Hey, you.

You're tuned in to the Skirts up show with Samantha and Melissa.

Join our mission to normalize failure, but still uncover the positives at every twist and turn.

Skirts up, but keep your panties on.

What's up, Skirts up squad?

It's Samantha and Melissa.

We are here today to share some.

Of our new friends with you.

Yeah, we're really excited.

We say new, but we've actually known them for, what, how long now?

Oh, my God.

Almost a year.

Oh, I don't know.

It was like the end of.

Towards the end of, like, 2024.

Yeah.

Yeah, because you're Britney, isn't it?

Brittany, who was like, hey, I went and did this awesome photo shoot with this awesome.

It's called One soul photography.

They do boudoir photo shoots, among other things.

And, oh, she just raves about them.

Well, she looked so good.

And then she shared it with us.

And it's like, you should do it.

And.

And then, Sam, you were like, melissa, power boost.

Yeah.

Like, because you had done one once before, kind of.

Yeah.

Not with them.

Yeah.

But yeah, I'd done one kind of similar.

Like with Simon.

We did a photo shoot together that was a little spicy risque.

Yeah.

Wasn't a great experience.

So I guess I was.

But hearing her rave about it.

Yeah.

Might have been what made you go, oh, it can be different.

Yeah.

But also, really, when you're on, like, we got invite.

I had gotten invited a long time ago because of Brittany, to their Facebook page, like, where you see women, like, you know, get their photos back and then typing about how it made them feel and, you know, what they just felt from those photos and that.

That day.

And it really clicked when, you know, you were looking at Britney's photos at one of our events that, oh, photos really can give you that boost that you need.

And from there, I was like, oh, you're doing it.

She was so.

It was really swee.

Because you really wanted me to use this.

Saw that I wasn't really loving myself.

My body, for sure.

Like, it's true.

I don't love my body the way that I should, but I should be so grateful for so many things that it offers.

And I learned that when I was so You.

Anyway, I'm getting ahead.

Sam was like, melissa, you've got to go do this.

You need to do these photos.

And I told you.

I was like, please don't let Brent go.

And I think you were kind of offended.

No, I was like, well, I wasn't planning on taking him.

It didn't offend Me, but it kind of was like, oh, she really wants me to do this for me.

And I like that.

I was trying not to be pushy, but I was like, oh, I hope she's not mad at me, but I'm serious.

Don't bring Brett.

I hope you're not mad at me, but I'm so serious.

And not bring Brett.

Well, Brett would have been fun.

And it's true, though.

I would have looked to him, wanting to, like, be like, oh, what do you like?

And he's sweet.

He.

At the.

Like, in many ways, he would have probably been like, well, what do you like?

I don't know how.

The truth is, I know had I brought Simon and we are in a very healthy spot and healthy relationship, I would have asked him, I don't know, what do you like?

Like, which ones look good to you?

And I wouldn't have been honest with myself.

You're like, this is for you.

Yeah.

It would have been more of like, oh, I want to make sure he likes it and not, I like what I'm seeing.

So that's.

Yeah.

I think for in any direction, that's kind of where that goes.

But I think you guys will really love this episode because it's the real version of people like, you know, these.

This couple behind the scenes and behind the lens and knowing them as a person and then really how their mission just kind of came about and how it is what it is today, and it really is a power booster.

Women empowerment.

Like, it's just.

They also do it for men, too.

They do, and they really are big on.

It's.

It's.

They'll never say, hey, let's make you look sexy.

It's only about what makes you feel good.

Do you want to feel sexy?

Do you want to feel strong?

Do you want to feel seen?

Like, what do you.

What do you want out of this?

Yeah.

And, like, clarifying, like, what that looks like to you, because what looks sexy to you.

Exactly.

Is not what my brain might think as sexy.

Exactly.

So it's like getting to know each individual person and helping them bring out their vision for themselves.

And I just think that that's so cool.

Yeah.

They're.

They're pretty much miracle workers, so you.

Guys will love it.

Yeah.

But, Melissa, do you have a fail before we scoot on?

Yeah, it's just a cute little silly one.

But it actually happened the day that we were interviewing David and Jill.

Oh.

It's not a fail, per se.

It's just something I like.

I have, like.

I swear George is the worst.

Constant allergies.

We've already talked about this, but Sam let me know.

And I'm like, what the.

You never told me this.

She was like, melissa sniffs all the time.

And because they were like, if you need to cut something, cut it.

Maybe I'll.

I might cough and cut it.

And Sam was like, yeah, we'll cut it.

Don't worry.

I'm snuff.

I'm snuffling.

I'm cutting.

Melissa's sniffles out all the time.

And I was like, what?

And she's like, yeah, it's this randomly right in the microphone.

I was like, oh, that's so embarrassing.

It's true.

I have allergies, like, constantly.

But it was funny because David was like, just next time someone says that, just be like, do you want to.

What do you say?

Oh, I don't remember, but he made a coke joke.

This makes me want to, like, type up something on Reddit and be like, am I the asshole?

You're not an asshole.

You're only an asshole if you offend or hurt someone.

No, but am I the asshole for not telling you?

And then randomly.

Maybe a tiny bit.

You could have probably told me, like, in the past so that you wouldn't have had to edit so much.

You're an asshole to yourself.

Oh, geez.

Yeah, my bad, my bad.

It's all good.

It's all good.

I didn't mean it in, like, an unloving way.

No, you're just like, this is a thing that happened.

It's fine.

It's fine.

And I'm like, oh, well, I can fix that.

Actually, I'll be more cognizant.

It's hilarious.

We learn every day, don't we?

We do.

I had a situation not too long ago, but kind of a while ago at this point, where I was communicating with this.

This friend, and we were talking about getting together for.

They wanted help branding.

And I was, you know, thinking about doing some, like, mixing and trying to get, like, you know, help each other, right?

Get, like, the vision, spit, word ball, you know, with each other.

And I helped them with what I promised, and I never heard anything back from this.

This friend.

And I really thought that we had kind of gained a friendship.

So I.

I tried.

I tried to follow up and be like, hey, like, just wanted to know when we can schedule, you know, the thing that you promised me and, you know, get that worked out.

And I didn't get a response.

And so then I'm like, well, Jesus.

I just feel like I'm writing this person off.

I'm writing this person off.

Like, I feel like I'm being used, and I just feel like I'm getting used all the time.

What does that say about my character to feel like that?

But yeah, that's how I was feeling.

Exactly.

It's totally valid.

But I'm glad that you said, like, sometimes we have to look inside and say, wait, is this something that I'm projecting?

So what you did, what she did was really actually commendable.

She was like, melissa, I'm about to write this person off.

Can you read these texts and tell me, like, is this okay that I'm jumping in?

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I said, well, what do you see?

What do you hear when you read this?

And I was like, okay, I do hear.

Well, first, I didn't really pick up on what she was picking up on, but she's like, well, don't you hear this?

That I was promised this one thing?

And I was like, oh, yeah, they did actually say that.

That it was a mutual.

Right.

And then she's like, well, it's been this many weeks, I haven't heard anything.

I said, well, did you tell them?

Because this person can have a bad memory.

And she's like, well, I feel like I did.

And so I'm scrolling through the text and I was like, I'm actually not seeing it that way.

And I see that you were trying to be very fluff, fluff, fluff it up and be nice in your text.

But it wasn't direct.

Yeah.

And so I was like, well, why don't you just be direct and say, hey, I want this thing that we talked about?

And she was really scared.

Yeah, I was like, what?

I mean, I just feel like it's in the text and like, I feel like an asshole being like, hey, this is what we discussed.

When are we meeting up again?

And I don't know, maybe that's not the.

I mean, you were right.

I finally did just like, straight out, like, ask, hey, when are we scheduling xyz?

We do need to finish what we agreed upon, do this thing, and they want to respond.

You're right.

I forgot we're going to do that.

Let's.

Let's figure that out right now.

Yeah.

So has it come through yet?

Let me just say.

No, it hasn't.

It will.

But I.

At least there was a response and not like a blown off.

