Hey there, everybody.

Welcome back to lead the team.

When the mission matters most, you want Nicole Robinson leading the team.

With more than 20 years leading at the highest levels of the satellite and defense industries, including roles at General Dynamics, SES and comtech, Nicole serves as President and CEO of Datapath, Inc.

Home to the world's largest fleet of defense certified satellite terminal systems.

Now, if you're not familiar with what that is, well, imagine you're in the middle of nowhere, maybe a desert, a jungle, or even a ship in the middle of the ocean, and you still need to talk to other people, send messages, use the Internet, or even control drones and cameras.

Well, y'all, maybe there's no cell phone tower, there's no wi fi signals around.

And that's where her awesome company comes in.

She's a champion for the military, a fierce advocate for STEM and women in space tech, and a proud mother of three, Nicole's leadership is.

Is shaping the future of global communications and inspiring the next generation to reach even higher.

And today, she shares the lessons, mindset, and bold moves that fueled her extraordinary journey.

Nicole, welcome to lead the team.

Thank you.

Appreciate it, Ben.

So excited to have you here.

Let's kick this off talking about your career.

So you have spent your entire career in defense and in aerospace and in particular around the satellite and space domain.

What set you on that path from the very beginning?

Yeah, well, it's an interesting question, because the answer is it was a total accident.

I'd like to tell you it was by design that I chose satellite and space, but in fact, I knew very little about it.

When I.

When I came out of undergraduate, I was working for the U.S.

army center of Military History, doing some marketing, helping to support the fundraising for the National Museum of the United States army.

And really, through that experience, became very connected to those who are serving in uniform and supporting others.

When I went on to General Dynamics, it was more of a joint environment.

So soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, guardsmen, just really supporting all the services.

And knew that while I wasn't personally called to serve in uniform, I knew I wanted to support that community in whatever capacity I could.

So was recruited into satellite and space in about the 2007 timeline and ended up just absolutely falling in love with the industry, the technology, the varied ways that we support our US and allied end users as they go forward and do the important work that they do every day.

So by total accident, but I couldn't be more thankful for that accident.

Well, and to think about this, I mean, 20 years in this, in this industry, it's so incredible how it's changed.

I mean satellites used to be, I mean that's like, I remember the satellite dish in my grandparents yard that was the size of like an automobile.

And it would, that would be like how they would get TV in, in rural Alabama.

And it's changed a little bit since then.

Yes.

Oh, no question.

I mean, what a ride.

Why like, was there a point where you're like, you know what this is?

Get like, this is not for me.

It's, it's like too fast, there's too much tech coming in.

It's.

I mean you seem like it's changed so much or did, did it get more exciting as time went on?

And the, and the technology.

Well that's, that's what's so thrilling about it is that it is evolving.

It's not a, you know, static or stagnated type of technology or business.

We think about 20 years as a reference point.

The historical satellite communications community was based upon infrastructure.

Satellites that are launched into orbit that would last almost 20 years.

So the ground infrastructure, those giant dishes that you're talking about, I mean they were in keeping with the space segment.

Now you've got of course, the launch of the lower Earth orbiting satellites like the Starlink by Elon Musk.

And now soon we'll have the Amazon constellation called Kuiper that's launching ses has a constellation at a lower orbit.

What that means these smaller satellites flying closer to the Earth, they're only lasting about three or four years each.

So everything related to them, the modem technology, the terminals that are either on the move or fixed, they're evolving much more rapidly every three years now instead of every 20.

So it's a different industry, it's a different sense of scrappiness that's required as well.

Was there a moment when you decided to go all in on it?

Yes, yes, I would say early stages at ses kind of working with the US government end users and having very close connection with how they were leveraging at that time, our satellite communications technology in very specific ways to save time, money and lives.

I knew this is something that's material.

Yes.

It's a business, of course, it's not a philanthropic pursuit.

You've got a P and L to worry about at the end of the.

