I remember one post she made on social media where she said like, you owe me. I could have flushed you down the toilet. And so for you to ignore me, who are you to do that? Who are you? And I'm trying to get my grandfather and I'm like, Hey, somebody needs to help me. I don't know what to do. She's lashing out at the whole family. It was just really, really hard.

Welcome to the Mother-Daughter Relationship. Show the podcast for mothers and daughters who want to build stronger bonds, deepen their understanding and transform their relationships. I'm your host, Brittany Scott, licensed therapist and mother-daughter relationship coach. After years of working with hundreds of daughters. And mothers. I've developed strategies that help break generational patterns, heal wounds, and create the loving relationships you've always wanted. Each week I'll be sharing insights from real clients, expert interviews and practical tools you can use immediately to improve your mother-daughter dynamic. Whether you're struggling with communication breakdowns, navigating major life transitions, or simply wanna take your already good relationship to the next level. The show is for you. And yes, the transformation I guide my clients through can be yours too. I'll share more about how you can work with me. It's time to experience the relationship you both deserve. Are you ready? Let's dive in.

Hi, and welcome back to the Mother Daughter Relationship Show. I'm your host, Brittney, and in today's episode, we have another interview. I am completing an interview series with a few women who are sharing reconnection stories. Some of them, the reconnection is still going on for others, the reconnection has ended for a number of reasons, but they went through a breakup. And they went through reconnection. And so I wanna do these interviews to show that this is possible. It's something that can happen and that if you want this kind of story, if you want reconnection to happen for you, that it is possible. And so I just wanna show you that it is through other women sharing their stories and just remind you that reconnection and repairing relationships is part of the work that I do. I work with moms and daughters together almost every day now. I'm so excited to say that. Um, but almost every day now, working with multiple couples to help them repair and reconnect. Their relationships. So I know it's possible. I want you to believe that it's possible for yourself if that's something that you desire. And also, like I don't romanticize reconnection. I know that it's possible because I've helped women do it. And I know it's possible because I'm interviewing women that. I have done it themselves, but I also know that there are some daughters that should be disconnected and should be detached from their mom. That reconnection shouldn't be possible because the daughter would just enter back into a relationship of harm. There are some relationships where the daughter would not be safe to reconnect and it doesn't make sense and it's not possible for her because. Her journey has to look different in order to properly heal. And her mom is probably more harmful than good in her life no matter what her age or no matter like what's happening. So I know that it's possible, but it's not appropriate for everybody. So if it's appropriate for you, I wanna bring in some inspiration to show you that these stories are real. But today we are interviewing Jennifer. Jennifer Soland is a school psychologist, writer and founder of Rooted Joy Wellness. It's a healing space for women ready to break cycles and reclaim their joy. Her work weaves together mental health, faith, grief, and liberation, and how joy can coexist with all of it. She's an avid baker, a karaoke lover, and never misses a chance to turn hard stories into healing. So I'm excited for you guys to hear her story and bring her in. So without further ado, uh, let's jump into the interview and let you hear from Jennifer. Okay. All right guys. We have Jennifer here with us, and I'm excited to hear her story and allow her to share that. So please tell us a bit about yourself and then we'll jump into your mother-daughter story.

Sure. Hi, I am Jennifer. I am school psychologist and licensed psychologist associate professionally. However, as a person, I grew up in Michigan, born and raised. My family is like, not necessarily from Michigan. We're part of like of course the great migration. So there's a lot of southern and like country roots to like how I was raised. I'm in influences. I went to school in Michigan. I was there up until I finished college. Then I moved into DC and I've been in DC since then. I like to say being a wife and a mother is like the least interesting thing about me. I'm an avid book reader. I love podcasts. I love karaoke. Well, just, I feel like this thing that I love music that comes from my grandfather, my mom, I like to say I'm just like a well-rounded person, but that's generally like who I am as a person outside of professionally.

Yeah. Karaoke sounds fun. Can you really sing?

No.

Are you a good singer? No. Okay.

No, but it's funny 'cause I actually own a karaoke mic at home that I bought. 'cause it's part of like my decompression. You know? Everybody's like, you see online, everybody's like, oh, you know, how do you unwind? How do you care for yourself? And caring for myself often includes 30 minutes of nineties, like r and b or like pop nineties, 2000. It's just like down in the basement of her house, just like singing off key and doing the dance moves from the videos.

I love it. I'm imagining like a teenage girl just jamming out on her own. So I love this.

Absolutely. Definitely tapping into that. I don't want, don't wanna say like childlike wonder, but definitely the version of myself that did not have all of these responsibilities and decisions to make

back when time was a little bit easier.

Definitely.

