID you just got over it.

I did. I did.

Not too long ago.

I got it two weeks ago. It is. It's still a thing. Covid is a.

Is a.

Is still a thing for us.

But just what you were saying, you know, that one thing that therapists do is that we have an ability to make maps. And one of the maps is stages of development. You know, where are you in life? What are your challenges likely to be? Do you have any current traumas that are triggering you that have made this occur? And I think that is a part of what people come for is to have some kind of a sense, some kind of a map made. It's like a psychological map of where they are and that it makes sense that they get some validation. Of course, you're lost. You just had this. You've had this. You've had this. So often people find that valuable. Would you find that valuable?

Yeah. I think you guys hit on what the times in my life, I think when I felt loss is when something. Well, first of all, when I went through depression, that was a point where I definitely would say I felt lost. I didn't feel like I had a purpose, didn't feel like I knew where I was going or what I was going to do. The other times, I would say, would be where there was a very huge loss in my life, like when my grandparents passed away or points where, like, for instance, I was at one radio station and I actually got fired from that radio station, not because I was doing a bad job, but because I was replaced by technology. And I had already had in my brain the direction I was going, what I was doing. I was like, yeah, this is what I'm gonna do from here, here and here. And after that, it was like I kind of lost my path to where I was going.

The map changed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Which happens, I mean, all the time. I just saw a new person this week who is in a helping profession, and I kind of was extrapolating, reflecting on my own experience, you know, as a nurse, teachers, people who work in healthcare. Things have changed. Dr. Covid was a very hard time. We were essential workers. There was a lot of pressure. There was a lot of unknown. And since then, the population or the world or the way that they treat people in these, there's a lot more propensity for maltreatment. And Anger and hostility. And so that has really changed. A lot of people in these professions. They're relationship with what they do, their relationship and why they did this and how they're doing. And I saw this person and they were just like, I don't know what is going on. I don't like what I do anymore. I don't want to do this anymore. This was everything. This was my life. This is my career. I am so proud of what I've done, but it's just different. And I don't know what to do.

I think that's true. The idea. I mean, depression is one of those. And I think sometimes you're on a course of action in your life where you think you know where you're going. You think, this is what I'm going to do. And then something hits and suddenly you're like, okay, I don't know how to orient myself now. So depression. Yes, that was true for me as well. And another time I felt pretty lost after a divorce that I went through.

Yes, I experienced that as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And even though it was like my sense was, I need to get out of this relationship, but then it was kind of like, okay, now what? Where am I going to go? And it just. And I just felt like I was moving in mud. I did. You know, my term at the time was kind of like, I need to get my mojo back. I need to get my, you know, my energy groove or something.

Get your groove back.

Get the groove supreme going. When Mike got his groove back, that's it. But that. That kind of thing that, you know, just feeling lost, feeling no motivation, feeling aimless, just questioning all your, you know, what am I here? Why am I here? What am I here for?

I can't imagine.

There.

I can't imagine.

Yeah, I was gonna say exactly. A human experience. I can't imagine there's a single individual on this planet that hasn't had a moment in their life where they go, what am I here for? What am I doing?

Yeah, that was a song that. In Barbie, the musical. Barbie. What am I here for? Or why was I made? Why was I made Barbie?

I think that movie actually kind of grappled with a lot of these questions.

I think it did. I think it did.

Because all of a sudden, Barbie's, you know, it wasn't enough anymore to be Barbie. There was something missing for Barbie.

Barbie was placed in a different context.

Barbie. Yes, exactly.

Barbie got contaminated by bad Barbie.

Broken Barbie.

Bad Barbie.

Well, I think also, like connecting.

Bad, broken Barbie.

Did you See it?

Yeah, I saw it.

Yeah, I only saw it once, which I really liked it, but I feel like I need.

I would recognize. Recommend it as a watch.

It's good. It's good. But anyway, she's on a journey.

She is.

Anyway, we don't have to use her.

Well, I think the idea of connecting it to the wider human experience, but maybe even the modern human experience and maybe postmodern or post postmodern or wherever we are these days, there's so many ways to get lost. There's so much information that is available. There's so many representations of do this, do that, stimulus bytes of information, snapshots into worlds that are available to us so easily that the thread is so easily lost. I guess I would say it's so possible to get lost.

Well, I think the idea of stimulation as opposed to meaning, I think that that is different in this day and age. I think that that's. I'm drawing circles.

I like those circles. And I think we're circling. I think we're circling. I was gonna say circling the drain, but we're actually circling towards, you know, what Center. What is the core? Who. What is your core as a person? Who are you? How can we as clinicians facilitate finding that or bringing that back or helping you with that process? Because it really is a you process. I mean, it is.

That is.