Yeah, you weren't blown off.

This person still likes you and wants to make it work.

I think so.

For sure.

For sure.

So yeah, just a little.

A little fail of just feeling like I'm gonna write people off real fast and then being reminded like, no, let's be clear with our words.

Which tends to be a big message in a lot of our episodes recently.

It does, actually.

I want to say one thing before we hand it off to our episode with David and Jill.

Someone recently came to me and was like, I've been listening to your guys episodes, and I feel like the beginning when you always say, what's a fail?

They were like, it seems kind of harsh.

And I said, well, okay, in our first season, we talk a lot about why we do that.

And they're like, oh, I probably missed that.

So I just want to reiterate.

Yeah.

The reason we talk about failing is not because we're like, hey, let's focus.

On the negative and let's talk about ourselves.

Like, no, exactly.

That is not at all what we're doing.

We are trying to, one, break the stereotype of only sharing our perfect facade on social media or different things like that.

But two, reminding each other that, like, we failed because we tried something different and we can actually succeed through learning from those fails.

Right.

You fail to succeed.

If you're not failing, you're not going to succeed.

You're not giving yourself a chance.

So, yeah, it.

I mean, you can read our mission.

It's to normalize failure because we all have it and it's healthy and it's normal.

And we.

What we see on social media with, like, these perfect houses, when there's five kids in the house and, you know, these women who have time to do their hair and makeup just perfect every single day, like, that's not normal everyday life for everyone.

And so having just those standards on social media, it's really harmful, in my opinion.

So I feel like that's what we've aimed to exactly try and eliminate is everything that we post is raw, is real, and that's just who we are.

And, you know, if you want to see the perfect, then that's not us.

I don't think that's what the person was saying.

I think they were just worried that we were just like, sound.

It sounded harsh.

That was the word.

They were very kind about it.

And they're like, it's just harsh.

And so I just want to remind everybody we are not at all trying to focus on the negative here.

Yeah.

We are growing reflection as humans.

That's right, Reflection.

All right, so let's get into it.

Yeah.

Here's Jill and David, and we are excited to learn about them.

That's right.

So this evening, we are sitting here later than usual with Jill and David.

So thank you guys for joining us today.

We have been waiting for this for months.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

Absolutely.

Yeah, we're super excited.

And thanks for coming to our studio.

Absolutely.

So, wait, I sign.

Y' all are gonna have to come to us.

I'm not gonna make them do that.

I will.

I like it over here better.

But I was gonna say just to kind of, like, catch everyone up and myself.

Cause I don't really remember.

How did it even come up?

Oh, I know how we met you guys.

That's what I was gonna tell everybody, our audience.

Okay.

One of Sam's friends had come over and done a boudoir shoot with you guys.

And so when did she tell you about that?

Was that at.

That wasn't at the karaoke thing?

That's not the first time you heard?

No, no, no, no, no, no.

Like, I don't remember when she told you.

I don't know.

But obviously she's told us multiple times.

So, anyway, we heard about you guys.

She was like, you, they are amazing.

And then Sam had been to a boudoir shoot before.

Kinda.

Not like this.

Not like this.

Not as awesome.

I'm sure.

I had never been.

And I was just like.

Sam was like, should we go and just kind of see what it's like and show the masses?

And I was like, okay.

And I was very nervous.

Well, we keep talking.

You're always downing yourself.

And we keep talking about, like, oh, we should be positive about ourselves.

Positive.

And then I was like, boudoir women empowerment.

Exactly.

Exactly.

So here we are.

Hi, Jill.

Hey, David.

Hey, guys.

Hey.

Hey.

Glad you're here.

All right.

Yeah.

So tell us, like, how did you guys get into this?

Tell us a little bit about your backstory.

I guess it started when.

How long do we have writing?

When I was born.

I'm just kidding.

Yeah.

So literally, it started a couple years after my ex bought me a birthday present.

It was a camera.

Okay.

I was about to say, where are we going with this?

This is fun.

I remember him saying that she bought.

Me a camera, and it was a prosumer camera as an icon, a D90.

And it didn't come with any extras.

It was just the camera with the lens.

And.

And she thought that was the end of the gift.

What?

She didn't know.

That was kind of a.

That was kind of a down payment on a whole bunch of stuff.

And that was.

I don't know.

20 years ago.

Wow.

So fast forward and we're sitting here today and we got, you know, equipment out the years and.

And we do hundreds of sessions a year and.

Okay, but why does she get you?

That's what I was going to ask.

Have you shown interest?

Like what?

Well, I.

In one of my past lives, I was a reporter for the Orlando Sentinel.

Before that, I went to University of Florida and had to take a photojournalism class in order to become a reporter because you can't rely on a photographer to show up at the scene of the crime or whatever.

So they would give me a little sure shot to carry around in case a photographer didn't make it.

Okay.

And I don't mean to diss all the photographers out there who don't show up.

It's just, you know, you don't get calls, traffic or whatever.

Yeah, but.

Yeah, so I would carry a camera around with me and pop shots.

Never could afford an actual camera myself, as on a reporter's salary.

And that's always had that interest.

And I think that she knew that I had a photography bug in me because if we went on vacation, we came back with all these photos that were like, of, you know, these, you know, angular photos of buildings.

Yeah.

And, you know, interesting.

Very artistic.

And no pictures of us, you know, in front of some, you know, important.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So my travel photography sucked.

And so that's where I guess my interest became apparent.

So she bought me that camera.

I started shooting architecture and Buckhead bugs, animals.

I started shooting homeless people in midtown, which was really cool.

A lot of.

There's a lot of soul and a lot of history in the lines in someone's face.

And then I decided I wanted more pieces of equipment.

I kept, you know, looking at things and everything was expensive for the camera.

And after I bought a flash, I bought another lens.

It became apparent to me that this was going to be an expensive hobby.

And I'm a cheap person, and I can't just go out and just splurge on myself like that, which is something that we preach to a lot of our clients now about splurging on oneself.

So.

So I had to justify.

You just weren't there yet.

Wasn't there yet.

I had to justify being able to spend money on equipment, which means I had to make money with my camera.

Okay, so how do you make money with.

With your camera?

You.

You do some research and figure out what do people do to make money?

Well, one, they.

They can.

They can become a commercial photographer.

They can become a Wedding photographer.

And those are kind of the only two things that I could even even think about.

Maybe portrait photography.

I'm not sure that even like resonated with me.

So I became a.

I became a wedding photographer, a wannabe.

In order to shoot weddings, you had to have pictures of, have pretty pictures of brides.

I didn't have any brides.

How am I gonna get my first bride if I don't have any pictures of all of them?

All have pictures of are old guys in parks in midtown.

It's that age old story.

Like, you can't do anything with this unless you have experience.

But how do you get experience if nobody will hire you?

That's exactly right.

It's like with any big endeavor, you sit around say, how are we going to tackle the saying, well, first you get some money?

Yes.

We all know where to start when you said that.

Yes, I'm having a hard time investing on myself.

You know, I have to make money.

My next thought, like my initial thought was, yeah, that's great, but now you have to invest in yourself again to actually teach yourself how to be well enough to make money.

Yeah, exactly right.

So my first, my first endeavor was to go out and find someone to, to be a model for me.

I bought a wedding dress off of davidsbridal.com for 300 bucks, did a shoot in it, box it back up, and returned it.

And that's how I got my first bridal pictures.

And I used those to get my first super cheap wedding.

And, and I did that.

And I learned right away that I didn't charge nearly enough for my time and all that.

So any fast forward, you know, it was just kind of a process of, of getting, getting skilled, getting.

Getting a lot of people in front of the camera.

I started hiring people off of Model Mayhem and One Model Place to model for me.

And this is getting to the question you're going to be asking in a little bit, which is how Jill and I met.

I had a studio created in my garage, had a couple lights and stuff, and learning how to use all my equipment.

I was hiring these ladies off of one Model Place and Model Mayhem.

You're a model?

Yeah.

So that's part of my story.

That's right.

Okay.

I'm about to end up David.

