You are listening to the we need to Talk about Ask her podcast and this is a conversation with Fazia Mirza, writer director of the Queen of Mind Dreams.

Sharing became very comfortable in this sort of filmmaking journey.

Sharing became very healing.

Sharing became the way I could, like feel better about just continuing to be who I am or digging deeper into being who I am.

Maybe we should start with the idea, the decision of choosing such a deeply personal and emotionally autobiographical story for your debut feature, did it always feel inevitable or was that ever in question for you?

Maybe even just the extent of it.

I don't know if it was inevitable.

I mean, maybe now in reflection we can look back and say it was inevitable.

But you know, I wrote this film and I directed it, but when I started the journey of this story, I was not a director, I was an actor.

And I'd never written a screenplay before, a feature length screenplay.

So I didn't even call myself a filmmaker.

But, you know, the way I started out, the first short film that I made was called the Queen of My Dreams and it was world premiered in 2012.

And it was a really public conversation about a really private struggle, whether I could be queer and Muslim and love Bollywood romance all at the same time.

And I was making that because I was really having that internal crisis of identity.

And so that making this art piece really helped me process those emotions and come to with who I am.

It was a friend of mine actually, because I'd shot it as an art piece and he said, I think we can make a movie.

And so he helped me turn it into a movie.

And that's how it kind of got onto the festival circuit and how I really connected with queer film festivals around the country and around the world.

And, and, and you know, that short film both saved my life, but also it really brought me and grounded me into film festival space as a place that I felt safe and comfortable and felt like I had a home and a place to return to year after year, you know, and because I was an actor at the time, because I acted in this short film, I wanted to do a one person play.

So I wrote and developed a one person play with the help of an incredible company in Chicago.

And the play was called Me, My mom and Sharmila.

And that was again, very personal.

Character's name was Fabia and was sort of, you know, it was a relationship story about a relationship with me and my mother and a love for the Bollywood heroine Sharmila Tagore.

And it really kind of jumped all over the place in terms of like story and time and place and, you know, my childhood and history and all these things and.

But I still hadn't written a screenplay yet.

And I made, you know, after that I wrote a screenplay with another friend.

We made a feature film called Signature Move It World, premiered at south by Southwest.

That was really beautiful.

I also acted in that.

And then it was then that I started to see that there's more I could do with this one person show.

And you know, I'm someone who gets obsessed with something like I am.

I get obsessed with people, I get obsessed with stories, I get obsessed with, I'm obsessed with my wife, I'm obsessed with love.

I, I fall in love like all the time.

And so I was obsessed with this story and I think it's also just an obsession with mothers, you know, and as I really kind of found my footing in this sort of on screen world and could see the possibility, I just was obsessed with continuing to tell this story about mothers.

And like, I think it's also a reflection of where I was at as a person and still trying to like reconcile those relationships in my life.

And, you know, I began the journey of figuring out how do you adapt a one person play into a screenplay.

And I went through many iterations of how that works, many configurations of how that works.

And I think, you know, and I wasn't even directing at the time.

It wasn't until I did this screenwriter's lab at Toronto national film festival in 2020 that I decided to direct and I stopped acting and I wasn't going to be in the movie, I just was going to direct it and write it myself.

And that was really like also life changing and maybe inevitable, but I didn't know it, you know, but I, I will say that this, the film, it's inspired by the short, it's inspired from the play, but it definitely is also fantasy.

You know, I think I really, as a writer was able to unlock the writing when I strayed from proof and just let the characters do what they wanted to do and not feel like I had to.

Yeah, I'd already told, made this play, you know, so that, you know, it's a bit of fantasy, the film and a bit of collective history and collective memory.

Incredible.

And as for going from acting to directing, we of course know of many filmmakers who even began their careers simultaneously acting and directing, and some going from acting to directing while preserving their actor or maybe even their own projects as well.

But for you, going from the familiar space, acting in front of the camera to the unknown behind the camera, and at least for this one, leaving that behind.

How did you reconcile with that?

You know, I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought about not acting before I made the decision in March 2020.

But I just was holding onto this idea so hard for, you know, that I was like, I want to, I need.

This is how.

This is what I meant to do.

But as soon as I decided to direct, something in, in me just felt so free.

And as soon as I decided to direct and stop acting, something inside of me just felt so happy.

Like, you know, have you ever had that moment where you're like, you, you're, you're in turmoil about a decision, but then you make it and then suddenly you take a deep breath, your lungs clear, your shoulders ease, and you're like, oh my God, I feel so much better like that.

I had that feeling.

And it's not like it's easy.

It's not like I knew how to do everything.

And I'm learning every day.