I mean, some would argue the journey of life to really discover who you are, what you're capable of, how it is that you.

It's kind of a necessity.

And how do we help you with that?

It's a necessity. I mean, you're going to feel lost at some time in your life. It's just going to happen.

And that's different than gratification. You know, you can be. Your mind being occupied is not the same as your mind being fulfilled or your experience being fulfilled.

I'm so add. I just looked at what.

Well, you know.

On the screen. I thought I'd take a moment just.

To see what we'd come up with. Just because sometimes that kind of sparks extra thoughts here and, you know, like Jirr Tolkien, just different quotes and not all those that wander are lost.

That's a good one. Sometimes when you lose your way, you find yourself.

And a lot of it has to do with. Because you actually sent a text earlier today to let us know what we were going to talk about. And I remembered the one quote that always kind of made me giggle. But it was funny because I had never thought about it one way or the other. I said what was the quote? The quote was, I'm lost. I'm going to find myself. If I return before I get back, please ask me to wait. And after that, Morgan came back with a responsive. Is that inspirational or snarky?

That's like a little bit of both, I think.

A little bit of both.

That was L. Lionel Kendrick.

That's good.

But I was also thinking of the other one, the one that always. And I actually think this fits the conversation that we're talking about. The quote that is on my desk that I had forgotten. The previous program director, Lyn Perino, she used to be here, and she had this on there forever. I'm not lost, I am exploring.

Yeah.

And that is Janice Stanfield.

Well, you know, if we.

But that's what we're doing.

If we get into stories and mythology and all that kind of stuff, there's almost always a period where the protagonist, where the hero is lost, is uncertain. And, yeah, they're uncertain. They're going through some kind of a process where they have to find. They have to face challenges in the midst of that. So it's kind of a necessity. There's another movie called Stutts. Have we ever talked about that?

I don't think so.

We could do a whole episode on Stutts. Did you see Stutts? I have not. Okay. It's currently on Netflix, I believe. But the S, T, U T Z. And Jonah Hill was at a point in his life. That's him. That's a picture. Okay. He had. I can't remember if he was nominated or if he actually won an Academy Award, but he was in all these big movies and he was making a lot of money and doing really well in a lot of ways, but he was just unhappy. He was just still unhappy. And so he decided to get therapy, and he got therapy with this guy Stutts. And it was so helpful to him. He said, I want to make a movie about you. And Stutts said, okay. Now, I think there may be ethical.

Ego in every therapist.

If you had a client come to you and say, I think we should make a movie about you, Morgan, don't.

You think Mike would say yes?

No.

Mike would say, why, yes, you could.

Why, yes, I'd be happy to be in that movie.

We are so. We are so painting a picture of Mike. That is not. Mike, you evil.

Hey, shotspired man.

Well, there's an edit I gotta do.

There's an edit.

All right. So anyway, the point of this, that I'm bringing this up rather than talking about my overblown ego. But when you spot it, you got it. So I noticed that one of the things that he says is, in terms of the human condition, there are three things that you've got to accept in life. And one thing is there's going to be pain. So don't be surprised when there's pain. It's going to be pain. But the second thing is, and it doesn't matter how successful you are, how far into your journey you are, there's going to be uncertainty. And so I think that's what being lost is. There are times when you're like, everything's going exactly as planned. And you're like, now what? Why did I do this? Is this the right path? What if I had done this? What's going to happen tomorrow? All those kinds of things.

It's a learning curve, too. I've seen quite a few younger folks in the last couple days. And that uncertainty is so uncomfortable when you're young. And, you know, reflecting on my own. Well, it is, but reflecting on my own life, you know, when you're young, you kind of. Well, at least I had a sense that people had it figured out that I was the only one that was floundering or, you know, kind of flailing around. That's why. Or just a sense that I should have it figured out, like, it shouldn't be this difficult.

You kind of said it right there too, is. I think when you're younger, your thought process is more. Everybody's looking at you like you should have stuff figured out. Whereas I think as you get older, you start to realize nobody's really got it figured out.

Right.

So I'm talking to these young folks, kind of reflecting on my own experience of feeling like that. But also as an older person, I'm 46, you know, not as old as me. But thinking you, nobody has it figured. You know, you're right at the. This is very normal for, you know, this is. You're in a good spot. But they don't feel that way. And certainly I honor that and recognize, you know, that's part of the reason that they're seeing me. But it did just reflect in my own experience and then. And then seeing kind of aversion. And that's an interesting. I mean, you have to be very careful with transference, countertransference. But your own life experience in the work that we do is informative and can help to really kind of identify where people are at. Yes, but. Yes, as you get older, you can definitely still get lost. But I think as an older person, and I guess I would say in my own life, I'm a bit more comfortable with the times in which I'm lost. Maybe not initially, but there's more of a sense that the world isn't crashing around and everything is going to fall apart.

