to another episode of turning the table.

My name is Adam lamb from chef life coaching, and I'm here with

my cohost, Jim Taylor benchmark 60.

How are you?

It's so great to be with you again.

And we have a topic today that is near and dear to our hearts.

And we also have a specialist waiting in the wings.

Who's really been diving deep into this particular subject.

And we're really happy to have Scott Turner, the CEO of Auden hospitality.

He's no stranger to this show nor to this particular topic.

So I just wanted to ask, how's your hiring plan going?

Is it working for you?

Are you attracting the right staff?

The Three Critical Steps to Attracting, Hiring & Retaining Restaurant Staff You_re Missing: And if you're attracting the right staff.

Do you actually have a critical path for actually hiring them

and bringing them on board?

It seems like lots of folks are applying in different places and,

you know, if you're not acting fast, sometimes they're already gone.

And so what's what's a step that you can actually be taking in your

operation to not only attract to the right staff, but to hire them.

And then what are we doing about retaining them?

So we're going to be talking about.

Impactful training what the data is showing us about

this generation of workers.

And it's a topic as I said, that is near and dear to our hearts because of course

we've been saying on this show for over a year, the retention is the new cool.

And we'll get into that and a lot more right after these messages.

Welcome to turning the table, the most progressive weekly podcast for today's

food and beverage industry featuring staff centric operating solutions.

for restaurants in the hashtag New Hospitality Culture.

Join Jim Taylor of Benchmark60 and Adam Lam as they turn the tables on

the prevailing operating assumptions of running a restaurant in favor

of innovative solutions to our industry's most persistent challenges.

Thanks for joining us.

And now onto the show.

This episode is made possible by E Vocalize.

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com forward slash evocalize and Jim we've already gotten some action

in the chat, so we want to welcome Andrew Jones is saying good afternoon.

And of course, at this point we'd like to bring in very good friend of ours, Scott

Turner, the principal of Auden hospitality coming to us from from England.

Where apparently you're having some English sunshine outside,

which is actually right.

Definitely.

Yeah, we definitely are.

Welcome

back, Scott.

Thank you.

I think I think this is my hat trick, right?

So yeah, I'm really pleased to be here

again.

You know, not everybody, not everybody gets

to be on the show three times.

No, I'll I'll wait for my golden disc coming

through the post, right?

Yeah.

Well, it's good to

have you back.

There's, there's lots to dive into.

And of course, there's three particular portions to this whole idea of having

the right staff, having a killer crew that really not only makes you shine, but

it's also what we've come to understand is an incredibly symbiotic relationship.

There's stuff that as we show up, so do they.

And so I wanted to get into get into a couple of these topics.

And the first one is attracting the rights, the right staff.

And I, Great shout out to Karen, who's coming to us from Abu Dhabi.

Hi, Karen.

Now, I think that's, I think that's where you do some work as well,

don't you, in the Middle East, Scott?

Yeah, yeah, I used to I used to run a venue

there for five years, actually.

And I spoke to Karen a couple of times.

I used to live in in Dubai, so not too far away.

So, yeah, yeah, great memories.

Fantastic.

So as a matter of fact, you were, you were on a on a show a little

earlier today with Chris Hall.

Good friend from the burnt chef project.

And you guys were talking about this and after the initial blush of the, of

the go, what kind of thoughts remained with you after that, that we might bring

up here that maybe you didn't get to, or, or hoped to highlight even more.

During that particular broadcast.

Yeah, it was funny.

I mean, we touched on it on a couple of different on a couple of different

subjects around this and it's a really interesting topic because I think, you

know, we were speaking off air there.

It's such an emotive subject that everyone knows we need to do

something about and, you know, some people are good talking about it.

Some people are acting on it.

Other people need to need to find the time to be able to do it.

But you know, I said something earlier that I've never said before, but

actually when I was in the in the flow of doing it and reflected on it after

I thought, you know, actually what an amazing what an amazing period to be in.

And that was I.

Don't think we've ever been in such a time where it's so exciting in terms of the

workforce that's coming through as it is right now, because the workforce that's

coming through now, right now are probably never been so creative as they are today.

And that gives us a huge opportunity from a, from an industry perspective

to really start going into the next level of, of what this industry can

become in terms of people embracing.

Tech embracing different values, being more creative.

And I think, you know, everything, sometimes you can find yourself talking

about this subject and you can start getting focused on the negatives too

often, and I think it's worthwhile just celebrating that for a minute

that we're in a, an amazing period now that people can capitalize on it.

We're going to start seeing some special stuff coming through, I think.

So that was one of my key takeaways from today.

Yeah.

I couldn't agree more.

