Perry Maughmer [00:00:00]:

Well, welcome to The Relentless Few Podcast. I'm your host, Perry Maughmer, and today we're on the last final episode of our E3 series. So we've covered Explore, we covered experiment. Now we're going to talk about evaluation. And it's. It's kind of funny, and I'll kind of mention it at some point towards the end here, I've actually Revised the. The E3 to be E4 because I. I determined there was a step missing that made sense, and so may or may not get into that, but as always, it's always an evolution.

Perry Maughmer [00:00:34]:

So today we're going to talk about evaluate. And evaluate really is talking about how do we look back without judgment, and how do we look at our own actions that reveal us and our story? And the thing is, it's not about finding fault or assigning praise. It's about uncovering the reality of our choices. And to evaluate really means to make sense of your experiences without letting judgment cloud your view. It's about seeing the truth of your actions without immediately labeling them good or bad. Because when we do that, when we're unable to. Which we're unable to bracket our assumptions, and bracketing is a term out of phenomenology, and it really means, can we set aside our assumptions about a thing or an experience or a person or. And just see the thing as it is, see the phenomena itself? And that's really.

Perry Maughmer [00:01:27]:

What we're trying to do, is we're trying to see what's real without flinching, you know, without kind of squinting, without any kind of reaction, because that will enable us to really take that information and do something with it. Because evaluation is not about forcing meaning, but it's about recognizing the reality of what is. We don't want to impose our meaning on the result. That's the challenge when we evaluate. Because if we're. There's a difference between evaluating and judging. We're all really good at judging, but judging creates a problem because it kills curiosity and prevents learning. Because if I'm judging something, that means I'm.

Perry Maughmer [00:02:09]:

I know if something's right or wrong, good or bad. And once I do that, if I. If I judge that it's bad or that it's wrong, then. Then I can't learn. So judging actually prevents learning. And it. And in the other flip side of this, it promotes shame. Because once I get.

Perry Maughmer [00:02:26]:

Once I judge even. And I'm talking about how we do this for ourselves, because we're going to explore, we're going to experiment, and we're Going to evaluate. We're going to evaluate what's there. Once I start evaluating, if I'm judging it, if I'm, if I'm imposing a story on it about my own, you know, goodness or badness, then I'm promoting shame, which again, is going to shut me off and shut me down and not allow me to see the thing as it sits. And it's really. This is evaluation at the truest sense, is being able to practice seeing things without layering on stories of success or failure. And it's, It's a hard thing to do. It's a hard thing to do for everybody else.

Perry Maughmer [00:03:04]:

It's actually the hardest yet to do for ourselves, because we are not. A lot of times I don't think we're cognizant that we're doing it. It's just part of the, of our inner, inner dialogue, our inner monologue, actually. If you want to count the dialogue between you and the voice in your head as a dialogue and not a monologue, that's up to you. You know, you can do what you want. So the other thing to remember here is before we start the whole evaluation process, we can't evaluate in a vacuum. And so that leads me to just touching on. We want to have a direction, not a destination.

Perry Maughmer [00:03:38]:

Okay? So for those that have been around the podcast for a while, you know my issue with goals, and I think that that's what I'll call a destination. Direction is imperative. Destination is empty or oppressive, one of the two, right? So by the way, and because what I mean is in its filled, destination to me is actually filled with a lack of humility and hubris, right? Because there's ego in selecting a destination in today's world because of the volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous nature of the world we live in. For us to have the hubris to think that we can select a goal that we can reach regardless of anything around us, to me is just steeped in ego. Now, direction, whole other thing, like I can tell you which direction I want to head. The destination will remain fluid because I'll learn along the way. Again, I want you to think about this, that once we set a goal, it shuts off any learning. It shuts off our curiosity because we're locked onto the goal, right? And we often mistake at that point productivity for progress.

Perry Maughmer [00:04:52]:

So evaluation without direction is really self judgment or just noise. And then we end up measuring it against cultural scripts and not our own movement. And so really what I want to think about is what direction, because direction is internal and it's anchored in what matters to you. Then evaluation becomes almost a sacred check in. Like, am I heading the right direction? Am I aligned with who I say I want to become? Am I living in congruence with what I care deeply about? Am I writing this story or just reading a script? And to me, that's the difference between destination and direction. Direction being really imperative, destination being something we can do without, because direction doesn't constrain us, it frees us to be intentional. That's what direction does. Destination restrains us, because now we have one thing, and all other things go aside because we're maniacally focused on that one thing.

Perry Maughmer [00:05:55]:

And so to make room for this kind of work, for destination, not direction, we have to discard things like our goal fixation and replace that with a directional intention and get rid of framework, collecting frameworks, and then replace that with lived experimentation. Because this is solely your journey and only you can take it. Get rid of things like developmental performance, you know, performative development, and replace it with a private, honest reckoning that takes place within you. Get rid of certainty seeking and replace that with curiosity and courageous choices. And then really get rid of ownership as a finish line. And we'll talk about this a little more maybe, and replace it with authorship as an ongoing act. Because there is a big difference between ownership and authorship. And I think it's really important because I think we all strive to own our behavior.

