SEGMENT GAP

Hello.

Welcome back to another great episode.

My name is Sarah Karakaian.

I am Annette Grant, and together we are--

Thanks for Visiting.

All right, let's hop into this episode like we do every week, and then

as sharing one of you, our loyal listeners who's using our hashtag #STRShareSunday.

This is where we get to thank you for tuning in each and every week,

twice a week, and we'll showcase your property here on the podcast.

Who are we sharing this week Annette?

This week is @cedarmountainview.

All one word.

Again, @cedarmountainview, hosted by Amanda and Nathan in Tennessee.

Some great stuff I want to point out here.

Number one, they have, and I think anyone could, if they

have a family-friendly home.

They have some great games and games that all shapes and sizes could play.

So they have foosball.

The one thing that I love is they have some arcade games, and they also

have a super large Connect 4 game.

And I think that can be fun for children and adults alike.

Just really interactive, and I think a great, great idea.

They also have an air hockey board, so some great stuff in their game room,

and I'm sure their guests enjoy that.

Also, one thing I haven't really seen a lot of, they have these amazing

decals on their stairs, so it's a little design element that just

shows the guests that you're paying attention, that you're into design.

And also it's probably a safety feature too, giving you a little bit of a contrast

to the stair and getting up there.

I thought that was wonderful.

And then I'm pretty sure Amanda writes handwritten notes to all of her guests,

and we absolutely just adore that.

So thank you for using our hashtag.

And listeners, if you don't provide any games, this is your sign to buy some

games, even if it's a deck of cards.

Get something in case the guest staying at your home wants something to do

that's not in their normal activity.

So something simple, as simple as a deck of cards to get them started.

So thanks for using the hashtag.

Sarah, this episode is juicy.

Yes, listeners, get ready.

We are going to give you insight into how you can improve

your Airbnb booking funnel.

All right.

And you're going to want to stay tuned because our guest is going to

go over the four steps in where you are losing your potential guest.

And make sure, after the episode, to check our show notes.

He gave us an unbelievable offer for the tool that he designed to help

you improve these four steps where you're losing your potential guests.

All right.

Who wants more bookings?

I do.

Well, the question should probably be, who doesn't?

Well, wait, I don't know.

Either way, I think all of us are like, our ears are popping up, but how?

And there's a lot of noise out there in regards to how, but today

we have a guest in the show who we know is going to be able to help our

listeners really figure out how to get more bookings backed by data.

So Jeff is a self-proclaimed data geek and has worked for companies large and small,

helping them convert insights into data.

He co-founded Loma Homes, which is a vacation rental company that focuses

on unique experiences and themes.

We've had them on the podcast before.

We'll share those episodes in the show notes, which is

why this episode is so cool.

This isn't coming from a "data geek" who has no idea about our business

and what our booking funnel looks like and what the industry looks like today

post COVID, but they really have a deep understanding of what our challenges are.

And so Jeff saw a need for better data to optimize his properties.

And so he created a solution, which we're going to get into in this

episode as an internal tool to help him grow his short-term rental business.

And now he wants to help the rest of us.

And this is not dynamic pricing.

Don't think that this tool is dynamic pricing.

And what we're going to talk about today is not pricing.

So that's where I want everybody to get out their pen and paper.

And we're going to start at the very top of the funnel.

Jeff.

Welcome to the show.

Welcome back.

Thank you.

Excited to be here.

So let's dive in, Jeff.

How were you optimizing?

What pain points were you seeing with Loma Homes, and what was your thought

process on trying to figure out a solution to increase your bookings?

Yeah.

When we were running Loma Homes, we really started it out with the idea

of design and really differentiating ourselves with experiences.

And we went all in with that, and it worked really, really well.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with focusing on a great

experience for your guests.

And that was working.

We really wanted to know how much it was working and what impact that

was having in the OTA specifically.

In addition to that, we often saw fluctuations went down season, and

we wanted to know, is it just us not getting bookings, or is this everybody?

And so we were able to build a tool that helped us benchmark against

the competition and then understand where guests were falling off in

the booking process so that we could troubleshoot that and ultimately

get more bookings from that.

Okay.

Jeff, I think we need to explain a little bit.

You say an experience, but let's color this in for our listeners, and

we'll make sure to link to some of the listings in the show notes.

Listeners, these experiences are one of a kind.

And so for Loma Holmes to experience this and see that drop off, and for it

to be a pain point for them, I want you to know that you're not alone in this.

So Jeff, can you just give some ideas on the design and experience and the

investment that Loma Homes made, and that return on investment that you saw

but where you were still feeling some of that pain in those off-seasons, if

you could color that in for all of us?

Yeah.

I would assume most of your listeners probably started recently.

The amount of people that have started recently has been quite high.

And so you've probably seen a lot of turbulent times from

COVID, to non COVID, to revenge travel, and all of these things.

And so you've seen some big ups, and you've seen some big downs, is my guess.

But when we came out of the gate, we're very data-centric, obviously,

and we ran the numbers, found Orlando to be a profitable place to be.

This was back in 2018.

And we found that customers or guests were going to Orlando for

these theme park experiences.

