1 00:00:03,825 --> 00:00:06,825 Marvin: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly, 2 00:00:06,925 --> 00:00:10,085 Marvin: and we're back with another Casting Angles with Mack Brown. How you doing, Mack? 3 00:00:11,305 --> 00:00:13,025 Mac: I'm doing great. How are you doing, Marvin? 4 00:00:13,285 --> 00:00:16,785 Marvin: As always, just trying to stay out of trouble. And, you know, 5 00:00:16,805 --> 00:00:20,085 Marvin: it's kind of funny, we got spoiled, I guess, this past week, 6 00:00:20,125 --> 00:00:23,485 Marvin: had temperatures well up in the 70s. And I mean, we've got a freeze warning 7 00:00:23,485 --> 00:00:26,225 Marvin: tonight, and they're talking about 30 and 40 mile an hour wind gusts. 8 00:00:27,505 --> 00:00:31,985 Mac: That's what we had we had a lot of wind today on the river and and yeah it's 9 00:00:31,985 --> 00:00:36,985 Mac: a lot colder yeah at least it makes it feel a lot colder yesterday i think we 10 00:00:36,985 --> 00:00:39,745 Mac: were 72 i think today it was 42, 11 00:00:40,525 --> 00:00:45,685 Mac: with 30 mile an hour winds floating we got about blown back to webster from 12 00:00:45,685 --> 00:00:49,365 Mac: bryson city so yeah it's brutal when it's that kind of wind all day in a boat 13 00:00:49,365 --> 00:00:51,925 Mac: i got a little bit of wind burn yeah Yeah. 14 00:00:52,125 --> 00:00:54,885 Marvin: You know, the interesting thing is we're kind of like, as we ease and we're 15 00:00:54,885 --> 00:00:58,985 Marvin: almost officially to spring is that, you know, the conditions bounce all over the place. 16 00:00:59,085 --> 00:01:03,325 Marvin: And so one of the big takeaways is I think you have to be a little bit more 17 00:01:03,325 --> 00:01:04,545 Marvin: nimble as an angler, right. 18 00:01:04,605 --> 00:01:08,145 Marvin: To really focus on taking what the river gives you. Cause you can't go out with 19 00:01:08,145 --> 00:01:09,945 Marvin: a mindset that you want to do one thing. 20 00:01:09,965 --> 00:01:13,345 Marvin: And if the river is not willing to give it to you, you're gonna have a really bummer day. Right. 21 00:01:14,565 --> 00:01:19,525 Mac: Oh yeah yeah we saw that in webster and we just wrapped up a school yesterday 22 00:01:19,525 --> 00:01:23,505 Mac: and um yeah it was real obvious you see a lot of boats there was a lot of boat 23 00:01:23,505 --> 00:01:25,665 Mac: traffic up the day we went to webster, 24 00:01:26,385 --> 00:01:31,205 Mac: and it's kind of funny and some of them are banging the big five inch streamers 25 00:01:31,205 --> 00:01:35,705 Mac: to the bank and hoping for the best and others are golf ball size indicators 26 00:01:35,705 --> 00:01:40,845 Mac: doing the same thing the whole float it's just funny how many i mean you get 27 00:01:40,845 --> 00:01:44,045 Mac: just the right thing it's like we did a wet fly game, 28 00:01:44,765 --> 00:01:50,845 Mac: for the um students in the school it was every cast for 30 minutes every cast 29 00:01:50,845 --> 00:01:54,285 Mac: boom fish fish fish and then you watch all these people float by till they're 30 00:01:54,285 --> 00:01:55,585 Mac: out of sight and they got a certain, 31 00:01:56,165 --> 00:01:59,405 Mac: i think that's what happens i mean people have preconceived notions and once 32 00:01:59,405 --> 00:02:02,145 Mac: you're on the right thing you stay with it till it quits work and then you get 33 00:02:02,145 --> 00:02:06,865 Mac: to go figure it out again but But I think a lot of people try to force things this time of year. 34 00:02:07,245 --> 00:02:10,985 Mac: Yeah, there's a lot of fish in the DH, but when they show up and try to force 35 00:02:10,985 --> 00:02:15,645 Mac: their technique, with that, as you said, being nimble, I think that can definitely 36 00:02:15,645 --> 00:02:17,145 Mac: backfire on people real quick. 