00:05 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

This is the Photo Business Help podcast, a resource for photographers of all levels, from brand new to burnt out, who believe that business growth starts with personal growth. I'm your host, natalie Jennings. I created Jennings Photo back in 2010 and have been happily full time since, but not without some mistakes along the way. Those lessons, plus what's really helped me thrive financially and personally, are what I want to share with you so you can grow with your photo business, too. You'll also hear stories from other photographers and industry folks, as well as my favorite ways to be more mindful and happier on this journey. Hi, I am jumping in here to let you know that this week's episodes are replays, stories of shows that were wildly popular in the past, and have some really great information for you. Before we dive into today's episode, here are a few words from folks that support photo business help. Well, yeah, I'm really glad that we're able to do this. You're in Australia, so we're in very different time zones.

01:30 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

Yes, different time zones and very different climates.

01:34 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Very different climates. I've been to Australia once and it was awesome, but right now I look out my window in Minneapolis and it's snowing.

01:43 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

Well, to be fair, it should be beautiful summer's day here today, and it's not quite, but still it's not cold, so I can't complain at all.

01:50 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Is it morning for you? It's like 3.30 for me.

01:52 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

Yeah, so at the moment it's 8.30 in the morning, but I'm in the future. I'm a day ahead of you. You're Friday. I'm on Friday already. Yeah, my week's nearly over.

02:04 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

I went to university in Hawaii and I did a summer program teaching in Japan and it's such a trip when you cross the international date line and come back home because you get a full day. I think I left on a Sunday morning and I got home on a Sunday morning. I was like this is wild.

02:24 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

It's strange. We lived in Canada for eight years and when we'd come, my husband and I both from Australia, so we'd come back to Australia quite often. It was always weird you'd lose a day, gain a day. Lose a day, gain a day, depending which way you were going. Yeah, Cool.

02:39 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Well, I feel like maybe just letting people know a little bit about what you do and we can go from there. I have everything. I've been just reading through all of it because it's so beautiful and fun, but the Strategy Studio is what you do, so tell me a little bit about that.

02:53 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

Yes, thank you, I'd love to. I'm a marketing strategist and copywriter and what my passion is it's about helping service-based businesses communicate their value so they can show up in their marketing with confidence and on their website whatever that might look like and feel confident enough to charge what they're worth, because I feel like our businesses are only enjoyable and satisfying. It's not always about the money, but we have to be compensated for all of this energy and passion that we're putting into our businesses. I think that when we can communicate our value, we're able to do that. That's my wheelhouse playing in the marketing strategy and wordsmithing space.

03:28 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

I love wordsmithing. That's wonderful, but we talk about it a lot on the show, removing resentment from your work. When you can show up to something, Even if it's as a photographer like an awful gig, if you're getting compensated well, it doesn't feel as icky, and I think that that's huge. I'm really interested, though, because something that we haven't talked a lot about on the show, maybe a little bit here and there is copywriting, wordsmithing, all the stuff that you do. I have never hired a copywriter. I have an English degree, creative writing and all that stuff. I guess I've just always been like I'll do it.

04:01 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

It comes easily.

04:02 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

I don't even know if I'm skilled in it. I'm curious, just sort of like a baseline place to start, what do copywriters bring to the table? I guess this is a weird phrase, but that someone that feels like they're a decent writer, like myself, doesn't, or what sorts of things? Do you notice that you're like, oh my gosh, people always do this or never do this, that kind of thing.

04:23 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

Yeah, that's such a great question. The biggest thing a copywriter brings is objectivity, because I often say, even copywriters can't write their own websites. When you're in your business, even though you might be a really great communicator, you're so in tune with what you do that sometimes you don't know what you don't know. If that makes sense, like you don't know what other people don't know, maybe is a better way to put it. Yes, sometimes you're just so good at it that you don't realize what those gaps are. You think that you're communicating your value really effectively, but someone from the outside looking in might still have a lot of questions. I often find that's what a copywriter can bring to the table. They can ask those extra questions to flesh out your value even more.