It is.

I definitely have that feeling.

Great.

Yeah.

I'd say it's also that deal, too, where you've already been through the experience of being lost and you know you're going to find your way out again. It's just a matter of being patient, going through the process.

But having said that, you know, the midlife crisis isn't that typically in the 40s. I would say I had a quarter life crisis. I feel like my Cris in the 25 to 35 range.

But I remember being, you know, that going from college out into the quote, unquote, real world. I remember that being really panicky. Panicky might be too strong a word, but just what am I doing? Is this the right thing to do? Definitely had a midlife crisis, even though I denied it at the time. And now I'm retirement age, but I'm not retiring. I don't want to retire at this point. Not yet. But there's some level of uncertainty with that as well. So of that.

Well, and as you said, you know, as you look ahead, you've got that overwhelming feeling of, where am I going to go? What am I going to do? In your younger years, as you get older, of course, it's more, what have I accomplished? What could I do now? You know, where am I going to? Actually, I suppose you still have points where you go, what am I going to do now? Because that's kind of what you're doing right now, right?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. And doing.

Because you are the old guy in the room.

I am the old guy in the room. I am the old guy in a lot of rooms. And it's a surprise to me. The weird thing about age is you don't feel. Feel that much different inside. True. And then you see yourself in the mirror and you're like, what? What the hell happened? What. What's going on here?

You know, I speak Covid. When I had Covid, it. It lingered and kind of still linger. I mean, I'll be tiredness. I feel tired and my shoulders are achy. And it's the first time when I've ever gotten sick where I'm like, maybe I'm feeling this because I'm older.

That's interesting.

My immune system is not Clearing it as quickly as it should. But I don't know if that's true or not, but it did cross my mind.

I did get it two years ago, and it was kind of the same thing.

Kind of hung on. Yeah, there's a challenge to being lost to an extent, too. And one of my favorite musicians is Miles Davis. And one of my favorite albums of Miles Davis is Bitches Brew. And the very first time I heard that music, Electric Miles Davis, I couldn't make any sense of it at all. And over. Over time, I've grown to love it. It's my favorite period of his now. But he knew he wanted to do something different, totally new. But he would bring these musicians in. Some of them knew each other and they knew of his music, what he used to play. And they were going to get together at his house the day before the recording session. And they got there and they thought he'd be running through tunes with them. Instead they were. You know, they were eating food and they were talking about. He was into fashion. So he was talking about fashion or about sports or that kind of stuff and says, ok, be here tomorrow at noon. They didn't know what he expected of him or what they wanted. And he just put them all in a room and they just invited him to start playing. And then he come in and play something on top of it. And they edited different things like that. But when they talked to those musicians about what was expected of you. And One guy, John McLaughlin, for instance, is a. A great guitarist for the In A Silent Way sessions. He was playing all these lines very, very quickly. And Miles would make a suggestion to him and he says, I want you to play the guitar like. Like it's the first time you've ever held it. And so all of a sudden he's really halting and a lot of space between his lines and that kind of thing, you know. Just another time he went to somebody and he says, I know. I know you know what to play. I know you know how to play. I know what you play. I want you to play what you don't know how to play. Like deliberately getting lost.

Yeah. Simulating or promoting the simulation of some type of. And now I'm thinking, is that what jazz at least like, you know, kind of freestyle jazz, some of it, where it is a cacophony of divergent sounds that somehow come together at some point.

If it's totally free improvisation. I tell people sometimes that are listening to jazz for the first time and they want to know what to listen for. And I say, well, tension and release is one way to think about it. Because you'll see it. You'll see a certain level of dissonance or tension building. And then there'll be a release into something else.

The universality of loss is just really striking me. And with fairy tales, you talked about mythology. I mean, fairy tales are almost always. You're lost in the woods, it's scary, and you have to make it through. For some reason, I'm thinking of Little Red Riding Hood. That concept of just being detached or set adrift. And you have to find the way. You have to find the direction. You have to kill. Slay the beast.

The way a way.

It's so rooted and primitive. Human consciousness that is very Jungian. If somebody is a car. Yeah. A young person.

The geekiness. I mean, just the first thing. When Mike. When Mike had said that, the very first thing that came to mind was Luke Skywalker on the desert horizon, looking out, thinking about, where am I gonna be? What am I gonna do?

It's a modern myth. I mean, that is a huge, hugely modern myth. Disney and fantasy has made huge amounts. I mean, it brings mythology to the modern or postmodern. I think at that point, we were still modern.

