. Dennis Collins: Hello, everyone.

Welcome to another episode of Connect and Convert, a podcast where we

share with small business owners insider secrets to grow your sales.

faster than ever.

I'm Dennis Collins.

And hi, I'm Leah Bumfrey.

Hi, Leah.

You you came back.

I was hoping you'd keep joining me.

I thought.

Oh, you

don't you don't you can't scare me away that easily,

Dennis.

Good.

We're glad to have you.

Hey, we have a special special guest today, Leah.

Uh we're gonna take a deep dive into the brain of a subject matter expert.

Okay, this guy has a lot of information, and he's got a very

big title to go along with it.

His name is Paul Boomer.

His title is Employee Relationship, I'm sorry, Employee and Leadership

Optimization, Company Culture Advisor, Wizard of Ads, Managing Partner.

Wow.

That's not just fooling around,

that's real stuff.

That's real stuff.

And believe me, uh, if you ever see his class, Paul Boomer

come up on the wizardacademy.

org site.

Take it.

It's a transformational class.

You will never think about leadership and culture the same way again.

It gets you right where it counts.

So I highly recommend it.

We thank Wizard of Ads, or I'm sorry, Wizard Academy, for being

a sponsor of Connect and Convert.

I know you think highly of it.

There are so

many great Absolutely.

There's so many great instructors, and the fact that we get to interview

Paul, we've had a few on, this is just stupendous, and you and I both

are, well, the Academy's close to our hearts, but check out wizardacademy.

org.

There are so many courses, there's so much information.

Do it.

If you're a small business owner, it's worth your time.

Totally.

Uh, of all the things about Paul Boomer, though, the thing that's

special to us is that he's a colleague.

A fellow Wizard of Ads partner, okay?

He's a friend.

But most of all, he is the producer of Connect and Convert.

Without Paul Boomer, you would not be seeing Leah or me, or hearing Leah or me.

That's

literally, literally you would not be able to.

You and I are not the tech giants.

We're not even the tech midgets.

We need Boomer in our life.

Technical bypass.

Very successful technical bypass for me.

So, So, today, what are we going to try to do with Paul?

So, provide our small business owners with a framework to uncover the good,

the bad, the ugly about leadership inside their company and cultural issues.

Hey Paul, are you there?

Paul M. Boomer: I am

sir.

With the big mic.

There we go.

Usually, usually behind the scenes, but today we are proud,

honored to have him as our guest.

So let's jump right in.

Anything else you want to add to your resume?

I mean, you know, I tried to think of the things that I think

are most important, but do you have anything you'd like to add?

Paul M. Boomer: I.

No, I have plenty of things I could add, but I don't think we have enough

time for everything we want to talk

about.

I know.

I mean, it would take a long time because

your resume is extensive.

But the most important point we want to make today is you are the subject matter

expert on all things leadership and culture, particularly in small businesses.

That's the point we want to make today.

So let me ask you just, you know, the basic question.

How did you get into this?

Why did you decide to go that direction?

There's, you know, the Wizard of Oz partners do a lot of different things.

Why did you choose this particular direction?

Paul M. Boomer: Leadership to me is a key to really advancing humanity

without it, without somebody, without people who truly want to help others.

And make progress in everything other than just humanity, but uh, you know

financially and resourcefully and such You have to have good leadership to understand

How it all plays together and one of the key things that that brought me here was

in high school, uh actually before that I was in special education and I very much

doubted myself a lot of the time and for whatever reason, throughout my, my entire

career in, as a student, I was put into leadership roles and I just kind of didn't

understand why I'm like, why am I here?

Why am I here?

And I kind of lost that, but then something unfortunate happened, which

is, well, lots of little unfortunate things happen for instance, my,

my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and metastatic breast cancer.

And then my father, uh, he, he passed away suddenly and he worked for a company.

For his one company for his entire life.

And it was a rough time with that company at times.

