Welcome back to another episode of Turning the Table.

My name's Jim Taylor, for those of you who don't know, and if we haven't had a chance

to connect before, thanks for joining us.

Really looking forward to our conversation today.

We've got exciting, sort of an exciting topic that's a little bit different than

what we sometimes normally talk about.

You know, maybe we get into operations a little bit, but what we're really

gonna talk about today with someone that we've been looking forward to having

on the show is about kind of how the sport and entertainment and hospitality.

Worlds are kind of colliding.

So we'll be right back after a quick little message to welcome TJ Sheer,

C o of big shots golf to the show.

Thanks for joining us.

Welcome to Turning the Table, the most Progressive Weekly podcast for

today's food and beverage industry, featuring staff centric operating

solutions for restaurants in the hashtag new hospitality culture.

Join Jim Taylor, benchmark 60 and Adam Lamb as they turn the tables on

the prevailing operating assumptions of running a restaurant in favor

of innovative solutions to our industry's most persistent challenges.

Thanks for joining us and now, Onto the show.

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Tj, welcome

to the show.

Hey, good morning.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for making some time for us.

Yeah.

Appreciate it.

So BigShots Golf.

We were talking before the show, we're hearing a lot about all these

different, you know, concepts that are you know, combining sports and

entertainment with hospitality.

So I'm excited to talk to you about that.

But can you just kind of introduce yourself a little bit, where

you came from, what's your.

I, you told me you had some pretty extensive background in the industry,

so love to hear a little bit about it.

I've got a, crooked career path.

You know, it really started way back in college.

I was working at Chuck e Cheese Pizza of all places in the eighties and kinda

worked my way up to VP of field support.

So I was there in the, you know, late nineties when they kind of boomed

and, they're still booming today.

But learned a.

A bunch about family entertainment, center business and kind of

tying in entertainment and, food.

And I know people may argue that Chuck E Cheese isn't real food but, it is.

Absolutely.

I left in oh one and started a consulting and speaking business,

so I, I did that for 20 years and a big chunk of those 20 years.

A group of friends and I were the largest franchisee for a brand called

Witch, witch Superior Sandwiches.

So, you know, I was a consultant helping others.

I was doing a lot of speaking in the franchise and team building

world, but then I also built.

You know, our own company with a group of, guys that I worked with.

So I was a practitioner while I was also a speaker and a consultant and,

I always tell everybody that was kinda my business PhD owning that

business and learning things about leases and construction, and I.

How to get sued and how not to get sued and stuff that you might not learn.

You know, growing up in a chain.

And then about two and a half years ago, I started with a unique

opportunity here at Big Shots Golf.

We had one venue when I got here, we're owned by a company called Invited Clubs,

which used to be known as Club Corp.

And so our parent manages around 200 country clubs.

They've got a sports stadium division that they manage, some college

football stadiums, and then some private city clubs and then big shots.

Golf is the golf entertainment.

Aspect, which is their fourth silo of their business.

So it's been a fun ride and I've loved kind of tying together golf and food and

bar and hospitality all into one here.

So were you a golfer before you joined

Big shots?

I, am a golfer.

I'm not as good as I used to be and golf's a tough game to master.

But yeah, I worked at a country club in high school and caddied, and so

I've always just loved golf and it was, this was a real fun way to kind of put

together a bunch of passions all in one.

Yeah, no kidding.

We've had a couple of good discussions about golf on our,

on the show in the last six months.

It is interesting.

I, love golf and I play as often as I can, but you're right, it's tough to

master and, you know, all those things.

But we've actually had the discussion about golf being therapy on the

show before about the mental health side of, you know, how it actually

is sometimes very good for people

mentally.

Oh yeah.

You know, there's not a lot of silver linings with covid, but I

think the golf industry was perhaps one of the biggest beneficiaries

because it was an outdoor thing.

It got, I mean, the growth of the game had really stagnated prior to

that, and it exploded during covid.

It's very tough to get a tee time at a golf course or country club memberships.

Now were filled up.

A lot of people on the waiting list here.

And yeah, it's maddening while you're playing it, but in a lot

of ways it's, really just kind of to get out, get outside.

I love to walk and carry my bag and, you know, just kind of just stop thinking

about your cell phone and, answering emails and work and all that stuff.

Yeah, absolutely.

So you said that there are seven locations with big shots.

I mean, and so how, old's the company?

Three, four

years.