But it is the kind of work that gets you up every morning and you know what you're doing matters to human life and that makes all the difference in the world.

Can you, can you share a time where the satellite technology did like I'm sure saving lives every day.

But was there one specifically memorable.

Many examples, but one that immediately comes to mind when you say that when it comes to geospatial satellites.

So Earth imaging providing that data of what is changing on Earth at any given location at any given time, in the early days and weeks of the conflict in Ukraine, let's call it what it is, the war in Ukraine, where we had troops on the ground, you had innocent lives that needed to evacuate, needed to be in a safe environment.

It was an uncertain time.

No one was quite sure what was unfolding.

Having access to the satellite imagery was allowing those individuals to determine where, where's the safest path, path for exit for those innocent.

So the satellite imagery could tell them things like, there's roadway damage in this particular direction, don't evacuate in that direction.

Let's take these families, these, these individuals who need to be removed from harm and set them on a path that's going to allow them to do exactly that.

It's just, I mean, it gives me goosebumps still to talk about it and just know that satellite capability was involved in such a critical role at such a critical time and really helping to get those to safety.

Wow.

The fact that that even exists.

So it's like real time information like, don't take this road, take that road because this bridge is destroyed.

And you're able to communicate that through your technology to the people on the ground so they can find a safe exit.

Yeah, that's right.

Well, how in the world do you live with, live with all that going on?

Because you mentioned you've got three kids, you're like, you know, you've got your personal life.

How do you deal with the fact that your technology is being relied upon for that kind of situation for thousands of people.

Yeah, it's a lot.

No small thing, for sure.

It's a juggling act, you know, trying to, trying to balance the personal aspect of life.

Of course, my, my husband and children are everything to me.

They understand that the work that we're doing, they know it's important and it's a, it's a passion and it's good for, it's good for the world.

So there's that support there.

Their support is unwavering.

It's incredible.

And also the dynamic of having just an amazing company at Data Path, the personnel here, a variety of individuals have been here for 25, in some cases 29 years.

Next year will be our 30th anniversary and it's incredible.

And it's because of that mission.

It's because the passion they have to support this community with the technology that we have.

So it's the very core of what we do and who we are.

So you're at a.

I'm not.

I don't let your kids play soccer.

They might play soccer.

They've got a soccer game.

You're at the grocery store and they're like, nicole, our satellites are providing evacuation or else for war refugees.

What in the world is that like getting that?

A call like that and you're out trying to be present with your family.

Are you.

Have you become like a ninja of compartmentalization?

And this is going to lead.

Yeah, lead into the worst leadership advice potentially.

And how you think about a worst leadership advice that you've heard.

I think you've got an interesting philosophy on that.

So I'm wondering how it all kind of ties together.

Yes, it actually does.

The worst leadership advice I've heard is that if it's business, it's not personal.

And it's interesting because you probably heard that.

I mean, that's a.

That's a phrase that's commonly used.

Oh, it's not personal, it's business.

But what's really fascinating about that, if that's true, we're not truly bringing our full, genuine self to what we're doing.

It's when you make it personal.

It's when you tether the work that you're doing to a greater purpose, to something that's about more than just yourself.

It's about some other beneficiary of the work that you're doing.

That's when I think you're going to be most effective.

So that means bringing your whole self.

In fact, there was kind of interesting is.

It's a tangent, but there was a Harvard Business Review that studied cubicles and the difference between someone who had their cubicle design that was just neat and tidy and nothing in there that kind of tethered to their favorite sports or anything else and their performance and their output and their.

The time that they would.

They would dedicate to the business versus a cubicle that's filled with bobbleheads, you know, a favorite sports team, pictures of the family.

And they're bringing a personal connection to what they're doing.

It matters to them the same as, you know, other things matter to them in their lives.

And they show that the output and the contributions that individual is making were greater when they brought their whole self and their whole value forward.