05:04

I think when we do our own copy which is amazing when we feel confident doing that and I'm the biggest advocate for I always say give your website a go and let me fill in the gaps for you. Don't feel like you just have to hand it over from the beginning. That's cool. Yeah, I think often the gaps and those deeper questions that a copywriter can dig into is just going to take your website or your marketing copy in general, whatever it is to that next level, the value that you have is communicated as effectively as it needs to be. Sometimes we do our own sales a disservice, I think.

05:32 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, audrey and I just recorded yesterday one of our phototherapy episodes and we were talking about this exact idea of communication having what feels to the business owner over communication. But really you're in your business all the time, you know exactly how it works. You get what you're offering on some weird level in your brain, but when you really start to look at what people are receiving when they first email you, there are a lot of gaps. I guess combining that with the ability to be a great writer is probably helpful for everybody.

06:05 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

Yeah, I always say that repetition is your friend. When we're writing our own copy, we get nervous that we're repeating ourselves. We're like I said that before, or I said that, even if it's just in your social media. Oh, I wrote that in a caption last week. But I think what we forget is we get tired of hearing ourselves speak but no one else is listening to us as much as we're listening to ourselves, and we always quit the message. I mean, we as business owners, we quit the message when we get tired of it. But that's usually the point that our audience is just starting to cotton on to what our message is.

06:35 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yes, they have to see it a bajillion times. A bajillion, yeah. I liken it to a set list that a musician has. I mean, when you go to a show, you're like my favorite song. This is awesome, and they've played it like a million times.

06:48 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

That's the best analogy. It's exactly that, yeah.

06:51 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, that's really cool. I can super appreciate that. So let's take it to photography, just because, yeah, that's most of our that's the place of our. The interesting thing about photography is that people can communicate a great deal with just their imagery, obviously. So you know there's only a few industries I think that can really do that. Have you worked with a lot of photographers and Do?

07:12

you notice anything when you're just kind of scanning around and looking at their websites, that maybe, if someone's listening, maybe we could give a tip or two to photographers. That's easy and accessible and useful 100%.

07:24 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

I think that, if I can just give an example, so recently we were organizing a family photo session with our extended family and it was my mother-in-law who was she kind of. It was her project and I've worked with lots of photographers and I was trying really hard just to kind of take a step back and let it be her decision. But what I found, and what was actually really interesting market research in a way was to watch someone that's not necessarily in the creative space or working with creatives, to see how she assigned value to what she was looking at. And as a creative, I could look at a website and I could see whether it was the amount of editing work, or I could see how well-composed an image was, or I could see how challenging the light must have been in the situation that that photo was taken, or I could see that there was 15 people in that photo and what photographer wants to do a family photo with 15 people, like I could see the challenges exactly and that's what we were wanting a photographer to do. So I guess me being in the creative space, I could see all of that which is unspoken, right. We as a photographer, you know all those things.

08:30

They're so obvious and I think it's so easy to forget that the person looking at our image, at our imagery, just sees a lovely image. They don't understand what went into making that lovely. In their mind, they pushed a button and that's, I think, the challenge of photography. It obviously does very much depend to your ideal client is and the space that you're working in. If you're working in editorial, for example, and you're working with lots of other creatives, there is a lot of that that can be communicated through one image. But comparatively, if you work in the family photo space or even in the wedding industry, as another example, you sometimes are having people as a one-time transaction and a photography investment for them is like you know, literally once or maybe three times in their life they really invest that significant amount of money into having this experience. So they see the picture and think it's beautiful, but they don't understand why that the experience of getting that photo should cost them hundreds or thousands of dollars Because to them you pushed a button.