And it taught me a lot.

And because of that, I've come back to, okay, how can I take what I have already

experienced and help others help others?

Because I can only, you know, help a few people, but if I can help

leaders, they're already helping 20, 30, 50, 1500 people at once.

Wow.

That's, that's very.

Very moving.

I mean, very, uh, emotional, very, very an interesting why, Leah,

that's, how did that strike you?

Well, you know

what, anything that we do in this world, if someone

tells us to do it, eh, we'll do it.

But if it's from our heart?

We do it really well.

That's, that's why Paul does this so well.

You know, you're right, and the man has a heart of gold.

Uh, I sometimes tell him he doesn't know when to say no.

Because he will just, yeah, he will just do it.

That's who Paul Boomer is.

So, thank you for sharing that very personal reflection.

Um, on, on why you do this.

So, so can we jump right in to the deep end of the pool?

Come on.

Absolutely.

What do you, what do you see?

What do you see today as you look around and talk to people and

clients and would be clients, what are the biggest leadership problems

that small businesses face today?

Paul M. Boomer: That they're unwilling to actually look at themselves and the

potential that they have to accelerate.

Their own business and themselves and the people inside.

So I like the word you use accelerate.

Do you, obviously you have some idea that leadership accelerates business.

Talk to me about that.

Talk to us.

Paul M. Boomer: Absolutely.

Of course.

You know, if let's just imagine somebody is in the position of let's talk about

managers, let's say, and they're just kind of in, you know, The mode of autopilot

taking care of, of their direct reports.

And I'm not saying taking care of as in coddling, coddling them or not

coddling them and being very strict and to the point and, and such, but

they are understanding of personal establishments, personal behaviors, uh,

psychology, uh, all these things along with work habits, along with the thing.

That, that person is in that job to do, if they, if a manager understands that and

can combine it, you now have an employee who will work harder because they want

to, because they are there on purpose.

And they might have some struggles sometimes here and there, but that's

what a manager is there to do.

It's not to tell them how to do the job.

It's to tell them, here's my expectations based off of X, Y, and Z.

How do you think you can do it better?

And without that manager role, that, and that goes from anywhere

from the very bottom of a tree, so to speak, uh, employee tree

all the way up to the very top.

So the person who owns the company, if you don't have that understanding,

you're just kind of sailing in the wind, just kind of going in a wet

direction, but you're not getting there with focus and it's slowing you down.

Leah, does that, you know, you have been.

You know, in the workplace for a while, a couple of years, any of that.

Yeah.

Two or three years, you know, no big deal, but you've probably formed some

opinions about what Boomer just said.

I'd love your take on that.

Well,

yeah, it's again, it's that purpose of, of what, what you

need for people that you're choosing to follow or that you have to follow

nothing worse than having to follow someone who's not leading properly.

Or is leading half the flock.

That's tough, that is really tough to see someone who is able to, you know,

properly manage some, but not all of, of the people that they're, they're charged

with, with helping create success.

And sometimes people will make an excuse for that.

And I'd like your take on this, Paul, because, you know, they'll say, Oh,

well, it's easier to manage that person or that person is, is, is

just, there's a connection there.

Not so much a connection over here.

How, what's your response to that?

I'm

Paul M. Boomer: curious.

Yeah, I've, I've, I've seen that happen many, many times.

And when that happens, there's two, two sides of this.

When that happens, the person who's not getting, um, the attention that they,

they deserve, they are kind of the canary in the coal mine where they start going.

I don't know if I want to be here.

I, I, I'm not getting what I need now.

And their productivity goes down.

And they're very likely one of the best employees that you don't know you have

and they leave and that's a horrible thing to experience because you just

missed out on a great opportunity now for the manager from their perspective,

they must understand that yes, there may not be a deeper connection

with that individual, but it's your responsibility to figure out what and

how to have that deeper conversation or that deeper, deeper relationship.