So it's not to say that you should sacrifice one for the other.

But to show up as your most genuine, complete version of yourself, it requires you to connect both business and, and your personal drive behind it.

Love that.

The power and that.

And that cubicle example definitely says a lot.

For the longest time I was in the category of hey, my just keeping work and personal completely separate.

And the more that I brought my personal self a little bit more and shared more about that, it made life and it made work so much better.

Yeah.

More relatable in an industry.

Kind of going back to the, the lead up question that I asked and I asked another question, but the lead up question of okay, on one hand that's great in your industry, but in another, there's a lot of heavy stuff going on at work and do you choose to sort of leave?

Are you able to compartmentalize that so you can when you're with your family or does it sort of show up at home?

And I mean, do you have these conversations to some degree like do they know or do you try to keep it separate?

I have an answer to that and they probably have a different answer to that.

Yeah, I'm sure.

I'm sure.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I suspect, by the way, I'm asking you specifically because I think all leaders struggle with this, this decision and how they manage it.

But you happen to be in an industry where there's a lot of going things going on with human life around the world.

Yeah.

You know, so I, it's, it's a, it's a great question and I'd love to tell you I'm just hitting it out of the park and just doing it perfectly.

There's 100% chance I'm not doing it 100%.

Right.

So just a caveat there.

But you know, the effort is there.

I mean, it is, it's important to be, you know, transparent on both sides.

Say here's who I am when it comes to work and then at home.

Here's what's important to me at work and make sure that it's something we can talk about, but in terms of the time spent, it, it is an evolution.

It's something that I don't know that, you know, you ever achieve 100% perfection on it.

You're just always trying to be intentional with your, with your time, whether it's with your spouse or your children.

And when you're there not having your, you know, your device in your hand and you're constantly ready, even just keeping it off the table, you know, or out of arm's reach when, when the Kids are around I think is particularly important or even on a vacation.

More recently my, my kids were on their spring break and so we went to the beach together.

You're the same beach.

We've gone there for year after year after year.

And for the first time my daughter asked me questions.

She said, are you actually not going to work this time?

And I thought, oh, okay, I hear you.

Well, I said I will, I will do my very best.

If there's something urgent I might have to, you know, ask that step away, but I'll give you all of my time.

And I think that's, that's, that's important.

And having her ask that question.

Yeah.

How, how old is she?

Is she a teenager at this point or she's 10.

She's 10.

Okay.

So she's getting to the age where when they're early on they don't necessarily recognize it as much but now they have more of an awareness.

Yeah, yeah.

Of what's going on.

Yeah.

That's really interesting and I guess congratulations to you for having that open line of communication where she's going to say that or like that's okay to even ask the question.

And did you feel more pressure at that point to stay disciplined?

Okay.

Yeah, I would too.

Oh yeah.

If the question was in my head, you know, all week.

Like, okay, I'm not gonna look at it right now.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's great.

And like I don't know if your kid, how much technology your kids have, but I, I have a 14 year old daughter and I think about she's going to emulate even unconsciously what I'm doing.

So if I'm on my phone with her at the beach, she's going to probably say well, okay, you know, when I go to the beach with my friends or the family, it's okay to be connected the whole time.

It's a great point.

You know, trying to, trying to think through that.

It helps me be a little more disciplined, but not 100.

Yes, that's great.

Well, well, let's dig into and I could spend a lot more time on that but I want to make sure we dig into to a lot about leadership skills and the evolution and stem.

Because I know you're a big STEM advocate and the, it's funny, think about the 20 years sort of timetable that, that we've been reflecting on here and knowing that I suspect I don't put words your mouth but it's going, the change over 20 years now is going to happen like in a year or two in Terms of the speed of change.

Yes.

And what are the leadership skills that we need today based on your understanding of technology and where the satellite and defense industry is now?

And then where, where are things headed for the next 20?