I mean, we've talked about this on this show and in a couple of the

platforms that, you know, there's, I, I truly believe that Gen Z is going to

be the best thing that ever happened to the hospitality industry, right.

And like you said, creativity is a big part of that.

The other part is they just have options.

So if we're not the best option, they're going to go somewhere else.

Right.

So I think it's just forcing our industry to just be creative

and look at things differently.

I agree completely.

Yeah, definitely.

I mean, it's.

Yes.

I mean, it's never been there's never been such a focus on it

being an employee's market before.

It's always, and you know, I think I was listening to a podcast you were

on today and, and and you were talking about how we've kind of papered over the

cracks for years because there's been this churn of people coming through.

through and all of a sudden that bandaid's been ripped off and

we're starting to see people fall through the cracks, whether that's

businesses or whether that's people.

And it's, you know, the, the people who come to work for us have never had so

much choice, potentially so much power.

And so many opinions in terms of what, what is right and what is wrong.

And I think that is again, you know, I've shared stories before of when I came back

from the Middle East to the UK and I saw such a change in the workforce that it

did take me time to adapt and it did take me time to understand what was different.

But we have to be clear about it, that the new generation have got a bigger,

much bigger voice than we ever did.

They are much more vocal about what they want and what they expect from people.

We are the people who have to change because they, they

are not going to do that.

So I would encourage anyone listening to the show.

That's a leader right now, finding it difficult to, to keep people.

We need to start looking at retention as a key key strategy

because, it's not going to go away.

Yeah.

There's an interesting stat that kind of keeps popping into my mind every

time I get into this conversation.

And that is that at least in a lot of the North American markets, I'm sure

the UK is not that much different.

80 percent of the people applying for restaurant jobs right now have

never worked in the industry before.

So the first thing that, you know, when, whenever I talk about that with somebody

that I can, you know, and Scott, you just were nodding going like, okay,

that's, you know, that's interesting.

And I think the first part of that stat that people latch onto is

this 80 percent piece they go, oh, my gosh, everybody's brand new.

Right.

And they worry about the lack of experience or the, how much they get

up to train people or, you know, what industry are they coming from all of

But the other side of it is also, I think, equally interesting for our

industry from from you know, making sure that there's a reminder that we

do need to change and evolve, because what that's also telling us is that

only 20 percent of the people working in hospitality are crazy enough to try again.

The rest of them are going, I'm out.

This is, you know, it's not for me anymore.

So that's the one I jump on to.

It's okay.

If only 20 percent of people are actually.

You know, willing to try again, for lack of a better way to put it, then

that means we have to find a better way to hire, train and retain those

people.

Yeah.

And I just want to kind of jump on that as well, because I remember the

burnt chef project did a survey towards the end of the pandemic shutdown.

So, you know, industry lost 6 million jobs, et cetera, et cetera.

But the interesting part of this survey was that I think 60 or 70 percent

of the people who left the industry.

Planned on coming back within, I think, a year and a half or two years.

So we're right at that limit where, you know, folks are looking to see,

you know, what changes we've made.

You know, I call this the great reset.

What a great opportunity for us to, like, think of different ways.

And to your point, Scott, you know, really listen to our potential staff

members because they're telling us what they're looking for and will be

to us if we're going to be complacent enough to say, well, no, no, no, no, no.

I wanted to return to the way it was before because it's, it's

never going to get that way.

So I just wanted to highlight the first part of this, which is how

to attract to the right staff.

And our friend Jensen Cummings loves to say that, you know, every, every

hospitality company, restaurant, hotel, chef, catering company is a food service

company and also a media company.

And the quicker they get on that and understand that part of their business

is to own their narrative, which means, you know, taking this out.

You know, and using that and creating fun little short form videos and posting

them in the places and on the platforms where your potential associates might be.

And that might be TikTok where a large portion of that younger crowd is, but

also just showing, you know, sure, there's some gravitas to what we do and some of

us take it a little bit more seriously than others, but you know, it's also fun.

It can be fun and to be able to illustrate that in little short

term, short short form videos.

And as I like to say to my chef friends, stop posting static pictures of food, man.

Nobody gets that except other chefs.

So, you know, whether it's, you know, food porn or whatever, but you're

talking within the bubble and you're not necessarily going outside of

that to engage them where they're at.

And I think that's probably another piece, Scott, to your point, you

know, we gotta be where they're at.

We can't just ignore them and expect them to come up to our level.

And that's what right before we went live, we were having a conversation

about short form video training.

Which to me is like one of the most exciting things out there, because

to be honest, as an operator, that's one piece I would really like to

offload because there's just so much that capitalizes on our time.

So speak to that.

Wouldn't you?

Because I think that probably goes towards.

Maintaining and retaining great staff, right?

Are they being trained properly?

