So when a child sees an adult behave in a way that is big

and is a little jarring, and then experiences the adult come

back and soften and apologize and take ownership, they know they can

build trust. Can you imagine that child knowing how to build

trust and taking that into their adult world? Then not, not

being vigilant around people, hypervigilant, not being mistrusting, not

pushing people away when conflict arises. This is

massive, man. Massive. Welcome to The King Within,

a podcast for men who seem to have it all yet feel like they're losing

what matters most. I'm Mike Salemi, and I've been there. Successful

on paper but disconnected on the inside. This isn't about grinding

harder. It's about mastering your emotions, leading with calm

strength, and rebuilding trust at home. Each week we dive into

real stories and tools for becoming the man your family runs towards.

Not away from, because you didn't build this life to lose yourself in it. This

is the king within. Let's do the work. I just sat down with

Stefanos Sifandos, author of the new book Turned On and Turned

In, and we spent the majority of this conversation on one thing:

repair. How to repair with your partner, how to repair with your

kids, and why most of us never learned how to do it because we never

saw it modeled. Steph breaks down why relationships are the

most powerful catalyst for growth why healing almost always

has to happen in a relational context, and what it

actually looks like to take genuine ownership without falling into

codependency or shame. All right,

Steph, my brother, what's going on, man? Excited

to be here, man. I'm excited you're here as well.

Um, a little bit of a backstory: I recently— I think maybe it was

actually because you've seeded the release of your book, I believe, over the last

few months in different ways. But as soon as I got caught wind of it,

I was like— the name of the book, absolutely loved. I shared it

with my wife, she's like, that is such a good name. I told Christine she

came up with that.

Yeah, man, well, we, we love the book. And as I was sharing before,

one, the topic is, um, just a massive area

that I've got a lot of curiosity in. Am currently deepening within myself,

how I show up in relationship. Even though I mainly support guys,

relationships always come up in the conversation.

And so again, super excited to dive in and to spread the

good word. And when I was feeling into

where do I want to go today with you, because obviously there's so many angles

to this, the area that I'd love to just

get right in and unpack is Well, one,

it's why can or why are relationships so

challenging for especially men? But like, why is it such

fertile ground for conflict, for also self-growth? But

why are relationships potentially so challenging for so many of us?

Yeah, relationships are so challenging for so many of us because we need them so

deeply and we're so scared to lose them or

see the fullness of ourselves in those relationships. Relationships are mirrors. They're mirrors

for what we can't see within ourselves. They're mirrors for

what pain we've been harboring, what fear we've been avoiding, what,

you know, maybe quote-unquote trauma we've been running from.

Um, and they're so important because they are probably the

biggest catalyst for growth. And to me,

growth is synonymous with love. It's synonymous with

God to some degree. It's, it's synonymous with

the ever-expansive self, the mystery. And that is why

we're here, to grow, right? And so relationships bring us face to face

with growth. And while we all want growth, well, most of us do,

and most of the time it's generally pretty confronting.

And so that's the juxtaposition, that's the paradox, right? The double-edged sword.

So that's why Relationships are so important. They bring us face to face

with truth, and truth is really fucking scary.

Yes. Do you think, Steph, that this

is something I was wondering— do you think that if someone's experienced some type of

wound in a relationship, can that only be

healed in future relationships? Or like, how much

healing can someone do if they've

experienced some deep challenge in prior relationship? How much healing can someone do on

their own, and is there things that can only be healed in

the presence of someone else? There are a number of factors

that, that impact and influence the— that, that exploration

and that answer. Um, the immediate answer is,

um, depends, right? And so most wounds or most pains that

are caused or that are experienced are happen in the context

of a relational setting. Therefore, the quote-unquote healing or the

wholeness process that takes place, it's far more effective in

a relational setting. So for example, if a child grows up

with a very distant, absent father

or an abusive narcissistic mother,

their experience of intimacy and their experience of closeness is

jaded, or it's, it's just very specific. It's a specific kind of context

around intimacy. Most people can't be trusted,

people are generally emotionally unavailable. Maybe the perception or the

idea or the belief is that people are selfish, they only care about themselves. I

can't be myself, I'm going to be judged, I'm going to be criticized, etc.