So our parent company bought this a few years ago from the founder who came

up with the idea, the golf technology.

Obviously the, you know, there's a big 800 pound gorilla in this industry

that paved the runway for this.

And, you know, mad respect for everything that they've done because, you know,

if we go to put 180 foot high nets up in there, everybody thinks they know

what they're getting in their town.

Which helps us, and we obviously have to educate him on what, how we're different.

But we bought this brand from an individual and he had signed a

bunch of franchise agreements.

We, kind of bought the brand right before I got here.

I.

Clean, cleaned up a lot of those franchise agreements, but our first

few locations actually opened as a franchise as franchisees, which is

kind of backwards from what most, most brands do, so, our first four locations

that were opened were franchised.

The next three that we've opened were corporately owned, or one

of them is a franchise owned, but we operate it, which is kind of

more of what we're trying to do.

We're trying to do a mix of owning.

Or operating, which is how our country club model works.

And interesting.

So we have our own gaming and our own technology.

You know, we're similar to the other place, little smaller, going

into smaller towns, but it's a golf entertainment facility and where we

try and differentiate, we have an internal line that says always better.

A l weighs better.

You know, we're not the first Okay.

So we, have to be better.

And so we're, trying to do better food.

A better golf tech, a better guest experience.

And the big gorilla out there does a great job.

I mean, they really do.

They do.

They've, really paved the runway, so kudos to them.

We just, we're going into smaller markets, we have to have more frequency 'cause

there's less people that live there.

And so instead of just coming in one or two times a year for a

special occasion, we are trying to get them to come in all the time.

We have a branded restaurant in our venues called Anthem Kitchen and Bar.

And you know, I want somebody when they look at their phone to say,

Hey, where restaurants near me?

Well if big shots of golf comes up, nobody's gonna go there to eat.

But if they see Anthem Kitchen and Bar and they look at the menu and

it's kick ass sports bar and they look at where, well where is it?

Well, it's inside big shots golf.

And so, you know, we've just tried to.

To drive frequency into our venues through things like that.

And a lot of programming like, you know, theme trivia nights and karaoke

and, some of those other fun things that you might not think of doing.

But we have to do that in our venues 'cause we're in smaller markets.

Makes total sense and mean.

You and I were chatting, we were chatting right before we jumped on the show today

about this other company that exists, a couple little locations in Canada and.

You know, I've got friends who go and play once a week, all year round in

the middle of the winter with heaters and they're wearing a, you know,

winter coat and still playing golf.

I mean it, the frequency concept really makes sense.

I.

It does.

And I, and again I, don't mind, you know, launchpad up in Calvary does a great job.

I, think Curiosity is a leadership superpower.

And so, you know, when I got here, I knew what I knew from the main

competitor, but I've gone out and, we built our first few locations, but as

we move forward in our brand we've, looked at, there are things like what,

launchpad does with automatic vault.

You know, the T.

The T automatically tees it up for you.

It's adjustable man.

Everybody hates that in the existing venues, the T Heights

one Heights, it's too small.

It's too low for the driver, it's too high for a brand new

person learning to hit an iron.

So, you know, they have neon lit targets out in the range, so

there's a little more interactivity.

So we actually spent, as we were open in our locations, a large amount of

time visiting all the competitive socializing places so that as we

build our new prototype coming into.

Late 2024 when our next wave of facilities will open we're gonna essentially

have the best of the putting concepts, the best of the indoor simulator

concepts and the best of the outdoor range concepts all in one place.

Because we do wanna move into major markets.

We do want to drive revenues and, we have to have a better product.

I can't put my current product today, anywhere near the existing product.

Because it's, they're so well known that best known Beats best, I think is

a slogan I've heard a long time ago.

Sure.

So if we wanna beat the best known we have to, essentially

build a better mousetrap entirely.

Yeah.

So, competitive entertainment, I heard you say that, that's, is that sort of

what you're, what you call the category?

Yeah, it's called, I think a competitive socializing

is, really competitive social.

So you look at, especially like we have a venue over in the uk, so I've

been over there a number of times.

And they've got, F one has a facility now and, there's darts and there's,

actually a soccer or football one over there called Toka Social.

Over here in the US I've seen baseball, cricket basketball.

Absolutely, there's all these kind of competitive socializing places, let

alone all the, you know, the indoor amusement parks and, trampoline parks

and things that are kind of more in the family entertainment center

that are geared for younger crowd.

