The number one trait that I had that made it work was ignorance.

I didn't understand how hard it would be working in computer programming.

Back in those days, it really was so new, not a lot of people could do it.

And that became something that I specialized in which was solving problems at large scale.

That was let me solve a problem for myself and then it just opened a door.

Here I am during the day fixing cars and at night I'm building websites for other people.

There wasn't many of those problems around where you had to think about a website with 10 million users.

Are you looking to increase sales, grow your brand and share your leadership message?

Then check out our business podcast program.

Each week more people listen to podcasts than have Netflix accounts and one third of the US population listens to podcasts regularly.

So your customers and team are already listening to podcasts.

It should be yours.

Discover our five step profitable podcast framework and what results you can expect for your company by setting up a 20 minute call with my team at benleads.com schedule that's beenleads.com schedule.

Welcome back to lead the team with number one best selling author and in demand corporate trainer Ben Fanning.

On this podcast, the world's most innovative senior leaders share their top success strategies to motivate your direct reports, cultivate your top leaders and accelerate your career.

Let's get started.

Here's Ben.

Hey there.

Lead the team nation.

Welcome back to another great episode.

Today I have for you Bill Salic who is the CTO of Brainly, the number one AI education tool in the world with a vision to give every student in the world access to personalized learning, no matter their background or resources.

Now, if you're not familiar with Brainly, they're relied upon by more than 10 million students, parents and teachers every day for personalized on demand academic assistance.

This platform provides world class homework help, test prep and tutoring that's verified for academic accuracy and customize to each student based on their learning style.

Now, ironically, Bill, right, their CTO actually dropped out of high school because the traditional school system just wasn't working for him.

Then he went on to work for AI and education for over 20 years.

And now at Brainly, he's built something that adapts to the needs of every individual student to improve the education system.

Bill, welcome to lead the team.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Well, I can't just throw out that little tidbit about your background and not dig in a little bit.

So let's just say high school like you said, wasn't working for you.

And then what was the leveraging point for you to say, you know what?

I'm going to make a technology that's going to work for everybody?

Yeah, it's a, it's a long story.

So I'll try to, I'll try to keep it interesting and maybe not as long as it can be, but.

But yeah, so I dropped out of high school.

It just wasn't engaging.

It wasn't interesting.

I had been identified early as a young kid as being gifted.

So I was put in these gifted programs where I had access to the best learning resources, the best teachers, given the best opportunities.

It just didn't do it for me.

I found that I was a boarding class.

I was not paying attention.

I would, for example, you know, read the textbook beginning to end the first week of school and then the rest of it just seemed repetitive and too slow for me.

So I'd constantly just be focusing, doing my own thing in class and able to sort of wing it right.

So like an assignment would come up, a test would come up and I'd be able to do well enough to sort of stay in the program even though I wasn't doing the work.

But eventually that became, that became me just not trying anymore, like not doing the test and then eventually not even showing up to class because I just wasn't engaged.

So what's interesting is that despite all the best opportunities, despite clearly being able to do the work, it, it wasn't working for me.

And, and I saw the challenges that this created for me later in life.

Obviously as a kid you don't understand what these things mean or you're always told you got to go to college, get a good job.

None of that was engaging or interesting to me.

I just figured that I would do whatever felt right for me.

And fortunately it did work out for me.

I wouldn't recommend that path for anybody else.

But I kind of felt.

Were your parents freaking out?

They're like, they were Bill.

You seem like you're reading the textbook and you're not and you're not passing what's happening.

You gotta go to like was there.

And were you just always the kind of person who was listening to the beat of their own drummer or rebuking the system?

My parents definitely, I definitely put them through the wringer.

It went from, hey, my, my eight year old is going to become a lawyer.

When he grows up, he's going to do great things to.

Let's just keep this kid out of jail.

Let's make sure that he's like employable.

So I think that wore him out for sure.

As I grew up, but I sort of had a similar experience in work.