I think it's, it's a really timely question because the leadership principles of yesteryear and what has, what it has taken to get us to this place today is not going to be what drives us to the next chapter in industry.

And I think there's a number of different factors to that.

We've got, you know, AI that is rapidly emerging across the different technology set, certainly in satellite and space.

That's, you know, AI is playing a much more prominent role.

That's a big shift from what we've, we've experienced the last 20 years.

The pace of changes you, as you reflected on being able to iterate and respond and evolve the technology at a much more rapid clip than before.

There's new talent that's available.

Given some of the new trades that have emerged and the use of data has emerged, I think there's more of a drive towards having a sense of meaning and purpose in your work as well.

You know, connecting more to the individuals at the end use of your technology rather than, you know, you put a product on the shelf and just push it out to market and how it's deployed or used or the response from customers is maybe not as measured as the expectation is today.

Globalization is another element.

You know, we're much more connected world than ever before culturally that, that has a huge impact on leadership, our awareness, the things that we need to be in position to do.

So I'd say in terms of reflecting on a more precise evolution of a leader, what did we see 20 years ago?

What are we seeing now?

Think of an individual leader where in, in the past it's been directing and delegating and commanding in terms of, you know, the person out in front.

And now we're seeing more of a culture of influence.

So you're, you're leading by example and it's actually your example that is inspiring others to behave a certain way, to operate with a certain momentum or work ethic.

And it's not necessarily because you're being directed to, you are inspired to.

It's a different dynamic than I think we've seen before.

I think 20 years ago or even 10 years ago.

This notion of conforming to leadership and conforming to convention is something that was a particularly bold sentiment in the defense industry.

Now we're seeing a shift to more of challenging convention Respectfully to say, had you thought about it this way or is there a more efficient way that we could do this and being comfortable in doing that and that, you know, when we talk about that pace of change, the way we have to continue to evolve our technology, being cognizant of the end user needs, that's going to take some challenge and it's going to take us as leaders to be comfortable with that, to be comfortable that we, we might not have it completely.

Right.

There might be another way to approach a challenge.

So anyway, I, I do think that there, the technology is evolving rapidly because of pace of change, globalization, AI, all these things.

That now means the leader has to change as well.

Yes.

And probably change at a faster rate.

Darn it.

Which means you can stay on top of all this business.

I got a lot of questions around that.

So many good little loops that opened up for me there.

One is you're in the business of, of high, highly technical stuff.

Like I'm a, and I hate to say stuff, but like, like engineers, IT stuff.

People have to be in the weeds on all the details to make this technology work.

And then you said, you got to connect them more now to the end user of this.

Do you have an example where maybe someone was, you don't have to name names, but like was, hey, really in the weeds or they, they were frustrated and then you were able to make that connection and what, and what happened for them in that process?

Yes, I think, you know, you kind of winked at it there.

In terms of connecting to the person, the purpose and the, the meaning behind your work.

Sometimes it's harder to do depending on where you find yourself in the business.

And maybe one example, if we think back on that, that conflict in Ukraine where we were talking earlier about the role that satellites played in giving intelligence on what was moving on the ground, what was taking place, where would it be a safe place to go?

We had a particular GIS analyst.

So it's someone who writes algorithms.

They write codes to train the imagery to run through a certain program and understand what is taking place, what's the intelligence behind the imagery?

And so this individual, we were putting a lot of pressure on them.

It was the early days of the conflict.

It was, you know, within 24 hours.

We need this new algo.

We need to be able to rapidly analyze this imagery and produce a result so we can get it to the folks on the ground.

Well, the way that we relate it to that individual was we need this algo in 24 hours.

Needs to be able to do X, that individual had absolutely no idea why they were doing that and why did it matter?

And so you felt that, you felt a little bit of the, you know, the bucking to say 24 hours, you know, I gotta have a break here.

I can't just work through the night.

And so finally when we paused and explained, let us share why this is going to be impactful and who you're going to touch with this algorithm.