Oh, we could do a whole thing on union archetypes. I mean, you go to the theater, you see it over and over again. You see that? You do. And we never get tired of it. There's the hero, there's the hero. There's the romance. This is how women come. Women and men, or men and men and women and women, whatever combination. There is this other.

But it's interesting, the universality of it, because when you're in it, you feel very alone and you feel very Al. And so maybe part of. And we're going to talk about the things that can be done to help bring people back from that. The universality of that experience is one of the things maybe that's emphasized.

Well, we haven't really hit on it. I mean, the notion that. I mean, honestly, being lost also leads to growth.

Oh, it does.

I mean, you kind of said it with the Miles Davis analogy there. Led to creativity.

That's when the change happens.

Yeah. I think people resonate with it. And I'll say one more thing before we sign off, because I mentioned Stutz said three things.

You gave us a cliffhanger, didn't you?

Yeah.

He said there's pain. Pain is necessary. You're going to feel pain, uncertainty. You're going to feel uncertainty. Third is the work you must accept that you must do the work a psycho Delicious conversation is meant for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is no substitute for therapy and should not be treated as such. If you feel a need for real therapy, you should consult your local provider, Google Therapy or therapists in your area. Check with community mental Health or a suicide hotline if you are feeling suicidal.

Mike and Morgan welcome your questions, feedback or dilemmas. Feel free to send us an email at a psychodelicious conversationmail.com that is a psychodelicious P S Y C H O D E L I C I o u s conversationmail.com the views expressed on.

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This is Bob Myers from the Historical Society of Michigan with a Michigan history moment. There were five young sailors from Bay City aboard the battleship. It was 1898 and they were in Cuba and most of them did not like the Navy. Elmer Mealstrup had run away from home to join the Navy. He was on board with a classmate, William Madison. Mealstrup made his feelings clear when he wrote to his mother. If these officers had only told me the truth, I never would have shipped. But they told such stories and showed us such pictures that I thought it would be like living on a yacht. William Madison couldn't understand why their ship was in Havana. He reasoned that they must be protecting American interests. Howard Hawkins, another Bay City, wrote to his mother, saying that the food set before us isn't fit for a hog. On the ship, the officers enjoyed delicacies, but the commons seamen ate salt beef and hardtack. Gunner's Mate first Class Charles Earman had lived in Rogers City. In Bay City, he was trying to have his congressman arrange a transfer to another ship. The fifth Bay City sailor aboard, George Lumet, hailed from New York but lived in Bay City. Their ship was the USS Maine. She sailed into Havana harbor in January 1898 during a time of conflict in Cuba. Rebels on the island were battling the Spanish government and American soldiers, sympathizers and commercial interests supported them. Officially, however, the United States was neutral and the Maine was in Havana on a friendly visit to protect American interests. On February 15, 1898, an explosion blew the Maine apart. The explosion killed or mortally wounded 266 of the 355 men aboard, almost all of them enlisted men. Of the five young men from Bay City, only 18 year old William Madison survived. Most of the crew's bodies went unidentified, including the other four from Bay City. Americans blamed Spanish saboteurs for the disaster and remember the Maine was a rallying cry during the Spanish American War. An investigation later revealed that the explosion was probably caused by coal dust, not a Spanish mine. In 1899, the remains of the Maine sailors were interred in Arlington National Cemetery. They rest there today at the granite memorial that supports the battleship's mainmast. In 1911, the wreckage of the Maine was raised, towed out to sea and sunk. This Michigan history moment was brought to you by michiganhistorymagazine.org.

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EDU LCC Connect, Voices, Vibes, Vision hello.

Friends and welcome to Coach Cut's Corner. Streaming bright from Michigan's capital city. This podcast is dedicated to helping helping you better understand the who, the what and the why of mental performance, personal growth and Lansing Stars baseball. Coach Cuts Corner brought to you by Eyewash in collaboration with Lansing Community College. And now, here's your host, Stephen Cutter.

Welcome to Coach Guts Corner. Thank you for tuning in and subscribing coaching. Each week I aim to provide insights into our program and inspire you to challenge yourself, just as I continue to challenge myself. My goal is to help you enhance your life through these conversations. In addition to this podcast, I offer mental skills coaching for athletes at all levels, from the youth to the professional. To learn more, visit coachcutter.com today in the WLZ studios, I have world famous Aiden Reynolds and Coach Allen joining me today. How you doing, fellas?

Phenomenal.

How are you?

I love that, love that. Doing, doing well. Got a lot of zest today. Ready to roll.

There we go.

So, Aiden, let's jump right in. Let's talk about your background and journey a little bit. You grew up in Waterford, Michigan.

Yep.

And you played that world famous Waterford Kettering.

That's right.

So get into that a little bit. What was growing up in Waterford like and playing baseball there?