09:33 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yes, you're singing to my photographer's heart here, because it is. It's something that is so hard to explain to people I was also just talking to Audrey about. So my mini sessions, for example family photography, are 15 minutes. You get 10 photos. I usually end up with 40 or so that I edit and then they still get to just choose the 10. But it's taken me almost 13 years to get to a point where kind of no matter the mood of everyone, no matter the weather for the most part, unless it's raining I can get a bunch of really great photos in 15 minutes.

10:07 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

But look at the years of experience that it took to get to that point. Yes, and that's the part we need to communicate.

10:13 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

I'm like thinking about my website going. I don't know if I really do that that well, but it's hard to communicate that really without, I think, finding the language for that is still kind of challenging. Like hey, by the way, the reason you're paying this much is because you know so that's where I think our marketing comes into play.

10:32 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

It's not necessarily always the job of our website to do the heavy lifting. So I like to say our obviously website is a part of your marketing. But I kind of look at social media as like the ecosystem that gets people to your website and it's your website's job to convert them once they've got there. So, rather than saying it's your website's job to find your clients, obviously, seo can help with that in a big way, but I don't think we can put all of that responsibility on our website. I think we need to share the load with our marketing.

11:02

So Reels, for example, using Instagram or using social media in general, that's where we can show the behind the scenes. That probably sometimes feels a bit too messy to want to have on our beautifully professionally polished websites. But if we know we're using our broader marketing ecosystem to expose people to the experience of working with us, by the time they get to our website, they're all in. They've seen the reel of the chaos of the family photo session, yet the cover image or the final shot, which is just this beautiful picture that you want on your wall for eternity. So I think we need to think about how we can use our marketing to show the messy middle and use our website to show the finished product.

11:43 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

That's a really, really great way to think about it. I hadn't ever thought about it that way before. But one thing I really love about Reels, like my Jennings photo account in particular, is I kind of show me in the reels my dog, my, whatever I'm up to, you know, like weird stuff, just like comedy whatever.

12:01 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

But they get to know the person behind the lens as well, and that's valuable, especially when in photography it's like it's an intimate connection you need to have with your photographer.

12:10

Like, you need to trust them, you need to feel comfortable with them. And I often find it doesn't not necessarily photography, but in general any service that I'm going into that I need to have engagement with the service provider quite closely, like if I go to the social media feed and I can't see their face or I can't hear their voice and I don't necessarily mean that in an audio sense, but like here and feel it through their content I won't make that inquiry because there's something in me that feels a bit hesitant, like all. Can I trust you? And you probably thinking how is showing reels of me and my dog helping people trust me? And it's not so much about that one time encounter, it's the multiple encounters that they can have with us from marketing that let's them get to know, like and trust us, that then, when they get to the point of finally hitting a website, it's a no brainer to hit that inquire now, book a call, whatever that call to action is.

13:02 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, I love that. As far as instagram goes, at least you can keep a beautiful feed if you want. You know, I like to just do my post, my work, and then you can really engage with your audience, so I think that's Super cool. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure which way you want to take this. If it's like a another like Definitely think about this and do this, or like a please avoid this kind of thing. But what's? What's another maybe tip that you could offer people that are listening?

13:27 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

I always think to make the ask. I call it because so often we play the polite card and we're like here's my beautiful work, here's my creativity, here's my soul in a bunch of images on the screen. I hope you love it enough to work with me. If that's not enough, it's never enough, and we need to stop being so careful and polite and actually tell people what we want them to do. What is that process of working with you like? Do you want them to book an inquiry call? Can they instantly open up a calendar and book a family photo session with you? What do you want the person visiting your website to have to do to work with you? So don't hope that they'll click through all the buttons and eventually find the contact form that tells them what has to happen. Remove all of those obstacles. It's not pushy to help someone connect with you. That's never pushy.

