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In this episode, I'm going to be
talking about a number of different

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things amongst them are a little bit
more about co regulation to build

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on last week, regret, trust and
vulnerability repairing relationships.

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There's a whole bunch of stuff
that I'm trying to address in this

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episode and it all starts off with
a reading a question that I got

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from one of my community members.

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But before we get to that,
hi, I am Justin Sunseri.

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I'm a therapist, a coach, and the creator
of the Polyvagal Trauma Relief System.

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Welcome to Stuck Not Broken, where I
teach you how to live with more calm,

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confidence, and connection without
the psychobabble or the woo woo.

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This podcast is not therapy, of
course, and it's not intended

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to be a replacement for therapy.

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And I actually have a huge Announcement
for you at the end of the episode.

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So stick around for that.

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But the question I got here was from
someone within my Stucknaut Collective

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community, my private community.

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This person writes, I have hurt people
who I'm close to with my defensiveness

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in my unregulated state, which makes it
hard for them to co regulate with me.

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Distancing further from them and seeking
out those who can be a hundred percent

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for me without having any needs of
their own seems like a risky path.

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So every week I have an episode here
on the podcast, but in my community,

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every day we journal or brainstorm or
discuss the episode or the week's theme.

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And so last week the
theme was co regulation.

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And, well, self regulation as
well, I think with my community, I

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made it more about self regulation
leading to co regulation.

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And this person had responded to that.

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They're basically, if I can sum it
up, they've hurt somebody or people

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from their dysregulated traumatized
state, which makes it hard for that

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other person to co regulate with them.

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And yeah, that makes sense, right?

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So, they're saying distancing further
from them and finding other people who

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are more trustworthy seems difficult
or risky and yes, of course it is.

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By the way, you might hear, I have a
couple, or my children and their uncle

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are playing Mario Kart, so you might
hear them hollering in the background.

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So this brings to mind a number
of things for me, I'm going to

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try and handle these one by one.

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And the first one is, yeah, what
if you have actually hurt people

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in your life, expecting those
people to co regulate with you.

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And if you don't know what co regulation
is, listen to the previous episode of

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this podcast, and you'll get a nice
deep dive into what co regulation is.

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But the basic idea is it's not
just supporting each other, it's,

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and listening to each other.

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Co regulation is this
neurobiological communication

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happening between two mammals.

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That's the nerdy way to put it, but
basically we send signals to each

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other that help each other feel better.

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We'll put it that way.

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So if you've hurt people, if you've
wronged someone in your life, yeah,

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then they're probably not going to
be able to send you cues of safety.

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They're not going to be able
to send you warm and fuzzies.

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That's not going to happen, and it's
not realistic to expect that, right?

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When it comes to co regulation,
it's basically the giving and

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receiving of safety cues, or
at least giving of safety cues.

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And other person who's in more of a
defensive state, or mammal, in a more

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of a defensive state, they receive
them, and it helps them to get into

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their own safety state ideally.

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But it doesn't always
go that easy, easily.

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And one thing that might happen in
co regulation where you, maybe you're

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hanging out with someone and this is the
example I used in the last episode, you're

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hanging out with somebody chit chatting
and they stop and look at their phone.

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So that's called a rupture,
and it's really easy to repair.

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There's another thing that can
happen called misattunement.

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Misattunement is when you, you and the
other person that you're communicating

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with maybe, are in different states,
so you might be in a flight fight

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sympathetic state and the other person
is in a dorsal vagal shutdown state.

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You are in different states,
so you might be misattuned.

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The person in flight fight is going to
have a lot more energy in their system.

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The person in shutdown
is going to lack energy.

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We call that misattunement.

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Let's take it back to ruptures.

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To repair ruptures, it's pretty simple.

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You might just give an
apology, say my bad.

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You can smile, give eye crinkles and get
back on track and listen to that person.

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And you know, that that's usually enough.

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It's not, it's not that complex.

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But basically acknowledge the
hurts, empathize, listen, and

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provide them some space if needed.

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If you really hurt that person and
they need space, then that's fine.

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That might be part of repairing a rupture
is giving them a little bit of time on

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their own if it's something more serious.

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For misattunement where you're in
different States, they might need more

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space for a longer period of time.

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And that's okay.

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Especially someone who's in shutdown.

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Maybe not especially, but someone who's in
shutdown, they do well when they're alone.

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They kind of need quiet
and lower stimulation.

