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Tiffany Sardin is in her first season as the women's basketball head coach at Presbyterian College.

She was previously the Associate head coach at St.

Louis University where she helped the Billikens win the Atlantic 10 Conference tournament championship and earn a bid to the NCAA Tournament.

Prior to her one season at St.

Louis, Sardin was the head coach at Chicago State, where the 20212022 team match their total number of victories from the previous four years combined.

As an assistant coach, she has spent time at Longwood, Boston University, Clemson, Illinois, Chicago and Mount Olive.

Sardin's stellar playing career at the University of Virginia spanned from 2002 to 2006 where she was a three time team captain.

She helped lead the Cavaliers to consecutive 20 win campaigns as an upperclassman.

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Please take some notes as you Listen to this episode with Tiffany Sardin, women's basketball head coach at Presbyterian College.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Pets podcast.

It's Mike Clensing here without my co host, Jason Suckel tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Tiffany Sardin, head women's basketball coach at Presbyterian College.

Tiffany, welcome to the hoopet spot.

Yeah.

Hey, Mike, thank you for having me.

I'm happy to be here for sure.

Thrilled to have you on.

Looking forward to diving into all of the things that you've been able to do throughout your basketball journey.

Let's start by going back in time to when you were a kid.

Tell me a little bit about how you got introduced to the game.

What are some of your earliest, earliest memories of basketball?

Yeah, so you know me, I'm born and raised Chicago girl.

So all I know is Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen.

Um, so grew up around, you know, just hearing all everything.

Bulls, Chicago Bulls.

But my brother, my brothers played basketball.

And how I truthfully was introduced is because I used to go with my brother to his basketball games and he was playing small fry.

It was a league that he was in.

It was only for guys at a certain height.

And, you know, I couldn't join in because it was all guys.

And I just fell in love with it.

I was watching him and I just kept going back.

Every day, every time he had a game or practice, I would go and his coach would be okay with me riding along, the only girl there.

But I would just watch and watching like, I can do this.

I knew I can do it.

And eventually it was my time and, you know, it was my turn to go ahead and give it a shot and the rest is history from there.

So my brother was the one who really introduced me to it and his small fry basketball team.

As you got into the game more, how did you go about improving, getting better?

What did you do in terms of working on your game, whether it was by yourself or playing pickup games?

And just how did you get.

How did you improve once you started taking the game more seriously?

Oh, my goodness, this is crazy.

So we used to play.

Look, in Chicago, we have alleys, right?

Like where you get a milk carton, a crate.

Truthfully, like, I know this sounds crazy or made up, but we used to nail a crate, a milk carton crate to the tree and we used to go at it.

So, like, you had to have really good aim, right?

Like you had to really get the ball, that basketball inside that cart, that crate that we drilled the hole in and out.

So the Ball can come through the, through the crate, drop straight down.

So really playing in the alley is really where it got started, truthfully for me to get my game together.

The toughness part of it, just playing with the guys, being able to, you know, you sliding across rocks and all type of stuff out there.

And then we were able to go indoor and I played, I started out playing co ed with majority of guys.

It might have been me and one other girl in our, on our elementary school, middle school team.

And it really went from there.

And I had a coach who just stayed after it with me.

You know, he come on, you can shoot extra, you can do this extra.

Everything was just all about just extra.

He seemed so invested in me getting better regardless of, you know, me being a girl.

And although it was a majority guys, but I was able to hold my own.

He felt like at a really early age.

And it went from there.

So it was just constantly like we stayed in the gym.

That's all we knew and that's all we truthfully wanted to do is either we were inside or we were outside in the alley on the crate.

So how do you look at the way that the explosion of opportunities for female players today compared to when you were a kid where obviously you're kind of fighting your way through and with your brothers and you're.

You're playing as one of the only girls in the league or on a team versus now you have just, I mean, again, you go to these giant AU terms, there's just so much more opportunity for young girls to be able to pick up the game.

How do you look at that in terms of the way you grew up in the game versus the way that the players that you're coaching grew up in the game?

It's obviously very different.

So just maybe talk a little bit about your experience versus theirs, if that makes any sense.

Yeah, no, it's.

It's actually, it's exciting to see, truthfully, because it's rewarding to see how much the game has evolved and how many, how much opportunity is available for the young women right now.

Growing up where, you know, everything was so limited, right?

Like it was select tournaments or you go to select state to play here, or select city was hosting this tournament with X amount of teams and now it's like, goodness, you can look to the left and right.

Everybody got a team now and hey, you didn't make this team, okay?

This, this dad over there is creating his own team for his daughter, you know, so it's just so many more opportunities.

I would say, but also for me, growing up, we were.

It was very competitive.

It's still competitive right now on a different level.

But it was like it was only one city championship, where now it's like multiple city champions now.

And it was one state champion.

And now, you know, it's multiple.

It's multiple everything.

So you really had to compete and be your best on every night to really get that, you know, feel that recognition of, like, your team.

Your school is absolutely the best school in the state.

You know, not only just the city, but just the state in itself.

But I think it's great the amount of opportunities that's presented to the young women today, because it's true.

It's almost like it's no excuse, right?

Like, okay, you didn't make that team, so, okay, go prove yourself on another team.

So just the amount of opportunities and the different.

The way the training has evolved and all those cool things that's happening.

Although I'm kind of old school, so just, you know, stick with the fundamentals and basics.

It's truly how I see it.

That doesn't mean I don't like the flashy stuff and all that, but that just wasn't my game.

It didn't work for me.

And I learned to see how it can work now for the young women that I'm coaching and just picking their brains on how does the moves and exciting, cool, flashy things that they do now, how we can apply it to the game within the team game and organize balls.

So.

But yeah, no, it's been good.

I mean, obviously I'm super happy to see the growth of the game.

And just again, you can't say enough about how much opportunities is out there for young women today.

No question about that.

What's your favorite memory of being a high school basketball player?

Oh, man.

So it's so many.

So I went to two different high schools, and I was fortunate to play varsity as a freshman.

And I was at the same high school with my brothers.

I started out the same high school with my brothers and my cousins.

So it was always that name we had to uphold.

So everybody knew who a sergeant was.

So it was like, oh, she's the youngest Art.

She's the girl.

She's the girl sergeant.

And so it was like, pressure in itself there.

But it was also like, okay, I can, you know, create my own, you know, identity and things as well.

But my favorite memory probably was winning the city championship and going downstate.

It was special because I played for a legendary coach.

She's the all time winningest coach, Dorothy Gators in the state of Illinois.

She's in the hall of Fame up in Tennessee and all that.

So it was really special playing for her because she truthfully was preparing all of us for what was next.

And I mean, it was on a different level.

So I would say that when the city championship and just being around folks who absolutely, you know, felt like truthfully invested in you and wanted, you know, you to go out and be your best, they weren't going to let you slack.

By no means.

I'm talking about.

It was, it was war.

You felt like it was war every day for sure.

Tell me a little bit about your eventual college recruitment.

Did you know from the time you were little that you wanted to play college basketball?

Or was that something that, as you moved along and got got closer to that becoming a reality, you started to look around, say, I'm going to have this opportunity.