We then often need real examples— again,

paradox, juxtaposition, the contrast of that— to

learn. Because contrast— and contrast is—

we live in a world of duality and contrast so that we can learn in

a very rich way. And so if we then have an experience of someone that

meets us with compassion that actually is available, that sticks around you in

conflict, that gets curious, not judgmental, that is compassionate, not

angry. And we have that real-life experience over and over again

consistently, because initially we may push it away and reject it because

it's not familiar and we don't trust it. But eventually, especially if we're deliberately,

intentionally working on that on ourselves, we'll let that

in and we end up healing that wound. Because the belief then comes in and

says, oh, people can be trusted. Oh, oh,

not all men are emotionally unavailable. Oh, not all women

are not nurturing and not caring and

super self-absorbed, right? Like if that was the examples that I gave earlier, if that

was your experience, because then what happens is we, we take that

experience of intensity, it registers and lands in our nervous systems, in our

psychology, and then we make it mean something, and then

we generalize and label and we become hypervigilant. So

actually, we sort of become hypervigilant first, and then we generalize. And so now we

paint everyone with the same brush. So we have a relational experience of

the contrast of that. Eventually, if we allow ourselves to, and if it's

in our dharma, karma, life's path, we'll let that in and

we'll have a reorientation around safety and relationship.

And so again, like ipso facto,

having healing in a relationship or in a relational

context is often not only the fastest way, but the

most beautiful and profound way as well. It can happen on your own,

a little more challenging, very rare circumstances, I would say.

We're relational beings. You know, hearing that,

just reflecting on my own relationship, not just in my current marriage but in

past ones, and I'm just coming—

it's getting more and more clear to me, like, obviously I lead men's

work, I also participate in a lot of it, and there's certain

things that work great with men's work. And I'm continually reminded

at the end of circle, it's like when I could feel like so empowered, had

a great release feeling in my body, sitting nice and tall, breathing

deep, and then all of a sudden I come home. And maybe there is a

difference. For sure, I would say there is a difference compared to if I came

into conflict without having gone to you know, being with guys

and working on some of this stuff. But it's so

humbling and it has been so humbling for me.

I'm like, God damn, this is just a different level

or requires a different type of tools or

a different thing. To your point earlier that I— and

I'm almost— I'm curious to ask, like, how many men in your experience

have not only received from an early age

quality modeling on how to navigate

relationships, intimate relationships? My experience, most

of us haven't. And I actually don't even know— I can't think of

many people that I have met, or anybody that has. Have you?

Honestly, man, like 1 or 2 in 100 that have received genuinely

healthy modeling, maybe. Could you share

what, what for you stands out? Like, what is healthy modeling? What does that entail

to you? And like, what comes up when you feel into that? Yeah, if I

was to, if I was to bring it down into one word, I would say,

um, repair, right? Like, that healthy modeling is repair. So

now I'm going to elaborate on that and go a little deeper into it, right?

Please. Now, now, just before I do, I want to just

say something else, share something else on the relational piece. I think you asked a

very powerful question around— simple question but very powerful, man, and profound—

around can we heal in— do we have to heal in a relational context if

that wound happens in that? Because most wounds really do. Or

experiences that are intense and registered as that intensity and that

trauma, or, you know, can we do it on our own?

The thing is that there's so much more value

in— it's easier doing it on your own because it's safer,

right? And the simple act of vulnerability actually is

unsafe. Like, if you think— if you really think about

that, it's this tug of war, this push-pull

relationship between safe and unsafe. Right, but ultimately it's unsafe.

You're risking a great deal, but it's in that risk that you know

yourself in deeper ways. You feel yourself in deeper ways, maybe what has been

unfelt. So, so through that relation, that relating,

that choice to relate where it's really confronting and scary,

you're choosing to move from a disempowered state into an empowered

state. That is, that is the quote-unquote healing of

trauma at some level. At all the levels, actually.

It's feeling disempowered and disempowerment, and then

experiencing empowerment and rewriting,

reframing, retuning that entire

experience. Really, really matters.

What is healthy modeling? Repair. So what I mean by that—

we are imperfect men, and this— and I live this in my own

life, and it's such a hassle. And it's so

fucking difficult because I just put so much pressure on myself to be perfect or

to be the best father or the best husband or the best human.

And I just— I'm not going to get it. It's— and I'm not meant to.

We're not meant to be perfect. We're meant to be human. That doesn't excuse

poor behavior, right? And that doesn't mean that we can just keep

behaving poorly and behaving unconsciously and hurting

other people and hurting ourselves and consciously and unconsciously choosing to

live from our wounds and our pain. Right, and then

just say sorry, and all of a sudden we're repairing and it's all good. Now

we're healing, you know, now we're healthy. Not at all.

So there's obviously nuance to this, a lot of gray in this. But what

I mean by repair is I mean that

as a human, as whatever identity you hold— man, a husband,

a father, a leader, a business owner, whatever, you know, I've

got an athlete, whatever it is, whatever titles, whatever identities do you

hold that you're intentionally striving

and choosing to embody a better version of yourself

as often as possible, right? That's the sort of foundation. There's your come from. The

come from is, hey, I'm fallible, I'm human, I'm going to mess

up. I don't intend to. I'm going to keep coming back to

truth. I'm going to keep coming back to integrity and honesty with myself as often

as I can. And from that place then

you seek to understand the other and you seek to understand yourself.