And a lot of the homes that were doing the best had a minions wall mural, or

they had some themed element to them.

So we decided, you know what?

We can do this.

We can just take it to the next level.

So we hired some themed contractors to come in and make custom-carved beds.

And we got fog machines to just create this-- we even had lighting

effects and separate switches for different sound effects and things.

And so it was really just this whole immersive experience that guests can have.

And it was great.

I mean, we got a lot of publicity from that, a lot of social media attention,

which was the goal, and it worked.

And then the pandemic, we thought would kill us, and it ended up creating a surge.

And then 2022 happened, and it was like, wait a minute, what just happened?

So even for us, with all the design and all these things, it

was like, something's different.

We're not seeing the same amount of bookings that we did last year.

And that's when IntelliHost was born to figure out why and how to fix it.

And if you can share with us, I mean this, uh, next level

experiences, I'm assuming they were in the six-figure investment into these homes.

Oh, yeah.

I just want to let the listeners know how dedicated--

Right.

This isn't just some wallpaper and a different light bulb.

It was--

And these, uh, experienced contractors were people that build

out amusement parks and rides.

You hired the best of the best.

You made the top line investment, and I think you were seeing

top line returns also.

And I just want listeners to know some of that.

So can you also just let us know the investment that you made and

the returns that you were seeing, and then how it has dipped for you

to create the tool that you did?

Yeah.

So our Wizard's home is the poster child for all of that.

We bought it for, I want to say-- and I tell you the purchase price

of the home to give you an idea of how much renovation went into it.

We probably spent 480, 460 on the home, and then put about

$250,000 in renovations into it.

That's what I wanted.

The listeners to get a real idea on the investment that you made in this design.

And this wasn't a beater home.

This was a ready-to-go to rent home.

So all of the 250,000, 90% of it was all theming elements.

It was custom murals.

It was custom carved beds.

It was all of those things.

And you're talking about 50% of your home price in theming elements.

And so it's a risky way to go, but we went all in on the income

strategy, and it paid off.

Our average revenue for the last two years has been pretty close to, if

not exceeding 300,000, each year.

I mean, that's the return that we made on it, so it was definitely worth it.

Thank you for sharing that.

So as a self-proclaimed data geek, we're going to get

into the product that you built.

And yes, listeners, you can leverage it too.

But before we get into that, what were the questions you had for your listings?

What were the first things you were asking that you thought maybe were playing

into low occupancy in your slow months?

What does a data geek think of first?

So we knew we had a great design.

We knew we were different than everyone else, but if no one can see us, then

there's no chance of getting booked.

So the first question was, are we getting ranked on Airbnb.

And if we're getting seen, then are we converting those eyeballs?

So it's about understanding how much are we appearing in search

and if we're getting on the top of that search, and then knowing if

we're then converting those eyeballs into bookings was my question.

Because I knew-- like I said, the design was good, but there's

so many different things.

There's so many different settings in Airbnb that I was like, what if

I just have one little thing wrong?

What if I just have something that's broken and we're

just not getting in search?

And so that was really a question for me.

And then on top of that, Airbnb's always really seen these different updates, and

they're changing and tweaking things.

And it was like, oh man, did that affect me for the good, for the bad?

Those were definitely some of the questions that I had, and we were

able to answer with the numbers.

Great.

So before you built a tool, was it just massive spreadsheet with like,

okay, let's change this picture?

Maybe Airbnb doesn't like this picture, but like this one, or this

title seems to speak to people.

But because we've all heard at this-- okay.

Back in 2018, Annette and I would blow people's minds with change your title

for the season, or change your picture.

But now I feel like that's common knowledge.

But you are saying, great, you do those things, but how do you know

what's actually pulling a lever of catapulting you to page 1 of Airbnb?

Right.

And that was something that always bothered me.

I'm sure a lot of people are googling what works and what doesn't on Airbnb,

and there's a lot of conflicting things.

Some people say like, oh yeah, totally boost your rank if you change your

listing a little bit every day, or putting emojis in your title helps,

all these different theories and myths.

And a lot of them contradicted.

And I thought, there's got to be some data on this.

There's got to be some real truth behind all of this.

And the more I searched, the more there just wasn't.

And so we started to run different A/B tests on our own data.

So I started to dive into Airbnb's metrics deeper and deeper and deeper.

And what I found was actually quite surprising.

The further I dug into Airbnb's metrics, the more I realized what they're reporting

or what I thought they were reporting wasn't what they were actually reporting.

And I had to actually create some technology that would collect the data

that's in Airbnb in raw and number format and then manipulate it in Excel

using other tools to turn it into what I needed, which was, what impact

are my changes having on my listing?

And from the data that's there, you can't actually tell those things

because of the way they formatted it.

And that's when we realized we had something special that we had built.

Can I ask?

I'm sure this is just going to be an estimate.

How much time did you spend investigating this, researching, and coming up with

these facts with the data that you need?

Can you give us an estimate of how much time you've put into that?

