1 00:00:00,690 --> 00:00:11,510 Filip Valica: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Product Startup Podcast, a podcast that helps bring your product idea to life by chatting with successful inventors, product designers, and other industry professionals. This podcast is run by Mako 2 00:00:11,510 --> 00:00:25,750 Filip Valica: Design + Invent, and hosted by Filip Valica. Our goal here is to get to the bottom of what makes a product successful, from initial idea to putting your product on the shelf. We're taking you step by step to build a functional product and scale your product business. Now onto the show. The 3 00:00:26,580 --> 00:00:34,320 Filip Valica: Product Startup, Episode 50. Tim Christian shares how he started O-O-O-R, a cycling apparel brand that uses recycled fabric. 4 00:00:35,780 --> 00:00:45,280 Filip Valica: Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Product Startup podcast, where we talk about turning ideas into successful products step by step. I'm Filip Valica, and thanks for listening today. 5 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:56,220 Filip Valica: In the last episode, we talked to Juliana Garizar with a Houston Angel Network about the process of angel investment. So make sure to check out episode 49 if you want a behind-the-scenes view. 6 00:00:56,620 --> 00:01:10,440 Filip Valica: of that process. Before we get started, I wanted to highlight one reviewer on iTunes. Strayo wrote, this is a fantastic podcast with a wide range of interviews dealing with product development and startups. Every interview is a gold line of information. 7 00:01:11,220 --> 00:01:22,460 Filip Valica: Thank you and please keep up the good work. Hey, thank you, Strayo and everyone else for taking your time from your day to leave a review and share the podcast with your friends. If you've just joined the podcast 8 00:01:22,460 --> 00:01:36,300 Filip Valica: and you're getting started, make sure to check out episode 10. I have a an idea, now what? It basically talks about the process of validating your product ideas where we confirm our audience and test to make sure that it will sell. We also get into 9 00:01:36,300 --> 00:01:50,920 Filip Valica: what the value of an idea is, why aren't ideas worth much, and the importance of execution and what it does to help us reduce risk and add value. And we also talk about creating prototypes on any budget, using what we have and learning how to make simple, conceptual, 10 00:01:51,240 --> 00:02:01,700 Filip Valica: and functional prototypes ourselves. Thanks to everybody that's joined the Product Startup Workshop, our private Facebook group, where we meet and collaborate on ideas, lots of people working on some interesting things. 11 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:12,020 Filip Valica: If you haven't checked it out yet already, search for the product startup workshop on Facebook or go to the product startup.com slash group and you'll be redirected. 12 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,940 Tim Christian: So now on today's show. Hi, Tim. Thanks for joining us today. Hey, Philip. 13 00:02:17,300 --> 00:02:24,900 Filip Valica: Thanks very much for having me, mate. Very grateful for having me on the show. Yeah, I'm really excited to talk about this because you've got an interesting product. 14 00:02:24,900 --> 00:02:32,320 Tim Christian: your company produces odourless gym tops and pro cycling gear made with coffee to talk about that 15 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:48,260 Tim Christian: it's um yeah it's an interesting way to um get a uh a point of difference in a very saturated market i guess yeah that's about as much as i can as i can give you based on that but um the coffee was 16 00:02:48,260 --> 00:03:03,100 Filip Valica: um an idea that came to me when i was going through an in-flight catalog years and years ago so I eventually dug into my subconscious and produced the product. You mentioned that you kind of dug into some of the issues that you had before. 17 00:03:03,220 --> 00:03:14,380 Filip Valica: What made you think that there was a gap in the market? Like you said, the cycling market seems to be really competitive. I was a casual mountain biker before I had a family. 18 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:28,960 Tim Christian: And there's just so much gear out there for cyclists. I mean, and so many companies coming up with their own stuff, it just seems so noisy. I'd be afraid of even entering the market. Why did you say, hey, you know what, I've got this different opinion on it? Oh, you'd be wise to be afraid. 19 00:03:29,580 --> 00:03:34,220 Tim Christian: Yeah, it is very saturated. There's a lot of noise. It's hard to be recognized. 20 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:50,360 Tim Christian: I didn't think there'd be any point trying to compete on a level playing field or going against some of the major or even the minor players. So I think the best way to enter a market like that is to create your own market and your own niche. 21 00:03:51,060 --> 00:04:02,520 Tim Christian: Where I saw a gap or that potential was in environmentally friendly or products that are kinder to the planet and what's currently available. 22 00:04:02,820 --> 00:04:08,960 Tim Christian: So my main sort of focus is trying to make things better for the planet 23 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:20,920 Filip Valica: in some way or another. And to my knowledge, at the time, there was nothing on the market available like that. Nothing crowded with recycled materials or more eco-friendly materials. 24 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:35,040 Filip Valica: There are a couple of bamboos around, but that was quite a mid. That's interesting that you would take that take. On the flip side, though, targeting to an audience that is usually more earth-conscious, you know, cyclists tend to be the type of people, at least in mountain biking, 25 00:04:35,180 --> 00:04:46,380 Filip Valica: you have trail days where you come in and picks up the trail and you give back to the environment that gives you that joy. I know there, at least for road cyclists, there are a lot of people that are more conscious about, 26 00:04:46,380 --> 00:04:51,980 Tim Christian: That's one of the reasons that they commute back and forth to work on bicycles because of that connection to the earth. 27 00:04:53,060 --> 00:05:01,380 Tim Christian: So, you know, that's an interesting tip that, you know, people wouldn't normally think that, hey, you know, the gear that I need to use also has to subscribe to those values. 28 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,280 Tim Christian: Everything you do has some sort of impact. 29 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:16,380 Filip Valica: And, you know, a lot of the time when you get on your bike, you're trying to escape the city or, you know, get out into the fresh air and out into the environment that you love. 30 00:05:17,020 --> 00:05:30,420 Tim Christian: and it's kind of just taking that extra step, I guess. If you want to contribute to that environment or not damage it as much by taking that pursuit, then that's where I come in, I guess. How did you go into creating your first product? 