Pause.

Jill, what made you look into being model?

Full of the model.

Yeah.

So that's one thing.

But also like, is that part of your journey that led you here?

I take it.

So my background.

I'm a licensed doctor of physical therapy.

What?

Yeah.

So that's my background.

And I was going to the gym.

I was feeling good about myself, so I wanted to, like, just dabble into, like, editorial modeling and stuff like that.

And then so I put myself out onto Model Mayhem, and then that's where David had contacted me.

So we did a session together, and I'm not good with stories, so here we are.

Well, what were you thinking?

Like, how many different, like, jobs had you been on before you, like, met him?

Just one.

One.

Oh, wow.

Her girlfriend took pictures of her.

Yeah.

To use Model Mayhem.

And I found her then, and I think two or three photographers had contacted her at that point.

And I was going to be at the first shoot and had a hiccup, and I had to cancel my session with her, and.

And a guy who later became a good friend of ours booked her and.

And took her out.

That's a.

That's a whole WASP story to tell.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I just was kind of, like, just dabbling in front of the camera while practicing with my license, and.

And then I was just like, well, this is a lot of fun.

And then David asked me to shoot a wedding with him, and I was just like, you know, I really wanted to.

Oh, yeah.

I skipped a whole bunch tonight.

Yeah.

Okay, so.

And.

And then our kid was 18.

Wait a second.

Something's not making sense here.

How our stories is, like, I'll be.

Like, hi and goodbye.

Actually, no.

This is so cute.

Okay, in that case, Jill, pause.

David, go.

I was gonna be like, wait, just go.

Go back to the thing that David wanted you to say, but okay, David, go.

Yeah, so.

So I'm skipping about 200 shoots that I did in my garage with ladies off of Model Mayhem.

One model plays because they don't matter.

Jill is the one that does.

There's an interesting little footnote there.

And I like to tell people occasionally that Jill was the last model I hired, and she was the first one that I kissed.

A.

Here we are.

No, here we are, she says.

So anyway, so, yeah, we just.

I hired her to.

To do a specific shoot I had in my head.

I used to be very methodical about my shoots.

I was.

I had exactly the look in my mind that I wanted for whatever I was creating.

I was not out here to serve a client.

I was here to, like, serve my vision.

And I would sit in front of the computer with Excel up, and I would just like, visualize all these shots and.

And the lighting and.

And the outfit and all that stuff.

And I would just make shot after shot in.

In Excel, I Print it all out.

And, and I would go over the shot list with whoever and, and get him to get some pieces of wardrobe, whatever it was we were shooting in.

So anyway, yeah, so I had, that was my whole shtick and, and I had pretty much polished that by the time I got Jill into the studio and I had this one shoot in mind, it went really well.

And obviously I'm kind of skipping over all the, the, the chemistry and all that, but we ended up shooting together over the course of a year.

And in that course of a year, she wanted to get behind the camera and learn photography.

And I remember with the time that she said, would you show me, I got this little Nikon consumer.

Would you show me how to use this thing?

I said, I'm really interested in knowing rather than being in front of the camera, I wanted to start learning behind the camera.

And so I asked him, I said, would you show me how to use a camera?

And not like automatic, like actually like learning how to use the camera.

And he got so nervous.

It was so cute.

No, no, no.

I like Jill's story.

No, Jill's.

So, so we met at Roswell Mill.

So fun.

We read.

We met at Roswell Mill and she had this little red Nikon, you know, like a digital pop up camera, you know, a point and shoot and it had a few extra features in it.

The only camera I had used that was a digital camera was my D90.

I knew it really well.

Okay, so we're sitting here on this bench and she hands me this little red camera.

And I know my camera really well, but I'm, I'm like trying to figure out how to use it while at the same time I'm thinking about how much I like her.

That's adorable.

And it reminds me of a story my son told me when he was in, I don't know, middle school.

He calls me up.

He was living with his mom in Colorado.

He calls me up and says, dad, I have a problem.

I said, what's your problem?

He goes, well, there's this girl, she's like my best friend.

We've been together and we've been in school.

We've been best friends since grade school.

And I can't talk to her anymore.

I said, why not?

He goes, because I think I like her.

That's cute.

And he just like, he had known her, he had played ball with her and like going walks and hanging out and watching TV together.

And one day something snapped and he was connected to her.

And now he, he had lost all his Words and didn't know what to say to her.

So you also couldn't figure out the camera.

That was kind of what had happened.

I don't think I learned anything that day, but it was a lot of fun.

Yeah, I, I, I was, like, nervous as a cat.

I'm a whole.

Did you learn that he liked you?

When did you.

Well, we pick up on having just like this mutual connection.

Connection.

Yeah.

It just, there was no, like, oh, I think we're going on a date.

It was just kind of, just, things just started happening.

I just want to be very beautiful.

For all you romantics.

Yes.

So when Jill arrived for the very first shoot at my house, I, she pulled it in the driveway.

I went out there to meet her, and I'm a hugger.

So we hugged as I am.

We hugged for about, I don't know, three seconds too long.

And that was it.

The first time you met.

Interesting.

And neither one, I mean, we had.

Already communicated a fair amount talking about the shoot that we're going to do.

So we met, sort of felt like we knew each other a bit.

So we hugged.

And it was just a little bit of an, an, an, an extended hug.

And that was just kind right away, my ears like, oh, a little warm.

Yeah, yeah.

And then we go to walk in the house, and I had steps coming to the house.

I'm a gentleman.

And she was going up the steps.

I put my hand in the small of her back as she was going upstairs.

Right.

And that ruined me.

I got me.

Oh, that's like, that's the one thing I really remember.

And then we're sitting in front of.

The computer, such a gentleman about, like, pulling the doors open and just guiding and, and yeah.

So you don't, you don't find that very often.

Yeah.

And it's like just sitting for the computer screen, talking about what we're going to do and thinking about the shoot and everything and just being that close, you know that I think all the little bells and whistles kind of were ringing.

Yeah.

You were Twitter painted.

Yeah.

No, but I can appreciate something so small, like being like, oh, that's what I remember.

Because when Simon and I talk about, someone asked, well, how did you know that you liked him?

And I was like, oh.

I started speaking about a concern I had about my child.

And he put his phone down and, like, paid attention.

And I was like, yeah, I can't really tell you anything other than I remember.

He put his phone down and gave me eye contact and listened.

And sometimes it's the Little things that mean the most.

Yeah, it's that connection.

But so you guys start shooting together.

He teaches you how to use the camera.

How.

I guess I have multiple questions.

I guess I was going to ask what led you guys into branching into this particular niche.

It's a pretty short story.

Okay.

Yeah.

So we.

I had.

We.

We traveled around the Southeast quite a bit shooting Jill, and she was also learning photography as we went.

And she was learning photography fast enough that I asked her if she wanted to.

Had you shot Al at that point yet?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I just sort of dropped a shoot in our.

She had.

We had a.

A.

That was our gym trainer.

We.

We had a personal trainer that we both used at the gym that we both went to.

And she wanted to practice on him, and he was looking for some.

Some pro shots.

So I had the studio set up, and I.

I couldn't stay and help her do it.

I just sort of dropped it in her lap.

And so she had Just figure all this equipment out by herself.

I was like, all right, this is.

This is learning opportunity is now I have a person in front of.

And I.

You know, he's very kind.

He.

This is his first time in front of the camera as well.

And he knew that this was my first time, like an actual session, but that was my first time shooting one person in a studio.

But David had asked me.

Well, so it was after that I asked Jill because she had actually done quite well.

It was a really great shot.

Did you say accidentally did quite well?

Actually, I was like.

Which is also a little funny.

Cause it's like.

Actually, I was shocked.

Shocked how.

Well, she.

No, just kidding.

That's my lazy tongue, actually.

She did well.

She did quite well.

I was.

I was shocked because working with Studio Light.

And I will say that knowing how little, you know, when you start out like that, it is accidental.

That makes that.

That even got a shot that was cool.

And then you're like, okay, how the hell did I create that?

