W. Curtis Preston: hi, and welcome to Backup Central's ReSTOR all podcast.
I'm host w Curtis Preston, aka Mr.
Backup, and I have with me my floor laminate water damage consultant
Prasanna Malaiyandi, how's it going?
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Oh no.
What got water damage?
I didn't know I was a water damage expert now.
Oh, no.
What happened, curtis?
W. Curtis Preston: call out to you.
You, you're all I have.
You're all I have, uh, no.
So, you know, as you may know, you know, obviously I, you know, I've
continued on with the project.
I've finished putting the, the, um, the luxury vinyl planks there in the kitchen.
And apparently there was a little water incident while I was gone.
Uh, my son-in-law, uh, is telling me there's water underneath
the brand new laid down panels.
Um, so I, I don't, I actually don't know what I'm going home to.
I'm a little,
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Do you
think, is it like in the spot of the dishwasher?
W. Curtis Preston: down again.
What's that?
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Is it by the dishwasher?
by the fridge.
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.
Yeah, it's by the dishwasher.
Yeah.
And we shut off the, we shut off the water and stuff, but he says
that he feels water, like he can
Prasanna Malaiyandi: It's further down.
W. Curtis Preston: I don't know I don't know if he
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Uh,
W. Curtis Preston: what he is talking about, but I hope he doesn't know
what he is talking about, because otherwise I gotta pull up the, all
the flooring and then let everything dry and then put everything back down.
But everything's all cut so it's not, you know, I just gotta, Keep
it all in a row or whatever, but
Prasanna Malaiyandi: not the news you were hoping
for
W. Curtis Preston: want, I wanted the kitchen to be done, right?
I, I finished the kitchen and then I went on this little trip, which by
the way, for those of you watching, well, for those of you listening, I
probably sound a little bit different.
I don't have my usual mic and those of you watching, uh, I look,
this is just a lame camera angle.
This is, you know, standard laptop on a desk.
This is not what anybody wants to.
Looking up my nostrils, but it is what it is.
I need to, uh, mention our standard disclaimer that persona and I
work for different companies.
I work for Druva, he works for Zoom.
And, uh, this is not an official podcast of either company.
The opinions that you hear are all ours and be sure to, uh, to.
To rate us at your favorite podcaster, give us all the
stars, give us the comments.
We love the comments, and we love even more to have a comment
from you, like reach out to us.
You can reach me at w Curtis Preston gmail or at WC Preston on what is still Twitter.
We'll see if Twitter is still around here in a few months.
But, uh, It is what it is, but, um, and, uh, if you'd like to join the
conversation, just, uh, reach out to me and we'll make that happen.
Um, so we're just gonna move forward with our guests today.
Who, you know, I started out, I was on his podcast, I'm happy to bring him on ours.
Uh, he's been in the risk management space for many years, which is
a real, like a, it's like an adjunct space, I think to, to ours.
He's the founder and CEO of Global Risk Community.
He's the host of the Risk Management Podcast.
Welcome to the podcast Boris.
Agranovich.
Boris Agranovich: Thank you, thank you.
And for inviting me to this, uh, amazing podcast.
You were actually few months back on my, uh, podcast the risk management show,
and it was, uh, great, great experience.
Uh, and now, uh, kinda audience, uh, uh, put a lot of, uh, Views
on your podcast, uh, episode, so I
am very happy.
First of all, from my name and my accent, probably you will know that I was, uh,
originally from, uh, this part of the world where now, uh, war is going on.
So I was born in Ukraine now, and I studied in Russia.
Came to Israel and now I live in the Netherlands.
So , it's a little bit a mix.
Uh, and I started in IT space and I, uh, then I moved more to, to banking.
Banking, uh, like, uh, uh, insurance company, finance in banks.
And I worked there on a kind of, Um, angle, like I put, uh, it angle into
risk management business and, uh, because it banks were kinda in nineties
and, uh, in beginning of 2000, have to be, to put some, a lot of it system
to, uh, Upgrade the risk management.
