[00:00:00] Lauryn: All right. Well, Nikki, welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:03] Nikki: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[00:00:06] Lauryn: Um, so what is your background in sales? So you teach people how to sell,

[00:00:11] Nikki: Yes.

[00:00:13] Lauryn: what is your background before, like, they kind of always say that like before you teach people to do what you do, you do the thing. So do you have a long history in sales and what were you selling

[00:00:22] Nikki: Yeah. So I do have a long history in sales. As a matter of fact, I got my first professional sales gig as, uh, from a college project. So that's how long I've been doing this. So I've been in sales for over 25 years, actually now close to 30. And I started in the technology space. So I started

[00:00:42] Lauryn: 25 years ago? What was that calculators?

[00:00:44] Nikki: know, I know.

[00:00:46] It was actually the very first piece of technology. This is going to really age me. It was flat panel displays that sat on top of overhead projectors. It was the first thing that you could hook to your computer and then sit it on one of those light, you know, those

[00:01:02] Lauryn: Okay. I, I, yep. I remember. Yes. I remember. Okay. So flat panel displays that sat on top of what of projectors.

[00:01:11] Nikki: that that overhead projector that your math teacher would put their transparency and write the math problems and it would project it up onto a screen. It had a light source below it. So we we saw now they're just projectors like it's all combined, right? But we sold these panels.

[00:01:28] It looks kind of like, um. Imagine a really fat iPad, like really fat and heavy iPad that would, that was trans, like it went all the way through. So there wasn't like a back to it and it would sit.

[00:01:41] Lauryn: piece of technology.

[00:01:43] Nikki: Yes. So it would sit on this overhead and then it would project your computer image up onto the screen.

[00:01:49] Lauryn: So now we call that a project, but you were combined, you were making a computer projectable. That's pretty cool.

[00:01:56] Nikki: So that was the first piece of technology that I ever sold. I did that for a long time. I had a lot of success in the, so I, I mentioned the technology space, but specifically in audio visual. So I was on the video side for. Many, many years of my career and had a lot of success there. I was the top producing rep in North America for one of the largest companies in the world.

[00:02:18] And I then moved to the audio side, which is a whole different. Ball game. I started selling encrypted wireless audio conferencing equipment. Like I sold actually to NASA Because they're all their stuff has to be encrypted. So we had this very unique product and then in 2013 I started salesmaven with this idea of Wanting to hang around with really cool women.

[00:02:44] I came from a very male dominated Industry I was usually there was in the

[00:02:49] Lauryn: mean, it's sales seems like it traditionally, I mean, honestly, up until, I mean, we, we see things like mad men, you know, like sales was masculine. It was men, right?

[00:03:02] Nikki: Yeah, it was the like, go out and hunt the big game and

[00:03:05] Lauryn: Go on the golf course, go to, yeah,

[00:03:08] Nikki: Yes. Yeah. So I never played golf. Well, I have tried to play golf, but I, that was, yeah, it was, it was back when golf, you take clients golfing, actually took clients to do lots of fun things, but, it was kind of the heyday, crazy, fun sales.

[00:03:23] Times I spent a lot of time entertaining in addition to selling because that was kind of how you built relationships. And so when I started salesmaven, it was this idea of, like, I was ready to do something different and I wanted to be around people who are full. full of passion because I didn't really ever understand when people were like, all of your passion.

[00:03:45] I was like, I don't, I must be passionless because I don't get that comment at all. and so I started hanging out with these super passionate people, which were female entrepreneurs. And the thing that they often struggled with was to make money in their business. And the reason they were struggling is because they didn't understand the selling process.

[00:04:03] They didn't understand how to have a really. Interesting conversation with somebody and be strategic and move it to the place where you could actually close them as a client. And I just started helping some of them on the side, wanting to just, again, kind of hang out with them. And my business was eventually born out of somebody pulling me aside, going like.

[00:04:22] Why aren't you teaching people how to do this? The stuff that you teach, it works. It's easy. This person was getting a lot of results from, um, what I was helping with her, helping her do. As a matter of fact, her CEO called her and was like, something's changed. What's what's changed? Cause your sales are rocking.

[00:04:39] And she's like, Oh, I'm working with a sales coach, but I wasn't a sales coach. I was just Nikki. And, uh, yeah. So salesmaven was born from that back in 2013. And I will say it's been the best gig I've ever had. I absolutely love the work that I do. And I really specialize in teaching people how to have more successful sales conversations, because I truly believe that conversation.

[00:05:03] Is where it's at when it comes to making the sale. I always say, you know, Selling isn't something that you do to another person. It's something you do with another person. And when you can have successful conversations and be strategic and move them towards that close Then it just gets easier not just for you as a seller, but frankly for the buyer,

[00:05:24] Lauryn: Well, and that seems like, you know, I don't know anything about the history of sales or like any of that, but like, that seems like the thing that stuck from the Mad Men era or the going on the golf court. So like, um, my. When I think about like old school sales, I was actually born in Southern California.

[00:05:49] And my dad was a salesman for a fire alarm company. He actually like helped get into like Disney. And so like, I hear him tell these stories from the, from like the heyday of. Sales in Southern California. So like, there was a lot of stuff going on. There's like, I like to, I'll like talk to my mom, their divorce.

[00:06:12] And I'm like, dad was doing a lot of Coke in the eighties. Right. And she's like, Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There was a, so anyway, so when we look at like, what I think of like the history of sales, that's my frame of reference, but what I would, a guess from what you're saying is like, one of the things that stuck, one of the things is that it was a, an emotional connection that happened.

[00:06:32] Like you went on the golf course for a reason. And so like part of that still stuck. So take us into 2025. Is there, are there general principles to sales, whether you're a man or a woman that are still just like, these are the hardcore truths that have stood the test of time when it comes to selling.

[00:06:58] Nikki: Yes, absolutely. And I was in the nineties, so my heyday wasn't the coke, but it was a lot of other crazy things. I've got stories. Boy, do I have stories. So, but the thing that has, it's, it's this relationship. So I, I always say that everything I teach is built on the foundation of rapport. So you've got to have rapport first and, and always in the conversation.