So we are here to share your mother-daughter story and this series of stories that I'm sharing is about. Triumph. So repairing and reconnecting after the relationship was either estranged or just heavily broken. So I'd like you to start with telling us, start with the beginning of your story. So where things started to break down, what was the final straw and did you guys become completely estranged, or was it just the painful relationship?

So I guess I should start, like my mom had me when she was 17, and so my grandparents like to say. I was the last baby brought into their house because my mom was in high school. She was a high school senior when she had me. And so just growing up, because my mom had me at 17 and my dad was not really in my life. He, I'm dealt with substance abuse, substance and alcohol abuse, and so he was not in my life. Consistently at all until I was an adult. My grandparents and my mom kind of like co-parented me, so they took on that role. So like looking back, it's like easier because my mom would have episodes of like where she was doing really, really good. And then episodes of struggle. Back then, I didn't have the words for it, but I learned during the process that my mom would struggle with mental illness. And I say that because looking back as a child, you don't know that you don't have the words. And I don't believe that my grandparent, they're from the south. My grandma was born in Arkansas, but raised in Gary, but my grandfather from Arkansas, like I don't think they had the words of mental illness or any of these things, but looking back now that I have it, I was like, oh yeah, that auntie had it, that one had it and that had it. And so I think they just thought, she's just difficult. She just needs to get up. She just needs to do these things. She did have episodes of like deep depression, all of those things. So depending on where she was, so by childhood itself was kind of like up and neck depending on where her mental health was. But I always had my grandparents as like a safe landing place. So with that, once I became an adult, there were different parts where like, my mom is tripping or whatever, I'm not going to talk to her. And the big estrangement happened after the pandemic. My mom during the pandemic was sick. Like I said, I live in dc she lives in Michigan. She came to visit right before we shut down in February. So she came in January and I saw her health wasn't that great and I was like, what's going on? Like, I don't understand. And then during the pandemic, during the shutdown, she was sick and she ended up having to go to the hospital and almost died. It was like fluid retention. She was having heart issues, like all of this stuff. And so I flew, I was finishing up my school psychology program, but I flew back home. I helped her with, you know, she had to go to the hospital, then rehab hospital and then discharged. So when she was being discharged, I went to go to all her doctor's appoint to figure out what was going on and all of that. And then, like I said, just trying to navigate it. Then when we came back, I was working through it and my grandmother, so that was May of 2021, I believe my grandmother passed away and. September. So her mother passed away September, I think, second or third of 2021. So we kind of like, we're trying to figure that out and I knew that she was struggling mentally, like, you know, but we all were struggling with the matriarch of our family passing after that. Like I started hearing some things and I was like, well, what's going on in Michigan? But I'm like super focused because I'm trying to finish my internship so that I can graduate. And then that's the Michigan week. I'm hearing some things, some things are happening. I'm like, I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on. And so then I started again hearing things about my mom, asking people for money and I'm like, what is going on? Why is she asking people for money? What is happening here? And so then when I confronted her about it, and she was like, no, people are lying. Like, you know, all of this. And so then I talked to my brother. My brother said that one of his friends told him that our mom owed him thousands of dollars. And I'm like, what? I don't understand this. And she was calling me constantly for money and I'm like, what am I paying for? Like what is going on? Well, we ended up that December getting COVID myself, my husband and my son, and that was our first time having COVID and it was like the worst experience ever. And my mom like is spiraling. And I remember just being like, I just can't handle this. I was having health problems, like just not with the COVID, but just with the grief and then trying to finish this internship. My research that I could like defend all of this stuff. And I was just like, mom, I just, I just need you to stop. I just need you to like be a mom. I just need you to support me. And she couldn't. It was just all this, just like I said, money calling constantly. Sometimes she would call me like 10 or 13 times a day and I'm like, I'm working. What's going on? Like I said, now looking back, she was at a manic episode, but. Then I didn't know that because I didn't know she had this diagnosis. And so I basically had to tell her mom like, I have to take a break because I have to focus on my health. Like my family is sick and this is still when people were dying. We in our family had lost people to COVID like close to us and I'm like, I really have to focus on this. I like I have, I'm trying to graduate. I'm morning grandma two, all of these things. And that seemed to be. The straw that broke the camel's back because she from there by wrote even more to like verbal harassment, social media harassment, internet harassment, telling people to call me, contact me, posting. I remember one post she made on social media where she said like, you owe me. I could have flushed you down the toilet. And so for you to ignore me, who are you? To do that. Who are you? I'm trying to get my grandfather and I'm like, Hey, somebody needs to help me. I don't know what to do. She's lashing out at the whole family. It was just really, really hard. I blocked her number. She would call and leave me long voicemails somewhere. She's like yelling and screaming and this, and then others where she's just sobbing and like, I need you. I don't know what to do. Like I'm gonna die. I don't know what to do. And so I'm like, she's not well mentally I have to do something. And so I would call and like try, like I said, try to get other people involved trying to figure this out. I basically got help, like my husband is in tech, so we, he told me like how I could petition to get her Facebook page taken down or suspended so that at least she couldn't harass people because it wasn't just me. She's harassing all their family members and all this stuff. Then they're calling me and they're like, Jennifer, what are you gonna do? Like, your mom is doing this, your mom is doing that, and I'm like, I don't know what to do. So I'm like trying to figure it out and I'm like, okay, what I need to do is I need to get her hospitalized because she's spiraling like all of these things. And so I am calling the police, like I'm trying to navigate the mental health system in Michigan. Which I didn't really know. And so that was that piece of it. And so we went no contact because like I was not speaking to her. That was the estrangement. But what I did tell my grandfather, my grandfather's still living, he's 96. He turned 96 in December. But he is like, I just need you to help me because I've always been like kind of over my mom's healthcare. 'cause I'm just a curious person by nature. They call it nosy but curious. And so I'm like, I will never. Not manage her healthcare, like in terms of her health or anything like that. I will always be on that. However, I have to protect myself. And what's happening is, is that she's causing like a lot of havoc in my life that just like, I don't know, with this string of harassment that she's doing that just, and so that was it. So it's like trying to get adult protective services involved, try to see what's going on, what's going on with her. And so that's what like kind of led to that estrangement. And then I was finally, I guess that was December and late January that month, six weeks was hell. I was finally able to get her hospitalized where they hospitalized her and kept her, and they sent her from Michigan to Indiana to a mental hospital to get assessed. And that's where she finally, I finally learned that her diagnoses were. Bipolar disorder and she had bipolar disorder, mood disorder, and then they diagnosed her with PTSD from my grandma passing, and they also said like a, I forget what the social worker, I think, said that she had like obsession with sex or something.