So I was a kind business analyst and then I became a risk manager.
So in 20, I think 20, 20 10, I became, um, independent consultant.
And when I had some pause in my assignments and wanted to, uh, kind
of started to communicate with my peers all over the world, but it.
Difficult with current tools and one best tool I found was LinkedIn, but
it still kind provided a lot of noise.
So I decided create to create a community for, uh, Like-minded people.
So I created this global risk community.com, which I initially wanted
to, uh, uh, to create as a kinda front office of my, uh, consultant business.
But it kind of grew, grew, and now it has more than, Total, I
think a hundred thousand people.
So I, I'm concentrated mostly, uh, mainly on the growing of this site.
Not on my consulting and risk management, but I'm on kind of, On the
front, on the front page, as we say on the front page of both website and
events, what happening in community.
Although I'm not in the trenches as in the past, but I'm more kind in conversation
like with you and other guys in the space.
So I can tell you a little bit more about, uh, what happening in our industry.
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.
Uh, you know, before we talk about risk management, I, I'm just curious.
You know, I, I've, I've born and raised in, you know, the US right?
And here you pretty much need to speak one language, but you have lived in.
different, very different languages.
Right.
So you have, you have Russian, you have, um, you know, uh, Hebrew, you have, uh,
Dutch, and you mentioned you speak, so you speak a little bit of each of those,
Boris Agranovich: Yeah, actually I speak Russian, even Ukrainian also
because I was born in Ukrainian.
So
W. Curtis Preston: right.
Boris Agranovich: when I was there it kind of, uh, uh, was.
Considerate kind sub language.
But now because of Ukrainians growing, it is now kind independent language.
So you can say, now I'm proud that I can mention Ukrainian as my language
additional, because before that it was kinda a subset of Russian
language, but uh, it's separate word.
I, for 25 years and I moved to Israel, I had to, to study some
another language and I studied.
I lived in Israel and worked in IT company.
Then I moved, uh, to Europe.
To the Netherlands where I have to start, uh, from my Israeli company.
So I started Dutch little bit, but English was on background, so English remained.
Uh, little bit on third language.
Uh, But I still, uh, I like more Latino, so I, uh, I studied little
bit Spanish also, not, not perfectly, but enough to, to go to a vacation
and, uh, not to be afraid of, uh, stage things, uh, happening to me.
W. Curtis Preston: So you, you can, you can converse in all those languages.
Boris Agranovich: Uh, yeah.
Yeah.
On basic levels.
Yeah, on basic levels.
W. Curtis Preston: I find, I find that fascinating.
That's just, that's just absolutely amazing.
Boris Agranovich: Yeah, it's a good for risk management.
It's good for risk management,
Prasanna Malaiyandi: I was gonna say with all the countries,
a dial, X-ray or languages.
Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah.
Yeah.
And uh, I think I told you, you know, that, I mean, my, my Russian is very small
things like Bre and, and, and, right.
Um, , I have that, that phrase leftover from the eighties.
Boris Agranovich: uh, 30 years ago in T, but uh, in Russia, it uh, kinda
of degradated, uh, other a direction.
Yeah,
W. Curtis Preston: And I believe in, in, um, Ukrainian, you say, right?
Uh, instead of,
Boris Agranovich: it.
W. Curtis Preston: yeah.
Yeah.
Um, it probably doesn't even register for you.
You just sort of do it.
Boris Agranovich: No, I know know now because of this war, I
listen more Ukrainian news, so my Ukrainian was is is kinda a
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Uh,
Boris Agranovich: restoring in my, my, my mind.
Yeah.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Awesome.
W. Curtis Preston: right.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: So I, I think one of the questions I had is, I know
when you, when I saw that, oh, you're focused on risk management, I was like,
what is risk management right now?
Boris Agranovich: Yeah, good question.
I'm, I'm not sure that I, I can get, get you, give you all kind
of, uh, uh, uh, academic answer.
But for my, uh, my knowledge, uh, as, uh, layman in layman
terms, if you have your business.
