But I said to my translator that was with me, I said, why are they all around me? You know, like, what is happening here? That was the

question I was about to ask. Like, why are they all around you?

And they said they've never seen a white person. Mm-hmm. Now think about that. You know what I mean? Like for me, they have never seen someone in person that is white like me. Now that will completely change your perspective to go, whoa. You know what I mean? Like Right. This is a very big world and we'll discuss

race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk about this topic 'cause we were afraid

A Black Executive Perspective.

We are coming to you live from our new BEP studio for another thought. Provoking episode of A Black Executive Perspective podcast, A safe space where we discuss all matters related to race, culture, and those uncomfortable topics people tend to avoid. I'm your host, Tony Tidbit. So excited to be with you today. But before we dive in to our guests and what we wanna talk about, I wanna remind everybody to check out our partners at Code M Magazine, whose mission is to help save the black family by first saving the black man. So check them out@codemmagazine.com. That is code m magazine.com. So today. Chad Hickey, founder and CEO of Givsly shares his incredible journey from growing up as a gay man in the South to becoming a trailblazing leader in responsible advertising and marketing. Chad reflects on the impact of his upbringing, the importance of travel in shaping perspectives and his mission to align business success with social good. Together we'll explore the personal and professional milestones that have shaped his unique approach to leadership community. Purpose driven business. So let me tell you a little bit about my good friend Chad. As I stated, he is the founder and CEO of Givsly, which is headquartered in New York City. Givsly is a responsible advertising and marketing solution that enhances brand business results by aligning brand values with consumer values. Through Givsly solution, users activate responsible strategies that also impact the bottom line. Over the last six years, Givsly has collaborated with hundreds of companies to generate business results while directing over $2 million to almost five. Hundred nonprofit organizations. That is awesome. The software was recognized in fast Companies world Changing Ideas award. Prior to launching Givsly, Chad has spent 22 years of his career in the advertising industry leaving re leading revenue driven sales teams with a focus on mobile location data and measurement. My friend, my brother, Chad Hickey, welcome to A Black Executive Perspective podcast.

Thank you for having me. Excited to be here,

buddy. We're excited to, to, to have you on here, especially, bro. I mean, look, bro, you, you doing a lot of great stuff. I mean, so we want to definitely have you share all the things that you're doing and your fabulous journey. So looking forward to it. But before we get started, let's just tell the audience a little bit about where you're currently living and a little bit about your family.

Yeah, so I'm currently living in Arkansas, which is probably not what a lot of people expected me to say. Uh, lived lived in New York for 12 years and I'm one of these pandemic people who escaped the city. Uh, but I'm happy to report that I'll be returning back in January. So, um, family, well, for, for me, it's me and my dog, you know, for the immediate family. But I am about an hour north of, uh, my mom and, uh, stepdad, so that's nice to have them closer. So, uh, that is awesome. Yeah. Buddy

Whitney. Now tell us about the dog. What's your dog's name?

What type of dog? She's, you may hear her, uh, bark here in a minute, but she's a Yorkie Bijan mix. She'll be 15 Wow. In March. She's my child. And so when, uh. Something bad happens, it's not gonna be good for me personally. 'cause she's been with me about a third of my life, which is pretty crazy to say.

Well, well, we're gonna pray for her and hope she gets another 15 years. Okay. Definitely don't want you to get all upset, my man. So, like I said, buddy, we're so excited that you're here. Look, I know you, you run an organization in the city, you travel all over the country. Uh, you put on, you work with brands from all over the globe. You attend all different type of conferences and functions. You speak at a lot of different organizations. So you are a very busy man, my friend. So why did you wanna come on A Black Executive Perspective podcast to share your story?

I, you know, I love when I meet someone and I can just comfortably talk about anything, uh, and ask any questions. And I felt that way with you, um, when I first, uh, met you. So it was more of just, I liked the vibe of the conversation, but I also believe in what you're doing. So, uh, I wanted to support in any way that I could.

Well, buddy, I really appreciate that and the, the feeling is mutual, my brother, so I'm glad you're here. So, Chad, are you ready to talk about it, my man?

Oh, please. Let's, let's get into it.

Alright buddy, let's talk about it. So listen, uh, Arkansas by way of New York talk, tell us a little bit about, you know, growing up, you know, obviously you said, Hey, you know, I'm gay. Tell us a little, and you are in the south now, but talk a little bit about your identity growing up. How did you navigate? What were some of the things that you were dealing with and more importantly, how did you feel about yourself?