That is the job of a manager,

but Paul, that having been a manager most of my life,

um, that's easier said than done.

Paul M. Boomer: Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

And why, why is that?

What's, what's going on in the brain of the

Paul M. Boomer: leader?

Well, I mean, I'm going to, you know, kind of pull you out, uh, here and point

the finger at you, Dennis, social styles.

Social styles.

I can take it.

You know, I know.

Oh, I know.

But people are intrinsically different.

I mean, we come on, there's no two people who are truly exactly alike.

Now, the three of us.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Now, I am a Myers Briggs type indicator, uh, uh, certified practitioner,

which means if you've ever heard of ENFP, INFP, four letters and

such, um, I can do that assessment.

You, Dennis, you have the social styles.

Those two are very closely related.

But we know that if we understand each other in the language that you think,

Dennis, in the language that you think, Leah, I can change the way I address you.

So that I'm speaking your language.

So it's, what we, uh, The Wizard of Oz says quite a lot is speak to

the dog in the language of the dog.

Speak to the person in the language of the person.

And just by doing that, just by stretching to somewhere that may be a little

uncomfortable for you, you're showing your employee that you care and you create,

you start creating a deeper relationship.

Now, there's things that need to be done after that and continuously,

but that's a great place to start is just communication.

Excellent point.

I want to, I want to tag onto that in one second, but I also want

to mention you brought up Myers Briggs and you are a certified.

Practitioner of Myers Briggs, and you're also certified in

the leadership circle, right?

Yes.

I don't know the full title.

I think, but why don't you explain to our listeners what that

Paul M. Boomer: is?

Absolutely.

So the leadership circle profile is one of the absolute best.

I'm going to say a word that people go and go, no, it's at the very basic.

It is a three 60 assessment, meaning.

I evaluate myself, my boss evaluates me, my peers evaluate me, some of my

friends might evaluate me, my direct reports evaluate me, and all these

surveys kind of come into one thing and says, here you go, here's what,

what, how you're seeing, uh, how you see yourself versus how others see you.

Now, the reason why I say a lot of people just kind of screech it

at 360 is because most of them are like, okay, here's the survey, uh,

responses and here's your problems now.

Go fix them.

That's about it.

That's where it leaves off.

What

Paul M. Boomer: I love about the, uh, leader, uh, the leadership circle is

the fact that they spent over 25 years researching with the top people in all

in psychology, in sociology, in social sociology, in adult learning process,

uh, uh, adult learning and business, everything they took their time and they.

Have decided, Hey, what got you here today as a leader is phenomenal.

You're a leader because there's a reason let's celebrate that reason.

However, here are some other things that are directly tied to business success and

growth that you may not be great at, and they point those out and they show you

where you've been and where you could go.

Very successfully, if you have the right 360 or the right

person to collaborate with.

Oh.

That's hard.

You know, I have used that in social styles.

They also have a 360 program.

Paul M. Boomer: Can I actually add something?

Sorry?

Can I add something?

Oh, of course.

Let me put it in a slightly better It's your show.

Easier Well, that is true.

I do have the buttons

here.

You have control more than more than you know.

All

Paul M. Boomer: right.

Well, good point.

Good point.

The um, other way that I explain it is it's like a 10 speed bicycle

where you have it in the lowest gear and you're pedaling fast,

fast, fast, fast, fast, fast.

And you're just huffing and puffing and you, but you're

going like two miles an hour.

You're like, Oh my gosh, I'm not going to get there.

And I'm going to just collapse.

Right?

Yeah.

The other side is you have it on highest gear and you're pedaling.

And you just, you're, oh my god, your legs are burning and everything.

What the Leadership Circle profile is, the gear ratio saying, Okay, here's the

great gear ratio that works best for you.

So you can get up to speed as quickly as possible and then get even further.

Wow.

You have explained it to me several times and that was, I

think, your best explanation.