31 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:45,380 Tim Christian: What was the first product that you made, and how did you create that prototype? The first product that I made, yeah, I made lots of mistakes with. In the end, it still turned out to be a pretty good product, but it was a hard road, and I learned a lot along the way. 32 00:05:45,380 --> 00:05:53,000 Tim Christian: it was just a cycling jersey for men and I made lots and lots of prototypes before basically 33 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:59,780 Filip Valica: pulling a trigger on a small production run and I went through to make the first prototype I went 34 00:05:59,780 --> 00:06:12,500 Tim Christian: through over a dozen sample runs with different with with over a dozen manufacturers so I made lots of prototypes the trick was finding the right manufacturer and pulling all the pieces together 35 00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:24,640 Tim Christian: so pattern making and fabric and all that sort of stuff Did you have a background in pattern making before you even started this? No, so I contracted a pattern maker to do that for me. I didn't have experience in any of it. 36 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:35,760 Tim Christian: So basically pulling in experts from their given field and briefing them on what my requirements were and then taking the process, walking through the process with them along the way. 37 00:06:35,860 --> 00:06:50,760 Tim Christian: So it's kind of an exercise in project management rather than me developing my skills. But inevitably you learn a lot as you go along about each different area. So, as I said, you know, I wanted to create an eco-friendly alternative to the popular products. 38 00:06:51,580 --> 00:07:02,860 Filip Valica: And to do that, I needed decent eco-friendly fabric. So I had to start with the fabric and at the same time try and find a manufacturer that could do a decent job at constructing the garment. 39 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:08,860 Filip Valica: Yeah, so, yeah, the first sort of proper journey was all about finding the right people 40 00:07:08,860 --> 00:07:22,200 Tim Christian: and creating a fabric. And creating the fabric was a lot more challenging than I had anticipated, actually. So when you first started, you created the pattern first or the fabric first? It was kind of a parallel thing. I did them in parallel. 41 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:34,820 Tim Christian: And when you started looking at manufacturers, now if people can't tell, you're over in Australia. So I imagine you're looking at manufacturers that were over in the Asia part of the world. Is that right? I looked everywhere, man. 42 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:47,480 Tim Christian: I looked, I started in Australia because the initial vision I had for the business was to do everything in Australia. Australia used to be really very self-sufficient. I guess a lot of countries were the same. 43 00:07:47,820 --> 00:08:01,160 Tim Christian: And the global trend is sort of everything is going into Asia. There were a few sort of small manufacturers left in Australia, but none of them could do what I needed them to do. So I ended up searching further. I went to New Zealand, Fiji. 44 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,460 Tim Christian: I went to America and China and India. 45 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,880 Filip Valica: Oh, I went to Vietnam. So I looked at all these different manufacturers. 46 00:08:11,900 --> 00:08:24,780 Tim Christian: manufacturing hubs. And I settled in China for the garment construction and in New Zealand for the fabric construction. But the yarn to make the fabric was from the USA. So the yarn went 47 00:08:24,780 --> 00:08:35,640 Tim Christian: from the USA to New Zealand. The fabric was made and then fabric was shipped to China and China constructed the garments. That's really complicated. What's the reason for staying in the US for the yarn? 48 00:08:35,740 --> 00:08:49,400 Tim Christian: It had to be recycled yarn and there's a company in the US called Unified. who make recycled plastic yarn, or it's polyester. If you don't already know, polyester is basically just plastic. It's PET plastic. 49 00:08:49,940 --> 00:08:57,760 Tim Christian: And PET can be broken down and recycled an infinite number of times if it's high quality without any degradation in quality each time. 50 00:08:58,420 --> 00:09:10,660 Filip Valica: So basically I knew that I could create an identical fabric from recycled materials that I could create with virgin materials. And I didn't see any point in creating fabric with virgin materials when the other option was available. 51 00:09:10,660 --> 00:09:19,380 Tim Christian: So going back to your question, basically the industry standard in recycled polyester is made by that company Unified, which is based in America. 52 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:33,340 Tim Christian: Yeah, I wanted to have the best, you know, the most well-recognized and certified recycled polyester. And it seems like after making this whole journey throughout the world, the trip that this yarn takes, your cost might not be any different. 53 00:09:33,460 --> 00:09:46,640 Tim Christian: They might actually be more than just purchasing virgin materials. Is that right? Oh, the cost is definitely higher. Whether it travels or whether it doesn't travel, it's still higher because it's, unfortunately, it's made in lower quantities and there's less demand for it. 54 00:09:46,820 --> 00:09:58,240 Filip Valica: So eventually that change, the amount of manufacturing processes that go into make virgin polyester far outweigh the amount of manufacturing processes that 55 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:05,780 Tim Christian: go into making recycle polyester. There's nine processes that go into making the virgin polyester starting from digging the oil out of the ground. 56 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:21,420 Filip Valica: and recycled polyester, you're starting from the plastic bottles that have already been turned into PET, so most of it's already been done. There's only three steps left. In a way, it's just a matter of time until the recycled material that you're using now 57 00:10:21,420 --> 00:10:34,620 Tim Christian: ends up being cheaper because oil and gas is just going to continue to increase in price in the next 20 or 30 years. Yeah, exactly. And my hope is that with education, people realize you can get an identical product with recycled materials. 58 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:48,700 Tim Christian: But there'll be more demand for that as well. I noticed that your pricing compared to some US pricing is a bit higher than what we're used to here. Have you confirmed that people are willing to pay a little bit more to get that recycled material for something that's more 59 00:10:48,700 --> 00:10:56,080 Tim Christian: eco-friendly and in line with their values? It's hard to price across the global market because of currency fluctuation. Sure. 60 00:10:57,020 --> 00:11:03,000 Tim Christian: But the intention of the price is to pitch it just below the sort of 61 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:15,460 Filip Valica: the high-end products that are available in the US, you know, the wrappers and the Assos and Kestelli and that sort of stuff. So the intention is that it's cheaper than those products. And if 62 00:11:15,460 --> 00:11:20,800 Filip Valica: you read any of the reviews done by the experts, they actually believe the product is at least 63 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:32,680 Tim Christian: as good as those brands. So my intent is to offer a viable alternative that's more OK-friendly to those premium products. So something that's just as good, but better for the earth. 64 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:47,340 Tim Christian: And cheaper. So let's pick up your story where you left off. You were working with, you said about 12 manufacturers or so to come up with that ideal prototype. How did you get that from that point to placing an order for your larger manufacturing run? Like, what did you do to validate that there's 65 00:11:47,340 --> 00:12:01,560 Tim Christian: enough demand in the market and maybe even get some pre-orders to make sure that it worked? Well, that's the thing. That was one of the mistakes I made the first time around, actually. So the first time around, I just, it was more of a leap of faith. You know, I believed in the product. 