I, I kind of fell into this world of computer programming engineering.

I fell into it sort of by accident.

I had an idea, I wanted to work on that idea.

Nobody would help me.

It was, it was a website and, and I ended up teaching myself how to build websites.

To be able to do that.

People started asking me, they saw what I did, they started asking me for help with their websites.

That became a business for me.

And what was the, what was the general timeframe of this year wise?

This was 98.

98, okay.

Yeah, about 98.

So early, early on in that space for sure.

And people could barely spell the term website, much less understand what's going on.

But you dove into that.

And just for listeners, there weren't a lot of tools back then.

The only way you're going to learn to build a website is pretty much trial and error.

Right.

And sheer grit and determination.

Yeah.

There were sort of two paths.

One was go to a university that had a course and you could pick up enough to then get a job and then be exposed to learning these skills on the job.

Because teaching website development wasn't really a thing back then, but you could at least, you know, get a computer science degree and then be exposed to it in the workforce.

I had no college degree, I had no formal education.

I taught myself how to build websites by looking at the source code of Yahoo, which was not easy, but also, like, was really good because I learned exactly what I needed to know to do what I wanted to do.

And if I ever had a question about, like, how do I do this?

I would just go to a website that was doing it, look at the source code and figure it out.

So it was a very practical sort of like, learn what you need to know to be successful approach to learning.

Yeah.

So I eventually said, okay, let me go try to get a job doing this.

I can do the work.

But nobody would hire me because I didn't have a degree.

And so I continued to work on my own company and develop it and ended up founding a series of companies, each successively more successful than the previous until it became a very successful, you know, I had a very successful business.

We were doing multimillion dollar projects.

We were an elite boutique design and website company, multimedia company, which was awesome.

But then I got bored again.

It was like, I just am tired of doing the same thing over and over and over again.

And I found myself leaning towards projects that made a difference.

So anything to do with the environment, anything to do with education, uh, and I just started really digging into those ideas because they were personally exciting to me.

Not because they were technically challenging, but because of the impact.

And around that time, my business partners, I brought a few people into my company as partners.

They said, hey, you keep taking these really low paying projects instead of these big dollar projects.

Why are you doing that?

And I sort of had to confront the fact that I was driving the business into the ground because I wanted to do these things that were personally exciting rather than the ones that made sense for the business.

And that eventually led me to leaving my own company and joining, wanting to take a year off work, just wanted to write code for a year.

Like that's how I take a year off is to just not be in charge of anything.

But just wanted to be an engineer for a year and not be responsible.

I applied for a job at Age of Learning around that time and they were like, hey, like we looked you up and you're not really an engineer.

You, you have these other skills.

So we're going to hire you, but not as an engineer.

We'll figure out what you're going to do.

And that was kind of their, their philosophy.

Doug Doring, who was the founder and CEO at the time, that's his philosophy.

Just hire good people and figure it out.

So I joined Age of Learning and that, that, that was where I sort of became part of the more formalized, like, let's build a company that's going to make an impact in education.

Before that, I had done a ton of work as a provider, as a development provider to America Online and many others who were working in the education space.

But America Online, AOL now, but I want to, let's continue this story, but first thing is, you keep saying for several times I got bored and I just went and I was like, I'm going to do something else that I'm more interested in.

A lot of leaders and listeners are like, I'm bored at work too, right?

I'm making money.

You were making money, you were bored.

A lot of people just say, well, I'm going to take a more fantastic vacation or I'm going to get a hobby.

Instead.

You're like, no, I'm going to lead my own company or I'm going to go take these other projects.

What's your advice to leaders out there who are feeling bored in life and at work?

You know, that's, it's, it's a, it's hard to give people advice at this level because I know, I know everybody's different.

And what excites you may not.

And what interests you may not be something you can build a business on top of, or may not be something that, that ultimately fulfills your financial needs.

Um, I, I am the type of person who, when I get interested in something, I kind of immerse myself in it.