I mean, I was running a vacation rental business at the same time, so I

can't say it was full-time, but it took us a good year to figure out how to

collect this data, how to understand all of the nuances that Airbnb introduces to

this data, and how to use that and work around that to be helpful, because you

just assume that a company like Airbnb is super consistent, and reliable, and

just trustworthy, and all of the data, but the more we collected it, the more

we realized there was just some weird things happening in the numbers that

we had to account for and calculate for and really make sure that the

numbers were clean so that we could, um, make decisions out of that data.

So to answer your question, it took a good year, let's say

part-time, 20 hours a week.

Took a long time.

I know listeners are probably like, I'm toiling on my listing.

I just want to give an idea of the labor of love, the labor of time that

you've put into to researching it.

Yeah.

Lots.

At what point, Jeff, then did you decide, okay, we've done enough research,

and we want this to not only help us, but we think this is a solution that

doesn't exist yet, and we'll get into the tough question of, oh, but doesn't it?

So IntelliHost, which is the name of your product, when was it born, and at what

point did you think now is a time to share this with other people in exchange for

subscriptions to tap into this product?

I would say it was born internally about a year and a half ago.

And at that point, it was never intended to be a product that

we would release to everybody.

Like you mentioned, it was just an internal thing because we

needed to make better decisions.

And so we built it, and it took a few months, well, five, six

months to even get it to a state where we could use it ourselves.

And then it was tweaking for another six months.

But the aha moment, that moment where I was like, oh my gosh, this is a

game changer was when we released a new property in Panama City Beach,

and, um, it was new out of the gate.

And I don't know if-- and I'm sure no one else has had this problem, but one of

your first three reviews comes out as a one star, and it's like, you get this--

Who is that guest?

Can we find them?

You get a tragic guest, and you're just like-- because they were trying to

look for refunds, and you didn't give them one, and they're like, well, retaliatory.

So what happened is this is our second or third review.

They gave us a one star.

But luckily, the review had violated all of Airbnb's terms and conditions,

and so we ended up getting it removed.

But what was awesome about that experience was we were tracking the numbers and

the data and watching like our first page impression rate, meaning our

rank, and that review came out, and our rank went from 50, 60% down to 12.

It was like, bam.

And we were just freaking out.

And then the review got removed, and it went right back up to where it was.

And we were like, hold on a minute.

That was interesting.

Not only did we know, we verified that Airbnb does reward and penalize

based on overall review score, but how much did that affect us?

And what would've been the consequence of that?

So that was just a huge aha moment.

And we realized this is the tip of the iceberg.

We could test all kinds of things and figure out what's working and

how to help people earn more revenue.

All right.

How can we help listeners-- whether or not they choose to utilize your tool,

Jeff, what should they be looking at?

And can you talk us through the actual Airbnb funnel?

Can you talk about the beginning of a guest seeing your

booking to actually booking?

Yeah.

One of the things that people just don't think-- everyone's used to talking

about performing in the OTAs as rank.

They're like, just rank higher.

Rank is definitely part of the equation, and I'm not trying to change your mindset

there, but there's a bigger picture.

And what's happening on the OTAs and on Airbnb is guests are

taking four steps before they can find and book your property.

And at each step, there's an opportunity to lose guests.

So every time they take a step, you may be in their funnel or their

list of properties that they're considering, or you may fall out.

And understanding your funnel is about understanding where you're

losing the most guests and trying to keep as many as possible.

So that's what a funnel optimization is all about, is what are those four steps,

and how can I make sure that every time a guest goes to the next step, that

I'm not falling out of their criteria?

So the first step-- and do you want-- I'm happy to go into them if you'd like.

Yes, please.

We want these four steps.

We're all ears.

And listeners, we're using the term funnel, which is a very

broad marketing funnel, listeners, but it's just what it sounds like.

You use a funnel in your kitchen, or when you're doing an oil change.

You start with so many people at the top, and it's getting that

last person down to the bottom.

So it's like all the eyes on your property all the way down to booking.

So that's what we're talking about, the marketing funnel here.

So yeah, let's get these four steps.

Let's do it.

Yeah.

And the perfect funnel is shaped wide at the top and wide at the bottom.

And that doesn't sound like a very good funnel if you're using it

for cooking, but for marketing, that's the perfect funnel you want.

You want lots of people coming on the top, and then they just

flow right through to the bottom.

And so the first step is impressions.

And an impression is every time that you appear in search.

So Airbnb has 15 pages usually.

In most areas, they have 15 pages of search that people can click through.

So every time somebody goes on airbnb.com and they search--

there's three big filters.

You can search a location.

You can search the guest count, and you can search the date range.

And when they hit go, everyone that just appeared in that next

screen just got an impression.

Not everyone in that location got an impression because they're

only showing the top 15 pages.

So if you didn't get in the top 15 pages, you're not getting an impression.

But that's step 1, is just getting in that first result set.

And the way you do that is by just getting in as many filters as possible.

Those three that I just mentioned are the big three.

Guest count, making sure you have as many guests as possible, making

sure your dates are available, and then being in the right location.

The game for your top of your funnel, we call it top of funnel, is just showing

up in that filter in the first place.

And that's something you can control.

