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We're rolling.

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We're rolling.

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Hello and welcome to Business Without Bullshit.

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I'm Andy Orie, and alongside me is my co-host of Bastards.

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Hi Andy.

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And today we are joined by the wonderful Andra Ola.

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How are you doing, Andra?

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I'm great.

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Thank you for asking.

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Nice Andra.

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Is head of business development and strategy at Origin Protocol and an all round crypto veteran.

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My God, that sounds, uh, almost like something you've, uh, gone through as a war.

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Andre studied economics at uc.

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Berkeley spent over eight years in Silicon Valley.

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You poor thing, uh, and was most recently the head of growth at one inch, where you raised a lot of money, 250 million and helped the project become the second fastest.

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Defi decentralized finance network.

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Welcome to the podcast, Andrew.

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Lovely to help you, and thank you for taking the time.

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I think, you know, we, we always like to start with this question and, and I think it's a fair one, is what is keeping you up at night?

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Uh, yeah, that's a very fair question, especially working in crypto, but, uh, Fortunately, or maybe unfortunately, what keeps me up at night is unrelated to crypto, and it's more related to everything that's happening on the world all at once.

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Uh, I don't know how much, uh, you guys, uh, read the news or, you know, maybe in England it's different in America, but it seems like everything is falling apart all at once, uh, on the, uh, political side, on social side, on the relationship side, on in every single aspect.

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So, uh, a lot of those questions and issues keep me up at night.

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Do you think?

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You know, I feel, I feel like the whole world's falling a apart at once, but then I meet so many people and see so many ama amazing technologies that can fix all the problems of the world at once, or at least some of them.

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Some of them.

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Mm-hmm.

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I feel like there's these nice supposing forces.

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Do you see, do you see crypto for one of a, a better name as a, as a force for good in that subject?

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In that, in that sense?

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I do, because if I didn't, I wouldn't be working in this space.

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Um, crypto's probably one of the most misunderstood, uh, spaces in the world at the moment.

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Uh, but at its core, it starts as a force of good once it's actually properly understood.

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What do you think?

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So misunderstood about it.

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First of all, um, a lot of the bad actors took over.

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So, you know, the, the, um, image that crypto has now is like, it's a scam.

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It's about losing money.

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You can't, it can be trusted.

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It's not a, it's not even solving any problems.

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But crypto really comes down to technology and understanding the fundamental problems that it tackles.

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Things like privacy, things like giving, uh, power back to the people like.

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Uh, becoming more a demo democratic space where you have a voice and you can vote on the issues that care about, that you care about.

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And you can get involved in the governance of certain companies, uh, where people can get together to accomplish certain goals.

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And those are not talked about enough because everyone's just too busy talking about exchanges and coins and investing and trading and Ponzi schemes and all the other stuff.

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Right.

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What is it that it needs to do to overcome the misunderstandings and, and, and put sort of roots in the ground is, you know, does it need more scientists behind it?

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Yeah.

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We could always use more scientists, more reputable people coming in and, you know, surfacing a lot of the, uh, of value that's underneath it.

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But I think, and a lot of people are not going to like this, especially if they're in crypto.

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I actually think that crypto needs to take a step back.

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What I mean by that is at an interface level.

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So every time an average user, a person interacts with crypto, uh, everything should happen in the backend.

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You should not know that crypto's powering this technology.

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Uh, when you make a payment from, uh, let's say America to England or any other country, you shouldn't know that it's powered by crypto.

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You should just leverage that technology in the backend.

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Oh, so you're saying, I, I, I'm paying for something and it'll say 32 pounds, and I press the money and pay, and the fact that crypto is going on don't involve me in it.

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You, you know, I'm just a consumer.

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Yeah.

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I think that trying to educate yourself on every single aspect of crypto, I mean, there's so many, right?

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There's payments, there's NFTs, metaverse, defi, lending, borrowing, trading, all of these aspects.

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You, unless you're very passionate about it, you don't want to educate yourself about the.

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How crypto's actually changing ev every single one of these fields.

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Um, you just want to like actually perform a certain activity.

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For example, sending money or, uh, blogging onto this platform or purchasing this thing, and you don't really care about it.

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We don't care today when we use a credit card.

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No one knows how Visa processes payments and we don't spend time thinking about it.

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We just tap it and go right.

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But you, you said something really interesting earlier, which was that that crypto and defi, I suppose, is democratizing finance and giving people the chance to vote on things they're interested in and have more of a say in what's going on.

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Can you unpack that a bit more about how crypto manages to, to do that?

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Yeah, sure.

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So first of all, the technology is built on decentralized technology.

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So let's start with that, meaning that in an ideal world, these protocols are fully transparent, so the user could, at any point in time, see the status of that, uh, protocol.

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What do I mean by that?

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Let's take Silicon Valley Bank that just imploded, right?

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You have no idea what's happening, be behind closed doors.

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You don't know where their collateral ratios are, how much money they've borrowed, lending you any, everything is a, is a black box.

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In Defi, you would be able to see this stuff, what we call on chain, which is really just the website at analytics dashboard where you can see all of these different, the, the different information and make decisions based on that.

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So that means being built on top of, uh, blockchain and being a decentralized finance protocol.

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Now, obviously depending on architecture, it can mean diff different thing.

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It can mean, for example, peer-to-peer blending and borrowing so that instead of borrowing from from a bank, you're borrowing from someone else.