37 00:02:18,765 --> 00:02:21,445 Marvin: Yeah, because, you know, we look at colder water temperatures, 38 00:02:21,505 --> 00:02:24,705 Marvin: and you and I were talking, it's like if you walk out and you don't see fish 39 00:02:24,705 --> 00:02:27,985 Marvin: rising and there are no birds, right, and you don't see any insects, 40 00:02:28,045 --> 00:02:32,485 Marvin: you probably may want to skip the dry fly, dry dropper action for a while. 41 00:02:34,529 --> 00:02:37,509 Mac: That's right. I mean, yeah, and it's tricky. 42 00:02:37,769 --> 00:02:44,549 Mac: Like today we had an epic Granum and Hendrickson hatch, but you got fish that are relatively new. 43 00:02:44,649 --> 00:02:47,289 Mac: I'm not sure when, because I hadn't even looked at it. I don't look at it. 44 00:02:47,309 --> 00:02:51,249 Mac: I just know, you know, the DH, they're back in March, April, May. 45 00:02:52,169 --> 00:02:58,269 Mac: As far as adding to the replenishing what's in there, and it's like you got 46 00:02:58,269 --> 00:03:01,989 Mac: fish like today with literally thousands of dries on the water that totally 47 00:03:01,989 --> 00:03:04,289 Mac: got ignored. So go figure. 48 00:03:04,529 --> 00:03:09,109 Mac: I mean, it's a cold front. Yeah, there's serious clouds and wind blew. 49 00:03:09,509 --> 00:03:13,009 Mac: But literally to have that many bugs and realize nothing's coming up and even 50 00:03:13,009 --> 00:03:17,329 Mac: looking at them, I wonder if you were somewhere where those had been there. 51 00:03:18,249 --> 00:03:22,449 Mac: You know, they probably would have responded, wouldn't they, if they were there. 52 00:03:23,269 --> 00:03:25,309 Mac: Born and raised there, I'm saying they'd know what that meant. 53 00:03:25,389 --> 00:03:27,649 Mac: But here's a dinner bell going off and they totally got ignored. 54 00:03:27,829 --> 00:03:31,209 Mac: So I guess because the Hendrickson doesn't look like a pellet, you see. 55 00:03:32,749 --> 00:03:35,609 Mac: So it takes them a while. Sometimes it takes them longer, you know. 56 00:03:35,769 --> 00:03:39,189 Mac: This year, it seems like it's taken them longer to figure out, hey, that's dinner. 57 00:03:40,429 --> 00:03:43,509 Mac: And the swallows were there. Like you said, I mean, we had a lot of swallows. 58 00:03:44,249 --> 00:03:46,949 Mac: I was like, yeah, there's a hatch. And we started looking at the water, 59 00:03:47,009 --> 00:03:49,389 Mac: and you could see all the insects in the phone line. 60 00:03:50,449 --> 00:03:53,489 Mac: But, yeah, the fish really didn't know what that was. 61 00:03:54,549 --> 00:03:57,549 Mac: Yeah, people get away with a lot of things. It wasn't their first put in, 62 00:03:57,629 --> 00:04:03,109 Mac: but you've still got to be working a system. system, you know, 63 00:04:03,109 --> 00:04:06,149 Mac: work in a system, like try something, doesn't work, change, doesn't work, 64 00:04:06,229 --> 00:04:08,549 Mac: change. I mean, change until you figure out what it is. 65 00:04:08,749 --> 00:04:12,049 Mac: And I think that's, what's real common, like this time of year, 66 00:04:12,089 --> 00:04:15,929 Mac: when you see boats, that was the theme of the whole week with the school is 67 00:04:15,929 --> 00:04:19,289 Mac: just telling them, look, here's your process and going through the process where 68 00:04:19,289 --> 00:04:23,089 Mac: they've got a process, you know, to figure out what it is. 69 00:04:23,149 --> 00:04:25,629 Mac: And then they get a big smile once they figure it out on their own. 70 00:04:25,689 --> 00:04:26,829 Mac: And that's the way it's supposed to be. 71 00:04:28,049 --> 00:04:31,429 Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting. You know, I always think this time of the year, 72 00:04:31,509 --> 00:04:34,829 Marvin: unless you see something that tells you to do something different, 73 00:04:34,889 --> 00:04:38,169 Marvin: you start at the bottom and work your way up the water column and try to figure 74 00:04:38,169 --> 00:04:39,509 Marvin: out where they are and what they're eating. 