Yeah, I mean, it was great. I love the Waterford area. It's pretty much like a central location for a lot of different places. We're right next to Clarkston, Pontiac, Walt Lake. So I loved growing up there. There's always stuff to do, you know, whether hanging with your friends, going bowling or something like that. But yeah, Waterford Kettering was a great school. I loved it. Very good at academics and even better at baseball.

10, 10 push ups when we're done with this podcast. You. You played baseball? Did you play any other sports?

I played football. Yeah. Okay.

What position? Position?

Defensive end. Tight end.

Interesting. You know, you're. You're kind of small for a tight end or defensive end, right? Yeah. Interesting. Did you enjoy football?

I loved it. I had so much fun. I. I almost thought about playing in college, but.

Really?

Yeah.

What changed?

I had a surgery. I had my elbow surgery.

Right.

Which.

We'll get into that a little bit. So that. That scared you? A little bit. Did you play football from a young age?

Not really, no. Started in middle school, seventh grade, and went from there.

Interesting. Have you always been tall for your class and stuff?

Yeah, usually.

Did you enjoy that?

I liked it. I didn't mind it.

Any negative things with being tall?

My back hurts a lot. My knees hurt.

Okay.

That's about it.

Yeah. I think one of the things with me being tall that I experienced, which we live in a different. A much different world right now, but I would struggle to get shoes because my feet were kind of big. They're not big anymore. They're like only 14s, but. But the. It was hard to get shoes, you know, so that was one of the things that sucked about, you know, being tall. What drew you to baseball?

I think it was just at a young age, my mom was always trying to get me to do a little sports here and there.

Really?

So she always put up a little mini hoop, and I was throwing the ball around the backyard. And why.

Why do you think your mom was trying to get you to do sports?

I. I really don't know. I think I was just.

Did she have a sports background?

She played softball.

Okay.

But she never played collegiate level or anything like that, so.

Do you know what positions she played in softball?

I. I really don't.

You should ask more questions.

I should.

Should know that. So. So your early experiences in baseball, were they positive or negative or a mix?

I. I'd definitely say a mix. I mean, I don't remember off the top of my head when I was super young, playing T ball and whatnot. But. But as I get a little bit older, I remember there's some down times where in 9U, 10U, where they're thinking, I might not have the arm for it and I might be in right field.

So right fielders are supposed to have great arms.

Definitely had to work for the credibility.

All right. What was your recruiting process like? I always like to ask that question for not only our current players, but just other kids. What's it look like for you? Because in the last five years or so, it's changed so dramatically. The whole recruiting has changed. And the transfer portal is a big reason. You know, roster limits, just. Just a lot of things, but transfer portal is probably the biggest thing. So what was your recruiting process like?

It was honestly very smooth.

Okay.

I didn't really have many issues coming out of high school. Last season I played was my junior year, so it was a little bit difficult there because I didn't have, you know, my senior year footage or anything to get me, I guess, on the radar. So I had to go off of junior year stats and just outings.

I guess we'll talk about that a little bit.

Yeah.

What brought you to or what drew you to Lansing, really?

I mean, we talk about it a lot in leadership, but just the legacy and the reputation that was built up about the program, it was like one that I haven't heard from any other school. And the coaching staff, I mean, Coach Movie with getting me here, he was probably the friendliest coach that I had came along and I mean, I couldn't turn down that reputation that the stars had.

So it's awesome. So you face some adversity and resilience is a word that we talk about a lot and how powerful and important it is to have resilience and not only to have it, but to continue building it. You want to talk a little bit about some of the adversity you had with injuries?

Yeah, it started off very early. I mean, I was usually dealing with a little bit of elbow pain throughout the younger days. And then like Little League, like middle school time, 13, 14, you. I'd always feel a little, you know, tinge and look past it because I'm so young and I.

How were you managing?

It really wasn't. And that's the. That's the hard part is that I'm looking back on it. I mean, I wish I would have just.

Did you take like, ibuprofen and stuff?

Yeah, ibuprofen, ice, heat sometimes. And, well, leading up to it, I mean, after freshman year of high school, finding out how to get Tommy John Surgery at 16 years old, that was like, that's tough. Eye opening. I mean, that was. I hadn't heard anybody that young getting it or nobody around me had even gotten the surgery or talked about injuries like that. So it was unknown grounds and difficult times coming ahead that I really didn't understand yet at that time.

What was the recovery like on that at such a young age?

It was hard at first because, I mean, I'm. I don't know what I'm going into, and it really helped. I had my coaching staff from high school and my mom, who's easily my biggest motivator, that helped me get through it. But, yeah, it was difficult at first, but as soon as I started the grind, that PT grind, and then working into throwing, I mean, I Mean, I. I hit it and ran with it because, I mean, I just love that kind of stuff.