Okay. That's like a response to everything,

but that took a lot. It was like they had to trust the law enforcement system, which was not easy. But I have to give it to like the Battle Creek police. Like no one ever did anything to her to harm her. And they actually talked to me and was like, and gave me advice. And like one police officer, like she seems like she's going through dementia. She seems like she's, and I would tell them, I'm just trying to, because I was honest. I live in DC my brother lives in North Carolina. We're just trying to figure out like how to support our mom. Like how do we get adult protective services involved. To at least like help us get access to resources, because I know like as a mental health provider here in DC that there's access to certain resources that are locked behind a wall that, you know, like if you don't have money, you can't get it. And like, and so sometimes even though you look at, people look like at Adult Protective Services or Child Protective Services as punitive, sometimes behind that call is access to resources or money to resources or things like that. And so that's kind of like the position that I took.

Oh, that's a lot. That's rough. So sorry for the loss of your grandma, which was probably closer to a mom than a grandma for you.

Definitely, definitely.

Yeah. That's rough.

Yeah, it was. And especially 'cause I think my mom, she was her guiding light and so even when my mom struggled mentally, I think my grandma was always able to like help bring her back. Right. And so not having that was very hard for her. Then not knowing how to do it myself was hard, and it was like really interesting because it's like in an instant I had to, it's like a level of grow up that you don't realize when your matriarch passes away, right? Like in a blink of an eye. You have to like grow up in a way that I'm like, oh, I didn't think this was going to land on my lap or on my shoulders. And so. I said once I finally, an incident happened where my mom was in a blizzard. It was like a blizzard in Michigan and she's outside, like walking around and someone called the police. And so I think that's what led to her potentially getting hospitalized. 'cause they thought that she was like a danger. And then when she was hospitalized, she was like throwing things at nurses, like all types of foolishness. Like I said, they sent her to, um, Indiana and then got her, I was trying to manage her healthcare there. I was like, okay, if we can get her home health aid and some other things. But she hadn't been to the doctor like she was supposed to, and so her doctor had left the practice. My mom was on, um, Michigan Medicaid, and so the practice wouldn't sign off on certain paperwork that the insurance needed, so then we had to get her, which I was like, this is another thing like that. This whole process really made me think about like how with aging parents, it's so hard to just navigate the system. But we know that she has physical health problems, she has mental health concerns and diagnoses, and so you're telling me that you want her to make all these appointments herself, get to all these appointments herself so that she can get the help that she needs.

It's not gonna happen.