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Someone in flight fight, they also
need a lot of space potentially.

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So giving that person space to help
repair misattunement might be helpful.

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The other thing you can do to help out
with misattunement is self regulate.

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Access your own safety state.

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So that when you do interact with
that other person, you're going to

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offer them safety cues and really
start the process of co regulation.

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If that happens, then the other person
is more likely to be able to access

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their safety state from your safety cues.

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Let's backtrack to the
question that I got.

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It, it's probably unrealistic or
it's not realistic to expect co

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regulation from somebody that you have
flat out hurt or flat out wronged.

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That person is not going to
be able to provide you with

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adequate co regulation, probably.

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They're probably in rightfully
in a defensive state.

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They might have not just like
they're feeling upset, but like

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they're in more of a flight fight
state based on your actions.

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So the onus is really on you to
repair that relationship, to repair

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that rupture, to self regulate,
offer them co regulation, and

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hopefully repair the misattunement.

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It's up to you to begin that process.

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It's really not up to
them to do so for you.

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Although, yeah, they might, they might
be in a position to where they can self

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regulate through it, and You know, offer
to reconnect with you, dear listener.

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That might happen, and you actually
might be in that position where

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somebody wronged you in some way.

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They hurt you validly, or that's
valid, that you feel that way.

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I mean, and it's normal.

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You feel that way.

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So they, they may have hurt you
and they're not gonna be the one

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to start the process of healing
or, or repairing the relationship.

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And that might fall on you.

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And maybe you're not ready
for that, that's fine, but

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maybe you are ready for that.

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That is pretty darn common in my time
as a therapist working with my clients.

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A lot of times the people in their
life need therapy a lot more than

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they do, but they're not getting it.

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And so the person in therapy is
actually the one who's in a better

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position to begin to self regulate and
to begin to heal that relationship.

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It doesn't mean that the person's open to
it, but the one who was wronged or hurt.

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might be the one to start the process
of repairing the relationship, sadly.

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And, like I said, that might be true for
you, that might be part of your journey

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of healing, but that's totally up to
you and what you want to do with that.

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Ideally, though, I believe that the
one who has hurt another is the one

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to initiate some sort of repair.

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So then if that person that you have
harmed or hurt in some way, if they

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can't provide you co regulation, if
they can't self regulate and offer

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connection to you, do you abandon them
and do you try to find it somewhere else?

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And, you know, it depends and
I think the answer is maybe.

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Or maybe not, but, you know, maybe, maybe
you have created that much of a rupture

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and that much of a lasting misattunement.

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Maybe it is irreparable.

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And I think that is pretty common
with severe childhood abuse, neglect

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situations of kidnapping, torture,
all those extreme sort of examples.

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If you have CPTSD, your parent, your
caregiver who was supposed to do

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good enough for you, Uh, they didn't.

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So there may be something that's
irreparable there for you.

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Something that you cannot
uh, offer to repair.

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And I don't think it's up to you.

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So, do you move on from somebody that is
not able to provide you co regulation?

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Well, if you've done something
that heinous, then yeah.

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And they're not willing to repair it
with you, then maybe you do move on.

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And find connection and trust
and co regulation somewhere else.

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Maybe.

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But, also, maybe not.

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Maybe you do apologize.

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Maybe you do make amends.

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Maybe you do try to make it better.

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But I don't think it has to be
a process that goes on forever.

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I think you can definitely
make your attempts.

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Especially after you've self
regulated, you can make your attempts

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to try to repair the relationship.

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But if that person is not willing
to accept it, that is their choice.

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You can't force it upon someone.

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I don't, I don't think.

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So, offer up your attempts, and
if they're batted away repeatedly,

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then you've gotten your answer.

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The other thing that might happen is
that you're, if you're offering to make

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things better, the other person could
potentially take advantage of that.

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So if they're asking you to do something
that is sacrificing of your values,

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of your morals, of your dignity I
think it's okay to say no to that.

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But you know, basically,
you do the best you can.

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And if it's a no, it's a no.

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Eventually, after repeated no's, it's
out of your hands, and you need to

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eventually, I think, take solace in
the fact that you tried, even though

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you may have lost the relationship.

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If you can honestly say that you have
done the best you can to work on yourself,

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and offer to work on the relationship,
there's, there's something to that.

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So yeah, maybe, maybe you try to fix it.

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Maybe you don't try to fix it.