66 00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:16,380 Tim Christian: and I'd gone down the path and there was nothing stopping me. I was going to do it regardless. So I just got it out there. I started promoting my website. I had a few sales, not a lot, you know, enough to sort of keep me interested, but not really enough to turn a profit or to recover the cost. 67 00:12:16,780 --> 00:12:31,540 Tim Christian: So I reset and I started again. Basically, we're back to the drawing board. I did it all over again. I changed the model. That's when I started producing the coffee garments that you're talking about. Now, so the first ones didn't have the coffee in them. And it was completely different. 68 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:43,180 Tim Christian: in every way. And the fabric is now no longer made in New Zealand. It's all made in Asia. So the other problem that I had with getting yarn from America, sending it to New Zealand and then sending the fabric to China 69 00:12:43,180 --> 00:12:55,720 Filip Valica: was the carbon footprint of the fabric and the carbon footprint of the garments themselves. After flying it, you know, shipping things all over the world, it was almost defeating the purpose of trying to make something more eco-friendly. 70 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:01,320 Filip Valica: So, yeah, I decided to try and centralise everything to not only cut down on cost, 71 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,620 Tim Christian: but also cut down on the carbon emissions of getting everything into the factory. 72 00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:20,860 Tim Christian: And so I started looking at that. I also thought presales might be a good idea and market proof might be a good idea as well. So the best model for that, in my opinion, was to go to Kickstarter to prove the product. Yeah, and that's interesting because a lot of times people will start with the Kickstarter, 73 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:33,020 Tim Christian: but they might not have a large enough audience. And sometimes the Kickstarter doesn't fund all the way because they don't get that push that they expected. What type of audience did you have coming into it? How big was your audience and how has your Kickstarter done? 74 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:45,940 Tim Christian: I see that you've been able to pre-sell a fair bit of product. Yeah, almost 300 pieces, I think. Yeah, there were 179 backers. Okay. But most of those backers pledged for more than one garment. 75 00:13:46,140 --> 00:14:00,280 Tim Christian: So I'm still waiting on the final numbers to come in because it was only basically December when the Kickstarter wrapped up and people take their time getting the survey results back to you. But yeah, there'd be over 300, well over 300. 76 00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:15,000 Tim Christian: three hundred garments to make from there. The audience, that's a warning for anyone who is considering going to Kickstarter. Kickstarter basically don't promote your product or your video or your campaign at all. 77 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:29,040 Tim Christian: All they are really is just a platform for you to host your own show. So if you don't have your own traffic, if you can't draw your own traffic to your Kickstarter page, Kickstarter certainly aren't going to be doing it for you. Right. I know you know that, but the listeners may not know that. 78 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:43,160 Tim Christian: So that was something that I was made aware of before I started. It sounds like something simple, but yeah, don't just go to Kickstarter with a great idea and think that it's going to go gangbusters because it won't and you make it happen and get your own traffic going there. 79 00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:53,200 Tim Christian: Initially, I had a small audience of my previous customers from the initial product and they're all committed bands, basically, of the brand, which is a really nice thing to have. 80 00:14:53,480 --> 00:15:04,080 Filip Valica: They helped promote the Kickstarter for me. And also I ran some Facebook marketing campaigns and had some influences pointing towards the campaign as well. 81 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:17,840 Filip Valica: So probably the most powerful thing that I did was I ran a competition. I ran a few competitions, but one of them was a Facebook competition to encourage people to sign up with their email address. 82 00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:25,600 Filip Valica: So I built my email list prior to launching the Kickstarter campaign. And that was probably the best driver of traffic towards the campaign. 83 00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:39,100 Tim Christian: campaign itself and also got people on the radar to sort of learn a bit about the product before the campaign has even launched. Yeah, so talk about that a little bit. I think people struggle with creating a list because it's just so hard to get traffic on anything now. 84 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:53,700 Tim Christian: There's so many competing products on the market and so much noise out there and it's really hard to stand apart. So it feels like you have to spam all your friends and family to get that initial hit. And even then sometimes people, you know, in a way that works sometimes because people that 85 00:15:53,700 --> 00:16:06,400 Tim Christian: know you best are the ones that are going to believe in you. the most but it's also hard to kind of get that traction were there any any tips you can share to help create that list for pre-launch yes your friends and family are great at helping and 86 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:19,380 Tim Christian: spreading and lots of people lots of your friends will share for you and that sort of thing but it's i don't i was never that comfortable in trying to push something on on my friends and family so i did do it but it was very gentle approach basically just said hey you know this is what 87 00:16:19,380 --> 00:16:32,720 Tim Christian: done you know check it out if you think it's cool and you know i really appreciate you passing it on And that's basically as deep as it went. For the list building, there's a really cool tool in Facebook advertising that you can capture lead. 88 00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:45,400 Tim Christian: They have a lead generation form where you capture the lead or the email address from Facebook itself. So they don't have to click a link and go out of Facebook, a lead generation or a lead gathering page. 89 00:16:45,660 --> 00:17:00,040 Tim Christian: It's literally a little pop-up that happens when they click on your advert and they can just put their email address in and hit send. And they're done. And they can keep scrolling down there, their newsfeed or wherever they found the advert. 90 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:01,420 Tim Christian: So that was how I did it. 91 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:11,740 Filip Valica: But getting people to open it in the first place or put their email address in, that's the tricky part. And you basically have to offer value to the person. 