I, I, You help advance my knowledge on that.

Let's say someone who's listening is saying, Damn, I'd like to do that.

Okay, well, we'll talk certainly towards the end of this podcast

episode, but how do they reach you?

How can they find out more about this?

The

Paul M. Boomer: easiest thing to do is, is email me directly.

It's PaulBoomer at WizardOfAds.

com or you can go to WizardOfAds.

com and find me in the partner list and you can reach me through that.

Um,

I hope a lot of our listeners will do

that a couple of other quick,

Paul M. Boomer: or you can just simply email us info, info at

convert, uh, connecting convert.

com and it comes to all three of us one way

or another, if someone needs you, there's no reason not to find you,

Paul M. Boomer: you're there, you know,

a couple of quick questions now that's, that

occurred to me, okay, let, let's get down to real life scenario.

Okay.

You've identified in your small business, a leadership problem.

Now, what do

Paul M. Boomer: I do?

So I would always recommend starting with, uh, uh, the leadership circle

profile, because that really opens up the floodgates of understanding

who you are, how you act, why you, and having conversations around that,

and also seeing how people see you because you're It's hard to read the

label from, from inside the bottle.

Right.

So being able to understand that nuance is utterly important.

So take a leadership circle profile and then have a conversation with a

trusted mentor about, okay, here's why I might be, um, a micromanager,

which is very common, very common, especially in, in, in the higher uh,

leadership roles and what's amazing.

Is they can, after conversations, they can pinpoint exactly why

they might be micromanager.

For instance, I have a client right now who, um, grew up,

who's extremely micromanaging.

He, he, he does not allow a penny to go out or in unless he knows about

it, even though he has somebody who takes care of that, right?

But he has control because he grew up in a family that had what, that their,

his father was, um, was an alcoholic.

He had to take control of his own life for him to survive.

That's what I'm talking about.

So if you understand that and you understand where you're going, have

those conversations with a mentor and then have your leadership,

excuse me, leadership team have that same conversations individually.

And then as a group, Hey, Dennis, here's what I'm trying to stretch.

I need your help.

Can you do that?

Are you willing to do that for me?

How can I help you having those conversations immediately changes how

the operations work, how leadership team works together and individually.

So it comes down to recognition.

And what's almost frightening is I can tell the success of a company by

how much the leadership team reflects on themselves, because if they don't

reflect, they're not going very far.

They might just be an autopilot, but if they're more willing to reflect on

themselves, they will put that wind in those sails and carry on pretty fast.

So,

uh, interesting.

I mean, what I, what I hear, and that was a great explanation again

of what do I do, but it sounds to me like your best course of action

is to get outside help and opinions.

It's very hard to do this.

Inside the bottle, as you said, would

Paul M. Boomer: that be accurate?

No, absolutely.

And, and I think, uh, you both of you know about Johari's window.

It's kind of the same concept of, of, you know, being inside the bottle.

You have the known self known by others, but not, not known myself and so on

and so forth, and that's another time.

But, um, there's a quadrant that's not known to self and not known by others.

Yep.

You're just never going to know these things unless you seek them out.

It's that dark corner in the room.

We all know about those dark corners.

Paul M. Boomer: We all know about those dark corners and they affect us.

They affect us in everything that we do every single day.

See, and that's, that's the point.

I don't think my, again, from what I've seen over all my 153 years doing this.

Is that a lot of small business owners don't see this, this is a blind spot.

It's a blind spot for them personally.

And it's a blind spot about their leadership team.

Yeah.

It's virtually the only way to see it.

It, how do you get rid of a blind spot?

You know, I mean,

Paul M. Boomer: look, you have

another spot or you got to have another view, another outlook,

Paul M. Boomer: right?

Yeah, absolutely.

And without them, you're It's without them, it's becomes extremely difficult.

You can do it, but it is slow.

Okay.