Do they have a clear career trajectory through the organization?

Things of that sort.

So can you speak to that for a bit?

Yeah, 100%.

I you know, the subject we were talking about before I'm working

with the SAS startup company.

Based out the, out of the uk.

And they got in contact with me when they were just in idea fairs and

said, you know, we want to speak to people in the hospitality industry.

We, we think it's we think we're onto something, but we're not

quite sure how it'll be embraced.

And I went and spoke to, to these guys, Jonah and, and Jules And I

saw what they had and I listened to what they said and instantly I

said to them, let me work with you.

Let me work with you, because this has the opportunity to change how

we train people in the industry.

And it's a system called Blend.

And what it is, is it's video, first short form training content.

An employee can create a training.

Session in about two to three minutes if they've already got the video on

there It's as easy as posting on tiktok instagram and on the rest of it What got

me intrigued by the whole thing was a couple of things first of all, they were

talking about how the generation today Even us, the other generation, but how

we consume content today is in short form content, whether that's written, whether

that's pictures, whether that's video, but it's starting to lend more towards

towards video now and what they were talking about was how the, because we're

also used to consuming content in short.

Our concentration levels don't extend into long form.

So if you're going into a business and you're on the way into work and

you're consuming everything in short form and you're watching videos,

you're scrolling through reels, et cetera, and then you walk into your

first day's training in a new job.

And you sit there and the training manager's there and she gets all hyped up.

But she brings up the PowerPoint that has one of 43 slides.

Your team will switch off because that to them is the idea of it.

Whereas if you are in there and it's short, it's buzzy, it's small, it's short,

impactful sessions, it's much likely to stick with them because they'll feel more

engaged and their brains are used to going two minutes impact, stop, two minutes

impact, stop, scroll, scroll, scroll.

It's a bit like when you're working out, right?

doing a four minute sprint is as good as doing a 20 minute run.

It's that type of, it's that type of scenario.

So that was the first piece that like really got me intrigued in this, in

terms of going, do you know what?

We need to bring these people into our circles when we're deciding what the

strategy is around how we communicate to our people, because they're the people

who know how to be engaged their way.

So that was the first piece.

And then the second piece in that was, you know, We're always looking now

as a business because of increasing costs to look at where efficiency

efficiencies can be and what's the first thing that goes in those businesses.

Often it's training.

So the whole platform was around, you know, if I can take a video

in a restaurant of food, but when the food comes to my table and I

can put it on Instagram within two minutes, why can someone not do that?

When it comes to training.

So instead of you needing to pay for the videographer to do a video of the chef

making the dish to them, get the edits back and four weeks later, you might have.

The menu there and you lose all the agility around how we need to how we

need to run restaurants at the minute.

Why can't we do that in real time and be really authentic

around how we put it together?

It doesn't need to be, it doesn't need to be tidy.

It's a training video.

It needs to show real life.

It needs to be, it needs to be authentic.

And if we can do that.

On an iPhone or an Android or whatever format people are using, and we can

get that uploaded as a module, as a training module in two to three minutes.

How powerful is that from a training perspective, that you

could have a full menu done in an afternoon that your team can then

be actively trained on that night?

It's, it's super powerful.

Yeah.

And, and, you know, As soon as I saw this and heard the pitch and heard what

it was all about, I had to work with them because I just think it's, it's,

it's a, if, you know, I've seen it in practice, it is looking really strong,

but I just think there's an opportunity where anyone can invest that type of

format with a system or not, and just introduce that into the business, right?

WhatsApp groups, we all have, you know, training platforms.

How can we start taking those PowerPoints away, putting video in there?

Right.

And then what, what are the new workforce wanting from people?

They want in genuine, they want people to be genuine.

They want authenticity, you know, hashtag no filter.

So, actually not making things look pretty, not making things look too too...

Precise and everything actually sits with them far greater than going

out, getting a videographer done and touch ups and all the rest of it.

So I think there's a huge potential to really look at to really look

at things differently when it comes to, to how we train our people.

And it's back to that, you know, back to that, how do we attract people properly?

Again, let's start talking to them as Adam said, on tik tok

and shop form and why does your.

Why does your customer guest message have to be different

from your employee message?

It doesn't, it doesn't have to be, it's, it's about, you know, the

same values stick for everyone.

So I think it's, it's, how do you talk to everyone?

On the same message that keeps the brand kind of conducive to what it is and starts

really, you know, talking in the same way.

And I think you know, that's key.

Another subject I brought up this morning actually is that, you know, I'm not

sure we do a great job sometimes in the industry of showing how good we can be.

I think we, we, you know, we're a bit understated.

We're like a Brit.

We're understated.

You know, we don't, we don't stand up and shout from the rooftops

and say what we can do for people.