Just tell me a little bit of how, how that recruitment went for you.

Yeah, so I, I did, I always thought like, okay, I can play basketball, I can go on to the next level.

Because I was around a lot of really good high school basketball players.

Kathy Poindex was one of my teammates.

Tootie Reed, Brittany Jones, like a lot of those players went on to play at the highest level and at some, you know, P5 high level schools and just watching them and playing alongside them, I knew I had what it takes because I was training with them daily and everything.

And you know, I think the circle of folks that was around me were certainly pushing me that way.

And also it was opportunity, right for me.

I knew my mom wasn't going to be able to afford for me to go to school.

I'll be staying local if that was the case.

But, you know, I knew it would be an opportunity that presented itself for me if I worked hard enough for it and which it certainly did.

But yeah, I always thought like I knew I can play at the next level.

I really did.

And I had aspiration and that's how I worked, Mike.

I worked like that every day and it was just like, I mean, eat, sleep, school basketball and then just repeat.

It was all on repeat.

Truthfully.

It was, it was like, you know, we, my mom could always find us out playing basketball somewhere and same thing with our coaches.

Like we stayed in the gym.

But yeah, I absolutely knew that, you know, I wanted to play at the highest level in college basketball and some of the schools that, you know that I was like, for me, it wasn't so much about, okay, you Know you're going to go to Tennessee and all that.

Like, my teammates, I did have teammates that was being recruited by those folks as well.

And them coming to watch my teammates, they were watching me as well.

And I received some, you know, some interest.

I remember getting.

This is so crazy.

I remember getting a written letter from UConn.

I'm like, okay, But I never knew, you know, like, oh, my God, this is the UConn, right?

That we see it as today.

I was always like, you know, I love Virginia for whatever reason.

I had a teammate who went to Virginia, but I did really love Virginia.

It was players like Skylar Rood there that I was like my game kind of similar to hers a little bit.

So just watching the game and, you know, U of I.

It was so many different schools on the table, but, you know, the.

The connection felt more genuine and pure.

It felt so right.

At choosing Virginia, going into college, did.

You have any idea of what you eventually wanted to do as a, quote, unquote, real job?

Were you thinking about coaching at all at that point?

Or were you like most 18 year olds, where you're just like, I'm playing basketball and going to school and we'll see what happens?

Like, like most college freshmen probably are.

Yeah.

So I went into school, right, like, thinking, like, I'm going to be a physical therapist.

And so they put me in those science classes and classes.

I'm like, hold on, wait.

This is just.

Okay.

I know I wanted to coach.

I always knew that because I really admired my high school coach and just what she did and how she served us on a daily.

And it was like, that, that's inspiration.

Like, I.

Like, I can do that.

I certainly had something inside of me that I always knew, like, I wanted to coach, but I also wanted to play, too.

And, you know, I wasn't so adamant on, oh, I gotta go to the wnba.

I just said, I just want to play professional.

And for me, it worked out for me having an opportunity to go and play over in Europe, which was great for me, but it was just always a new, like, okay, I want to coach.

And even when I was in Europe, I was like, you know, I was kind of setting myself up a little bit, talking to a few people, made a few connections, and coming out of college, I actually did that.

So youo Want to be a Coach program.

I'm not sure if you familiar with that, but Coach Ryan signed me up for it and I did it.

Although I knew I was going to still go and play overseas, but was able to make some connections through there.

And after I decided that, you know, hey, I might be ready to go into coaching, yeah, I got a little coaching stint, and then I'm like, no, I still got some more left in me.

I want to go back and play.

So I went and played again a couple.

Couple years.

I did maybe two years, two or three years back overseas, and then I'm like, you know, went through a few injuries, and I'm like, no, I think I'm ready to.

Ready to coach.

I'm ready to get in it and see what it's like and everything.

And goodness, it was everything I didn't think of for sure going into it, but it's been great.

It's been great for sure.

All right, before we jump into coaching, give me your craziest overseas basketball story.

What's the wildest thing that you experienced that.

That.

That you're willing to share on a podcast?

Let's put it that way.

Yes.

So I was with the club, and, you know, in Europe, Mike, they.

Everything is stick shift.

So, you know, like, they had us a car set up and everything, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I can figure this out.

Like, you know, I'm watching everybody else.

I didn't think it was going to be that hard.

Like, Mike, I went to pull off, like, they.

We got right up.

We pulled off.

Me and my teammate, we pulled off, and we going up a hill now.

Portugal got a lot of hills, and the car, like, I couldn't get it to, like, not stop drifting, so I had to hit the emergency brake.

And I'm like, I called my coach.

Like, somebody, please come.

Come and help us.

Like, we're not moving because we're going to tear this island up if I let the light let the emergency break go.

So I had to stay on emergency break, and thank God one of my teammates knew she was in the area, and somebody came and helped us, and they took the car, and I'm like, forget it.

Just give me a driver from here on out.

Like, I can't.

I don't want to do it.

It was, like, traumatizing because I just.

You couldn't tell me I wasn't about to tear that island up.

That.

That would probably be my craziest story, honestly.

Was.

Was the car situation, because I was terrified.

Like, I got it, but nah.

How that car was drifting back.

I'm like, we about to die.

Like, it's over.

It's so funny because kids today have.

So I learned how to drive a car on a stick shift, and I remember when I was learning that I would get so mad at my dad, I'm like, why can't we have a normal car like other people?

Like, why do we have to have this stupid stick shift that I'm trying?

So not only am I trying to learn how to drive, but I'm also trying to learn how to do the stick shift.

And then it's funny, the first new car I ever bought, I bought a stick shift because once I had learned on it, I really liked it.

And then when that car died, the second car I had was an automatic.

I'm like, this is boring.

Like, I want.

I want something to do with my.

You know, I would have been like this.

I don't.

I don't get it.

So, yeah, I can completely.

I can completely relate.

And then I hadn't driven a stick shift, Tiffany, probably in, like, I bet, 15 years.

And I needed a new car.

This is a couple years ago.

And so I just went and was test driving some used cars, and one of them.

One of them was a stick.

And I was like, man, this is weird.

It took me.

It took me a while to get back to the point where I could do it, especially to your point, like, trying to do it on a hill and stuff.

Done that.

It's.

It's so much harder than anybody who's never done it.

I can.

I can totally.

Let's put this way.

I can totally picture you and your teammate out on the road trying to get that thing to stay and not roll down the hill.

If you can see us, I'm about both our feet.

Like, we all feet on the gas.

Like, please let on the break.

On the break.

Like, don't let it go.

Don't let it go.

Somebody come save us or whatever.

But it was.

It was crazy.

It's certainly.

It's the thrill driving a stick.

I wish I would have learned.

I was telling my mom when it happened, I'm like, why didn't y'all ever teach me how to drive a stick first?

Like, you know, like, seemed like that's more difficult one.

But they.

Everybody, like, no, it's actually easy.

I'm like, no, no, no.

This is crazy.

So never again.

I haven't driven, gotten in the stick shift since then.

Like, you can't really fight.

You can't really find them.