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If it's something that's irreparable,
maybe you try and do something

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better to make it fix it, but you
have a boundary you won't cross.

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Like you won't, you know, cross
your own or violate your own

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morals, your values, your dignity.

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I think it's fine too.

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When it comes to these relationships that
maybe you violated and hurt and left a

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lasting impact on, if you have regret,
if you have guilt, that's a good thing.

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Those feelings, those emotions
are there for a reason.

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They're telling you that you harmed
somebody, that you did something wrong.

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And that's a healthy response to
things when we, that we do wrong.

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It shows you have empathy.

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It shows that you care.

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If you were to harm somebody and
not feel guilty, not feel regret,

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that's more of a red flag for me.

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So listen to that.

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Use that regret.

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Use that guilt as motivation to
reach out, to apologize, to try and

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make a repair in the relationship.

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So all of that I think addresses
the first part of The question that

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was submitted to the community.

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I've hurt people who I'm close
to with my defensiveness in my

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unregulated state, which makes it
hard for them to co regulate with me.

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And it will be until the
relationship is repaired.

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So that's what it could look like.

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And I think that guilt and regret
are indications that we, or whoever's

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feeling those feelings, need to do
something to repair the relationship.

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Of course, Guilt can also be kind
of imposed upon you by another.

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So even though it feels like
guilt, it's not really because

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you did something wrong.

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It's just more like an unhealthy kind of
guilt that's lingering in your system.

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That, you know, that's something you'll
have to take stock of, basically.

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So this brings us to the second part
of the question, which is about seeking

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out others who might have Or it might
be a hundred percent on our side.

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Now, I don't know if that's a thing.

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I don't know if anyone has ever
a hundred percent on our side.

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I think that what they're trying to
say is that they're looking for people.

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Should I go look for people
that I can trust completely?

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Trust is earned.

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It's not something you're
going to find right away.

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It, it develops, it builds over time.

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So saying, I'm going to go find
someone I can trust or who's

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a hundred percent of my side.

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That is not going to be a short journey.

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I don't think.

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Co regulation can lead to trust.

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So those little moments that we
share with each other of safety

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that can over time lead to an
experience, an emotion of trust.

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Co regulation is the sharing of
safety cues with each other or

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from one to the other, at least.

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This leads to healthier relationships
and that will include trust.

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Co regulation by itself doesn't
require that you trust the person.

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I think that people view it or think of
it as the the moment of, like, discussion

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and supporting somebody else emotionally.

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That's what it can kind of look
like, but Co regulation is really

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like these micro moments of
exchanging safety with each other.

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So, a smile, you know, giving somebody
a genuine smile, eye crinkles,

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using your eyebrows, these are all
indications that I'm in a safety

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state and I can offer you safety.

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It doesn't require that you
trust me, it requires that

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you pick up on my safety cues.

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So, co regulation happens in micro
moments of unconscious communication.

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Repeated co regulation, I
think, can help build trust.

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I think actions are a
big part of that as well.

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But repeated co regulation can help
lead to trust, can help lead to

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connection, healthy attachments.

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If you're thinking about sharing with
somebody else and being vulnerable and

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opening up, yeah, that requires trust.

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Opening up to somebody else requires
trust built on co regulation.

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But I don't know if anyone's
going to ever be 100 percent

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for you or for somebody else.

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And I don't think we
should expect that either.

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I think that other people will always
have their own needs, their own agendas.

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I don't think we should be expecting
somebody to be completely for us.

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And honestly, the people that are,
Truly, I think supportive and quote

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00:13:42,263 --> 00:13:44,303
unquote on our side, on our side.

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I think that that support
can also be challenging.

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It can be them expecting us to do better.

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It doesn't mean that they're going to
hold our hand while we self destruct.

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It might mean that they back
off and, and, and say, I can't

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be a part of this anymore.

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It could also be them saying.

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You know, pushing us to do better with
our life, to make better choices, to

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challenge ourself to grow in some way.

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I think people who are supportive
and loving can do those things.

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I don't think that trust looks like
agreement with whatever it is you

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want to do with your life necessarily.

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Actually I know, I know it
doesn't because I have my, my kid,

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I'm completely on my kid side.

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my children's side, but that doesn't
mean that I support all their choices.

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If they choose to not do well in
school, that is not acceptable.

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I love them so much that I
will not allow that to happen.

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They, they must do better in school.

