I have spent a lot of time here on Stuck, not Broken, talking about

shutdown, like how to recognize it, work with it, and even move through it.

Usually I talk to you, the listener, as if you are in shutdown, but in this

episode, I want to flip things a little bit and talk about what it's like to

be with someone who's in shutdown.

Specifically what it's like to be their partner and what you

can and cannot do about it.

If you're with someone who is in a dorsal vagal shutdown, you're

not just watching it happen.

You're in it too in your own way.

Your experience is real, and it's confusing and frustrating, and it's okay

to talk about it without judgements, without blame, and without pretending

that what you're feeling doesn't matter.

So this is for the partners out there, the ones who feel like

they're losing their person.

The ones who don't understand what's happening, the ones who feel like

maybe they're making it worse.

I'm Justin Sunseri, by the way.

I'm a therapist and coach, and I run the unstuckinging Academy, a private

community for those who love what I do here and want to take their

self-regulation efforts to the next level.

Welcome to Stuck Not Broken, a podcast which is of course not therapy,

nor a replacement for therapy.

By the way, this is a response to a YouTube listener's comment slash question.

So I'll start by describing what I think many partners experience when someone they

love is in shutdown or goes in shutdown, depending on the severity, of course.

Sometimes it might seem like they're not quite there.

Their eyes look different or blank, or maybe even lifeless.

They're not moving or they're moving slower.

They're not responding the way that they usually do or used to.

They lack energy for life or it comes and goes and spurts.

Uh, when energy is there, it's spent on time.

Wasters like video games and social media doom scrolling.

Or they come out of shutdown enough to be irritable, then go right back into it.

They might not be fulfilling basic life responsibilities regarding work,

self-care, family, and uh, social life.

If you know about the nervous system and understand the Polyvagal

Theory's, autonomic state shift sequences, you might recognize

what's happening in your partner.

If that describes them, they're in shutdown.

But then sometimes they're not because they have energy all of a sudden.

And then they're shut down again.

But knowing what your loved one's shutdown is doesn't necessarily make it

easier to deal with, obviously, right?

You might be witnessing anything from full on dissociation to someone just lacking

motivation to take care of the day's.

Household chores.

It might feel like they're not fully there anymore and and that can

feel like losing them in a sense.

Even if they're sitting right in front of you, judgmental thoughts

might spiral, uh, might pop into your brain like, this person doesn't care.

They're not trying hard enough.

They're resistant, they're apathetic, or they just wanna isolate and hide.

You might be taking on unnecessary guilt, like blaming yourself

for your partner's shutdown.

Or maybe you think that you're making it worse somehow.

Or that you're not good enough for them to come out of shutdown.

All of this, the judgment about them and yourself just

adds friction to the process.

It doesn't help them and it doesn't help you.

And I'm sure you're aware of that.

You're not choosing to have these thoughts and feelings.

They're just kind of there.

So on my end of things, talking to you.

There's no blame.

I'm just calling it out.

We have to tell the truth about these things.

We have to acknowledge what's what's happening, right?

These stories in your brain, they're not true.

We both know that.

And we'll talk more about it later on, but let's review what we're talking about-

dorsal vagal shutdown.

This is a polyvagal theory term.

It's a biological state.

It's what happens when your nervous system perceives a life threat or

overwhelm and decides that the best protection is to go offline, to

conserve energy, to dissociate, maybe to become still quiet or away somewhere.

It's an immobilized collapse in the face of a life threat.

Not a conscious choice, but a brainstem, autonomic nervous system

level, biological occurrence.

Shutdown looks like depression.

In the polyvagal theory.

This state is probably what underlies the depression label, the diagnosis, and

it's how I personally view my therapy clients- low energy, task avoidance,

anhedonia, isolation, dissociation.

Shutdown, and, and depression, to me seemed to be kind of the same thing,

but shutdown down is a, an actual explanation versus just labeling somebody.

The person to shut down isn't choosing it.

They can't just snap out of it because you asked them to or, or beg them to,

or because they logically, they know that they should come outta shutdown.

That's not the way it works.

They're nervous systems in a protective state, and that's not something

willpower or external force can change.

So let's talk about what you as a partner of someone in shutdown can and cannot do.

First, you cannot regulate your partner out of their shutdown state.

You cannot force them out of it.

You cannot think them out of it.

You cannot love them out of it.

You cannot be patient enough, present enough, or good enough to make it end.

Their shutdown is theirs.