Yeah, I think that, look, it was an, a very interesting time to grow up in general and then also know that, you know, I was feeling something that was different from the norm. Um, you know, I was born in 1979 and so, you know, as I was developing just as a human being and knowing that I was different. Um, you know, the AIDS crisis was happening, uh, Matthew Shepherd was, was killed. I don't even know if young people today even know. Yeah. Correct. Correct. What I mean when I, you know, say that, um, Ellen came out of the closet on TV and that was like, this must see, you know, moment. And so, you know, I think in those earlier moments, especially with the AIDS crisis and Matthew Shepherd, um, you know, you can't help but think that you could potentially die for, for feeling a certain way or that be ingrained right in you. And so, you know, I think as a young person, that's a, that's a really hard thing to say, well, I'm feeling this way, but then I'm seeing all these things happen, you know, with. You know, what was a pandemic at that time to, to some extent, especially for the, the queer community, um, and thinking that's gonna happen to me. You know, to be completely honest. Um, and I remember when Ellen came out of the closet and even Will and Grace, you know, was right on tv and how I thought, man, I want to be just like Will for Will and Grace. And um, you know, I had a lot of girlfriends that would say, oh, you know, I'm your, I'm your Grace. You know, and then it was, I remember, I remember a moment, you know, when I lived in New York after, you know, five or six years and I thought, oh, I'm kind of living this life that I was thought about. Like, I'd kind of forgotten about it, you know? 'cause you know, when Will and Grace was on, I was so young, uh, you know, not the age that I am now, that I'd kind of forgotten that that was like a dream of mine. And so to, to actually be living that life. F not necessarily from a queer perspective, but just living my life in New York and having a successful career and those sort of things was kind of this like aha moment that a friend of mine, uh, one of my best friends, Chrissy, she goes, Chad, you always talked about living in New York. Like as long as I can remember and in that weird that you're actually doing it. And I was kinda like, yeah, I've never, I've never really thought of it like that. So, um, so, so to kind of, to get back to your question though, for me it wasn't necessarily so much the South, there's definitely some elements of it, you know, especially with Christianity and, and church being very much a way of life. Right, right. And, and the reason why I say a way of life here, I say that churches are the bars to New York. Like, you know, I'm not saying every person of faith is this way, but I do feel like there is more of a social element than I. More of learning and acting in the teachings of Jesus Christ. Right, right. Um, I've always thought that was interesting, especially in my older age, after living in New York where, you know, in New York, a church is going to a bar and socializing that way, you know, so, uh, for, for lack of a better analogy there.

Well, thanks for that my friend. I really appreciate it. You know, one of the things I had friends of mine, not had, I have friends of mine growing up, um, that I didn't know was gay. Okay. And we went to church together and we, the church that I belonged to, and I don't think this was just unique to where I lived at, I just think that was the doctrine that they were preaching at the time that, you know, people gay, they're going to hell and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and all this type of stuff. Right. And when you are a young kid and you're listening to that right. And that's all you know, because you, why would they say this is wrong? Why blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? Yep. And, uh, my friend who I went to, who, uh, I, you know, was going to church, I didn't know he was gay until later on.

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Hmm. So think about that. When you're sitting there and your, your parents are bringing you, and, and I, I'll get to my point and say, but your parents are bringing you. And then you're hearing, you're like, you say you're different, you feel different. And then you're hearing something that's saying that if you are different, you're gonna be ostracized or you're not this or this and that. And then you gotta go home to your parents. Okay. And then, you know, so years later he, he explained that number one, I was just flabbergasted. I couldn't believe it, right? Number two. And he, he said something, he said, Tony, you know, one thing about it, you always treated me the same. You know? And I didn't, but I didn't know. But it didn't matter. He, he was my friend, okay? But when he told me his situation, I felt so bad, especially as I learned, um, and I grew. Because again, what somebody teaches you, that's what you think. Okay. And until you expand outta that. Okay. Which I had to Right. And then you are like, wait a minute. So my question, my brother, is that one of the toughest things he said he had to do was to tell his parents right. That he was, this is who he is. And it was tough because his parents, you know, believed the doctrine, you know, the Christians and the whole nine yards. And it took them a little bit to accept it and look, they're great now. They're great family. Whole nine yards. So the question I have for you, how was that experience when you were growing up? Yeah. You know, you, you saw Ellen and you know Will and Grace and you were able to live that. Alright. But tell me, tell us a little bit about, you know, you and your family and, and your communication.

Um, look, I, here's, people don't know what they don't know, you know what I mean? And, um, stereotypes are perpetuated that aren't always, for the most part, even accurate. I'm a very boring person, you know what I mean? I'm not, I've never been, um, one of these guys that's, you know, out till four in the morning, you know, I've had my moments, but don't get me wrong, but you know what I mean, just like dancing like crazy, you know what I mean? At a, at a, at a club. Um, and so what I've always said, you know, to anyone, when they talk about acceptance of any family member or friends or, or anything, it's like, you know, I think for a queer person, you have, at whatever age you come out 20. 30, whatever it is. Some people come out, you know, really late. Um, you've had all that time to kind of process it. And so when you say something like that, have you ever like known something about somebody but then you kind of convince yourself otherwise? You know, that's kind of what Absolutely. I mean, that's what

we all do. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like you're like, oh, that's probably not what's going on. And so it's always still somewhat of, of a shock. Um, you know, I come from the belief of giving people grace, you know, that they need to, to come to terms with it and wrap their mind around it and, um, you know, come to their own acceptance and mourn their idea for my life that. Um, that I won't have, you know, to some capacity. And so, you know, I would say that I've been very lucky to have loving parents. You know? Um, is it probably something that they fully agree with coming from like church? Cool. Probably not. Um, and that's okay. That's totally okay. We agree to disagree. I don't think it changes anything about the way we love each other. Um, and I am of the belief that I have to respect other people's opinions. You think I'm going to hell cool. I don't. Um, but that's your belief and that's your own experience. You know what I mean? Right, right. I think I come from, I have my moments look where, you know, no one's gonna disrespect me. Let me be very clear. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not gonna take a level of disrespect. Um, but at the same time, I think we all evolve who I am. Five years ago is fundamentally different from who I am today. And I think that people have lost that sense of development and, and presentism, if that, for lack of a better word, that like you are supposed to be as wise as you are now in this moment forever. You know what I mean? And the reality is the culture changes and people's belief changes and all of that. So that's, that's a long-winded answer of, you know, really saying, um, you know, I think when it comes to my family, it's like there have been accepting moments and there have been moments where some things are better left unsaid and that's okay. You know what I mean? Right, right. With, and so, you know, I have, I have a pretty moderate view on, on things like this. I'm kind of this guy in the middle because I can see both sides when I know we'll get to that. And so I tend to kinda live that, um, as long as someone is doing it in a respectful way.

