Nine out of 10 US babies are missing one or more important bacteria for them in their gut,

Speaker 2 00:00:07

whether or not breastfed, vaginal birth, C-section.

Speaker 2 00:00:10

This is something that all moms need to be looking into.

All moms need to be looking at it, and also everybody in the healthcare system is, again, it's modern life.

We have to put back these microbes so they can thrive.

What if I told you that nine outta 10 babies born in America, even the ones who seem perfectly healthy, even the breastfed babies, even the ones born vaginally are missing something crucial from day one.

i'm your host Trish Ware, and as a labor nurse who delivered thousands of babies, I thought I understood everything about newborn health.

But today's conversation really shifted my perspective on what our babies actually need to thrive.

And as a Gigi, I am thinking about this for my sweet little granddaughter.

I'm joined today by Stephanie Color from Persephone Biosciences, who's created the first of its kind sin biotic, designed for modern babies.

We're gonna dive into gut health and why it matters, even if you are breastfeeding, even if you had a vaginal delivery.

So if you've ever wondered what you need to know about gut health, today's episode is for you.

Welcome, Stephanie.

We are so happy that you're here.

I want to just ask you as we get started, if you could share who you are and also I wanted to hear like.

What was your big aha moment or what made you decide to focus in on healthy baby guts and all this stuff?

So I would love to just have you introduce yourself and maybe just hop into why you're doing what you're doing.

Dr. Stephanie: Thank you.

Well, thank you for having me today.

So I'm Stephanie Color, co-founder and CEO of Persephone Biosciences.

We're a microbiome company.

I am a scientist by training.

I did my PhD at Caltech, actually focused in gene therapy for cancer applications and new medicines.

So how we got into infant gut health.

It was actually through a journey, through cancer.

We founded Persephone a little over eight years ago with the mission of understanding the gut microbiome so that we could prevent and treat disease.

And over the first, I would say five years of the company, we actually only focused in cancer research where the microbiome's been.

To how cancer patients respond to treatment.

Because most of our immune system is in our gut, 80% of our immune cells is in our gut.

And so the microbes in our gut are really critical for health and for cancer patients, how they respond to treatment.

And, during that journey, we started to have conversations of thinking about how could we.

Span this technology to other areas of unmet need.

And through a conversation with a leading pediatrician, actually a physician, a scientist, who, who came to me during COVID, and, and said, you know, we know how you are working in cancer research trying to fix the microbiome of cancer patients.

Why don't you try to.

The microbiome of babies.

And this was really upsetting to me because my daughter today is four, and at the time she was six months old.

You know, first time mom, COVID, I'm an expert in microbiome and in absolutely shock to hear this.

But the other aspect was, what is this problem?

And so, you know, it turns out because of modern practices like antibiotic.

C-section births, even infant formula, use poor diet.

Babies don't get transmitted the right microbes for their gut microbiome to mature, but also for the immune system to develop.

And when that happens, when they're missing these microbes, immune system develops errors.

And so these kids are much higher risk for getting food allergies, eczema, asthma, and many other chronic conditions.

Mm-hmm.

It, it's so fascinating and yet.

Also, when you talk about the gut, it makes so much sense.

You know, it makes so much sense that all of that is rooted in what we put in our body, what's going on inside of our gut.

Because like our gut is where everything that we put into our body goes through, right?

Dr. Stephanie: Exactly.

I

don't, and that's

why

they call

Dr. Stephanie: it

a second

Dr. Stephanie: brain.

So,

yeah.

Yeah.

It just, it makes so much sense, but also not, does that make sense?

Yeah,

Dr. Stephanie: absolutely.

Yeah.

So you are saying that because, because some of the research I've done and also promoting your products is that even, it's not just C-section babies, it's also breastfed vaginally born babies.

Even though that's told to us like that's the better thing.

But you are saying those babies still need extra help.

Dr. Stephanie: Absolutely.

So, so when they came to me, again, I was a cancer research and that's my mission.

I lost both my grandmothers to cancer when I was a young teenager.

That's inspired me to become a scientist in what I was doing and I had a full face moment like, you know, we have to solve this problem.

I'm on a mission because you know, we are seeing global research around the world suggesting that modern babies, this is not babies from a hundred years ago.

Mm-hmm.

Or the Amish, or babies from hunters and gatherers today.

Yeah.

These are modern babies that have been impacted by multi-generations of antibiotic use.

We've seen from global research that this impacts all modern babies.

There's, there's hundreds if not thousands of publications on this.