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That's one way.

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But now how do you actually get involved?

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Um, A lot of these protocols issue the so-called tokens, right, that we're all, uh, well aware of.

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And these are actually governance, right?

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Most of the time.

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And governance really means that it's, it's kind of like a share where you get to actually vote, uh, on certain important decisions.

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So you just have your tokens and you go and it's like, Hey, I'm a shareholder or a token holder, and I get to vote.

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And it's important decision, uh, regarding this particular protocol.

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Um, so I have a direct say.

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That is what democracy is, is when you get together and each person votes or maybe they delegate.

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Their vote to someone else, and then they can vote on their behalf.

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But the idea is that you have a direct say and there's not like one key player making all the decisions regarding that particular project, protocol, uh, business, whatever you wanna call it in, in the terms of you, you start in hinting into the shareholder, the DOAs and stuff like that.

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I mean, Just to very briefly pause on them.

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You do.

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Do you see that industry flourishing?

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I mean, I find it very hard as a, I know, no.

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You know, I'm a citizen of nowhere.

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I'm a citizen of the world or whatever.

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When it comes down to tax and accounting and law, it's all very national.

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It's like, well, where the hell are the people?

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You know?

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I had a meeting with the.

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The lady from the dough and talk, you know, wanting to find pe, you know, and sort of saying, well, we're not anywhere, we're not taxable.

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It's like, no, like people are somewhere like, like physically they're somewhere and that's all the tax man cares about.

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But you know, briefly, do you see that industry flourishing or the, maybe a better question, do you see this user dough in these specific circumstances or a great use case for that kind of organization?

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Yeah, I mean, in finance, like I said, it's working pretty well.

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This is where we have the most traction, just because a lot of people got.

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Got fed up with the traditional banking system.

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Oh.

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So in, in decentralized finance, most of the companies are decentralized organizations.

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What?

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Registered in Wyoming or wherever it is, isn't it?

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Uh, usually, yeah.

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Caymans or, yeah.

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British Virgin Islands, yeah.

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Oh, okay.

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And then they operate as actual decentralized entities.

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Um, so whatever tax residents or tax setup they have, right.

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They, they pay taxes there.

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But then, uh, the actual incorporation.

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So, you know, in America we have LLCs.

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In, uh, in crypto, we now have something called DAOs, or decentralized autonomous or organization.

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And a lot of them are, are trying to get fully decentralized so they can actually check that box of being a Dow.

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Uh, and there are groups working towards making this an actual incorporation style, just like an L L C or um, Whatever else.

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Okay.

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So at the moment though, most decentralized finance that in, in, in my little tax mine, then they're not, they're not DAOs.

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They're registered in an offshore territory and then have some local activities effectively, but keep the crown jewels, as we say, offshore if they can.

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Yeah, because there was no way to become fully decentralized right off the bat.

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Right.

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I mean, the chances of succeeding.

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There have been some that tried that, but uh, it just didn't work out there.

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It has to.

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Start with a more central entity that's incorporated somewhere, and then have a decentralization roadmap where you slowly remove a lot of those centralized pieces.

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You know, if we just peel it back to what matters, you know, if I'm a, if I'm, you know, a medium sized business, I'm small business, I'm based wherever in the, in America or in the uk, and I'm hearing about Defi, what do you think I should be doing as a business?

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Say I'm a software business with a hundred people.

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Should I be paying any attention to it?

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Does it matter?

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Do I just use my bank?

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What do you think?

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Yeah, I mean, here's what I would say.

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Uh, don't do it because it's a fathom, because you're just like, oh, I should get involved in crypto somehow.

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But look at the pain points of your business, uh, on from the financial aspects since we're talking about defi.

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What I mean by that is, uh, am I paying too much, uh, for, uh, payments?

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Transactions, you know, uh, visa has fees, MasterCard has fees.

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Uh, is that something that's taking a huge chunk of my profit?

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Maybe are there too many delays?

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For example, when I have international customers and it takes three to five days to process those payments, is that something that I could improve?

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Because if I got the payments right away in my bank account, as a small business, every single cent matters.

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Right?

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So those are two examples.

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Another one would be, I have money sitting in the bank that I'm not actually using for anything.

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I have an extra 20, $30,000 pounds, whatever, uh, that's not automatically earning interest and there's no way for me to actively manage this, like going in and out of, uh, interest earning accounts.

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Um, is that something that I should ex.

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Explore more with.

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Um, so this is where a lot of crypto, uh, starts to become useful, uh, because you get payments in real time right away at a freshen of the cost.

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Uh, we were talking earlier about a, a bank transfer, uh, bank, an international bank transfer can cost up to like 40, $45.

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Sorry, just to play devil's advocate now with FX Plat, these are all these FX platforms, like wise, transfer wise, you know, there's loads of them.

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The instant payment, no transactions, I dunno what tech they're using, but.

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Don't they do the same thing, or, or it's not as good still, or it, it depends.

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So there's no such thing, it's free lunch, right?

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So you're probably getting ripped off in the effects rate if you're not actually paying an upfront fee.

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Um, so somewhere, somewhere has to like get a, get a share of this all in order.

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They're all.

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I mean, they're not ripping you off next to the bank, but the bank was ripping you off so badly anyhow.

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You know, anyone could come in, you know?