Well, and I'm like in hundreds of miles away and my brother's even further in North Carolina, and this person has burned all these bridges with in her episodes. Where people are like scared to be around her 'cause they don't know how she's gonna react. Is this a good day? Is this a bad day? Like what is this gonna be? Once she was released from the hospital and she was taking her medicine consistently because my grandfather, there's nothing else. He was on top of that. Make sure you're taking your medicine, make sure you're doing this, make sure you're doing that. And she was, because she was like, I guess she was, she was a lot more stable there. But I think when burning those bridges and not being able to repair them. Left her in a situation where the only people you can depend on are people who are using you as well.

Oh yeah, I can see that.

Yeah, and so I would talk, so once my mom, so that was like February-ish, so I talked to my mom like, you know, at least once a month probably, but I still wasn't, once I knew that she was kind of like stable. I talked, well, I said back, I didn't talk to her immediately. I was like, I didn't still get my space. I'll talk to her after graduation. So I graduated that June, and then after that June, that's when I was like, okay, at least we can start to have these conversations. At least open the door to see what can happen to that. Because I did know, like from my grandfather, and even talking to like a couple of her friends, because she had like some really good friends that she has since like elementary school, they're like, well, you know, your mom is more stable. She asks about you all the time, like she really wants to know that you're good. And then my brother spoke to her as well. And so like I said, June, July, we were talking at least once a month, but I still was kind of like, I don't know, 'cause I don't want her to start asking me for stuff or, you know, wanting me to do stuff for her. I was very nervous about like reentering this relationship, trying to protect myself and my marriage because my marriage suffered in the midst of this. 'cause my husband's like, I don't know what to do. Like this is a lot. What do we do? Like I can't tell you not to take care of your mother. Which he said, he's like, I can't tell you not to take care of your mother, but I have to protect our son. And so I don't want him to see this. I don't want him to think this stuff, this type of behavior is, is normal. So he is like, I'll never say you can't. Look after your mom or do for your mom, but I'm just saying how often our son gets involved in this. That's where I'm gonna kind of put my foot down, which I, I respect it because there's a lot of things I come along with. I think, like I said, looking back now, being raised in a house with someone who struggled with mental illness and now like I said, things are so clear because my mom used to say growing up, oh, God knew we needed an adult in the house. That's why he gave me you.

Ooh. Okay. So you were put in the parent role very early?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And so like, I'm making sure bills are paid. I'm like helping with this. And I remember like things getting shut off because my mom would forget to pay them or she would go into depressive episodes and not go to work and lose jobs. And that's where I guess God like dialed because the blessing of my grandparents was that my grandparents owned the house that we lived in. That's great. So there was never a situations that have had issues of homelessness and things like that, but we didn't because my grandparents owned the house. And so there was also a lot of times where we were asked to keep secrets for my grandparents. Were like, because she don't wanna hear them complain, so don't tell them that the water got cut off. I'll figure it out. Or don't tell them that this happened, don't let them know this. And I'm like, okay. So then it's like me especially, 'cause like I said, we co-parented. I used to go back and forth, go to my mom and my grandma's house. My grandparents house often even 'cause like for most of my childhood, we live next door to each other honestly. And so it's like, how am I supposed to not tell this? How am I not supposed to do this? Or even when our water got cut off one time and we were using the water hose from my grandparents' house, like fill up buckets and do this type of thing or whatever, and like sneaking to do these things. And the one time I was finally like, I'm not doing this anymore because I called my grandfather and my father and I'm like, daddy, we ain't got no water over there. He's like, wait, what? What happened? No, this is foolishness. And went and paid the bill immediately. And he is like, you never have to suffer like that again. You tell me. And so, you know, those types of things.

Yeah. You had a lot of protection built in.

Yeah, all the time. All the time. And it's interesting because sometimes you block those things out, like it's actually a blessing.

Yeah.

Because as I got older, but in raising my son who's 11

Yeah.