Right, right, right. You know? Well, number one, thanks for sharing that, my friend, because you know. I, number one, I love your thought process. And I, and you're right, we all evolve. We, well, I'll put it this way, we should evolve. I don't think everybody evolves. Okay. I think every, I think there's a lot of people who just, you know, like things the way they are and they, they, you know, don't wanna see any change and they can't get beyond it. Right. But life is about evolving. I mean, if you think about it, you know, we're in 2024, okay. If we didn't evolve, we'd be still riding horseback. Okay. If we didn't evolve. So that it's always about learning and trying to get better. So I really appreciate that. But speaking about that a little bit, right, is that, you know, you now, you've been in the south, you've been on the east coast, you know, um, we are in a, um, you know, we're in a age right now, or a timeframe I should say, where, you know, people have certain perspectives. Based on when some, where somebody lives. It's a very polarizing world in the United States. Right. You know, people on the East coast, they're liberals, people in the south, they're conservative. People on the west coast are liberal. I mean, and, and we tend to put people in boxes. Okay. So talk, tell us a little bit about your experience, um, you know, being in the south, being a, a, a, a gay man, and then also being on the East coast, and then you travel all over. Tell me a little bit about what you've learned, and going back to that evolving, what have you learned about the different people that you meet? Are we as polarizing or is it a lot different?

No, I think that there are s, there's such a large number of people that just want some sense of normalcy. Now, what your definition of normalcy is, is, you know, um. Is, is, you know, broad, you know. Um, but I think that the reality is, is that we all live in our own bubbles. And those bubbles are very different. You know, that is something that coming back to Arkansas after being gone for 20 years, you know, I lived in Atlanta for seven years and then I was in New York for 12. You know, you obviously get exposed to a lot of different people. You know, my first boss, Marsha Jaffe was Jewish. I had never seen a Jewish person or met a Jewish person until I moved to Atlanta. And that was, and, and I'm always very quick to say I was sheltered. It wasn't an ignorance thing. And I think that we need to, you know, really start to be careful with our language there because we automatically just tell someone, oh, you're ignorant because you don't understand my life, when really they may just have never been exposed to it. Right. But coming back to, to Arkansas, um. In this, this last four years that, you know, I've been here off and on, is that the, the bubble here is the same as the bubble I was living in in New York. It's just of two different beliefs. Right. And I think that the interesting thing is that, you know, and I, you know, I don't wanna get political, but we're obviously living in a very uncertain time no matter what you believe. Right, right, right. Um, and I think that, you know, more liberal people need to understand that people in small towns really have no opportunity and, well, let me take that back. They don't have no opportunity, but their opportunities are very limited to me. Right. A very good living wage versus what you would experience in a New York or in LA or Atlanta. Right. And. You know, I think when you live in a big city, it's just so accessible that you forget about that. Right. But I think that you're seeing that there is a large amount of people in middle America and not even middle America, look at what happened in, you know, New York with a swing into more conservative views. Where at the end of the day, people need to be heard or they feel this desire to be heard, that, hey, I feel like the world is leaving me behind in opportunity and I need someone to acknowledge that. And they get that, you know, from certain candidates. Right. Now, on the flip side of that, I don't need a person who has never left the borders of their county to tell me that they understand the world because, you know, respectfully, they don't. And I, and again, I don't mean that as they are ignorant. I just mean it as if you've never been outside this country. I, I'm not really interested in your perspective because, you know, to me, when you get exposed to those different areas, the world becomes very big and who you are becomes very, very small. And I think you start to question a lot of things. And so, um, I think that the, the moment that both sides starts to realize those things and say, and, and change our language in a little bit more of a respectful way and like have conversations like what you and I are having, which obviously I think you are and I are probably a little bit more on the same page, but a lot of my friends are Republicans. Um, and we have great conversations. I just wish that that would more broadly happen. You know what I mean is no, but yeah, I mean, I agree to disagree, but I love you and you're a great person and that it doesn't change the way I feel about you. I mean, that's really kind of the way that I've always approached things.

Right. I, I, and number one, I, I, I, I respect that. And, and again, I don't want to be the old guy or romanticize about 30 years ago because the country's always had problems

in the same boat, by the way. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. You know, but to be fair. Um, you know, people were more open to say, you know, um, speak their views and people were more open to say, okay, I disagree. And then they were able to move on. Right. And they were able to still have some sense of friendship and stuff to that nature. It seems like that's the big difference. That's the lack of evolution. You know, it seems like we're going backwards when it comes to having a conversation and, and being okay with agreeing to disagree and still move forward together. And you know, when you were just talking about a few minutes ago about, um, middle America, that there are people there that have limited opportunities and then there's people that live in big cities that don't recognize that. And again, we're, I don't want to generalize, but we're generalizing, but you know, we're not saying everybody. Right, right,

right. Um,

um. Then at the end, but at the same time, there's people in, in, in, in small towns that think that people that live, and again, we're generalizing that people live in big cities, that they're, they're wild and loose and that, you know, they, you know, they, um, are, you know, they, they're the most progressive and they're, and we know that's not true. Okay. And at the end of the day, my, the reason I'm bringing this up and I'm agreeing what you're saying is those people, in my opinion, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, they haven't evolved their thoughts, they haven't evolved, you know, because at the end of the day, and, and you know, I wanna get to this when it comes to travel, and I wanna hear your tho your points in terms of how travel can help this. But if you never left anywhere, if you've only grew up in the Bronx, New York. Okay. And you only grew up in Tulo, Mississippi. How would you know, right? How would you know that people in Tulo don't have a lot of opportunity and how would you know what the person that grew up in the Bronx, New York has to deal with? So there's no evolution there because you only know what you know based on your circumstances or your environment. Let me hear your thoughts and and how travel can help with that.