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Yeah.

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So, so that was FinTech, right?

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FinTech took, uh, took the first step, uh, from traditional finance and they said, Hey, we have this new digital way of like money payment.

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Yeah.

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And whatever else, right?

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And then crypto is taking FinTech to the next level.

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How can we make improve that even more?

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Right?

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How can we take you to the even next level where everything is like instant and everything is extra cheap and everything is transparent so that you know exactly who's getting a share of what.

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I liked your primary point.

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Your initial points.

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Sorry.

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Look at the pain points in your business.

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See if this technology can help you because it's a new tech.

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You know?

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This is what technology is.

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It's like, look, just think of olden times.

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It's like they invented this newfangled car.

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It's like, yeah, well, do you have anything where a car might be helpful?

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You know, it's like, oh, actually be really helpful over here.

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We'll get a car.

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I mean, the second point I find confusing though, I've got.

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I got 50 grand in my bank from a bounceback loan as many British businesses currently do.

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Cause the government basically handed out cash, handed out cash, cash, cash, and, and it's helping a lot of people.

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No doubt.

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Anyway, anyway, let's not get drawn into it.

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I got 50 grand in my bank.

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You say that, you go look at Defi, say, Hey, we'll give you three and a half percent if you buy this coin and then give it back to us or something.

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You're like, what the fuck?

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You know, I, I barely understand investment.

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You know, I'm, I, I as a business person, I'll be like, I'm gonna keep it liquid.

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Or I'm gonna put it to use, you know, but what would, what would I do in D five?

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What, what is a, a sensible thing to do?

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Yeah.

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Well, this takes us to exactly the product that I work for.

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So that was a p ah,

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uh, yeah.

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So at Origin, which is a company that I work for, uh, we have a product called O U S D or Origin Dollar.

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But that aside, what it really does is, uh, it allows you to get instant access to some sort of yield.

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Uh, this yield varies.

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I can, we never promise that you're gonna get 5% or 10% or whatever percent, right?

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But when you're a traditional bank, you're probably getting zero.

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Point zero five, maybe 1%.

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Uh, if you are in a high yield savings account, then you're getting three, three, 4%, whatever the case may be.

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Now, the beautiful thing about Defi and if it's done properly, and what I mean by properly is what I said earlier where a lot of this.

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00:12:28,665 --> 00:12:30,224
Garbage that you don't need to understand.

212
00:12:30,224 --> 00:12:34,425
The technological complexity is abstracted and you simply get the, the benefit of it.

213
00:12:34,484 --> 00:12:40,185
And what I mean by that, as a business owner, you get paid you from whatever, bounced back into your 50 grand, right?

214
00:12:40,185 --> 00:12:48,614
And then it automatically starts earning, uh, interest without you having to press a button or you, without you having to move it into a different account without you understanding how it all works.

215
00:12:48,614 --> 00:12:50,655
You just see your balance of 50,000.

216
00:12:50,954 --> 00:12:55,185
Oh, so you are out the back doing some stuff with it and then gi giving some money back.

217
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:55,840
Yeah.

218
00:12:55,930 --> 00:12:57,400
And but what about security?

219
00:12:57,460 --> 00:12:59,140
Like, so it's still in my bank though.

220
00:12:59,530 --> 00:13:00,460
Yeah, it's still in your bank.

221
00:13:00,460 --> 00:13:01,330
You can still spend it.

222
00:13:01,330 --> 00:13:01,930
It's liquid.

223
00:13:01,930 --> 00:13:03,100
It's not locked up anywhere.

224
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:09,460
So this is where again, you're getting, extracting the benefits and then if you want to understand how it works in the backend, that's where it gets incredibly complicated.

225
00:13:09,460 --> 00:13:11,620
And yes, there are of course security risks that come with that.

226
00:13:11,650 --> 00:13:15,280
No, what I think one of the things you wanna know as a business is what are they doing with this?

227
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:17,890
To the sort of whole fruit fraud confusion.

228
00:13:17,890 --> 00:13:19,329
You know, I get what a bank does with it.

229
00:13:19,329 --> 00:13:20,770
They lend it out too much.

230
00:13:20,770 --> 00:13:22,060
Yeah, but what are, what are they do?

231
00:13:22,060 --> 00:13:27,369
What's, what are they doing with it in crypto when they tell me to bet my thing for the next version of something, you know?

232
00:13:27,420 --> 00:13:31,479
Well, well, I don't know the case that you're referring to, but I can tell you what we do and how we get that yield.

233
00:13:31,510 --> 00:13:34,229
Um, we do the same exact thing as the bank, which is the lending and borrowing.

234
00:13:34,630 --> 00:13:36,910
There are already decentralized version of that.

235
00:13:36,910 --> 00:13:38,680
For example, one is ave protocol.

236
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:38,859
That's.

237
00:13:38,875 --> 00:13:45,085
Actually, uh, based out of London, the founder at least, is based out of London and it's a, uh, decentralized, uh, lending market.

238
00:13:45,085 --> 00:13:47,755
So you can lend and borrow, uh, money as you see fit.

239
00:13:47,995 --> 00:13:51,595
And you, what you would do is you would get yield from lending out your assets.

240
00:13:51,625 --> 00:13:56,835
Um, and that is exactly what a bank does, except that a bank tends to keep a, a huge portion of that.