It belongs to their nervous system, to their history, to

their context, to their capacity.

And that's not something that you have power over.

Similarly, you don't control how long it lasts.

Some shutdowns are brief.

Some linger.

Some cycle.

That duration is not determined by how well you show up.

It's determined by their system's readiness to shift, and that's

on their timeline, not yours.

Second, you can't control whether they do their own trauma recovery or

self-development or unstucking work.

You can't force them into therapy, into self-regulation practices,

into nervous system awareness.

You can't make them want to change or heal.

That has to come from them, ultimately.

I think a lot of partners carry a hidden belief that if they just do enough, say

the right thing, offer the right kind of presence, if they sacrifice enough,

then their person will get better.

That's probably a setup for burnout and resentment because

it puts the responsibility for their healing on your shoulders.

It probably sounds absurd as I say it, right?

If someone you knew told you they were putting it on themselves to fix their

partner, it probably get you to raise your eyebrows in, uh, some nervous disbelief.

To put it plainly if I haven't done so already.

Your partner's recovery out of shutdown is ultimately not on your shoulders.

Their nervous system, their shutdown, their timeline, their willingness

to engage with their own unstucking process, that is ultimately all theirs.

That plain truth might feel cold, or like I'm saying that you don't matter.

That, and that is not it at all.

What I'm saying is, let's be honest about the boundaries of your

influence so that you can actually be effective in the ways that do matter.

You are a part of their life, so even though you don't control

them, you of course have influence.

Think of yourself and your partner as two cogs in a two cog machine

spinning in the same direction forever.

If one of you acts differently, the other one must as well.

If one of you refuses to turn in the same direction, the

other must respond differently.

They have to.

While you can't control their shutdown, there's actually quite a bit you can

control that will have influence on them.

Control them?

No.

Fix them?

No.

Make them come outta shutdown?

No.

But are there things you can do to increase the likelihood they may

start the process of exiting shutdown?

Yeah, I think there are.

I will address four potentials broadly.

I am sure you're gonna hear these and say yes, but many times.

I don't know your life, and it's up to you to adapt these ideas to your own life.

If you want to.

Number one, your own nervous system state, this is huge.

When your partner is in shutdown and you're getting frustrated, impatient,

disappointed, or shut down along with them, then you're, you can see it as your

nervous system is, or your body is sending you a signal and your partner feels it.

They might not be able to articulate it, but their system is.

Picking up your activation or lack of activation, and that

could actually make it harder for them to shift outta shutdown.

Now, it's not your fault, of course.

But in times like this, it's important to regulate yourself in whatever way that

you know works best, step outside, do a breathing exercise, flex and release

to use any activation within you.

It doesn't really matter.

Just do what works best for you.

Regulating yourself may help your partner in times like this because it

doesn't add friction to the process.

Your partner has their own shutdown to deal with.

They don't need your judgment on top of it obviously, right?

Now, you're absolutely allowed to have your own thoughts and feelings

about your partner's shutdown.

You can feel disappointed, frustrated, fed, up, and more.

Those are your feelings and they are real.

In no way am I asking you to not feel them.

Okay?

Can we agree on that?

When you have these feelings, it's up to you to deal with them, not your partner.

So take the time to regulate yourself as best you can when you can.

Also, you don't need to keep these feelings to yourself.

You're allowed to voice them to your partner.

I am in no way asking you to keep your feelings a secret.

I actually think it's very important for your loved one to

know what you're going through.

If.

They're open to hearing it and honestly, maybe sometimes you do need to express

your feelings, even if they're not open to hearing it, but it just needs to be said.

However, I encourage you to express your emotions and

thoughts from a regulated state.

You don't have to be calm and happy.

You can be upset.

You can be frustrated and disappointed and whatever else.

I want you to speak and listen with compassion for yourself and your partner.

I want you to speak and listen with empowerment, not out of controlled anger.

I want you to speak and listen with truth telling, not shaming and blaming.

Yes, your partner is affecting your life with the decisions

they make from their shutdown.

Whether or not it's intentional is irrelevant.

You're allowed to speak to them about how they impact you if you want to.

That's one way the cog in the two cog machine stops spinning

in the same direction and chooses to do something different.

I want you to look at self-regulation in two ways.

The first is in response to your partner's decisions.

You feel something and then you regulate through it.

This helps decrease the intensity of of what you're going through, and

it can help to simmer the situation, which is better than nothing.

But the second way to self-regulate is through your own practices to

become a self-regulated person.