And sometimes I think we can be a bit selfish and going, we're

going to teach you how to serve plates and do silver service in the

old days and this type of thing.

Actually, think of the soft skills that you learn in hospitality.

Even if you come and do a two year stint while you're in university and

you're a transient employee, think of the skills that you leave with.

And I don't think we do enough of shouting about that.

I don't think we do enough of that.

Sharing that with people when they in the industry to then keep them engaged

until when they leave, because all those soft skills that you pick up that I've

certainly picked up from being in the industry, I wouldn't have gotten if I

hadn't worked in hotels, restaurants, etc.

So I think, you know, from an attraction purpose, I think we

should stop being so selfish about how we great running restaurants.

And I think should start talking more about, you know, We can teach

you how to deal with pressure.

We can teach you how to budget, how to finance, how to how to yield.

You know, let's, if I'm running a book in a restaurant, I'm learning

how to yield inventory that can go into so many different careers, but we

don't swap them from restaurant into others to show people that they're

actually learning different skills.

So I think, you know, there's a, there's a huge piece around, around.

Sharing how great we are as an industry.

Yeah,

couldn't agree more.

There's a comment you made a couple of minutes ago there, Scott, about

the one of the first things to get cut is training and interesting.

Just, you know, when you think about that from a big picture of business perspective

and finance and you know, it's all everybody who's running a restaurant is.

In one way or another trying to probably make some money, right?

I mean, they're probably not doing it for charity.

I was talking with DJ who is the host of the podcast for seven

shifts the other day great guy.

And he's, he does some awesome content for them.

And we were talking about a survey that they had done.

That they pulled, I don't know, a few thousand and DJ, if you see or hear

this, don't I apologize if I butcher the number, but they pulled, let's say

thousands of restaurant operators in North America on what the biggest challenges

were that they were facing right now.

And inflation was number three, I believe.

But the first two were retention was the thing that they found

was the hardest thing to deal with in the industry right now.

And the second thing was their labor cost management.

And so we were having this discussion about.

Well, if, if you improve the training, which would improve the

retention, potentially your labor costs would come down because

the cost of turnover is so high.

Right?

So it's interesting to see that those were number 1 and number 2.

And just that the discussion around how connected those

things are, I mean, I'm sure you've seen, yeah, I mean, I'm sure

you've seen the same Jim in operations that you've run the best operations.

I run with the most consistent consistent from a, from a people

perspective, the teams who stuck around the longest and they were the

ones who fundamentally delivered.

Better results because there could be more efficient.

They were more passionate, more engaged.

Yeah.

And it was, it was interesting just to just the way that that discussion went and

maybe we can touch on this a little bit.

I'd love to hear your take on it, Adam, you too.

But so retention is the number one challenge they're facing.

Labor cost management is number two, but like you just said,

so often the approach is.

We need to be profitable.

So they actually address the number two problem before the number one problem.

They go cut harder, lower your labor costs.

And the manager is left with, what do I do?

Where's the, where's the easy fact trim just cut training, which

then compounds the number one problem, which is retention, right?

Do you understand what I'm, you agree with what I'm saying?

I'm curious your take on that because, and, and Adam in the back house too,

from a chef's perspective, there's so much to unpack there, I think.

Well, the first, the first thing that runs to my mind is, you

know, again, if this is the great reset, then from a financial standpoint,

we have to throw the old model out.

Whereas, you know, there might be a little bit of money in there

for, for preopening training.

But after that training is basically, you're supposed to like bundle that up

with the hours that you already have allotted and the money that you already

have to spend for operational labor yet.

Very little is set aside like, okay, here's 2, 000 a month for training,

which might mean getting everybody together around a table and learning

how to break down a whole swordfish or something along that lines, right?

Because now, Scott, to your point, you're assisting them and building

skills that are going to last them in the rest of their lives.

And that is an incredibly important thing and something I don't think we

think a lot about as a matter of fact, I was having a conversation with Greg

Gorgon from the Pineapple Academy, which is kind of a similar thing.

They have these short form videos and you can actually upload your own as

well to create this blended environment.

Everything from how to turn a fryer on to how to, you know,

clean out a sink or whatever.

But the thing is, you know, I said, so, so you have all these hard skills.

Like, what about the soft skills?

Like there's something to be said about teaching somebody how to, you

know, manage a table, how to tour somebody through the menu, how to

really invest in what it's like.

To be a hospitarian because somewhere along the line, it just

became a transaction in a lot of operations and it's just like,

okay, what's your, what do you want?

And let's go now.

You know, I go to a diner and that's the way that I order because first

thing in the morning, you know, I'm not really looking for that

hospitality piece is so important.