And then it's backing into it all and trying.

If you try to recreate, that's when you figure out how little you know how to do it again.

That makes sense.

But anyway, so.

So.

But she was very voracious about learning, and.

And she had just an amazing appetite for learning.

And I could say something once, and I'm used to having to repeat myself, and she would be impatient because if I tried to say it again, because she had already heard that and she'd already moved on.

She was already processed that.

Was already.

Already applying that to the next thing that she was trying to figure out.

And so I asked her if she wanted to shoot a wedding with me.

Was she taking.

Were you taking classes from anybody else or any other way?

Okay.

No, no.

She's a super fast learner.

She's smart.

Yeah.

And.

And.

And she doesn't say what she's learned, so I never know if she already knows something, you know, So I find myself saying a lot of unnecessary things.

But yeah, so I asked her.

She wanted to shoot a wedding with me.

I was shooting weddings pretty regularly at the time, and I was hiring.

I had several second shooters that I would bring with me.

And they're all sort of like, not really heavily committed to the enterprise at all.

You know, they were just kind of there for 50 bucks or whatever.

And I asked Jill, she, like, to shoot this wedding with me, and she was like, oh, no, I just want to do this for fun.

I convinced her to shoot a wedding with me in Rome, Georgia.

We went there and she literally fell in love.

Fell in love?

Yeah.

I was like, oh, my gosh, what am I going to do?

I.

Now I'm doing physical therapy and photography.

A career.

Okay.

Did you fall in love with the wedding scene in general or, like, figuring out the.

I specifically loved doing details of the wedding and then the happiness and the candidates of, like, the grandparents holding hands.

And so that's the stuff that I really liked.

And then it got to, you know, the bride being super happy.

And I love doing just like, the bride portraits.

It's being in the moment, but you're.

You're also apart from the moment.

And you've got this piece of equipment in your hands that you have to be responsive with.

Like.

Right.

You don't.

You just get one chance to get a shot.

Yeah.

And to keep that in mind while you're saying, oh, my God, she's so lovely.

Oh, I got her.

Yeah.

Snap, tap.

And.

And she's really great at.

At keeping her mind on her task and still taking in everything around her.

She's hyper focused on everything all at once.

Oh, that's a talent.

And that's how I'm the shiny ball still in the studio, because I'm bouncing and you are.

You really are.

And also.

Okay, so just to fast forward a little bit to with your shoot with me, you.

I remember, David, you have, like, all these artistic things going on, and you have beautiful shot, and then you just say, okay, Jill, go have a minute.

And you just go in there and you kind of, like, feel it out.

I don't know how to explain it.

But you really do do the detail, though.

But you do really do do.

We don't do the doo doo here.

That's kind of gross.

But you like what people will notice when they come in?

What y' all will notice, like, when they come in is that it's always Jill's the butt person.

And like, that's a detail.

That's a specific detail of the body.

So true.

I like to take the detail, like the closer up shots with, you know, the curvature of the woman, or let it be the bust or the booty or the hand running down, you know, your neck or your ring by your face.

David is so good about, like you said, the artistic shots.

Like who the studio lights, all the setup, like, all the gear is here because of him and his knowledge of just creating.

That's amazing.

The just craziness.

So.

Yeah.

And again, you self taught.

Self looked up taught.

You didn't take a course, take a class.

We didn't go to college or.

Or anything for photography.

I mean, I.

I took a class in college one semester as a photojournalism class, which is completely different from this.

It's natural light.

It's getting pictures of, you know, whatever in the moment.

In the moment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

But being in a studio and learning the light, you know, with studio lights and working on a camera that's not automatic, and making sure all your settings are how you want your portrait to be.

But there's always learning.

So even though we know what we're doing right now, I mean, no matter what career you're in, you should never stop learning what you're doing.

I like that.

Yeah.

And it's just so important.

And it's fun.

And it's fun to learn new things, to create new art with women that come through here.

Because, I mean, as you know, compared to your session, both of them are different.

Yes.

You know, Very true.

Yeah.

So what made you guys go, we're done with weddings now let's do the more sexy photos.

Ooh.

I also have one more question that's an in between one.

How long did you start after you started that first wedding?

I'm guessing you started working together.

How long did you work together before you then also beside it a lake.

So we shot that first wedding and we were on the road to another wedding.

I was doing about 25 weddings a year.

Okay.

I were kind of in the middle of things.

And when she could go, she would.

When she could shoot a wedding, she would.

She would come help.

She was really interested in shooting weddings that were away games that were.

We got to go.

I like to travel, you know, I would too.

Yeah.

And so we were.

I don't know how.

How many weddings we had behind us at this point.

It wasn't very many.

A handful.

And we're on our road.

We're on the road to Asheville, North Carolina, to shoot a wedding.

And I'm already, I.

I'm in the moment and I'm already thinking, you know, six months down the road, a year down the road, I'm.

I'm always like out in the future somewhere in my.

And yeah, I'm never.

Yeah, I am a planner.

Yeah.

Probably intensely so.

Okay.

Now that you mention it.

But so I'm thinking.

And I knew early on when I asked her to shoot her first wedding with me, that she had something and I was nurturing that as much as I could and pushing her along even faster than she wanted to go sometimes I feel like.

But we're on.

We're on the road at this point.

We were pretty much an item.

We're on our.

On the road to Asheville to shoot a wedding where.

And I said was.

So would you want to be my partner in photography?

And she was like, okay.

But she didn't say this.

I just assumed that she wouldn't want to be a creative working under the brand David Scruggs Photography.

Right.

I wouldn't want that if I was another person.

It makes sense.

Yeah.

That's actually really thoughtful of you.

It would need to be something that realize where she would feel like she had skin of the aim.

She owned it as well.

And.

And I.

And my.

My thought was that so if we could create something together that would survive, you know, for decades, then it would be something that she could wrap her head around and wrap her heart around and be immersed in.

It would be hers.

And so we were trying to think of names and we're playing around with names and turn on the radio.

We're with Amazon prime or whatever we were listening to.

And.

And Jack Johnson, a Jack Johnson song came on angel and lyrics in the song we share the same soul.

Oh, oh, oh.

And started playing with we share the same soul.

One soul.

That's like two hearts.

Two hearts, one soul.

And so.

And that's where the whole one.

That's where one soul came from.

2018.

Okay.

Is where we got One soul photography.

So the one soul is us together.

So two hearts, one soul.

And we incorporated that.

Yep.

Wonderful.

Yeah.

We paid a guy in overseas to make us a logo that's got the two hearts on the ends.

Cool.

Now there's some guy in India who's hijacked our logo and uses it.

Are you serious?

Nothing you can do about it.

They're on Instagram.

So I go find them Instagram and I say, this is not a once open bubble.

Oh, my gosh.

I wouldn't be able to let that go either.

2018's One Soul Photography, and then 2019 is when we started One Soul Boudoir.

Okay.

That's where.

Yeah, kind of.

I Forget when in 2019.

Did you guys get that?

He just talked a whole bunch and I was like, these are the dates now.

Yes.

The details.

Yeah.

Punchline.

I go straight into it.

Boom.

I like it.

But yeah.

So along the way, when we did weddings, we were still doing boudoir for like the brides and such.

Oh, okay.

And.

Oh, is this like day of.

Or like, just like they would book you for before the wedding.

Like, let's do something for the groom.

It would be before.

So they would hire us prior.

We would recession, and then we'd have like an album to give to their spouse.

Okay.

That's really cool.

It's a service that we would offer just more.

More stuff to offer as a gift for the.

For the smart.

For their partner.

Yeah.

Just trying to market your services in more ways.

Yeah.

We shot a wedding in Jamaica.

We were actually second shooters for a guy that I knew who was shooting weddings in Jamaica.

And Jill wanted to go overseas to shoot.

She wanted to do destination weddings.

So I contacted him, I said, do you need a second shooter?

And he was like, well, I guess, yeah, I could use one on this date.

And he's.

I can't pay much.

I said, no worries.

I said, we'll just come down and we'll second shoot.