It's kind of you looking forward and to how much you earn.
But you also need to, uh, kind of be a person who knows what can be wrong
in your business so you can, uh, take action when it's, when they are needed
to, uh, protect your, uh, bottom line and also catastrophic events for.
What can happen, you can be financial, you can be exposed to financial risk, you
can be exposed to operational risk, you can be exposed to, uh, governance risk.
If you don't do some procedures and uh, some regulations, you
can be exposed to cyber risk.
And I believe there is now also climate risk.
So this kind of risks, you have to, depending on.
Complexity of your business, you, you have to manage all these risks
and depending of, for example, if you are a bank, you probably will have.
Different, uh, risks inside financial risks.
For example, banks have, uh, creditors, they have, uh, they
have, uh, also market risk.
If they trade different currency, they have, uh, within credit risk,
they also have counterparty risk.
So it's kind of becoming a very, very complicated and all this, um, models now
with all this mathematical models and, uh, Of, uh, AI and ml, this is becoming
very, uh, uh, very, uh, strictly, uh, uh, divided because some, some guys
only, uh, specialized in model risk.
In cont model models, uh, developing models in counterparty risks.
Some guys are, uh, specializing in developing.
Ed risk.
So this all, all, uh, very contr, uh, contemplated.
W. Curtis Preston: that, that phrase that you used, you said counterparty risk.
Boris Agranovich: Counterpart, for example, you now you have this
now crisis with crypto, right?
Uh, crypto exchanges, right?
And because they were a counterparty with other guys.
That probably didn't get, uh, any wrong, but cause they, uh, probably, uh,
failed to deliver, uh, to pay on loans.
A lot of, uh, uh, their counterparties exposed to counterparty risk,
uh, from this FDX exchange.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: they're not directly at risk, but because they were associated
through some lineage, they're at risk now.
Boris Agranovich: Exactly.
Yeah.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: So I'm just thinking though, that like as a company owner,
a business owner, you're so focused on building the business, right?
Who even thinks about all of these risks out there?
Like Curtis, I know you had a business
before, right?
?Yeah, Yeah, I know Boris does, but Curtis like, Been business owner before.
Have you thought about these things?
W. Curtis Preston: Not, certainly not in the way that, that Boris did.
I mean, we, we mainly thought about, I don't know, I, I think I thought about.
Things that I felt I had some, no, I felt some things that I
felt I had some control over.
Right.
Um, and the risks mainly for me at the time were financial risks.
Um, the, there was the concern because we were such a small company.
There was the concern, there was the competitive risk of, of a, you
know, a, a much larger competitor, basically deciding to get into
the same business that we were in.
Um, but the thing is, I was such, I was such small potatoes that, like,
considering them a risk was almost, it, it was like, I just, you know what I mean?
It's like, um, I don't know.
It's hard to, hard to describe, but I, I don't think I thought
about it certainly in the way that, that Boris thinks about it.
I, you know, and of course I'm a backup guy, so I think about those risks.
Boris Agranovich: Ah.
Yeah, it's part of, I think, cyber risk or it risk, I think, and what you talk about.
Uh uh, uh, sorry, I may be interrupt.
Uh, but what you said about it is business risk.
What you say, what, what, what is related to competitors or your business?
Um, business plans or business?
Uh, kind of, uh, uh, product products.
Uh, we call it, uh, business risk.
We don't put it in the category for kind of finance it cyber, so it's kinda
business rules that actually shouldn't be only, uh, Processed by risk people,
they should be kinda processed by, uh, business people, but they have
to be, uh, supported by risk people.
So they, if you produce a new product, product, for example,
risk people have to look on it.
What is it about maybe some regulatory risk or credit
risk or some, some other risk?
W. Curtis Preston: Mm-hmm.
Interesting.
And so as a, so I'm assuming at a.
A company would have a risk manager, right?
Would, each like, I don't know how large a company would be before
they have a risk manager, like an employee versus a risk management
Prasanna Malaiyandi: It.