And I just want to kind of highlight this one, which Karen

through a very, very poignant Point into the chat, which is agree.

The industry does not promote itself.

Well, nor effectively to any generation, not just the younger crowd.

And I thought this was pretty sage because she says many early retirees

are looking for part time, temporary jobs and overlooked due to age.

So this idea of ages and existing, and we can only.

bring in young staff is probably missing the boat because there's a huge work

force out there that would love to be engaged, who love to be in relationship,

who are great at the table side.

So I know that there's a couple of things in there, but if we're not

budgeting for training, then we're just doing everybody a disservice.

Yeah,

couldn't agree more.

And Karen also adds again, the industry focus on well on training the essential

yet neglects personal and professional development, essential ingredient

to engage and retain employees.

And I don't know about you guys, but my dad didn't teach me about finances.

My very first credit card I got at 18 was a Montgomery ward credit card back

in the day when there was Montgomery war.

That's probably dating myself and they had a gas station.

So that's what I used.

But I busted it out within 18 months.

I'm like, what do you mean?

I have to pay this back.

What do you mean?

There's actually more money.

So to your point, Scott, like teaching people on how to actually

budget and use their money.

Some of the technology out there where you can access a portion of your earned

pay already by using this particular card is a great way to start, have a

conversation because the fact is, is that we're not just hiring hands, we're

actually hiring a whole human being.

And so to the effect that they can be successful in their personal life,

they also get to bring that in and become successful within the operation.

So,

yeah, and I think that's going to be probably

one of the biggest shifts.

I think it's one of the biggest shifts I'm seeing in operations

right now that the, the teams.

Are willing to learn.

How about why?

And they're willing to learn about the, the hard skills.

But they're also asking employers what is in it for me.

Mm-hmm.

And when they're mean that they mean, what other courses can

you give me that can help me?

Whether that is, you know, digital marketing, whether that is

wellbeing, whether that's mental health, whether that's back to

your point, financial training.

And you know that they want these soft skills as much as they and

they're willing to do the other bit, but they want that as well.

And I think that's where now we have to do that.

And if we're sitting down and have meaningful conversations and

connections with our teams and we're saying to them, you know,

what do you, what, what do you want?

What, what, how can we help you?

And you've got a student there who's training for, it.

I don't know, marketing course.

And she says, I want to learn more about digital marketing.

If we want to keep that person there for all of the duration of her studies,

we need to help her deliver that.

Does she look after the social media accounts?

Does she look after Insta stories?

Does she go and spend some time with the marketing guys?

So I think we have to be a little less worried about the fact that

people might leave and be a little bit more interested in what they

want, because if we keep them for that duration, it's ultimately going to be.

A retention perspective and all rest.

I think it, it's a huge thing that's changing a little bit there as well.

And you know, I, I think it's a really good point from, from that

perspective to, to kind of bring that

up.

Well, it's, it's like that what's the quote?

It.

You know, what happens if I train my people and they leave?

Well, what happens if you don't train them and they stay?

You know, it's kind of like, there's this risk of like, I'm going to give away all

these trade secrets, and then they're going to go work for the competitor.

Well, but what if you don't teach them all those valuable skills

and then they stick around?

And become an albatross around the neck of the operation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

100%.

You're making them better people for your business.

You give them financial skills.

They become better people for your business.

If you teach them how to look after themselves and well being

and all that, they're going to come back to the business.

Like if you have financial problems because you can't manage your finances

at home, you're not going to concentrate on your guests because you're going

to be too worried about the next bill you have to pay, et cetera.

So it's about ultimately it benefits the business in an indirect way.

It's showing your people that you care and you know, that, that came up a lot in the

conversation we had earlier is how do you show people you care because that makes

a huge difference to how people think, you know, salary is great, etc, etc.

And it's funny, I was speaking to a hotel GM, literally about half an hour

ago, and he's just gone back to the properties working in now after 3 years.

And I said, how come you've gone back?

And he turned around and said, you know what, here they look after people's...

Well, and in 3 years, I've come back and there's about 60 percent of the people

who were here before still here now, because they just look after them so well,

understand there's lots of the kids, etc, etc.

And it's, you know, it's sometimes it's those little

bits that people are driven by.

It's not the only one.

We talked about, you brought up Jensen Cummins earlier, and

I shared this example on the call this morning, but.

I saw him do a post a few weeks ago about how he was getting some, I think

it was 75 no shows for interviews.

And the next day he went on video, sent everyone a WhatsApp message

beforehand saying, looking forward to seeing you tomorrow, this is how you

get here, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And very personal, direct, and I think he got, was it 80

people showed up the next day.

I tried that with an operator last week.

Or was it this week?

This week.

And we, we got, we've been getting zero.

We've been getting no one turning up.