14:14

And so many websites that I will go into review, especially people in the creative space. They're trying too hard to let their creativity do the talking. And again, it depends on your ideal client. To a particular type of client that will work, but to most clients you need to lay it out and ABC. One, two, three. This is what you do next. This is the process of working with me in three to five steps. I know there's a thousand steps that go into it, but for the client we're trying to communicate with, to have this initial interaction, we need to make it feel like a one, two, three. And that's, I think, what Every creative struggles with. To. How do I break down this really in depth creative in my head process into a Make an inquiry, will have a phone call. Together will lock in your session date. You receive a hundred beautiful images of Enter, whatever the occasion was here yeah, I mean, setting expectations is such a good reminder.

15:13 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

I mean, really, if, if you're listening to your clients know what to expect honestly, like, how long are you gonna be there? How long will it take to get their images back to they, get to prove, for they just gonna get a bunch of whatever kind of like. I have a teaching background and One of the most useful things I learned was, whether I was teaching in a classroom or later on speaking at an event or something was like this is what we're gonna do today, this is what's gonna happen. So people aren't sitting there kind of like, let's say, your opening is a little dry or boring. They know that.

15:46 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

Oh, in ten minutes we'll probably get into the the group chat or something you know yeah, and I think that's where, like, even something as simple as the FAQs can be really helpful. And to me, faqs that aren't just a drop down on your contact page. To me, your FAQs a multiple posts in your marketing content. They might even be like a lead gen that you have in your website, like it could be ten things to know about working with a family photographer and they download it and all of those things. They might not even be thinking they don't know what they don't know, but they're like I don't actually know what happens in a family photo session, so let me download this and find out.

16:22

Yeah, all of those things that you get frustrated about and you're like why don't people know this? Or I just wish that people knew that editing their family photo session isn't something that I do when I get home and deliver the images the next day, like those kind of frustrations. We can communicate that and I always say to my clients Don't get frustrated with a client for something you didn't communicate.

16:46 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, we've talked about that a lot and I think that's a great reminder and that redundancy and repetition. It feels again like you're on tour as a musician or something, because you're just Every day, yeah, but for someone it's new every single day. One of the things I had trouble with this year with my mini session early in the year my mini session email when the photos were finished and then they got to choose their ten and if they wanted more they could buy more Was people not reading the thing and just getting confused, and so I was like, oh, I'm not, there's something I'm not doing right here. And the quick fix that has Worked was just to say please read everything carefully right away and kind of break it up a little bit more. So it wasn't like long run on sentences, but really just telling them like please do this Thing, and it helped it does.

17:41 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

I get caught up when we have these conversations like I don't want you to be listening to this thinking about like, oh cool, you're writing more work to my workload. What I say is find any opportunity you can to automate it. So let's say that you do the family photo session or you shoot the wedding, or you do the editorial, whatever type of photography you do this, generally speaking, a bit of a flow of events that happens after the booking. So can you have templates that are like Hi, family, it was so lovely to shoot with you today. Just wanted to let you know what you can expect over the next and to timeframe here and give them three to five dot points of. You'll get your gallery on this day. This is what has to happen next. If you want more print orders, this will be the timeline, just that. Just have it as a template in your Gmail. That's like an enter appropriate information here and you might be surprised how many emails that stops you receiving in your inbox.

18:34

Yeah, again, if you hate doing that kind of stuff, you can outsource it. Like often, when I'm writing an email nurture sequence for a client, they're like why are you there? I also have these automation emails I send that are clearly not communicating what I think they are. Can you tweak them for me 100%? When we're in our own businesses again like we were talking about earlier we often can't see what's missing. So getting a completely external person, even a friend, sometimes can do it for us to look at it and go oh, actually, what happens between that step and that step? Because I have questions.

19:07 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, in my coaching program I have a little exercise called like the boomer test, where it's like have like your baby boomer relative or friend or whatever, go on your website and just see if they can figure it out, Because a lot of that generation. A lot of that generation or older aren't seeing the sort of fire hose of stuff that we get every day and probably aren't interacting with it as much.