And so to better understand this in the United States and to understand even how vaginally born breastfed babies are impacted, we launched the My Baby Biome study with three years ago, which is a seven year study, the largest study ever done in the United.

States to map the infant microbiome.

So collecting a lot of dirty diapers and you know, a lot of poop.

A lot of poop.

And you know, what we found was really shocking to us that nine out of 10 US babies are missing one or more important bacteria for their gut.

These are bifidobacteria, one or more.

And these are critical to immune system development.

And we even think brain development.

And when we looked further, you know, if it's nine out of 10 babies, it's actually most vaginally born babies as well, and breastfed and, and the reason why, you know, that is the natural way.

It's just that modern life has compromised the situation.

It's not anything that the parents are doing wrong.

It's really just that mom is missing these microbes, family members are missing it, and so the child just doesn't get exposed anymore.

So it, it's, it's so fascinating.

So like.

What is the difference between what you guys have, which is a symbiotic and regular probiotics?

Dr. Stephanie: That is a fantastic question.

I believe this is one of the first precision type products to ever come to the market.

And so, you know, based on our research, again, the largest study ever done in the US using machine learning or ai, we were able to determine the three types.

Of gut bacteria, Biro bacteria that were missing from the babies.

And it so turns out that these three types of bacteria thrive in the presence of prebiotics only frowned in breast milk.

They kind of evolve together to, to allow the gut to grow.

That's the first.

These, these microbes are the seed to the gut.

Breast milk is essentially the water.

And so that's what we created in this product.

We put back those probiotic seeds and those breast milk prebiotics, which are called human milk logo saccharides, and they evolved together.

Don't try to say

that fast

Dr. Stephanie: or HMOs for short.

Yes,

they're, yeah.

Dr. Stephanie: And, and what's fascinating about these prebiotics.

They don't feed the child.

They're not calories for the child.

They feed the gut bacteria.

Okay.

It's the third biggest component of breast milk and it's only for the bacteria showing how important that microbiome is to the infant.

So I'm going off track with some of my questions, but we've got my daughter's pregnant.

She's due in January.

Oh, congratulations.

So you are saying that whether or not the breastfed.

Vaginal birth C-section.

This is something that.

All moms need to be looking into.

Dr. Stephanie: All moms need to be looking at it.

And also all pediatricians.

OBGYNs.

Yeah, lactation, you know, everybody in, in the healthcare system, which is something that we're trying to do, to educate and share more on this.

It's again, it's modern life.

Mm-hmm.

We have to put back these microbes so they can thrive.

And this is also multi-generational because mm-hmm.

If a mom today has a child, they're born, however they're born, vaginal born C-section, they're missing these microbes.

Right.

And if that daughter then goes on to have children, they continue to, to be missing these vector, we have to reintroduce it.

And again, the importance here is the probiotics.

Or nothing.

Well, one, if they're not the right probiotics.

They don't colonize and grow in the gut.

Mm-hmm.

There's key differences.

It, it matters.

Okay, what type of probiotic?

But second, if they don't have their food or their water, those breast milk prebiotics, they don't grow.

They don't have that advantage.

And so it's really important that this product is a symbiotic because regardless how a child is fed, they get the right combination of pre and probiotics to thrive.

So let's talk.

You said that the pediatricians and the different professionals that are involved in these babies' lives, but I'm sure some of my parents who are listening are thinking, well, my baby seems fine.

They're gaining weight, they sleep okay.

Do they really need this?

Absolutely.

And, and maybe what are some signs that a baby's gut microbiome might not be?

I mean, what would you say?

Like optimal?

Dr. Stephanie: Optimal, yeah.

Again, our, our research is showing most babies are not optimal.

Right.

And especially in the United States, and that's also connected to health outcomes.

We noticed that the babies that have low amounts or none of this type of bacteria, bifidobacteria, that they get food allergies.

They're at three to four fold more risk of food allergies, eczema, asthma, and other conditions.

So I would say one, are they getting these conditions?

Are they getting these chronic conditions?

Do they have eczema?

Do they have food allergies?

That those are all signs, that there something was wrong with the microbiome.

In addition, I would say there's more acute things.

Are they colicky?

Are they fussy?

Do they have constipation?

And then is there sleep?

Is there something going on with their sleep?

and, I would say those are the key areas.

Appetite sometimes is a good sign, but general fussiness for the kids is a really good sign that something's up to with the microbiome.

And our clinical research with our product has shown that kids who do take this product and within a month, parents as well as also we've seen in our clinical trials, are reporting improvements in sleep.