I tried it this week, 52 percent of people turned up.

That's from zero to 52.

And the F& B manager literally got on a WhatsApp and said, It's in a hotel.

Got on the WhatsApp.

This is the nearest tube.

When you get to the lobby, be a bit intimidating, but go

upstairs, speak to the hostess.

I'll be along.

I know you come in.

So even if I'm a bit late, cause I'm caught up, don't worry.

I'll be there.

52 percent of people turned up.

So it just goes to show that by having that little bit of effort,

that little bit of care makes such a difference to, to people.

And, and that's amazing.

It's a great

example.

I am so glad that you brought that example up because based on

that same conversation, because I heard the same thing there was a,

there was a software marketplace online called app sumo, a PPS UMO.

And I was just cruising there looking for.

Some software for myself because I'm tired of paying subscriptions.

And these are like very often a one payment lifetime deals.

And they actually have a video platform for hiring and vetting

associates that works exactly the same way for 49 bucks, man, 49 bucks.

You put that in.

And now all of a sudden there's a direct pipeline and people are

seeing your face and they get to know that, you know, you care and that

you're, that they're safe, right?

That safety and the care is like one of the two biggest, highest things.

And I was thinking about.

You know, the retention piece when you were talking about and Jim, I know we

talked about this on the show before, but there's an operator that basically went

to the craft store and got a big piece of whiteboard and posted it in the kitchen.

And he created basically a personal development scorecard for his associates.

So I want to go to school.

Okay.

What are the steps in that?

And, or I want to write a book and he would post that up and they

would celebrate those wins with the associates in front of everybody.

Like it doesn't have anything to do with work.

I mean, you might say that, but any, any, any time you're building

a skill, you're that's going to show up everywhere, but now you're.

showing that you care enough about them in their personal lives to see them win.

And, you know, very often there may be some wisdom that you have

that you can share with them is to, to facilitate that journey.

And now all of a sudden you're not necessarily a leader anymore, but

you're a mentor because now you care about them in a personal way.

And I think that there's Like, yeah, there's some technology out.

That's that's fantastic.

And there's a cost associated yet.

If we're really asking our associates what they're actually looking for very

often, those are those are dimes to the dollar or, you know, pennies to the

quit or whatever you want to call it.

But and it takes a little bit of creativity, but, you know, we've

got this great thing called Google.

And YouTube, which is the second largest search engine in the

world, there's somebody probably modeling something like that.

It just takes the time to actually look.

Yeah.

Well, and, and Anthony Valletta, we've had him on the

show president of Bar Taco, they're doing some really cool stuff around

that, exactly what you're saying.

And him and I had an interesting discussion, partly on the episode.

And since then too, about so many companies are focused from a

retention perspective on the, on people's lives outside of work.

Right.

Let's add benefits, unlimited vacation, you know, 401k matching in the U.

S.

or, you know, RRSP in Canada or whatever it's called, UK you

know, savings matching type stuff.

Or, you know, pet insurance or whatever it might be, they're adding all

these benefits to try to improve the life portion of work life balance.

But so many companies are missing the opportunity to improve the

work part of work life balance.

And, you know, Anthony made a comment we were talking about that it's all,

all of that stuff outside of work.

Is for nothing if the second you come back to work and you're

overwhelmed or stressed out, right?

So we've been having a lot of discussion lately and the stuff that the work that

they're doing to basically recreate the entire management and employee experience.

Is doing some really cool things for them from a retention perspective,

but they're looking at lifestyle and workload and stress management

and, you know, all these different, the whole service model is changing.

So there are some really good companies, like you said, Adam, whether it's

on YouTube or LinkedIn or wherever you find them that are doing some

really good stuff around that.

And if anybody ever needed any ideas, you know Scott Turner's

details are in the chat and I'll make sure that they're posted in there.

And the link to Auden hospitality, certainly Jim from benchmark 60.

I mean, you focus exclusively on this whole.

Workload management, like in such a unique way that like, okay,

so we're not being reactive.

We're actually being proactive.

And that works to the point of like, again, staff feel like they're

cared for, that they're more than just a pair of hands or a strong

back, that there's somebody that's actually looking out for them and

their welfare that goes a long ways.

Got to your point.

Like, that's why people come back.

I mean, you go to university for a year and you come back and you're in the

summertime and you go right back to these, a lot of folks go right back to

their old employers because they know.

That they're going to be valued and cared for.

Yeah,

definitely.

And I think you know, two things that you can implement in your business

tomorrow that is absolutely free and I will guarantee will improve

the way your people look at you and I'll guarantee that it's in your

sequence of service for your guests.

And that is say hello.

And say goodbye seems so simple, but I will guarantee your people will look

at you differently if everyone gets greeted in on the way in and everyone

gets says goodbye on the way out.