You know, I'm in prep on a movie right now and there's so much to learn and how thrilling to be learning every day you do something.

And I think, I also see, I'm always learning because you're working with new people and new collaborators.

So there's always something to gain and learn from those experiences.

But I mean, that transition, just the making of it felt great and comfortable and full of ease.

But before I made the feature, I mean, I decided to direct in 2020, but then I, and we shot it in 2022, end of 2022, I made like five other shorts.

I made like some website like I, I had started.

I did a lot of other work to get experience on set and to try to understand how it works.

So that by the time I got to make the movie, I, it wasn't the first time I was like stepping behind the camera, so to speak.

But it was hard.

Making this movie was really hard.

I think making any movie is a miracle and a blessing.

And you know, the fact that we're able to do this, fact that I'm able to do this as a job, it is remarkable, you know, like that this is my job.

Like that is nuts.

And I definitely don't take it for granted.

But I was so lucky to have incredible producers on this movie.

Producers who had worked with first time feature directors before, Jason Lavangi and Mark Tetra, my, my Nova Scotia Canadian, and producers, my wife, Andrea Wilson Ruza, who knows me so well and was able to just like be there and do everything that we needed to do.

It's like, you know, she knew my brain, outside my body kind of thing.

And like my DP and my editor, my, my, my production designer, my whole local Pakistan team, the art team, the, the, the wardrobe team, the hair team, the local producers, like they all were so committed.

There's no way this movie would be what it was if it weren't for them.

And also their commitment, like it's that, right?

It's like it wasn't just that they were committed and I had to also rise to that.

Like they were inspiring to me too.

Love that.

And as for the story itself, once again, with something this personal, I imagine there is a constant sort of negotiation within yourself, basically with yourself between what serves the story and what serves your own emotional healing.

Well being was there.

And maybe this is not an exact thing, but was there a line that you set for yourself that maybe you didn't want to cross or just sometimes went back not for the sake of preserving mystery, but so that some of your stories and cherished moments can remain yours alone?

Cause when sharing like this, even though they don't become others stories, maybe the part where they attach their memories to them.

Yes, but I feel like you put a certain level of distance between yourself and this part of you by putting it out in the open.

You know, I guess, I guess so.

I guess they're distanced by putting it out there.

I think of it as I love people and I love audiences and I make for audiences.

I don't see the point.

I mean, maybe my first short film I was making for myself, but I also was like, you know, it was maybe I was kind of so personal.

I was trying to process something and it wasn't a film until somebody helped me make it a film.

But it was so to share.

The intention was for it to go to film festivals.

It was never just to make and like leave it on the floor or leave it in a bedroom.

It was always intended to be shared and shared widely.

So I have come up through this space of sharing and sharing widely and I'd say like, maybe there's a distance to it, but I don't know.

I think for me, like I came out as queer in very public spaces, like sharing this work that I've done and posting about it.

When people would reply, I'd be like, well, I guess they know now, you know.

So it was always, it became for me, sharing became very comfortable in this sort of filmmaking journey.

Sharing became very healing.

Sharing became the way I could like, feel better about just continuing to be who I am or digging deeper into being who I am.

I don't know.

I feel so comfortable in my skin that I don't see it as being distant.

I see it as being transcendent and expansive.

Because through all of this work, whether it's through making the art, sharing it with people, working on myself in private spaces, alone or with others, I'm always growing and I always want the audience to be part of it.

And I love that.

I love that so much.

I guess the thing I was trying to say before was, like, through all the work, through all the growth, through all the making of the art, I feel super comfortable being who I am sharing.

And I found these, like, I've excavated all that bad stuff that really kind of, I don't know, hurts us.

So for me, the art is joyful.

It's love.

It's revolutionary.

Love is revolutionary to me.

And there still aren't that many queer Muslim, like, storytellers, like, there are, but who are kind of.

We all get to kind of, like, connect with.

And so for me, it's just, like, part of mission.

It's like, I'm doing this for us, too.

There is this saying or figure of speech.

My life is a movie.

And for the characters of Azra and Mariam, you've constructed that into a somewhat literal reality through the Bollywood sequences as a through line.

Right.

Because then there is this pretty wonderful meta moment early in the film where, and I hope this is not a spoiler, it's fairly early on, while watching a Bollywood movie, Azra's girlfriend asks whether it wasn't weird for the actress to perform opposite an actor who plays both her husband and son?

Did this come up in your conversations with your lead actress, Amrit, who found herself in a situation very similar to this, but from the perspective of the one playing multiple roles.

I mean, we.

You know, it wasn't originally when I first started thinking about casting, it wasn't always two roles.

It was something that came up as I was thinking about, like, writing the breakdowns and writing the characters.