But, you know, the putting concepts here have exploded in the US

and, there's a number of them.

Indoor, outdoor yeah, there's probably four brands I can

think of off the top of my head.

And it's just it's, a great way for people to go out, get

together, have a little fun.

It's, you know, it's kind of just modernizing the old bowling alley

and some of those things, right.

Are the only things to do from a competitive socializing back in the day.

Well and, even the bowling alley thing is starting to come back.

I mean, there's a few concepts that I've seen that are essentially a full nightclub

with a bowl, with bowling alleys in them, and they're, yeah they're, really hard

to even, you know, get a reservation in those places where every other bowling

alley in the market might not be.

All that busy.

So, yeah, you know, I think it's,

you look at the consumer, you kind of merging sports and hospitality.

It's not, back in the day when I was growing up, it was either

Bowling Alley had a snack bar and you know, they may have served beer.

And, now what you look at, I mean there's axe throwing, there's escape rooms.

I mean this stuff just keeps going on and on.

But everybody is trying to create an elevated food or bar experience

and, adding some sort of technology.

'cause I think.

Going back to my Chuck e Cheese days, the one thing I learned

from them that you, have to keep your brand relevant and fresh.

And you look at a lot of restaurants and, a, especially a lot of family

entertainment centers and the competitive socializing places.

Their first year is the busiest year.

And that's not a way to run a healthy business.

You can keep building a bunch of those, but at some point the new growth can

outpace the, same store sales decline.

You have to have that ability, whether it's through technology or facility,

refreshes to go in there and, reinvent it.

And, Chuck E.

Cheese has perfected that, they're 45 years into this thing.

It's still cranking away.

And I, look at the landscape out there and I, think in five or 10 years a lot

of these players are gonna be gone.

Because the newness and the gimmick that you're built around will wear off.

I mean, pickle balls is one of these things that's gone insane lately around

here in the US and and it's great.

I, play pickleball.

I love it.

It's, awesome.

But it's also, it's all about the spectator experience and I

think that's where a lot of people miss the boat in these places.

You've gotta if, you're putting.

You're not gonna be, you know, playing mini golf the whole time, or putting,

you're gonna be either watching others or you're waiting for your turn to play, so.

You know the, people that are in this space really have to

ensure they understand the spectator experience as well.

Yeah.

Great point.

And I, really like, you know, we try to always make sure on our, on any of

our episodes that there are, for anyone who's listening, maybe some takeaways

that people can go, okay, you know, if I'm running a business, whether

it's in competitive socializing or you know, sports and entertainment or just.

A restaurant, maybe it's a corner, family restaurant in, you know, whatever market.

We wanna make sure that they have some sort of takeaways.

And I think you just said that your first year can't be your busiest

year and you have to reinvent.

I think that's a really good piece of advice.

So we'll try catching a couple other ones from you, but that's a really good one.

I mean, I think the other thing, if you guys follow me

on LinkedIn or whatever I, do a lot of leadership tips and I have a,

big business crush on a few brands.

I think Walk-On Sports Bar does a great job.

They've kind of just taken that sports bar experience, but having gotten

to experience how they train their employees and some of the culture

and, just as a little piece that I've learned from them that I put

in here, you know, when you go to.

When you play a college basketball as an example if you red shirt your

freshman year, you're not allowed to play, but you're part of the team.

And so when you go to Walk-Ons as a new employee, all the new employees

wear red shirts until they make the team when they're done with training.

So we did something like that here, similar big shots.

We, gave everybody a green shirt 'cause everybody's green until they're ready.

And then we give them the real uniform shirts.

And, so, you know, we studied things like that and so you

know, we pull pieces from, other.

Hospitality companies, the Pal Sudden Service is like the master company for how

to just set up really structured systems to replicate growth and I think the one

that we've really pulled from lately here is the Savannah Bananas baseball team.

They, basically just reinvented baseball and called it, you know,

banana ball and reinvented the rules.

And, you know, when you look at just making the experience fun

for the fan in their case, and for us it's for the spectator.

And, so really, If I was running a restaurant today, and we are, I mean we

have a pretty high volume food service operation in our facilities, but I've been

in the restaurant business since I was 16.

And you look at the ability to personalize the experience, deliver

the experience that guest wants.

And the nice thing is now we have technology.

We might have their name if they placed an order online to pick it up.

We might have a reservation system so that we know they have a birthday

celebration when they come in and using all those little clues to really.