It's really hard.

If you want to drive a stick shift, it's hard to find a stick shift car anymore.

They almost.

They almost don't exist at any point.

So I guess someday, who knows, maybe when I.

When I get real old, I'll be able to go and maybe find a used car and do drive a stick shift again.

But.

All right, let's jump back to your.

The start of your start of your coaching journey.

So you start out, if I'm not mistaken, coaching at the high school level.

Is that correct?

Yeah.

Yep.

I was at Williamburg High School.

Crystal Worley was the athletic director who, you know, took a chance on me, right.

Like, she knew I was living up in the area.

It happened to be in between my time of.

I have.

I was in between a break of.

Of playing overseas because I had tore my acl, actually retort.

And I happened to be in the area, rehabbing with someone and just living in the area for a little bit.

And Fran.

Fran, who's now assistant coach at Kent State, was the coach before I got to William Byrd.

So it was so crazy because she was a Virginia Tech Hokie, and then here I am, a Virginia wahoo.

So it was really crazy how it all worked out.

And, yeah, I was able to get my first taste of coaching young women.

And I mean, it was such a humbling.

Humbling experience, for sure.

What do you remember about it in terms of what hooked you that said, hey, this is something that I want to do for the rest of my life?

Because obviously, just from hearing you give that answer, there was obviously a lot of challenges, but there was obviously something about it that hooked you.

So what was it that that first experience gave you that you're like, yeah, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life?

Yeah, I would say, you know, the relationships, but also the development.

Right.

Like, the whole team that I inherited or had at the school, you know, high school, they do everything.

They were playing all sports.

But I kid you not, I might have had one basketball player who actually really cared about basketball.

Everybody else was volleyball, cross country, soccer, lacrosse.

And I mean, they.

We had, like, great size and everything, but basketball was not there first up.

So that in itself, right?

Me, you think about it.

I'm finishing up, just finished up playing, and here I am, like, still so competitive, and this is my first opportunity trying to teach some young women.

Like, you should be able to make a layup.

Like, come on, you right there at the rim.

You like, six, four and everything.

And it was.

They like, no, we don't know how to do that.

Like, pass and all.

That's all the fundamentals, you know, I had to, like, you know, really.

It humbled me, truthfully, like I said, and.

And being patient I grew.

My patience grew on a whole nother level of like, wow, like, but also it was so rewarding, right?

Because the young women that I was coaching, truthfully, I like to think that they really prepared me for where I'm at right now because, you know, again, group of young women from all different backgrounds, different sports, and again, basketball was the least for them, but also they wanted to come together to get, you know, to grow relationships, to build friendships, but also to be developed not just as, you know, basketball players, but just well rounded young women.

And I really felt the connection with that because I do stand that as something I truthfully believe in, helping young women really develop, not just on the floor, but off the floor.

And these young women were just, you know, they were sponges, too.

They were, you know, I was learning too.

Like, I didn't know a whole lot.

So they were just going with whatever I gave them, right?

And I think I kind of developed the phrase be.

Even when you feel like it ain't right, still be confident in it.

Right?

Like, you know, it'll see you through.

But no, they.

They certainly, you know, took a liking to me as well, and they helped me grow as a.

As a young coach.

And, you know, I'm hopeful that I help them grow as young women as well.

And they all seem to enjoy basketball in the end of it and had a lot of funny stories.

And still to this day, some of them shoot little crazy messages on Facebook or whatever, like, reminiscing on some funny stories.

I'm like, I don't remember that.

I don't remember doing that.

But, yeah, yeah, it is, it is.

When you look back and think about the start of your coaching career and then how far you've come as a coach, I always say to people that.

I remember my very first practice.

I was a JV boys basketball coach, and I walked into my first practice and did my first drill, and within the first five minutes, I was like, oh, my God, I just saw 500 things that they did wrong that I want to try and fix.

And how am I going to possibly fix this?

I was a kid, Tiffany, who I never really once thought about coaching.

When I was playing.

I completely thought about the game as a player.

I never really had thought about it as a coach.

And so when I became a coach, I was, I think, probably pretty arrogant, thinking that being a good player was going to make me a good coach.

And obviously we know that those two things aren't directly correlated, that you obviously have to put some time in as a coach.

To be able to.

To understand what it takes to.

To do that job well.

And.

And I just didn't understand that.

I think it's a.

It's something that all young coaches go through, I think, to some degree, right?

Because until you do it, you don't really know what it's all about or what it takes.

And to your point, I think when you look back on some of those early memories, you look back on them finally, and you also look at it and say, wow, I've come a long way from where I started.

Were you thinking at that time that high school coaching was going to be where you were going to end up?

Or did you always have designs on moving on to the college level?

Or just what was your mindset at that point as you were getting started?

Yeah, I was definitely lying to be very.

Like, I was like, absolutely not.

This is.

I know this is not the level for me because, you know, like, I was too.

Too serious.

Like, I was still so serious about it, right?

Like, I really, you know, I was still competitive.

Like, I.

I still was getting out there.

I was even practicing with them, and I'm like, you know, I wasn't talking trash to them.

That's just not the nature of my game.

But it was still, like, you know, like, the intensity for me.

It was like, I got to find a balance and, you know, tone it down, but also understanding that they're just doing this for fun, right?

Like, they are doing this to build their friendships, their relationship with their classmates.

And, you know, what if we get one or two of these young women out of the.

Out of the 30 women that's here.

We.

We.

We.

Okay.

We are okay, because guess what?

We came in and it was maybe one possible.

That was a basketball player.

So, no, I knew very quickly that, you know what?

This is going to help me grow my patience.

And if I do okay with this and I come out of here and I'm like, you know, feeling like, yes, I want to coach.

I know it has to be at the college level.

That's what I was telling myself.

And, you know, obviously talking to my college coaches, too.

Like, no, I think I'm ready to.

I think I'm ready for the next.

Next thing, right?

Like, I'm definitely ready for older groups, more serious group of young women.

Not saying that the.

The high schoolers wasn't, but just my intensity and my passion for it and how I'm like, you know, these women, like, this is what they want to do, you know?

Well, how did you go about breaking into the college ranks, and you start out at Mount Olive.

But who.

Who do you.

Who did.

You know, who did you talk to?

How do you get that opportunity?

Yeah, I'm still trying to think how I connected with Coach Lee, because Wendy Lee, who's still over there to this day, like, oh, my goodness.

She literally gave me a huge chance.

And, I mean, she knew, like, no experience, but I'm talking about somebody who just, like, throwing your point guard in the fire when they have no clue of what's going on and everything.

And she literally did that.

I'm talking about Mike, you know, at that level, you.

You, like.

I call them 10 and ones, because you might drive a van.

You got to do the laundry, you gonna do the credit card receipts.

You gonna.

At that time, we had the little recording where you gotta, you know, stop it, press it, you know, pause.

So I was doing a lot of different things, but I was, like, so excited about it.

Right?

Like, I wasn't above any of that.

I'm like, this is great, you know, because, yeah, truthfully, this was gonna help me if I want to continue to go further from here, right?

Like, the next thing was, what, going to Division 1.