For infants, reduction in fussiness, crying colicky type, situations, reduction in constipation, regular bowel movements, diaper rash.

Significant reductions in diaper rash.

That's crazy.

And we're also getting feedback.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so it's all connected.

Again, it's the largest center of all the immune system and that kind of network to your point.

Yeah.

So would you recommend to a new mom that she does this if she's not having, like is this something you should only use?

If they're having problems,

Dr. Stephanie: we recommend this.

We're, our focus here is to make it standard of care.

Okay.

Such that every baby gets exposed to this.

So regardless of seeing these signs, we wanna be able to prevent those issues.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

And so we, we recommend from day one to start this type of product again.

We're trying to restore what Mother Nature intended.

Yeah.

This was never meant, you know, we, babies were intended to always have these microbes from birth.

Yeah.

And, and as you were talking, I was thinking that like I, and I'm totally like making guesses here, that as you were introduced to this, your heart is about cancer research.

But wouldn't you say that this is going all the way back to prevent the cancer?

Dr. Stephanie: Absolutely.

And there's some research that we're conducting right now that we'll be sharing more on, that the infant microbiome, the toddler microbiome, childhood microbiome may be connected to the early onset of colorectal cancer, in fact, because there's some microbes in the gut that are associated with colorectal cancer.

And so, yes, so it all goes back to the root cause.

How can we really start to prevent all of these conditions, including cancer?

Yeah.

We really wanna see how long, you know, how we can make improvements in, in just the health of these children.

Yeah.

So tell me like, well tell, tell everybody about your product, how it's used.

When do you use it?

Is this something you use forever?

Like give us the lowdown on that.

Dr. Stephanie: Yeah, yeah.

So we have it broken down into kind of two, two.

So we have it for infants, zero to 12 months, toddlers, 12 to 36 months plus, I would say.

Mm-hmm.

This, this again is, kind of a complete package for parents in this timeframe.

It has the right probiotics, that seed of the gut, the right prebiotics that's.

Feed them, but also vitamin D, which is really important.

So, really important.

Now you can just take one product instead of adding vitamin D, D drops and all these other things.

It's a powder and so it's really light, it's tasteless.

So parents for infants can add it to formula, breast milk, purees.

And then as they get older to any type of food, like I like eating smoothies, yogurts.

Et cetera.

And we suggest this is a daily product, it's mm-hmm.

And, and our clinical research supports that you need to continue to dose this to have the benefits.

Okay.

Because they do start to go away, over time.

They do colonize the gut.

They get in the gut and grow, but you need to keep replenishing them, right?

And they're really helpful in case kids get sick and antibiotic.

Have antibiotics, right?

That really, is quite detrimental to the child's gut.

We, you know, use the product as adults as well, the toddler product.

So, you know, we are developing something more specific for adults, but we do recommend, taking this for, for essentially all ages.

Okay?

This is a product we think for, for life because these are not only microbes.

That are the foundation of the human gut microbiome, but they're important for life.

These are microbes you and I need to have.

Right.

Okay.

And so we are replenishing them.

Okay.

So you're saying this is like a, a lifestyle like you change and start doing this and that's that?

Dr. Stephanie: Absolutely.

And of course it goes hand in hand with improvements in diet and thinking about diet quality.

And that's a another area of focus at the company is food is medicine because good gut health does go in hand with diet.

Right.

Yeah.

So I'm thinking like for some of the parents who are, listening like.

And they decide to start doing this, like how will they know that it's like working for them.

You said sleep was one sweet.

Maybe less fussiness,

Dr. Stephanie: less fussiness reduction in diaper rash for those little ones that had diaper rash.

Any like rash or, and if you've not, if you've not had a baby that's had bad diaper rash.

My oldest son, I could have used this.

He had the worst diaper rash ever all the time.

Dr. Stephanie: And it's hard to get rid of.

Right.

So

yes, cornstarch is what I

Dr. Stephanie: did.

Yes.

But yeah.

Dr. Stephanie: So, so yeah.

So that, that's something.

But also, you know, bowel movements, we've heard amazing results on consistency, but like also just, you know, a lot of kids do have constipation.

Yeah.

Better appetite was another one that we've been able to see quite a bit.

Of course.

Yeah.

Sleep is something quite noticeable as well.

Well, yeah, it's all so fascinating and I'm, I'm wondering like, you know, you said compared to previous generations, but we're talking going back a lot of generations at this point because I would say that our gut it, this isn't like my great-grandmother.