92 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,620 Tim Christian: Why are they going to put their email address in? What's in it for them? 93 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:30,000 Tim Christian: So if there's no value there, they're not going to do it, basically. There needs to be something in it for them. For a product business, the best way to do that is to offer friends. product run a competition you know you you know getting the draw to win so get notified about this cool 94 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:40,380 Filip Valica: new product we're launching and you're going the chance to win one of these products that are going to be produced and be you know one of the first people in the world to to get this product 95 00:17:40,380 --> 00:17:50,780 Filip Valica: for free yeah that's how i did i just offered free stuff you know and that's a huge cost for some products maybe especially for yours you thought that was worth it then it was i guess cheaper to do 96 00:17:50,780 --> 00:17:59,960 Filip Valica: that than paying for paid ads, which I guess you did anyway through the Facebook leads platform like you mentioned. Yeah, the paid ads were a cost. 97 00:18:01,060 --> 00:18:07,440 Filip Valica: Offering the product wasn't a huge cost because it's a, you know, you're going to draw to win. So you only have to offer one product 98 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:16,020 Tim Christian: essentially. Not everybody signing up gets a free product. I mean, yeah, that could be in the control. I'd be scared to do that. 99 00:18:18,020 --> 00:18:28,700 Tim Christian: So tell me how you were able to hone in on your audience. I guess because your audience is very specific, you're offering it for cyclists. With Facebook, you're able to do some really fine targeting with that. 100 00:18:29,180 --> 00:18:41,260 Tim Christian: I know, for example, with a product startup audience, my audience is just crazy broad. And so I have a really hard time doing anything that with targeted ads because I've got inventors that listen and small business owners that listen. 101 00:18:41,580 --> 00:18:53,440 Tim Christian: Some of them listen to podcasts, somewhat shark tank. And if you try to create this all-encompassing audience in Facebook, your cost per click is just going to be insane you're going to be paying way too much money and not the 102 00:18:53,440 --> 00:19:03,540 Tim Christian: right people are going to be seeing your ad that's a hard one for me it's a lot easier than it is for you i'd imagine just just trying to get my head around your audience as well for me i 103 00:19:03,540 --> 00:19:17,000 Tim Christian: can really drill down and get very specific um so it gets easier the trick is just still trying to get noticed in that in that market but um for you there's probably a few strategies that the tools that 104 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:27,600 Tim Christian: are available and Facebook are quite powerful, one of the things that would be that spring to mind that would be really powerful for you would be dependent on your email list already 105 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:33,220 Tim Christian: or your current followers. So you can do lookalike audiences. Have you yet? You know those. Yeah. 106 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,660 Filip Valica: So you do like a 1% lookalike audience. If it's the United States you're targeting, for example, 107 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:50,960 Filip Valica: a 1% lookalike audience would be between 1 and 3 million. And that's a pretty good size to market to the one million sizes sort of is is a good size so if you've already got the list 108 00:19:50,960 --> 00:20:02,520 Filip Valica: and there's over a thousand people on the list then the lookalike targeting gets pretty good Facebook algorithm works really well and you get a you find you get a pretty good lead generation 109 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:16,660 Filip Valica: rate out of that lookalike audience and then as you build that your own leads then the lookalike audience can be redone and you go again yeah get more focused as you go. That's quite a good way to do it. If you already have the audience. 110 00:20:16,860 --> 00:20:22,600 Tim Christian: If you don't have the audience, then you have to get pretty clever about it, I guess. I've done that a little bit. 111 00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:32,180 Filip Valica: I've experimented with the look-alike audience and it could be, you know, I think some of the people that listen to the podcast aren't always necessarily the ones that sign up for the newsletter. So if you're listening to this, please sign up to the newsletter. 112 00:20:34,540 --> 00:20:38,720 Filip Valica: Because you'll get a lot of valuable input and a lot of weekly tips. No, that's a very good point. 113 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:52,800 Tim Christian: And so, congrats on being able to narrow that down for your group and being able to have those really targeted ads. I know that Facebook leads platform is nice because they don't have that additional click they need to make, like you said. And even foregoing that additional landing page 114 00:20:52,800 --> 00:21:02,860 Tim Christian: that people have to land on to fill out their email address, just that one step means huge conversions because I've done it the other way around where I was driving it to landing pages 115 00:21:02,860 --> 00:21:12,780 Tim Christian: back before the lead ads came out. And you lost 30, 50% of the people just through that one click. Yep. They just lose interest and got some of us. Yep. 116 00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:27,860 Tim Christian: I noticed that you've got a lot of athletes that have received review copies of your merchandise and they've put up some favorable reviews. I know a lot of the other people that have been on the show here have used influencers before to help them with their marketing. 117 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:38,200 Tim Christian: Can you talk a little bit about that? How was your strategy in getting that going? I didn't have a specific strategy. I had a few sort of things running. I was building my Twitter profile at the same time. 118 00:21:39,100 --> 00:21:41,560 Tim Christian: And a few of the contacts were made on Twitter. 119 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:46,960 Filip Valica: So I noticed that an athlete would follow me on Twitter or follow the brand on Twitter. So I kept a close eye on that. 120 00:21:47,240 --> 00:22:02,140 Tim Christian: And if an athlete that I knew or an appropriate athlete would follow the brand on Twitter, I'd send them a direct message, a personal message, and say, hey, wow, you know, like I'm really flattered and humbled that you like the brand and whatever 121 00:22:02,140 --> 00:22:15,560 Tim Christian: and just start a conversation with them. And generally, if they didn't have contractual obligations to wear a certain type of apparel, then they were pretty stoked to get free stuff from me. 122 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:28,000 Tim Christian: So that's kind of how I did it on Twitter. There was another app that I used on my iPad. It's only available on Apple devices called Brand Snob. So Brand Snob, you basically put your profile up. There's a few of them around that are similar. 123 00:22:28,340 --> 00:22:31,020 Tim Christian: In fact, I just signed up to another one last night, which I can look up for you. 124 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:40,520 Filip Valica: Brand snob's a really easy platform. It's kind of like... Tinder? Tinder, yes, that's the one I was trying to think of. Not that I know what that is, by the way. I'm just going to throw that out there. I don't know what Tinder is. 125 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:45,980 Tim Christian: I'm a happily married man. Yeah, brand snob is very similar to Tinder. 