241
00:13:56,835 --> 00:14:05,035
And that's what I was speaking earlier about transparency, is that you don't know if the bank is 10 taking, uh, 20%, 30%, even maybe half of your half of that.

242
00:14:05,095 --> 00:14:07,135
And how many other intermediaries around.

243
00:14:07,405 --> 00:14:12,865
Uh, along the way are also taking a chunk of that, but with decentralization, everything is direct.

244
00:14:12,865 --> 00:14:17,245
It's peer to peer, so there's no middlemen in that sense, and therefore you're getting a higher benefit.

245
00:14:17,275 --> 00:14:20,155
That higher benefit translates into higher yield most of the time.

246
00:14:20,275 --> 00:14:20,605
Okay.

247
00:14:20,610 --> 00:14:24,205
And you mentioned there were risks that came along with ads.

248
00:14:24,210 --> 00:14:24,335
Yeah.

249
00:14:24,675 --> 00:14:27,505
So this is something that, that, that needs to be discussed.

250
00:14:27,505 --> 00:14:29,185
Crypto is very early stage, right?

251
00:14:29,295 --> 00:14:34,015
Everyone says it's just like the internet back in the nineties where a lot of like bad actors were a lot of like, just.

252
00:14:34,260 --> 00:14:35,939
Thing, bad things were happening in general.

253
00:14:36,270 --> 00:14:41,550
Um, the, the biggest risk in crypto are the security risk, uh, of the actual, of the code, of the technology.

254
00:14:41,579 --> 00:14:46,410
Uh, we are seeing hacks every day because, you know, for every good person, there's one bad one trying to take everything.

255
00:14:46,415 --> 00:14:49,530
You have a hack literally into the, the software itself.

256
00:14:49,535 --> 00:15:00,750
So it stops functioning and they, and they steal it, or they just make it not work or, yeah, usually they, because it's digital currency, you can just take these digital currencies and then you can do whatever else you want with them.

257
00:15:00,750 --> 00:15:03,150
Basically, they're, it's just like having money in your bank account.

258
00:15:03,150 --> 00:15:03,480
Right.

259
00:15:03,675 --> 00:15:08,385
So, um, in that sense, yes, the security of the protocol is something that's incredibly important.

260
00:15:08,655 --> 00:15:10,334
Now, what are we doing to protect against that?

261
00:15:10,334 --> 00:15:14,505
You can get audited by like incredibly, uh, talented firms, right?

262
00:15:14,505 --> 00:15:19,635
So you get these cybersecurity firms that all, all day long, they just look and protect code because even banks today, right?

263
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,765
They also have a ton of code and they also have a bunch of protections in place that keep.

264
00:15:23,565 --> 00:15:25,245
People from trying to hack your bank account.

265
00:15:25,455 --> 00:15:29,535
And, um, and the same technology can also be applied to crypto, the same security measures.

266
00:15:29,565 --> 00:15:31,095
But again, we're just very early stage.

267
00:15:31,095 --> 00:15:32,415
So that's number one.

268
00:15:32,685 --> 00:15:35,805
The second part is just the architecture of the underlying protocol.

269
00:15:35,805 --> 00:15:46,230
There's a lot of experimentation now, and what I mean by that is, Uh, all those, all of these different protocols that are shilling you something as we say, meaning, oh, put your money here because we're trying this new thing.

270
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:49,530
You're gonna get 20%, put your money in this other one because of whatever reason.

271
00:15:49,830 --> 00:15:55,890
Uh, but a lot of that is experimentation and it should not be done by those that don't fully understand what they're doing.

272
00:15:55,895 --> 00:15:55,960
Right.

273
00:15:56,490 --> 00:16:01,470
Uh, so the, the risk is that you could lose you all your money because again, it's very experimental and it's very early stage.

274
00:16:01,650 --> 00:16:02,850
So that's, that's one of the risks.

275
00:16:02,855 --> 00:16:05,400
What I, what I mean is that the architecture cannot be solid enough.

276
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:06,930
It's not a tried and trusted protocol.

277
00:16:06,930 --> 00:16:09,120
For example, ave the one that I mentioned earlier.

278
00:16:09,345 --> 00:16:16,215
Has been around for, I don't even know, I wanna say four, maybe five years now that in crypto we call, you know, battle tested.

279
00:16:16,215 --> 00:16:19,425
We call it a blue chip because that is old quote unquote.

280
00:16:19,785 --> 00:16:26,866
So that is, that is another risk, is that getting involved in these very early stage experimental sort of things that if you don't understand, just.

281
00:16:27,310 --> 00:16:28,090
Don't get into it.

282
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:28,840
Okay.

283
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:37,870
So I'm in my business and basically you're saying, look, you can do this investment stuff, have a look at your product, but if you don't feel comfortable, cause you don't understand it, don't do it.

284
00:16:37,870 --> 00:16:47,319
But if you, you can, you can look at your business and where you've got problems and you might, it might be a new set of tools to solve that problem with is in, you know, don't, don't, don't be afraid of the technology.

285
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:52,720
Do you think, I mean, is there, you know, do do, there's so many different coins now available.

286
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,910
You know, should a, should a business accept payment in coins?

287
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:57,210
Should it be holding coins?

288
00:16:58,100 --> 00:16:59,900
It goes back to the level of expertise.

289
00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:04,220
Again, if you're just gonna have crypto, but you have no idea what to do with it, then again, probably don't.