19:32 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

At least my folks aren't in there of that generation and so that's kind of like a fun one it is, and it's so funny you say that because obviously my parents and my in-laws of that generation too and we did find the amazing photographer. She did the family shoot. But what ended up happening was there was one family photo we liked but there was an inappropriate hand gesture from a young child and it was the one we wanted on the wall but it just wasn't quite right. And I said to my mother-in-law you know you could contact the photographer. And obviously I said, please offer to pay for her to do that photoshopping, because that's a bit of work. And of course she did it. There was no charge. And they got back this, you know, put two images together to remove the inappropriate hand gesture and they now have this gorgeous photo on their wall.

20:18

And it was funny that in retrospect I think that was the moment where she was like, oh, I see the value, and it's not that she did it when she got the image delivery, but it was that like one little extra gesture that made her go. Oh yeah, that wasn't something I could just do in an app on my phone. I was like, no, it is not. But I think those are all those little behind the scenes things that are helpful for people to know happen Again, probably not an FAQ, probably not something on your website, but a fun little inclusion in your socials to be like ever had this old damn it moment, look how we can fix it. And those all the. The accumulation of those lots of little moments is when people are like, oh yeah, that's a lot of work and makes them not get that sticker shock so much when they get our price list.

21:03 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, communicating the value I mean that's, and it's such a great reminder to have folks move away from having to have all of it perfectly on their website at least for me, as I'm listening to you like lowers the anxiety a little bit like oh I could do a little, a little real about it or something you know.

21:18

Yeah, I'm interested. We don't have tons of time, but this is like something we could probably talk about for a week. But I'm really interested along those lines, communicating value or just communication in general, if you have any thoughts on how photographers can utilize their email lists in a way that's not I don't know. I always feel like I don't have a ton to say as a photographer, like hey, I know you only need photos once a year. You know that kind of thing. It works really well for many sessions because people are like waiting for me to announce them. But if it's just a general photography account, so to speak, where you're just doing family photos and there's no special offer, do you have any tips for folks that are kind of like I don't get the whole email list thing?

22:04 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

Yeah, I love that you asked that, because I call it real world marketing. There's the ideal world where I could tell you everything that the textbooks, so to speak, you're going to say about this is how you should do email marketing. But then there's the real world of I'm one person with this much capacity. What is the best use of my time and energy? And I say that if you have clients that are typically going to be maybe once a year or even sometimes a one time transaction, rather than nurturing that, trying to nurture that list every week or every month, maybe your first point of investment in your email marketing is what would be called a nurture sequence.

22:39

So, rather than sending them one email a month over 12 months, when someone joins your list, they get an automated sequence of maybe six emails, or four to six that communicates the process of working with you and what it's like, and you might kind of outline some of those FAQs, you might share some of your favorite galleries, and they're all leading them to the point of making a booking or an inquiry call with you, whatever that next step is. So sometimes that is a great way. You obviously need to give them something onto the list, which could be like we talked about 10 things to know about planning your family photo session, but then it's not just that lead gen they're getting. They're then getting another four to six emails from you, and if they've gone on to six other photographers websites while they're looking for this family photographer, but you're the one that shows up in the inbox over the next month, who do you think they're going to make the inquiry to? If you're, if you're the only one that's adding value to this experience for them?

23:30 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, that response time and just being present in front of people is huge. And it goes back to your like automate as much as you can thing, you know because, they're just going out automatically.

23:41 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

Yeah, and on the other end of it, in terms of the ongoing nurturing of a list, if you do have the opportunity, like you were saying, to have them a repeat customer like, even if it is just the once a year booking that they would have, don't feel overwhelmed that you have to show up all the time in the inbox. We just need enough touch points that, when they get to the time of year that their brain says, book the photo session, our name is the one that's the top of their mind. That's what our job is. So I think, relieve the pressure of if I don't show up every month, I'm not doing it properly. That, to me, is an ideal world. If you can show up every month, that's amazing.