75 00:04:39,869 --> 00:04:43,509 Marvin: I imagine that's probably why the wet flies were so successful for you because 76 00:04:43,509 --> 00:04:48,829 Marvin: the fish were active and eating mid-column and you were able to pick them up there. 77 00:04:50,616 --> 00:04:55,516 Mac: Yeah, yeah, that was a good, that was actually the most productive thing that 78 00:04:55,516 --> 00:04:58,336 Mac: we did during the whole week. 79 00:04:58,436 --> 00:05:01,196 Mac: I mean, the wet fly game ended to work pretty good the whole week. 80 00:05:01,276 --> 00:05:03,676 Mac: So, and even today, that's what I did. 81 00:05:03,736 --> 00:05:09,916 Mac: I have a, I have a guy here from Connecticut for five days and we did a little bit different. 82 00:05:09,916 --> 00:05:13,896 Mac: We fished real similar to Davey's technique, 83 00:05:14,036 --> 00:05:19,956 Mac: like a muddler daddy up top with an unweighted wet in the middle and just have 84 00:05:19,956 --> 00:05:25,096 Mac: a little bit of just a brass bead on the bottom fly, a little small brass bead on a 14-size hook, 85 00:05:25,276 --> 00:05:28,136 Mac: and just by enticing them. 86 00:05:28,676 --> 00:05:32,416 Mac: It was pretty funny when the guy got the hang of it. I showed him one cast of 87 00:05:32,416 --> 00:05:36,636 Mac: how to move the rod tip back and forth as he's bringing the top fly to make 88 00:05:36,636 --> 00:05:38,016 Mac: it undulate on the surface. 89 00:05:39,916 --> 00:05:43,456 Mac: Had a rainbow come up and he missed the drive, that 21-inch rainbow today. 90 00:05:43,656 --> 00:05:45,256 Mac: So it was pretty, then he got really excited. 91 00:05:45,816 --> 00:05:49,136 Mac: You know, then he did it again in the same spot, same rainbow came up. 92 00:05:49,696 --> 00:05:55,696 Mac: And he tried to get the dry fly again, but he got excited and yanked them all 93 00:05:55,696 --> 00:05:57,416 Mac: away. And I said, no, remember what happens. 94 00:05:58,116 --> 00:06:01,296 Mac: When that happens, you bring the dropper up to the surface next, you know. 95 00:06:01,696 --> 00:06:04,556 Mac: But he got excited and set the hook, even though the fish never ate it. 96 00:06:04,636 --> 00:06:06,856 Mac: So a little bit tricky. Tricky. 97 00:06:07,596 --> 00:06:10,956 Mac: A little bit tricky because people get excited, you know, when they see something 98 00:06:10,956 --> 00:06:13,616 Mac: close to it, they get excited thinking he might get it. 99 00:06:15,956 --> 00:06:17,516 Mac: But, yeah, that was fun. 100 00:06:18,056 --> 00:06:20,836 Marvin: Yeah, I mean, the good news is, right, you know, the longer the fish are in 101 00:06:20,836 --> 00:06:24,056 Marvin: the system as it warms up, things are going to start to stabilize out. 102 00:06:24,236 --> 00:06:28,436 Marvin: So it'll start to be a little bit easier, you know, for people to dial things 103 00:06:28,436 --> 00:06:32,916 Marvin: in because the fish will more likely be doing what you would expect them to 104 00:06:32,916 --> 00:06:34,736 Marvin: do. But you still need to have a process, right? 