So you get all the way back?

Yep.

Then what?

And then play a little bit in high school, don't pitch at all. And then that summer, I was throwing and felt some pain in the back of my shoulder. Ended up finding out that had a labrum tear. And I think it was due to a little bit of compensation from recovering from my elbow, but also just simple mechanic flaws. And, I mean, that was pretty much a heavy hitter for me as well, because I work for 12, 14 months and then just get knocked right back down, which was very difficult to hear.

But how do you think those setbacks have shaped your mindset?

I try to see the best out of it. I mean, it has definitely changed the way I view things, changed the way I think change. And I feel like now you can throw anything at me, really, and might impact me at first. I might think, oh, shoot, this might not be great, or how am I gonna do this? But day later, I'll be like, all right, this is what I'm doing. This is my plan. This is how I'll attack it. And it's really shaped me into who I am today.

Yeah. I think of three words with your kind of process that you've been leading into, and it's. It's like, gosh, patience, perseverance, that kind of stuff. How important things like discipline and stuff like that are. And can you reflect when we talk about discipline and perseverance, how much. How important that is when you're going through, like you said, a grind, but you're also going through things where you just don't really know. You might be getting a lot of doctors feedback and stuff, but you don't really know. There's a whole trust and belief system that when you do come back, that you're fine. And there's. There's definitely some PTSD stuff that goes into guys that have had. Or people in general that have had, you know, fairly significant injuries. And that. That's a real thing, too, where it's just like, you know, you have to have some perseverance. You've got to be able to build that resilience muscle. You've got to do some things, otherwise you're going to struggle when. Even when people are telling you you're completely healthy, you know. Have you experienced some of that?

Absolutely. The first thing I can say is it's hard. It's very hard. And, you know, you have a lot of months ahead of you, you know, you have a lot of effort that you have to put in. And the hardest thing with that is easily the word that you said is discipline. Staying disciplined to doing your exercises, doing the small things that will create the better habits later on. That. That's the largest part. And I think my mom really helped me stay disciplined and also my desire to play baseball in college helped me stay pretty disciplined and just pushing through and persevering through the hardest times, which obviously ended up working out today.

So it sounds like you had a pretty solid why. And that reminds me your path a little bit. Reminds me of Marcus Aurelius quote, which you've probably seen on our group chats many times. But the obstacle in the path. Path becomes the path, you know?

Yep. I know for me personally, when I went through my shoulder surgery, the hardest part was, was that mental hurdle. What. What did you do to kind of get over that, that mental hurdle, whether that's through the Tommy John or through your shoulder surgery?

Yeah. The biggest thing I'd say was having that goal.

Yeah.

In the back of my mind, like, I, I'm gonna do this. This is what I want and this is what I will do. The why that was the biggest thing for leading to me and driving through and pushing through every day to get to where I am right now. Also, I. It's kind of funny, but something I said at a younger age just before high school is I said I wanted to go to college and play baseball and I wanted to make it as easy as I can on my mom. And that was the. One of the biggest whys that I had is I'm gonna do this for my mom. Like, I'm going to make this easier for her.

Powerful.

So awesome. That's what I really stuck with.

Let's move into kind of the current state and getting back on the field and how you feel, you know, how you're feeling right now, you know, physically and mentally, I feel amazing.

I. I love where I'm at right now. I'm just at the end of my recovery phase. I'm building up, ramping up, getting ready for live abs. Hopefully, hopefully soon.

And to frame that a little bit, when's the last time you've pitched?

Last time I pitched live in game was the summer of my junior year. So close to two years ago. And then the time before that was my freshman year of high school.

Yeah, I think that sums up the path a little bit and how hard that is and what it takes to get back. And I think sometimes either with Tommy John or Labrums or anything else. People see them, they become more commonplace. They think, oh, it's just.

Just.

It's, you know, 10 months, 12 months, whatever, 14 months and I'll be back. But there's a lot that goes into that time and there's. There's got to be a lot of effort on both ends, not only with pt, but for you on both ends, mentally and physically. So it's a pretty exciting time for you to be able to be so close to coming back. And. And so I'm really excited for you. What are some of the things that you're doing as we talk about that a little bit to continue your process in recovery?

Yeah, I'm still in pt. I mean, try to go for two days a week grinding out pt.

Are you doing that here in the capital city?

Yeah, just down the road from where all of us athletes stay. I got great guy over there, Rick. I'm not sure if you are familiar with him at all over at Athletico, and I mean, he has done a phenomenal job with me, helped me me with the little. Little things that ache when I walk in and just moving my arm around.

Getting me probably a lot. In our program, we ask you guys to do a lot of things so you can get aches from just savages. So.