Oh Lord. How travel in general. I mean, I think that when you travel, you start to understand how big this world is. You know what I mean? And that might be like. No shit. Sorry if you need to belief that out, but, um,

no, all good, all good. Keep talking. Yeah,

well, don't, don't tell me all good. 'cause I do cost a little bit so I don't want to offend anybody. But, um, you know, the best example that I can, you know, give is I was a CRO of a tech company where, um, the CEO asked me to expand the sales team globally. Now Tony, up until about four years before he asked me, I had never been out of the country. Like, I, I have as much as I fly, I have a weird fear of flying. And so, you know, in my younger days I was like, I'm just gonna try not to do this as much as possible. But my career took me in directions that I just had no choice. And so I still white knuckle it no matter what. Um, but I started expanding a sales team into China and Japan. And I'm not sure if you've, uh, ever done business there, but it really makes you start to empathize in certain scenarios of people from other countries being in an environment that they are not familiar, right. And right. The best example that I can give is we've all heard, you know, someone maybe speaking a different language, you know, in our country. And so it will speak the language. You, you know, you or in our country, you know, we've all heard comments like that. What I always say is take that person, drop them in six hours outside of Shanghai, China and say, speak Mandarin and get back. And I can tell you it is one of the most eye-opening experiences that you will. C because when, when I was at this company, we, um, this is actually where I started to get the idea for Gibbs Lee, is 'cause of this experience. We went six hours outside of Shanghai to donate deaths to these school children. And when we got there, they surrounded me. I've talked about this a little bit as like a pivotal part of Gibs Lee. And when I say they surrounded me like a hundred kids, you know, um, in this very, very rural VI village. And I was like, what is happening right now? Like, I'd never had an experience like that, but it was also tangible joy. Like, I mean, it was like tangible joy. I don't know how else to like, like, um, explain it, but I said to my translator, that was with me, I said. Why are they all around me? You know, like, what is happening here? That was the question

I was about to ask. Like, why are they all around you?

And they said they've never seen a white person.

Mm-hmm. Now

think about that. You know what I mean? Right. Like for me, they have never seen someone in person that is white like me. Now that will completely change your perspective to go, whoa. You know what I mean? Like Right. This is a very big world. And the other thing spec specifically with China, excuse me, that was also spiritual in some way, but it also made me question, um, is that you start to really think are you a product of your environment? Because, you know, obviously there is a, there is a level of control within that community. Um, and they believe just as devoutly as you know. Some of the people who go to church here that believe in Christianity, you know what I'm saying? And so when you get exposed to that, it really makes you start to question and go like, am I just a product of my environment? Like what is the truth? You know? Um, right. Is something that I definitely went through. And so to make a long story short, you know, I think it really just obviously broadens your perspective, but you can be put in situations like the example that I was saying around like, speak your, speak, the language of this country where you go, wait, that, that is not so easy. You know, it's not just like someone is intentionally walking in here trying to disrespect my community. They just can't communicate the same way that I couldn't communicate. And so I, I, I say that every person that feels that way should be dropped in the middle of China. So maybe that'll be my next company that I start.

Well, number one, I thank you for sharing that because that's a. That's very powerful. Okay. And, and then more importantly, but let's be fair though too. There are people that, that could have happened to and still would've came back and still thought the same way. Okay. Let's just be, that's again, I keep, I hate to keep using the same word evolved. All right. Because it reminds me when I was in the military and I was, uh, I was stationed in Hawaii. Hmm. Not a bad place. No, no. It wasn't a bad place. Especially for an 18-year-old. Right. And, um, um, we used to go to Korea, uh, it was called Team Spirit. Right. And we would go to Korea, you know, play like war games and stuff for like 90 days. Yeah. And I remember being an 18-year-old kid from Detroit, Michigan, and going to Korea and talking about broadening the horizon. You kidding me? Right. I had never been on an airplane until I went to the military. Okay. And so when I went to Korea and I'm seeing, you know, the Korean people, um, and, and again, I'm generalizing, right, but they just were so, seemed, so happy and they were living in huts, okay? And as we were marching down the streets, they would come up and throw ribbons and stuff around our neck because obviously the Korean War that happened in the fifties and, uh, you know, America was there to save South Korea. And then we, that's always been part of their allies. And, and so this was that, that they never forgot that. And they still do that today. And then to be able to go to the DMZ and be at the, the, the debilitation line where you can see the other side of North Korea. And, and so those things I. When you see those things, okay. Then you recognize, to your point, and this, there was no iPhone then. There was no Facebook, there was none of that. All I knew about Korea was on a map, okay? That I didn't even look at that long. Right? Yeah. And the ba o to go there and experience that took my mind and that took how I looked at people totally different, right? However, I had friends of mine or military friends, army friends of mine that when they was there that didn't take them like that, they were still thinking, you know, uh, from Chicago, wherever they're from, Tupelo, Mississippi, whatever. And, and then the, the, the things that they would say to the Korean people, which I was appalled at and shocked at. Okay? So this is my point, is that you can be put in certain places, but you have to choose. To evolve. You have to choose to see things differently and open up your mind and stuff to that. What's your thoughts on that, my friend?

