Marvin: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly,

Marvin: and we're back with another Casting Angles with Mack Brown. How you doing, Mack?

Mac: I'm doing great. How are you doing, Marvin?

Marvin: As always, just trying to stay out of trouble. And, you know,

Marvin: it's kind of funny, we got spoiled, I guess, this past week,

Marvin: had temperatures well up in the 70s. And I mean, we've got a freeze warning

Marvin: tonight, and they're talking about 30 and 40 mile an hour wind gusts.

Mac: That's what we had we had a lot of wind today on the river and and yeah it's

Mac: a lot colder yeah at least it makes it feel a lot colder yesterday i think we

Mac: were 72 i think today it was 42,

Mac: with 30 mile an hour winds floating we got about blown back to webster from

Mac: bryson city so yeah it's brutal when it's that kind of wind all day in a boat

Mac: i got a little bit of wind burn yeah Yeah.

Marvin: You know, the interesting thing is we're kind of like, as we ease and we're

Marvin: almost officially to spring is that, you know, the conditions bounce all over the place.

Marvin: And so one of the big takeaways is I think you have to be a little bit more

Marvin: nimble as an angler, right.

Marvin: To really focus on taking what the river gives you. Cause you can't go out with

Marvin: a mindset that you want to do one thing.

Marvin: And if the river is not willing to give it to you, you're gonna have a really bummer day. Right.

Mac: Oh yeah yeah we saw that in webster and we just wrapped up a school yesterday

Mac: and um yeah it was real obvious you see a lot of boats there was a lot of boat

Mac: traffic up the day we went to webster,

Mac: and it's kind of funny and some of them are banging the big five inch streamers

Mac: to the bank and hoping for the best and others are golf ball size indicators

Mac: doing the same thing the whole float it's just funny how many i mean you get

Mac: just the right thing it's like we did a wet fly game,

Mac: for the um students in the school it was every cast for 30 minutes every cast

Mac: boom fish fish fish and then you watch all these people float by till they're

Mac: out of sight and they got a certain,

Mac: i think that's what happens i mean people have preconceived notions and once

Mac: you're on the right thing you stay with it till it quits work and then you get

Mac: to go figure it out again but But I think a lot of people try to force things this time of year.

Mac: Yeah, there's a lot of fish in the DH, but when they show up and try to force

Mac: their technique, with that, as you said, being nimble, I think that can definitely

Mac: backfire on people real quick.

Marvin: Yeah, because, you know, we look at colder water temperatures,

Marvin: and you and I were talking, it's like if you walk out and you don't see fish

Marvin: rising and there are no birds, right, and you don't see any insects,

Marvin: you probably may want to skip the dry fly, dry dropper action for a while.

Mac: That's right. I mean, yeah, and it's tricky.

Mac: Like today we had an epic Granum and Hendrickson hatch, but you got fish that are relatively new.

Mac: I'm not sure when, because I hadn't even looked at it. I don't look at it.

Mac: I just know, you know, the DH, they're back in March, April, May.

Mac: As far as adding to the replenishing what's in there, and it's like you got

Mac: fish like today with literally thousands of dries on the water that totally

Mac: got ignored. So go figure.

Mac: I mean, it's a cold front. Yeah, there's serious clouds and wind blew.

Mac: But literally to have that many bugs and realize nothing's coming up and even

Mac: looking at them, I wonder if you were somewhere where those had been there.

Mac: You know, they probably would have responded, wouldn't they, if they were there.

Mac: Born and raised there, I'm saying they'd know what that meant.

Mac: But here's a dinner bell going off and they totally got ignored.

Mac: So I guess because the Hendrickson doesn't look like a pellet, you see.

Mac: So it takes them a while. Sometimes it takes them longer, you know.

Mac: This year, it seems like it's taken them longer to figure out, hey, that's dinner.

Mac: And the swallows were there. Like you said, I mean, we had a lot of swallows.

Mac: I was like, yeah, there's a hatch. And we started looking at the water,

Mac: and you could see all the insects in the phone line.

Mac: But, yeah, the fish really didn't know what that was.

Mac: Yeah, people get away with a lot of things. It wasn't their first put in,

Mac: but you've still got to be working a system. system, you know,

Mac: work in a system, like try something, doesn't work, change, doesn't work,

Mac: change. I mean, change until you figure out what it is.

Mac: And I think that's, what's real common, like this time of year,

Mac: when you see boats, that was the theme of the whole week with the school is

Mac: just telling them, look, here's your process and going through the process where

Mac: they've got a process, you know, to figure out what it is.

Mac: And then they get a big smile once they figure it out on their own.

Mac: And that's the way it's supposed to be.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting. You know, I always think this time of the year,

Marvin: unless you see something that tells you to do something different,

Marvin: you start at the bottom and work your way up the water column and try to figure

Marvin: out where they are and what they're eating.

Marvin: I imagine that's probably why the wet flies were so successful for you because

Marvin: the fish were active and eating mid-column and you were able to pick them up there.

Mac: Yeah, yeah, that was a good, that was actually the most productive thing that

Mac: we did during the whole week.

Mac: I mean, the wet fly game ended to work pretty good the whole week.

Mac: So, and even today, that's what I did.

Mac: I have a, I have a guy here from Connecticut for five days and we did a little bit different.

Mac: We fished real similar to Davey's technique,

Mac: like a muddler daddy up top with an unweighted wet in the middle and just have

Mac: a little bit of just a brass bead on the bottom fly, a little small brass bead on a 14-size hook,

Mac: and just by enticing them.

Mac: It was pretty funny when the guy got the hang of it. I showed him one cast of

Mac: how to move the rod tip back and forth as he's bringing the top fly to make

Mac: it undulate on the surface.