Right.

What's your mindset like going into this season for you?

My biggest thing I want to play. I mean, I have been out of baseball for years now, and the biggest thing I want to do is just be in that environment. I want to go and see. See the home runs being hit by our guys and then seeing our shutout innings and coming in and closing the door. And I just want to be in that environment, be around the guys, be with the people who have the same goal, same common goal that I do and taking us to Enid. And I. I just cannot wait to be back on the field.

That's awesome. You're part of. You're part of our leadership council, so you're one of the 12 members of that. And it' because of the leadership skills that you've been able to show even though you haven't been the guy on the field. And so I think that's. That's a really, really interesting and special thing about you. What's been you. What's been your experience like with this team this year in the. In the culture and, you know, coaches and. And what's been your experience? What's it. What's it been like?

It's different over here. Like, it's A different kind of group. It's nothing that I've ever been a part of or not remotely close to anything that I've been a part of before. The guys on the team, I mean, they are willing to drop what they're doing to go and help you out. And that's what I respect the most out of all of them and how they're devoting their time to you. And they're always willing to help and to say the, well, the least for you guys, I mean, I mean you're here with 50, what, 54, 55 guys on the team and I mean you're putting in your A game every single day. And I respect that so much. For all of you guys and fellow teammates, I know they respect it as well. So I mean, just your guys ability to just help out as much as you guys do is just huge for the program.

Appreciate that. Thank you. You know, we talk a lot about stacking bricks. What are some, some of the things you've learned since you've got gotten here?

I think a way to think of it is one day at a time. That's the biggest thing I've taken away is that you're not going to have a great day. Every single day. You're going to have those down days and those small moments that might linger throughout your head for the rest of the day. But the biggest thing is just one day at a time, taking it step by step and stacking those bricks like we do.

Do you think that being a part of our program has impacted your development in a positive way or in a negative way?

Positive. Absolutely. 100% right.

It's, it's kind of the iron sharpens iron, you know, philosophy that we have. It's not going to be perfect. Every day is not going to be sunny in 75. There's going to be challenging days, there's going to be failure. There's going to be times where you have an event and you don't respond the way you probably should. So therefore you don't get the outcome that you were hoping for. You know, it's, it's not a perfect world, but what we found and what we try to model here, and like I said, we're not perfect with it, but it's, it's the effort piece. Like if you put in effort in anything and it really does mean anything, anything at all, if you willing to be disciplined enough to put in effort consistently, you will get better at whatever it might be be. It can be as simple as vacuuming. You know, Jeff, do you do a lot of vacuuming?

A lot of sweeping.

A lot of sweeping.

Okay.

Well, you know with the vacuuming you can make sweet lines on carpet. You know, you just got to put a little, little extra time and it can look like a baseball field, you know, so.

Exactly. Stripe it.

Which then makes me think of. Yeah, there's plenty of. There's a saying out there that says like, surround yourself with people. That'll help bring out the best in you. And I think that coach Modaf does an incredible job. He brings in as many like minded people as we can get into our program and that kind of contagious proximity just starts building and bricks start getting stacked and it leads to really successful team. But it's not perfect. And we don't ever sit here thinking this is. We're so far ahead of the curve or anything else. We're just trying to put in massive effort and label that as. It's process based and the results will take care of themselves. If we put that effort in. Much like your journey in rehabbing, you just gotta stack those bricks and know that, that through that effort you're gonna have some, some results come out of that. And the harder you work towards things and the more intentional you are typically the better those results are. And that's a, that's a great metaphor for life and you've learned a lot. You do some outside work beyond just the team, which is really unique as well. Would you like to speak in some generalizations on that as well?

Sure, yeah. I. Well, not currently at the moment, but in the past for a little over a year I've done insurance sales for a state farm agent locally in Waterford and started in my junior year, senior year of high school I was doing co op so I'd leave school a little bit early and go into work for a couple hours a day and five days a week and make some money there. And that's taught me a lot really. I guess talking. I feel like anybody comes up to me, I can.

Communication.

Huge.

Huge. What, what's your long term aspirations in baseball and do you, do you have them in the insurance world too?

For baseball, I mean, I just want to keep going. I don't, I don't want to put a limit to where I'm at. I don't want to, you know, cat myself under ceiling. So I, I will let the game take me wherever it goes. I'm not opposed to any, any opportunities, any options, anything like that. That. Not necessarily, not necessarily looking to go into insurance. I love the business Side of. Side of things. I'm huge into it. I've done stuff in high school, if anybody's familiar with deca, it's a huge part of what I was into in high school. And I've kind of surrounded myself with that idea of business solutions and coming up. Up with the. The goal for. For a business or a company.

An entrepreneur.

That's right.