Look, I think that people don't evolve out of fear. You know what I mean? I don't, I don't know that I know of anyone who might, and maybe you do, but you know, who would say, I don't want to evolve as a human. You know what I mean? Like who would actually,

no, they're not gonna say that. Some people, well, they won't say that. They'll just say, I like what I am. I like my, and I don't want to change it. So they'll use the word, they don't wanna change, they won't say evolve. Right.

Yeah. And I think that that stems from fear, you know what I mean? Like Right. The older I get, the more I realize everyone's dealing with their same shit just like I am. Right. You know what I mean? Right. And while I may not sometimes agree with behavior, or I may find things close-minded that. You know, at the same time, I don't understand that person's experience. And so like, how can I fully just make an assumption, you know, because what movie was I watching where it was like, your parents not to, you know, that this is a, my parents, you know, um, experience, but it's like your parents were humans too, and they have their own baggage and they're, you know, I think as a kid, you never pass that on to your parent. You're, you're never like, oh, they had their own trauma, or they had their own experiences where they felt left. Then that made them react in a different way. And maybe I'm reacting in a different way. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I have thought if I'm being completely vulnerable, like my career is so important to me that maybe I'm trying to prove my worth in some way. You know what I mean? Right. Right. Sure are, are there people that can like, take a step back like you and I are having this conversation and go, yeah, why really do I do that? But there are things, Tony, that I need to work on that I ignore all day long. You know what I mean? Like No, it's so true buddy. I think we all can pick and choose where we want to evolve and where we wanna put something back on the shelf because it maybe it's too painful to, to deal with. And so I say all that because I try to come from that mindset, right? It doesn't mean that I'm the most understanding. 'cause you know, I definitely have my moments where. You know, it doesn't make sense to me why someone wouldn't want to do that. But again, I do things that I'm sure a lot of people don't understand as well. So who am I to say that my way is better than anyone else's? You know what I mean?

Right, right, right. Well, look, this is one thing that I do know. Okay. And we, it is funny that we started with the word evolve, and that's gonna be our key word throughout this, this conversation today, right? Yeah. Because you went from being in a sales leadership position, many positions, right?

Yeah.

Leading. Leading sales organizations, and typically people who are in those positions. And I've been in those positions a lot in my career. Yep. They end up staying in those positions. They don't evolve to somewhere else. Right. So tell us a little bit how you made that shift from, you know, leading a sales organization and then ended up starting Givsly. I.

Yeah. Well, I mean, one, I think that it was to prove to myself that I could do it. You know what I mean? Um, you know, when I was a CRO, I started to accomplish things. You know, I had a leader who believed in me more than I believed in myself, if I'm being completely honest. And he was like, no, I think you can expand this globally. I think you, he was very good at like, seeing certain things in me, um, that I really had self-doubt on now. Um, so with that being said, you know, I think that when you're a CRO, I remember when I became a CRO, I was kinda like, now what? You know what I mean? Like, because I, yeah. What am I gonna do

now? Right?

My thirties, I say this all the time. My thirties was all about climbing the ladder. It was all about me. It was all about how much money I could make. I was. Not sitting around thinking about how, how I help underserved communities. So going back to that, you know, evolution thing, you know, there were moments that happened, you know, between 2016 and 2018, several of them that really woke me up to say, man, going back to my comment about my friend saying, you live in New York and you have this dream. Like, I, I was like, I have experienced things that I never dreamt that I would get to experience, you know, as a young kid growing up in a town of 13,000, that that was not, um, you know, really what I, I, I thought would ever happen. And so, so, so for me, a little bit of it was to say, okay, like I've. Accomplish this. Can I accomplish this, like pushing myself? 'cause I, I get bored really easy. I have to constantly be learning. I, and so I tend to go in and I've always done that with my career. Like I'm, I'm really dating myself, but when I got into mobile advertising, no one wanted to touch it. And now think about that, like, right, I went into my director of sales at the Atlanta Journal Constitution, um, and I said, Hey, um, the girl who was um, kind of, uh, controlling that at the time had resigned and she was going to a little known company called Google. I would love to see what her chairs looked like today. Um, but, but, um, anyway, she left and I walked right into. Uh, my boss's, uh, um, office and I said, Hey, I, I wanna take over the mobile. Like, I promise I'll be able to keep up with my other work because I wanted to see if I could learn and I was genuinely interested in it. So I've, I've always kind of been that way and so, you know, I learned a lot in my CRO positions around how to run a business, and I really wanted to do something more with my life. It was those two factors of like, I really wanted to see if I could do it and prove it to myself and see if I had the instincts to do it. And, you know, it's still TBD, we've been able to survive, but you know what I mean, who knows what tomorrow brings, right? Um, and so from, from that perspective, that was really the, the approach that I'm in now. One, I think you're always in sales. In general, and I love being a sales leader. Like I love, you know, managing teams. I love seeing people grow. I love pushing people to grow. My teams that have worked for me would probably say I'm very tough, uh, to work for as much as we get on and kind of laugh. I have very high expectations. Um, but I wanted to apply that to this company and be in control of what my vision was for, for building a company and to see if I can make it happen. And I always kind of laugh at like, if you, you know, hear VCs or, or other, you know, uh, CEOs that come from a different background like product and engineering, they're like, oh, sales and marketing make terrible CEOs. I actually think it's quite the opposite. Like I think it's quite the opposite because I know how to run a p and l so I know how to look at when we're overspending and we're underspending and how to look at cash flow and all those things, um, to make the business work. But I also know how to listen to the market and adjust and weave where. I see the direction going. I think in a, in a way that might be harder for someone in an engineering role or a product role. Not everyone, but you know what I mean, where Right. A lot of that profile, again, making general statements is, you know, you're, you're technical, you're like in the zone. You tend to be, you know, someone who doesn't want to be up in front of people pitching and talking into, in, in, in front of big groups. And so I think it's been one of our strengths. As much as I see people sometimes broadly speaking in the trades, kinda like, you know, talk about a, a sales leader or a marketing leader being a CEO, I think that we have some of the best qualities to actually do that. And, you know, look, Givsly launched in 2019. I joke all the time when I'm on calls, I say we had one year of normalcy and then we had an events armed to our business, uh, high. That was the only thing we offered. And we were moving into a pandemic. And guess what, what did we do that year? We tripled revenue.