It's something that if you add the right amenities, for example, if somebody

filters by amenities, they're going to get a different results set, and

you want to appear in those filters.

And what most people do is they go straight to Airbnb, and actually,

Airbnb's even said that 90% of their traffic comes from direct traffic.

And what that means is people are going up to their URL and they're

starting to type Airbnb, and it auto fills, and then they hit enter.

That's how 90% of their traffic comes through.

And they're not Googling Treehouse Airbnb in Chattanooga.

That's just not how people are searching.

They're going straight to Airbnb before they even start their search.

And that's important because if you're trying to use keywords, for

example, to optimize your listing, that helps you in Google search.

But that's really not how people even book anyways.

So it's really important to focus on those filters to appear in results.

And so people will filter, they'll see this massive result set, and

then they start to get more specific.

They're like, yeah, well, maybe they shrink their price range,

or maybe they filter by pool, or hot tub, those kinds of things.

And that's what's going to get you more impressions.

So that's step 1, is just showing up in filters in the first place.

Okay.

Step 1.

What's next?

Step 2 is getting on page 1 of whatever filters they're using.

And that is all dependent upon Airbnb's algorithm.

So Airbnb is using a number of factors to determine who is most relevant.

And that's the key for any search algorithm, is determining relevancy.

And what that means is they want to make sure that they're serving up the

properties that you're most likely to book when you search, because they're trying

to provide the best experience possible.

And so determining relevancy, Airbnb has a lot of internal metrics that they can use.

Two of those metrics are click rate and book rate.

So meaning what percentage of the time after seeing your property

did people actually click on it?

That's click rate.

Another metric is book rate, or after clicking on it, what percentage of the

time did they actually check out and book?

That tells Airbnb, this property, people like.

If they're not clicking on it and they're not bucking it, that tells Airbnb, oh,

we probably shouldn't surface this one on top of page because it's not relevant.

And that's how they determine that.

People are always making assumptions on what Airbnb

cares about and what they don't.

Like, oh, if I have a picture with more contrast.

They just make up all kinds of crazy things.

And I don't think Airbnb really cares about a lot of that when they have

metrics like click rate, and book rate.

The other reason we believe they use these two metrics so heavily is because we just

ran a big analysis on new properties.

And when you first launch a property, we're not talking about

deactivating and reactivating.

I'm talking about a brand new listing.

When you first launch a brand new listing, your search rank goes up.

The first four days, it just climbs like crazy.

At day four, it peaks, and then it starts to decline over seven to 14 days,

and it finally appears off at 30 days.

And so we call it the grace period where you get this big boost,

and then it starts to level off.

Now, why would Airbnb do that?

They're doing that because they want to see, they want to test your

property for those two metrics.

They want to see how well you're getting clicked, and they want to

see how well you're getting booked.

And if during that grace period you get both of those things really well, well,

then you just peg yourself in their algorithm at a good level, and they're

probably going to keep you that way.

And then it probably won't be permanent.

They're going to continue to adjust that over time.

But it's important to think about how well you're getting clicked and booked.

And those two things, those two metrics I just mentioned are

actually step 3 and 4 of the funnel.

Clicks and bookings.

I want to stop for a second about this brand new listing.

So if listeners are listening, and they just launched, and they're getting

no bookings, should they be alarmed?

Is that timeframe mission-critical, if you will?

I would argue that it is.

I would argue that those first 14 days are completely mission-critical.

If you don't get any bookings in that 14 days, it's a problem.

Okay.

It's a big problem too, because you can't-- so this is where I'm going

to brush off my shoulders, because, listeners, if you've been listening

long enough, I think I've painted myself as the, um, perfectionist that I am.

And sometimes, B minus work, just get it up.

Just get it listed.

Just do the thing.

But just know how heavily weighted it is when you introduce your listing to the

Airbnb world, because if you don't hit out of the park when you first list it,

I mean, that's what you're saying, Jeff, is that it might be hard for you to--

Make a comeback.

To make a comeback.

Yeah.

And some people when they hear me say that, they're like, oh, well, I'll just

re-list my property every two weeks.

I don't recommend that either.

That's cringy.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

That I don't recommend trying to game the system, or trying to rig the system.

I'm pretty sure that would be against Airbnb's policy, and I would

imagine they could shut down your account if you were doing that.

I'm sure a lot of listeners weren't like, really, you get a boost if you're-- and

so they're trying to think through it.

I know I would've.

So be careful, and make sure you're following the policies there.

Yeah.

AD MARKER

Okay.

I have more questions, but you might answer them when we get to three and four.

Step 3, step 4.

Let's do it.

The one thing I'll mention before we go to step 3 is step

2-- I hate this, but it's true.

It's highly influenced by price.

I don't know if it's just since Airbnb's algorithm, but the fastest

way to rank is just with price.

It stinks because nobody wants to just lower their price

toget more bookings like that.

Yeah.

What do you mean by price?

The lowest price when it's--

They've setit.

The guess count.

They've set best quality, lowest price is going to win,

which sucks because it feels like this race to the bottom, but--

It does.

It does, but the game-- we have to remember that the goal is revenue.