126 00:22:46,260 --> 00:22:47,740 Filip Valica: Swipe left, slight right, 127 00:22:48,700 --> 00:23:03,660 Filip Valica: and that can help you get in touch with influences as well. And just targeting people that you think might be sympathetic to your cause or think might be interested in your product. So if you follow someone or you find someone interesting or you know someone's a thought leader in your field, 128 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:17,640 Filip Valica: then there's another, I guess you can always try approaching them gently LinkedIn. And if you have a strong enough story and a gentle enough approach and a friendly enough attitude, I guess, you can get some traction by approaching on LinkedIn as well. 129 00:23:17,860 --> 00:23:25,620 Filip Valica: But I generally don't do that unless I'm sort of really keen because people don't like being band and make it up on LinkedIn. 130 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,300 Filip Valica: Right. For some reason. They probably get it all the time, I'd say. 131 00:23:30,820 --> 00:23:41,960 Tim Christian: It's not like Twitter where Twitter you'll have random people you've never heard of just sending you DMs. With LinkedIn, it's like you want to be added to my network? I don't even I've never met you before basically they know that you were just trying to sell 132 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:55,900 Tim Christian: them something so right it's all about being a bit clever with your approach so a lot of influencers especially if they're at the celebrity level want something in return in addition to free product and I think at least from what I've seen the influencers that are at the early and 133 00:23:55,900 --> 00:24:05,120 Tim Christian: middle stage of their influencer careers right where they might be semi-celebrity status or less than celebrity status they might only have let's say 100,000 followers or something 134 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:19,800 Tim Christian: like that they're way more inclined to get you know to produce a review in exchange for product and they probably would even from what i've seen again have better returns on your investment because they have a better connection to their people than some of these megastars that you would think 135 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,120 Tim Christian: you know that some some popular celebrity in your space who has five million followers if they 136 00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:34,580 Filip Valica: just mentioned you once that might not really work as much or as well as some of these smaller level influencers that are easier to even approach definitely definitely i'd agree 137 00:24:34,580 --> 00:24:45,860 Filip Valica: 100% with everything you just said, yeah, I found that the people with, yeah, I guess if you're going to use 100,000, the people with less than 100,000 followers had much higher engagement levels. 138 00:24:46,060 --> 00:24:58,020 Filip Valica: I think at that point, it's very hard for them to stay engaged with their audience because it just gets, it probably gets too much for them, going beyond 100,000, but the people in that space, they're still very engaged with their audience. 139 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:08,440 Filip Valica: So they respond to people when they write to them on Instagram, for example, they respond and they'll give a good story about each post that they put up and just generally more engaged with the audience. 140 00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:13,980 Filip Valica: And that's when people feel like they know the person, whether they know them or not, then 141 00:25:13,980 --> 00:25:28,500 Tim Christian: that's basically what makes people more comfortable with listening to them and, you know, taking their advice and basically buying product based on their recommendation. They don't feel like they really know them or in touch with them, then it's a lot harder to get that conversion. Yeah. 142 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:41,980 Tim Christian: Yeah, and that's interesting. Last one, we left your product development story here. you'd launch your Kickstarter, were there any parallels to that with creating this connection with your backers that you thought were really helpful or that helped your campaign? 143 00:25:42,420 --> 00:25:57,000 Tim Christian: Was there any techniques that you use maybe certain types of video, certain types of ways of connecting with your audience that really helped to get some of that response that you were looking for? For example, some guests that have been on the show have said that the lifestyle video 144 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:07,820 Filip Valica: that shows the product in use has fared a lot better than the making. of video, which used to be a really popular way, you know, the behind the scenes, how this is made 145 00:26:07,820 --> 00:26:17,120 Filip Valica: is now maybe second in popularity to, you know, show me a one-minute cut of the various ways of using this product. Right, yeah, okay. 146 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:31,660 Tim Christian: Well, I only made one video because I had very limited budget, and it was just the Kickstarter video, so three minutes of, you know, what I've done and why it's different, pretty much. And within that video, there were various lifestyle shots, and there was, like, an interview 147 00:26:31,660 --> 00:26:42,700 Tim Christian: style shot of me talking to the camera, sort of telling people about what I'd done and why I thought it was a good thing and why I needed your help. So that was kind of the only, I don't really 148 00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:55,220 Tim Christian: have a comparison, anything to sort of cross-reference that with or say that one was better than the other, unfortunately. But I do believe that, yeah, the product, showing a product in use 149 00:26:55,220 --> 00:27:01,800 Tim Christian: as opposed to being made is more powerful. But yeah, I haven't moved on to that, those videos or anything yet. 150 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,180 Tim Christian: Fair enough. Were there any lessons that you've learned that you can pass on to other people about 151 00:27:06,180 --> 00:27:19,540 Filip Valica: the Kickstarter campaign that, you know, that were really helpful for you to kind of close those last minute deals? Or did you find that you had a surge of funding towards the end or in the beginning? Or was it pretty even along the way? 152 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:31,300 Filip Valica: Or did you have to tweak anything, you know, along your campaign to kind of get more performance out of it? Yeah, it's a long road. My campaign was 30 days. I think that's about, you know, maybe on the lower side. 153 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:43,780 Tim Christian: of average for the length of a campaign, but it seems like it goes on forever, and that's from your side, from the other side, 30 days may seem short or short enough. If it goes too 154 00:27:43,780 --> 00:27:56,660 Tim Christian: long, it's kind of hard to keep it interesting. What's really good about running a Kickstarter campaign is the sense of urgency that it creates. And that sense of urgency, the fact that it's 155 00:27:56,660 --> 00:28:08,480 Tim Christian: got a finite period means that people have to act now or they're going to miss out on the offer. If without that urgency, then people just don't act or there's a lot less incentive 156 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:18,220 Tim Christian: for them to act. They can do it later if they want to. They don't have to make a decision now. So that's the benefit of running the Kickstarter campaign. You mentioned having a sense of urgency 157 00:28:18,220 --> 00:28:29,780 Tim Christian: and I've also heard other people say that as well in terms of how they structure the product pricing for their Kickstarter. They're trying to make some of these rewards to be enticing enough 158 00:28:29,780 --> 00:28:41,660 Tim Christian: to where you know that this company isn't going to produce anything at that price level again, and so you need to jump on it now because it's at least 30% off or whatever that is, the retail price. Did you find that to be true? 159 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:53,400 Tim Christian: Yes. Yeah, I found once the early bed pricing was gone, there was a lot less interest in the product uptake or the, yeah, but there was a lot less people going for the product. 