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right? Right.

We knew how to adjust the product so that it still drove the KPIs for our clients, but also adjusted to the current environment that was going on all around us. And so that is, that is an inherent skill, you know, that anyone in an organization can have. But I think in sales and marketing, that is kind of your role. You know what I mean? Right? Is that you are to listen to the market, share that feedback with product and technology, help them to like guide on how they build the products and then run the business. And, um, those were skills that I've developed, you know, in the last 10 years that I think, um. I really wanted to hone and see how far I could take it. Right, and the fact that we've survived. And look, I'm a very superstitious person, so I'm not, um, the typical type of founder that I'm like, I'm gonna be a $7 billion company next year. You know, you have all those, you know, CEOs that, you know, paint this huge vision. I'm more of a realist. But I think that that's also my training of being a CRO and knowing that I had to report into my CEO and say, Hey, this is what I think the number is gonna be, because that was going to a board, but then would hold us accountable to do this. So I was always trying to set that realistic expectation. And I think that we've, you know, been very low on fundraising versus a lot of people that were in the space six years ago when we launched,

right.

Or out of business. And I'll knock on wood, I'm not saying that, you know, anything can happen, but I do think we've been able to navigate some pretty unprecedented challenges and, and done it well. And so, and we're really proud of that.

So, so that is great. That is awesome. And I love the, um, you know, the thought process. You know, why, um. You know, sales leaders can be great CEOs, but let's back up a little bit, right? Because, you know, number one, GIBS Lee and, and just we wanna make sure that the audience is, you know, has a clear understanding of what Givsly does, right? Mm-hmm. So talk a little bit, 'cause this is a unique business model. Okay? And you were working, um, in the ad sales side, right? Mobile, the whole nine yards data, um, where it was all about getting brands to spend money. Um, with your company, and then you guys would market and advertise them across whatever properties. Well, Givsly is totally different. So how did you come up with the idea of that business model? Number one, explain what the business model is and then how did you develop, come up when be inspired enough to say, this is what I'm going to do in a, in a industry that typically from this type of mindset doesn't actually, you know, follow that from a, a, a, a nonprofit, from a, a charity standpoint, from their business and in the different charities that they, they they support.

Yeah. So look like I started researching the company in, or, or researching the idea for the company in, uh, 2018. Right. Um, I was at my friend's lake house, they all went to the lake, and I just, have you ever had those moments where you're like, I feel creative, like something is pushing me to kind of like, get the, my ideas down? Um, and so I knew I wanted to tap into a little bit of my skillset, but I also wanted to look at trends and, and there was a ton of, you know, research and articles around the fact that society's, um, confidence in government had eroded and, you know, as far as like helping, you know, underserved communities and things like that. And they were looking to toward their companies to actually, uh, take up that charge. And I think it's really interesting the time we're living in right now, because I think a lot of people have, you know, amnesia around that time and they're gonna be. In for, I think a, a rude awakening at what expectation happens. You know, you, so when you say

they, when you say they have amnesia and there's gonna be a rude awakening, like be specific, like what do you mean?

I think that they forget the expectations that their employees had to feel purpose and, and listen. I don't, I don't like the, I don't like words like purpose and good and CSR and social impact. We are a values company. Mm-hmm. We are all about aligning consumer values with brand values. Right. And the research today shows that 82% of people. Choose values as one of the signals for who they buy from. Like brand loyalty is, and this was some of the research that, you know, I was looking at it some of the time. And so at that moment I was like, this is bigger than a volunteer day. Now we do volunteer days. You know, don't, don't, don't, uh, you know, get me wrong. That is an element to showing your values. But values is bigger. Values is bigger than inclusion. Values is bigger than sustainability. Values can be. We are a brand that cares about childhood cancer or education or nutrition. Right? Um, the, the ex CMO of Cho Chobani said our values was, was that, you know what I mean? And so I think that we go to the, the, the polarizing topics. Very much topics that need to be discussed do not get me wrong, but the, the opportunity is bigger than that. We go into brands all the time and we say. If I told you 82% of your consumers were women, would you do little 5%? Cause marketing campaigns that, you know, are sitting over here. And so you wouldn't, you would apply that to everything. And I think that if brands are gonna speak to consumers, especially young consumers, they have to think about how a value strategy is incorporated in everything that they do. Right. Or they're not gonna survive in the future. They will, they will become, um, I don't, I don't wanna say they'll become obsolete, but they're, they're gonna become stale. I truly believe that when it comes to younger consumers.