24:16

But if you can't, if you can show up at four distinct times a year in the inbox, that's still bringing value and sometimes that could be as basic as giving them tips for a. So maybe in November you send an email that's giving them tips for Christmas family photo sessions. Obviously you want them to book you, but the whole point is you give them five tips to do the cute family photo in front of the Christmas tree. They're going to be like that's adorable. That's too much work. Where do I book? Yeah, right, but sometimes if we can give them the tips, that makes it feel like we're bringing value. It's just a little reminder of, oh, I could do it myself. Oh, but it's that photographer that I also really love, her work on Instagram or wherever it might be. I'm just going to make that inquiry.

24:55

So, whether it's tips, sometimes it's as simple as showing up and sharing, like, four of your most favorite sessions that you've had recently, sure, or celebrating wins that you've had in your businesses, like, if you've got beautiful things to share, it doesn't feel salesy to show beauty right, or to show joy, or be okay with celebrating it and not thinking that. To me, marketing emails aren't there to sell things Like. There are sales sequences and there's a time and a place for that and they can do that. But in my mind, the value of a marketing email is just to keep your brand front of mind to a potential client so they continue that know, like and trust building experience with you.

25:40 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, that's cool. I was just reminded of a colleague of mine who's a family photographer and she has kiddos and one of the things she started adding I think it was like a monthly newsletter was just she had a little section that was like toys I like or clothes I like, or knowing that her audience were also parents, even though she is a photographer, it engaged them in other ways. If the rest of the year they knew they weren't going to be booking until November or whatever, they could look forward to useful information from her and get to know, like and trust her in like a different way. So that might be interesting for people to noodle over. Yeah.

26:14 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

And I also think about looking at who's in your circle of influence, so who else in your world has the potential to refer clients to you? So, like in the wedding industry, for example, it might be venues. So it could be as simple as doing a roundup of 10 of your favorite wedding venues in your local area. Yes, that's such a great way to bring value. But then they're like oh, I was looking at that venue and she's shot at that venue, or he's shot at that venue. Oh well, obviously that's who I want to make an inquiry with.

26:40 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, that's huge. Of course, as I'm doing these interviews, I'm like, oh, I'm so excited to go, like adjust my welcome sequence, whatever. I get excited about all this stuff that I want to keep improving, and for people that are listening that are like, oh my gosh, that just added, like you said, a million things to my list.

26:56

Take it a little bit of it at a time. I mean, my stuff is constantly evolving and getting better and you don't have to knock it out of the park and you won't knock it out of the park right out of the gate. So, wow, lots of weird like idiomatic phrases that I use.

27:09 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

But it's true, I'm a marketer and I don't do all of my marketing. Right and my favorite thought and I say this all the time don't feel overwhelmed by everything you can't do, feeling powered to do everything you can.

27:22 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Oh, that's nice, that's really nice. Well, one more question regarding what you do with the strategy studio. If someone listening, photographer or not, is a small business owner, that's like, oh my gosh, I need help and I do not want to write my stuff, or you know that really wants to work with you, for example, or someone like you. What can they expect with that process? Like what would be just a quick overview of what it's like to work with you.

27:44 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

Yeah, definitely. So I think my process is probably a little bit unique. I can't speak to how all copywriters do it, but my approach to copywriting is I do mine as what I call done in a day bookings. So for me that came about from that frustration of wanting to work with a service provider and everything turning into this drawn out project. No one in a small business wants the drawn out project. We want the results.

28:05

So for me, depending on the size of a website, it's usually a one to three day process to get a full website written. If it's just a review, it might be one to one and a half days. But usually for me the process is we have a chat, I ask you a bunch of questions on what you feel like is working and what you feel like is not. I'll obviously bring my own expertise into that conversation, but you will also have data from your analytics and opinions based on your own experience about what is and isn't working. And then usually I just say and leave it with me, and then I will do a rework of that content. I will ask questions where I feel like the gaps are. I will highlight areas that I think you need to add more content in or take content away, and essentially I kind of come back to you with a Google Doc and it's like here is what I believe is your updated website copy, and then you have 24 hours to kind of we review it together. You give me edits and then within 24 hours I come back and say here it is, it's finalized, send it to your web person or yourself, if you are the web person, and make those updates. So you've gone from making in theory, depending on the timeline, but from that first phone call with me to having your updated website copy is like a really fast turnaround.