But I wasn't thinking that at the time.

I'm like, I really want to be where my feet are planted, and I want to do a heck of a job for Wendy Lee, because, you know, she took a chance on me, and, you know, I'm forever grateful for that.

But it was.

It was fun.

It was a lot of fun.

And it's so crazy you bring that up, because I actually saw a few of my players that was at Mount Olive.

They came to the Davidson game, and we were laughing, reminiscing about, you know, they like, remember when it was your first time coaching and, you know, you got out there, you were busting out, you know, all this funny stuff, and I'm stopping.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

So, yeah, no, I definitely knew right when I got to Mount Olive, I'm like, yeah, this is the level, or this is the group of, you know, young women who I want to be around for sure.

A coach.

How valuable was that experience at Mount Olive?

When you talk about, as you said, all of the different things that you got to have your hands on, because that's one of the interesting things that.

When we've talked to different coaches on the podcast, obviously people start their career at different points and at different levels, and there's a lot of coaches that we've talked to that start out at a lower level.

And then obviously, the staff's not as big, right?

So you have more responsibilities.

You have to do all those things that you just described.

You got to drive the van, you got to do the laundry, you got to do the credit card receipts, you got to mop the floors.

There's all these different things that you have to do.

And then conversely, there's other coaches who start maybe as a GA at the Division 1 level, where your responsibilities are more narrow, and there's pluses and minuses, obviously, to both.

And again, career paths take all different kinds of directions.

But just talk a little bit about how valuable getting all those different experiences were that first year and how that's played into the rest of your career and helped you as you've progressed.

Yeah, it's been extremely valuable, truthfully.

It's been.

I mean, just going from Mount Olive to UIC and so on.

Like, I had knowledge of all that stuff, right?

Like, when it was time, because the places I've been fortunate to be a part of, besides one of them, where I'm actually having to do my own receipts and, you know, maybe help the manager, you know, would put the clothes and, you know, kind of be able to give some guidance or help to, you know, people who are more in those specific areas.

Because I've done it.

I have some knowledge of it, like how to create a spreadsheet, right, To.

To take the meals for the players and things like that.

So just the knowledge that I was able to gain in that experience is.

It's.

It's.

It's, like, instrumental for right now, a place like here, because, you know, we.

We are.

We still.

We.

We are low Division 1 school, but we wearing a lot of hats over here.

You know, we wearing a lot of hats over here.

And again, I'm not above any of these tasks, these small tasks that, you know, that are in front of me with, you know, pulling out the chairs, helping set up for game day because we a small athletic department and things like that.

So to be able to share the knowledge that I gained in my early years at Mount Olive with my staff, my current staff that I have now, they look at me like, right now, like, what?

You did that?

Like, I'm like, yeah, you know, I ain't gonna be talking about the salary of it.

Like, because trust me, if.

If it was the salary that some of them, you know, they would be like, no, heck, no, I ain't working for you.

But it's still like, I wasn't even thinking about the money then, you know, you weren't even thinking about, like, how.

Where am I going, how I'm gonna eat, you know, where I'm gonna lay and all that.

That wasn't even a thought for me.

It was just, I'm getting all this experience that I know that's going to help prepare me for whatever it is that's next in a different place where it might.

I might not be doing all these things.

I might just be doing one or two, but I'll know how to do them.

Yeah.

What's the most important lesson or two that you learned during your time as an assistant at your various stops that you feel like, helped you when you eventually got an opportunity to be a head coach?

What's something that you learned as an assistant that your head coach needs or something that you feel like, man, doing?

Being able to do that really prepared me for being a head coach.

Yeah, The.

The flexibility, right.

Like, just being flexible.

But also, just truthfully, I would say, Mike, it's.

It's like connections, right?

Like the.

The.

Just the.

The genuine connections, I would say, with people.

Because I do think, like, how you treat people and how, you know, you are with people.

I do believe it'll come back to you.

Right.

Like, so, yes, you know, I've.

I've worked with a lot of different coaches, been around and, you know, have a lot of friends who work for a lot of different people.

But I also think we undervalue the relationship piece or, you know, the.

The gratitude of how to treat people like that.

That part right there gets me every time because it's like, you know, yeah, we all.

Everybody want to win.

We know.

We feel the pressure and, you know, yeah.

When we in assistant coach role.

No, we don't feel it what the head coach feel.

We don't.

We think we do until we get over there.

But, you know, again, it's still, like, we're still human, right.

We're still, you know, people who are trying.

But, you know, I would say that just the gratitude of the connection, the genuine connection, and just really serving people, you know, really genuinely serving people.

Seriously, as you went through your various stops as an assistant, in the back of your mind, were you preparing, thinking about eventually getting an opportunity as a head coach?

And if that's the case, which I'm assuming it was, how did you prepare yourself for what eventually was going to be that first opportunity at Chicago State in terms of thinking about watching the head coaches that you worked with and saying, hey, I like this piece of what they're doing?

Or maybe here's something that I would do differently or obviously you're learning all different styles of play and, and different philosophies, X's and O's.

Why?

So just how did you sort of put all that stuff together?

Are you a Google Drive?

Are you a three ring binder old school person?

How'd you kind of put together the plan for what you.

What you eventually might want to do if you were to.

To.

To get your own program at some point?

Yeah, look, you said I'm a little bit of all that.

Mike, seriously, I have like binders where, like when in my move to South Carolina, I'm like, is it time to throw that away?

No, it's not.

I need to get some.

But I also got the drive, the hard drive and everything.

But just also I've been fortunate to really like talking to people.

I feel like it's more power in just having them conversations with people not just in the circle, but also outside the circle.

And again, the coaches that I've been fortunate to work for and work with, they were, I would say in their own way, was kind of preparing me for this opportunity.

And I would say, Rebecca Tillett being one, you know, we didn't even know each other when we started working with each other at Longwood.

And she just put so much trust in me and gave me so much responsibility and taking care of some things where I'm like, you know, we learning each other and everything, but she was tasking me with things that I'm like, hold on.

And she would always use the phrase like we're leading alongside each other.

Like, you know, stuff like that.

And you know, she never was that person, a head coach that you felt like, oh, she's the head.

It was all, you know, it's a collective shared leadership is what she would call it.

And I'm like, wow.

Like she really, you know, and yeah, and she would, she would say to me like, you know, you're going to be doing this.

And I'm like, oh, no.

Oh no.

Like, I'm okay.

I.

It's no rush for that.

No rush for all that.

Cause, you know, like just so many different changes.

Right.

And how I, you know, visualize myself doing things comparison to some of the people I've worked with but still took.

Have taken a lot of.

A lot of things from them, how I do things now.

But yeah, it was, you know, I like to say they were just kind of slowly preparing me and putting me in different spots in different areas that truthfully, at the moment, yeah.

In the Back of my head, I'm like, yeah, I eventually want to be a head coach, but when it comes, it comes right, Like, I wasn't out here, like, putting together a whole, you know, portfolio on, like, hey, I'm sending this to this person that I wasn't doing any of that.

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So the Chicago State opportunity, obviously in your hometown, is one that clearly was attractive to you.