Perry Maughmer [00:06:43]:

We talk a lot about owning our behavior, being accountable, and ownership and having that ownership mentality. But to me there's a subtle danger in that, because ownership becomes a finish line. It's an end state, right? And that's what's important, because it implies something fixed, a claim over something that already is. It can easily become defensive and static and even self righteous. Whereas authorship keeps that story alive. It invites iteration, creativity, responsibility, not just for what has been, but before, what comes next. It implies I have agency in the present and accountability to the future. It doesn't just accept what is, it builds on what could be.

Perry Maughmer [00:07:30]:

And so that actually is. Is kind of central to my point of adding the fourth E, which is edit. Because once we explore and experiment and evaluate, then we have the opportunity to edit, because that gives us a sense of agency to rewrite, to. To rewrite the narrative that's in our head. But that's for another time. So we get back to evaluating. Evaluating really is about seeing the imperfections as part of the whole, not flaws to be erased. So when we evaluate, we're looking at the Whole thing, we're looking at all of it.

Perry Maughmer [00:08:05]:

We're not trying to pick out what's good or bad. We're looking at the entire experience, the entire experiment, and we're seeing what went well and what didn't go well. And reflection is about embracing that entirety, not isolating, just the mistakes. And too often, I have to say, you know, having done. Done this work for a decade now and talked with, you know, hundreds of people about these types of things, too often, reflection, the only discussion we want to have is about what went wrong. In fact, that's the only time we actually look at anything if it went well, if it. If it. If it exceeded our expectations, or just if it met or exceeded our expectations.

Perry Maughmer [00:08:46]:

We rarely even talk about it. We don't even. We don't even go back and analyze that or see what went well, what didn't go well. If. If it went well, we just move on to the next thing. And there's a. There's a true danger in that. There really is, because we're not.

Perry Maughmer [00:09:02]:

We're not evaluating anything at that point. We're just assuming we did everything right, which is usually far from true. Right. So when we go back, if we get in the habit of analyzing everything, the entire experience, we don't just critique what went wrong. We reflect on the entire experience and understanding how each action, each. If you want to use a musical term, each note contributed to the piece. If we look at all of those pieces and we're able to step back and objectively look at how those things were, not assigning blame, not assigning. Not giving kudos to anybody.

Perry Maughmer [00:09:36]:

Not the point. The point is to objectively look at what happened. There's so much learning to be had, and so we miss it. And part of this is, is that we. Since we don't normalize this type of activity, feedback becomes an issue. Because the. I'm not gonna say always, but the majority of the time, the only feedback we're giving anybody is when something goes wrong. So if someone comes up to you and says, hey, I want to talk about that last project.

Perry Maughmer [00:10:04]:

I want to talk about that job that finished over there. I want to talk about that. That pitch that you did, typically, that connotes something that didn't go well, right? So now we've. We've not normalized feedback. So now what happens is the very act of somebody mentioning this becomes defensive. So we don't want to evaluate. We're not prone to evaluating our own behavior because we shy away from what we. Again, this is all Perception.

Perry Maughmer [00:10:33]:

We shy away from what went wrong. We shy away from things that didn't go well because there's so quickly shame attached to it. Blame and shame are attached to it. So now we avoid it. That's the challenge. The challenge is be able to normalize that process, normalize that thought that you have in your head about evaluating what happened. Bracket all of those assumptions that you have about yourself and other people and just look at the thing that happened, the phenomenon, you know, the singular, the phenomena, whatever happened. Just look at that thing, look at that entire process, that event, and just look at it for what it was, not the story you're putting on it.

Perry Maughmer [00:11:15]:

So here are some reflective prompts, maybe that'll help you see without judging, right? So number one would be own your experience. So think of a moment where, where you felt you didn't show up the way you wanted to. Can you, Is it possible that you can look at that moment without labeling it as a failure? Just, just look at it and say what actually happened? And then the second question, what did you learn about yourself? Not good or bad. Just what did you learn about yourself? There is no good or bad learning, right? So if you look at a situation, anything that happened that you have a memory of in the past recently where you said, I didn't show up the way I wanted to. Now can you, first of all, can you go back, how does it feel? I want you to be in your body, how does it feel if you start thinking about that event that maybe didn't show up the way you want it to? Whatever you're feeling, you gotta take those are the things to bracket, take those out and set em aside and just look at the event without layering story onto it to see if you can learn anything about yourself. Now the next part, number two would be bracket the outcome. So can you separate the outcome from the intention? What did you set out to do versus what actually unfolded? And how did your intention shape the experience regardless of the final result? Right. I think we need to, we would have, I would say this.

Perry Maughmer [00:12:40]:

First of all, I don't think we do enough about setting intention. I think it's an underused opportunity, a missed opportunity in most scenarios. And I'll give you the best example that I can give you because everybody's had, let's call it, we love to call them crucial conversations, challenging conversations, difficult conversations, whatever, whatever kind of, whatever kind of adjective you want to put on it, right? So you're going to have a conversation and it's going to be one that you're not. You're not looking forward to. So what normally happens is you have this goal for having the conversation. Unfortunately, mistakenly, most of the time, the actual goal was just to have it. It's like checking it off your list. You know, you have to do it.