And in seeking genuinely— this has got to be authentic.

You're not doing it in a codependent way because if you do this, then they'll

be okay, so then you'll have relief and you'll be okay. You're not doing it

from that, that relational wound. You're doing it from a place of this is genuinely

important to me. I will seek to understand the other person. If I behave

in a malicious way, in a way that hurts someone else, I'm going to come

face to face with my ego. I'm going to look at myself.

I'm going to feel myself through that process, and I'm going to

instigate repair with my own nervous system and that person's nervous system in the

ways that we have agreed upon, or in the ways that— because agreements

matter, communication matters— in the ways that are meaningful to that person, meaningful

to me. I'm going to carry an intention of repair. I'm not going to let

my ego and personality let me be in fear and control

and as a byproduct of that, continuously hurt myself and others and create emotional

distance. Because we all want to be needed, seen, heard, understood, accepted,

respected, appreciated— especially men. Those last—

accepted, respected, appreciated. And so that's what

I mean by repair. That's healthy modeling. So now translate that. I,

I'll give you an example of my life, and this is really interesting what happened

this morning actually. So I have a practice

So does my wife Christine. You know, Christine, we have

a practice that if we behave in a particular way that is hurtful,

you know, within our dynamic, with our family dynamic and our daughter

as well— we have a nearly 4-year-old daughter, she's 4 in March, mid-March—

we repair. So sometimes I may raise my voice,

I may be stern, or I may be a little

too rigid with my daughter.

As soon, quickly as possible, I'll regulate my own nervous system.

I will go to her and I will apologize, and I will

instigate repair, as much as my ego sometimes doesn't

want to do it, but I will instigate repair.

Now I'll request forgiveness and I'll check in with her. We have a process for

all of that, and I'm not— I'm, of course, I'm doing it for me, but

I'm doing it for us and for her as well. And so,

and I will say to her, I'm sorry, I take complete ownership. We're going to—

we have a process, right? This morning, because

my little girl isn't— she sleeps okay, but

she could use some support in the sleeping department. She just wakes up early and

just is full of, you know, demanding. She's very strong personality anyway. Like, I mean,

early then, like sometimes 4:30, 5 o'clock. Like,

anyway, you know, I'm up late working and anyway. So

she was a little demanding this morning. She was just being— I don't want to

say she's being mean because she's 4 years old, it's not, you know, but she

was— she, she had attitude, right? And so like 3, 2, 2

hours later, she comes to me and she says, Daddy, I'm

sorry I was frustrated before. I said, okay, baby, there's

no problem. Thank you so much for saying sorry. Are you repairing? She says,

yeah, I'm repairing. I said, well, I'm sorry I was, I was a little tired

and I didn't respond to you straight away. And like, we just got into

it. So she instigated that, right? And so you can

see that repair is so important for so many reasons.

And I can go a little deeper into this if you want me to.

Absolutely. Let me, let me go a little deeper. I think that

the, the thing that I'm— of all, there's so much,

but this is the thing. This is the thing. Yeah. And I

wanted to still— like, there, of course, there are many

characteristics, factors, practices that impact

healthy modeling. But, you know, we can focus

on all of them. It's okay. But we also only have much time. But I

think repair is big, man, because when a child

experiences the softening of an adult's ego

and the movement— again, this is a lot of unconscious reading that's

taking place here, unconscious observation of

one's environment through their nervous system, right? Um, and

then imprinting on their brain and their perception of reality and their,

their value set and their worldviews and their understanding of

relationships and healthy intimacy and closeness and connection and all that stuff.

We're very primal beings fundamentally, man. That, that—

yes, we have a prefrontal cortex that's quite advanced, as

advanced as we've ever known apparently, right? Like

consciousness expanded And we're very— our

brain still orients towards what's the most dangerous thing that I need to avoid.

That's it. So when a child during their formative

years, learning their way through the world, understanding the value and the importance and the

safety of relationships in their world, sees an adult

do— feels an adult do something, that's also the association is

that's their primary caregiver. I can't live without that person. Because remember, strength in

numbers. You go back millions of years ago as hominoids moving through the world, even

hundreds of thousands of years ago. From what we understand,

like strength in numbers. Environment was a volatile place. You need each

other. And if you fall out of goodwill with each other, that means certain

death. Brain doesn't want that. Nervous system doesn't want that. That's very

scary. So when a child sees an adult behave in a

way that is big and is a little jarring and then experiences

the adult come back and soften and apologize and take ownership,

they know they can build trust. Now, can you imagine that child

knowing how to build trust and taking that into their adult world? Then

not, not being vigilant around people, hypervigilant, not being

mistrusting, not pushing people away when conflict arises.