It probably also depends on the industry.
Like I could imagine a financial company, even if they're small,
They probably have a risk function in there versus like a tech company
may not do it until it's a certain.
Boris Agranovich: Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, because I was originally from banking in the insurance industry.
So this is where, uh, they have to, uh, have a risk management, even department
of risk management, where they all will do, they develop all these models for
this, uh, different types of, uh, risk.
Uh, and they have to kind of contact, uh, my regular with the regulators about
all these new rules, uh, like socks and.
But now I think many other companies, uh, also develop risk management department.
I think, uh, for example, if you look at health and safety industry,
there are also kind health and.
Separate probably, um, division of risk management.
And they have to, they have all their own, their own kinda regulators.
Also, if you look at, uh, industry and now with climate change is all
related also with this compliance.
So, uh, although risk and compliance or very often different, uh, different,
uh, disciplines, they sometimes kinda, uh, glued together to.
Have a kinda based basic kinda risk management or compliance
department in some, some topics.
So they, for example, if a new, uh, and compliance procedure arises
from, uh, from regulation, they have to up and develop response.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah.
I, I'm also just thinking like, so I work worse in privacy, right?
And so anytime you have like regulators or when decisions get made right
now, it's like, okay, how does that impact everything else that's being.
Or that has been built already.
Right.
And what is the risk there associated with some of those?
Um, I guess the one question I had for you, Boris, is so I
understand like there's people who go thinking about the risks.
Can you talk a little bit about like, why should people even
care about these risks, right?
Like, what are, what's the outcome if they ignore these risks or if they
didn't have a risk manager or something?
Boris Agranovich: Yeah, it depends, of course, if you are a small business,
uh, you don't have to have a specific risk management role, uh, in your.
Company, but at least you have to manage your risks yourself.
For example, maybe you have a kind small understanding of what your risks are.
Maybe you have an account and accounted and he will talk or
she will talk to you of business.
It'll enough.
For example, you know you have a pay, you have credit cause you, you
have invoices probably you have some days from your invoices and probably
it'll be about maybe one month.
And some big companies they don't even pay after three months.
So it's uh, kinda shame.
And some people have to, to manage their invoices and
probably liquidity so they don't,
invoices don't.
W. Curtis Preston: that that was.
That was one thing I remember as a small company, I, I often did business
with very large companies and we were doing, you know, we would be sending
an invoice and we're doing an, we were putting on events an event.
When you put on events, it's very costly and so we wanted as much as
possible for the customers to pay up front and many of them would, and our
contract would specify that they're supposed to, but those bigger companies,
Yeah, I know we're not gonna do that.
And what are you gonna do?
Do you want our money?
You want our, you want our money in 90 days or do you want no money?
Right.
And you have, you have no power to, uh, You know, I remember,
like, I remember one time when I, I showed them our, our msa, right?
Our master services agreement, this one vendor, and they're like, that's cute.
Here's ours, sign it, or, you know, walk.
Boris Agranovich: Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston: was like, oh, okay.
Well I guess we're signing their msa, right?
And they're like, we do a net 180, right?
You.
Boris Agranovich: Uh, wow.
Yeah, I know these companies, but now I think, uh, regulators in Europe
at least, they kind of demand, uh, demand that, uh, these days, uh, uh,
payment days will be less, I think it's now standard 30 days in, in Europe.
Uh, so, uh, kind of small guys also have more, uh, uh, power.
Because, yeah, it's one of the biggest risks if you do an event like this.
And do you, you have to pay from your pocket.
And do you have a liquidity issue with don't, you're not to pay your for a a,
W. Curtis Preston: remember sitting there often sitting there with over a
hundred thousand dollars in receivables.
Very little in the bank.
Meanwhile, I need to make payroll.
Right.
Um, I'll tell you, I did, we had, we did have a clause in our contract,
um, and it's a, um, it's a company that persona that you and I both know,
obviously I'm not gonna shame 'em on the podcast, but they were, they
were a company that I worked with.