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Failure is not an option.

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If I was spoiling my kids and wanted
to be their friend, then yeah, I'd

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probably let it slide, but that is not
the standard we have in our household.

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So, you know, does anyone ever
have 100 percent on their side?

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I don't think it looks like the
way one might think it looks like.

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So let's go back to the
question hurt people.

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They can't provide co regulation.

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Should I seek somebody else out and
try to find trust and co regulation?

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And, you know, maybe, but Cause, you
know, co regulation is very needed.

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We need that.

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We need each other, but the place you
start might be with self regulation.

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You might work on yourself
first without trying to get co

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00:15:23,493 --> 00:15:24,823
regulation from somebody else.

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00:15:25,113 --> 00:15:30,043
I'm kind of worried about that idea
of I burned these relationships and

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00:15:30,043 --> 00:15:32,053
now they can't co regulate with me.

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00:15:32,443 --> 00:15:35,693
Let me go find new relationships
that are of people that are

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completely for me and on my side.

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And I don't know if that's what
that person meant when they

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00:15:39,683 --> 00:15:41,793
wrote it, but that's how I'm,
that's where I'm going with this.

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That idea concerns me.

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00:15:43,783 --> 00:15:47,053
We can't just jump around from
relationship to relationship

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00:15:47,053 --> 00:15:50,133
without working on ourselves first.

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00:15:50,143 --> 00:15:54,373
We can't bring the best version of us
to a new relationship unless we have

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00:15:54,603 --> 00:15:56,163
developed it, unless we've worked on it.

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00:15:56,413 --> 00:16:00,313
So even though, yeah, we all need co
regulation, you might not have it in

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00:16:00,313 --> 00:16:01,763
your life and that it is what it is.

294
00:16:02,013 --> 00:16:05,323
So, you do the best you can to
start off with self regulation.

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00:16:05,663 --> 00:16:09,663
In the episode I did on co regulation,
I had some ideas on what you can do if

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00:16:09,663 --> 00:16:13,303
you don't have co regulation in your life
but basically just keep it really simple.

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00:16:13,553 --> 00:16:16,333
Connect with people that have shared
interests if you can uh, connect

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00:16:16,333 --> 00:16:19,903
with people in your life or develop
relationships in your life where

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00:16:19,903 --> 00:16:21,833
there's a little something, put
a little more time to it maybe.

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00:16:21,833 --> 00:16:25,383
You might be able to accept professional
co regulation from a therapist

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00:16:25,393 --> 00:16:27,393
or a community that you're in.

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00:16:27,643 --> 00:16:31,413
In my online community, we don't have
co regulation because it's all digital.

303
00:16:31,413 --> 00:16:32,363
We don't quite see each other.

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00:16:32,363 --> 00:16:35,293
I mean, we do have the meetups,
but when we communicate in the,

305
00:16:35,783 --> 00:16:38,383
in the forum, it's text on screen.

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00:16:38,383 --> 00:16:40,863
So it's not co regulation, but.

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00:16:41,113 --> 00:16:43,943
This week we had called, I was talking
with one person and we called it

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00:16:44,053 --> 00:16:48,123
virtual connection, I think it is, but
basically it's not true co regulation,

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00:16:48,123 --> 00:16:49,473
but it is a sense of connection.

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00:16:49,523 --> 00:16:52,873
So maybe you can't get co
regulation, but can you get a

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00:16:52,873 --> 00:16:55,613
sense of connection from somewhere
that might be better than nothing.

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00:16:55,863 --> 00:16:59,093
But what it comes down to is eventually
self regulation might be where

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00:16:59,093 --> 00:17:02,653
you need to go, and that might be
the first step as well, honestly.

314
00:17:02,903 --> 00:17:06,853
So if you can self regulate and
access more of your polyvagal safety

315
00:17:06,853 --> 00:17:08,463
state, it's going to help out a lot.

316
00:17:08,523 --> 00:17:12,493
That's going to help you to make
amends for the past, to take ownership

317
00:17:12,503 --> 00:17:16,323
over what you've done, reach out to
someone, offer apologies, try and

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00:17:16,323 --> 00:17:21,313
make things better with, while holding
strong boundaries and never sacrificing

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00:17:21,313 --> 00:17:23,803
your, your values and your dignity.

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00:17:24,053 --> 00:17:25,853
You'll be able to
empathize with that person.