It's the stuff that you do not do because of your partner, but because you just

want to be a better self-regulated person.

These practices like simple daily mindfulness help to create a regulated

baseline that you bring to every area of your life, including your partner.

This second way is very proactive.

It's not in response to your partner or something that happened

at work or to your parents.

It's proactive.

You are practicing self-regulation just to be a self-regulated person.

And if you're doing this, your partner's decision making will still

impact you, but less intensely.

And when you do address it, you'll do so with more empathy and compassion,

empowerment, and also honesty.

Does being a self-regulated person cure their shutdown?

No.

That is out of your control still.

But it can open the potential for them to begin to come out of shutdown because

much of the friction of judgment and shame and blame is at least lessened.

And you'll be offering more co-regulation opportunities,

which we'll talk about coming up.

It is still up to them ultimately, but your level of regulation and the

decisions you make in the relationship as the cog that refuses to turn in the

same direction will or could nudge them indirectly toward some kind of change.

If you're struggling with self-regulation, the unstucking Academy might be

the next piece that you need.

In the Academy, you, I and other students meet regularly for

self-regulation practices such as the Nervous System Capacity Builder, live

practice, and the Self-regulation Simplified eight week cohort.

You'll learn essential, proactive, and sustainable practices to build

a strong self-regulation baseline.

And you won't be alone.

The community is small, it's welcoming, it's wise, and there is zero pressure.

You can learn more stucknotbroken.com/unstuckingAcademy.

The link will be in the description.

Stucknotbroken.com/unstuckingacademy.

Okay, so what else can you control that might impact or influence your partner?

The second thing you can control is your boundaries.

You get to decide how much space you need.

You get to decide what tasks you're willing to carry

and which ones you're not.

You get to decide when you need to step back for your own sake.

You get to decide how much physical and emotional labor

is, uh, sustainable for you.

You can decide to say no to some things and not other things.

Clear boundaries are not selfish.

For example, saying, "I can help with the dishes tonight, but I need you to do

the laundry tomorrow when you're feeling more present," that's a healthy boundary.

But saying I'll do everything, the dishes, the laundry, your work, emails,

all of it -because you're in shutdown- is, uh, that's an unhealthy boundary

and that's now at your expense.

Again, clear boundaries are not selfish saying, "I won't send that email to your

boss for you, but I can proofread it when you're done," is a healthy boundary.

But saying, "Sure, I'll call your supervisor and explain why

you're not coming in today," that crosses into territory where you

are now responsible for managing their professional consequences.

Healthy boundaries are about supporting without taking over.

The other is about absorbing their accountability, their responsibility,

which actually prevents them from finding their own agency and this can create

resentment when it becomes a pattern.

Unhealthy boundaries- when you take on more than you probably should-

only reinforce the behavior and the decisions of the other person,

whether they're in shutdown or not.

Be the cog that refuses to turn in the two cog machine and the other

one must do something different.

Boundaries are essential to your self-regulation efforts.

If you're sacrificing everything, if you're running on empty.

Then you're not actually available in the way that matters.

Unclear boundaries lead to resentments and depletion that does not help anyone.

Taking care of your own boundaries is how you stay present.

It's how you sustain yourself.

And paradoxically, it can help influence the other person to find their own

agency and start making changes.

Even small ones, which actually is really good for shutdown is small changes.

Again, you don't control your shutdown partner, but your decisions- what

you do or do not take on- will influence their decision making.

The third thing you can control is your expectations

and the stories that you tell.

Well, kind of, I don't think we exactly control our thinking, sorry

to all the mindset gurus, but we can at least be more aware of and

challenge our thinking, especially if we're more self-regulated than not.

Are you expecting them to regulate quickly?

Are you expecting them to snap out of it because you've been patient long enough?

Are you personifying their shutdown thinking that it's about you?

That they're rejecting you?

That if they really loved you, they'd be more present?

Those stories shape how you show up, obviously, right?

You get to catch them, those stories, examine them and,

and maybe even shift them.

When you notice these thoughts, don't reject them.

Just notice and maybe reflect on what you're feeling.

Journal about these thoughts if you like, but prioritize your emotions in

the present moment as you're processing.

And finally, the fourth thing you can control is what you communicate.

You get to be honest.

You get to say, I'm struggling with this too.

You get to ask, what do you need from me right now?

You get to offer presence without demand.

You get to set expectations, not demands, but honest clarity

about what you can and can't do.