And what it was, was I had a clause and a contract that said after 30
days we start adding, it was like 1%.
To the invoice, um, that it was like, it was like it was either 1% or half
a percent per day to the invoice after, after a certain period of
time, it might have been 60 days.
Right.
And there was this one customer I had that, um, they were blowing
me off and, um, I, uh, I kept, I kept sending them updated invoices.
I'm like, your invoice is now a hundred percent more.
, you know, because of compounded penalties and at some point it got to
actually 150% of the original value, you know, or 250%, if you will, of
the original value of the invoice.
And they were blowing me off and then they got acquired or
they were going to get acquired.
By a company.
And I was like, oh, this is like, if I don't, I gotta do it now, right?
If I don't fix it now.
And I, um, I went and I went to, uh, there used to be this
company called, uh, jigsaw.
The, then it got acquired by Salesforce.
That was like where you could go and you could just easily get the, you
know, some key names from company.
And I went and I got the ceo, the cfo.
The chairman of the board and I got all their contact information and
then I sent them registered letters and emails and, and everything, and
I basically said, I have a contract with your name on it, and you have not
contested a contract you now owe me.
I mean, it went from like $18,000 to $40,000.
And, and, um, and you're about to be acquired.
And I have this, this is a, this is a lie against your company essentially.
Amazingly, I got a FedEx the next day with a check with a check for $40,000.
That
Boris Agranovich: No, you don't pay lawyers
W. Curtis Preston: day.
Yeah.
That was a good, that was a good day.
Um, so there was something else that you and I talked about in the pre-call.
You mentioned this thing you have called the, the, um, darn it.
What did you call it?
Boris Agranovich: We, we, we have a, we as a global risk community,
we often create kind of products kind emanating from our community.
So we created a GRC business, continue to tool it, which you are probably,
you are interested, your users can find on our cited Global Risk Academy.
Don't come.
So yeah, this is the.
W. Curtis Preston: am really curious when we talk about, I always talk about
data protection and backup, and Dr.
And I always mention that that is a component.
Of business continuance overall.
So I am curious from your vantage point, besides the idea of recovering
your computing environment, what else does somebody need to have
in a business continuance plan?
Boris Agranovich: Yeah, absolutely.
So, um, I will tell you that, uh, our two kit contains, uh,
different various, um, kind of.
Document.
For example, we have business impact analysis questionnaire.
So you will have to go through all your inventories and do some work.
Then you have a BCP template, which is a business continuity plan template.
So you will have to, to work through all this, uh, processes
and, uh, figure out what is, uh, important, what is less important.
Then we have business continuity, uh, recovery, uh, questionnaire.
And then we have a business, uh, uh, procedures like, uh,
business risk analysis template.
So it's all very documented based on the best practices in banks and
very, uh, sophisticated institution.
So we have also Chris crisis management plan that actually when we spoke about
with you, with small companies, I think it's this plan should be available for.
Even for small companies.
So also sample, uh, sample vulnerability chart with all this appliances and uh, big
machinery that you have should be there.
So it's kind of a complete scoring methodology that will help, uh, even
uh, people who are not, um, familiar with this, uh, uh, discipline.
They can download it and they can just, uh, start from scratch filling it.
Uh, and also it's has some glossary, so, For terms, people who don't know
anything can, uh, can uh, see, see what, what is the important stuff.
So also technology recovery plan there.
So this is all.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: I, I'm thinking this is super helpful for
people who aren't aware, right?
Of what risk is and what question should they be even trying to find the answers
for, because they may not be, it's like, When you're like, your insurance carrier
says, oh, how much insurance do you want?
You're like, I don't know how much insurance I need.
What are the questions I should be asking?
Right?
To figure that out.
And it looks like this toolkit sort of helps you go through and answer
those questions and figure out, okay, where do I potentially have risks?
And, oh, I may not have thought about crisis management like Curtis, for when
you had your small company, did you have a plan in place in case someone got sick or.
flight got missed, like when you're going to an event,
right?