29:09

So instead of update website being this task on the to-do list that just like month by month, just like Bob's along, yeah, and follow with you, and then all of a sudden you're like, ah, it's still there. That's what I like to try and avoid. I want this to be a transaction and not in a dirty transaction, a transaction. You know we're going to get it done and it's going to be off the list. So that's how I like to approach copywriting and my goal is always that that updated website copy then becomes so much marketing content for you. The language on there should go into your captions. The language in there should be the talking points that you do in your stories. That then goes into your highlights. That consistency piece in our marketing is so important and it often starts with if we get our website right, we can make that flow into everything else that we do and say.

29:55 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Yeah, you just answered my next question and that's something I definitely touched on a lot in my coaching, as well as finding a way to reiterate your message and repurpose, like the super hard work that goes into that main message so that you can put it in everything else.

30:09 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

Repetition is your friend. Ah, I love that.

30:12 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Well, if there is there anything else you want to add. I mean, you have that beautiful piece of advice but any other like sort of anything you want to leave people with before we jump off.

30:21 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

I just think we started the conversation talking about pricing, and it's such a passion thing of mine that your pricing should excite you, and I just want to leave people with that thought. If your pricing doesn't excite you, and instead of like doing a little happy dance and getting a spark of joy when a new client inquires or books, if you instead get overwhelming dread, to me that's just a big red flag that you're not being compensated for your amazing creativity, your amazing value. So just to have that confidence in yourself, and if, for any reason, you just feel like you can't charge more, I always say all roads lead to marketing. There's always a way. You just need to get your marketing right to increase that perception of your value so people will be willing to pay that price and invest in you at that level.

31:04 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

Perception of value is fascinating to me. I would love to have another chat with you and just talk about that, because I mean I'm like handbags and like I don't know. You know, I mean there's so much that we willingly pay a tremendous amount of money for because of our perceived value assigned to it.

31:24 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

I can have such a big conversation on that. I have so many thoughts. But yes, it's true, we have a perception of value and we, as business owners, have an opportunity to control how people perceive us. We just need to know how to do it correctly.

31:39 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

We are marketing I love this conversation and hopefully we can pick up this chat again sometime in the future. Would love to Today.

31:46 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

Do you want to just let people know where they can follow you and find you, and yes, so the strategy studio dot com is my website and I'm at the strategy studio on instagram. I'm on both of those platt among other platforms to be that's what you find the most active, and on both of those you find we can sign up to my email list and I send out marketing emails once a week and it's a mixture of tips that you can implement yourself. It's musings from my own experiences in business anything I can do to bring value, to help you feel that empowered to do what you can, instead of overwhelmed by all the things on the list that you're the noises telling you should do.

32:19 - Natalie Joanne (Host)

You don't need to do them all, you just need to do what you can I love like the energy coming from your advice and this conversation is making me feel good because I think In this industry coaching, whatever it is I think there is this overwhelm of just I use the word fire hose before, but it's, it's it's paralyzing for some people. They're just like I don't in there to do list, like you said like update website just follows them the whole year, you know, and I think it's really nice to have just to take it one breath at a time and just little by little, and it doesn't have to be this bonkers thing. So I appreciate that, totally agree. Well, thank you so much. If you're listening, you can find all of the links and things in the show notes, as always, and hopefully will let's pick up the value conversation. I think that'll be really fun.

33:09 - Tahnée Sanders (Host)

I would love to do that. Thank you so much for having me nettle. You have love chatting.