[00:07:21] And so. One, here's the, the tried and true things that I think are so crucial that were the same back then that

[00:07:30] Lauryn: I actually don't know what rapport means. Like I, I would use it regularly as if I did, but like, is the, is rapport, I have authority and you should listen to me or is it we've connected on our children both play soccer

[00:07:44] Nikki: report. It could be that we've connected on our children both play soccer, but it's really that, let me maybe give you an experience and see if this is relatable to you at all. Have you ever had an opportunity where you met somebody for the first time and within 10 minutes you just feel like, where's this person been all my life?

[00:08:04] Like I just feel,

[00:08:05] Lauryn: of my guests I, by the end, I'm like, we're best friends now.

[00:08:09] Nikki: exactly. Okay. So that is that connection. So. There's actually a, a term for it. it's called, well, let me, there's a, I'm, I feel like I'm going off the rails here,

[00:08:20] Lauryn: Oh, I'm yep.

[00:08:20] Nikki: called entrainment. So entrainment is like how we get in connection with another person. This happens in nature, in entrainment, um, and synchronization.

[00:08:31] We love to sync up with people. And I'll give you an example of this as women. If you put a bunch of women working in an office together or living in a home together, do you know what happens?

[00:08:43] Lauryn: Our periods sync up.

[00:08:45] Nikki: Yes. But for anybody listening, especially males, have you ever had a meeting like, okay, girls, let's all start on Monday.

[00:08:53] Lauryn: Wait, no,

[00:08:55] Nikki: because you don't need to because your bodies do it naturally. You sync up naturally with people that you spend time with and around. So that happens over time. But there are things that you can do to get in rapport with somebody to, to get in sync with somebody quicker by paying attention to your own behavior and theirs and making some adjustments.

[00:09:17] Now, the flip side of this is, have you also ever met somebody and 10 minutes into the Oh my gosh, has it been two hours? I need a nap. This person is exhausting. Okay. So those are people that are so out of sync with you that it's almost uncomfortable to be in conversation with them.

[00:09:37] Lauryn: And it's their fault, right? Like, if you're naturally good, like, they just suck, or, because like, some people are just unsinkable. Like, listen, we're in healthcare, so we deal with like, people, and this is not their fault, most of the

[00:09:51] Nikki: no, no, no.

[00:09:52] Lauryn: these people are just like, chronic pain, let me tell you. Well, back in 1991, I was riding a horse, and you're like, for fuck's sake, Mary, I am trying to connect with you, and this is not working.

[00:10:06] Nikki: Yeah, I don't need the life story to make an adjustment here. Yeah. I get that.

[00:10:11] Lauryn: So 10 minutes in, we're not

[00:10:13] Nikki: 10 minutes in. Yeah. Now, if you want to expand your customer base, there's ways to add flexibility to your behavior to make it easier for that person to be in conversation with you. Um, what will happen is you can start adjusting back to your normal style.

[00:10:29] And as long as you guys have had this rapport, they will start making adjustments to you and you'll find a happy medium with

[00:10:36] Lauryn: we do this?

[00:10:38] Nikki: So one of the ways is, is you pay attention to rate of speech. That's one way that you can do it. So I don't know, I've, I've listened to your podcast, but I listened to podcasts on a little bit faster speed, just cause that's my, I like a little bit faster talkers.

[00:10:54] So think about on a, on a spectrum, on a scale of one to 10 and 10 is somebody who's a really, really fast talker. Sometimes they don't even take breaths between their sentences. They just, they, they have a thought. It comes right out of their mouth and they just kind of keep talking. So that's somebody that's on the really high.

[00:11:08] And then on the other side is somebody who really takes Their time. I can already tell more like you're ready to like smack me, right? It's like speed up Nikki. Like nobody wants to talk that. So, but the fact of the matter is, is that some people have this, this might be surprising. It was to me to learn.

[00:11:28] Some people have thoughts. They actually think about

[00:11:31] Lauryn: their head.

[00:11:32] Nikki: And then sometimes they decide not to actually say them. Who are these

[00:11:36] Lauryn: heard of these people. I've heard of these people.

[00:11:39] Nikki: I know. Okay. So when you meet somebody who has a different rate of speech than you, it can be uncomfortable to be in conversation with them for very long for you, but also for them.

[00:11:50] So if you want to earn their business, if they are a potential client and you know, like, gosh, I could, I could help them. If you're willing to adjust your rate of speech just a bit, you don't have to match it. You're like, if, if you're a, if you're a seven and there are three, that's a huge spectrum difference, right?

[00:12:08] There there's a lot there, but if you would be willing to just slow down to like a five, what will happen is they will start to speed up to like a four. And then you can find yourself back at like a six, six and a half, and they might even get up to like a four and a half. And now it's not so uncomfortable to be in conversation.

[00:12:26] Cause they'll start to adjust to you. Cause it's, it's back to this entrainment it's. It takes less energy to be in sync with somebody than it does to be out of sync. This is why people who you feel like this person has drained me, I don't want to ever talk to them again. It's because they're so out of sync with you.

[00:12:45] Lauryn: Okay.

[00:12:46] Nikki: So if you're willing to adjust, so I always say my, my all time favorite quote is blessed are the flexible for, they shall not be bent out of shape.

[00:12:54] Lauryn: Alright, so changing speed. What's

[00:12:57] Nikki: Pay attention to your rate of speech.

[00:13:00] Lauryn: Um, what's another way to establish rapport with someone?

[00:13:05] Nikki: Another way to establish rapport with somebody is to, and I'm going to go real sales here and I could go like, we could just do the whole conversation on this and I could go like tick, tick, tick down the line of all these ways. But one of the ways is to, instead of making statements at people ask questions.

[00:13:24] Lauryn: Suck at this.