She probably needed it too, and my mom and my grandma.

Like, you know, 'cause you're saying like the gut, the modern baby, but we're talking how far back a lot since Hunter-gatherers, right?

Well,

Dr. Stephanie: no, I mean we can look at the Amish in the U US and we can also look at, you know, a hundred years ago we have some data, microscopy data supporting that.

The microbiome of babies did have a lot of these and so it was really over.

Okay.

The last hundred years, the last, I would say that it's really post World War ii.

It's industrialization, it's the widespread use of antibiotics.

It's also the rates of C-section.

You know, C-section was about 5% in the us Oh, it's like

35%.

Dr. Stephanie: Now it's over 30%.

Yeah.

There was a period of time, in the United States where infant formula was being used quite extensively compared to breastfeeding.

You know, we had some shifts.

Yeah.

Dr. Stephanie: It's all of these different factors.

But we're also seeing some pretty intense rates of food allergies increasing since the 1990s.

Yeah.

You know, 50% higher than it was in the 1990s today.

So, you know, all of that seems to be building upon that the last few generations are the ones that are truly impacted.

It's interesting that you've mentioned the Amish a few times.

So their babies are not testing the same as our babies.

Dr. Stephanie: No.

They have high levels of these bifidobacteria that we're trying to restore.

Again, they don't use antibiotics.

There's no C-sections.

They live on a farm.

And so that's kind of the best way, that's like the modern version Yeah.

Of what our gut microbiome used to be.

Yeah, I'm definitely not looking towards going towards an Amish lifestyle.

Dr. Stephanie: Yeah,

I like my modern conveniences over here.

My husband would be totally, I mean, he says he would be, we've been married five years.

He's way more bougie now than he was when we met.

I don't know that he could totally do that type of lifestyle either, but.

It's, I like, I'm sitting here as a Gigi who's about to have my second grandchild.

Oh my gosh.

In January.

And I'm like, gosh, is this something I should get for Lainey to for, because Lainey, I have three of my kids who have such health, gut related issues, but you know, she's 21 or 20 and I didn't know about that back then, you know?

And my son, who's 30, didn't know about any of that back then.

And I Absolutely.

They were they, nausea, vomiting, constipation, acid reflux, you know, all the things.

Dr. Stephanie: Yeah.

Yeah.

Terrible sleepers.

And I feel like I should get it for Laney and the baby.

Dr. Stephanie: Absolutely.

I mean, absolutely.

There's a lot of moms taking the product.

We are looking, we, you know, we get that question a lot.

Can this be helpful for moms?

We think so.

We are gonna come up with a, a formulation that's a bit more specific, but in the meantime, yes.

Like for pregnancy

or for breastfeeding moms or both?

Dr. Stephanie: For, for both.

For both.

Yeah.

Dr. Stephanie: We're trying to get that whole cycle essentially, but yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Stephanie: I mean.

It's, it's, again, this is modern science that we're finding out.

Yeah.

I know.

It's mother nature.

It's what, what's been evolution for a long time.

Yeah.

But it really took modern science in our, these latest cutting, cutting edge techniques to understand truly the problem and why it's happening.

It's,

it's so interesting that you said that because the problem of a lot of things is how far we've gotten from what we should be doing naturally.

And you, like you saying, because.

When my mom had me, that's when Formula was like, Ooh, that's the bougie thing to do.

Like let's give them formula.

Not realizing like the breast milk's what they need, you know?

And so not that I'm knocking on anyone who chooses to use formula, I'm not, but it's like we always introduce these new things.

Come to find out the original thing, the thing our body does is the thing we need.

Dr. Stephanie: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And, and a lot of it's unintended consequences, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stephanie: Antibiotics save lives.

They do.

And, and they're incredibly powerful, but they also kill a lot of good microbes in the gut microbiome.

Yeah.

Dr. Stephanie: And so, you know, we, we have all these trade-offs in, in modern life mm-hmm.

That we dealing with medical, like, you know, cures.

But at the same token, they, they have these impacts.

I, I say this about birth all the time.

Birth is a natural process, but thank God we have the medical interventions when they're needed.

Thank God.

Dr. Stephanie: Absolutely.

Yes.

So it's the same kind of thing, like we're not saying like no antibiotics or any of that, but we're saying let's give our body back what it need or our babies' bodies back, what it needs to survive in a more healthy way.

Dr. Stephanie: Exactly.

Yeah.

It's so, it's so fascinating.

So you're saying if a mom decides to go this route for a breastfed, so at what age do they start using this for a newborn,

Dr. Stephanie: we say day one, you

know.