While the guest with that technology, no matter what business

you're in, the hospitality world.

Absolutely tho those are some simple takeaways that, that I

would encourage everybody to do.

So

your restaurant anthem, is it?

Because a lot of the, places the, and I need to make sure I say this right, but

the competitive socializing businesses.

Yeah.

A lot of 'em, you're in the space.

You're playing the games, you're doing your thing and your food comes there.

Is Anthem a separate dining space?

It, is.

So we have I, I think when a lot of these places, you know, especially in our case

in the golf entertainment world you get on a long wait on a Friday night or Saturday.

One of the challenges in our business is you have, whether you have 30 tee

boxes or a hundred they're booked on Friday nights and Saturdays.

And so when somebody comes in and they have to wait two hours I don't

want 'em to go eat somewhere else.

Very true.

I certainly don't want 'em to go off property, so I want 'em to

come in and eat in our restaurant.

The competitor did this long ago.

We didn't invent this.

But we wanted, we want them to come to Anthem just to eat,

whether they play golf or not.

You know, Monday to Thursday, I have plenty of excess capacity.

Come on in and have some great burgers.

You know, we do hand breaded wings.

We do an elevated sports bar food because again, I need them to come in frequently.

I want them to come watch the game, host their draft fantasy football

draft party here in our venue.

And you have to have better food when you're first in

the, and you own the market.

You don't have to focus on these things 'cause there's no other choice and

any of us that get into this space.

The one thing I always I, still get a lot of phone calls from people and

I've, met with the, you know, the guys in the cricket places and the baseball

places and we had the same thing here.

We, we try and.

Overdo the food from a menu standpoint.

We had kale, this and quinoa that.

And you know what, when people are here, they want burgers and wings.

And the quinoa and the kale didn't sell.

And everybody tries to differentiate themselves so much on the menu.

We hired a food consultant that Does a phenomenal job and I'm, I

can give somebody their, information off, you know, off the air.

Sure.

Hit me up on LinkedIn.

But they came in and, they're well respected.

They said, do not change your burgers, do not change your wings.

They are top, notch.

But here's how you can simplify some things in operations.

And we took two points at a cost of good sold.

We took 20% out of our service times by simplifying our menu.

And making it easier for our kitchen to get the food out

faster, make sure it's right.

So instead of trying to do, you know, the quinoa grain bowl with pepitas

and dried blueberries and peppadew peppers and you know, Billy Joe's coming

into our venue here in Texas going, I don't even know what all that crap is.

Just gimme a burger.

You know, sometimes we try and outthink the consumer and and you

just need middle of the fairway food.

That's really damn good.

And, people will come back for it.

That's a

great golf analogy.

Middle of the fairway food.

Yeah and, you know, you're right, there's so much going on right now I think

in terms of menu engineering and menu creativity and, you know, innovation

in the food side of the business.

But when you look at, you know, the type of consumer that goes out the

most, and you look at what's the easiest way to remain profitable and battle

all these rising costs, I mean, What you're talking about completely makes

sense.

Well, and that I, to me, a lot of that's a byproduct of, again, covid

forced all the restaurants to simplify.

Well, now the guests are into this two, three, and four years.

They, I can't go to McDonald's and get grilled chicken or a salad anymore.

You know what?

I, used to go there to get that, but I can't anymore.

And, it's made their operation a lot.

Simpler.

I think they're a lot busier than they used to be.

You know, obviously they have a drive through, so it's a

little bit different deal.

But I think that, you know, COVID kind of trained the consumer to one,

you know, do a lot of third party and delivery and I, think their,

bar for food standards has lowered.

Which is not great, but, you know, everybody's different.

I order Chipotle I, order on the app.

I go across the highway and I go pick it up.

My marketing guy.

Orders Chipotle through DoorDash, and I look at him and go, why'd you spend

eight more dollars to get your food?

And he tells me, well, you know, my time's worth $8.

And I said, yeah, but my food's made 30 minutes later than yours.

It tastes a hell of a lot better.

So, we have different needs, you know, he's just wants it easy.

I, want good food.

And, so I think as you look at your restaurant, again, it

has nothing to do with sports.

Just sell what the consumer.

Once.

Don't get into all these, you know, pair your menu down and do

it really well and, you'll do well.

That's good advice.

Can we switch gears a little bit and talk about Sure.

The people side of the business?

Yeah.