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00:17:25,853 --> 00:17:27,413
You'll be able to act from compassion.

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00:17:27,433 --> 00:17:31,233
Eventually, as you build self
regulation, these things become options.

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00:17:31,483 --> 00:17:34,423
Self regulation is not easy to do.

324
00:17:34,433 --> 00:17:34,743
It does.

325
00:17:34,763 --> 00:17:36,153
It's a, it's a long process.

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00:17:36,153 --> 00:17:37,713
It doesn't happen overnight.

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00:17:37,963 --> 00:17:42,723
One thing you can do is to start
to build a, an environment within

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00:17:42,723 --> 00:17:46,153
your home that feels safer than not.

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00:17:46,403 --> 00:17:48,713
This is actually the first
thing I recommend in my

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00:17:48,713 --> 00:17:49,803
building safety anchors course.

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00:17:49,813 --> 00:17:53,283
And I walk you through how to do that with
a whole bunch of environmental pieces.

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00:17:53,533 --> 00:17:58,513
But if you can build an environment that
feels safer than not, that sets you up

333
00:17:58,513 --> 00:18:03,423
with passive safety cues, passive safety
cues, just provide this steady stream.

334
00:18:03,433 --> 00:18:05,113
It's a foundation you can build off of.

335
00:18:05,533 --> 00:18:07,783
And then once you have the
foundation, then you can use more

336
00:18:07,803 --> 00:18:10,433
active self regulation techniques.

337
00:18:10,683 --> 00:18:14,043
Building safety anchors is actually
part of my total access membership.

338
00:18:14,043 --> 00:18:16,083
I'll have a link for you in the
description if you wanna learn

339
00:18:16,083 --> 00:18:20,533
more about that, but basically it's
total access to my private community

340
00:18:20,783 --> 00:18:22,943
and my trauma recovery courses.

341
00:18:22,943 --> 00:18:26,913
All three of 'em for one
low subscription price.

342
00:18:27,163 --> 00:18:29,403
Again, check the link in the
description, I'll have that,

343
00:18:29,403 --> 00:18:30,263
you can learn more about it.

344
00:18:30,513 --> 00:18:35,993
I'm really worried about the idea
of seeking out co regulation from

345
00:18:36,243 --> 00:18:38,913
dysregulated, from a dysregulated place.

346
00:18:38,913 --> 00:18:43,563
I'm worried about seeking out
co regulation from desperation.

347
00:18:43,833 --> 00:18:48,083
If you're desperate for connection,
which you might be fully entitled

348
00:18:48,083 --> 00:18:49,263
to be, there's no judgment here.

349
00:18:49,513 --> 00:18:52,463
But if you're desperate for connection
and you're looking for somebody else.

350
00:18:52,848 --> 00:18:56,378
To make it better, to make
you feel better, to fix your

351
00:18:56,378 --> 00:18:59,608
problems, that is probably not
going to end up anywhere healthy.

352
00:18:59,858 --> 00:19:03,538
That might end up leading to more
hurt for somebody else when they

353
00:19:03,808 --> 00:19:05,208
don't live up to what you want.

354
00:19:05,458 --> 00:19:10,668
But it also could lead you to
yourself being hurt when someone

355
00:19:10,718 --> 00:19:12,978
exploits your desperation.

356
00:19:13,228 --> 00:19:15,588
So that really concerns me, and
again, I don't know if that's what

357
00:19:15,588 --> 00:19:18,228
this person was intending, but
that's where my mind goes with it.

358
00:19:18,478 --> 00:19:21,538
So, for now, build safety in
your home as much as you can.

359
00:19:21,788 --> 00:19:25,948
Find safe and predictable avenues of
connection with others, and if that's

360
00:19:25,948 --> 00:19:30,848
just through community, that's something,
but if it's through simple exchanges

361
00:19:30,848 --> 00:19:36,438
with family, friends, acquaintances,
co workers, a therapist, that's

362
00:19:36,448 --> 00:19:41,888
fine too, like, as you notice those
opportunities for co regulation, really

363
00:19:41,898 --> 00:19:45,468
mindfully experience them or think
back on it later on in the day and

364
00:19:45,478 --> 00:19:48,188
try to experience them all over again.

365
00:19:48,438 --> 00:19:51,458
So like I said at the beginning, this
is kind of all replaced, my mind went

366
00:19:51,468 --> 00:19:55,548
different places with this question,
which I think all connect and relate,

367
00:19:55,938 --> 00:19:57,968
but yeah, it's kind of smattering.