290
00:17:04,220 --> 00:17:11,060
Because you need to be able to turn it into cash to pay your employees, your payroll, uh, whatever expenses you have for your business.

291
00:17:11,060 --> 00:17:18,500
So if that's going to take away a lot of your time as a c E O or a, a, uh, owner of a business, then don't, don't do that.

292
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:18,800
Right?

293
00:17:18,829 --> 00:17:20,990
Uh, again, this comes more from a place of comfort.

294
00:17:22,075 --> 00:17:23,865
Where do you see it kind of going next?

295
00:17:23,895 --> 00:17:24,185
Yeah.

296
00:17:24,475 --> 00:17:25,765
In the next couple of years.

297
00:17:25,975 --> 00:17:36,895
Uh, you, you know, presumably you are sort of plugging a U S D and you know all about that, but is that something you see as those kind of new coins coming more and more, or new tokens coming up?

298
00:17:37,165 --> 00:17:40,945
Yeah, so I like to think of it as use cases rather than coins or tokens.

299
00:17:41,005 --> 00:17:42,595
Um, just because as I mentioned, I.

300
00:17:42,735 --> 00:17:45,524
See it as something that, that ideally would happen in the backend.

301
00:17:45,554 --> 00:17:51,104
Now there are some front facing use cases, for example, uh, metaverse or gaming or NFTs.

302
00:17:51,104 --> 00:17:52,334
Like all of that is fun.

303
00:17:52,635 --> 00:17:56,205
Uh, and that can actually, uh, interact with, with the end user.

304
00:17:56,264 --> 00:18:00,735
Now, I'm not encouraging anyone to actually buy a bunch of coins and, uh, just hold them because.

305
00:18:01,370 --> 00:18:02,870
They, they, they just wanna be part of it.

306
00:18:02,930 --> 00:18:06,950
They could, if they can afford to lose, um, in value during Denis bear market.

307
00:18:07,340 --> 00:18:08,690
Uh, but where, where is it going to go?

308
00:18:08,690 --> 00:18:13,010
So I think there will be some winning use cases and there will be some, uh, losing use cases.

309
00:18:13,010 --> 00:18:17,540
The winners will be, like I said, um, I think NFTs are going to do well, and I don't just mean those like.

310
00:18:17,725 --> 00:18:26,935
Cool images that people post online, uh, but actually mean NFTs as something that's unique that can hold intellectual property and can easily be transferable, which can apply to real estate.

311
00:18:26,935 --> 00:18:32,935
It can apply to the legal environment, it can apply to intellectual property within the legal ecosystem, and so on and so forth.

312
00:18:33,205 --> 00:18:35,815
I think that there's also a lot of use cases to be unlock in gaming.

313
00:18:36,355 --> 00:18:41,395
Um, so that's where there's a lot of inefficiencies in the game architecture, uh, and crypto can solve a lot of that.

314
00:18:41,485 --> 00:18:45,445
And of course, I believe that defy or decentralized finance is going to be one of the winning use cases.

315
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,340
Uh, and what I mean by that is I, I don't think that the future is fully decentralized.

316
00:18:49,340 --> 00:18:55,940
I think that the future is somewhere at the, uh, um, combination of centralized interfaces that are easy to use, easy to understand.

317
00:18:56,090 --> 00:19:01,130
Again, you just pay this button, it sends money, you pay this button, you get interest, and so on and so forth.

318
00:19:01,250 --> 00:19:09,920
But in the backend, it will be, uh, fully decentralized in, in an ideal world that is, in my opinion, what should happen in order to, to reach that mass adoption.

319
00:19:11,235 --> 00:19:13,605
Is there anything you're worried about with crypto?

320
00:19:13,795 --> 00:19:14,445
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

321
00:19:14,445 --> 00:19:17,595
So for example, uh, regulation that is not sound, right?

322
00:19:17,595 --> 00:19:20,115
That's something that you, you're asking me about the future of crypto.

323
00:19:20,175 --> 00:19:25,095
Um, I think that we as, as builders, need to play well with regulators because that is their job.

324
00:19:25,095 --> 00:19:26,566
It is to protect the interests of people, right?

325
00:19:26,895 --> 00:19:28,515
Uh, that, those that don't understand what they're doing.

326
00:19:28,545 --> 00:19:32,535
Um, but in order for this to evolve and for technology and.

327
00:19:32,590 --> 00:19:36,310
The financial system maybe to get better, you have to have sound regulation.

328
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:48,220
I think the regulators are not spending enough time really understanding exactly everything I'm talking about here, like the underlying use cases, how it all works, what the purpose is in order to issue sound regulation that will protect the consumer in the end.

329
00:19:48,610 --> 00:19:51,310
Um, so that's something that still needs to be figured out, especially in America.

330
00:19:51,730 --> 00:19:54,520
The, the type of legisla or regulation that's coming out is just.

331
00:19:54,834 --> 00:19:56,004
It makes no sense.

332
00:19:56,004 --> 00:19:57,625
It's like you clearly don't understand.

333
00:19:57,895 --> 00:20:00,745
Like there again, they're starting to, but it's gonna be a process.

334
00:20:01,074 --> 00:20:04,044
Business without Bullshit is brought to you by Ari Clark.

335
00:20:04,165 --> 00:20:07,764
Straight talking financial and legal advice since 1935.