So we went down there for 250 bucks and spent however many days down there and helped shoot the wedding and came back.

And then the bride really liked us.

Okay.

And.

And we reached out to her a bit later to see if she'd be interested in boudoir session.

And she lives in New York, so we ended up organizing boudoir session at the Latte Palace, New York over New Year's weekend.

And I don't know what year that was, but yes.

Shot a boudoir session there.

That was fun.

Okay.

As a post wedding gift.

Yeah.

So as we're.

As we're doing boudoir and weddings, I was just like, oh, I just love, you know, the.

Just.

How do I say this?

Like, when a woman is like, oh, I'm doing this for my spouse.

But when they see their photos and they're like, oh, my gosh, this is me.

Oh, my gosh, I'm so beautiful.

And, oh, my gosh.

And they realize that they're actually doing it for themselves.

But it's then a gift.

But that first thing of when a woman is like, oh, my.

I've never thought, felt like, or seen myself like that.

It's so powerful.

You just gave me chills because I feel that from you, that you love the empowerment of all of this for the women and making the people around you build them up.

And I feel it and I see it, and I felt that way.

So thank you.

But, yeah, so I was just like, I love.

I love doing this.

How can we.

How can we do more of this and less weddings?

And that was the hardest part until Covid hit and Covid hit and weddings stopped.

So we were 100% in for boudoir.

We were.

We had already started shooting.

That might have been the fast story, but.

No, this is good.

No, no, that's hard to tell.

We'd already started shooting boudoir more regularly at home.

We were working out of our house, and we had an extra bedroom that we set up for.

And everything that's in our boudoir suite over here.

Yeah.

Was in our extra.

Oh, my gosh.

And can you imagine?

And yeah.

And so we were shooting a lot of boudoir.

I think we shot where.

I think the first year that we really tried to do boudoir, we did, like 38 sessions that year on top of, I don't know, a couple dozen weddings.

And then Covid hit, like Jill said, and we kind of went into the first year of COVID all focused on boudoir because had nothing else to do.

It was amazing how many.

How many sessions we were able to book that first year in the middle of COVID we had 70 weddings out of our house, and we were like.

Oh, my gosh, this is.

This is going to be awful because, you know, with COVID and the precautions and the.

I said 70.

I said 70 weddings, 70 boudoirs.

I was going to ask if I.

Knew what you meant, but, yeah, everyone got bored.

And, like, you can't have groups things anymore, but you can do things with just you and a couple of people.

So we wore our mask, our makeup.

Artists wore mask, and then the client.

Got to take their masks off and yeah.

Oh, my God, I can breathe again.

So women at that time, you know, there's Not a whole lot of things that were opening, you know, jobs.

Everything was remote.

So women really needed to get out of the house.

Yeah.

And.

And if you think that we needed to expand, we need to express ourselves in a regular.

Every day.

Yeah, we sure did then.

Yeah.

So we were 100% in a mom cage.

Pre Covid.

During K.

During COVID you had, like, just.

Sam.

Well, I mean, I always had.

What do they call it?

What do they call it?

I always felt like we were living in like a divergent times, like with fractions or something.

Because it was like, oh, do you have the necessity job?

Or like, what was it called?

Are you a convenient.

Or what's it called?

No, I.

I just.

I don't know.

Anyway, like, your job was deemed important enough that, like, you had to come in and, like, work and so, like, I didn't have any time off.

Stuck with the kids.

Yeah, but.

But we.

I mean, we just shot out of the house and got so busy shooting out of the house.

We live in an HOA.

In a cul de sac.

70 sessions a year.

We were really concerned about.

Yeah.

Did anybody.

No one ever complain you had nice neighbors.

That's good.

That's good.

But we sort of had an awareness, I think quick enough that we acted.

And Joe really wanted to get out of the house and into a studio.

And we were walking around America Square one day and.

And we saw this for rent sign and it was just kind of serendipity.

And that happened and we just relocated from the house to Mary to Square for a year and a half.

Yeah.

Now, Jill said what gave her, like, the really big spark of like, yeah, this is what I want to shoot.

When did you, David, go, oh, yeah, no, you're right.

Like, I love this type of work.

Well, I mean, that's.

It was just an extension of the editorial photography that I was doing in the studio at home.

One of the things that I liked about.

About going into boudoir and early on it was all about just photographing women.

We weren't really focused on our view now, which we'll talk about later, but.

So I had just been focused on shooting women and.

But when I would bring someone into the house to do a shoot, I was kind of shooting it from the perspective of a guy.

So very.

I called it the Maxim shoot.

Okay.

Very, you know, very gratuitous.

You know, cheeky, sexy, all that stuff.

Sexy to you.

And when I really wanted.

And I was so.

And I was really aware of that.

You know, I really.

And I.

And I'm so I really wanted.

And I also looked down my nose at photographers who would just go out and get, you know, pretty young things and shoot them.

Like look, dude, you're.

You're not a great photographer.

She's just pretty.

Ah.

You know.

And people can't tell the difference between great photography and a pretty subject.

Yeah.

And so you get cred for.

Maybe cred isn't due.

So I really wanted to be.

Be much better than I really wanted to be creative and I wanted to be accomplished at what I'm doing and not caring about who's in front of the camera.

Anybody that walks in front of the camera, we can make them look like a million bucks.

And I get gratification knowing that we created something that's artistic.

Yes.

So shooting through all the editorial stuff.

Hated all my.

Everything I'd ever shot.

Hate all of it.

It was never anywhere near where I wanted to be.

Bringing Jill in.

Jill.

Then I looked at her as the person who could bring that feminine touch, that feminine view, that feminine perspective into a photos until I learned that Jill's likes all the detail stuff and the butts and all that.

And so.

But genuinely she is really fantastic at capturing these absolutely elegantly feminine portraits.

And I'm learning from her.

She's capturing the soul, I think.

Yeah.

I feel and what most important.

And what David said it was really important as you know, I mean you can put any so called model in front of any photographer and you know the model looks great because that's what she does that she's learned to pose the way she does.

But if you take any woman off the street, she's not gonna know how to pose, how to style.

Is she smiling?

Maybe she's awkward in front of the camera.

And now you have.

As a photographer you have to know how to pose, how to light.

Because not everybody's a size double zero.

And it's important to appreciate all women of all sizes.

Yeah.

Because everybody can look good.

Yeah.

I've really appreciated that.

And honestly.

So just for the listener's sake, they have.

They're.

How many square feet would you say this?

3,000 square feet.

I would say like half of it at least is where they do the shooting.

And it's a big like open space with lots of different props and stuff.

But when you first walk in, it's a gallery of beautiful women.

And I will tell you it's art.

Yeah.

And they.

Not all the women are that size 00.

They're beautiful and they're different and it's A whole spectrum.

They're moms, they're seniors.

One of the ladies in the entryway is a senior citizen.

She's a widow.

Most of them have more than one kid.

Yeah.

Stretch marks.

All of it.

Yeah, all of it.

So I really appreciate you saying, like, beauty.

It doesn't have to be that social construct or tied to it.

Yeah.

And it doesn't even have to be, like, boudoir on the feminine side.

You can do boudoir and be edgy.

You can do edgy and moody.

You can even be more masculine on what you're wearing.

And, you know, we talk about that all during a consultation.

We go anything from.

We have a Cloud nine set to a red room, a rain room, you know, portrait walls.

So it really just depends on, like, what you're looking for.

We're not telling you what you're looking for.

Right.

But we will guide you.

We'll guide you in saying, like, we think that this would be great for you.

Or when you're like, I don't like yellow, and be like, I think yellow.

Would actually look really great on you.

You guys put me in blue, and it did look so good.

So you might be surprised.

David, how did you get out of that mindset?

I, like, I really appreciate that you were, like, able to be aware of.

Yeah, I was shooting for, like, my own, like, what I thought was beautiful or ideal.

But how did you get out of that mind frame and start shooting for the client?

And what makes them feel all the feels?

Probably it's through.

It's a.

It's a seismic shift that happens.