160 00:28:53,620 --> 00:29:05,280 Tim Christian: So I've seen a few successful campaigns where there were a few different, tiers of early bird pricing, so maybe three different levels, as opposed to just early birds 161 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:20,180 Tim Christian: and then full price, or early birds and then Kickstarter full price, which could still be a discount to the retail price. So, yeah, maybe having two tiers of early birds, like a super early bird, an early bird, and then the Kickstarter price, and making it very clear that the Kickstarter price 162 00:29:20,180 --> 00:29:26,860 Tim Christian: is still a solid discount from the end retail price. That would probably be my recommendation. 163 00:29:26,860 --> 00:29:35,780 Tim Christian: I did notice that the initial interest is always the biggest hit in the first sort of 48 hours, 48 to 72 hours, and then it tapers off quite a lot from there. 164 00:29:36,620 --> 00:29:45,900 Tim Christian: And that's just due to the fact that you've built up all this hype around your product launch and you've got all these fans or all these people that are, you know, are really 165 00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:53,080 Tim Christian: interested in your product and they've already decided that they want to buy it or contribute to your project before you even launch it. 166 00:29:53,080 --> 00:30:03,320 Tim Christian: So you've sent all of your email list and all of your Facebook followers and your Twitter followers and everything to the campaign as soon as you launch it and they've all gone, yep, 167 00:30:03,660 --> 00:30:17,340 Filip Valica: I'll have it and they're done. So once that initial surge is gone after the first 48 hours, you've got to try and find ways to keep the interest going and keep the campaign ticking along. And that's why it sort of surges and then sort of plateaus. 168 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,900 Filip Valica: But sort of you don't really want to run a two-day campaign. Right. Yeah, 169 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:36,080 Tim Christian: it did. So after the first two days in my campaign from memory, I think we got through about $12,000 or something like that. And after 30 days, it finished at about $43,000. 170 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:47,140 Tim Christian: So there was still a long way to go after that first couple of days, but it was definitely the fastest earning period. And the way to continue the interest was I had a number of 171 00:30:47,140 --> 00:30:56,100 Tim Christian: Twitter campaigns with some businesses that had followers in that space, and I ran marketing 172 00:30:56,100 --> 00:31:06,460 Tim Christian: campaigns on Facebook, and then I had different influences pushing the product through their channels at various points throughout the campaign as well. 173 00:31:06,620 --> 00:31:14,160 Tim Christian: So each sort of one had its own little surge as it went along, and then basically once a week, 174 00:31:15,260 --> 00:31:27,320 Tim Christian: I'd hit my email list again and just sort of say, you know, give them update and say, hey, can you go out there and push? No, that's great, great advice. So I know when we first talked for you 175 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:40,380 Tim Christian: to come on the show, you had just finished wrapping up the campaign and you needed some much deserved R&R. So now you're going to be fulfilling some of those orders. Are you going to be fulfilling them yourself or do you have some third party fulfillment lined up? I've got third party 176 00:31:40,380 --> 00:31:51,920 Tim Christian: fulfillment lined up. I'm trying to build a business that is for one of a better word as automated as possible. I don't want to just have robots or, you know, a fully automated 177 00:31:51,920 --> 00:32:02,320 Tim Christian: process because I don't want to lose touch with the customer. But, you know, at the moment, as a sole trader, I want to keep the man now as low as possible, so it's manageable. 178 00:32:02,700 --> 00:32:07,880 Tim Christian: Especially with their full-time day job. Yeah, that's right. So if I can have the orders come in 179 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:20,420 Filip Valica: and automatically go to the fulfillment warehouse where the product gets picked and packed and shipped without me having to actually do anything, then that's kind of the plan. So that's what I'm setting up at the moment. 180 00:32:20,860 --> 00:32:28,380 Filip Valica: Having said that, I don't want to lose contact or I don't want to lose the touch point with the customer, so I still need to add personalisation in there. 181 00:32:30,620 --> 00:32:38,050 Tim Christian: For the way I'm doing it is still not set in stone. 182 00:32:38,750 --> 00:32:53,230 Tim Christian: because I'm waiting for those last few backers to come in and finish, fill out their survey in backer kit to tell me what they want and where they live and all that sort of thing. So once I have all of the details, I know the strategy that I'm going to take. 183 00:32:53,370 --> 00:33:07,530 Tim Christian: There's a few sort of big shipment, fulfillment businesses that I can use to handle everything, but I probably won't take that strategy. I've got a few contacts that do fulfilment in the United States and in the UK and in Australia. 184 00:33:08,170 --> 00:33:18,930 Tim Christian: And I think I'll probably send them all to separate businesses within those countries because they're the three main centres for my customers, where the customers come from. Right. Yeah. 185 00:33:19,510 --> 00:33:33,550 Tim Christian: So I'll have them packed in China in the factory where they're made and then shipped in bulk to the countries that they need to go to and then fulfilled the smaller fulfillment warehouses. 186 00:33:33,650 --> 00:33:38,150 Tim Christian: Talk a little bit about your strategy for how many units you're going to buy in the beginning. 187 00:33:38,330 --> 00:33:50,470 Tim Christian: As you mentioned, that you sold about 300 through your crowdfunding campaign, but that might not be that break-even point that you need to, you know, for a large enough order for the manufacturer to start the work. 188 00:33:50,730 --> 00:33:58,470 Tim Christian: And I'm sure you'd want to sell some through your e-commerce site as well. So talk a little bit about your sizing for the first order and what you're basing it on. 189 00:33:58,690 --> 00:34:07,750 Tim Christian: So the Kickstarter campaign was to allow me to develop or produce the coffee fabric that I wanted to produce. 