W. Curtis Preston: yeah.
Flight got, yeah, flight got missed, but, but like I, I was the main
speaker at these events that we put on.
There was no plan for Curtis gets sick, right.
Curtis gets.
Curtis gets covid and there's no speaker.
Um, the, we, we had, we had all kinds of, uh, travel issues
over the, over the years, right?
Because we were often.
It was Monday morning was always a difficult, cuz we do a, we do an event
on Tuesday, we'd do an event on Thursday.
We would fly, you know, so we're flying on the very first flight on a Monday morning.
Again, managing risk.
The risk was that the flight you're on is delayed and or canceled.
And so, You might wanna fly in the afternoon, but if that flight is delayed,
you're not making it to the city.
So we would fly out on the first available flight, even if that was
six in the morning, and we would fly to to, to wherever we were going.
That was the biggest risk, was that the entire, cuz we're all in, we all lived in
San Diego, we were all in the same flight.
If that flight was delayed.
There was no event happening.
Right.
Um, there was no backup team.
There was no, there was no nothing.
And, um, and I, I remember, um, uh, probably the worst thing
that happened to us while we were traveling, we landed in, um, Houston.
Yeah, I'm talking to you Houston.
I will never forget this.
I landed, we landed in Houston and we went to go to dinner
and we weren't, um, we weren't.
Paying attention.
And we had our backpacks in the backseat and we went to dinner and they broke
in and they stole all our backpacks.
So they stole all three laptops, all three iPads.
So we had to do the event like we had, everything was in like Google Docs and
what not, but we had no laptops to get to Google Docs like we were doing, we were
doing stuff on phones and stuff like that.
Um, But the, yeah, that was, I think that's the worst
thing that happened to it.
That one and the time when I went to go, it was the morning before
we're, you know, we're getting ready to travel and we had these two cases
of equipment that we always traveled with and um, uh, I won't say who, but.
She might be the singer on the theme song of this podcast who left the garage
door open with my equipment in the garage and someone stole all my equipment.
And I, I found that out the day before the show.
So, no, we never had a backup plan.
Um, you know, the backup plan was we don't have an.
Boris Agranovich: Mm-hmm.
W. Curtis Preston: Um, that's just, that's just the way.
So cur this, this, uh, this toolkit that you're talking about
is this, do they pay for this?
Resources is a free resource.
How, how does that work?
Boris Agranovich: No, it's, it's actually paid the resource.
Uh, they can find it on Global Risk Academy.
It's,
uh, yeah, it's 1, 1 79, uh, US dollars.
But I think if you, if they wanted to have some initial, uh, uh, free
resources, we have a lot of them on our site at, uh, also at Global Risk
Academy as a core site and on global risk, global risk community.com as
a kinda block event site, uh, whole.
W. Curtis Preston: So it's global risk academy.com,
Boris Agranovich: global risk Academy is a kind of course site, uh, online
courses for our community people.
Normally we,
W. Curtis Preston: sure it's, it's global risk academy.com.
Boris Agranovich: yeah, global risk
academy.com.
W. Curtis Preston: Okay.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: So if people wanted to just learn more about risk
management, they could probably go to the global risk community website, right?
To read the blogs, understand more about it.
Boris Agranovich: They can go, they can read it free, even if
they don't want to be a member.
But if they become, if they become member, it's free.
And then you will, they will get, uh, once per week newsletter, which they
can also unsubscribe if they don't want to have a lot of emails in their box.
But, uh, in, in mainly this is, uh, because.
Important.
They, they can read the blogs, they can participate in a lot of events.
We and our partners produce and also read some partnership, um, posts, for
example, guys, uh, produce some research and some, uh, kind of benchmark reports.
So this all we deliver on our.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: I was just curious.
I know Boris, you talked about sort of climate risk.
Is that something that's new and like an up and coming research area or risk area
that people have to now start considering?
Boris Agranovich: Yeah, I think for big companies.
And now with all this esg, uh, uh, you know, isg, what do you call it?