It's like an earthquake in my.

In my journey.

And the tectonic plates move really, you know, dramatically, and.

And things get hurt and all that.

And I.

And my first challenge was to figure out how to use lighting and all that stuff.

I had a client in front of me, a client as my daughter's.

One of my daughter's best friends, and she had her in studio standing in front of me.

And I'm sitting here trying to figure out my camera.

And this is leading up to the answer to your question, by the way.

And I'm snapping, snapping, snapping, snapping, trying to figure out how to use my stupid camera and how to try to get these lights and the camera to give me the image that I've got in my head, and it's not working, and I'm getting frustrated, and.

And after she was standing there for 15 or 20 minutes, she finally says, what am I supposed to do?

And my ears got hot, my face turned Red.

And I said, I'll never let this happen to me again.

Is this before weddings or after weddings?

This is like, this is before I was shooting a wedding here and there.

Okay, so fast forward a bit.

I've shot quite a few weddings.

I'm, I'm working more editorial, trying to, to just learn more about lighting and all that.

And I had a client, a bridal client who came in and she was a plus size woman and she wanted to boudoir session.

And I had never worked with a plus size woman.

And I literally did not know what to do.

I was nervous, I was scared.

I didn't, I didn't want to hurt her feelings.

I just knew I was going to screw this up.

And what I ended up shooting was a bunch of headshots because I didn't know what to do with her curves.

I didn't know how to pose them.

And I thought, oh my God, I'm, I felt about this big and I'm putting little fingers together for the radio listeners.

And I just, I said I'm never going to let that happen to me again, and I'm never going to do that.

And I set out to learn how to, how to pose people who are curvy and who are tall and skinny and who don't have any curves.

Okay.

I just, this is me wondering, did you ever get the chance to shoot with her again?

No.

Oh, no.

And that's, that's, that's the sad thing is, you know, and I practice on a lot of people.

One of the ladies that we've used for hairstyling here a bit, I actually, she moved to Atlanta and I found her on Model Mayhem and got her to model for me.

And then you fast forward years later, 10 years, 15 years later, she's big in the Arctic community.

She's got, she's got, she's all.

Her name's Serpentine.

Serpentine.

She's on Facebook.

She's got all this fantastic cosplay stuff and she's big in the cosplay community.

But, and so she's someone that I did get to come back and shoot again.

Okay.

She was working with me and Jill and I got her to model for a concept that, that we had.

Yeah, but, yeah, but generally speaking, no, you, you learn a lesson and you.

Know, so we have how, like what brought you guys into photography and what brought you guys together and how one soul was created?

What really fueled.

It's really obvious, like when you come in and meet you guys and you do the intake, that this is Personal.

This isn't just a photo shoot.

Right.

What brought that concept to where now it's not just photos and it's not just shooting beauty.

This is like soul.

Like soul work.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a great question.

It's.

It's a lot more than just photography.

It's a lot more than just taking sexy pictures.

I have to throw out one thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like you had that in you all along.

Just being able to see that.

Yeah.

I don't think I ever, like, go into a shoot and being like, yes, we're going to get sexy pictures.

That's never on my mind.

We're going to get that.

We're going to get that moody sexiness, that beautiful whatever that you're trying to pull.

But for me, it's so much deeper as far as.

I just know that you're going to be surprised.

And we like to say you are never going to be prepared for what we show you.

And we tell everybody that, because no matter if you are come in, even if you're coming in confident, being like, I know I'm sexy, when you see your photos, you're going to be like, oh, my God, that's me.

You know?

And when you see yourself in that reveal room for the first time, it just is like you're either speechless, grabbing a tissue, or you're just, like, laughing.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

It's a shock moment.

And that's the moment.

What I love.

I love creating the art in the studio with women, but it's really the afternoon what I really love, because that's when you get to have more respect for yourself.

That's when you love yourself more.

Yeah.

It's fun in the studio.

It's really great.

But what's really important is how you feel about yourself after the session.

Yeah.

So is after seeing reactions several times, is that when you're like, whoa, well, what's the story behind these emotions?

Like, when.

When did that come in?

Because you guys ask, what does your past look like?

Like, what kind of struggles have you had?

They have.

I'll just say, for those who don't know, they have a really good intake system where you come in and they want to know what are the things that you have struggled with?

What are the things that you like about yourself?

What are the things you have a hard time looking at in the mirror or that you like to look at?

Like, so you have, like, a really good intake system.

How did.

Is that.

What kind of.

You're Wondering.

Yeah.

They ask that get developed.

They ask you your story, and so then it's not just like, oh, you just booked us to take photos.

Like, they're, like, actually caring about, well, who are you?

Yeah.

We want to know the backstory of why you're here.

And if it's.

Even if it's.

Maybe you went through a divorce and you need this for that personal pick me up.

Yeah.

That confidence.

If you're here to do something for your spouse because there's an anniversary.

If you're here maybe because you are doing a pre and post because you're going through breast cancer and you're going to.

You have breasts now, and you're not going to in a month.

You know, like, there's.

Oh, my gosh.

I'm getting like, yeah, but everyone has a story.

And like you said, like, we're not here just to take pictures.

You know, we want to know why.

Because we want to get to know you as a personal level, to create that art with you.

It's so much more than just taking pictures.

So, yeah, I think it's all this.

And I know what you're trying to get at.

How did.

How did we go from being like, for me, a guy with a camera to someone who cared about the people?

Okay.

I'm not.

No, no, no, no.

To be clear, that is not worth.

I mean, a little bit.

I mean.

No, but anyone can be a photographer, and anyone can be like, hey, okay, you hired me.

Here's a contract.

All right, let's take pictures.

But you guys sit us on the couch.

It's deeper.

It is.

So how do you get from.

It's unique.

Okay.

You use the word contract.

So how do you get from the contract to the emotion to the underlying need to the therapy?

Therapeutic.

Yes.

Because obviously it wasn't just overnight where you're like, oh, we're going to have a boudoir studio, and I want to know your whole life story.

It built.

There's a.

So practically speaking, the way it happened was we're sitting around wanting to get business.

Right.

We wanted to get more.

More sessions.

How do we get more sessions?

We hired a guy who could help us do some marketing on Facebook to attract a lot of.

A lot of business.

And so through this.

This model that he presented to us, that put us.

We were do.

We did a promotion.

And part of the promotion, the entrance had to complete a questionnaire and talk about themselves.

This may sound familiar.

Yep.

And we were stunned at how open everybody was with the questionnaire that we provided.

And then we follow that questionnaire with a 15 minute phone interview.

And then we, all the serious people that were genuine about wanting to win, blah, blah, blah, they go into a pot and we pull winners out.

And then there we go when we have sessions.

And you still do that today from.

That when we initially did that promotion years ago.

And we continue to do that is because we get to know the women by those four simple questions.

And you wouldn't believe like, it's like they haven't talked to someone and they're opening up to us and they've never met us before and they're telling us their story and hoping that they can just get some light and someone to listen to them.

Yes.

To be seen.

Yeah.

I can't tell you.

I was so shocked and I was like, why am I crying?

You guys asked and it's like I, like, I don't know why I'm crying, but it's because.

Oh, did I just tell you guys that?

I haven't told anyone that.

Okay, that's interesting.

And the thing is, is that we listen and we don't just.

You don't just answer the questions and they just go off to nowhere.

We get those and we actually talk to you and we get to know you on a personal level.

You may never have done a session with us.

We've talked to hundreds of ladies that have still not done sessions with us.

And that's not the point.

Obviously we're a business, but the point is for them to be seen, to be heard, that we appreciate them taking the time to want to be self respected.

And when they come into the studio for their session, all that, all that lead up is, is, is, is present.

Even ladies that come to us, not through a promotion, but just find us or they're referred by friend.

They still, we still go through this whole getting to know you.

So what's your.

Why.

Why are you here today?

I wanted to bring that up.

What do you really.

What are you looking for?

We've got this one slide in our deck.

That's good.

Just got a bunch of words.

It's got, you know, it's got confidence, sexy, edgy, so on and so forth.