And when we got to a place where we were talking about, you know, the families that would be saved from all of the activity that was happening in Ukraine at the time because they would have the intelligence of what had changed in an area based upon that satellite imagery.

It was like, absolutely, put me in coach.

This is exactly what I want to do.

And now, now we got a level of passion and conviction behind it because they understood it connected to a human being, a human life.

And that I think can take something from theoretical and technological and put it into the hands of something very human, which is powerful.

A great example for all leaders to be thinking about.

Even if you don't have a life saving technology, you see it, but find ways to connect people.

Because I think with right now, with data, it's so easy to get disconnected because it's so easy to review it.

There's so much more data to look at.

You start evaluating the mission on a spreadsheet and that's just not motivating ultimately.

Unless maybe you have a sales team.

But sometimes they get excited about it.

But like people on the people that work in the details, it's so important to find that reason help helps connect them.

I really like that.

I think that's a, that's something that is going to be an evolving leadership skill too, is that the leaders can truly communicate that in a space like yours, where there's probably a lot of innovation going on.

What's a.

What's when someone on your team or employee has a big idea?

What's an effective way to get that idea communicated to the C suite when there might be a lot of layers to ultimately get through?

Yes.

Kind of speaks to the evolution of a leader as well.

Where it was shifting from a place of being very hierarchical to now a place where it's more of a collaborative team environment.

And so when I think when there's someone in the organization that has an aha moment or they've got a great idea, or they have an idea they want to test and they want to get visibility to those that are in position to make decision in terms of funding an idea or, you know, however giving it some legs to run.

I think it's very important to be comfortable with a failure.

If your idea fails from, you know, from a technical perspective or even fails to make the business case and being okay with that, being okay with, with hearing criticism by way of a lot of questions to say, well, how does that work and why should we do this and what, what would be, what would we pause in order to take on this effort?

So I'd say first be open to question.

You know, of course be bold and bring your ideas forward, but be open to question and criticism.

That's how some of the best ideas come forward.

You refine them through those questions.

And then I think another important element is as it isn't a philanthropic organization business, traditionally you have a P and L to manage.

You have to worry about the bottom line.

Do your best to connect that great idea, that new technology or iteration to the bottom line for the company.

How.

And that's the fastest way to get the attention and support for it to say, listen, we're operating this way.

I think I've got this new idea for a service that can help us to speed up and that would yield faster delivery to customers and we're able to invoice faster and quicker access to cash on hand.

Okay, we'll look at that.

So tether it to the business results.

What's in the best interest for the business?

And I think you're more likely to get visibility and true eyes on your idea.

Wow.

A good reminder that the bottom line is the universal language.

That's right.

It reaches everybody, it brings, it unifies the, unifies the organization.

Is there an idea that comes to mind that maybe didn't have that at the beginning, but after a while kind of found its way because it did get to the bottom line or think more about the end customer net.

Yeah, we've got a really dynamic product team here at Datapath and one particular individual was very forward leaning.

As we're going from just having satellites at one particular orbit to now lower orbits closer to the earth.

The technology from a terminal perspective, what's speaking to the satellite in space, that's evolving much more rapidly too.

So everyone's trying to build their next great antenna, you know, that's going to speak to those lower orbits.

And he came forward with this idea to say it's wonderful to have a large R D budget to build and design and build an entirely new antenna system.

But what if we could take all of those fielded terminals we have had for the past 30 years supporting our DoD customers.

And we created an uptier kit to take that existing fielding technology and put it up to new capabilities on these new orbits.

So faster speed to market, actually less funding into R&D versus building an entirely new system and really got the attention from our customers.

So it's a perfect example of, you know, sometimes for those with highly technical minds and skills, they love the technology so much they can lose the connection to either the end user or the bottom line.