Right, right. So just to be clear though, so Givsly obviously operates from a value add, right? In terms of advertisers will give you a certain amount of budget and then you take a little bit of that budget or they pick out exactly what cause they want to be able to contribute it to, is that correct?

Yeah. Think about us as like in, as like a Warby Parker for advertising and marketing. Everything that we do drives a donation, and everything that we do is rooted in responsible topics. And so, you know, going back to, I, I guess I didn't fully complete your, your question, so No, no. All good. My friend. You, you, you, Chad.

It's all

good. Good. As a CEO to, to, to talk about your three products. But, um, you know, so from that perspective, there's three different ways to work with us. The first is how we launched, which is experiences that are all rooted in values. And so whether that is a panel discussion of employees talking about what it's like to be a, a, a black employee, um, you know, in an, an office and to feel, you know, accepted and included and, and that they belong all the way to a volunteer experience in a food pantry. Like we do those things, but what we do is we come from the lens of taking the customer with their partner so that they are spending that time in a more. I don't wanna say deeper way as if others, you know, situations aren't deep, but, you know, in a, in a more values focused way where you're connecting as humans versus like a five course dinner or a baseball game or a concert where you get tickets. Not that those things are bad, trust me, we, we do those things, but you don't have to do it all the time, right? So, so that's the first piece. We then have a B2B platform where people use it for sustainability efforts to replace things like swag with a donation. So, Hey Tony, come by my booth at CES and we're going to offer a $25 donation. When you scan this QR code to one of these three charities, you select it is more sustainable. The swag doesn't end up left in your hotel room or in a landfill. We all know that that's what happens, but people do it out of habit and fear that they're gonna be the only ones to, God forbid. You know, not have a branded hoodie that we have 700 of, you know what I mean? Right. And again, the one thing I wanna clarify, it's not that swag is bad, it's more about the duplication and giving people an option who don't want it. Like what's, what is the harm in that? Like, I don't want your notebook with your logo, and I'd rather that $10 go to the American Cancer Society, that's a win. Right. You know what I mean? That's not something that, you know, people should be afraid of. And then the last piece of our business and is, um, you know, our largest piece of, of our business is the media side. And the media side is when consumers engage with ads, we drive a donation, um, to the charity of that brand's choice. And so what happens is it's really a win-win. The brands are able to showcase their values, which consumers are looking for. And again, it doesn't have to be the polarizing topics, it can be. Feeding America right now, we're doing a ton of campaigns with CPG, uh, brands with Feeding America because of food insecurity at the holidays. Um, and so from, from that perspective, um, it really enables those brands to showcase those values, but in a way that increases the performance of the, their product campaigns. Mm-hmm. So what we go in to these brands and say is like, okay, cause marketing cool, you know, you're doing this on five to 10%. You see all these very fluffy ads, you know, and, and I don't say that to say that they're bad. We, we run, you know, cause marketing campaigns, if that's where the brand is, we meet them where they are. But we are also very vocal at saying, look, this is eight out of 10 consumers. Look for this. And if purpose drives profit, which we always say, then what about this support of this charity says to buy more hamburgers or to buy more lipstick or to buy butter. Nothing about that says, and it's, and what CMOs will tell you, not publicly, it's the first to get cut, right? Because of that lack of tying. ROI. So we have literally said no to very large brands on campaigns where we're like, we wanna do this right? We want you to see what we are seeing, where we increase attention by 15%. We can, up to quadruple brand awareness that we've seen. Um, video completion rates up 18%. That are product campaigns that just incent the consumer by showcasing that nonprofit donation and the value of the brand. Right? And so that's a big focus, uh, of ours,

buddy. It's, it's fantastic. And, and the effect that you guys have had thus far, right? $2 million, 500 non-profit organization. So obviously you guys are doing a lot of great things, and not just for the advertiser, but for the community as well. So my final question I have for you. What, what, what's your ultimate goal? What do you think the greater, what are you guys trying to achieve on a bigger level? What, from an impact standpoint, what do you think Givsly could have from a business standpoint as well as the, the community?

Well, I'm trying to decide if I wanna tell you.

Wait, is this 2025 planning that we

No, no, no. I, I'll, I'll, I'll say this. At a very high level, our goal is to be able to provide the best solution that predicts consumer values for brands. Um, and so I'll leave it at that, you know, and so we're, we're working on a lot of things, and that is not to say that brands are being inauthentic by maybe in New York, showing support of one charity versus what they may show as a charity, um, in Arkansas, right. That may speak more to this community. Um, the reality is, is that a lot of brands tend to have three to four. Maybe even more nonprofit partnerships. So if you are able to deliver products that can predict that mm-hmm. And deliver campaigns with that messaging to know that that person or that area is gonna lean more into that value, why wouldn't you want that? Right. You know what I mean? Um, so, so from that perspective, that's really our bigger, longer term vision.

Well, that's exciting, my brother. It's, and you know what, at the end of the day, you, they definitely have the right person at the helm, okay. Somebody that is very passionate, um, very worldly, um, and more importantly has a heart of goal, okay. That wants to leave. Uh, I have the

moments,

well, look, stop, hold on, buddy. When I, when I'm giving you accolades, you know what you're supposed to do. Just say, I'm not, I'm not good

at taking conflict. Yeah.