This is massive, man. Massive. And so this is why

repair is so important, especially if it's sincere and it's

genuine, because now you've got two people growing through that

process, and the intention is to not keep making those choices over and over

again. You have how many mistakes do you have until you get it quote

unquote right? So yeah, it's a mistake, but it's more of like a mistake.

I'll keep having these mistakes, but my intention is to have less of them.

And in that humility, your child witnesses that. And so they

hide less. There's a process when repair is open in a family

dynamic, in a relationship during those formative years, that child hides

less now. They wear less masks. They be more of themselves. They're closer to

their truth. Not to get biblical and Christian here,

Jesus said, and you look at many other religious faiths and

spiritualities cross-culturally over multiple time

horizons, there are central truths to all of that. One of them is the

truth shall set you free. If you're wearing less

masks and you're hiding less, by default,

you're closer to your truth. You're closer to truth, to being in

reality, in touch with reality. You're not wearing so many fucking

masks. So that person now becomes an

adult and isn't shy of their voice. They're empowered, not

disempowered. They're less traumatized, not more traumatized.

They're more able to be in their power and their voice and their truth

because they've had experience of repair. They haven't had an experience like in

my world when I grew up, like I would get physically

belted. There was never a sorry after that. There was never a

repair. That didn't slow down. It slowed down because I got older, not because

It slowed down because it was not the most healthiest thing

to do relationally. So this is why

I think, you know, repair— and I actually don't even think I've ever been

asked that question, brother. So this is sort of really the first time I'm

riffing on it in this way. Um, and I

just think, you know, the more I speak to you with— I'm going to pause

in a second now— the more valuable repair actually is, and the more I'm going

to speak to it a lot more. Well,

this— okay, well, there's, there's a lot here. One, one of which

I don't want to forget this because this was, this was something that just happened

with me. It's happened a few times now. So our boy Luca, you

met him, just absolute sweetheart, as are so many young

kids, right? And now he's also big, dude.

He's powerful, dudes. The dude, like, Lauren's family is like, my

family's all Sicilian, super short, 5 foot, like tiny,

you know, tiny, tiny. But just like Sicilian

bricklayers and all that stuff. Dad, my dad laid marble and

granite for most of his life until he went into the tooling

business because his body was so beat up from that. But I bring that up

because like Lauren's family's big. Luke is stocky. He eats more than most

women and he's 3. And so he's strong,

man. And so now he's getting— there's moments when

he's in peak, whatever it is, he doesn't get what he wants

or he's the tyrant. And he'll get physical. So like,

just— I think it was last night, my— I'm still like cut up from it

a bit. Like, and his nails were there. He grabbed my face and

was like, Papa, no. And so our— and I'm learning as

I go, like, truthfully learning as we go, right? Me too.

So like, there's certain times where I can take, you know, if he hits

me, you know, I'll make sure, you know, I'll let him know, like,

you know, it's not okay to hurt Papa. I might restrain him a bit. Just,

I'm not going to get— let myself you know, him come at me. But

this time, it— like, he sunk his nails into my lip,

and it was really painful. And what ends

up happening is what we've been doing is we'll take him into a room upstairs,

like our neutral room. I sit with him, I regulate with him.

And it's funny because when I used to do this,

I would talk to him right away, like, hey, Pop, you know, hey, Bubba, you,

you angry right now? And he, after like the third

time, he's like, Papa, stop talking. Papa, no talk. And I'm like,

what? And so what he was teaching me was he just wanted me to

regulate with him. So now when I go up, I just sit with him until

I feel him regulate with me, and then we, we talk.

But what happened was, is when I took him upstairs, he did it again.

And I remember in that moment, like, I went to level

8. And it was so quick. I grabbed him and like

literally picked him up and I mean, I didn't hurt him by any means,

but I put him down fast. And I was— that aggression came out

because I was physically hurt. And I like in that moment it was like, fuck,

this, this got to stop. But the thing that I'm still like

in part hurting over is it's so small.

It was so small. But I felt what I experienced was like

fear from him. From Dad, you know? And

I'm like, so I sat him down and then, and then, and then, you know,

we, we chatted and we always hug after and we do that.

But I'm just feeling as more of these things come up, as

is natural, like I'm

feeling, uh, you know what,

uh, not what could this do to him, but I just felt the innocence of

him And what I experienced was

fear coming from me. And I was like, fuck, man.