And as he's going through certain. And I'm like, where was I then? And they're like, then certain memories are coming back to me. And I'm like, huh, okay. Yeah. Hmm. I didn't remember that, but this, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Motherhood will do that to you. Yes, all the time. I was like parenting him, like reparenting myself while reparenting myself, and then just realizing, oh yeah, what I did was not, that wasn't normal, like none of this is normal. But it just kind of seemed that way. But like I said, when my mom was not in a episode or like spiraling, she's a really great person. Again, I think that's what helped her to maneuver as long as she did because she was like with one, she was great cook, great bake, great personality, really good to talk to. I'm extremely like loving even a lot of our friends and stuff, like she had their own independent surrogate relationships with them because like very accepting. Probably because like he knew it from a different perspective, right? Of a lot of things. Yeah. Like and so we spent a lot of time together like just talking and she never would let a day, not a day, very long go without letting people know how she felt about them or like how she admired them. Like, I really admire how you this. She also was extremely well read, loved my. A lot of my love of like reading comes from her. Certain movies come from her music. Like there's always music in our household. We played a lot of games together and so I think that's what probably helped her maintain these relationships for so long. And I think that also helped because in some situations with people, when you have estrangement you're like, oh, this person was like so horrible to me. But like the, I couldn't say that my mom was like horrible to me all the time. For the most part, my mom was. You know, she was like, she did the best that she could. I could always say that, even if I'm like, okay, she could have done better than she could have done this. And then like if other people like would say, oh, that's not normal. But you know, like there were so many other great qualities that made up for that. And so I think that's what led to the estrangement just being so short, was because it's like I stopped because she was in the middle of an episode and then after I graduated, I'm like nervous. To like start this relationship again. But my mom is a great mom and I do love her and care about her, and I want her to know that she's cared about, like we talk about anything, like she's a really great person. So we spoke for about a month, like I said, every month. It was very, when we started in like July or August, once a month, sometimes a little bit more frequently, but mostly like once a month. I actually still have her blocked so she can call me. I can only call her. Okay. So this is a part of like

going into repair.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. Before we go that direction, tell me quickly, how did she respond to being hospitalized? Did she know that you were the person that set that in motion and like what was their response to that?

Oh yeah. She knew. She's like, you can't call. She would say all the time, oh, you can't call your mom bitch, you can call the police on me. I used to weaponize, who are you? This and the police. To my house. I'm a black woman. They could kill me

and mean, in reality, that's, that's a valid fear.

I mean, it's a valid fear. It's a huge fear, but when you don't know what to do, but to call the police, I was like, I didn't know because I mean, the other person, I dunno what she's going to do. I don't know. I was like really against or up against the wall because I was just like, I just don't know what to do. I remember at one point standing in the. Frozen? No, like the dairy section. I think it was the dairy section of the grocery store. And I'm getting a call, uh, like about my mom or something, and I was like, you know what? If she don't wanna go to the hospital, maybe I will, maybe I should check myself in because this is just too much. I just don't know what to do. And I'm just standing there and I'm like, I don't get peace from any direction that I'm looking for. Like, there's no peace for me because. She's telling everyone that she's dying and I am ignoring her in order to get sympathy. She's like putting these things on social media and the internet about me and making people think things about me and I'm getting phone calls and messages and you know, all of that. Then she's harassing other people. So other people are like, you need to get your mom. Why is your mom acting like this? And all of that. And I'm like, part of me is like, why aren't they calling my brother? He's like, call him. I get it. Eldest daughter, which is a whole nother conversation, but I'm like, call him, tell him. Let him do something.

But I remember you essentially started feeling, for lack of better words, this is not my favorite word, but like crazy to wanna check yourself in. I'm gonna imagine emotionally and mentally, you were just not feeling yourself or feeling sane any longer. Now, and mind you, at this time, I'm still

a wife, I'm a mother, and I'm completing my internship and doing my research so that I could graduate from this school psychology program. 'cause I had. Go and I'm turning 40 all are around the same time. I was like, you know what, maybe I, maybe I need a nice stay at a state institution. I dunno, what do they call it? Online, grippy stock vacation Maybe. Maybe I need a nice padded room. I don't know what these learn look like. I, maybe I need this.

Okay.

And I remember feeling like if she won't go, I'll go. And then I don't have to get phone calls, I don't have to get emails.

It's a way of getting away from it. I get it. Yeah.

Yeah. It's an escape. All of the madness, for lack of a better word, that was in my life.

Did her anger or just disappointment or being upset that you would call the police on her? Did that go away or change once she came out of the hospital when she like went home or was she still upset with you?

That's a good question because when she came home, I didn't communicate with her.

Oh, okay. Okay.

I do know that she did. She would communicate with my brother and she would say to my brother, tell your sister I'm okay. She can call me.

Okay. So she may have been in a better place and maybe accepted what you did as something she needed? Possibly.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think so, because I was like around February and then I didn't speak to her via phone till July,

so about six months.

Yeah, about six months. So I think by that point when I talked to her, I could tell that she had in therapy, by the way, that she, congratulations on your graduation. Like you deserved it. You worked hard. I'm okay. I'm taking my medicine. Like, you know, how are you, how is your son? Like, the conversation was very, very different. And so I could tell that she had been in therapy.

Okay. Which is great, you know, proud of her for that.

How did repair

begin? I'm going to assume you made the first step because you're the one who wasn't speaking to her. So how did you guys get on a path to repairing the relationship?