So not to put you on the spot, Paul, but what happens if somebody is, uh,

let's say there's a team and somebody is elevated to the position of leader,

the position of manager outside the team, I've heard both arguments for and

against that, what you're saying, it kind of brought that into my head because

essentially, if you're working with a peer group, those peers, no, Know the stuff

that you're not good at better than the person you're supposedly working for.

So it's now all of a sudden they're working for you.

How does that end up?

Is it a good thing?

Can it

Paul M. Boomer: be a good thing?

It can absolutely be a good thing because what that forces an

organization to do, and there's, there's a process to go through this.

It always has to start from the very top before you can really do this.

And let me explain why that is.

In order to do this well, you have to have psychological safety.

Meaning if I'm going to converse with my boss about something that might

be a little touchy, I have to know that I'm not going to be canned.

I'm not going to have repercussions.

So you have to do this from the very top so that everybody else sees, okay, I see

that there's psychological safety here.

And then you start very slowly kind of going down, down the pipeline.

It's extremely useful.

Other thing that goes with that is both parties or all parties have to be

willing to keep their ears and eyes open.

And no, we're not here to, to, to make each other feel bad or anything.

No, we're here for a purpose.

Our purpose is this we're doing this thing over here, this three 60 or

whatever, to be better at the purpose at getting somewhere that we want to go.

You know, that, that's a very common thing because something

about self assessments is.

Well, I'm not going to write down my, I don't know if, I don't know if

they're going to know my name or not.

And, and so they're not going to be honest with their boss because they

don't know, because there are so many stories out there, unfortunately,

where names are shared, even though it was supposed to be anonymous.

Yep.

And then all of a sudden, a few weeks later, they're gone.

Well, here's the thing about this as well with this, uh, specific,

uh, tool that I have in my pocket.

I don't even know who said what.

, and I'm the one administering it.

Yeah.

So I don't even know if Leah, you say something about Dennis.

I, I don't know that she, she'd tell

me to my, we,

we promised that we weren't gonna talk

about that.

No, Leah would tell me to my face.

She would learn it right out.

There's no doubt in my mind.

Anyways, I know we're running short on time, but I want to, we've

talked about some of the negatives.

Let's close this out on a positive.

Okay.

What are the positive benefits of great leadership?

When you have great leadership, what wonderful things happen

to you and your business?

Paul M. Boomer: I was going to say, I'm going to keep it to business.

First and foremost, you become more profitable very quickly.

Second, you become a, somewhere that some place that's people want to work.

Recruiting becomes easier.

Keeping people in the business becomes easier and you continue to make the

difference that you want to make.

However, whatever that is, it accelerates everything.

You've used that word a couple of times.

Accelerate.

I love the word.

That's a very active word, isn't it?

It connotes forward movement, fast forward movement.

Yes, that's what it's about.

What, this is like a master class, Leah.

It is.

Here's the

Paul M. Boomer: problem, guys.

We don't have enough time to talk about this stuff.

Because it is such a large topic.

And there's so many gurus out there who only scratch the surface.

And that's the problem.

There's so, so much more below that, that you have to understand to really

get it and really, uh, get your business to go where you want it to go.

Well, I

think we have to pursue this another time, and, uh, there's

just too much that we should still be covering, so, I, we know where to

find you, everyone does, but let's make it easy and find you here.

Will you join us again for another episode?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Uh, this has been wonderful.

I thank you not only for your excellent production skills,

but your wealth of knowledge.

Uh, you're definitely the subject matter expert in business leadership.

And business culture.

And our listeners got just a little taste of that today.

Just a little bitty taste.

So, we'll welcome you back, Paul Boomer, Wizard of Ads, partner,

and Paul Boomer at WizardOfAds.

com That's how you find this gentleman.

He's worth finding.

Right, Leah?

Gotcha.

Okay, guys.

Thank you both.

We're, we're signing off this edition of Connect and Convert.

Stay tuned.

We'll be back next time.