Love that. We talk a lot about legacy in our program, leadership and things like that. And I believe that we're all going to leave a legacy. It's kind of up to us if it's going to be positive or negative. What. What do you hope that you leave behind after your couple years here?

It kind of reminds me of when we were going through the slides, just that on or on Monday for leadership. How Sunday? Sunday, yes. We had Bob stand up and he was naming off all these people and going through. Did they have a positive legacy? Yeah, they absolutely did. And I just want to be one of those guys that a couple years down the road, you can put me up on the screen and might have a guy who's still there from when I was playing, and they can point and they can tell you all about what I did for them or for the team even, and just have a positive memory.

And that legacy goes far beyond the slides or the PowerPoints, the presentations. It goes when 10 years down the road, you do something successful either on the field or off the field in the business world, those teammates maybe will see it on social media or somewhere else in the paper, whatever it might be, and they see it and they're like, yeah, I played with him, and they tell somebody else about it. That's kind of the legacy piece. And like I said, we all are leaving a legacy, and you want to try to do as much as you can to help others, and you really personify that in a lot of ways, and it's. It's super appreciated, you know. Coach Allen, what. What have you seen? Even though you work with our position players, we're still together a lot of the time, especially in the fall, you know, have. What have you seen with Aiden's growth? And, you know, I think one of the big words that we talked about was like, resilience today. You know, what. What have you noticed?

What?

Well, a couple of things that I've noticed about Aiden is the infectious energy he brings to the field every day, even if you're recovering from a surgery. You know, you were one of the first guys that I really noticed that was going out of their way to Go above and beyond to help your teammates, or even me coaching it at first base. You know, the first. First couple games I was there, I didn't even know anybody's names and didn't have to say anything to you or anything. And you were just at the top step of the dugout. If we had equipment, you were on the move, running out there, grabbing it from.

That's. That's incredible. And. But from my perspective, that didn't start when you first got here. Did you know that?

What do you mean by that?

Well, it was. I looked at it as more of a process. You. You were not necessarily the. The outgoing leader when you first got here. And I think it was because of. Of newness and then also trying to find, you know, what's my identity here, you know, because often in sports, when we talk about leadership, it gets framed as the. The best players are the leaders or the oldest players or the ones that put up the biggest stats. They have the loudest voice. And we try to frame it here that everybody has a voice and everybody has a chance to be a leader. And sometimes I think you've really come into your role as the. As our fall season and spring season have been rolling at this point, I think you've really come into your role of that. Because he's probably gotten. Or you've gotten a little more comfortable.

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, just the core principles of our program, selflessness, that's right at the forefront of pretty much everything that I've seen, you know, do. So I think that just being able to lead by example, even if you're not a vocal leader among the team at times, I think just setting that groundwork of showing, hey, I'm one of the older guys here, but I'm not too big to go and help somebody out if they need help. I think that's extremely admirable.

I mean, thank you.

Yeah, yeah, no problem.

Has your mom been. Been your biggest mentor and advisor and all that?

Yeah, 100.

And how often do you talk to her?

Every day.

Okay. Via text or phone.

Usually text.

Okay.

We'll call here and there. But yeah, we text every day. And she's just. Couldn't ask for anything more, really. She's just helped me.

So full of advice. Do you. Are you pretty on open and honest? When you've had to struggle through stuff, you just let her know, hey, hey, it's not so great right now, or things like that. And she comes back with, don't be soft. Figure it out. Everything's gonna be great. Well, I. I appreciate you being on the podcast and in the WLZ Studios. Hopefully you've enjoyed yourself.

Thank you.

Appreciate you being here as well, Jeff. I think a solid quote to kind of wrap up your your journey journey to this point right now is success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. And that's something that Winston Churchill said. So very powerful stuff. Make winning in life your habit, not your goal. Remember, excellence is a daily practice, not just a prize. Build great habits and practices that serve you so you can serve others. And don't forget to cherish the small moments they pass by in a blink of an eye. Until next time, thank you to all of our listeners. Ultimately, we're all playing a game. We can't win, so why not play it to the utmost? Go all in and go Stars. Coach Cutscorner is recorded live in the WLNZ Studios, with the Dalian, Lowry and James providing engineering and production assistance. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today's podcast, please share it and follow us on all forms of social media. Our program has been built and maintained with the help of many great people. If you want to be part of our mission, you can donate using the link in the show notes below. You can learn more@coachcutter.com and more about our team@lccstars.com see you next time.

This is WLNZ Lansing. You're listening to LCC Connect, a weekly program that features the voices, Vibes and vision of Lansing Community College. To find out more about LCC Connect programs or to listen on demand, Visit us@lccconnect.org LCC Connect, voices, vibes, Vision.