So what happened was I was going to Michigan to visit my grandfather because we hadn't seen him since. My grandma had passed away and my grandfather and my mom lived next door to each other and we stayed with my grandfather. And so I knew I needed to talk to her to at least be like, listen, we're here. But right now we're not gonna see you. Even though you're next door. We're not gonna come over. We're not gonna do that. We're just here to check on Daddy. And then, you know, and so when we got to Michigan that July, I did talk to her on the phone and I was like, Hey. And so we had that conversation. I was like, you know, we're just trying to check on Daddy. And so we're just here for a couple of days. We weren't there very long. I think maybe like a long weekend. I was like, we're just here to check on Daddy and make sure she, he's good here. Because at that time my grandfather was living by himself and I was like, yeah, just make sure he is doing all right. And you know, spent some time with him and she's like, no, no, no. That's a good, that's a good idea. That's a good thing. And so I was like, okay. Because at that time he was like 90, 91. So that conversation went well and I think she was still hoping to see us or something. 'cause we were next door because she was like, well, I'm not gonna be able to make anything for you 'cause my kitchen is being like constructed. Because that was another part was that. She would go have these grand ideas and hire people who were not legit to do projects on her house, maybe not finished. And so my grandfather, when she was in the hospital, took a look at the house, saw the condition, and was like fixing it up to make it, like to get it back to a better point. And so the kit kitchen was still under construction or like for remodeling or whatever at that point. And so after that, we spoke, like I said, I still had her blocked, but we spoke. Maybe like once a month-ish. Yeah, about once a month or so. Yeah, until maybe around like December or January.

And what were those just like kind of logistical checking in conversations or were you guys really connecting?

I mean like, definitely checking in because I mean, like, I think there's a thing was when you have this big estrangement, or not est like breakdown where the person had. Some of the messages that she left me and things like that. There's definitely fear of putting myself back out there to her because I'm like, is she really taking her medicine? Like how do I really know this? All of this stuff, because again, I'm not there day to day. I'm living in dc she's in Michigan. But it was hopefully, I'm like, well, tell me what's going on. And I would tell her about like what was happening with us, what was happening with my son? 'cause one of the things I know like, like my mom loved being a grandma or nana. She love her grandkids. My brother has seven kids. I have one, but she like, that's the thing. She loves her grandkids. Loves her grandkids. So from about July to December, we're speaking about once a month. Then I got a call from one of the mother of my brother's oldest daughter about like somebody staying in my mom's house or something and leaving some kids. And I'm like, who is this? So I talked to my brother and my brother's like, I don't know. So I call my mom. And I was like, who left the kids? She was like, oh wow. I have this girl staying with me. It's really helpful because, you know, she helps me out and you know, the kids are here, but she's, she goes to work, she leaves the kids here and I'm like, okay. Past, my mom has done, like on the black community, you'll have a trusted elder. Watch the kids. And so my mom has done that in the past where people would like leave their kids, you know, or she watches people's kids while they work, like third shift or, you know, second shift or something while school's, or while school's out. And so like that part of, okay, maybe. Then I'm trying to get to my brother and he is like, no, these kids are older and apparently she hasn't been home for a week. The mother, and they think the mother's in a hotel doing drugs or something. So I was like, oh, all of this sounds crazy to me. So then I'm like, oh my gosh, are we in the middle of another spiral?

Yeah. You get scared of her mental state.

Right? Her mental state. 'cause I was like talking to her. It didn't sound like that, right? It didn't sound. It just sounded like she's having people come over. I don't know. And so the mother of my brother's, oldest daughter helped with getting the girl to come get her kids and getting the kids out the house, like whatever. And I guess from that point on, she was like, well, I will help keep an eye on the house and on your mom so that these things, you know, like we don't have the situation again. Which I felt like was really helpful because I'm like, okay, then at least somebody's in the house. With eyes and ears where we don't believe somebody's taking advantage of her and we can make sure she's taking her medicine and all of these things. But then at that point, I started getting messages from my oldest niece, sometimes, not often. I think I got like two about my mom's physical health, and I'm like, well, have you been going to the doctor? And so then that's when I felt like, okay, now I'm having to step more into managing your health role, like parentified role. And I would ask. I'm like, why are you going to the doctor? Are you supposed to? Well, yes, Jennifer, which I could tell was like annoying to her. 'cause when I'm starting to ask questions, I'm like, I can interrogate. I'm like, so what did the doctor say about this? So you don't need to be on oxygen anymore. No. They said, I didn't need to be on oxygen. I was like, where's the report? So like, your heart's better. Like how does this happen? So did they come get the machine? Because they don't normally leave the machine if you need oxygen peppering. It's like, no, I don't need this. No, I didn't need, I thought you needed a test at University of Michigan. No, I don't need that test. What do you mean you don't need this? So they told you you need a test that you don't need anymore. All of these things. All of these things. And so asked these questions and I was like, you know what? I'm stepping out of it. And I asked my brother, can you just step in because I feel like we're rebuilding our relationship and if I have to step in in this way, it is just going to cause more of a breakdown.