336
00:20:08,245 --> 00:20:10,465
You can find us sad ari clark.com.

337
00:20:14,104 --> 00:20:17,364
So Andrew, what do you think is bullshit in business?

338
00:20:17,850 --> 00:20:21,929
I'm gonna go with, um, celebrity partnerships.

339
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:24,090
Ah, I the test.

340
00:20:24,270 --> 00:20:25,379
Oh, good shout.

341
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:30,120
Let, let's picture about celebrities and people in partnership with celebrities.

342
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:30,600
I'm excited.

343
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:31,979
Have we got some examples of this?

344
00:20:31,985 --> 00:20:32,169
Yeah.

345
00:20:32,429 --> 00:20:32,760
Yeah.

346
00:20:33,179 --> 00:20:33,570
Gosh.

347
00:20:33,570 --> 00:20:37,649
I mean, FTX and, uh, Tom Brady or Gisele, um, wait, wait, wait.

348
00:20:37,709 --> 00:20:45,330
Fdx is a crypto company and did it with Tom, Tom Brady, the world's most successful American football player.

349
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:45,570
Yeah.

350
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:46,649
Why do you think that's bullshit?

351
00:20:46,959 --> 00:20:54,040
I mean, I, I don't believe in celebrities endorsing something unless they're using it day in and day out and understand it, uh, perfectly.

352
00:20:54,040 --> 00:21:00,520
I don't think that Tom Brady sits at home, oh, fires up his ftx, or used to fire up his FTX and start trading on leverage.

353
00:21:00,730 --> 00:21:04,090
And, you know, un fully understood, uh, how it all worked.

354
00:21:04,270 --> 00:21:05,919
They sort of have to put their money where their mouth is.

355
00:21:06,530 --> 00:21:09,770
Yeah, I mean this is, it's, it's happening everywhere.

356
00:21:09,860 --> 00:21:12,110
Kim Kardashian and like private equity firm.

357
00:21:12,110 --> 00:21:17,389
I'm like, does she really understand how private equity works or are they just using her name in order to get deal flow right?

358
00:21:17,540 --> 00:21:25,401
Presumably if you, if you are properly invested in it, so something like we have this big thing over here, or fairly big thing about re and football club.

359
00:21:26,020 --> 00:21:26,679
It's not that big.

360
00:21:26,679 --> 00:21:28,689
No, that's owned by, have you not heard this?

361
00:21:28,689 --> 00:21:29,980
It's owned by Ryan Reynolds.

362
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:30,310
Yeah.

363
00:21:30,879 --> 00:21:31,320
Oh yeah.

364
00:21:32,350 --> 00:21:33,280
Everyone loves Ryan.

365
00:21:33,370 --> 00:21:33,820
Yeah.

366
00:21:33,820 --> 00:21:41,860
But he, you know, he actually has paid money to own something and turns up at all their matches and makes an effort presumably, that kind of thing's.

367
00:21:41,860 --> 00:21:42,340
Okay.

368
00:21:42,459 --> 00:21:42,699
Yeah.

369
00:21:42,699 --> 00:21:47,169
But this is different because, for example, ftx, it's trading, I mean, most people dunno how to trade.

370
00:21:47,169 --> 00:21:49,479
So if I were like the, one of the world's most famous.

371
00:21:49,754 --> 00:21:51,975
Supermodels, football players, doesn't matter, whatever.

372
00:21:51,975 --> 00:21:54,854
And I knew that my audience is someone who respects me for that.

373
00:21:54,915 --> 00:21:57,554
And I know that the product that I'm selling is a trading product.

374
00:21:57,554 --> 00:21:58,365
I'll be like, hold on.

375
00:21:58,635 --> 00:22:01,185
Uh, am I selling something that people actually understand?

376
00:22:01,185 --> 00:22:03,945
Could they lo lose all of their life savings doing this?

377
00:22:04,064 --> 00:22:06,915
If I'm selling like, uh, some skincare that's 20 bucks, who cares?

378
00:22:06,915 --> 00:22:07,786
You bought it, it didn't work for you.

379
00:22:07,925 --> 00:22:08,004
Whatever.

380
00:22:08,564 --> 00:22:09,854
I actually think you'll bang on.

381
00:22:09,915 --> 00:22:18,375
I, I think it's fair to say that, uh, you cannot lend your brand of trust to something like this unless you really understand it.

382
00:22:18,379 --> 00:22:19,455
If you really understand.

383
00:22:19,455 --> 00:22:20,000
Stood it.

384
00:22:20,060 --> 00:22:29,209
And then I think in something as complex as this is a celebrity, you'd have to say, I'm not going on public endorsements, but I am happy to explain it on a podcast or something.

385
00:22:29,540 --> 00:22:33,290
What I understand my experience of it, why I think there's some positive aspects.

386
00:22:33,290 --> 00:22:43,129
I also think, given that America's the most litigious comp country on the planet, that why aren't they thinking to themselves What's gonna happen when somebody who doesn't understand it loses a.

387
00:22:43,725 --> 00:22:50,445
Buck ton of money and goes to court and says, I only invested in this because Tom Brady told me to, and I've now lost money.

388
00:22:50,445 --> 00:22:52,965
I think, I think they'll be friends with the owners for starters.

389
00:22:52,965 --> 00:22:54,045
I think that's where it starts.