Okay.

Dr. Stephanie: Right.

In the

Dr. Stephanie: hospital, you know, bring this, uh, a men essentially.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So for a breastfed mom, 'cause I'm thinking of Laney, my daughter, who would be like, well, if I'm breastfeeding and not bottle feeding, how in the heck would I do this?

So as a labor nurse, a lot of times in the hospital.

And especially me, because I don't want there to be confusion of any sort.

So for my moms who are like absolutely no bottle or whatever, and we find ourselves needing to help the baby or whatever, I will teach them how to express chorum and how to do a spoon feed or a cup feed.

So that would be a recommendation, right, for these babies.

Absolutely.

But is it a big amount that they need?

How much

Dr. Stephanie: liquid do you need?

It's so tiny.

So, so I mean, really you can do some ex express feed form a little paste with your finger and to stick it in their mouth.

Okay.

All they need is, is really a little amount.

Okay.

And even that's what we suggest.

Start low and slow, you know, just a little bit.

A little bit.

And then also as, so

they don't start with that full packet right off the bat on day one?

Dr. Stephanie: No.

Just a little bit like a smidge of that.

And then, you know, you can work your way up as the child starts to tolerate more.

So

maybe one packet for the first week and do a smidge every day.

Yeah.

That's

Dr. Stephanie: essentially, and you can also just put it on your chest.

And so as the child does better at latching, once you get that kind of figured out, you can just put it on your chest,

and let it, okay.

So make a little paste of a smidge of it.

Yes.

Put it on her nipple.

Dr. Stephanie: Yep.

Exactly.

And the baby can just.

Drink the Chorum and the Sid.

Okay.

Dr. Stephanie: Exactly.

Okay.

Dr. Stephanie: Exactly.

Yeah.

'cause I know that's gotta be a que if me, as a, a labor and delivery nurse who's breastfed pretty much the majority of my life, I don't know if, you know, I have seven children.

I was thinking that because not a lot of moms are taught how to supplement without a bottle, you know?

Dr. Stephanie: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And

Dr. Stephanie: that's, that's probably one of the biggest questions that, that we do get as well.

Okay.

Okay.

I, I would see that because I can see these breastfed, breastfeeding moms being a little bit confused on how to do that.

So any other like.

They need to know this type of things that you, if you had a pregnant or an early postpartum mom sitting here with you, 'cause that's the majority of my audience.

What are some, like, what are some things we haven't hit on that you feel like they really need to know?

Dr. Stephanie: You know, kind of going into this, if you are having a C-section, your baby automatically is not born with the right microbiome.

Mm-hmm.

They get exposed to the microbiome of the hospital.

And skin.

Yay, for example, right?

Yeah.

So they're missing, unfortunately.

Yeah.

So you need to think about that ahead of time.

Mm-hmm.

And that's, that's why these kinds of products can be really, really helpful towards combating that, because they're the ones with the most severely, I would say, unhealthy microbiomes because of the birth, you know, where they're born, essentially.

Okay.

So just knowing that, and then understanding that.

You know, that is a needed process, but also there's a lot of health risks and hopefully by fixing the microbiome quickly, they can get the child better on track from that perspective.

I think the, the other thing is that just knowing now that most babies are impacted, it is kind of that insurance policy.

Mm-hmm.

You wanna make sure that you can incorporate this as soon as possible, into your kind of daily feeding regime.

Okay.

All right.

Well thank you so much for coming today.

This is so fascinating.

I'd love for you to just share with everyone where they can find you and how they can order your product.

And we'll put some links in the show notes as well.

Dr. Stephanie: Awesome.

Thank you so much.

You can find us@persephone.bio.

That's our website.

More on the research, the product, where it's available.

And also you could follow us on socials Instagram.

We are, at Chris Bio.

Awesome.

Well, thank you so much for coming today, Stephanie.

Dr. Stephanie: Thank you for having me.

I.

That's a wrap on another episode of the Birth Experience with Labor Nurse Mama, if this conversation hit you and it really made you think about Baby Gut, screenshot this episode and share it to your stories.

Tag me at Labor nurse dot Mama so I can see what resonated with you.

Remember.

You are doing an amazing job and we adore you.

We see you, we love you, and we want to be on this journey with you.

Make sure you hit subscribe, leave a review, and as always, I'll be back next Friday with more conversations about pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.

Until then, give yourself some grace.

You're doing an amazing job.

I'll see you again next week.

Bye for now.