Right? She's at the point where she needs more of a caregiver, maybe not like. You know, a babysitter, but she does need some help with managing her care and her health, but she's not at a point of really accepting that she may be. At that stage she was not. So if you continue on, then that can place you guys back into possibly harming the relationship again. Yes,

definitely. That's how I felt.

Yeah. And this is where you guys are now?

No. So where we are now, well. So that was February. My mom like had some health issues or like, no, it was a big blizzard machine, this, wherever it was, and my mom stayed in the house and said that the power went out because the ice was on the lines. My mom went out or my mom didn't go to the hotel with the rest of the family. And I'm like, why are you in the house? She's like, oh, it's not that code. It's not that code. So then I was like, this doesn't make sense to me. I couldn't get in touch with her for a few days. And then she's like, yeah, you know, it was cold. I should've like, if it was a couple more days, I would've had to go to the hotel. I was like, okay. So then she told me, I think I should go to the hospital, and I was like, okay. She went to the hospital and the hospital called me and told me that my mom basically had been ignoring her physical health and she. I was actively dying. And so I was like, wait, what? And they were like, and your mom has chosen to go into palliative care because she does not want to, you know, like there are certain things, like certain ways she does not want to live her life. And so that was at beginning of March and so I was, this was, um, 2023. I was like, okay, so then let's, I guess figure out like what this means. I just didn't know. 'cause I'm like, I just talked to my mom. Mom's fine. Like, and she was actively dying. They asked me like, would I be okay making decisions based on what she wanted and not what I wanted. And I was like, well, whatever she wants, whatever she wants is what we'll do. And so honestly, I'm trying to remember like details. I know that actively. Her health was like declining. Her oxygen saturation levels were declining. Her lungs and her heart were really damaged. And then once they took a look, they said actually her, like all of the health problems that she had had basically. Started impacting her kidneys. And so once that happens, there's only so much longer. I remember she was like just in the hospital and then I was actually chaperoning a field trip to my son's school and I was like, okay, what we'll do is like, I'm still trying to figure out, because I still don't understand a hundred percent what was going on. So I was like, okay, well we're gonna try to figure out how to move her to North Carolina and get her in hospice care in North Carolina. But then my aunt was like, well, no, she ain't just stay in Michigan. I'll just put my job and I'll just take care of her. And we were like, okay. Um, I was chaperoning a trip to my, some school on Monday and they were like, okay, we'll talk to, try to figure out like what we can do, what the next steps are. Tuesday, I got a call and they were like, yeah, there are no next steps. If you wanna see your mom alive, you have to come now. And so Wednesday morning I was on a flight to Michigan to see my mom and I saw her. Of course, like I, it was straight from the airport to the hospital and they basically told us, okay, at this point this is what's happening. So what do you want? I was making calls to like all of her, um, close friends and like, if you wanna see my mom, you need to see her. But I had been to kind of doing that before when they told me what palliative care was. And I just like, and I had Googled it. 'cause like they never really explained this to you. Right. And so like I Googled it and I was like, okay, I was calling family members. I was, all of these things. I'm like, hey. You need to see my mom, like go check on my mom. Go do this. Especially my great aunts. My grandma was like one of 17 kids, so like I have a large, a lot of aunts that are still living aunts and uncles, and so they were like, okay. So a bunch of her cousins and stuff came to see her and her aunts and I was able to get some of her childhood friends to come in, see her and spend some time with her. And I got there on Wednesday at four and by Thursday at. One, my mom was dead. I was there with her though. I told her, like when we talked, our goal was always to make sure that she felt comfortable and loved. She told me, or she felt loved. She felt loved. And I was like, well, then I wanna make sure you feel comfortable. And so when she passed away, she was in a room full of loved ones. And I, the last thing I said to my mom, we saw her heart rate dropping and stuff. And I was like, then it went back up, it spiked and I just came over and I just like was rubbing her leg and I was like, it's okay, mommy. It's okay. You're good. Just relax. Like we're here. We love you. And then her heart popped.

That happened so quickly. Yeah,

it was a, it was so fast from everything. It was hard because losing two of my major, because it hadn't even been, it was barely. Two years was like a year and a half since my grandma had passed, and then I lost my mom. And so this year it'll be like, I guess five years since my grandma passed, and in March it'll be three years that my mom passed.