[00:13:26] Nikki: Okay. This is a game changer when it comes to selling. So you had asked earlier about like, what are those tried and true things that translate back from the eighties all the way now here in 2025. And it really comes down to if you want to be good at sales, You have to learn how to ask better questions and ask questions that you then pause and let the person respond to. You don't ask a question and then answer it for them and then keep moving because that breaks rapport. But if you will ask a question versus make a statement at somebody. So for instance, let's say you are, you know, talking to a potential client as a chiropractor and you have a sense that They need to adjust their, maybe their posture, right?

[00:14:15] You could say to them, you really need to adjust your posture. And it. Yeah. Your

[00:14:20] Lauryn: like, you know, that old hump lady. You're going to be here unless you change that. They do. They say

[00:14:25] Nikki: Yeah. But if you want to, if you want it to land softly and keep the rapport intact, instead of saying your posture sucks, you need to change it. You could say, now, have you ever considered what a change to your posture might actually do for you longterm,

[00:14:42] Lauryn: Take so much more time to like. To like get them. Yeah.

[00:14:48] Nikki: do you want patient compliance?

[00:14:50] Lauryn: Yeah. Uh huh. Yeah. And getting people on board. Like I've definitely, you know, this is like a really common thing of like, you know, like the Socratic method where it's like, when you can tell them something, but when you get them to discover it about themselves, it's so much more lasting in this.

[00:15:06] And it's like, how do you get better at. Like asking questions instead of just telling people.

[00:15:16] Nikki: Yeah. One is that you make a commitment to yourself that you are going to ask questions that, and even if it's just that you start with one question, you might come up with like, this is my question. And I'm going to ask everybody. This question like today, everybody I come into contact with. So the thing about getting better at sales, I truly believe everybody can be successful at selling.

[00:15:41] It doesn't matter your personality. It doesn't matter. Even if you're a curmudgeon, you can still be successful at sales. It's, it's a skill and you learn it. And it's like a muscle. And just like how, if you decided like, I really want to buff up my arms or I want to tighten up, you know, this like extra stuff that I got going on and you decide. I'm going to start doing, this is something I do every morning. I do counter pushups. Like I. Push ups for my camera. Okay. So when I started, like I couldn't do 50, no way. I had to build up to 50 and now I do 50 every morning. It's like part of my routine before I get into the shower, 50 counter push ups and I can do them easily.

[00:16:24] But when I started 10 was hard, so you have to build a muscle. So just like with selling, just like with asking questions, it's like building muscle. It means you have to practice. You have to do it over and over again.

[00:16:35] Lauryn: good questions? Like, are there like within sales teaching, are there like, okay, you don't know what, cause that's the other thing is you said, ask good questions.

[00:16:43] Nikki: Yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:16:45] Lauryn: Like are there some like seeds to good questions that I

[00:16:48] Nikki: Yes. Yes. Okay. There are two types of questions. First, I want to comment on that with selling. Okay, good.

[00:16:55] Lauryn: Cause

[00:16:58] Nikki: There's the questions that I call are the questions to identify that you're talking to a right fit client. So these are questions like. what's important to you in regards to your health, for instance, that is going to help you identify, like, could this potentially be a client or is this somebody who's like, I don't care about health at all.

[00:17:17] As a matter of fact, I don't even think health is a thing. Probably not going to ever hire a chiropractor, right? Like if they don't really care about health. So like, what's important to you about this? That's, that's a, like. Kind of a right fit type question, or what are you willing, um, to invest in order to solve this problem?

[00:17:34] That's a right fit question. Because if you're talking to somebody and they're like, I might spend 10, well, they're not going to get a treatment for 10. So they might be a blessing release. Like don't waste your time on people who are not good fit clients. So those are the right fit questions. Okay. And there's more, as a matter of fact, I just shot a training yesterday on this.

[00:17:53] And then there's what I call the expertise questions. These are the ones that plant seeds about. Really how awesome you are and how working with you is going to be the game changer in their business. Now, a lot of people, instead of asking these type of expertise type questions, they want to just tell people their feats and speeds, right?

[00:18:13] It's like, here's my resume. Here's all that I've accomplished. I've done this. I've done that. I've helped this person. I've helped that person. That's okay, but realistically to somebody who's more interested in what's going on for them, because most of us think the whole world revolves around us. I don't know if you've noticed, but everything that happens is happening to me for me or against me.

[00:18:34] Like there's kind of nothing else. And so your perspective clients are the same. So you giving your like resume basically about all your accomplishments, that's not very interesting to them because it doesn't really. Make a difference to them, but if you,

[00:18:49] Lauryn: question? Yeah.

[00:18:51] Nikki: so here, here's what, uh, one of the things I recommend doing is thinking about what are the things that make you unique?

[00:18:57] What are your unique benefits or advantages? So for instance, if you, if you have one right off the top of your head, Lauren, I'm happy to like play this with you a little

[00:19:06] Lauryn: Um, so we're the only pediatric trained chiropractor for like

[00:19:11] Nikki: That, that is,

[00:19:13] Lauryn: so let me, would I be like, is taking your child to someone who actually knows what the hell they're doing important to you? Or do you not care? Would I ask that question?

[00:19:21] Nikki: yeah, now you might soften it a

[00:19:23] Lauryn: soften.

[00:19:25] Nikki: okay, so you might say, how important is it to you that when you take your child to see a chiropractor, that they're actually trained in pediatric chiropractic, uh, pediatrics. Cause now you just planted the seed. Like why would you ask that question if you weren't trained and if your staff wasn't like an expert on that.

[00:19:45] So now because nobody has ever asked them that question, they don't know how important it is. But as soon as you ask their brain, how important is it to you? Now they're like, it's really important. Now it's a priority. It's different than you saying we're the only trained pediatric because now that doesn't require any thinking on their part, but if you ask them a question, our brains are like Google.

[00:20:09] If you ask Google a question right now, it doesn't matter what the question is. Google is trying to give you an answer, but you have to ask Google a question before it can give you an answer. Brains are the same way. So you got to ask them a question so they can realize how important it is that pediatric chiropractic is a thing.