Perry Maughmer [00:13:26]:

Either it could be at work and your boss said you have to do it with somebody that works for you. You have to have it with your spouse or your kid or. I don't know, it doesn't matter. But what it turns into is a. Is a task. It turns into something you gotta do, right? So now it's just a checklist. I gotta have this conversation. Now we're in the worst possible scenario because now we're not even.

Perry Maughmer [00:13:48]:

We don't even have an intention other than to do it. So think about this. And I just truly want you to think about this, because most of the time you're having. Everything in life is relational. You know, everything we do, everything we represent is relational. We only exist in relation to other people. So if you think about this, if you were having a conversation, your spouse, family member, close friend, somebody at work, I'm going to say at some level, you want to maintain, deepen, or preserve the relationship. No matter what the conversation is, especially if you're going to have a difficult one.

Perry Maughmer [00:14:26]:

My guess is you're not going to try to rupture the relationship. That's not an intention. Just think about this. Let's. Let's just pick one. Let's say you're out of a conversation with an employee, somebody that works for you, and you have to have a developmental conversation with them about something they have to do theoretically better. If your intention in the conversation was to deepen and preserve the relationship, that was your intention, regardless of the content. But your intention was to deepen and strengthen the relationship and preserve it.

Perry Maughmer [00:14:58]:

How might that impact the conversation that you have? If you went in with that explicit intention right before you started the conversation, you said, my goal here, My intention in this conversation, not a goal, I misspoke. But my intention is to preserve and strengthen the relationship. How might that change your tone? The content, the result? That's what I mean by we miss an opportunity when we don't. When we don't explicitly list our intention. But now I go back to bracket the outcome. The. In. In that scenario, and this is.

Perry Maughmer [00:15:34]:

I've. I've been preaching this for several years now. In that scenario with that employee, I don't care about the result. I care about the intention. You have to bracket the outcome because Guess what? Whatever, whatever intention you have, whatever quote unquote goal you have, whatever, whatever end you're driving to in that conversation with the employee, they didn't get the memo. They don't have the same goal. That's why those employees, that's why those conversations are quote, unquote difficult. Because we don't tell the other person we have a goal going in now.

Perry Maughmer [00:16:09]:

They sense it halfway through. They know what you're trying to do, even though you say you're not. Most of the time it's just, I need you to sign this, or I need you to do this, or I need you. But we're not honest. We try to talk them into seeing it our way so that they agree with us and therefore they're not going to, because they don't want to be manipulated and they don't agree with it. So they're going a different direction than we're going. And that's why it's difficult conversation, because not honest with ourselves or with them. So, number three, recognize your patterns.

Perry Maughmer [00:16:37]:

Are there recurring themes in your actions that you haven't noticed before? And if you look at all, if you look at several of these things, what patterns emerge when you look at your choices without judging them? Again, if you can set aside, if you can bracket, you're. You're like. If you can not layer your story on this and you can look at events over a period of time? Is there a trend or is there a theme in your actions? Do you see something that's an opportunity for learning? But you can't do that if you're so engaged in the story that you're creating about yourself and your abilities? And that leads us to number four, which is question your narratives. What stories have you been telling yourself about past experiences? What if that story isn't accurate? How would reframing it change your perception? And then the last one is integrate. Don't isolate how many of you. How. How can you see your actions as part of a continuous process rather than these chopped up, isolated incidences? And what does that say about your overall journey? And so just think about that. Try not to evaluate them in, in a vacuum.

Perry Maughmer [00:17:46]:

Look at them as a continuous process of being. So here's, here's the. If you want to call it a call to action, here's. Here's what I'd ask you to think about this week. Pick one moment from the past you've labeled as a failure. Now, instead of blaming or justifying, just simply observe what happened and write down what you see without evaluating it as good or bad, just write down what happened. If you were an unattached third party in that conversation and you were watching it play back in your head, just write down the facts of what happened so that you can see possibly an opportunity, something you can learn. And then second, create a practice of intentional reflection.

Perry Maughmer [00:18:27]:

At the end of each day, ask yourself, what did I learn today? And here's an interesting question. How did my choices shape who I am becoming? Don't try to seek conclusions, just allow the insights to emerge. So here's a final thought Evaluation is an act of courage because it requires us to see ourselves without filters. It is not about proving anything. It's about being honest with who we are and how we've shown up in the world. The story you're living is uniquely yours, and evaluating it means owning every part of it without needing it to look a certain way. You have to set aside your story if you want to evolve. It's the only way forward.

Perry Maughmer [00:19:17]:

So this will wrap up our three, our three part kind of arc of explore, experiment, evaluate, and until next time, stay relentless. Stay intentional. Evaluate not to judge, but to see clearly. And I'll see you next time.