And I think, you know, sometimes we get, especially in the minute with,

with tech and things we get all.

Or don't we, and how can we buy things or how can we give them benefits,

pensions, et cetera, et cetera.

And don't forget the simple things, because sometimes the simple

things can be just as impactful.

And yeah, I think, I think it's, it's, it's huge, isn't it?

And it, and it doesn't cost anything as well.

You know, great stuff, food it doesn't cost anything.

So all those types of things are big and can have a big impact

and can make a difference on.

What your people think and how they feel valued as well.

Some of the best people we've all worked for are the ones who knew

your name when you were low down the ranks and you couldn't believe

he remembered what you were called.

And I think I shared this the last time I was on you know, I, I still remember

now the GM I had when I was 19 years old, who at nine o'clock and three

o'clock went around the whole hotel and said hello to every single person.

And I still remember him now.

X amount of years on and you know, it's yeah, don't forget the simple stuff.

Yeah.

The example I have like that is, and I share this one, it's still try to, you

know, emulate this as much as possible.

An executive that I worked for for a long time.

He's been a mentor of mine for years.

He used to come into the restaurant.

I mean, he worked at head office, right?

Executive vice president of a massive restaurant group.

He would come into the restaurant at about six, six, seven

o'clock every single Friday PM.

So seven o'clock PM on a Friday.

And he's a nine to five schedule type guy.

Right.

And he would walk around the restaurant.

And he would say hello to customers and he would say hello to every staff member.

And finally, one day I was like, listen, like funny enough, his name is also Jim.

But I said, Jim, what, what are you doing?

Like, is your family not wondering where you are?

You should be home for dinner kind of thing right now.

And I'll never forget his response.

He goes, if you think for a second that that office that I sit in all day is

what this is all about, like you're crazy because the people that are in here

right now, the customers and the staff are the reason we're in this business.

So he goes, your aspiration shouldn't be to go sit in an office all day.

Your aspiration should be to take better care of your employees and your

customer, because that's why we're here.

And I was like, I'm going to just shut up now kind of thing.

Right.

But I've never forgotten that, you know, it's just such a good reminder.

And I just wanted to quickly shout out to Tucker Bascom,

who's watching us on Facebook.

So, Hey, Tucker.

So glad you could join us today.

Another guy who's, you know, using a particular a particular piece of

technology called seven taps, which is all about micro learning these little cards.

So he's doing that for his own business.

And there's no reason why, you know, We couldn't be doing it.

Ours.

I just wanted to make one other quick point about the whole idea of attraction.

So as a podcaster, you go through a couple of exercises in order to make sure that

you're speaking to the right person, that you have the right audience, et cetera.

And very often that

And we have avatars for every single one of our podcasts, you know,

including a picture and a short form, like a little paragraph about

where they're at in their life.

And I know that some companies employ hiring profiles, but

hiring profiles are very often around skill sets instead of that.

So an interesting exercise would be to create an avatar

for each one of your positions.

And to me, the best leaders, the best mentors were the ones who came

in and, you know, sure, they go and talk to all the line staff, but they

make a particular point of like going into the prep area or the dish area.

And not just like across.

The dish pit window, but actually going in there into their work

environments to take time to shake their hand and say, what's up?

Because to the point, you know, there are most valuable associates

because we can, we can pick up a lot of slack, but I don't know about you,

man, but I don't want to get stuck in the dish pit on a Friday night.

Right.

So kind of those unsung heroes to be able to elevate their voices so that

they feel seen, heard and valued is another incredibly important thing.

And kind of by osmosis, as we start to use more emotional intelligence in the

way that not only we're dealing with our emotions, but also the emotions

of others, that's modeling something for them that they can take away.

And implement in their own life, whether or not they're

actually aware of it or not.

I mean, some of the best techniques I've ever learned about mirroring

and having conversations with other people I learned in other environments

and like, Oh, that's revolutionary.

I can't believe it.

Even though it might feel a little weird at the beginning, but people

appreciate the fact that you're actually.

mirroring back what they're saying.

So that I listen, I want to make sure that I understand you completely.

Is this what you're actually saying?

Or, or can you straighten me out to your point?

Scott, the simple things saying hello, saying goodbye, asking about

their family, how are your kids?

Do you have everything you need for today?

Do you have the tools?

Do you have the information?

Do you have the time to do it?

And very often.

Yeah.

Speaking only of myself.

I probably didn't ask a lot of those questions earlier in my career

because I didn't want to give a shit.

I had enough on my plate.

And I, the story I made up for myself was like, yeah, everybody's got their

own problems, including mine and theirs.

And they're just going to have to figure out a way to do it.

And I never really.