I would say if you're that type of person, you're more likely to be successful.

I'm making a business out of that thing.

Okay.

And if that is your passion and you, you really want to follow your passion, making a business out of it could also ruin that passion.

So it's a double edged sword.

I, I don't, I don't want to just say it's a.

The blanket advice is, hey, everyone, follow your passion and be happy in life.

Because the bottom line is not.

You're not always going to be financially stable.

And being financially stable is part of being happy in life.

Yeah.

You don't want to suck the fun out of what you enjoy doing because now it's a job or it's a business.

You're stressed out about the bottom line, but it feels like that's how you think.

You're like, okay, how can I make money?

This is what I'm gonna do.

How can I make money now doing this is that.

Yeah, I'm just kind of piecing it together.

But that's what it sounds like to me.

It's a, it's a bit of youthful naivete.

Being young and just sort of doing what you want to do because you're young and you don't understand the consequences.

You're thinking about what you're going to lose because you don't have anything.

I mean, I come from a pretty modest background, so I was never like, oh, what if I lose my house?

What if I lose this?

And what if it was for me?

It was like, I don't really have anything to lose.

Like, this looks cool, I'm going to go do this thing.

And if I make money out of cool.

I worked for many years as an auto mechanic and that was my job.

Like, I know how to turn wrenches.

I know how to fix cars.

For me, that was always the fall.

Wait, when did you were, when were you an auto mechanic in this life?

I like that tidbit out.

Yeah.

So in between high school and eventually founding my first company, I was turning wrenches for about 12 years.

So I started at believe it or not, started at Jiffy Lube, changing people's oil, and then ended up working for a couple different shops and became a proficient, certified dynamic.

One of my specialties was working on computers and cars.

And one of the things that I loved about the job was the challenge every day, like, at getting a new problem to solve.

One of the things I didn't like about it was the fact that it was brutal work, long hours for what seemed to be not enough pay.

And so I saw friends working, making tons of money, younger than me, working on, on websites, building stuff.

And I was happened to just, like, find an interest in that as a hobby, right?

So it was like, I have this idea, hey, can you guys help me build this website?

And then they're like, no, we can't.

We're, we're busy, but you can do it yourself.

And I kind of got a point to like, go, here's how you can, like, pull up a webpage and look at source code and like, this is the stuff that makes the website work.

They'll figure it out.

And so looking back, going from interested car mechanic to building the number one AI tool in the world.

What, what?

There's so many ways to take that.

What, what, what trait do you think that you had to help you keep going in that journey?

Because that's a, that's a big, big leap.

And also, you know, there are probably some pretty difficult challenges along the way.

What was one of the biggest ones, and how'd you tackle it?

Look, I'll start with, by saying, again, like, I don't recommend anybody do what I did.

It's not, I'm not saying this is the right way to do it.

I'm going to do exactly what you did.

I'm just kidding.

It's definitely not the template to be successful.

It worked for me.

I think that the number one trait that I had that made it work was ignorance.

I didn't understand how hard it would be.

I didn't know how daunting it would be.

I didn't know all the things that I would have to solve for and all the challenges that would be put in my way and, and all of the, the way the whole system worked, right?

Like, you don't have a college degree, you can't work here, or your opinion doesn't count because you don't have the pedigree that I have, that kind of thing.

What was great about working in computer programming back in those days, like, the early days, like, it really was so new that it was like, not a lot of people could do it.

And do it well at scale.

And that became something that I specialized in, which was solving problems, these, these types of technology problems at large scale.

And there was, there wasn't many people who could do that.

There wasn't like many of those problems around where you had to think about a website with 10 million users.

It just wasn't a thing.

Like very few people had that problem.

So, yeah, I mean, I did get introduced to those types of problems and gained proficiency in them.

And then everything else didn't matter.

It wasn't like, what's your pedigree?

It's like, well, do you see what I've done?

All right, now sit down and let's, let's have a conversation about how, what we're going to do together.