[00:20:29] And I'm going to take my child to a specialist.

[00:20:31] Lauryn: Yeah. Okay. I feel like they're going to see me coming though. So like in general, um, I, I have a, I have a lot less mindset issues with sales than like the average chiropractor. Um, you know, I think a lot of chiropractors are just, you know, they're very, because you go into this profession, you, you go into healthcare cause you want to help people.

[00:20:51] Right. And then like, I didn't realize until. Maybe half, not even halfway through chiropractic school. Like it was like semester two that I was like, wait, not everybody just like loves the chiropractor. Like I'm going to have to like. Sell because like dentists don't have to sell. Like vets don't have to sell.

[00:21:13] Pediatricians don't have to sell like, no, the other, like chiropractic is this like unique and, you know, healthcare where you're like, I have to sell people on it. So a lot of chiropractors really struggle with this. Where I still struggle is. I, so like, if I go buy a car, I, you know, and some guy comes up to me and like, whatever, and it can be, okay, we don't need to pick on the man.

[00:21:39] Like it's a chick comes up to me and starts like saying certain things in my head. I'm like, I fucking know what you're doing. I know exactly what you're doing. And you're not doing that good of a job at it, actually, you know, like, because the real good sales people, you don't see. So like, my fear is I'm going to ask this question and they're going to be like, I know what you're doing and they're gonna see me selling to them because I don't want them to feel like they're being sold to.

[00:22:06] Nikki: Well, okay. I have a few comments back to that. Yes, it does. Here's the thing, your job in a sales conversation, there's three things. One is to identify, am I talking to a potential client? Like, do they have a problem, a need or some kind of a struggle?

[00:22:24] Lauryn: Yep. They've got a spine. Yep. They are a potential client.

[00:22:26] Nikki: Okay, so the second thing is, do I have a solution that would potentially solve this problem, meet this need, help with the struggle, right?

[00:22:35] Now here's the third one, and this is the one that most people skip, is do I have permission to put that solution in front of them?

[00:22:42] Lauryn: Tell

[00:22:43] Nikki: Okay.

[00:22:43] Lauryn: my office. Yeah.

[00:22:45] Nikki: Yeah. So they called your office. So you do have some, some implied permission here. You're not just going up to some random dude on the street saying, I'm looking at your posture.

[00:22:55] You really need chiropractic. And as a matter of fact, here's my card. You should call us tomorrow and make an appointment. Like that person would be like, I don't know you lady from anybody else. And I don't really appreciate it. Like we don't like when people just come at us. But when somebody has that, like I'm calling to investigate or I'm calling to find out more, I'm actually calling you, you're in the consultation.

[00:23:19] There is somewhat of an implied agreement. Now, before you put a solution in front of them, you might still ask permission. Again, you might ask a few qualifying questions to make sure they're a good fit for the practice. And then you could say, based on what you've shared, it does sound like you would be an candidate for some of our programs.

[00:23:37] Is it okay if I Talk you through those now, because now I just asked permission. I don't go right into sales like, Oh my gosh,

[00:23:44] Lauryn: Why, why is that important?

[00:23:46] Nikki: because they're ready now to hear the offer. So they're ready to now be sold to you. They've just given you permission. Go ahead and sell to me. If they don't give you that permission and you just skip the step, you're kind of like the person who accosts somebody who's going into the grocery store to buy milk and wants you to buy their thing or sign up for their program.

[00:24:04] Lauryn: Even though they're sitting in my office and like

[00:24:08] Nikki: There's a little bit

[00:24:09] Lauryn: No, I mean, when you say it, it makes sense where it's like, I can see where that conversation feels better now, but it's just something I would have never thought to do of like, can I tell you what I, what you're sitting here to find out? Am

[00:24:23] Nikki: It's now again, it's back to this idea of like their brain is now engaged mode, right? It's not like you just, you don't, you can't just pull up Google and just sit and look at it and expect it to do something. You have to ask it a question. If you want their brain to be engaged about the offer that you're about to put in front of them, we've got to get their brain engaged.

[00:24:44] We got to ask them the question because as soon as they say, yes, tell me about the programs, they're leaning in. They're listening. They're paying attention. Thank you.

[00:24:53] Lauryn: I asking them? When am I asking them? How important is. It to take your child to this, how, what are your health goals? How invested are you? Is that conversation happening before the, can I tell you, or does that

[00:25:09] Nikki: It's happening before typically. Yeah. The questions. Yeah.

[00:25:13] Lauryn: as I'm like gathering. And then I'm like, would you like to hear what I think basically?

[00:25:17] Nikki: Yeah. So just to maybe put some clarity to this, I teach a five step process to a sales conversation. I call it the selling staircase actually wrote my third book around it. And the reason I teach, um, a successful sales conversation in the, like this idea of a staircase is because most people understand that you ascend a staircase one step at a time.

[00:25:37] You don't stand at the bottom and hop up to the top stairs and you definitely don't bring somebody out of the blue and put them at the bottom of a staircase and say, Just trust me, hop up to the top. They'll look at you like a crazy lady. No, thanks. I might bang my shins or stumble or, you know, sprain an ankle.

[00:25:54] So this idea of this staircase is to help people understand where am I in the sales conversation and what's the logical next step. So you don't go necessarily right from, I just met you by my thing. Because we all get those all day long, right? They're showing up in our emails. They're showing up at the grocery store.

[00:26:14] They're showing up everywhere. People just like buy my thing, buy my thing, buy my thing. And you're like, I don't even know what your thing is. So just to break down these steps

[00:26:21] Lauryn: was going to say, I was like, no, I need to know the steps now.

[00:26:24] Nikki: So step one is introduction. This is about making a powerful first impression. Now, if they have called you, they're already passed up one because they wouldn't know about you otherwise.

[00:26:33] But if you're out and about in the community, if you're at a networking event, or if somebody's hearing you on the podcast for the first time, you, your job is to make a powerful first impression to get people going like, who is this? Or what's this about? Or like, I'm interested to listen. Step two is create curiosity.