390
00:22:54,045 --> 00:23:06,675
So they'll think, oh, I trust them, and they, you know, they'll be lots of legal contracting about protecting them, but I think you'll fucking bang on, I think it's fucking outrageous to go out there and promote something as risky and complicated as crypto.

391
00:23:06,675 --> 00:23:08,685
Unless you, you, you, you, you are.

392
00:23:09,125 --> 00:23:12,125
Proper in that space and, and have the right to endorse it.

393
00:23:12,125 --> 00:23:12,545
So yeah.

394
00:23:12,545 --> 00:23:13,145
Ding ding.

395
00:23:13,175 --> 00:23:14,255
I think that's a great show.

396
00:23:15,575 --> 00:23:17,255
Okay, this is quick Far Round's.

397
00:23:17,255 --> 00:23:18,395
Gonna keep a short and punchy.

398
00:23:18,395 --> 00:23:20,885
We're gonna ask you a list of questions, get to know you a little better.

399
00:23:20,890 --> 00:23:24,455
You have about five to 10 seconds per answer per question.

400
00:23:24,455 --> 00:23:29,245
We are not gonna interrupt you these, putting some music on Ham.

401
00:23:29,435 --> 00:23:29,885
Hammer off.

402
00:23:30,395 --> 00:23:31,405
What was your first job?

403
00:23:32,475 --> 00:23:39,195
Uh, I was working a campus job at university where I was swiping cards to make sure the students, uh, lived where they were supposed to live.

404
00:23:40,095 --> 00:23:40,875
What was your worst job?

405
00:23:42,675 --> 00:23:45,885
Uh, I owned a physical c commodities trading company.

406
00:23:45,945 --> 00:23:48,525
Uh, so even though I ran a company, it was the worst.

407
00:23:48,715 --> 00:23:48,955
A what?

408
00:23:49,245 --> 00:23:50,295
A work company my life.

409
00:23:50,715 --> 00:23:52,005
Physical C Commodities Training.

410
00:23:53,085 --> 00:23:53,685
Commodities.

411
00:23:53,835 --> 00:23:54,465
Oh, commodities.

412
00:23:54,465 --> 00:23:55,575
Physical commodities training.

413
00:23:55,575 --> 00:23:55,665
Yeah.

414
00:23:55,905 --> 00:23:56,865
Okay, welcome about that.

415
00:23:57,015 --> 00:23:58,365
Favorite subjects at school.

416
00:23:59,450 --> 00:24:02,120
Math, uh, what's your special skill?

417
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:04,550
Ooh.

418
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,260
Uh, let's go with creative thinking, lateral thinking or creative thinking.

419
00:24:09,265 --> 00:24:11,090
La uh, creative thinking.

420
00:24:11,330 --> 00:24:12,710
What did you wanna be when you grew up?

421
00:24:13,220 --> 00:24:13,820
A lawyer.

422
00:24:15,980 --> 00:24:17,110
Now that's just good choice.

423
00:24:17,540 --> 00:24:20,150
What did your parents want you to be, grow up when you grew up?

424
00:24:21,275 --> 00:24:21,965
Happy.

425
00:24:22,415 --> 00:24:22,985
Oh yeah.

426
00:24:23,405 --> 00:24:23,795
Common.

427
00:24:23,855 --> 00:24:25,445
What's your go-to karaoke song?

428
00:24:25,865 --> 00:24:26,195
Hmm.

429
00:24:26,375 --> 00:24:27,965
Um, something Whitney Houston.

430
00:24:29,345 --> 00:24:29,585
Okay.

431
00:24:29,585 --> 00:24:30,455
That's difficult to sing.

432
00:24:30,460 --> 00:24:30,595
Sing.

433
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,315
I'm now thinking bodyguard.

434
00:24:32,525 --> 00:24:32,705
Yeah.

435
00:24:32,705 --> 00:24:33,515
Everyone thinks the bodyguard.

436
00:24:34,825 --> 00:24:35,115
Yeah.

437
00:24:35,135 --> 00:24:35,795
We don't need that.

438
00:24:36,965 --> 00:24:37,515
Isn't that it?

439
00:24:37,925 --> 00:24:38,556
We didn't say that.

440
00:24:38,705 --> 00:24:40,955
There is usually alcohol before karaoke.

441
00:24:41,345 --> 00:24:41,645
That.

442
00:24:41,915 --> 00:24:43,446
Without that I would, that wouldn't have choice.

443
00:24:43,451 --> 00:24:44,525
Karaoke choice is amazing.

444
00:24:44,585 --> 00:24:46,025
I mean, honestly, we could solve a lot.

445
00:24:46,085 --> 00:24:47,225
I think they would do a lot better.

446
00:24:47,225 --> 00:24:50,285
These, uh, big political conferences where they've all gotta get on that.

447
00:24:50,525 --> 00:24:57,695
Richie and all the world leaders have to do a karaoke on the first stage just to get over just to, just to get over their shit and loosen up a bit.

448
00:24:57,695 --> 00:25:02,645
I mean, how much better do an a and b studies with their decision making and, and, and, and politic?

449
00:25:02,735 --> 00:25:03,755
What is this happened?

450
00:25:03,755 --> 00:25:04,625
Did it Yes.

451
00:25:04,655 --> 00:25:05,315
No way.