Understood that it was my job one to make sure that they had the training,

the tools, the time to actually succeed because nobody wants to fail.

Nobody wants to go to work and do a shitty job.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, because, because of the way the market is at the minute

and the talent market, I think we've kind of forgotten about how to hire right.

And we just hire and it's another way to cause turnover, just not

hiring the right fit for you.

And it's I was working with a client the other day and we're, we're

reopening the restaurant and going through a process of preopening.

Now, we wrote pillars the other day and our personalities and our

behaviors, I always put them in the same because for me, they're all the same.

And we have this restaurant and I think if I remember right, they were charm.

Playful sophisticated and one of the, so we then had a conversation to the, okay,

when we're doing social media, we need to make sure that it's playful, but charming,

there's a sophistication, et cetera.

When we're hiring people, let's go out and find people who are, who've

got that cheeky element to them.

That can be a little bit playful.

They've got the charm with the, with the guest and they're not robots.

Whereas if we were in a fine dining restaurant that was silver service and

it was very kind of black tie and all the rest, we shouldn't be going out

and finding someone who's eccentric.

So I think, you know, always go back to what your brand values and brand

pillars, brand behaviors are, and make sure that the person sat in

front of you is the person who fits that because just hiring someone

isn't going to get over the problem.

It might put the sticky plaster on, but when you both work out that

you're not the same, ultimately it's going to, it's going to end.

It's just, it's natural because you're not, you're not the right fit.

So I think, you know, hiring right.

And going back to that, that says, you know, it might take me a bit longer.

I might have to go understaffed a bit longer, but it's the

right thing to do helps.

And I, I always had a I was used to say to people who work to me sometimes is you

know, Don't have tough conversations with people because it's better to know that

you're in the mess and that's the nice way, that's the nice way I referred to it.

It's better to know you're in the mess than to be put into the mess

because someone phones in sick or realizes that they don't want to.

Come in because they're not in the right place.

You can plan to be short staffed.

You can't plan to be short staffed if someone does it within an hour's notice.

So it's always better to have those difficult conversations or to make

the difficult decisions because it makes it more sustainable in the

long run, reduces turnover, increases retention, doesn't have bad apples in

the team that can make things worse.

So, you know, again, if we're talking about how to have great

retention, how to have great attraction and hire the right people.

hire the right people.

That's, that's going to solve some of the other problems as well.

And then yeah.

No, very often it's the right person, but they're in the wrong job.

So we have to have the guts to be able to say, all right, I'll be

temporarily discomforted because it might mean I have to take this position

over or, or shift things around.

And now things are a little bit tighter than I want.

But ultimately, doesn't that person walk away with a much

greater sense of themselves?

And the organization and you as a leader, because.

You know, typically in that situation, what you move them

out, you, you make a change and still think like, no, no, no, no.

They're really great with the guests, but they just happen to be

wrong for this particular mechanic or this particular skill set.

And yet they might, they might brilliantly at the host stand.

But for most of us, we never give them a chance because we're afraid

of being, like I said, temporarily

discomforted.

I used to have a HR director who used to say to me when we used to go in

and have conversations around people.

There's a superhero in everyone, but not all superheroes are the same.

It

sums it up well, right?

Yeah, no doubt.

Well, and there's so much in this discussion, right?

We might need to have you on a fourth time here.

I mean, this is just, we could keep going about this stuff all day.

The thing that I'm present to you right now, Scott is like,

it's been a, it's been a while since you and I connected offline and

I'm spending this time with you.

I just, I walk away with such an appreciation for your deep knowledge

empathy the way you go about things.

And I'm thinking to myself, yeah, I got to call you more often, man,

from what I understand from my age.

Fourth time is a, is a trick to do it face to face.

Right.

So,

all right.

Well, I guess I better start saving up for a ticket.

Well, three, three different countries.

If you find a way to do that,

there's gotta be still like, well, maybe we have to just

meet in Gibraltar or someplace like,

thanks so much for joining us, Scott, it's just always so good

to connect and, and I agree with Adam, I mean, your insight and knowledge in

the industry and, you know, it's not just Adam that should call you more.

I think everybody

should.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so thank you very much, Scott.

Thanks to everybody, everybody for showing up, having your voice heard or making

your voice heard and for taking the time to like, share and follow the show.

As always, my name is Adam Lam with my cohost, Jim Taylor, Scott

Turner of Auden Hospitality.

Brother, such a great thing.

Thank you very much for joining us.

Pleasure.

Thank you very much.

Have a great day, everyone.

Thanks for joining us on this episode of Turning the Table

with me, Adam Lamb, and Jim Taylor.

We're on a mission to change the food and beverage industry for the better

by focusing on staff mental health, physical and emotional well being.

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