Damn. So when you were sharing that, I was

just feeling into that. And, and I don't know what I could have

done different because, you know, we regulated, we did all the things, but I'm just

really feeling that moment and like a bit

angry, frustrated, and

bummed. You know, and maybe it was necessary. But I don't know if

you have any thoughts on that. But that was just really just what happened. It

was— I think it was yesterday. Yeah, I mean, first thing, my thought

is I appreciate you sharing, just being honest with her. And, you know, I

could also share with you so many times where I've just— I feel like, damn,

I wish I've done better. Because, you know, our children, man, are

tremendous learning points and growth points for us

as adults, you know. There's, there's this

school of thought that says, you know, that the children in

our lives, our children, sons

and daughters, are reflections of us at the same age, especially if

there's a consistent pattern of disruption that's taking place. I'm not insinuating that's happening here,

by the way. It can be a moment-to-moment thing, and it can also be a

consistent thing too, right? Like, and so

the, the opportunities for us to work on things, you know But again, like, in

that moment, are you going to be perfect? Are you going to be Zen and

just stay at a 1? You know, maybe not. But

maybe it's okay for your boy to see you get big

but also come down and experience that contrast and that

range, right? And then you take ownership of, hey, I'm sorry, I got a little

too big and that hurt. And like, you know, and, and maybe

eventually you learn, you get to say to him, hey, I'm moving

look, I'm moving towards an 8 and I don't want to be an 8 in

front of you, so I'm going to go take some space now. Like, whatever the,

the conversation is, the evolution of that is, right? Um, and

it's not for me to say, you know, what you did was right or wrong.

I think, man, you know, you're human and you're— again, I don't want to

excuse quote-unquote poor behavior. I look at more patterns, man. Like, if you're saying

to me, hey Steph, like, I'm getting angry at my boy, you know, multiple times

a day, every day, and I have been for the last year and I can't

control it Well, we better have a conversation. Like, when you, you know,

you say to me, hey, every now and then, you know, I haven't, I haven't

slept and this is happening, and I'll go to an 8 and

I'll get upset. Like, okay, we can work on that, but that's not a thing

necessarily. So I just want to give you that context too. Like, you're a— yeah,

I know you're a good man, you're a good human, you're a good dad,

you care sincerely, you're a genuine person, you're in the work.

Like The biggest thing we can do, I

think, is fucking meet ourselves with a little more compassion and kindness.

You know, I'll share another story with you as well. Like, this is a couple

of months ago, um, we were— she

was on the bar doing potty, and

she was— the thing was just,

she was— she hadn't slept much that night. She was really, really

difficult, being really difficult, right? And difficult because my— I didn't have the

capacity in those moments. Not because she's a difficult kid, it was—

that's also— I'm a big part of that equation, right? Like, it's not just, oh,

she's being difficult and it's her fault. No, it's like, in those moments, my

nervous system's not holding it, right? Like, I'm doing the thing anyway. Put that aside.

I wanted to— like, I had a thought, like, I wanted to pick her up

and shake her, right? And not be physically abusive or anything like

that with it, but like, I just wanted to pick up and say, stop, stop

being so— you know, like, what you're doing, stop what you're doing. In other words,

I was relying on her codependently, right? To, to, for her

to, she can just change the thing that she's doing, then I'll be okay,

right? In that moment. Now I didn't do any of that, and actually

I stayed really regulated with her. I was curious with her, and I

got down to her level, and I was just, I was just with her. And

I said, I know, I was empathizing. I know, darling, it's really difficult right now.

She had a thing with mum, and like, she was just, she got upset. She

was just being just screaming, and, and

I was just really regulated with her, like genuinely really regulated,

except for that little thought that I had. And

she ended up putting out her arms and hugging me

and calming down, like she was regulating her own body because she was

regulating off me. Now, if I wasn't regulated in that

moment, it just would have kept escalating. Now, but here's that— is that— that's

not the takeaway of the story. I'm going to tell you the takeaway of the

story in a second. Helped to just

regulate, helped to get a little calmer back in her body. We went

outside, climbed some stuff. It's really good for her personality and her little

body. And she got in her body and she just, she just settled. And it

was like nothing happened, right? I stayed totally calm, totally

regulated. That's not always how I am, um, but really was present

with her. I really just got into her world and I didn't allow it to

affect me. After that,

like an hour after that, I had a session with my teacher

and I shared this experience with him. And what I shared with him was I

focused on this thought that I had for like 1 to 2 seconds,

if that. And I was, I was berating myself,

man. I was saying, I can't believe I had this thought. What a piece of

shit I am. I'm the worst parent ever. That I wouldn't

think about shaking my child or think about, you know, telling— grabbing them and telling

them to be quiet and trying to make them stop. Like, I'm just a piece

of shit. And my teacher says to me, he goes,

isn't it interesting that out of what actually happened

and the one to half a second thought you had, which you didn't

act on, and you broke a generational pattern in that moment,

all you're thinking about is the thought that you had instead of the beautiful

thing that you actually did and were? And I said, yeah,

that's me. I'm really hard on myself. And

that's why I said to you, like, the best thing that we can do is

actually be kind of compassionate with ourselves, particularly as men.