[00:26:50] Uh, this is the most misstep in the selling process. This can happen on social media. This can happen on your website. This can happen in a conversation with you. We got to pique people's interest. So when you tell me that you're out and about, and you're meeting people that are like, I have to explain chiropractic, I have to actually sell chiropractic because it's not dentistry.

[00:27:10] I think that was kind of the example that you gave. Well, You have to learn how to create curiosity. And speaking of Dennis, my Dennis had in his office this big poster that used to say, um, you don't have to brush all your teeth. Only the ones you want to keep. Okay. So you don't have to create curiosity for everybody.

[00:27:29] You come into contact with only the ones who you would like to become patients or clients, depending on what you call your, your,

[00:27:36] Lauryn: How do I create curiosity?

[00:27:39] Nikki: Okay.

[00:27:39] Lauryn: now in my head, I am like being very coy and like, what do you do? Wouldn't you like to know

[00:27:47] Nikki: Okay, now that's a little bit, okay, that, that might take in it, that might take it a little bit too far, but, um, I feel like you'll, you can take this because this is going to sound like, okay, you've got a crazy lady on your podcast, but I feel like you might enjoy this. So I compare creating curiosity to the difference between how you call a dog and how you call a cat.

[00:28:07] So bear with me for just a second here. So if you think about how people call their dogs, I don't do, are you a dog or a cat

[00:28:13] Lauryn: I have, I am a dog lover, but I also have a cat, but my cat's an asshole. So,

[00:28:17] Nikki: Okay. So, you know, you can't call your cat the same way you call your dog. If you say to your dog right now, like, come here, baby, or come here, boy, or come here, girl, whatever, right?

[00:28:25] Your dog is probably like, I don't even know what's going to happen, but I'm, I'm so in, it could be a walk. It could be a bath. It could be a treat. It could be a ride in the car. I don't care. I'm just in, right? Like dogs love that. You change your demeanor. You change that. Like, like you change your voice even when you call your dog and they're so in. Unfortunately, in a sales conversation or when you're meeting people for the first time and, and you're really passionate about chiropractic, of course you are. Cause you know, it

[00:28:51] Lauryn: I see where you're going. This is a really good,

[00:28:54] Nikki: And if you come off with dog calling energy, people push away, they go like, Oh, too much. It's too strong. It's too much.

[00:29:01] It's like, and I don't know, you've probably met these people before. Like I, I get these people all the time. You attend a conference, they see you at a conference and they come up and they're like, You're Nikki Roush. Oh my gosh. I looked at your website. You know what? You could really use some help with your website.

[00:29:15] Like your website needs some major improvement. And you know what I do? I do websites.

[00:29:20] Lauryn: Let me guess, you do

[00:29:21] Nikki: gosh. Yeah. And you're like, okay, dog calling energy and offensive. Right? Like it's too much. Okay. So. Back to the cat calling. So when you want to call your cat, you got to have a little intrigue. You got to do the, like, and you said your, your cat's an asshole.

[00:29:39] So your cat might not even come to

[00:29:40] Lauryn: I'm like making like little scratchy noises.

[00:29:43] Nikki: Yeah. But chances are your cat will at least give you a look like what impressed me. Let me know if I want to know more.

[00:29:52] Lauryn: have cat energy. Can

[00:29:55] Nikki: want to create curiosity, we have to have what I call here, kitty, kitty statements here, kitty, kitty. There's, and again, I have a whole course on creating curiosity, but I'm going to give you one that will be like an easy one to get started with.

[00:30:10] And we'll see if you like it. Cause You might not and that's okay, but think about how you answer really basic everyday questions. So here's a basic everyday question. As a matter of fact, I think I asked it to you. The very first question I asked you when we met, which was today is, how are you? How are you right now?

[00:30:31] You can have like a basic answer, which is fine, good, fantastic, living the dream, whatever. But that doesn't actually open the door. To give me anything to like work with here. So if I say, how are you, think about something that would open the door that would lead people to want to know more about you or chiropractic or whatever it is that your business is.

[00:30:54] So I just listened to a podcast. This might be old for you, but I listened to one of your podcasts and you were talking about, so if I was you right now and back in that time, and this might be too long ago so you can tell me. But. and I said, how are you? I might say something like, Oh, I'm fantastic. The family's just about to head to Japan.

[00:31:14] Lauryn: Got it.

[00:31:15] Nikki: Okay. Now I would only say that if I wanted to talk about Japan and why the family was going to Japan. But if I want to talk about chiropractic or something about the business, I might say something like, Oh, I'm fantastic. Because my business just brought in these new. Um, I, I heard you talking about this on the podcast to something about like a, um, a light, a light therapy, something about light therapy.

[00:31:40] So you could say, oh, I'm fantastic because we have a brand new offer for light therapy or shock therapy or whatever you said. Okay. Now you, all you do is you give a sentence. Or two, any, anything more than three sentence answer to the, like, how are you question and you're in dog calling energy. Right?

[00:32:01] Lauryn: Yep.

[00:32:02] Nikki: So if you said something like that, right, of like, oh, we're, you know, we're doing this red light therapy or we're doing this new, this new, you know, sauna thing in the, in the office or whatever, I could then go.

[00:32:15] What does that mean? Or who is that for? Why would you do that? Now it opens the door for you to talk a little bit more about that and how that helps people and the benefits clients receive. And then what happens, so we're back on step two of the selling staircase. When you create curiosity. The logical thing that happens next when you're talking to a potential client is they then start to give you buying signals.

[00:32:38] Buying signals are verbal and nonverbal cues that people give that indicate interest. An example of a buying signal is let's say I say something about this new thing that you guys are doing in the office and I say something like, Well, what, what would be the benefit of that? And you answer the question.

[00:32:55] And then I go, that's so interesting because you know, one of the struggles that I have right now is, you know, with my, um, you know, I feel like I have inflammation all the time. And then that's a potential buying signal. Cause you could say something like, well, one of the things that this specifically addresses is inflammation.