You don't have to pretend it's easy.

You don't have to pretend to be fine.

You can be real, and sometimes that realness is actually more

settling, more safe for the person in shutdown than trying to be perfect.

So, let's talk about co-regulation.

You've heard this word on the podcast and in the Polyvagal Theory world, I am sure.

I think it's misunderstood in general.

Co-regulation doesn't mean you regulate them intentionally.

It doesn't mean your presence alone will shift their state.

It doesn't mean that if you're calm enough, present enough, attuned enough

that they'll come outta shutdown.

Co-regulation isn't exactly a tool that you get to use to

get the outcome that you want.

If you're attempting to utilize co-regulation as a tool to change

someone, it's not gonna work.

Your intention is to change the other person.

How do you think that's gonna go?

If someone tried to change you through co-regulation, would that feel right?

Or if they were simply a regulated person without any intention to

change you, would that feel different?

I think it does.

Co-regulation with intention is a distorted form of connection.

Yes, you're allowed to want that person to change, but when you

share a smile with them, it's just to share a smile with them.

Same with touching their arm and laying next to them.

It's a moment in time that you get to share.

They will pick up on that naturally and their body may lean more into regulating.

And co-regulation is not exactly enough.

Yes, it can impact someone and bring them more into safety, but the shutdown

is still there, even if it's less.

It will still come and go.

Eventually, the shutdown partner needs to deal with their shutdown.

Your genuine and spontaneous co-regulation will benefit them.

It will help to lay a foundation necessary for them to then do something

different in order to continue their own self-regulation process out of shutdown.

Basically, co-regulation is not something you can choose

to use to make someone change.

It's something that you unintentionally offer when you

are grounded in your safety state.

Again, self-regulation.

Okay, so what's the real job for the partners of those who are in shutdown?

It's not about having the perfect response.

It's not about saying the right thing or creating the perfect environment.

Those things matter, but they're not the core of your job.

A core is what's true for me right now.

Can I be present without needing them to be different?

Can I take care of my own nervous system?

Can I be honest about my limits?

Can I let their shutdown be what it is without making it mean something about me?

Can I stay in the game, in the relationship, in the connection

without sacrificing myself?

That's the quote unquote, work.

It's super difficult and it's ongoing.

It, it may lead you to very unpleasant, but very honest answers.

Maybe you do have a limit as much as it pains you to admit it.

This dynamic in the relationship and your own self-regulation efforts are not in

one- A one and done solvable problem.

It's a practice.

Some days you'll nail it.

Some days you'll be activated and frustrated and you'll say

something that you wish you hadn't.

Some days they'll come out of shutdown and things will feel better.

Some days the shutdown is gonna linger.

Sometimes they'll come outta shutdown and into mobility, but waste it on video

games or social media doom scrolling.

So that's all part of the picture.

I invite you to be honest with yourself every step of the way

about how it's impacting you and your self-regulation efforts.

I think what's happening in relationships where one person experiences

shutdown is that there's a a lot of invisible pain on both sides.

The person who shut down is struggling with their own

shutdown, their own capacity.

Their own disconnection.

And the partner is struggling with helplessness or confusion

or frustration, and maybe even a false sense of responsibility and

blame and shame toward themselves.

Both of these sides are real, but please know that you are

not bad for being frustrated.

You're not weak for being overwhelmed.

You're not selfish for having boundaries.

You're not failing by not being able to regulate your partner.

And it's possible- it's actually more likely that if you can ground

yourself, if you can be honest about your limits, if you can let go of the

false responsibility and have healthy boundaries, you will show up differently.

You'll be more genuinely present.

And that presence, that realness, that groundedness, that's what

co-regulation actually looks like.

So take care of you.

Notice when you need to step back.

Regulates your own nervous system, especially proactively as part

of a daily intentional practice.

Set boundaries without guilt.

Be honest about what you're struggling with, and let your

person's shutdown be what it is.

Not a reflection of your love or your capacity, but a protective

mechanism that their body is using for now, even if it's been a long time.

If you like what I'm doing here and you're not quite ready for the Untucking

Academy, I also have the perfect resource for you to spend more time with me

and go deeper into all these topics.

It is the How I Can Help You Page.

It's on my website, and if you go to stucknotbroken.com/Start,

you'll see all my offerings laid out from every price point and you'll, you can

choose whichever one is best for you.

Alright, thank you so much for spending time with me here on Stuck Not Broken.

Bye.