So lowering your price might increase your revenue if the amount of eyeballs

you're getting exceeds the amount of discount that you're providing.

I'll give you a case in point.

We had a property in Destin, and Destin is an extremely competitive market.

And we were priced just barely too high.

And it wasn't that we were priced too high, it was that the

competition entered the market, and it saturated, and the prices started

to drop, and we didn't go with it.

And because we weren't competitive, our first page impression, rank,

was just dropping, dropping, dropping, dropping, dropping.

So when we finally looked at it, we're like, wait, what's going on here?

We dropped our price by 15%, 15%, and we saw an increase in first page

impressions by about five times.

Just that tiny tweak in a really competitive market was able to

just shoot us up in rank, and then we were fine on our bookings.

And so our revenue was three or four times because of that slight change in rate.

Can you let us know, the 15% per night, what was that?

If you could give us some tangible numbers there for our listeners.

I think average, we were at 350, 400 a night, and then

we dropped it 15% from that.

And I don't want any of your listeners thinking, oh, 15% will 5x my bookings.

It totally depends on your area and what the competition is doing.

But yeah.

We're going to help them with that.

All right.

Yeah.

So those are the big three things I would think about when it comes to ranking

is click rate, book great, and price.

And then step 3 is all about clicks.

So once you actually get seen, whether you're on page 1, page

2, page 3, whatever, there's only seven or eight things that people

can see on each property that will determine whether they click or not.

So what's nice is if you're having a click rate problem, if you're not getting clicks

after getting eyeballs, there's only a few levers you could potentially pull.

And the main one is cover image.

I'd say 7 times out of 10 we see a click rate problem, it's usually

because the cover image is just not compelling, because that's the biggest

part of the real estate that you have on that first page is your cover image.

The other things that people can see are whether you're a super host or not.

How many reviews you have, the quality of those reviews, what type

of home you are, an apartment home, townhouse, that kind of thing.

Your title, which they've made super tiny so it probably doesn't even

matter anymore, and then your price.

So those are the main things.

But usually, if you're appearing on first page, it's because your

price is probably in line anyway.

So those are the main things that you can think about when

troubleshooting your click rate.

So a compelling cover image.

And you've seen that help tremendously.

Yeah, absolutely.

And just to put a plug out there, we have been seeing a lot of people

use split screen cover images, and in our experience, they don't work.

I don't know who's putting them out there, but I keep seeing the

same split screen cover image.

Sometimes it's this diamond shape.

It doesn't--

Can you explain what that is?

There's too much going on.

Split screens,they--

So in oneimage, it's likefive different images, right?

Exactly, yeah.

They'll put some text in the middle or something like that, and then they'll

put four different images in it.

And the problem with that is people are scrolling through these properties

really quickly, and all these little pictures are less compelling than

one awesome picture because all those little pics don't make people stop it.

They just see busy, and they keep going.

And so if you're doing a split screen image, it's not all the time,

because in Destin, for example, we still do one split screen.

It's just unique in that area because it has this huge resort pool, and so we

have this big resort pool and one or two images of the interior on the cover image.

So you have to take into account what's best for your area.

But most of the time, split screen images are not super effective.

Can you say on the flip side that there is a specific room

that, in the cover image, does best?

Yes.

Is it the kitchen?

Is it the living room?

Ooh, you said yes quick.

What is it?

Give us the tea.

Yeah.

So for us, it was the gathering space.

But we also have large properties.

So we have properties from five-bedroom to nine-bedroom.

That's our market.

And we've gotten zero invitation, Sarah.

I don't know where that puts us.

Five beds, nine beds, zero invites from Loma Homes.

But no one's counting.

No one's counting.

We're going to wait for that tick on--

I hear resort-style pools, Florida, Wizard'sWay,

five bedrooms, nine bedrooms.

Annette put you on blast.

Did I saybig property?

Uh, zero invites to Thanks for Visiting.

All right, so the gathering space for your properties has been on--

Now, is that the kitchen island, or is that the dining room table, or is that

the living room with the TV and the sofas?

Living room, TV, sofa.

Generally, those areas are also really the best lit areas we've seen.

And so I don't know if it's the lighting or what, but we found

that for larger properties, people want to see, what experience--

from an entertainment perspective.

Because larger properties, it's almost never one family.

It's two, three families.

And they want to make sure that that space is going to accommodate them because

that's what they're going to spend most of their time is socializing in that space.

So they really want to make sure that that space is what they need.

So if you're using a big property, definitely have that great area.

Now, for couples, I mean, if you're doing small properties, especially

if they're looking for long-term stays, it might be your amenities.

Just get a good pool in there, or the desk, the office space.

I don't know what cover image works for smaller properties yet, but generally

a safe bet is just that gathering area if it's a really good gathering space.

Thanks for that hot tip.

We like that.

We had some really cool bedrooms in some of our beach properties, so we

were highlighting those bedrooms because they were just beautiful, and we had

like a nine, 10% click rate, and then we tested some gathering space ones,

and we jumped to 12, 13% click rate.

So it's not going to just change the game for you, but it's a significant increase.

All right.

So step 4.