[00:33:12] And the benefit of addressing inflammation is X, Y, Z. Then. You're going to follow up with an invitation, you're going to say, is that something you'd like to come in and try?

[00:33:21] Lauryn: Oh, see, oh, I, I don't know. Is that step three? Are we at four? Where do

[00:33:25] Nikki: Well, we're going, we're

[00:33:26] Lauryn: like you just went to five.

[00:33:28] Nikki: Well, I, I went to like, it's a potential, like you could actually book an appointment or if that's too much. Okay. That's too much for

[00:33:36] Lauryn: That was a little, that got, that like jumped a dog energy to me. I was

[00:33:39] Nikki: Okay. A little too far for, okay. Okay. Hang with me then. So you could say, is that something you'd like to learn more about?

[00:33:46] Lauryn: Okay. Yep. I can. Mm hmm.

[00:33:49] Nikki: Now we're going to move to step three, which is the discovery process in the sales conversation in the selling staircase. Okay. The discovery, the objective there is to ask the right questions that leads people down this path to wanting to hire you. Okay.

[00:34:04] Lauryn: by the time they're already sitting in front of me as a new patient,

[00:34:10] Nikki: They're probably on

[00:34:10] Lauryn: of on step three.

[00:34:12] Nikki: Yes,

[00:34:13] Lauryn: like your, either your website, your Facebook ad, your day one, like the phone call that they had. So really step two is our front desk.

[00:34:24] Nikki: it's your front desk. It's the people in your on your team that are out in the community talking to people. It's stuff that's being posted on social media. It's this stuff content on your website. It's your newsletters. It's it's all the places where you're like. There's like this touch right this way for people to connect there has to be some curiosity in those pieces If there's not if people won't ever lean in and go tell me more What is that or how do I get some of that in my life again if all you're doing is talking at people Instead of talking with them, talking at is like, here's, here's this new thing that we're offering in the business.

[00:35:05] But if there isn't like, here are the benefits that, that you would receive or you receive when you do this, is this something you'd like to learn more about? Or is this something you'd like to have an initial consultation around or whatever it is? If you're not issuing invitations, you have people I guarantee you right now who are thinking to themselves, you know, I've, I've always kind of been interested in chiropractic, but I don't really know if I, if it's for me. Until you invite them, then their brain gets to decide. I've always been interested in it. I'm not sure if it's for me. Maybe I should test it out. We got to get them to the, maybe I should test this out. Maybe I should give this a try. Should I give it a try? Yeah, I think I will try it and see if it is actually for me.

[00:35:49] That's how you get more people coming in. This is how you're going to make a bigger impact in your community, in your business, in the lives of the people who get the advantage of having a session with you.

[00:36:01] Lauryn: Okay, so they're in my office. Three.

[00:36:04] Nikki: So we're in discovery. So we're going to ask questions to identify. Yes, this is the right client.

[00:36:09] Yes, they've got a problem. And then I'm going to ask permission to put some solutions in front of them because I don't know. And you tell me, I don't know this about your business, but can people buy just a one off session or do you have packages or is it like, how does that

[00:36:24] Lauryn: can buy a one off. We de incentivize based on, like, price. So, like, yeah, um, but they kind of have to, they still have to go through, like, a whole intake process to get to that one off.

[00:36:38] Nikki: And the intake process is, is it a paid, um, service? Okay. So when you're talking to somebody. And you're, they're in the office and you've identified like, yes, we could help them. Then you're going to say, we actually have an intake process that gets you started. Is that something that you're, you're open to hearing a little more about?

[00:36:58] And then now they say, yes. So you explain the intake process. So now we're in step four, by the way, we're in proposal. This is where we're laying out an offer. This is where we're, we've got their permission and we're going to tell them how they can buy from

[00:37:10] Lauryn: like, is the offer. Okay.

[00:37:12] Nikki: Yeah. And then I lay out, like, here's the intake process.

[00:37:16] This is the benefit of it for you. And here's the price. Okay. Then I'm going to bring in step five here. Step five is the second most missed step in the selling staircase. And this is the closed language. And I, when I, I want to clarify here, I don't mean that you absolutely have to actually like get their money, but if you're not getting closed language out of your mouth, And your front desk too, by the way, if they're not issuing closed statements, they are not making it easy for people to buy from you.

[00:37:46] And therefore they won't because of something called decision fatigue. Have you heard about decision fatigue? We all have it, right? I don't know if you know the stats, but they say that the average adult makes a certain number of decisions every single day.

[00:38:02] Lauryn: That's

[00:38:02] Nikki: Have you heard about

[00:38:03] Lauryn: Oh, yeah.

[00:38:04] Nikki: Okay. So, um, for the listener, if you haven't heard this, think about how many decisions on average a day you think you make.

[00:38:12] And Lauren, if you know the number, great, but if you just would give a guess,

[00:38:16] Lauryn: Um, I would guess two thousand.

[00:38:19] Nikki: okay. So they say the average adult makes between 30 and 60, 000 decisions every day.

[00:38:28] Lauryn: according to Google AI, 35, the average person makes 35, 000 decisions in a day, seemingly subconscious what to wear, what to eat, how to respond to situations. Many are subconscious.

[00:38:41] Nikki: So we have overload now because our brains are tired and because our brains are frankly a little bit lazy, our brains want to do the bare minimum because they're tired. If we don't have a decision put in front of us in the form of a closed question, we often won't make a decision. We'll postpone it and think about your own life.

[00:39:02] Lauren, have you ever thought to yourself, like, I probably should take some action on this, but it wasn't easy. And so then you postponed it and then six months have gone by and then pretty soon two years have gone by.

[00:39:14] Lauryn: Oh, I mean, honestly, like, ironically, uh, rescheduling a tooth cleaning, teeth cleaning, like, like called when they're canceled. Be like, I'm not gonna be able to make it. I'm so sorry. Call me back. We'll get this rescheduled. And then it's like, they call back three days later, but like, I'm with patients and I'm like, yeah, I'll get around to calling you and like, yeah.