Yeah, that's so cool because it reminds me of that, like the book from Malcolm Gladwell, David and Goliath, and the.

Your perceived disadvantage of, number one, ignorance of not knowing how crazy the road could be and all the challenges are going to be there.

And also the constraints of the nose of, hey, you don't have a college degree, you can't work here, kind of guided you right into this perfect intersection to apply your strengths.

And so I think for leaders, sometimes those no's, sometimes it's about, well, I'm going to, I want to keep getting the nose and eventually I'll get a yes.

I've just got to persevere and keep going.

But it sounds like you interpreted those noses, hey, I'm just not going to go in that direction.

What, what doors are open.

And there you.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I was following, I was following the work in the sense that, that this is what I wanted to do for myself.

And then when people saw what I could do, they were like, hey, can you do that for me?

So that, that was my aim, is like, let me solve a problem for myself and teach myself how to solve this problem.

And then it just opened a door where it was like, all right, here I am during the day fixing cars and at night I'm building websites for other people because they're asking me to, because they've seen what I've done for my.

They've seen my website and now they're asking me to and I'm able to charge them.

And then, okay, now I've got enough people and I'm charging them money.

I should actually create a business and like formalize this.

And like all then all of a sudden, okay, I'm not turning wrenches during the day because I've got way Too many clients who want me to build websites and I need to hire help.

And it just sort of kept going, kept going, kept going.

That's the nature of those early days, though.

I mean that the disruption of the web and the newness of it created those opportunities, which is cool because we're kind of, we're kind of there today with Gen AI, it's like everything's being disrupted and there's so many opportunities now.

Would you or your CEO be a good fit for this podcast?

If you know a uniquely talented leader who has a story to share and a message to deliver, then we'd love to host them on the show.

Go to beneleads.com apply to fill out a quick form where you can let us know a little bit about yourself.

And my team will take a look to see if we're a good fit.

That's beneleads.com apply.

I was really, I'm really excited about Brain Lee and learning about it.

And what's interesting to me too is a lot of companies are thinking about monetization of AI and there's a lot of ways it's going.

Why specifically are you disrupting and so focused on disrupting the education space when you could be, you could be doing healthcare, you could be doing video games, you could be just, you know, in district commercial space, but you're specifically in education.

Does it go back to your background and those high school days and frustration?

Well, it starts with, it starts with, I want to work on something that has an impact.

I've done enough E commerce, I've done enough entertainment stuff, I've done enough gaming stuff where, like, for me, the excitement isn't in pushing out another big successful project.

Excitement is pushing out a big, successful project that can have an impact on people's lives.

Right?

So it's not for me, it's.

It's moving away from let's just do this to make money, to let us do this to change the world.

And so definitely healthcare was a part of it.

I've worked on a ton of healthcare stuff, ton of environmental stuff, and I'm focused on education because at one point in my life, somebody had mentioned this to me.

They said, I look for the keystone, like, where am I going to put my effort that's going to have the biggest foundational impact where everybody else can build on top of it.

They're looking for those types of problems.

They're looking for those types of things that they can put in place that, that really then create momentum for other people to go Further, and education is that for me, if we can improve the education system, if we can help people become better educated and be more successful and help them build a passion for lifetime learning, everything else about the world and society gets better.

Right?

Better educated people create better societies and they're able to solve more problems.

So it's, I can't solve every problem.

I can't solve every environmental problem, every healthcare problem.

Like, I'm just not, number one, probably not smart enough.

Number two, there's only one of me and I have to figure out what's my keystone that I'm going to put into place.

And so I'm focused on the education side of things, Keystone so that hopefully everyone else going forward can solve those other problems because they're better at.

We have a better educated society.

Can you share an example of where you use Brainly to solve an education problem and then spurred spur people on to do something great beyond that?

Yeah, I mean, the, the idea behind Brainly is that we're not trying to teach it better than the teacher.

So this is already a novel approach that when I tell people, yeah, Brainly isn't actually a product that's trying to teach, they kind of go, what?