368
00:19:58,278 --> 00:20:01,338
I did say I have a huge announcement
and that huge announcement is

369
00:20:01,338 --> 00:20:06,316
that I created A free resource
for you it is called StucknautBot.

370
00:20:06,336 --> 00:20:09,926
It's an artificial intelligence
that is trained on my brain.

371
00:20:09,926 --> 00:20:14,876
Basically, all the information from
this podcast, all the information

372
00:20:14,896 --> 00:20:18,886
from my blog has been transcribed.

373
00:20:19,381 --> 00:20:25,061
For this ai, it was a tremendous amount
of work, but basically I transcribed

374
00:20:25,061 --> 00:20:29,481
everything and then I refined that
knowledge, and I'm still in that process

375
00:20:29,481 --> 00:20:37,081
actually, but I, I formatted the knowledge
to be formatted for an ai, and then I told

376
00:20:37,081 --> 00:20:39,181
that AI how it should behave with you.

377
00:20:39,181 --> 00:20:43,321
So when you chat with it, you can
ask it whatever you want, as long as

378
00:20:43,321 --> 00:20:47,501
it's something I cover here, it'll
be able to talk with you and share

379
00:20:47,501 --> 00:20:51,841
more information, teach you about the
political theory or whatever else you

380
00:20:51,841 --> 00:20:54,991
want to know about, at least as long
as it's stuff that I cover and it'll

381
00:20:54,991 --> 00:20:57,111
connect you to helpful resources as well.

382
00:20:57,361 --> 00:20:59,801
I have launched it to my email list.

383
00:20:59,921 --> 00:21:03,421
I've had about 80 people try
it out and gotten some really

384
00:21:03,421 --> 00:21:04,711
good feedback on it so far.

385
00:21:04,961 --> 00:21:06,021
People seem to be liking it.

386
00:21:06,271 --> 00:21:09,951
So as of right now, it is at a
point where you can play around

387
00:21:09,951 --> 00:21:13,711
with it and hopefully have a good
experience, but it's not quite done.

388
00:21:13,731 --> 00:21:15,251
I'm still refining the knowledge.

389
00:21:15,251 --> 00:21:17,741
That's a process that's
going to go on for a while.

390
00:21:17,991 --> 00:21:21,871
And basically every time I add a new
episode like this one, I will update

391
00:21:22,251 --> 00:21:25,511
the AI with brand new knowledge as well.

392
00:21:25,761 --> 00:21:29,121
So it's basically it's knowledge
base will always grow as long as

393
00:21:29,121 --> 00:21:31,221
I'm putting out new information.

394
00:21:31,471 --> 00:21:35,241
So, if you want to give StucknautBot a
try, I'll have a link in the description.

395
00:21:35,451 --> 00:21:38,251
Sign up for my email list and
you'll get access to it right away.

396
00:21:38,501 --> 00:21:40,931
But so far it's really cool and
it's only going to get better.

397
00:21:41,191 --> 00:21:42,321
Can't wait for you to try it out.

398
00:21:42,571 --> 00:21:46,131
Fellow Stucknaut I really hope this
episode has been helpful for you in,

399
00:21:46,341 --> 00:21:50,411
you know, thinking about repairing your
relationships or building them or what

400
00:21:50,411 --> 00:21:51,621
you can do different in the future.

401
00:21:52,091 --> 00:21:52,371
Bye.

402
00:21:52,621 --> 00:21:56,041
This podcast is not therapy,
not intended to be therapy or

403
00:21:56,041 --> 00:21:57,531
be a replacement for therapy.

404
00:21:57,781 --> 00:22:00,821
Nothing in this creates or indicates
a therapeutic relationship.

405
00:22:01,071 --> 00:22:04,361
Please consult with your therapist or
seek for one in your area if you are

406
00:22:04,361 --> 00:22:06,161
experiencing mental health symptoms.

407
00:22:06,411 --> 00:22:09,671
Nothing in this podcast should be
construed to be specific life advice.

408
00:22:09,811 --> 00:22:12,741
It is for educational and
entertainment purposes only.

409
00:22:12,991 --> 00:22:15,871
More resources are available in
the description of this episode

410
00:22:15,901 --> 00:22:16,981
and in the footer of justinlmft.

411
00:22:17,231 --> 00:22:17,571
com.