[00:39:31] Mm

[00:39:33] Nikki: made it easy in that moment and said, Hey, no problem. Let's get it scheduled right now. You probably would have. So just like, okay. So back to this. This. Okay. So the intake process, the price for that is this. Then we issue closed language. We say, would you like to go ahead and get that scheduled now?

[00:39:50] Okay. And then you wait, you zip it, you wait, you wait and let them respond because their brain needs to process. Do I want to schedule this now? Can I afford this? Uh, is there a reason why I wouldn't schedule it now? You've got to make it so easy for people and the easier you make it for people to get that next session scheduled with you to book their.

[00:40:10] They're, you know, chiropractic appointment to sign up for whatever new program that you're offering. The easier you make it for people, the more likely they are to do it because we love easy and easy means in the moment while I'm thinking about it right now, not like, Hey, take some time to think about it and just let us know when you're ready.

[00:40:30] Nobody's going to let you know when they're ready. Cause they're never going to. Think about it again, because they're bombarded with their 35, 000 other decisions that are now in front of this decision to come in and have this session with you. And it's not until they're in so much pain that they can't, they can't even drive their car that they now are like, okay, do I go back to Lauren?

[00:40:51] Or do I just go with this chiropractor who just sent me a flyer in the mail?

[00:40:56] Lauryn: Mm hmm.

[00:40:58] Nikki: what happened? We didn't make it easy for them.

[00:41:01] Lauryn: Yeah, at the end of our, um, so we, like, it's a review of findings. So this is where we'll sit down and we'll go over like, okay, this is what we found. You know, these are your symptoms. This is, you know, how we think we can help. And then we go into like, so I'm recommending this many visits over this many months.

[00:41:20] Um, these are your payment options. And then I end with like, so what would you like to do? And then like, that was something like one of the best pieces of sales advice that I have, um, have held onto and is like, and then you shut up. Um, and so first of all, are you okay? Like, so I literally am going like, okay, so you can pay up front or you can pay weekly.

[00:41:41] What would you like to do? Are you okay with that? Like that question or

[00:41:45] Nikki: Yes. I want you to say, which do you prefer?

[00:41:48] Lauryn: Which do you prefer? Okay.

[00:41:49] Nikki: Yeah. I want you to say, which do you prefer? You can pay up front or you can pay weekly. Which do you prefer? Cause now you're saying to their brain, go ahead, make a decision.

[00:41:58] Lauryn: and sometimes people will say like, so then I shut up and most of the time, you know, it is like, they, they'll sit and they are thinking and like, they're literally calculating, like, okay, do I just put it on the credit card? Should I get that like dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. But sometimes they'll like look at me and be like, oh, I have to decide now?

[00:42:18] And I'm like, yes, yes, you do.

[00:42:21] Nikki: Yeah. To make it easy for you. Let's get started. Like, let's get it on your calendar because most of us live and breathe our calendars. And if they don't have an appointment on their calendar to come into the office, to have a session, like they're going to postpone getting that session scheduled for weeks, months, years.

[00:42:39] And how is that going to benefit them? It's not. So it isn't about being pushy or salesy because I think you said at the, at the beginning of this, like you got into chiropractic because you wanted to be of service. Like you care about the people that you are serving. That you're interacting with. You care about the people who are coming into your practice.

[00:42:58] So in order to serve, you have to be willing to extend yourself in this way to make it easy for the other person in that moment. Now, if they say, you know what, I need some time to think about this, or I need to talk to my spouse.

[00:43:14] Lauryn: Oh, yeah. What do I say then?

[00:43:15] Nikki: Yeah. So here's what I want you to say, but we'll see how realistic this is in your practice.

[00:43:21] This is what I advise my clients to do is I would say, great, uh, what additional information would be helpful for your spouse to, to know, or what, you know, to help you guys make this decision. So check to see if there's anything else they need. And then I want you to say, when do you think you'll have that conversation?

[00:43:39] Let's schedule a time now to circle back. And answer any questions that come to mind, and then talk about next steps for getting you scheduled. Because if you get another time on their calendar, and you could, if it, if this worked in your, in your practice, you could say, what do you think about us scheduling your first session?

[00:44:00] We'll schedule it a week or two out. You have that conversation with your spouse, and if for some reason, you know, you're not going to be able to keep this appointment, call us within 48 hours and cancel it. Cause now if it's on the calendar, they're so much more likely to keep it. And if you have a scheduled time to chat with them again, you know, like how did the conversation go with your spouse?

[00:44:22] What questions came to mind? Are you ready to get started? What will happen? I call these circle back calls. So let's, I always say, let's schedule a circle back call. That way I can answer any additional questions that come to mind. And we'll talk about next steps for getting you scheduled.

[00:44:36] Lauryn: Okay. So, but, um, so I really like this and I want to figure out how to implement this like Monday. So am I scheduling a circle? Okay. So most of the time, a lot of it is women. And so they're like, I want to talk to my husband and I'm like, absolutely. I understand. You know, because our care plans, you know, are like 1, 500 or two that, you know, and yep, okay.

[00:44:56] I completely understand. When do you think you'll, you know, is there any information that you think your husband will want to know that we. Didn't discuss or that you want clarity on. Um, when do you think you'll have that conversation? They're probably saying tonight. They're probably saying like tonight or tomorrow morning when he, um, I don't feel like, like I'm trying to like smooth out the corners here of like, am I scheduling?

[00:45:20] Okay, so you're going to talk to him tonight. when would be a good time for us to, so like, are we scheduling that call tomorrow with my front desk calling or am I saying like, great, so let's schedule your first appointment two days from now. You see where I'm

[00:45:37] Nikki: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:45:38] Lauryn: I scheduling?

[00:45:39] Nikki: you two options because it needs to be what would work best in your practice. Um, best case scenario would be that they booked that appointment, but that might be too pushy and it would mess up your schedule if they cancel last minute and I don't want to mess up your schedule.