190 00:34:08,330 --> 00:34:20,430 Tim Christian: of garments. I have made the copy fabric for the prototype garments, but it was in a trial, a trial fabric production, which is a very small run. It was only, you know, sort of 50 metres 191 00:34:20,430 --> 00:34:32,550 Tim Christian: of fabric at a time. And there's only so much interest from the fabric manufacturer to produce those small runs. It takes them a lot of time to set up the knitting loom and whatnot. 192 00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:39,830 Tim Christian: And once they turn it on, if they turn it off straight away, it's still going to make 50, at least sort of 50 meters of fabric. 193 00:34:41,490 --> 00:34:56,270 Tim Christian: So it's not very beneficial for them to do any trial runs. It's really only just to get your business. So there's only a very limited time that they'll do trial runs until they say, I'm done doing trial runs because this costs us money and they're not getting any money 194 00:34:56,270 --> 00:35:03,010 Tim Christian: out of you. Right. So even if you offer to pay for the trial run, it's still not, there's no cost benefit for them to do it. 195 00:35:03,110 --> 00:35:17,510 Filip Valica: So they say, look, we'll do a few trials for you. Then you have to produce bulk. So the Kickstarter was to enable me to produce the fabric that I needed and to produce it in a bulk quantity that I needed to do it in to actually get the fabric made. 196 00:35:18,350 --> 00:35:25,370 Filip Valica: So the fabric's being made now. It's made in bulk. So I'll have it sitting there and I can produce the garments whenever I need to 197 00:35:25,370 --> 00:35:39,930 Tim Christian: in whatever quantity I need to produce me. And that's one of the advantages of my new garment manufacturer is that I can produce one or I can produce 1,000. and it's no big deal either way. Oh, that's great, especially with your sizing, 198 00:35:40,170 --> 00:35:44,190 Tim Christian: because you're going to have so many different sizes between men, women, children. Yeah, exactly. 199 00:35:45,110 --> 00:35:58,570 Tim Christian: I won't be offering children sizes just yet. That might come down the track. But I've offered sizes from extra small to 5xl as well because a lot of brands don't offer up that high, that large, up to 5XL. 200 00:35:58,630 --> 00:36:09,230 Tim Christian: So that's another niche market that I can take advantage of. The plan is to, because I'll have all of the fabric and all of the what you call notions sitting there and available ready to go, 201 00:36:09,730 --> 00:36:22,090 Filip Valica: the plan is to produce basically 10 or 15% more than the Kickstarter order in every size and colour and have that sitting ready to go in the fulfilment warehouses. 202 00:36:22,530 --> 00:36:26,530 Filip Valica: So that way I have it basically, I should be able to cover the cost of it all. 203 00:36:26,810 --> 00:36:38,910 Tim Christian: And when I start marketing the products on my e-commerce site, then I'll be able to fulfil the orders straight away. When they start to sell out, then that will trigger production of some more comments. 204 00:36:39,010 --> 00:36:49,670 Tim Christian: Talk about that a little bit with your relative size with the Kickstarter order versus what you need to keep going. You mentioned that it's allowing you to purchase your custom material. 205 00:36:50,130 --> 00:37:01,670 Tim Christian: Are you breaking even with your Kickstarter campaign or is it basically an investment into a larger operation? Or are you even making a little bit of profit on it to where you can feed that back into the business? 206 00:37:01,670 --> 00:37:13,050 Tim Christian: No, it was, the numbers were done to basically break even on producing the bulk fabric and producing the garments. Okay. So that's where the numbers were at. 207 00:37:13,210 --> 00:37:19,350 Filip Valica: So the plan is once I'll finish the Kickstarter garments, I will have broken even on the fabric production and the garment production. 208 00:37:19,970 --> 00:37:30,430 Filip Valica: And then the excess will be used for producing packaging and redoing the website, which I'm in the process of doing at the moment, and that sort of thing. 209 00:37:30,430 --> 00:37:42,610 Tim Christian: so but when it's all said and done i'll get zero dollars um but the uh i'll have the fabric in bulk ready to go and every order after that should be clear profit we're not not clear 210 00:37:42,610 --> 00:37:52,950 Tim Christian: profit but um uh over the manufacturing cost it'll be it'll be profit right no that's great i imagine that as you're going through this process you've probably looked at various fulfillment methods 211 00:37:52,950 --> 00:38:07,890 Tim Christian: like you said you've got places around the world to fulfill for kickstarter now your um your full-time fulfillment options. Have you looked at Amazon at all or you know you're going to focus on you're rolling your own e-commerce store? I've kind of looked at Amazon. It's not, it's not, 212 00:38:08,130 --> 00:38:18,850 Filip Valica: it's kind of a big behemoth that I, it's like a bear that I don't really want to poke at the moment, I guess. There's a lot of information out there about how best to sell and market on Amazon, 213 00:38:19,330 --> 00:38:31,950 Filip Valica: but I haven't read any of it. And it's just like, it's something that I just don't have time to do at the moment. But I do, I have done a lot of reading about my own marketing and I'm learning about all of that sort of side of things. 214 00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:45,810 Tim Christian: So at the moment, I'm a lot more comfortable just running my own marketing campaigns and selling on my directing traffic to my own e-commerce store. Having said that, maybe later in the year, I'll look at Amazon as well. But at this point, it'll just be in my own store. 215 00:38:46,070 --> 00:39:01,050 Tim Christian: And I'm looking to employ some sales reps and looking for distribution partners. Yeah, and some guests that we've had on the show had to have really great luck actually with employing commission-only sales rep that represent similar products, 216 00:39:01,210 --> 00:39:15,930 Tim Christian: so they already have those types of connections in the industry, and they would just be taking on your line. And so in addition to mentioning other people's products, whenever they make a visit to a buyer, they would basically drop in yours. Yep, yep. Yeah, so that's all the stuff that I'm working at the moment. 217 00:39:16,070 --> 00:39:26,750 Tim Christian: So before I go into Amazon and that sort of thing, I'll be focusing on those types of strategies. It's a lot easier for me to have one sales rep to go and sell to, 218 00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:38,770 Tim Christian: various people or one distribution partner who will buy 100 garments at a time than to sell to 100 different people right absolutely myself yeah so even though that the margins will obviously be 219 00:39:38,770 --> 00:39:49,890 Tim Christian: lower because you're creating you know middlemen and whatnot it's still the cost of time benefit is still heavily weighed in in favor of selling 100 at a time than as opposed to one yeah well 220 00:39:49,890 --> 00:40:02,430 Tim Christian: tim i really appreciate you sharing your story you know as we walk through this path with you you've definitely shared some of the missteps along the way that you've had, some of the struggles, but also some of the huge wins. And I think that's indicative of taking any 221 00:40:02,430 --> 00:40:16,250 Tim Christian: product to market is that you're going to have to iterate a bit, you know, go back a step and forward a step. Yeah, it's a journey. Can you share your parting tip for someone that's kind of in the place that you were before you launch your Kickstarter? That's still kind of 222 00:40:16,250 --> 00:40:27,950 Tim Christian: struggling with taking their idea to market? I've got a couple of tips. I won't ride it on too much, but probably the biggest thing for me is I'm not in the business to just make profit. 