And like, okay, well, if the mother is the daughter, like, who is this?

And then truly, one night I just thought, wait a minute, what if this actor plays both roles?

And my producers were just like, it was a resounding yes from them.

And then it just felt like another literalization of the daughter is the mother.

And.

And also another reflection, another touch point to the reference, the film that is referenced in the film.

And I guess, like, thinking about it was just Important.

I mean, it was sort of like playing these two roles.

It's like it was so important that someone was able to speak the language convincingly.

That was really important.

But it was also important that like all the other pieces, the costume, the hair, the wardrobe, like that stuff makes is so key the production design to setting us in a different world.

Like, I really trust our audience to just go with us.

So that was something I was really relying on as well.

That will help our story and help the actor was that shift in 60s versus 90s, the look that they would take on and then in terms of like the actor playing the mother and the actor playing the daughter.

I think it was an early conversation about, like trying to emulate one another.

And I, at one point, I sort of was just like, I think, let's let go of that because we don't need that.

You don't even need to look alike because you know what I mean?

Like, when you meet someone and someone says, this is my daughter, we believe them.

You know what I mean?

We just believe it.

We don't need to find the similarity to believe that our this person is telling us the truth.

We just go with it.

And so I again, really trusted the audience that if we set it up right, the audience will believe us and go with it.

So I actually sort of let go of trying to have accents or mannerisms or similar noses.

Like it was more just about who's the right person for this role.

Because also we change.

You know what I mean?

Like, that's part of the story.

That's an integral part of the story is none of us stays the same.

And like, having compassion for that change.

And so, like, we change in emotional ways, we change in literal, physical ways.

And so it's okay, you're reaching.

Our voices change.

Like this stuff changes and evolve so that, you know, all of those things went into the kind of thinking of these roles and these women in these roles and playing these roles.

It's really interesting to think about now when I think of, like, who they are, like, they're, you know, and Ayanna, who plays young Azra.

These are three very different people, three very different actors.

They're so believable because, you know, I really leaned into be who you are.

That's it.

That's what we need.

That's going to tell us the truth.

Be who you are.

And the rest we just buy that you're the young, you're the older, you're the mother, you're the daughter, you're the grandm.

You know?

Yeah.

And as far as the trust goes that you just mentioned, it's so fascinating how we always talk about the trust you gotta have in your cast and crew.

But then, of course, it's so obvious.

You gotta trust the audience just as.

Much, if not more 1000%.

You have to trust.

I'm like, and I think, like, maybe that says for me something about I trust my audience.

But to trust my audience, I also have to trust my gut, which for me, my gut is my heart.

And so I trust my own heart when it comes to the emotional truth of a scene or of a line of dialogue or the comedic truth of a scene or a line of dialogue.

And so I'm like, wait, does this feel good for us?

Does this feel good for my heart?

And like, that's where I'm always seeking on set.

But also in the edit, it was like, yeah, it's not.

I don't feel it yet.

So it's always chasing that for me.

It's chasing the feeling.

Yeah.

And the story itself is built around both these pivotal moments.

Whether they be quite seismic, life changes and the smaller, quieter revelations, turns of events and so on, while exploring how we become who we are, how we change.

As you just said, what was and what has been your experience with the difference and similarities between the small moments and the big ones in terms of how they actually shape us?

Oh, wow.

You know, I think about this a lot in terms of our industry, in terms of working in Hollywood, in terms of working in the film industry.

When an actor in particular, let's say, or a writer or director, and sort of gets kind of like, suddenly is like, you see their celebrity rises and you're suddenly like, oh my God, they're in this movie, they're amazing and suddenly they're famous.

The number one thing that people say is this person came out of nowhere.

And the thing about that is that is a lie.

None of us come out of nowhere.

We have been, all of us.

Whether we're talking about being in the business, the film business, or just like any other work, or just our day to day lives, we are a series of moments.

Everything we're doing is a moment that contributes and layers onto everything else.

Whether it's something we learn from, whether it's something we, you know, an emotional growth, like a skill level up, a new relationship that's changed us.

Whether we fall in love, whether we had our heart broken, whether we broke someone's heart, you know, whether you have a kid, you have a cat, those are more milestones.

But like every moment, this conversation we're having is one of those moments.

So the person we're becoming is a series of incremental moments, so none of us come out of nowhere.

And so when I think about the little moments and the big moments, it's all of it.

Everything that we have experienced is why we are now, why we are now, why we are who we are now, where we are now.

Yeah, it's all of it.

I love it.

All it is.

Gosh, I can't wait to see what you have coming up next.

Thanks again for the show.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, thanks for chatting.

This was.

Was fun.