So, so just say thank you. That's all you gotta do. Thank you, Tony. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Right. But all that being said, regardless if you're good at taking accolades or not, those are the facts. Okay? Because you wouldn't be doing what you're doing if that wasn't who you are. And I really love what you're doing. So, final thoughts, my brother? What do you wanna leave the audience about your journey? Givsly. Let's hear it.

Hmm. I, this may sound weird to say, but I think it's relevant for. The time. I think there's a lot of people that just wanna live their life. Um, whether you're talking about queer people, the trans community, um, black people, Hispanic people, people just want to live their life. And I think that we have to get back somehow for both sides understanding that and that this amplification of the scary part of it and whatever narrative is created on both sides Right. For right, right, right. Um, really conservative people that may be scary to my community, to that community understanding. And I'll just use the trans community because, you know, my heart breaks for, for what they are going through and how their life is being exploited. Um. That at the end of the day, they, people just wanna live their life and, and have respect and discipline. And we need to understand that there is more people like that than the 15% on both sides that jump on these cultural moments. Um, or a video of someone maybe answering a question, you know, in a very, you know, uh, what one might say unintelligent way, um, that we have to understand that that's really what everyone wants, you know? Right. Um, and so the temperature needs to be dialed down somehow, or we need to get back to a place where we can all talk about that and we can talk about it in the middle and go, yeah, you know what, like there's certain parts of the queer movement that's complicated. It is, you know what I mean? Like there, it's not black and white, you know? Right. From that perspective. And then there's certain areas of the, uh, conservative movement where people feel hopeless and left behind and they want the same opportunities. And guess what? That's really fair. Right. You know what I mean? And so, um, that's what I would leave people with. And I, that may not be the answer that you expected, but it's, um, something that I think about a lot and, um, I think more people need to be mindful of.

Well, number one, thank you my friend. And number two, let's just be clear here. It's not the answer that I'm looking, uh, that, that I care about. It's what you wanna leave. Yeah. Right. And I think what you left is who you, what you just got from stating is who you are and you're a hundred percent right. And hopefully we can, you know, that's my goal. My goal here on A Black Executive Perspective podcast is to have people come on no matter what their background, no matter what their race, no matter religion, what, who the political, uh, uh, platform is to come on and chat so we can all learn from one another because we have, to your point, we have way more in common than we have, uh, uh, things that, that's a part. And I, and to be fair, the our so-called leaders are exploiting that. To keep us divided so they can stay in power. And it's really up to us to break those shackles and to come, uh, and come together. And I really appreciate you breaking the shackle to come on, BEP to talk, tell your story and the things that Givsly is doing, and then obviously the goals that you guys have. So, Chad Hickey, I wanna thank you for coming on A Black Executive Perspective podcast, my brother. It's been fantastic. I learned a lot from you. More importantly, I can see why that you and your organization is doing well, because they have a really good person at the top. So, and that person we is going to help us with our call to action. So you stay right there, my friend, and we're gonna help you. You are gonna help us with BEP's call to action. So I think it's now time for Tony's tidbit. So the tidbit today is always, is about what we discuss today, what our guest Chad Hickey and the tidbit is. And I quote, when we listen and celebrate. What is both common and different? We become a wiser. More inclusive and a better organization and country. And that's by Pat Waters. And you heard a lot of that today from our guest, Chad Hickey. So he's gonna help us stay right there. And the thing that I don't want you to forget about is every Thursday, make sure that you check out. Need to know with Dr. Nsenga Burton. You definitely don't wanna miss, uh, Dr. Burton's segment on A Black Executive Perspective podcast where she dives into timely, crucial topics, keeps you up to date on what's going on, right? Stuff that's gonna shape our community and world. So don't forget to tune in and gain insight and deepen your understanding on these topics. Every Thursday, black executive perspective podcasts need to know what Dr. Nsenga Burton. I hope today that you enjoyed our episode from Resilience to Leadership, a journey of purpose and impact with the CEO and founder of Chad Hickey of Givsly, and now. He's gonna help us and this is our time for BEPS Call to Action. Our goal is to decrease all forms of racism, discrimination. In every aspect of life. And so we're asking everyone to help us do this with our call to action. This go starts with less LESS, and I'm gonna kick it off. L stands for learn. So more importantly, you wanna learn and teach and learn about racial and culture nuances that you are not familiar with. It is a lot Chad talked about earlier, about traveling and going to different places, and by doing that it opens up your perspective.

Chad, the EASE stands for empathy. So be open to understand diverse views. I think don't cut people off just because they don't agree with you. Actually make an effort to push through that instinct and really understand where that person's coming from.

Absolutely. And then after you, uh, apply empathy, now you wanna do share s stands for share. You wanna share your insights and the things that you learn to your friends and family, so they can be enlightened as well. And then the final S stands for Stop. We wanna stop discrimination as it walks in our path. So if Aunt Jenny says something at the Thanksgiving table and it's inappropriate, you say, aunt Jenny, we don't believe that. We don't say that. And you stop it right there. So if everyone can incorporate less, LESS will build a more fair, more understanding world and more importantly. We'll all be able to see the change that we wanna see because less will become more. So I really appreciate you joining us here on A Black Executive Perspective podcast. You can continue to watch all of our episodes, listen to our episodes on YouTube, apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to follow us on all our social channels of TikTok, LinkedIn X, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook at a black exec for our fabulous guest, Chad Hickey, CEO, founder, a Givsly. I'm Tony Tidbit. We talked about it. We learned about it a lot. We love you and we're out.

A Black Executive Perspective.