What are you talking about?

This is an edtech product.

I see what you guys are doing.

Actually what we're doing is we're trying to support the existing education system by finding those learning gaps, finding where the students are struggling, helping to identify the root cause of why they're struggling, and then fill in that gap and help them build a stronger foundation within their existing classroom.

Like to understand, to solve those learning gaps, to solve those challenges so that they can be more successful in a classroom, get a better grade, ultimately get positive feedback from getting those better grades, creating that positive feedback loop.

And it seems really, really silly to say it on the surface, but when you dig into it, it really is about the smaller interactions with education that parenting can provide that can then help create a bigger impact in the classroom.

So when a kid asks a question on Brainleap, our goal is to give them an explanation, not an answer, an explanation that helps them understand the underlying concept.

But we're looking for why are you asking that question?

So we're not just giving you an explanation for the question you asked.

We're trying to understand why you're asking the question, address the root cause while we're giving you the explanation, and hopefully close that learning gap.

So when you go back in the classroom, you understand what the teacher's talking about and you're Ready for the next part of the lesson?

Ooh.

So can you give us an example of one where you normally you would get this and that would be the answer, but this kind of allows you to understand it on a deeper level.

Yeah.

So, I mean we're, we're, we're constantly improving how this works on branding, but you can see it today, it's most obvious in any type of math answer that you receive on Brandly.

Today we don't give you just the answer to the equation that you submitted to Brainly.

So if you, if you're stuck on an equation or maybe you've done your homework and you want to double check your answer on, on Brainlee, you submitted math equation, we're not just giving you the answer, we're showing you how to solve the equation step by step and we're explaining it along the way.

And this, this is all to support you learning the process of solving the equation, not just getting the answer to that one specific equation.

Hopefully by, by being exposed to this explanation and the consistency that we have, you're going to learn how to help yourself next time and be able to be more confident and more accurately solve that equation following that problem solving process that we're explaining to you.

So it's remembering, hey, last time we explained it this way and that seemed to work for you.

We're going to take that approach now, whether it's visual or audio or a combination of the two or, or whatever approach.

You know, I think it's such a big question.

Like last year my daughter was in six, she was in seventh grade and in sixth and seventh grade they were like, you will not use artificial intelligence.

Like that's, you're not going to do that.

And if you do, we're going to know if you use chat, GPT put the fear of God at them to like you use that kind of activity.

And this year in 8th grade there is some conversation but basically they're not allowed to use it.

I think it's a real problem for schools because the world is bringing this tool and a lot of schools are stumbling in terms of how does this, does this, how do we make it.

Sure, it helps the learning, not just, just stunt the learning.

And it sounds like you all have a very, this is a big thing for you all.

Are you working with school systems to help them envision how this is going to work K through 12.

So today the way that we.

Brainly is primarily a product for students.

It started as a product built by students for students.

Our founding leadership has Grown out of school.

Our founder and CEO Mihao is as well past the school days.

But, but the primary brainly experience is an outside of school experience.

It's okay, I'm at home.

Who.

Nobody's here to help me at home.

I don't have a teacher.

My parents were too busy or maybe they don't even know how to do this work.

Who do I ask for?

That would be me.

And so that's, that's the, that's how we primarily interface with people who use brandly.

But there is something called Brandy Lab.

And Brandy Lab is an in classroom product that we build and we release to select group of teachers that work with us very closely to learn how they.

To learn how they teach, to learn what tools they need in the classroom, to learn what tools their students need.

So this is kind of a place where we run a lot of experiments.

We try stuff out, we learn from the educators and the students who are using these tools.

It's not a product offering.

It's something we just do or to help educate ourselves.

Is it a monthly subscription for the, for people to use it at home individually or is that how.

Yeah, you can, you can pay per month or per year.

It's a subscription based product.

Yeah.

But we do have a free offering because part of our core value is that we want to provide these resources to everyone in the world, regardless of their background or resources.