We just missed the mark on that, man, so much. I mean, I don't want

to speak for every man, but I know I do. I know so many men

in my life do as well, really hard on themselves.

Was it just the awareness of your teacher bringing that to light?

So like, what was your process of inviting in, or what has been your process

of inviting in more compassion for yourself, or what has

worked, or, um, yeah, I'll pause there.

Yeah, just coming close to the truth. So,

so sharing more, right? I'm pissed

off now, or I'm really sad, or I feel like a piece of

shit, or whatever it is that— like, not avoiding the thing that actually

is happening with me and doing my best to make it— to embrace it

with a consciousness of no problem, Not bypassing. This isn't about

spiritually, emotionally, relationally bypassing when I say, oh, no problem.

I'm not trying to pretend it's okay. But can I meet myself

with, okay, I made this choice. It wasn't the

best choice. Came from fear, came from control, came from my ego. I know the

places it comes from. I'm not a piece of

shit. I'm human. And can I love myself through

that? But the closer I come into contact with that and admit that truth

and own that

truth,,

I experience more.

Freedom. Yeah, that's helpful. Thank you. There

was one thing when you were sharing earlier, I wanted to track this. When you

were sharing, when you're in repair and you

said, I'm taking complete ownership of what happened, but I think you

said it has to be genuine ownership. Yeah, and

I really want to also touch on the codependency part that you were sharing too.

But when you're like, you know that you need and you want— parts of you

want to repair, whether it's, let's say, in your

relationship, but you're having difficulty

accessing genuine ownership, what do you.

Do? Don't access it. Don't pretend. Say it like,

I'm struggling to access it. I'm struggling to access within

myself responsibility for this thing that I've done. I want to be

stubborn. I want to keep being stubborn. I want to keep being protective. I want

to keep being in control. I want to keep being in my ego. I don't

want to take responsibility. That's the

truth. So genuinely do that, okay? And watch what— but watch what

happens. And watch what happens in the face of— if, especially if you're with someone,

whether it's your coach, your therapist, your partner, the person that you're activated by, or

the, the, the person that's saying, hey, I wish you didn't do that thing to

me, it really hurt me, or whatever they're saying, you know. Like, do it in

front of them and watch what happens, especially if you have

agreements around how you defuse each other, how you hold each other through

that. You'll get to the— what's,

what's the big deal? Like, let's just, let's just sit for this for a second.

Like, what's the big deal? It's shame, right?

That's what came up for me. I was like, shame. But yeah, yeah, and we

get shamed for our shame. That's the

problem. We get shamed— well, no problem, but we get shamed for our

shame, right? And so we avoid it like the

plague. But the more in contact you come with what's really true and what you're

feeling and experiencing, by default— and this isn't the purpose of

coming closer to this, but by default, and almost

impossible not to— is guess what happens? It diffuses

its power. And now we can just say,

yeah, I, I swore at you. I'm really sorry. Yeah, I know where it came

from. I'm really going to do my best to not keep doing

that. And I'm giving you an example right now. Now, that other person may have

some boundaries and say, hey, like, you can't talk to me like that. That's not—

I'm not, I'm not tolerating that. That's not what I'm in here for.

Well, then you have to have other conversations if you break those agreements or

if you lose control. Or, you know, how you

both tolerate— agreements are subjective and

they're very specific to that couple or to those people that are in

relationship, right? So you guys get to make the, the rules, the guidelines,

the rails, whatever you want to call it, what that looks.

Like. Is that stuff one of the first places or the early

places in a relation when things are going well and you guys are both regulated

that you would suggest a couple establishes, like, what are the

agreements in this relationship specifically around.