105 00:06:34,736 --> 00:06:39,216 Mac: Eight oh yeah yeah because it's going to move around it's going to move around 106 00:06:39,216 --> 00:06:44,616 Mac: from from the bottom to the top and on you know more overcast days maybe from 107 00:06:44,616 --> 00:06:49,856 Mac: the top to the middle um it's you know it's just it's it's fun figuring that 108 00:06:49,856 --> 00:06:51,916 Mac: part out that's really the whole fun part about it, 109 00:06:53,604 --> 00:06:57,804 Mac: Yeah, doing the process, and when it's working good and it stops working, 110 00:06:58,844 --> 00:07:02,264 Mac: that's the part I like the most is get to go back through and work it again. 111 00:07:04,264 --> 00:07:07,404 Mac: That's the fun part is the process to go back and figure it out. 112 00:07:07,864 --> 00:07:11,224 Marvin: Yeah, and then, of course, the really fun part of the process is you're officially 113 00:07:11,224 --> 00:07:15,444 Marvin: done with show season for 2024 because you just got back from being in Michigan last weekend. 114 00:07:16,844 --> 00:07:19,964 Mac: Oh, yeah, that was a lot of fun. That was a really fun show, 115 00:07:20,104 --> 00:07:26,444 Mac: and I love how they kick that off every year. I've got the Pied Piper's name 116 00:07:26,444 --> 00:07:28,944 Mac: and email and all that, but I really like that. 117 00:07:28,964 --> 00:07:32,804 Mac: They have him do that every year and play the pipes, kick off the show each day. 118 00:07:34,024 --> 00:07:38,624 Mac: And so I had a fun time talking with him about where he learned to get into 119 00:07:38,624 --> 00:07:40,044 Mac: playing bagpipes and all that. 120 00:07:40,244 --> 00:07:45,164 Mac: And we used to go to the Highland Games always in Boone as a kid for Grandfather Mountain, you know. 121 00:07:46,724 --> 00:07:50,204 Mac: And that was always fun going up there, seeing all the clans come from all over 122 00:07:50,204 --> 00:07:54,144 Mac: the world, watching them throw the caber toss and all that so yeah there was 123 00:07:54,144 --> 00:07:55,164 Mac: a really good attentive crowd, 124 00:07:55,984 --> 00:08:02,024 Mac: up there in michigan the demos and seminars went really well and it was fun 125 00:08:02,024 --> 00:08:06,484 Mac: it was fun to see everybody up there but i'm kind of glad we're done till next 126 00:08:06,484 --> 00:08:08,184 Mac: year i don't have to do any, 127 00:08:09,164 --> 00:08:13,244 Mac: any more of them till sometime in 25 yeah. 128 00:08:13,244 --> 00:08:16,024 Marvin: You know it's interesting too because i think they They have a really, 129 00:08:16,044 --> 00:08:19,284 Marvin: really unique fly fishing culture up in Michigan. 130 00:08:19,424 --> 00:08:23,764 Marvin: I mean, and it's not just trout and steelhead. I mean, there's big smallmouth, 131 00:08:23,804 --> 00:08:26,904 Marvin: you know, culture up there on the fly as well. 132 00:08:28,464 --> 00:08:34,144 Mac: Oh, yeah. There's a lot of good. They've got a fantastic Atlantic program going 133 00:08:34,144 --> 00:08:37,784 Mac: on in Michigan as well. There's just a lot of fun things you can do up there. 134 00:08:38,684 --> 00:08:42,644 Mac: It's a heck of a fishery. I mean, that's where, when I was a kid, 135 00:08:42,704 --> 00:08:46,384 Mac: we'd always go up there from the Ozarks. because my dad had a couple ants that 136 00:08:46,384 --> 00:08:47,624 Mac: lived right on Lake Michigan. 137 00:08:48,384 --> 00:08:52,124 Mac: So we'd go up there and we'd fish. My granddad would go up there with us and 138 00:08:52,124 --> 00:08:56,164 Mac: we'd go up to the UP. I remember going up there a lot as a kid. 139 00:08:56,964 --> 00:09:01,924 Mac: And I hadn't been in. I missed about 15, 20 years of being up there. 140 00:09:02,084 --> 00:09:06,504 Mac: I'm going to definitely keep it on the radar every year to make a point to get 141 00:09:06,504 --> 00:09:12,584 Mac: back up there because I think it's a wonderful state for everything about fishing. fishing. 