And we ask you to choose which of these words resonate with you when you think about the way you want to feel after a session.

And what do you want your portraits to communicate.

Yeah.

And so, and that kind of gets into what's going on under the hood.

Not just.

I just wanted to take some sexy pictures for my, for my love, for my special Summer, right?

Yeah.

Well, how does that make you feel?

Like, I know that I felt really awkward maybe looking at those words because I was like, okay, never do I look at myself and be like, oh, okay, be sexy.

And then, like, be sexy.

And so I'm picking out playful.

I'm picking out cute.

I'm picking out, like, you know, just fun.

But you guys were still able to make it into something that.

That did have a sex appeal to it.

I mean, it wasn't.

Maybe it wasn't intentional, but I think that's the point, is to make you see yourself in a different way.

It depends on how.

If that slide, for instance, is the only thing that.

That we are getting data from when you walk in, Jill and I are still going to Daring hair makeup.

We're gonna.

We're gonna dig in a little bit more and ask more questions.

That's true.

I just recently had someone in for hair and makeup, and I had read all of her stuff on the consultation deck that Kelsey had pulled together, and I'm reading through the conversation thing, and I'm like, okay, so she.

One of the hordes is sexy that she wanted to.

She wanted to be.

She wanted to feel sexy.

And that's not.

I don't think it's one of the parts on the screen, but it's.

It's.

Anyway, so I said, so I.

So I asked her, so what does sexy mean to you?

And, man, she just started talking and it just.

It was so illuminating to hear what her idea of sexy was and why she wanted to feel sexy.

Because she doesn't.

She doesn't feel that way, and she's got, like, this divided life, you know, and she's.

She's expected to be this, and she never gets to experience and explore that.

Right.

And that's what sexy meant to her, was just this hidden whole thing.

And so that.

That really informs us when we get ready to come out here in the set space and shoot.

Yeah, yeah.

Because I do think that it means so many different things.

It does.

So we did dig a little deeper.

If you choose that word.

We're still going to ask questions about what.

What does sexy mean to you?

It could be that cute, playful side sexy, or it could be that, you know, naughty, red room, 50 Shades Sexy.

And we know about.

We ask about your home life.

We ask, are you happy?

Are you.

Does your.

Does your work.

Is your work fulfilling or is it draining your significant other if you got one at home?

Do they like what they do or is it draining for them fulfilling?

How does that affect your relationship.

You guys ask if there was anything traumatic because you want to make sure you don't do anything triggering, like if someone.

If someone lived a sexually abusive life.

I think that you guys aren't going to push like, oh, let's do body skate, because we think that you'd look really good.

Like, you guys kind of feel that out and you don't want to push anyone to do something.

Yeah.

We like to know the backstory of if there's any traumas or something that.

Because obviously we don't want to be doing something that, you know, we want you to have a good experience.

So we don't want to pull anything from wardrobe or, you know, provide any sets that might not be a good experience.

Yeah.

So, yeah, let's just to dig into that a little bit.

If we have a client who's had.

Who has an assault in their past, who.

Anything.

Anything remotely related to that, we.

If it doesn't come up, it will before the shoot's over.

And it will be.

It will be a safe conversation.

And generally there's not any tears when it's.

When we discuss it.

And it's just a kind of a.

Because we're a super safe space here.

You can come in here with.

With whatever you think might be.

Well, you're afraid that the world will think your idea or your desire or your need or your phobia is crazy here.

Yeah.

And you.

And it's.

I think very quickly you figure out that you can say what you want to say and.

And you'll be safe.

And that's really important for us to have you in that head space.

Because if you're in that headspace and you're feeling comfortable, you're feeling safe, then you're going to be relaxed.

Yeah.

And when you're relaxed, you're going to have fun in front of the camera.

We're going to show you the back of the camera.

We're going to show you that you're doing a great job and you're going to be so fun and so fantastic.

And when you see your photos, it's largely because you felt comfortable with us.

Yeah.

You got the emotional vulnerability out.

And once you get emotional vulnerability out, we cut.

We cut through all the social norms, like, right away.

Right.

We.

I will jokingly say, I.

I don't want to, like, that's a.

I don't want to, like, you know, give my secret away.

But you're in hair and makeup and you're all done, and you.

You come in nervous as Nervous as can be.

And you've kind of relaxed a bit.

You've had a mimosa or whatever, and.

And you've had girl time for an hour and a half, and.

And you're feeling pretty confident.

You're looking pretty and all this.

And then now it's time to come in the studio set space, and all of a sudden, your.

Your heart's in your throat again.

And that's why I might clap my hands, say, okay, let.

Yeah.

And I did.

I trembled the whole time or the whole first little bit.

Yeah.

And I think just saying stuff like that.

But you did not.

You do not.

Yeah.

Just to be clear, everybody, he did not make any.

You ain't get naked.

It was a joke.

It was a joke.

Yeah, we never start there.

Yeah, we'll go.

We'll do whatever you want to do.

Yeah.

And it really is, you know, with the comfort level, I always like to joke and say, bring your snowsuit.

We'll make you look sexy.

Yeah, you did say that.

Yeah.

So when people are really nervous, like, you know, coming in here, I like to correct that joke.

Because sometimes it's not about what you're.

What you're wearing.

This goes back to, like, what is sexy, because it could be the lighting.

It could be the.

The mood and the expression and how you're just holding yourself against the wall and.

And add a snow suit to that.

You can literally look sexy in a snowsuit.

Because it's not about just wearing lingerie.

You can be wearing your boss babe outfit.

You can be wearing grunge clothes.

Yeah.

And looking bomb.

So it's not necessarily about wearing lingerie to be doing a boudoir session.

It's not about.

It's not.

Yeah.

It's not about what you're wearing, how much or how little.

It's how you're looking at the camera.

Yeah.

And I think that that is what I needed from my session.

It wasn't.

I needed to feel comfortable in my everyday clothes, which is why we were like, okay, well, let's do it.

What's your favorite outfit?

And, like, that was, like, really important to me because I've never worn.

I have never worn normal clothes and been like, I look good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Starting with sweats and a tee or whatever.

Yeah.

Yes.

And when you see yourself looking pretty great in stuff that you wear into Publix, that is very impactful.

That's the empowerment stuff.

And then the other stuff is just a bonus.

Right.

And I feel like you guys are really good at understanding your audience and who it is that you're shooting and their why.

Their why.

Because it's clear you guys have your why.

Like empowerment and just share the love, but understanding the person who walks in.

Here's why.

So, like, for me, I remember when I walked in, and I was like, I don't really want.

I want to look cute and sexy, but I don't want, like, that sexy.

Like, everything's black and red.

And I was like, I don't know.

I had this thing in my mind of what a boudoir shoot was supposed to look like.

Chains.

And, you know.

Really?

Oh, yeah.

And I was like, that's not what I want.

And they're like, okay, well, that's.

That's.

Don't bring your chains.

Yeah.

And then she basically was like, yeah, so you bring your snowsuit then?

Or.

And then David started telling dad jokes, something about an aunt.

I'll never remember.

But there's an aunt joke that you have?

Yes, there is.

We can't say it.

Okay, we won't say it.

You don't want to ruin it.

But I will say, though, his dad jokes.

There's two very specific photos where he makes his dad jokes, and I just give him that look of like, are you.

Who are you talking to right now?

For me, it just made me loosen up, be like, oh, my gosh, he's a dork, too.

And I loved it, because then I could just, like, laugh and be myself.

And that's where, like, you were able to capture who I am.

Yeah, I think.

I think part of cutting through all the.

You know, as you're.

When you're coming into the studio, if you're coming in the studio as a woman working with a couple or a guy, you've got all these societal things in your head that you're concerned about.

Yes.

And I used the expression guy with camera earlier.

That's one of the.

That's one of the things that a woman coming in to shoot with a guy might worry about.

So what's he thinking?

You know, is he checking me out?

All this kind.

That was definitely my initial thought is.

I couldn't grasp, like, okay, how is a husband and wife comfortable with this?