Conflict? I think that's fantastic. I think if any

couple— and, you know, I would, I would be revisiting this on a regular

basis, monthly, quarterly, throughout the year, whatever it is. Like,

you, you, you say, hey, this is how I—

you, from what I know— and please feel free, because you're a mirror in my

life, tell me how, what you see as well— but What I know about myself

is that when, when we do conflict, this is what I use. This is my

go-to strategy or pattern. I stonewall or I shut down or I get

very defensive or I get very aggressive or whatever it is, right? Or I

start picking out what you're doing or I can't listen and I'm just— whatever

it is, that's the pattern I get in. The pattern that I

see you getting in is A, B, and C. And you both share that experience

with each other, not in a charged way, just in an observational

way. Hey, I'm pretty sure it comes from A, B, and C. Like when I

experienced this when I was 7 years old and 8 years old and 9 years

old, or this is a dynamic that I grew up in my family. And again,

you're not excusing behavior, you're just, you're giving insight so people can

actually be compassionate and go, oh wow,

like I can see your 7-year-old boy really hurt. And when you're

like this now at 40 years of age, it's not really you at 40, it's

your 7-year-old boy. You're time traveling because that's what we do. We're just big—

we're adults, we're just little kids walking around in adult bodies,

man. Like, that's the fact. That's facts for most of

us, especially when we're put to our edge and we're in conflict. Our nervous system

regresses to a time when the, the affliction of

that was first experienced, or the essence of that thing

that we're experiencing now at 35 years of age or 45 years of age was

first experienced. It's amplified by that. It's usually unresolved

and unprocessed, usually. So the root of

it is regressed. So you make those

agreements, you say, hey, like when we both see— because most trauma is complementary as

well, like it bonds and blends. And so you say, well,

when we're in this kind of conflict, why don't we do A, B, and

C? Now, luckily for you and for me and for all of us,

there are institutes and

teachers and places that have been studying this for a long time. Take the Gottman

Institute, for example. 40-plus years studying relationships, right?

A lot of longitudinal studies there. One of the things that they suggest

to do when it comes to conflict that works very

well for everybody— I'm going to paraphrase a little bit here, but you can look

this up in Gottman Institute— is, again,

because it is also dependent on the individual, like you have a very strong avoidant

attachment style or, um,

uh, insecure anxious attachment style or Do you

have like— you disorganize? And I'm just using attachment styles as one example. There are

so many other personality patterns, um, love

languages, individual wounding and trauma, um, value sets. There's so many other

factors that impact this. However, what can be generally helpful is if

you are in conflict— in other words, you have an opinion, your partner has

an opinion, and you're both not budging, and all that seems to be

happening is escalation— pause.

Take 30, 40 minutes, go for a walk, move your body, read

a magazine or a book, or even watch something on TV, like

a documentary, just something that sort of like just diffuses you.

Don't ruminate on the conflict, don't journal to it even, just have

some space. That's part of your agreements. Then come back together once your nervous

system is a little more regulated and you feel more resourced and

observe if you can come to that conversation from a different

angle. Right, that's one helpful thing that you could do. There are many other things

that you can do, knowing each other. So this is the thing, like when you

know yourself really well and you, you're doing inner work

on yourself, you're exploring the inner sanctum of your being,

you prioritize growth for yourself, for the relationship, for

each other, you tend to know each other better. So you know, and each other

better, and itself better, and you know how to be. So you know what

a healthier conflict resolution or conflict

engagement looks like. It's not a matter of is conflict— you're not trying to avoid

conflict. It's going to happen. It's inevitable. Great. It's actually good, not a bad

thing. It's how you do conflict. And so if you have agreements around

that based on how you know self and each other, that's a really healthy

thing. But let's just go full circle for a second back to repair. Like if

you experience genuine repair as a kid, you know that

conflict resolution is actually possible. You believe it, you know it, it's a

fact. So you bring that into adulthood. You're like, I don't need to run away

from this. Oh, I can actually listen to myself. Oh, I can seek to

understand you. I can actually have a voice to be

heard. You're not attuned to that. You're attuned

to that. That's just the norm for you. So conflict's going to

be easier. Another thing, a great example of why repair is

so important at a young age, experiencing that as a.

Kid. I think that is— I mean, there's so many obviously

like skills, but there has been, you know, I actually

think I was, I was reading, uh, one of Connor Beaton's posts and I think

he was— I don't quote me, but I think he was referencing the Gottman

Institute or whatever it is, but I could be mistaken. But he was— there was

a stat on there that I won't forget. It was like 93% of marriages that

end up in divorce, like they traced it back

to whatever it was, challenges around conflict. And I've really

felt that to be so true. But really what's landing with what you're saying

is, you know, as kids, obviously we learn through modeling— what we see, what we

hear, what we feel, what we intuit. And with what you're saying, it's like

it becomes as possible as anything

else, maybe as possible of like, I can learn to ride a

bike, I could learn to, um, whatever, play

by myself, and that's okay too. I can It's like, holy shit.

Like, that, that for a moment, I just want to like take a moment. Like,

that is

profound. If a child can really

learn to understand, like, it's

okay, something's not terribly wrong.