142 00:09:13,264 --> 00:09:19,424 Mac: So yeah, it's got a lot more opportunity to get on a river and kind of get away 143 00:09:19,424 --> 00:09:20,784 Mac: from people up there, I think, too. 144 00:09:22,563 --> 00:09:27,763 Mac: Up in the UP, you can get on things and disappear and not see anybody, which is kind of fun. 145 00:09:28,643 --> 00:09:32,763 Marvin: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, as we sort of, you're back at your home base, 146 00:09:32,863 --> 00:09:36,323 Marvin: that means kind of two things for you, right? It means schools and it means guiding. 147 00:09:36,423 --> 00:09:41,123 Marvin: So you want to kind of give folks an update on your schools and also where they 148 00:09:41,123 --> 00:09:44,303 Marvin: can find you. So if they want to book you and float down the river with you, they can do that too? 149 00:09:45,443 --> 00:09:51,583 Mac: Yeah, that'd be good. The fly fishing schools are on the flyfishingguideschool.com page. 150 00:09:51,763 --> 00:09:55,203 Mac: We're still going to have April, May, June, October, November. 151 00:09:55,603 --> 00:09:58,703 Mac: And those are going well. 152 00:09:58,883 --> 00:10:02,063 Mac: And I guess the way to get a hold of me for the other, I mean, 153 00:10:02,083 --> 00:10:04,303 Mac: you can message too on like social media stuff. 154 00:10:04,463 --> 00:10:09,063 Mac: But macgroundflyfish.com is where all the info is for like outfitter stuff. 155 00:10:09,063 --> 00:10:12,123 Mac: Stuff and um that's that's 156 00:10:12,123 --> 00:10:15,723 Mac: the easiest place to get information on on doing 157 00:10:15,723 --> 00:10:18,343 Mac: it online you know like just to go online and do it 158 00:10:18,343 --> 00:10:22,123 Mac: and this time of year it's also you get the time of year where lots of people 159 00:10:22,123 --> 00:10:27,183 Mac: are planning their spring trips and it's like today it's funny because you get 160 00:10:27,183 --> 00:10:30,843 Mac: calls from people are like we're coming we're gonna be there in june you get 161 00:10:30,843 --> 00:10:35,003 Mac: off the river calling back we decided we're going to a whole other state it's 162 00:10:35,003 --> 00:10:37,383 Mac: just like i'm glad i didn't answer those calls. 163 00:10:37,483 --> 00:10:40,983 Mac: But it's just funny. People don't even know, I think, a lot of times when they 164 00:10:40,983 --> 00:10:42,663 Mac: call, they're like, we might go to the Smokies. 165 00:10:43,083 --> 00:10:47,143 Mac: And it's like, it's probably a good thing to screen on a voicemail like that. 166 00:10:47,503 --> 00:10:50,523 Mac: Because it's kind of funny. I'm like, oh my gosh, two hours later, 167 00:10:50,623 --> 00:10:52,283 Mac: now you're not even going to a whole different state. 168 00:10:53,163 --> 00:10:57,243 Mac: But it's just funny. I'm glad I get those things taken care of before you. 169 00:10:57,503 --> 00:11:00,883 Mac: Because I text them back, yeah, you want to talk about this? 170 00:11:00,943 --> 00:11:03,323 Mac: No, we're going to Wyoming now. Oh, great. 171 00:11:04,583 --> 00:11:07,283 Mac: But yeah, Yeah, that's kind of funny. 172 00:11:07,503 --> 00:11:11,623 Marvin: Yeah. Well, you know, folks, when we get on the other side of this little cold 173 00:11:11,623 --> 00:11:16,283 Marvin: front that's passing through here in the southeast, it'll be a great time to get out on the water. 174 00:11:16,363 --> 00:11:19,623 Marvin: We got plenty of water in our part of the world, which, you know, 175 00:11:19,623 --> 00:11:23,583 Marvin: has not been the case the last few years. And you owe it to yourself to get 176 00:11:23,583 --> 00:11:24,503 Marvin: out there and catch a few. 177 00:11:25,063 --> 00:11:27,183 Marvin: Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Matt. 178 00:11:28,243 --> 00:11:29,183 Mac: Tight lines, Marvin.