So how does that come to pass?

Is that one that the job opens up and you start actively seeking it?

Is that one where the job opens up and somebody gives you a call and says, hey, would you consider this position?

Just how does that come across your desk?

Yeah, someone did call.

So that would.

That might have been the second time around that someone called, inquired about me.

And the first time it was kind of like, oh, no, absolutely not.

You know, it was one of those, like, not ready, first of all, but also like, hey, like, no, you know, I wasn't ready to go home, but also go into that environment either.

Certainly knew I wasn't prepared for that.

And then the second time around, it's crazy because me and Elliot.

Elliot actually used to be at Clemson.

Our path crossed at Clemson.

He was associate AD in compliance area, and I was obviously on the women's basketball side.

But our paths crossed in.

And, you know, he was, what, a year in at Chicago State.

And I'm sure he had a short list.

And we talked and, you know, we connected really well.

And, you know, he knew.

He had some good insight on me and just share some stuff.

And I, you know, I started doing research as well.

And you know, Mike, obviously I had quite a few people, like, well, you know, it is home, right?

You know, you get to go home and if somebody gonna do it, be able to do it.

I'm like, man, like, this is.

I know.

You know, like, I know, like, I knew every bit of, like, what I was potentially walking into, right?

Like, I didn't think the pandemic was gonna Be the way it was right.

But it was right.

So it was one of those where it's opportunity for me to go home.

I did feel like, you know, yeah, I think I'm ready for this now.

I do think that because it was some other opportunities and some D2 schools, things have presented itself the year before that.

And not like, nah, I'm not, you know, I'm not interested.

But this one, I did, I did feel, I genuinely felt like, okay, this could be it.

I knew it was going to take some time.

I knew that, but I didn't know it was gonna be kind of feeling at the detriment of my health where it's like, woo.

So everything everybody was saying was really, really it.

But I still felt so in it.

You know, like when you in it, you just kind of lose like, okay, well they not seeing what I'm seeing.

You know, you see it completely different than everybody else, but you just want so bad for something just to, you know, find some hope or, or have some hope there.

And you know, it didn't work out unfortunately.

And you know, I am.

Things happen for a reason.

You know, super grateful for the opportunity that Elliot did give me there.

And it was my decision to, to step away because I, I didn't see any, any light in the tunnel.

And you know, I do think it was the right time for me to do that.

And with bomb that I did leave that.

Those group of women that I did bring into there, but they also understood I was very transparent and you know how things were going.

And I'm telling you, when I talk about all hands and everybody was in it, we were all in it.

Just for me it was just a little, little different.

Different field than, than some of them.

But they completely had my back.

They understood it and you know, then it.

I went on from there.

So.

So after that, a year at St.

Louis and then back to Presbyterian.

So tell me about the year with St.

Louis and how that whether it changed your mentality, whether it prepared you for this opportunity and, and then lead into how the Presbyterian job becomes available and the decision to, to go there and then we'll start talking about building that program.

Yeah, yeah.

So.

Goodness.

Well, you know, till it.

Me and Tilly had worked together at Longwood, but till it, you know, she was in it with me too at Chicago State.

Right.

She knew everything that I was going through at Chicago State and she knew the thoughts of, you know, this, this could possibly.

I might be coming up on a break.

Just kind of, if I can rewind A little bit.

I did have some, you know, traumatic family experiences that happened when I lost my brother and my dad in back to back years.

And I never took a break.

This was in between my last year, Longwood and coming to Chicago State.

So a lot was happening.

But I just, you know, basketball kept me occupied and in that space.

And she knew and I was just sharing with her, like, till, you know, I think I'm, you know, probably going to just take a break, right?

I just feel so beat up and so just, you know, like, I love this game too much, you know, to not give it my all.

And she like, you know, let's, let's.

Let's see if we can keep the fire going.

I think you can come over here and help me do some special stuff.

And I'm like, girl, you just won a championship.

Like, you don't need my help, you know, like.

But we were so connected and, you know, we.

We loved our working relationship that we had together.

And, you know, we go over there to St.

Louis and going into there, we.

We didn't know, like, you know, we didn't.

We didn't know we were gonna.

It was gonna end the way it ended with the, you know, winning champion on a good.

In a good way for sure, right?

Like, we just work, you know, till it is someone who works extremely hard.

Her staff, the other coaches work extremely hard.

And we all, you know, we knew.

We kind of already knew.

We.

The foundation was kind of there.

Like, we knew how we wanted to do things and our connection was work.

Like I said, we got a great working connection and we got to work with those young women and they believed, they started believing because at first it was kind of like, all right, we going through it.

Everybody, you know, season start off a little rocky and everybody like, hold on now, what's going on here?

But we never lost hope.

We never lost the faith.

And we stayed true to till his process too.

You know, we really did.

And she stayed on it.

She stayed very consistent and everybody else did too.

And eventually everybody was slowly buying in and you know, like, okay, we got this and started believing, started really believing on a different level than, you know, despite the outside exterior noise that we were hearing.

And we went on a run and next thing you know, Mike, we look up, we.

We up in playing Tennessee and we like, okay, this is going to be fun.

But great experience, Great opportunity for our women to.

To experience that.

The women at St.

Louis for the first time.

But, you know, Tillett group, the.

The young women that came with Tillett from Longwood.

They had just experienced that.

Right?

So they knew.

Right.

Like, so it was a really good, good mix of just, you know, the experience.

The people who have one had, had a taste of it.

They want it again and to help the other group and help everybody else come along and experience that was so rewarding.

And, you know, I did take a little break after St.

Louis, you know, till it's certainly again, another break that she supported.

But again, if you kind of listen to me a little bit on the front end, it was coming, you know, because I certainly was going to take it before making a decision to go to St.

Louis, but just really want to stick it out and see if I still had it in me.

And I just, you know, it was just a mental break, like, really a mental break, but also to be there for my family, my mom and everything.

And it was, it was the best thing that possibly could happen.

Right, Mike?

And, you know, not a lot of people, you know, would take a break, right, and take a break and then be fortunate enough to come back into this seat again or had an opportunity to come into this seat.

But I'm, you know, super grateful for the people that supported me, especially my family and even some of my mentors.

I'll talk to them and sharing, hey, this is what I'm thinking.

This is what I'm going to do.

And you know, everybody, of course, like you, so brave about this, but, you know, I wholeheartedly stand it and felt it and thought it was the best thing and the right thing for me and no regrets for sure.

So during that time when you're taking that little break, are you reflecting on your experience as a first time head coach and then thinking about, obviously you were in some difficult circumstances with COVID which threw everybody for a loop in terms of that, what, whatever that experience was, it was not a normal experience.

And so for somebody who's going through and being a head coach for the first time under those circumstances, I'm not sure how realistic that was in terms of what it's really like to be a head coach under normal circumstances.

But just during that break, are you reflecting and thinking about, well, if I get another opportunity, maybe here's the way that I'm thinking, or here's what I might do differently, or here's what I thought went well.

Just what was the process for you kind of thinking through that first experience and preparing yourself mentally for what.