I like that right there, man. And it's been in

my awareness, and this conversation is just

like really putting the spotlight

on even more of an inspiration

around that, even more of like, fuck,

like, that's— if I have one big role that I really

would love to continue developing myself and also impart on my

son, it is very much

that. Um, yeah, people are safe. I

think people are safe. Yeah, repair is possible. Like, how

many people move around the world unconsciously hypervigilant, not

trusting people? And at the root of that, not

the only thing, but at the root of that

is people just always hurt me and not take accountability. Because, you know,

we move in absolutes, especially when we're younger. And if we didn't have enough

experiences of that, it's all we think we know, right? And so it's like, oh,

people are just unsafe, full stop. No one's willing to

repair. No one's willing to take accountability. I'm

alone. It's, it's always me, or always my fault.

But that, that, those unconscious

beliefs drive so much of how people are in the.

World. Yeah, beautiful, man. Well, one thing

I'd love to make sure we touch on, because I know, I imagine, I know

repair is something that you cover in your book, Can you share

with— Yeah, for sure. So I'm curious, like, what inspired

the book? And I'd love to give you a few minutes to really unpack someone

who's interested in getting the book, learning more,

developing themselves in the discussion that we're having and so much more. Like, what can

they get from the book? And we'll go from there.

Yeah, thanks, man. So you can get the book at tunedinandturnedonbook.com

and there's a stack of bonuses, really cool bonuses there. Are still

available. And by the way, tuned in and turned on book.com. You can get it

through Amazon, you can get it through Barnes Noble, you get it through any

major retailers. You— there's instructions there, click the link, it's super simple, right? We just

take you automatically and then you'll get your bonuses. There's a

process for that. And it's Audible as well. It's— I've recorded

the book. It's in Audible, available in Audible and

hardcover and paperback. So essentially, man, yeah, the book—

I mean, a lot of what we spoke to today is in the book and

unpack it in far more you know, deeper

way because there's just more time and space to do so. But, you know, really

there are three, three major parts of the book,

right? Understanding self, knowing how you function as an adult is

really a byproduct of what you experience as a kid. And how do we make

that whole? How do we go around a process of making that whole? It's very—

this book has a stack of experiences in it, tools, embodiment

practices and so forth in every chapter. And that's a really important part of

it. It helps you understand that, that, that part. Then when you do that, that

sort of base level inner work, and you build on that, it sets you up

for what the second part of the book goes into, which is really healthy

relationships, healthy intimacy. And why is that important? And the book

unpacks why that's important. It also shares with us how to,

how to develop really quality, healthy relationships and break free

from the trauma, the restrictions, the limitations of the past,

which then moves you into the sort of third part of the book, which

is healthy relationships are

a fast-track path to God, and they are a

catalyst to living a very

expanded, growth-oriented, mystical life. Um, but we

can never really be truly ready for relationships without doing that inner work

and really connecting to the, the root pain that we

experience as adults. And so that's sort of the journey. Arc of the book, just

in short. Beautiful, man. Well, I'm so excited. I know it just came out, so

I'm so excited to get it. And especially this topic,

I'm so happy we spent the majority of the time going on repair, uh,

for many reasons. And yeah, just thank you for the work you're doing, man.

I'm so pumped that you're putting this out, that you're getting it out, and,

uh, I can't wait to share it with the guys that I'm working with as

well in my audience. So, brother, thank you, man. Appreciate you

very much. Yeah, yeah, appreciate it. Can I say one more thing to the book?

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

So specifically to men, right? Everything we do in our lives,

from my perspective at least, is relational, man. And

so when we business, the big dreams that we have,

and this isn't just for men, this is for all of us as humans, the

creativity we want to express, the vision that we see for ourselves as

a person in the world, it all comes down to the quality of the relationship

we have with ourselves and the relationship we have

with others. Particularly the unconscious aspects of that. And so

when we can really step into tidying all that up so we're not hypervigilant, so

we're not mistrusting, so that we're not defensive and angry, so that we're

not engaging in these maladaptive patterns of relating, everything

in life improves. We make more money, we have better

quality relationships, we love ourselves more, we have more fun and play, we get

to experience the dreams that are just sort of in the ether, we live them

in a material way. And we don't do it at

a sense of loss or emptiness, like, oh, I've created

a multi-multi-million dollar business, yet I still feel empty. On the surface, I

have an amazing wife and children and house

and toys, and— but there's still something that doesn't feel full in me.

But that's because the quality of the relationships that should be mattering

to you, they're not, they're not healed, so to speak. They're, they're

fractured. And so this book really supports.

In that. Hell yeah, buddy. Well, I love that, Steph,

and, uh, thank you for taking the time, man, to share. And,

um, I'm looking forward to being in touch, man, and seeing the impact that this

book makes. So thank you for the work you're doing and for taking time today,

big guy. Likewise, brother. Thank you. Hell yeah. Have a great day.