In this case, artfully was able to manage both technology to those end users faster and they're in a critical place of serving and it's actually high impact to the bottom line because the R and D is less expensive than designing an entirely new system.

So he got, he got the magic combination exactly right on that one.

It was a great example.

Well, and that's someone that understands the bottom line.

Yes.

Yeah, they're able to have that bigger picture that, that's really.

He's heard no many times.

So he finally was like, aha.

I got, I got the keys to the kingdom.

Now I know how to do this.

And they are resilient, whoever this person is.

Yes, they kept going.

Persistent and resilient.

Yeah, we know that we don't have a ton of time left, but I know in your business, so you're, you're in a technical field and you're in really thinking about defense and these things.

But a lot of your success, I'm guessing is on your communication skills because you've got to communicate.

One, you're, you're communicating to the front line on your team.

What's happening in the end, like with your customers or your people.

You're helping to help give them purpose.

But you're looking at deals, huge deals like with the government and, and maybe other organizations.

What are your like a couple of maybe communication success keys to taking a technical field and making it relevant to people who are going to do a big contract because they may not understand everything that you're capable of, what you're doing.

You've got to be able to boil this down in a way that communicates value.

So I'm just, I'm just curious if you have any strategies that you do when you're making a presentation or a proposal.

Yes.

I would say it's, it's helpful in business, but it's, it's served me well in my personal relationships as well.

And that is when, when you're in a conversation trying your best to get out of your own head and get into the head of your recipient.

So understand, you know what, what's important to them, what is driving their behavior, what is driving their response or their question to you and speak to that.

It's.

I think it's very easy to be a bit of a self licking ice cream cone and just kind of focus on what, what's going on with you.

But if you kind of get out of your own head and really think about your recipient, think about the problem person that's receiving your message and understand what it is that they, what's driving their behavior or that's important to them.

It can just, it can really lead to a much more effective exchange.

And it's.

I found that to be super helpful.

Reminds me of one of the seven habits.

Seek to understand.

Yes, understood.

What do you do to understand the other person or what's your, how do you, how do you go about approaching that?

Just like you're doing, you're asking questions.

That's why Nicole needs a podcast right there.

I'm coming for you, man.

Come for your job.

Oh, you would take me down in a heartbeat on this Nicole show.

I think it's really good because leaders, you know, you're in a technical field, you probably have a lot of knowledge to bestow upon others.

But you're like, no, no, I want to understand what you're thinking first.

And then it allows you to really tweak your communication to, to be more effective.

Yeah.

So as we start to wrap up here, what, what are your three success strategies that you'd recommend for people to either prepare for in their career or, or at work or even thinking about the earlier generations or the, or the younger generations in terms of what they need to be thinking about when as they go through school and get ready to be the next great minds for AI and data and satellites.

Let's see.

I would say first, to bring your whole genuine self.

No one needs you to act or be anyone other than you.

You know, what you have is important to contribute.

Let's bring your whole genuine self and your purpose behind your work and that's going to make you most effective when you have a conviction and you're bringing, you're bringing your true values to it.

Second, I'd say, you know, put your hand up, lean forward and take on new opportunities.

You know, if it's about expanding beyond what you're.

Just because you've always done it a certain way, that doesn't mean you can't extend yourself and take on a new challenge.

Get a little comfortable with being uncomfortable I think that's a great way to grow and evolve and maybe find yourself in a place that you'd never envisioned before.

And I think that's very exciting.

And third, I'd say, you know, for certain industries and technologies that have been operating along a certain way for so many years, as we find in satellite and space, it doesn't have to always be the case.

It can be reinvented.

And it takes those first two things, individuals bringing their own genuine self, being willing to lean forward and push, challenge the paradigm of yesteryear into new spaces.

And really, I think it's, you know, for our for our world, for our legacy, it's going to be really important to see that we keep pushing and driving that change.

Been a fun one today.

Nicole, thanks for coming on Lead the team.

Thank you.

It's been a joy.