Environment, um, uh,
Prasanna Malaiyandi: The environment sustainability
Boris Agranovich: oh, sustainability and, uh,
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah.
Boris Agranovich: Governance, I think, or something like this, uh, because it's now
on govern government level over the world.
They decide, uh, kinda, uh, co2, uh, emission plans to, uh, stop
trying to stop climate, uh, change.
And, uh, it's to have a lot of, uh, consequences on the level of companies,
for example, in, uh, Oil and gas and, uh, mining companies because they use
a lot of resources and they have to.
For example, now in Europe, I think we own a a, uh, wrong, uh, of this is ISG
because, uh, a of uh, Very wise, uh, uh, policy, politics, policy people in,
for example, Germany, they decided to get rid of all this oil, gas, and such a
warm company as warm country as Germany.
They decided to.
Rely on sun and, uh, wind, uh, and uh, also on the Russian, on the Russian gas.
And of course in this, uh, climate, they now, they don't have Russian energy.
And the sun Sunday weather is also doesn't help.
Uh, so now we help, we have a lot of, uh, issues with sg.
Because people, uh, stopped, uh, in investing in oil and gas.
But this all kinda, uh, not ag to blame, but uh, kinda, uh, mind of this politics.
This politics intervene in the business.
And, uh, also it kind, um, um, prevents, uh, a good develop.
and of course it's a kind of social movement, you know, all
this greenwash, uh, it's kind of on television people, uh, doing a lot
of demonstration and, uh, politic and starting to kind of take action.
And because of this, uh, we have such a big problems, but ESG itself is a
good idea, but, uh, it, uh, produces.
Many, uh, results that are not, uh, kind of, uh, uh, beneficial
for, for all, uh, people.
Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah.
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I, I think that's, you know, anytime you have a big.
Social movement like that.
Uh, like in this case, environmental science, we have the same
problem in, in cloud, right?
So people are, people are moving to the cloud and you get a lot of cloud
washing, you'll get a lot of people are like, oh, we're cloud, we're good.
You know, it's like, eh, you're not really cloud, right?
Um, and um, you know, we, we did a couple of episodes.
I don't know if you.
You being where you're at.
Did, did you remember that, that cl the story about the OVH cloud, uh, the
giant fire that was there a couple years
Prasanna Malaiyandi: France, I think
W. Curtis Preston: in France?
Boris Agranovich: Um,
Prasanna Malaiyandi: they're a cloud company that hosted data
centers in containers, cargo
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, and there was a giant fire that that took out
a couple of data centers and a lot of customers actually lost data even though
they had paid for the backup system.
Um, that I'm surprised that it.
That it hasn't made it over your way, but then again, you
don't focus on DR and stuff.
But that, that popped, that popped on my radar pretty, pretty quick.
Um, any final thoughts that you have, Boris, uh, that you know, things that
you would've wanted to talk about?
Boris Agranovich: Yeah, I think, uh, with you guys, I think we have a lot of, uh, in
common because you're also managing risk and I, it's of course, it's kind of, uh,
one of the, uh, many, uh, facets of risk.
W. Curtis Preston: Mm-hmm.
Boris Agranovich: it's in, uh, it domain.
I'm not sure it's only, but maybe organizational domain.
So I think, uh, if people have some more questions and uh, uh, about, uh,
risk management also in about this business, continue to talk it, they can
go to our site, uh, and check it out.
Um, it's available and, uh, I'm always open for questions in blog
and discussions, uh, and event.
So also some people who want to join our podcast.
As you guys, uh, you joined, welcome to discuss this important topic of business
continuity and, uh, disaster recovery.
We're happy to, to provide, uh, your view to, to our.
W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, absolutely.
And, uh, persona great with your questions as well,
Prasanna Malaiyandi: No thank you Curtis.
Good luck with the floor and Boris it.
Nice chatting with you.
W. Curtis Preston: and, uh, and I'll thank, I'll thank
you to our, uh, listeners.
Make sure to subscribe so that you can restore it all.