So there's a lot you can get for branding on brandly for free and then there is a paid experience that gives you a bit more.

Wow.

All right, so thinking about this, what, what's the most surprising or one of the more surprising things or surprising moments that's happened since you stepped into this executive role at Brantley?

Oh man, there's a lot of surprises.

We are constantly adapting to the changing world around us.

Gen AI coming out obviously is a big disruptor for everyone.

We were really well positioned for it.

So I'm not going to say that Gen AI was a huge surprise.

We were early adopters, saw it coming and we were, we were ready for it.

So I think, I think the biggest sort of surprise or the biggest, the biggest impact that we had was something I already talked about, but it was a formal recognition that happened internally.

Like we talked about this and we did a bunch of research around it and it led us to this conclusion that we're not here to teach it better.

That was a really big surprise that we weren't already aligned on that and that we had to actually say that to ourselves and it was just like a light bulb went off at one point where it was like, actually, we don't all agree on this.

We don't all know that this is our purpose.

We need to clarify this and align on this.

Because we had a lot of product features being proposed which were the type of features which would replace the T shirt or would, you know, be teaching instead of the teacher.

And we had a really big debate and conversation internally where we had to just to recognize, like, that's not our job.

Our job isn't to try to teach it better.

We don't want to send kids to two schools.

We don't want them to go to their school during the day, get taught by their teacher in person, come home and take a different version of that class at night on Brayland.

That's not what we're here for.

So, like, our job isn't to teach it better or teach it different and make them go to a second school.

Our job is to figure out how they're learning, figure out what they're learning and how they're being taught, and then find the gaps in their education and fill those in.

And this is hugely powerful for us.

But it was a huge surprise that we didn't already know that.

We discovered that about ourselves and then it changed everything.

Everything that we do, every product feature we propose or would accept or invest in is now around how do we augment that existing school system, Support the teacher, support the student in what they're trying to accomplish in school.

Instead of, hey, let's just create our own curriculum, let's create our own version of that class.

Let's, let's start offering classes on branding where you can sign up and be, go to a class every once a week or whatever and be taught the same subject.

Like, that's not us.

Yeah, what.

First of all, like, I'm experiencing that like on a Pixar movie level, like at a high level, at a business side.

It's so important that we keep refining and understanding our business and our customers and the value we provide and just never give up, never assume that, hey, this is the way we're going to do it for the next 10 years.

We keep, it's almost like self interrogation, like we're, why are we providing value?

Who are we?

What are we becoming?

And you all were able to step into that.

So that's, that takes a lot of leadership, courage to have that conversation.

And it sounds like you bit off an even more complex problem because you've got to understand it's such A deep level.

Every child and how they learn.

Yeah, but.

And then you build your curriculum or your answers in the reverse way.

Schools like, hey, here it is.

Oh, you're not getting it, Here's a different way.

Oh, you're not getting that, Here's a different way.

Or they just, they present it, they're like, hey, you either get it or you have to come in early in the morning and I'm going to tell you a little slower or a little faster, right?

And instead you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

How do you learn best?

And it's such individualized experience.

How the heck are you doing that?

How do you understand the, how are you understanding the student first?

Well, it, I mean this is where technology plays a big role.

And you can see here that, that everything that I'm talking about has set us up for being able to adopt and adapt to what's happening in the world of, in the market in general with Gen AI.

So we had this recognition, we came to this conclusion and then we started heavily investing in building these tools and technologies that could deliver on this promise that, that, that could help us understand what the student needed and address root cause.

Doing this, you know, having that mindset, taking that, that, that stance and coming at the problem from that angle, then set up a series of investments that positioned us to be able to innovate and leverage new technology as it came online more quickly.

Like I always tell people, we needed, we needed GPT before GPT was ready for us.

We evaluated GPT before GPT 3.5.

Like that was the big thing that everybody, or chat.

GPT was the big thing that everybody recognized.

But we were looking at GPT, the API before that.