Because everybody's talking about I, was speaking to somebody from

actually from seven shifts yesterday.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with that.

Yeah.

And they just did a, huge survey with thousands of operators across

North America and the number one, Challenge that every operator told

'em they were facing was turnover.

The number two was how to manage labor costs, and number three

was just dealing with inflation.

So how are, how's the people side of the business for, you guys?

I probably have a very contrarian view to the, staffing

crisis that everybody says.

Now.

Part of it is, you know, I've written many books on how to

run a restaurants, how to hire.

I was very fortunate in my career to work for so many people that taught

me how to create the right culture, to attract the right kind of people.

And so when we got, again I, grew a, sandwich brand as a

franchisee to 17 units, and we were averaging five or $600,000 a year.

You can add a zero and then someone to what we're doing here today.

So I've managed a, in fact, I still have one witch restaurant.

I got 10 employees there.

I do 500 grand a year, and over here I got 150 employees in a venue doing, you

know, at least a comma more than that.

It, to me it, all hinges on the general manager.

You have a great general manager that understands how

to build a team of managers.

Now my case in a sandwich shop, I just need some supervisors and then

running a big shop's golf, I need a lot of managers to, to run these

venues and build the teams and so we, our marketing team and the group

that was here before I got here did a phenomenal job creating our brand story.

So we already had the tagline here.

Everyone's a big shot.

I got here and I was like, great.

That's gonna be our guest service mantra.

I can build my whole employee experience around that.

And so absolutely it fit into the high level thing here.

Then we find people that we know can execute on that level, and we

struggle just like everybody else.

You, you hire some managers that, that might, not be ready to, deal with this,

or they, you know, we're a brand new brand and we didn't have everything figured out.

We're building the runway while we're flying the plane.

And somebody that's come out of a very systematic brand or a chain,

it was tough for them to, come into this brand where it's like, I

don't have the checklist done yet.

You gotta help me build it.

You gotta build it.

And so we, did struggle with things like that.

And we have turn, you know, we had turnover, we have turnover, but

we, have really done everything to funnel up into the Hear

Everyone's a big shot mantra, and.

You, hire the right GMs to execute on that and they'll be the ones

that will hire the right people.

And, it's a little tougher when you have to hire 150 versus 10 for sure.

But I'm very proud of what we built here with our team because the, brand

had, and the marketing team had done it before we got started, and then we just

took that and as we brought in a new training team and an operations team they,

got exactly what we were looking for.

Then we put things into place such as we have an employee loyalty program.

We use a, thing called bonus lease.

So our employees, we run contests, you know, they go right in, they get

points, they can go buy gift cards.

We use a, text-based, kind of a micro learning platform to send out information

to the employees on the front line.

'cause communication's tough, you know, when you get lots of layers,

especially as you get bigger.

We use this thing called Go Happy, and it's a text-based platform.

So my, my head of culinary, he can communicate, we're getting

ready to roll out some new menu items in early September.

He can communicate right with them short videos, exactly what to do, the servers,

here's how you sell it, the front desk, here's what you describe it to the guests

as you're taking 'em to the tee box.

And so we just give the people what they need, when they need, where they

need and, help them continue to grow.

And and I think if you do a lot of those kind of things, Recruitment challenges

are a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you think it's a problem, you're right.

If you don't think it's a problem, you're right.

That's good.

And Bonusly I've had a, couple of really good conversations with

people about Bonusly lately that it seems to be a very innovative, very

cool, you know, exciting platform.

I think anytime that people can reward each other and, you know, benefit from

good performance, I mean, let's be honest, it helps with the buy-in, so That's great.

Yep.

Well done.

One other quick question for you about the Yeah.

The people side of things.

And again, you said if you think it's an issue, you're right.

If you don't think it's an issue, you're right.

Do you see the, this labor challenge in the hospitality industry, do

you see this changing big picture anytime in the next couple years?

People ask me this all the time.

Is it one more year?

Is it two more years?

My take on it is that it's been an issue forever.

We just didn't look at it that

way.

I'm 56.

Wait, I'm 57.

I'm getting old.

I can't remember how old I'm, but 41 years ago when I applied at Chuck E.

Cheese, when I was 16 years old, my dad said to me, oh, you guys

are so, y'all have it so easy.

This generation's lazy.

You're self-entitled.

You have it so good.

Fast forward when, you know, I'm in the real world and I'm saying

the same thing, so e everything's changed and nothing's changed.