How am I supposed to be comfortable in front of me?

Because this is before the talks that we had the last time.

This is pre.

Getting all into different aspects of life.

And so, yeah, that was a really hard concept.

Is like, a man is not, like, casually, like, you know, looking at me like this.

He's doing that.

He's, like, actually focusing on me and Pointing a camera at me.

And his wife is standing there.

How does that.

Are they getting off on this?

Yeah, no, I know you're not.

The funny thing.

So there's a photographer in another state.

On her website, she talks about this whole thing, about the photographer's, you know, perspective.

And.

And in her faq, she says, so I get asked a lot, am I checking you out?

No, I am not checking you out.

I'm checking the lights.

I'm checking.

I'm checking the way the lights, the shadows falling across your nose and all this kind of stuff.

That's what I was thinking about David for in particular, like.

And you're very detail oriented, but, like, you even.

I feel like you're in another world and you're, like, worried about all the technical stuff.

And it's awesome because it makes me know, okay, I just gotta be me.

And he's not, like, focusing, you guys.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So in a session with us, like, he focuses.

He focuses more on, like, the lighting and the tech issues and the gear.

And I'm focusing on, like, if your strap is twisted or if you're.

If there's, like, a hair that's all going haywire.

Yeah.

So between the two of us, I mean, you just get amazing shots with that.

But we do get, you know, people asking, well, is there a man?

Is your husband gonna be there?

And it's like, well, we prefer to shoot together.

You know, there are times that David needs to shoot by himself or myself due to, you know, if someone is ill or family issues or, you know, scheduling conflict.

Scheduling.

Maybe someone's at an expo or something.

And we're both professional in the concept of we can handle wardrobe, studio lights, and we're respectful.

And if we're not shooting together, we still have an assistant here with us to help shoot.

So that's just to help keep the comfort level where it needs to be.

And honestly, I'm not a lone wolf.

I like having someone around to help with things and be a second set of eyes for me.

Yeah.

And for us, it goes back to.

Again, we're not just, like, taking pictures and sexy pictures and be like, oh, yeah, babe, go look sexy.

Right?

And that's one thing we'll never say is go be sexy.

Because God knows, like, I mean, we all have it in us, but what does that even look like when we try to do it ourselves?

Right.

But really we're looking at the art behind it and not just taking, like, oh, that's a pretty picture.

There's so much more of, like, like, oh, my gosh.

Did you see that lighting?

Or did you see how it hits your hips?

Yeah, like, that's what I hear Melissa will say.

Sometimes I can hear things that aren't said is I can hear you guys going, okay, we know the backstory.

We know, like, you know, this, and this has happened to them and what they're, like, hoping for.

And, like, you guys were thinking, like, I want.

Let's.

Are you comfortable with the shot?

Let's do this shot.

Because you guys know that once we see them, we're gonna be like.

Like, oh, yeah, that's.

That was what I needed to feel.

X, Y, Z.

I think you guys are thinking about the backstory and knowing what.

Knowing their audience, what the person needs to feel good.

I think so, too.

Yeah.

And you.

It's apparent.

Sorry, I didn't mean to.

It's very apparent when we're in here.

Like, I was.

I was comfortable.

Like, okay, I was nervous.

Yeah.

But you guys knew how to, like, hey, this is.

And I think it's normal to be nervous and excited.

You have those mixed emotions coming through here.

Because boudoir is a very vulnerable type of photography.

Right.

You're like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to this place with people that I know who do great work, but, oh, my gosh, I think I've never met them before.

And I'm going to be taking my clothes off.

Do you remember what I said at the very end of my shoot?

You were like, it's okay if you don't, do you?

No.

Okay.

You were so funny.

You were like, I've never heard anyone say that.

You said, I did it.

I got naked.

Yeah.

And I said, oh, my gosh, I have to make a T shirt.

And I said, maybe we shouldn't make a T shirt.

You should absolutely make a T shirt.

Because I was so empowering.

I didn't think I could.

I like to joke because it literally happened.

So, Jill.

So I'm like, you know, I'm in my own little world, and you can come here and be free as a bird and run around the place naked.

And I'm busy doing my thing, and I'm, like, thinking about the next shot and thinking about how I'm going to light it and thinking about what we're going to be covering so that it's not, like, all out there and all that I'm kind of creating.

I'm trying to create something you would.

That you would hopefully see in the Uffizi gallery one day.

And.

And Jill is always Aware of propriety.

And.

And she's always worrying about, you know, she's a pleaser.

And so we've got.

We had this one client.

She came in nervous, nervous, nervous.

And I don't know, within a half an hour.

So she's running around the studio naked.

And Jill's literally.

No, it was not.

And.

But Jill's literally running after her with robe, saying, here, put this on.

And that's really what it's like.

You just get so comfortable, you lose yourself.

And that's what we want.

We want you to come here and just feel, like.

Feel free to be you.

And I love that Jill was following her with the robe and not judgmental in any way.

It was just, here, let me take care of you.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Because you forgot.

And there are times, you know, like, you have your own changing room.

And we'll say, you know, like, hey, are you dressed?

And some ladies are like, no, come on in.

And I'm just like, oh, I'll just wait a minute.

And they're like, oh, no, come on.

So.

And everyone is different.

You know, we give the privacy and, you know, the modesty.

You can be as modest and conservative with wearing turtlenecks if you want to, and that's up to you.

We're not like, you have to do.

A, B, or C.

You need to see cleavage or.

Yeah, like, you feel it out.

I remember you guys were telling me, stop it with the cleavage.

We're worried, you guys.

I can't remember what you said, but something like, okay, let's just get a normal shot of you smiling, like.

And you guys kept telling me to stop smiling.

I was like, but wait, I was.

Pushing my boobs up.

All right, I have a closing question.

Okay.

Yeah.

Who are we talking to?

Who's like, who are we speaking to?

Who's listening to this episode?

Like, who are you talking to?

Saying, like, this is for you.

This is what you need to hear and commit us.

Oh, that's easy.

It's everybody.

Yeah.

So men, women, couples, same sex, anybody, whoever wants to be in front of the camera, to see themselves in a whole different light were for you.

And I will say that.

And to say.

To use the phrase in front of the camera, Not a lot of people want to be in front of the camera.

I think that everybody wants to feel better about themselves.

Yeah.

And if you're willing to take a chance and come put yourself in front of the camera, come just spend a day with us and don't.

And forget about the camera, you're going to just.

You're going to discover this whole side of you that you had always wished was there.

Yeah.

And you'll be pleasantly surprised to know that the.

That self confident person that you always wanted to be and you feel like you're not or that self confident person is right in there just waiting to be seen.

And when we show you a portrait of yourself looking dead into the camera, you're just going to be going, holy smokes.

And we like to say that people leave here wondering where the red carpet is.

And, and I, and Jill and I, we, we joked about that for long enough that we actually bought a red carpet, but then we got it really dirty and we tossed it.

Oh, no, we get another one.

Yeah, but.

Yeah, but.

And that just goes back to the point that every person, when you see your photos, that's.

You're never going to be prepared for what we show you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's honestly a perfect note to end on because.

David, what did you say?

Everyone just wants to be seen.

Is that what I heard?

And I feel like that's a big topic of what you guys are going to be hearing in May.

And that's just a really big subject of what this season is about is ways to be seen and ways to.

Feel comfortable and ways to even see yourself in a weird way, if I can say it that way, not see yourself in a weird way.

Okay, we need like punctuation in there.

I meant in a weird way.

It's almost as if we're saying see yourself.

There we go.

Yeah.

I was like, no, we're not being weird.

Cut that.

No, but yes.

Any final words?

No.

We thank you guys for coming to our studio.

Yeah.

I think we covered everything that's.

That's important.

You know that, that boudoir is really all about discovering who you are and celebrating who you are.

Yeah.

And taking a chance with yourself and seeing that.

That you really are a beautiful soul and you got your own kind of beauty.

Yeah.

Thank you.

One soul.

One soul.

So, ladies, take a chance on yourselves.

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