What would be your second opportunity as a head coach?

Yeah, going through all that.

So, you know, I, like, I shared with you keeping the binders and heavy journaling, right.

And just talking.

And so in, in that break, I was still going.

I went to watch Northwestern practice.

You know, I was talking to some of my friends who are in a business coach.

And I honestly felt like I was like a, a part time consultant, Mike, because, you know, all my friends were still in it and you know, we're talking over the phone and, you know, I'm just seeing things from a different lens, honestly.

And it was, it made.

I was able to see things a lot clearer too, in terms of, you know, how I would hire just so many different things, or how I would do this or how I would do that.

Just different little things.

But it's certainly like, I didn't like, completely shut basketball off.

DePaul.

I was going to their game, you know, got out to a practice or two and just really still talking to some people, some coaches who I enjoy learning from, just talking to them.

And they all like, you not done yet.

You're not.

You not done yet.

And I'm like, no, I never said it.

I just, you know, just needed to break or whatever.

And I didn't know, truthfully, I didn't know the Presbyterian was going to come so soon.

I really did.

I was thinking like, okay, if it works out, that's great.

But, you know, there were still some opportunities for me to go back into the assistant coach seat.

And, you know, to be really honest, I was kind of like, you know, I really like my time managing my own time and things like that.

And, you know, just the balance, the work life balance that I appreciate so much.

You know, obviously being in the seats, you're able to have a little bit more control over that.

But still grind, right?

We still grinding, but it was just still Michelle Meadows to, to.

To jump to Presbyterian.

But Michelle Meadows was the athletic director at Longwood.

And we touched base.

We.

We connected with each other and we connected over some other opportunities that was kind of presenting itself and just also picking her brain on.

Like, you know, what if I, you know, I don't get into coaching?

Like, there, there's gotta be some other opportunities or something that I can do.

Like, I love the game.

You know, what other way can I serve, be in this game or be, you know, be connected to doing something around basketball.

And, you know, she was talking and just throwing out some different things and just, you know, she's such a helper and a giver and she's.

Anything you need me to do, just let me know and all that.

And somehow Presbyterian came up, and she's actually.

She knows the athletic director.

Her and Dean Nichols are really good friends.

And, you know, they had a conversation, and, you know, Dee, we talked, and there was interest from me and her, and I'm like, well, Presbyterian did just come off of, you know, like, wow, Presbyterian just won the Big south.

And being in the league, you know, know the league a little bit and feel like it is a league that you can have some success in doing, you know, doing things the right way and with the right pieces.

And, yeah, once I was.

Had the opportunity to speak with Dee, it was like, okay, it went from, hey, we.

You know, she got.

She got a list of folks, right?

So I wasn't thinking, like, okay, this not going anywhere.

You know, I even talked to quite a few of my mentors, like, what you think of this?

You know?

And they like, oh, you know, okay, all right.

But I honestly think, like, some of them thinking, like, well, shit, Tim been off.

Can I.

She's been off a year.

There's no way.

But no, like, it really worked out.

And I.

I do think, you know, Dee obviously seen something in me, and our connection was good.

I got to meet with a group of folks and felt like Presbyterian honestly is headed in the right direction.

They like basketball here.

They want basketball to do well, especially after getting that taste of it, right?

Going to the tournament and seeing how special it can be not only for the college, but also the community.

Right?

Like, I'm talking about my first day there, and I'm in a coffee shop or going food lie in one of the stores, and I'm literally thinking.

I'm like, kind of, you know, nobody know me or whatever, but y'all, they like, oh, you the new coach or you.

You know, I'm like, so they are paying attention, right?

Like, so that made me feel good, too.

Like, okay, maybe I did make.

I do feel like I made the right decision.

I'm in the right place where I'm supposed to be.

And, yeah, we own this roller coaster right now.

We certainly on this track, trying to get it.

Get it going in the right direction for sure.

Talk about putting together your staff.

What's your process philosophy for putting together a great staff?

Yes, man.

Some of the people I thought, you know, that I was going to be a.

Like, the.

The.

The pot didn't say that.

So I had to, you know, kind of look at some things that, you know, I reached back to.

To a few of my former players who are coaching, too.

But also, you know, they had.

They reached out Inquiring about some people that they knew as well.

So it was like, you know, people throwing you names and all that.

And I really was like going through the process and it did take me a while, Mike, to really hire some people because, you know, I really believe in hiring good humans is what I say.

Really good people, right?

Like, and, you know, you still make some mistakes along the way and you really try to weed out the ones you really feel.

Not a fit.

But, you know, the staff that I have now has been great young.

It's a young, young group of coaches who, you know, have been to coaching for a short, short, some short years, but played at a really high level and they're hungry and they are workers, which I greatly appreciate.

And I did some heavy research on them.

And you know, I think one point our HR lady and Dee were thinking like, you really taking your time with this process because, you know, we coming up on recruiting stuff and I'm still a one woman show and I'm like, you know, in my head all I could hear is higher, slow, you know, the rest after that.

But I'm just thinking like, you know, let me take my time, let me try to do this right, you know, comparison to what Some things I learned about myself at Chicago, stating that first time around on the type of people.

And again, I had some awesome people with me at Chicago State, but I couldn't get those people again because they're in, you know, really good places and positions now and doing really great things in their life.

But, you know, this group of coaches that I have now, I did some work.

I mean, I really did do some work.

And yeah, we're learning daily for sure.

How do you divide up responsibilities on the staff?

You said how.

Yeah, how do you divide it up?

You have, you go, hey, you got an offensive coordinator, defensive coordinators, or is it more?

Everybody's got their hand in everything.

Just how do you divvy up those responsibilities?

You know, I used to think like that.

Mike said.

I used to like, I.

That would be ideal for me.

I'm not kidding.

That would be so ideal.

I would love to do that.

But I think for right now we got, we got everybody kind of, you know, growing their knowledge in a lot of different areas.

But we do have some people.

I do, I had these conversations, right.

I hear their strength areas, their areas where they're really good.

And I, I've already assessed that and see that.

So I really put them, tasked them in those areas.

But I also challenged them in some areas where, you know, I hear what they say they want to do and how they want to continue to grow, and I delegate that to them as well.

And helping them.

Right.

And helping.

Hopefully being a good mentor to them.

And, you know, and not.

I'm not.

I'm not a hand holder, I can tell you that for sure.

But also my staff know that, you know, we got to do things the right way and not.

And hard.

You know, we got to work hard.

But yeah, I certainly feel like our staff is gifted in a lot of different areas.

You know, we got Ivy Slaughter, who's played at a really high level, played at Florida State, young coach who's just hungry to do a ton of different things.

Like, she was awesome.

She.

She's.

I mean, I'm hopeful I can keep her for as long as I can because she's just that good, Mike, honestly.

And then we got Elise Kiplock, who's a international coach.

She used to be over at Farum, but just a sponge and just know a lot of different things.

But she's also so computer savvy and just have a lot of different ideas that, you know, certainly going to help our program.

And we got the Earnest and.

And Nick Boboschka and some young coaches who, you know, just really hungry, like to be in a gym.