223 00:40:28,290 --> 00:40:38,770 Tim Christian: I'm in the business to benefit more than just myself and more than just my business. And my strong tip is that if you're just in it for business and just in it for money, 224 00:40:38,930 --> 00:40:51,090 Tim Christian: then try and integrate something in your strategy to benefit someone else. People are more willing, not only for your business's health, but also for your own 225 00:40:51,110 --> 00:41:02,510 Tim Christian: sense of well-being and for your own purpose. It definitely pays dividends in more ways than one. People are more willing to contribute to a product or buy a product or help promote your 226 00:41:02,510 --> 00:41:08,910 Tim Christian: product. Your product is actually doing something good. So my products are all the most environmentally 227 00:41:08,910 --> 00:41:19,490 Filip Valica: friendly high-performance apparel on the planet. So that's something that people can sort of get behind. It's the most eco-friendly stuff why wouldn't buy it, you know, that sort of thing. Also, my 228 00:41:19,490 --> 00:41:30,530 Tim Christian: products contribute to charities in Australia and in South Africa. So, I guess the tip is, yeah, is that exactly, the people are more willing to 229 00:41:30,530 --> 00:41:37,090 Filip Valica: say to give you money for your products. If they know that it's going to work for them, it's going to do more than just go in your pocket. 230 00:41:37,650 --> 00:41:45,750 Filip Valica: And the flip side of that is the reward you get from helping someone in a charity is, you 231 00:41:45,750 --> 00:41:52,350 Tim Christian: know, it's more rewarding than just getting the cash. So that's my strong product tip And I'm sure that's one of the reasons 232 00:41:52,350 --> 00:42:04,670 Filip Valica: For the success of the Kicksada campaign as well Because people were a lot more willing to share it Because it was doing something good for the planet And it's good for the charity that we support The other tip is split test 233 00:42:04,670 --> 00:42:16,650 Filip Valica: So with the Facebook marketing We were discussing before I used a program called Ad Espresso Yep, familiar with that You're familiar with it? Yeah So Atespresso has a university 234 00:42:16,650 --> 00:42:31,530 Filip Valica: in there where they teach you how to use the tool and they teach your techniques on how to refine your audience and all that sort of stuff. You get a free 30 days, I think, to sort of test and use the tool. I use the free 30 days to go and do all the university videos and learn 235 00:42:31,530 --> 00:42:45,110 Filip Valica: about it. And you can, instead of in the Facebook tool, you can only do one ad at a time. In ad espresso, you can split test up to about 150 ads at once and it only takes you about the same amount of time to build that one ad. 236 00:42:45,810 --> 00:42:56,910 Filip Valica: So I found that a really powerful tool for my Facebook marketing. And they also have people who help you refine your ads and give you tips on why certain 237 00:42:56,910 --> 00:43:10,190 Filip Valica: things are working and certain things aren't and what you may do to refine your ads as well. So, yeah, that was a great tool. And that sort of, that helped a lot at espresso. Tim, thanks a lot for all the tips that you gave us. 238 00:43:10,510 --> 00:43:25,290 Filip Valica: As people listen to you, I'm sure some of them, are cycling, go to the gym, they want to buy some of the gear, where can they go to make a purchase? Okay, you can go to wwwr.com.a u-o-o-r.com.a-u-o-r.com. 239 00:43:26,510 --> 00:43:35,390 Filip Valica: Well, Tim, thanks again for coming on the show. It was my pleasure having you on, and thanks again for being so transparent. And I hope to hear from you in six or 12 months down the line. 240 00:43:35,530 --> 00:43:41,170 Tim Christian: We'd like to have you back on the show and to give us a five or ten-minute update about what type of progress you've made, 241 00:43:41,170 --> 00:43:45,690 Filip Valica: especially in the V-2-C e-com space. Thanks, man. Yeah, I appreciate that. 242 00:43:45,710 --> 00:43:49,290 Tim Christian: I'd like to come back on and that'll give me something to some accountability. 243 00:43:50,650 --> 00:43:54,790 Tim Christian: Thanks very much, Philip. I hope that you enjoyed our conversation with Tim this week. 244 00:43:54,970 --> 00:44:07,770 Filip Valica: Here are my three takeaways from the interview. Number one, understand your supply chain. What path do your raw materials take to get to the manufacturer and how is your product made and shipped to your warehouse? If you can learn what entities are involved in your product, 245 00:44:07,950 --> 00:44:21,990 Filip Valica: you will be in a better position of influencing costs and setting up contingencies when emergencies come up. Number two, build your customer list. Social networks come and go. And in the case of Facebook, reaching your followers organically is getting more and more expensive 246 00:44:21,990 --> 00:44:36,510 Filip Valica: as the network is flooded with noise. Create your customer list early on when you first start to test the market and develop prototypes for your product. That way, you can reach out to customers directly as your company grows. And number three, find a deeper meeting in your work. 247 00:44:36,770 --> 00:44:48,430 Filip Valica: It will help push you forward when things get tough. and customers will make a stronger connection with your brand. You don't have to change the world, just your piece of it. To quote Tim, it's more rewarding than getting cash. 248 00:44:48,910 --> 00:45:03,550 Filip Valica: Of course, if you'd like to get these takeaways in your inbox every week, just go to the product startup.com, scroll to the footer, and sign up to the weekly wrap up. At the end of every week, you'll get my three takeaways for each guest, along with interesting articles, free tools, 249 00:45:03,810 --> 00:45:17,810 Filip Valica: and inspiring innovations to help you with your own product startup. So join me next week as I speak with Samantha and Elaine from Midas Cup when they talk about creating an all natural alternative to coffee. So make sure to tune in next week to hear that episode. 250 00:45:18,370 --> 00:45:32,290 Filip Valica: And again, check out the Product Startup Workshop, our Facebook group that I created for you, just to meet and get help from other product founders like yourself. Go to the Product Startup.com slash group or search for the Product Startup Workshop on Facebook. 251 00:45:32,570 --> 00:45:38,550 Filip Valica: So thanks again for joining me. I hope that you're taking action on developing your products. And I'll see you next week. 252 00:45:46,370 --> 00:45:58,690 Filip Valica: Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Product Startup Podcast, the show that teaches you what it really takes to bring your product to market and turn it into a big success. This podcast series is brought to you by Mako Design + Invent, 253 00:45:59,230 --> 00:46:14,230 Filip Valica: the first firm in North America to provide global caliber end-to-end physical consumer product development to startups, inventors, and small product businesses. If you're looking for product development help on your invention, head over to Mako-design.com. That's M-A-K-O-D-D-Sign.com. 254 00:46:14,310 --> 00:46:21,510 Filip Valica: for a free consultation from one of Mako Design Four Design Studios from coast to coast. Thanks for listening and see you next time.