I'm so sorry for that loss.

Thank you.

You really were thrown into the matriarch position when your grandma passed.

Yeah, I did. I was, but even though it's not like a traditional like. Reunification or reconnection and oh, and then now you have this happy relationship. I will say that for the time that my mom had left, she felt loved and I knew she loved me no matter what happened. And the throes of all this stuff and like all the whatever, my mom knew I loved her and I knew she loved me, and I know that she showed me her love, the best way that she knew how and sometimes. That love was like overwhelming and it felt good, and sometimes it felt bad, but depending on where she was in her mental state. But I'm thankful that we were in a position where it was good. Like the love felt good when she took her last breath, and she was able to repair, you know, like we were able to, not just with me, but with other people, with her sister, with her brother, with other people who were harmed. By her behavior or words or whatever. It was good.

Yeah. And even though it wasn't a traditional repair, what it sounds like is there wasn't enough time left for a like traditional full repair.

Oh yeah. No. Unfortunately because of the physical health things that were being ignored, it just didn't happen.

I bet with more time that could have turned into something. Much more positive.

Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. But I'm not like, I mean, I think one of the things, like I said, having enough time passed, like since she transitioned to be an ancestor helps. But the other piece of it is, is that living without her anchor was so hard, which is my mom, or which was my grandma, that like I just. Part of it was like, I'm glad that they are reunited in that way 'cause she's back with her anchor. Right. And then the other piece of it is, is that in my like, quiet time recently, 'cause I have like, like ebbs and flows of these things is like I honor the ending, how it happened, and I honor that. And no matter what. I can say like, because who knows, with all the other health stuff that was going on and you know, like all of this other stuff. And then especially when it comes to like aging parents and like there's conflicts that come along with that. I don't know, like there could have been other conflicts that just arise because like when you're caring for aging parents, there are a lot of things that go along with it. And so I'm glad that we were able to. I honor the ending that was, I didn't necessarily have to be her caregiver at the end. Yeah, I was able to like affirm, but she was still able to make all of her own decisions. Until then end. It wasn't a situation where I had to make a decision whether to pull the plug where I had to make decisions with this, where I had to make, I didn't have to. The, like, there was no more, uh, parentification. She was able to make all those decisions on her own. And so like I honor that and I'm actually thankful that she was able to get her power back in some way and that, if that makes sense of like making decisions about her life herself while she was like of, I hate the term of your right mind, but of her right mind,

yeah. There's a lot of protection in that for you.

Definitely. And so I'm thankful. And so that's why I say I, I have to thank her. Thank God I'll do that for her, for that piece of it that she was able to do that.

Well, I don't have any questions left, but I wanna know, what would you like to leave the listener with that they can take away from this? So it can be a message on grief or losing two parent figures within, I mean, a short amount of time. It's years, but two years is very quick. To lose two parent figures or even just repairing and like reconnecting. What do you wanna leave the listener with?

I think just acknowledging that your parent is human and that they do the best that they can with what they have. I definitely know, like everything that I have, I'm standing on the shoulders of and sacrifices of my mom and my grandma. I do know that if my mom, like I said, like, like there's a lot of mental health struggles there. I do know that my mom was proud of me. I do know that, like I know she loved me. I knew all these things. I just know that, and I know that if she could have done differently, she would have done differently. And so I think sometimes you have to see them for who they are, truly who they are, and not as your parent, but as the woman that they are. And as the woman that they're, they like we all fall short. Right? And so that's just a part of it. But I think like. Removing, like, and just looking at my mom as like who she was and all of that stuff. I'm actually proud of the person that she was and the life that she was able to lead. Um, given the fact that she was like, I mean, she died at 59. She struggled with mental illness and then some substance abuse and things like that. Nature as she was able to do as much as she can, as she was able to love as much as she could. Her legacy is as. As strong as it is.

Thank you so much for sharing her with us and sharing your story.

Oh, no problem.

That's all for today's episode of the Mother-Daughter Relationship Show. Thanks so much for spending this time with me. I hope you picked up some valuable insights that you can start using right away in your own relationship to create deeper connection and understanding. If something from today's episode resonated with you, don't keep it to yourself. Share it with the mother or daughter in your life who needs to hear this message. And while you're at it, please consider leaving a rating. And review so we can reach more families and transform the way mothers and daughters relate to each other. For those ready to take the next step, you can visit my website to learn more about my private coaching programs and my program designed specifically for mother-daughter pairs. Whether you're dealing with communication challenges, life transitions, or just wanna strengthen an already good relationship, I'm here to help. Thank you so much for listening. I'll see you in the next one.