And, you know, we talk about just sharing your gift, right?

We.

We act it openly even with our players.

What is your gift?

And share it.

Right?

Like, you can't be selfish and hold that gift in.

You got to share your gift.

So we talk heavy about that, but we also build upon it as well.

In addition, obviously, to your staff being extremely important when you come into a new program, I'm assuming one of the first things you have to do is sit down with the returning players.

So what were those conversations like when you talk?

Obviously, players who are in the program were recruited by a different head coach that they thought they were going to play for over the course of their career.

And now you're coming in and having to sell them on your philosophy, sell them on you as a head coach.

So what were those conversations like when you first get the job, as you're talking to the returning players in the program?

Yeah, look, I think they first of all felt like they sized me up when I first came in the room.

Like, where did she come from?

Like, who is this?

Or whatever.

And it's crazy because they.

My players, some of my players, like, that they knew of or knew somebody that knew some of my players.

Like, I was getting a bunch of messages like, why your players, some player from your school hit me up, asking me about this or, you know, all that and just different things.

So I think it was a lot of nerves for sure, in the beginning, and, you know, hopefully it's still some healthy nerves still going on right now.

But.

But no, they were just kind of like, they were very curious, right?

Because there they are thinking, you know, like, you know, we got some players who were injured when I came in here, biking.

You know, how that used to look when there's a change.

So I'm talking to them, you know, hearing them out as well, just as much as I want them to hear me out, too.

And I knew I needed to hit the ground running.

But, you know, we have honest conversations when we still have those conversations to this day of, you know, continuing to understand clear expectations.

Right.

Standards of the program.

But they were just very curious on, you know, what's she going to do?

Is she going to keep me?

Like, how this is gonna go, who she's bringing in here?

Because, I mean, right away in that first week, you know, I was having, you know, folks come on campus, and they were helping me out, too.

The returners were awesome and like, hey, I can show you around, because I'm still learning the campus, too.

So they.

I'm going on a tour with them, and remember, I don't have a staff at all at this moment, so.

So it was, like, all in, and it was on top of graduation, and they were getting ready to head out.

They were finishing up final exam.

So it was a lot going on in that short time.

But, you know, they were super helpful.

Very.

Like I said, just very curious as to who I am and how I want to do things.

And, you know, truthfully, why do I care?

I think that's been the biggest thing for the returners.

And, like, she.

She genuinely cared.

You know, I'm checking in on them, and some of them kind of like, why she did you mean to call me?

I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm supposed to do that.

But, you know, they just.

Some of the things that they're getting from me now, they wasn't accustomed to.

And that's not a bad thing.

It's just how I do things and how I grow and build relationships is different than what they've experienced.

And, you know, I'm hopeful that it'll continue to go in the right direction.

Right.

What was your planning process like this past summer?

Figuring out how you wanted to play in terms of, again, defensive offensive philosophy, Looking at your personnel?

What did you Do.

How did you go about putting together the plan for this season in terms of how you wanted to play?

Yeah, so I did have this whole vision and it's just right now, you know, it's just continue to evolve, right.

It's always working itself out.

But you know I still want to play like you know I want, I, I do want to be aggressive team, I want to get up and press, I want to play a little bit faster, I want to play more man to man but mix it up and things like that and it was just okay finding those pieces, right.

Because again the returners that I, that I did inherit, they were used to a different style of play, right.

A more slow down pace, you know, more zone type of style.

And it worked for them.

It really did work for them.

So the whole summer it was just all you could hear a lot is pace, pace, pace, intensity, you know, just different things and, and going out and recruiting those players right.

Like so I really did.

I was trying to hit the portal, talking to some high school coaches.

So I was able to get a pretty good mix of a healthy balance of high schoolers transfers and you know I was fortunate to get a D1 transfer but you know I certainly wanted more.

You know I wanted more and, but yeah it was, I wasn't opposed to you know, finding the best talent at that moment.

I really wasn't.

And obviously in the mix that we have but the style that I want to play, I'm still standing in it.

I do want to play that way and you know we'll continue to keep recruiting to that for sure.

And you know it's a process, right?

That's what I have to tell myself.

It is a process and you know it's not going to help happen overnight but just you know we trying to lay the foundation and building a culture daily, not overnight.

So yeah, tell me about your practice planning process day to day.

So when you have a practice today and then you're going to come back tomorrow and have another practice in between those two, how do you put together your practice plan?

Do you sit down and do it yourself then share it with your assistants?

Are you doing it in a meeting with your assistants?

You're all talking about it.

Just what's the process for putting together a practice plan?

Yeah, so we, we have like a pre practice meeting and we've had some post practice meetings as well and you know we talking about it, we like get practice film, I'm watching film like I'm learning and looking at everything possible to, to help Continue to get us better in whatever way is necessary.

But, you know, I'm encouraging my staff, and heck, we've watched film together as a staff too, and I tell them, hey, what you all see in practice, what is something that, you know, you all feel like we need to keep working on or whatever.

And also, I believe what my eyes tell me every day.

So I use that as the judger too.

Like, you know how we be sometimes so adamant on this is what I know I want to do.

But what you're seeing, I gotta tweak this.

I gotta adjust it.

So, you know, one thing too that I'm learning, Mike, as well, is I can't put everything on a practice plan.

I can't.

Because, you know, we get stuck in a few things that I'm like, we really have to get good at something.

You know, one or two things, and that's what we gonna stick with.

But.

But yeah, like, it's.

It's a collaborative effort and plan and practice and share thoughts from them, you know, even talking with the players, too.

Right on, you know, areas that they want to keep developing and areas for sure that we, you know, visibly see.

We.

That's.

That's an emergency improvement right there.

Like, we got to get better.

We got to put the work in on that right away.

So.

But yeah, my staff is pretty heavy involved, and it's not just all me.

And yeah, I try not to.

I really try to.

You know, again, like, till it taught me is shared leadership, shared thoughts, collaborative thoughts.

And I want to hear everybody's right.

And again, they.

They.

We pretty open and understanding.

Like, yeah, you know, I want everybody to feel comfortable and speaking and, you know, they lead the drill.

Some of the drills, too.

I asked them for some of the ideas, say, okay, be prepared.

You're going to teach it.

You know, and I have some young coaches who kind of like, wait, I can show you or whatever.

And I'm like, no, like, you can show me.

I'll give you some feedback if I need to, but be prepared to show it to our women and, you know, helping them get that opportunity and that experience as well.

And they.

They seem to be doing well with it.

And, you know, I'll know the nerves, but they're getting better every day, for sure.

That's such a good point.

And it's one.

I think that obviously in your years as an assistant that you appreciated, right.

Your head coaches, when they gave you those opportunities to take those responsibilities.

And yet, just when you're describing your assistants as being nervous when they have to take over something.

I remember when I was coaching and I was in a high school varsity assistant, and there'd be times where.

And I don't even know if my head coach did it on purpose even to this day, but there'd be times where all of a sudden he'd be like, I gotta make a phone call.

I'll be right back.

And he'd go and go to the coach's office like, you take this next drill.