What's next?

Drum roll on this one, right?

So once they've clicked on your listing, now they need to check

out, and the thing that's going to determine whether they check out or

not is that detailed page screen.

It's got your five images across the top.

It's got some summary info.

It's got your description.

All of that is what's going to determine whether they book or not.

And so one of the themes that we've been seeing a lot recently, the

fastest way to kill your conversion rate or your click to book rate--

And kill is a positive.

You're using this in a positive way right now, right?

I'm actually using this as in a negative.

Oh, okay.

I thought you were going to see-- but I had to clarify because I thought you were

saying, kill it, you're going to crush it, but you're saying this is terrible.

Well, so think of it this way.

Your top of funnel, you're trying to just-- the goal is to

increase it as much as possible.

Your bottom of funnel is just trying to keep it.

You're just trying to not lose people, right?

Mm-hmm.

That's difference.

Top of funnel is just bring in as many people as possible, and then the goal

of step 3 and 4 is just don't lose them.

So step 4 is like, hey, we've got them interested.

They clicked on this property.

It's most of the way there.

Now we just got to get them to take that final step.

And the fastest way to make them just bounce and leave

you is additional guests fees.

Um, a lot of people--

All right, everybody.

Remove your additional guests feestoday.

Just get rid of them.

We've helped two or three people just recently, and quadrupled their

bookings by just removing that.

It was that fast.

They had amazing top of funnel.

They were just getting tons of eyeballs, tons of eyeballs, got tons of

clicks, and then boom, they were gone.

Their funnel was super wide, super wide, and then, smash, right at the bottom.

It was just pinched.

Nobody was booking.

And I was like, something's wrong.

And I started clicking through their listing, and they had a

$100 per guest per night over 12.

They could accommodate 16.

But if you're in a big property, most people are maximizing

the size of the property.

If you sleep 16, they're looking to stay 16.

So when you have your price up there, they're expecting that price, and

then it goes up 50% when they actually select all the guests they want?

They're gone.

There's no way they're booking your property.

That was my question is what are those fees, and just so our

listeners can understand, is it a $25 management fee, or are we talking a

per guest per night fee that really--

I'm talking about a per guest per night fee.

Because that fee isn't showing, or at least it doesn't usually show on the click

part, so people are clicking through and not seeing those additional guests fees.

So this person, for example, up to 12 guests was charging,

I don't know, 650, 700 a night.

And then if you added a guest, it went to 800, and then another

guest, 900, another guest, a 1,000.

That's exorbitant.

I think.

That's a large increase.

It's huge.

Yeah.

Because what's that percentage of the nightly rate if you're--

Well, if you went all the way up to 16 guests, it was

50% increase on nightly rate.

So once we fixed that, in 11 days, he had nine nights booked.

He just booked like crazy after that.

And so we've seen that on a few other customers as well.

We're like, hmm, they're smashed at the bottom.

Oh, additional guests fees.

And just widens the bottom of that funnel right up when they book.

Like I said, there's things-- you got to be looking-- the name of the game for

step 4 is what's scaring people away?

One thing that can scare people away is really draconian

verbiage in your description.

Like, absolutely no parties.

I will crush you.

I've seen some really scary descriptions is like, these rules

will be followed, and if you don't follow them-- it's just like, WHOA.

That will scare people.

They're like, this host is crazy.

What about cancellation policies?

How have you seen that affecting bottom of the funnel?

I haven't seen a huge impact from cancellation policies.

I would avoid the non-refundable cancellation policy.

That does seem to be a little scary for some.

But even strict doesn't seem-- at least right now, we haven't done a full

analysis, so let me just caveat with that.

That is one of the topics we will be doing a full analysis on at some point is

like, what's the conversion rate across those different cancellation policies?

Because we have enough properties now on our system that we can run that and

determine that pretty conclusively.

Uh, we just haven't run those numbers yet.

But anecdotally, I would say that I haven't seen massive drop-offs

in cancellation, uh, in conversion rate from the cancellation policy.

Thanks.

Okay, so this is exciting.

We're good, right, Jeff?

We just change our picture, X out the fees, and my bookings are

going to quadruple tomorrow, right?

We lose the terminology that's going to make them never want

to ever book in the first place.

So we've got all that.

Yeah.

Okay.

We did all that.

So we should be good, right?

Yeah.

Unfortunately, there's quite a few things that people could still get scared about.

I think your laugh, the tonality of your laugh basically told

everybody like, yeah, not so fast.

Well, let's get into IntelliHost.

And now that we have all those levers, we understand them, they make sense to

me, so then what does IntelliHost do?

Yeah.

Listeners, don't leave.

I know you're all going to your computer right now, going to IntelliHost.

We have an offer for you.

Stay around.

We'll have it in the show notes, but please stick around right now

while he explains it, so that way, we don't want you to leave and run and

put your listing on IntelliHost yet.

Stay with us here.

So IntelliHost basically shows you all four steps of the funnel.

It benchmarks each step against your competition, so you can see your

competitive funnel and your funnel just to see where you're losing the

most guests, and where to troubleshoot.