[00:45:54] Okay. So if you say, okay, great, let's get a time scheduled that our front desk is going to call you tomorrow. end of day, just to see how the conversation went and then potentially get you scheduled within the next couple of days. Uh, what is a good time for them to call you tomorrow? And then you get it on the calendar because what will happen is they aren't, they're going to see, Oh, You know, so and so Sarah from the front office is going to call me from Lawrence practice.

[00:46:22] Like I'm going to hear from them at three tomorrow. So I'm going to have that conversation with my husband tonight and then we'll make a decision. Now if they, if they have that conversation and the husband says no, they might just shoot you an email and say, no need to have that, that call today at

[00:46:40] Lauryn: Do I tell them that I, do I give them that out?

[00:46:45] Nikki: can, if, if you're, if you feel like your front desk is wasting a bunch of time on tire kickers, like people who are not going to buy, then you could give them that out. You could say now, if for any reason, you know, you're not ready to move forward or the conversation doesn't go as well as you hoped, then you're welcome to just either call the office or shoot an email that you want to cancel that, that time to talk.

[00:47:07] Like you can give them an out. You don't necessarily need to, unless you feel like, Oh my gosh, every time my front desk calls them, they're just like, it's a waste of time. But what I find, sorry, go ahead.

[00:47:19] Lauryn: Well, so that's what I was going to ask is like, is there, what's the polite way? Because I feel like when I look at, when I get the, I need to talk to my husband, like in my head, I understand, but I lost it.

[00:47:34] Nikki: Not necessarily though.

[00:47:36] Lauryn: but when I look statistically,

[00:47:39] Nikki: Okay.

[00:47:40] Lauryn: at the act, like, yeah, on paper, I'd be like, no, that makes sense.

[00:47:43] 95 percent of the time I need to talk to my husband is a Minnesota. Nice way of saying we're not doing this. So is there a way

[00:47:56] Nikki: Let me check. Let me check that stat with you really quickly. If I may. Are you scheduling circle back calls?

[00:48:03] Lauryn: no, we've never done

[00:48:04] Nikki: So that stat is going to change. When you schedule circle back calls, and here's why is because if they get on that call with you, if you they, if you actually have that call, I guarantee you, your close rate is going to be 50 percent or higher on that club.

[00:48:20] Lauryn: But how do I ask them? Like, are you just telling me, like, is this a no? And you're just like, I'm going to talk to my husband. I'll call you. Like, what's the polite way to

[00:48:30] Nikki: most of the time they won't, they won't schedule a circle back call with you, they'll say, you know what, I'll just let you know. And then you say, okay, and then I bless and release because I don't believe in chasing clients. I think if you chase clients, they turn into toddlers. So if you say to a toddler right now, like, I'm going to chase you.

[00:48:47] They don't even know why, but they're off running. So if somebody says to me, like, don't call me, Nikki, I'll call you. Then I say, great. You're totally welcome to call. I'll be happy to hear from you. And we'd love to, you know, help you when you're ready. And then I consider that a blessing release. I consider that the, I think you called it the Minnesota.

[00:49:04] Nice. No. Is that what you said? Okay. So that's like a Minnesota. Nice. No to me. And I'm like, Hey, the ball's in your court. Now you own it. I'm not going to chase you.

[00:49:13] Lauryn: Okay.

[00:49:13] Nikki: When somebody will schedule a circle back call with me, I have a very high chance of closing that. And if they actually keep the call,

[00:49:21] Lauryn: actually keep it. Cause then

[00:49:22] Nikki: my close rate is

[00:49:24] Lauryn: of Minnesota nice is yeah. Tomorrow at 10 is great. I know exactly when to not answer my phone.

[00:49:30] Nikki: That's right. That's right. And then I would leave that message like we had a call scheduled today at 10. I just want to check to make sure. Are you okay? Is everything all right? Please let us know that all is well with you and give us a call back. Um, when

[00:49:44] Lauryn: don't call,

[00:49:46] Nikki: Bless and release.

[00:49:47] Bless and release. They can come back when they're ready. Again, you don't need to chase clients and you don't want your front desk like chasing after people who are like, please stop calling me. I don't know how to be Minnesota nice. And I don't know how to even say like, no, thank you.

[00:50:02] Lauryn: Right. Vicki, this. It was a fucking amazing episode. I really, really enjoyed this a lot. Um, how can, so you said, you mentioned you had a book. Like, how can people get more of this? Because I do feel like we got to rapport. That, that's what we got through in this conversation. I like, darted us around.

[00:50:29] Nikki: I love it. I love it. Okay. I have a, I have an ebook that I'd love to gift to your audience. It's called closing the sale and it is about boosting your confidence. And frankly, it's got some language suggestions kind of in those last three steps of the selling staircase. We talked about discovery proposal close.

[00:50:45] Okay. So it, uh, you can grab it for free. It's my gift to you. Get it by going to your salesmaven. com forward slash slays. So this is for your audience and then we'll be connected. And if you are open to checking out another podcast, I have my own podcast. It's called salesmaven and I give lots of tips and strategies and techniques on that podcast.

[00:51:07] So check it out.

[00:51:09] Lauryn: I love that. And we'll have that link below in the show notes as well. Uh, she says, I hope that you really loved this episode as much as I did. Um, I want to keep this conversation going. I love talking about sales. We need more successful, happy chiropractors because it is such a cool profession, um, that has.

[00:51:28] An impact. You know, I feel like anytime we talk about sales, it's like people get all like icky and it's like, no, no, no, we're not selling something people don't need. Like this is life changing things. So I want to keep the conversation going. If you're not subscribed to our newsletter, make sure you do that.

[00:51:42] We send out weekly fun, little stories and tips and things like that. So Nikki, thank you so much again for your time. Um, this was great.

[00:51:53] Nikki: Thank you for having me.

[00:51:54] Lauryn: and you have a new list or I'll go listen to your podcast too.

[00:51:56] Nikki: Thank you.

[00:51:57] Lauryn: all right. She slayers until next week. Bye.