Mac: Had a rainbow come up and he missed the drive, that 21-inch rainbow today.

Mac: So it was pretty, then he got really excited.

Mac: You know, then he did it again in the same spot, same rainbow came up.

Mac: And he tried to get the dry fly again, but he got excited and yanked them all

Mac: away. And I said, no, remember what happens.

Mac: When that happens, you bring the dropper up to the surface next, you know.

Mac: But he got excited and set the hook, even though the fish never ate it.

Mac: So a little bit tricky. Tricky.

Mac: A little bit tricky because people get excited, you know, when they see something

Mac: close to it, they get excited thinking he might get it.

Mac: But, yeah, that was fun.

Marvin: Yeah, I mean, the good news is, right, you know, the longer the fish are in

Marvin: the system as it warms up, things are going to start to stabilize out.

Marvin: So it'll start to be a little bit easier, you know, for people to dial things

Marvin: in because the fish will more likely be doing what you would expect them to

Marvin: do. But you still need to have a process, right?

Mac: Eight oh yeah yeah because it's going to move around it's going to move around

Mac: from from the bottom to the top and on you know more overcast days maybe from

Mac: the top to the middle um it's you know it's just it's it's fun figuring that

Mac: part out that's really the whole fun part about it,

Mac: Yeah, doing the process, and when it's working good and it stops working,

Mac: that's the part I like the most is get to go back through and work it again.

Mac: That's the fun part is the process to go back and figure it out.

Marvin: Yeah, and then, of course, the really fun part of the process is you're officially

Marvin: done with show season for 2024 because you just got back from being in Michigan last weekend.

Mac: Oh, yeah, that was a lot of fun. That was a really fun show,

Mac: and I love how they kick that off every year. I've got the Pied Piper's name

Mac: and email and all that, but I really like that.

Mac: They have him do that every year and play the pipes, kick off the show each day.

Mac: And so I had a fun time talking with him about where he learned to get into

Mac: playing bagpipes and all that.

Mac: And we used to go to the Highland Games always in Boone as a kid for Grandfather Mountain, you know.

Mac: And that was always fun going up there, seeing all the clans come from all over

Mac: the world, watching them throw the caber toss and all that so yeah there was

Mac: a really good attentive crowd,

Mac: up there in michigan the demos and seminars went really well and it was fun

Mac: it was fun to see everybody up there but i'm kind of glad we're done till next

Mac: year i don't have to do any,

Mac: any more of them till sometime in 25 yeah.

Marvin: You know it's interesting too because i think they They have a really,

Marvin: really unique fly fishing culture up in Michigan.

Marvin: I mean, and it's not just trout and steelhead. I mean, there's big smallmouth,

Marvin: you know, culture up there on the fly as well.

Mac: Oh, yeah. There's a lot of good. They've got a fantastic Atlantic program going

Mac: on in Michigan as well. There's just a lot of fun things you can do up there.

Mac: It's a heck of a fishery. I mean, that's where, when I was a kid,

Mac: we'd always go up there from the Ozarks. because my dad had a couple ants that

Mac: lived right on Lake Michigan.

Mac: So we'd go up there and we'd fish. My granddad would go up there with us and

Mac: we'd go up to the UP. I remember going up there a lot as a kid.

Mac: And I hadn't been in. I missed about 15, 20 years of being up there.

Mac: I'm going to definitely keep it on the radar every year to make a point to get

Mac: back up there because I think it's a wonderful state for everything about fishing. fishing.

Mac: So yeah, it's got a lot more opportunity to get on a river and kind of get away

Mac: from people up there, I think, too.

Mac: Up in the UP, you can get on things and disappear and not see anybody, which is kind of fun.

Marvin: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, as we sort of, you're back at your home base,

Marvin: that means kind of two things for you, right? It means schools and it means guiding.

Marvin: So you want to kind of give folks an update on your schools and also where they

Marvin: can find you. So if they want to book you and float down the river with you, they can do that too?

Mac: Yeah, that'd be good. The fly fishing schools are on the flyfishingguideschool.com page.

Mac: We're still going to have April, May, June, October, November.

Mac: And those are going well.

Mac: And I guess the way to get a hold of me for the other, I mean,

Mac: you can message too on like social media stuff.

Mac: But macgroundflyfish.com is where all the info is for like outfitter stuff.

Mac: Stuff and um that's that's

Mac: the easiest place to get information on on doing

Mac: it online you know like just to go online and do it

Mac: and this time of year it's also you get the time of year where lots of people

Mac: are planning their spring trips and it's like today it's funny because you get

Mac: calls from people are like we're coming we're gonna be there in june you get

Mac: off the river calling back we decided we're going to a whole other state it's

Mac: just like i'm glad i didn't answer those calls.

Mac: But it's just funny. People don't even know, I think, a lot of times when they

Mac: call, they're like, we might go to the Smokies.

Mac: And it's like, it's probably a good thing to screen on a voicemail like that.

Mac: Because it's kind of funny. I'm like, oh my gosh, two hours later,

Mac: now you're not even going to a whole different state.

Mac: But it's just funny. I'm glad I get those things taken care of before you.

Mac: Because I text them back, yeah, you want to talk about this?

Mac: No, we're going to Wyoming now. Oh, great.

Mac: But yeah, Yeah, that's kind of funny.

Marvin: Yeah. Well, you know, folks, when we get on the other side of this little cold

Marvin: front that's passing through here in the southeast, it'll be a great time to get out on the water.

Marvin: We got plenty of water in our part of the world, which, you know,

Marvin: has not been the case the last few years. And you owe it to yourself to get

Marvin: out there and catch a few.

Marvin: Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Matt.

Mac: Tight lines, Marvin.