And then we have some A/B testing tools that'll automatically detect

when you've made a change, and then we can quantify that for you.

And then we have some custom recommendations.

So we analyze your property automatically, and then it goes through and shows

you some things that will impact each step so that if you're not a

data nerd like me, you can go through and just read the recommendations.

That's one thing we realized early on is not everyone's a data nerd.

Not everyone has been doing data analysis all their life.

And so we have some really simple, easy-to-use tools where there's a

break-this-down-for-me button at the top where you click it, and it

literally just explains, hey, this is the step you're having a problem with.

This is what you need to go do to fix it.

So we've tried to make it basic and simple.

Follow the red in the dashboard, and you'll be fine.

And finally, there's one more tool within IntelliHost that helps you see your

forward-looking bookings and helps you see how much traffic you're getting on

future days so that you can surgically diagnose the gaps in your calendar and

tweak your pricing so that you can make sure to get all of those days booked.

So that's fun too.

The reason why I like this, listeners, is because you could change

that hero image, that cover image.

You could change your verbiage to be less scary and more welcoming.

But how do you know of those changes, which ones actually

worked in terms of conversion?

You maybe not have to change all the things.

Maybe it's just the photo that's having people peace out.

Maybe it's just the fees are having-- and so in knowing when--

and also different seasons, you might need a different picture.

So which one actually is going to get people to convert?

What is going to speak to them at that time?

Which is why I like IntelliHost too, because I can see when I made

that change, what that change was, and if it moved the needle at all.

Right, Jeff?

That's exactly right.

That's the whole goal, is really just simplify the whole optimization process

and boil it down to just a few levers that you need to pull to fix the problem.

Also Jeff, maybe someone is a data nerd.

They love the idea, but they also have a full-time job, four

children, there are three vacation rental homes they run themselves,

and they clean on the weekends.

So we don't have a lot of time.

We know what's important, but we also have all these other things we're

doing too, especially our listeners.

So in order for them to reap the benefits of their investment within

IntelliHost, what time investment do you see your users having to put in?

So typically, the process is you have to set up your data within

IntelliHost, and that's probably something we should talk about just a little bit.

But the setup is about three minutes.

You have to invite IntelliHost to your Airbnb team, or you have to invite

us as a co-host to your property.

That's how we collect the raw data for you because that's what Airbnb is

giving you to analyze your property.

And so once you've invited us, we start collecting your data,

and then as we collect your data, we compile a history for you.

So we recommend people come back in about seven days, and after seven days,

they can see how things are going.

So it doesn't take a lot of time.

There's just a two-minute setup, and then once you log in, it were

me, I would just follow the red bars, and click the recommendations

for the red bars, and do them.

There's really not a lot of time that's required to figure it out and analyze it.

It's just do what it says.

It shouldn't take you much time.

Now, for the data nerds out there, there's a lot you can dig into, and there's

a whole story you can tell with the data that's in there, and the trending

that's happening, and all of that.

So if you really love the data and you want to dig in, all

the juicy details are there.

But if you're like most property managers that are bogged down in

the operations of your business, it shouldn't take a lot of time.

All right.

So you said three minutes to set it up, but then I heard seven days.

And we've been working with you, so we know we also shouldn't go in

and change all the things at once.

So let's give the listeners a really realistic timeframe, though, Jeff, because

I know right now, we're jumping out of our chairs excited for all of our listeners.

I know they think they're going to get IntelliHost and see a change today,

because when you're in it, and the bookings aren't coming in, it's painful.

So let's give a realistic timeframe, though.

What's the dedication time-wise to really see a result in what we're all looking

for, which is, bottom line, revenue?

Can you paint that picture and how all these changes shouldn't take place at

once, and you need to let the tool get the data for you so you can make the moves?

Yeah.

In a perfect world, I would recommend somebody give it at

least 10 to 14 days of history to really see some consistent numbers.

Airbnb's search can be a little bit volatile, meaning the traffic that

you're going to see, you might see 20 clicks, and then 50 clicks, and then

30 clicks, and then a 100 clicks.

You could see that type of volatility, and if you're trying to make

decisions on that, it's tricky.

But as you give it a little more time, say seven to 14 days, you're going

to start seeing some trends happen, and that's really what we recommend.

The other thing that that allows for is once you have that baseline of seven to 14

days, then you start to make some changes.

And we recommend you make one or two at a time, very few changes at a

time, because then your numbers are going to start to adjust from that.

And if you give it a good week afterwards, before and after the change,

well, now you've got a really good scientific comparison to say, okay,

this is what it looked like before.

This is what it'll look like after, and you can determine.

Now, if you go in there, and you're like, I'm going to make 20 changes,

I'm going to make all the changes that IntelliHost recommends today, you're

not going to know which change made the difference, and maybe you don't care.

That's fine too.

But if you're like me, you really want to know what drives the needle.

And so I recommend you give it seven to 14 days.

You make a change, watch it over seven days, make another change, and over

time, you figure out what works and what doesn't, because some of the changes

you make might actually have a negative effect, but when you mix it all together

with all the other changes, you can't tell that that one had a negative effect.

So to really optimize well, um, I recommend one at a time.