I think what's happened to us is the, you know, the wages are

getting pushed up significantly quicker than we can raise prices.

And again, going back to menu simplification we, have to

make it easier for our staff.

To run the business the, days of the yesteryear where we're working open

to close and we could just, you know, almost abuse the employees and just

say, look, yeah, go get another job.

Well, guess what?

There's millions of 'em they can go get now.

So the employee does have the leverage.

Today.

Today and, we just need to make sure we simplify and simplify.

Use technology where you can, I mean, think about quick service

and, you know, I don't order Chipotle, I don't wait in line.

I I, order on a, on my app or a lot of places you order on kiosk.

And so you do have to leverage technology to make your lives a lot easier.

And address the labor problem in other ways other than addressing

the labor problem because it, is, the restaurant industry's tough.

You know, we don't have a great reputation out there, but there are

plenty of brands of the Chick-fil-A's of the world, the pals that, and in

and outs that are just nailing it.

And you know, they're not paying $25 an hour for somebody to cook hamburgers

or ring up stuff on a register.

They, have a great system.

They provide people a path to.

Get that real job, six figure income down the road.

And it's not for everybody.

It's very structured, it's very rigid.

And, you just gotta decide what your pain point's gonna be.

Maybe I have to invest in a little tech to save the, you know, save the labor.

But, you know, when you look at overall, just look at the franchisee,

look at the owner, look at the gm.

That's, the key to solving the problem.

Well said.

And the, technology and innovation thing, you've mentioned Chipotle a couple times.

If anybody hasn't seen their new avocado machines that Yeah.

Cut, peel and chop avocados in order to make guacamole faster

than any person ever could.

I mean, there's some pretty solid innovation right there, right?

Yep.

I can't thank you enough for joining.

One thing I wanna make sure that we get for everybody, you

mentioned a couple of books.

How do we find those?

They're, now that I have a real job here I, don't have my own

website anymore, but if you go to Amazon and just look up smart restaurant

guides or my franchise group was called Smart Restaurant Group, so it's kind

of the opposite of the Dummies books.

That we, we've built a, you know, a smart restaurant guide

to operations, another one for recruitment, another one for catering.

And they're simple, practical tips to help people run their restaurants or their

hospitality business a little bit better.

Amazing.

And there were a couple other sort of nuggets that you had

around, you know, your first year shouldn't be your busiest and the GM

management team thing, I think is, Brilliant and completely accurate.

The best way for people to get ahold of you if they have

questions is that LinkedIn.

Yeah, I think just, you know, just hit me up on LinkedIn, my, or just

TJ dot ss, c h i e r@bigshotsgolf.com.

I've been in a training organization called Chart.

It's a council of hotel and restaurant trainers for 30 years

since I've worked at Chuck E.

Cheese and we are, I call us the AA of trainers.

We, get together, we all say I have a problem.

Then somebody in that group has helped us solve that problem.

So I love sharing and learning.

There's, nothing confidential or probably even unique of what I just told you guys.

It's somebody else.

You've heard it before.

We just forgot.

And that's why I love doing my leadership lessons from the driving range.

I just do kind of one minute updates.

Hey, I was in a webinar the other day.

About performance management here in my job.

And one of the ladies was saying, here's how you have a difficult conversation.

I've done this for 40 years.

I've never heard it.

I was like, oh my gosh, this is so simple.

What a great way to have a conversation with a 30 year employee that won't change.

Boom, put it out there.

Hopefully that'll benefit somebody out there, down the road.

And we will slowly get our industry and to having a great reputation

as a, great place to work.

I couldn't agree more.

And in terms of your comment about some business crushes, When Walk on

Sports Bistro, you mentioned them.

Yep.

A quick shout out, Chris Williams, who's their director

of brand culture and training.

Him and I have had, we've had the chance to connect a few times.

He's been on the show and he actually wrote an amazing article about

culture in the restaurant industry for us that went out yesterday.

So I'll make sure that you actually get a chance to see it.

But I couldn't agree more.

They're doing some really good stuff and we need to, let's be honest,

let's add big shots to that list.

'cause I follow you guys really closely, so continue to do what you're doing

and thanks so much for joining us.

We really appreciate you taking the time and I know you're

a busy guy, so thanks again.

No, it was great.

Appreciate it.

Thanks.

We'll chat with you soon.

Thanks tj.

See ya.

Thanks for joining us on this episode of Turning the Table

with me, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.

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