452
00:25:05,405 --> 00:25:15,665
Well, the, the person in UK politics, he's obsessed with karaoke and used to throw karaoke parties all the time, at which all the other politicians used to go and sing terrible songs.

453
00:25:15,665 --> 00:25:15,995
There's a.

454
00:25:16,399 --> 00:25:18,409
Terrible clip out there is Liz Trust.

455
00:25:18,679 --> 00:25:20,389
And look what she did to our country.

456
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:30,020
Oh, she, for the three and a half minutes, she was Prime Minister office dogs, business or bullshit business all day apart when they need a we.

457
00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:30,620
Oh yeah.

458
00:25:30,649 --> 00:25:32,179
Um, have you ever been fired?

459
00:25:34,354 --> 00:25:36,635
Does mutually agreeing to leave a company?

460
00:25:36,695 --> 00:25:36,915
Yes.

461
00:25:37,584 --> 00:25:40,475
Yeah, Alex, cuz that's basically why happens when get fired.

462
00:25:41,614 --> 00:25:46,564
You go, I'm gonna fire you, or you could resign, you know, what's your vice?

463
00:25:47,495 --> 00:25:47,794
Ooh.

464
00:25:47,824 --> 00:25:52,725
Uh, I would say, uh, Anger, maybe I do have a hot temper, anger.

465
00:25:53,635 --> 00:25:54,565
Oh, and that's your vice.

466
00:25:54,565 --> 00:25:57,145
That's like, so you must do like kickboxing or something.

467
00:25:57,145 --> 00:26:00,115
Do you, what'd you, what'd you, how do you, how'd you, oh, you smoke a lot of dope.

468
00:26:00,115 --> 00:26:01,555
What's the, what's the solution?

469
00:26:01,615 --> 00:26:05,995
You know, uh, I do a lot of strength training, so yeah, I do have an outlet.

470
00:26:05,995 --> 00:26:09,565
So when, when you get angry, you can hit hard, is that what you're saying?

471
00:26:09,835 --> 00:26:10,615
I could, yeah.

472
00:26:11,125 --> 00:26:12,055
Uh, right.

473
00:26:12,175 --> 00:26:12,865
Uh, that was it.

474
00:26:12,865 --> 00:26:13,555
You did great.

475
00:26:13,645 --> 00:26:14,815
Um, fantastic.

476
00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:24,940
So this is where we're gonna give you 30 seconds just to pitch a company, um, or whatever you'd like.

477
00:26:24,940 --> 00:26:25,660
Uh, go for it.

478
00:26:25,870 --> 00:26:26,290
All right.

479
00:26:26,295 --> 00:26:28,120
So, um, I work at Origin Protocol.

480
00:26:28,125 --> 00:26:32,380
Origin is in the business of bringing the next 100 million users into crypto.

481
00:26:32,890 --> 00:26:33,881
We're starting with two use cases.

482
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,810
One is actually in the NFT space, which is why I was reluctant earlier.

483
00:26:38,110 --> 00:26:42,250
Uh, and what we're doing there is, uh, enabling creators to.

484
00:26:42,705 --> 00:26:45,585
Create their custom storefronts for their N F T collections.

485
00:26:45,585 --> 00:26:59,165
Whether you are an individual creator, an artist in London, or even a big brand, um, you have your own interface where you can have, uh, where you can connect with your community and, uh, sell your art or whatever, uh, product you, it is that you're selling by NFTs.

486
00:26:59,820 --> 00:27:08,280
Uh, on the other side, we are leveraging the power of decentralized finance to build a suite of products that will onboard, like I said, hopefully millions of users in the long term.

487
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:21,870
In the ecosystem, we're starting with something called O U S D or Origin Dollar, uh, which is a simple way for anyone in crypto who understands crypto and defi, uh, to earn superior yield, uh, on their holdings.

488
00:27:21,899 --> 00:27:24,449
Um, so what that means in simple terms is that you hold.

489
00:27:24,735 --> 00:27:39,885
A stable coin such as, uh, a dollar in your account and you're getting yield anywhere from, you know, a couple percentage points to double digit, uh, yield on, on it, uh, passively without having to learn how it all works, what happens at the backend, uh, visiting a bunch of websites and so on and so forth.

490
00:27:40,304 --> 00:27:45,915
I think that was slightly more than 30 seconds, but we'll let you off and if people wanna find out about you, where do they go?

491
00:27:46,185 --> 00:27:47,774
Yeah, I'm, uh, I'm on LinkedIn.

492
00:27:47,835 --> 00:27:52,695
I also have a Twitter that I never use, but, uh, you can't hit me up there if you'd like to learn more.

493
00:27:52,784 --> 00:27:53,445
Um, man.

494
00:27:53,445 --> 00:27:54,524
Yeah, those are my platforms.

495
00:27:54,794 --> 00:27:56,054
So there you have it.

496
00:27:56,145 --> 00:27:57,024
Thank you very much, Andrew.

497
00:27:57,495 --> 00:27:57,865
That was great.

498
00:27:58,274 --> 00:28:00,735
Uh, thank you to Pippa, thank you to de our producer.

499
00:28:01,095 --> 00:28:06,585
Uh, this was this week's episode of Business Without Bullshit, and we'll be back with Bwb Extra on Thursday.

500
00:28:06,590 --> 00:28:07,814
Until then, it is chow.