It takes time, but it's worth it.

I know there's listeners out there.

I have Rankbreeze, I have PriceLabs, I have all the tools,

I have all the tech stack.

Do I have money for another tool?

What's the difference?

If they're sitting there and they've attached all the--

That was my question, Jeff.

Yeah.

So this is the stage, the final stage, to really sell everyone on why?

Because everyone's installed all these tools and maybe they're using them.

Maybe they're not.

What is the why?

You've got our ears right now.

How and why are you different?

So we are not a pricing algorithm.

Um, we are a listing site optimization tool.

So we're going to tell you what works and what doesn't on Airbnb, and

we're using source data to do that.

We're the only platform in the whole world that uses that Airbnb source to tell you

what's actually working and what's not.

And we're the only company that has collected enough of those sources to

statistically determine what works, and to actually give you truth, what the data

is saying is working and not just a theory or a myth that you're reading online.

so the other thing is it's a 30-day free trial, so there's really nothing to lose.

Wait, did you just blow our offer for everybody, Jeff?

No.

We have a better offer, right?

It's a 30-day free trial, and then when you subscribe, we have

an offer for your listeners that they can use in the show notes.

All right.

There we go.

You brought it home.

Two things that you said, though, that I want to make

sure our listeners are clear on.

This will not work on Vrbo, correct?

That's true.

This isfor Airbnb only.

All right.

That's number one.

Listeners, do not take our advice if you just list on Vrbo.

The second thing, Jeff, can you circle back really quick?

Because we know this has been a friction for some people.

You have got to have access to make IntelliHost a co-host or

add them to the team, correct?

Or it will not work.

That's right.

We do need access to your account.

You've got two options to do that.

You can either invite us to your team, which is ideal because if you invite

us to your team, you only have to do it once, and we can see all the properties.

You're good to go.

If you are a co-host on someone else's property, you're going to find that

you can't add us as a team because Airbnb has this crazy policy, though.

You can't be a co-host and a team member, and all these weird things.

So you just have to add IntelliHost as a co-host to each property

individually, and then we can still collect the same data for you.

I want to make that clear in case they run into that.

And so listeners, if you're a co-host out there, all I had to do

was tell my owners like, hey, owner, I have this great technology that I'm

going to now be able to tell us with data how we can increase our bookings.

Are you cool if I attach it?

And they're like, yes, please.

Yesterday.

It sounds great.

So it wasn't hard for us to pitch our owners, because, again, if you are a

co-host on a property, then you are not the primary listing person on that.

You have togo where the listing originated.

And so you have to have that partnership with your owners.

But why not?

I mean, you're trying to improve business for everyone involved.

I was going to add to that.

The nice thing about that as well is Airbnb's just released different

permissions for co-hosts, and all we need is calendar permission, the lowest

level of permissions to see the data.

So if they're worried about, well, who is this, and what can they do,

our access is so limited anyways that the risk is pretty low.

I love that.

I didn't know that.

So listeners, why the heck are you still listening to the episode.

Now you can turn us off.

Check the show notes.

We have an amazing offer that Jeff has extended us for our listeners, but I

want our listeners to know too, we've been working with Jeff for months,

learning about his product before we even brought him here on the show, but

as you can tell, he has a teacher's heart and a vacation rental manager's mind.

And when you combine those two with a data nerd, it is absolute magic.

We also brought Jeff into our membership, first.

We wanted to give him a smaller group of hosts to see, okay,

Jeff, you have impressed us, but what matters is our community.

And so he came into HBMM, um, which is our membership, and they loved it.

Once we saw their reaction to Jeff's education and product, and, Jeff, we've

been talking about it in our private group as well, and whether or not now, weeks

later, people are still seeing positive results, and it's still too enthusiastic.

Thumbs up.

So listeners, for what that's worth--

Oh, I'm so glad to hear that.

Yeah.

For what that's worth, it's not just Annette and I thinking this is cool.

We've actually brought it really hard to-- our members are no joke.

They're not messing around.

They don't have time to-- they treat their hosting, um, as a business.

So if you're not in our membership, what the heck?

Check the show notes for thattoo.

Yeah.

We bring you new products first.

Before the show.

That way, our members have been in there increasing their bookings already.

So, Jeff, anything, um, last that you want to let our listeners know at all?

No, I think we've covered it.

I just really appreciate the opportunity to, uh, talk to your listeners.

And if they have any questions-- oh, I think it's worth mentioning,

we just started releasing a lot of educational videos.

So if you just want the free analysis that we're running on all of these numbers,

like cancellation policies and things, you can follow us on YouTube and Instagram.

You're going to start seeing those videos come out pretty frequently.

We've just done a couple.

I think one was on the additional guests fees that I just mentioned

and the impact of new listings.

We just released the analysis on that.

So if you just want to know like, what does the data say on what works, you can

just follow us and get free education.

Love that.

Amazing.

Well, Jeff, thank you so much.

With that, check the show notes for all the juicy links to

improve your bookings today.

My name is Sarah Karakaian.

I'm Annette Grant, and together we are--

Thanks forVisiting.