We're like, no, it's not ready, like we need something like this, but it's not ready.

And then when GPT 3.5 came around, that was the big breakthrough.

And we were like, this is what we needed.

This is going to speed us up a couple years because our roadmap was to build something that could do some similar things.

So we were like, great, now we can use it off the shelf.

Or at least this is going to help us speed up our roadmap.

But it really is about like finding that, finding that, that, that definition, finding that angle, finding that approach and then all of the subsequent investments that you make, all of the steps that you make to deliver on that, it's generally not going to be a short term goal.

It's going to be sort of this long march that becomes your business that becomes your investment strategy.

And then everything around you as it changes, you just need to say, how is this helping or hurting?

But your eyes are on the goal.

The path to the goal can change, but as long as your eyes are on the goal, you're able to adopt and adapt more quickly.

We weren't saying we're going to build something based on the technology of today.

We were saying we're going to build this outcome and how we get there.

We'll figure it out as we go, incrementally deliver on that goal and build towards it.

So we're really able to adapt.

Yeah, so much going on in that.

But what I sense is that clarity of how you're going to add value, how you want to add value, and then you can just make decisions so much more effective.

Where are you going to invest your money?

Where are you going to invest?

Ever show your team?

How does your team's to do list look every day?

Is it aligned with that?

And if we don't lead our.

If we don't take the time as leaders to figure out that clarity and then communicate it, we're not.

We're just running a business.

We're actually running it to accomplish a bigger goal.

And it sounds like brainly.

I mean, y'all are.

Y'all have got that sense of clarity, and it's just delivering big results for you and all these students.

10 million.

Yeah, million.

I mean, that's a lot of people.

Yeah, there.

There's.

There's markets that we're a household name in.

I think there was at one point, man, one of our.

One of our market people, marketing people, came to me and said, every student in Poland has used brain.

I was like, that's insane.

Like, that's just amazing.

We're a company founded in Poland, by the way, so that was a big deal for us.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, okay, man, you and I could keep riffing because there's a lot.

I got a lot.

But we got to.

We got to land the plane here at some point.

All right, so take it as you will, but where.

Either one, you can just talk about your legacy and looking down the road in terms of what you'd hoped that would be or.

And.

Or a parting thought for our listeners.

I think.

I think if you want to take one thing like the sum of what I'm describing, what has worked for us and how I would suggest you build your business or how you position your business to be.

To be resilient, to change, I would say that if your.

If your goals are defined as how you're going to accomplish what you want instead of what you want to accomplish.

You need to reevaluate defining how you want to accomplish something.

That's the operational aspects of it.

That's the tactical and operational aspects.

Leadership needs to be focused on what are we building, what is the goal, what is the end state?

And then being ready to be ready to adapt to change.

If you're too married to the how, if your goal is the how, you're stuck.

You're already going to have to, like, replan everything as.

As technology advances and AI is going to disrupt that AI.

AI is advancing so quickly.

I don't imagine anybody right now should be defining the how in longer than 12 months.

So to leaders out there who define goals for their.

For their company, for their employees, as a how they're going to accomplish it instead of a what and the impact and the outcomes, reevaluate.

Rethink that.

Go back to first principles and say, why are we doing this?

If you can't describe that in terms of impact to your customers, to your users, to the world around you.

Whatever your, you know, reason for getting up in the morning is, you can't define it in those pragmatic terms.

You don't have clarity on what you're doing.

Great place to finish this up because AI is really messing with companies that focus on the how.

And you've got a leader in AI saying, hey, y'all, it's not about the how, it's not about the AI.

It's about the what you're accomplishing.

And then you can work in the AI to support that.

Love that.

That's right, man.

Bill, thanks for coming on.

Lead the team, my friend.

Yeah, thank you.

Want to boost your productivity and decision making?

Get vital insights from each episode delivered directly to your inbox.

A great resource whether you've listened to the episode or not.

Go to benfanning.com insight.