And at the time, I didn't necessarily think of it as he was putting that responsibility in my hands to help me become a better coach.

I just thought, he's got it, you know, whatever.

He's ducking out to make a phone call or he's.

Who knows what he's doing.

And now I look back on it and to your point, I'm sure that part of the reason why he was doing that was to give me that responsibility and have me kind of take that over and take some.

Take some leadership and take some responsibility for it.

It's certainly a huge way to be able to grow your staff.

And then the second point that I really like that you made was talking about in the.

In designing a practice.

We all know that when you look at your team, you can come up with a myriad of things that you want to work on on a daily basis.

And yet you know very well that you can't accomplish all those things in a 90 minute or 120 minute practice.

It's just impossible.

And so to be able to sort of drill down into, okay, well, this practice, we need to focus on these one or two things and get really good at those.

I think that's a great point.

And I think it's something that especially young coaches sometimes have difficulty narrowing down and figuring out, okay, what do I need to really hone in on?

Because if I don't, I'm just going to be so scattershot that we're going to end up doing a whole lot of everything and not really accomplishing a whole lot of.

Of anything at the same time.

So I think being that focus to me is really important.

Yeah, no, it really is.

It's.

Again, I'm still learning to this day because I'm like, it might not be reflecting right now what we're doing, and I promise you, we ain't doing everything.

We really try to minimize some of the things and we just.

It's about to show up.

It's going to show up, and we know that.

But.

Yeah, no, it's important.

It really is.

And like you talked about with some of the coaches, I was fortunate to be under.

They did put me, you know, in those positions.

And only thing for them, it was like, you know, they.

It would be in the moment, right?

Hey, Tim, what was that play you talked about?

Show them right now.

And it's like, wait, what?

Like, hold on, Mike, if I can share a story.

One of my coaching at uic.

Regina Miller, right?

Like, I don't know if you know Regina Miller, but she used to be at UNLV and longtime coach there.

And she's.

She's at UIC.

This is my first Division 1 assistant coaching opportunity.

And she.

We in the game.

Like, like you talk about that the moment and she's like, tiff, draw that play for.

For them, right?

Like it's the timeout.

My, like, first first year.

There's everything and they give me the board.

And Mike, I'm talking about, I'm drawing it.

But the top on the marker was never off.

The horn blow, like horn blow.

The assistant coaches and them look at me like, God damn.

I'm like, whoops, Whoops.

That's funny about just being prepared and all that stuff.

And like, I had no clue because Regina, if, you know Regina, she.

She controlled everything, everything.

So for her to just out of nowhere like that surprised everybody.

Well, tip.

Draw that play up and I'm like on the way.

But nothing was on the board.

Like, nothing was on there.

Like godly, just forget it.

That is when you get, when you get put on the spot like that.

It's funny.

So even I'll give you, I'll give you a similar story.

So I help coach my daughter's AU team and I'm just an assistant coach.

And so I do a lot of stuff in practice and in games.

Usually I'm just, you know, I'm sitting on the bench.

I'm kind of a, you know, I'm the cheer, I'm the cheerleader guy.

You know, I'm just, you know, doing my thing.

But every once in a while, our head coach will be at the end of a game or, you know, there'll be some moment he'll be like, hey, can you drop an out of bounds play?

I'm like, you mean one that we've never done before that you want me to draw?

You know, draw up on the.

Draw up on the clipboard?

I'm like, well, sure, I could try to come up with.

I could try to come up with something, you know, and see what I can do.

So, yeah, it's.

I Mean, again, part of being a coach, right, is you talked about earlier is being adaptable, being flexible, being able to, to jump in and do things kind of off the cuff.

And yeah, it's again, there's, there's positives to it and one of the things again as a, as a head coach that you want to do is to be able to develop your staff and help them to get to where they want to go in their careers.

And again, in addition to coaching your team and having success on the floor with your players, developing your staff I think is also an important part of, of being a head coach and, and having success.

And I know that it sounds like that's exactly what you learned in your time as an assistant, exactly what you're going to continue to do as a head coach as you move along.

Before we wrap up, I'm going to ask you a final two part question here and I think it's probably a good point to, to, to get to this because again, where you are in your first season right now and we're in as we're recording this, It's I guess it's 1:05am on December, on December 5th.

So here's the two part question.

Part one is when you look ahead over the next year, what do you see as being your biggest challenge?

And then the second part of the question is when you think about what you get to do every day and obviously you've had a lot of different experiences and you had your break where you stepped away from the game, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

Yeah, the biggest challenge.

Goodness.

I would say the biggest challenge, Mike, probably is we haven't quite been in the nil space yet.

Like we're building a collective.

Like they, it just kind of rolled out this year maybe a month or two ago and we're starting to grow that.

But I do know that we're in that space now, right?

We in that space.

And the type of players that I wish to recruit to PC and would love to, you know, have a opportunity to coach, you know, they, these are the type of players who might be looking for that, right.

Like, so I see that being somewhat of a challenge, right?

And being able to, you know, keep up with that, right?

Like keep up with it because we are a small school, we're in a small town and you know, decently resourced institution.

But it's also, you know, we're, we're continue to grow.

We have to continue to grow and evolve to keep up.

You Know, from a competitive standpoint, not just with.

Within our league, but just, you know, other competitors.

Right.

Like, I find myself in some battles with recruiting some kids that are in the C, like, getting.

Recruit.

Heavily recruited by the caa, Right.

And it's like, I believe, you know, we can get those kids, but I know that they're able to offer, you know, some things that we.

We gotta maybe, you know, expedite a little bit more.

So that piece, I would say.

And the other part is, you know, like, I just really, like, again, the most rewarding part for me has been able to just kind of step back and come back in it and see things from a different lens of just everything is not a crisis.

Right.

It's really not.

And just be able to appreciate the small.

The small victories and almost celebrate them like it's the championship.

Right.

And just not taking those small opportunities for granted.

And, you know, my family too, right?

Like, my family is really happy for me.

And, you know, my brother has already been out there, been out here to support me, and they watch it and everything and they just, you know, they.

They see how excited I am to be back coaching and everything, and they just like, you know, whatever.

Whatever you need us to do, like, we, the cheerleaders, we got to suit up or what.

What else is it?

But again, just really not taking these opportunities for granted and just really maximizing the time that I have and the opportunity that's in front of me and just trying to do my absolute best in it.

Makes sense.

Totally well said.

Before we finish up, I want to give you a chance to share how people can reach out to you, find out more about your program, whether you want to share, email, website, social media, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Yeah, no, you can reach out to me via email.

T.

Sardon Presby Edu.

Also, you can find me on Instagram.

I finally gave in.

I know some of my players and just my friends will talk crazy about me.

But not on Twitter yet.

But I'll be back on there.

But I'm on Instagram at Coach Tiffs with the S at the end of it.

And yeah, follow Blue hose, women's basketball Blueholes, WBB on Instagram and Twitter.

But no, super grateful.

And thank you so much, Mike, for this opportunity.

Absolutely.

Tiffany, cannot thank you enough for being flexible, for staying up late and for sharing your time tonight.

Really appreciate that.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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