This is More Than Work, the podcast reminding

you that your self worth is made up of more than your job title.

Each week, I'll talk to a guest about how they discovered that for themselves.

You'll hear about what they did, what they're doing and who they are.

I'm your host, Rabiah.

I work in IT, perform standup comedy, write, volunteer, and of course podcast.

Thank you for listening.

Here we go!

Hey everyone, welcome back to more than work.

Um, this week's guest is just, I don't know, I'm always inspired.

So it's like, I'm always gonna say the same thing at the top, but I guess

that's that's okay cuz you can always skip this part, but this week's guest

Liz Benditt founded a company after facing her own cancer diagnoses.

She wanted to help other people and founded a company

that practically does that.

And I just thought like for our chat, just listening to her, talk

about her experiences with that was really helpful and meaningful.

I think a lot of us have had friends or family or even ourselves gone through,

um, health challenges and cancer is one of the most major ones you can go through.

And just the fact that she took her experience and in marketing and took

her experience with, with fighting a, a disease and turned it into something,

a positive company is awesome.

Uh, one thing that struck me was she brought.

At the end, um, Vladimir Zelensky and I just wanna say that I think there's

so much going on and we've a lot of us probably don't have Ukraine at

the front of our minds, but I just kind of wanna put that out there that

they are still at war and the people there are still going through things.

And, you know, keep that in mind.

If you're thinking about ways you can help others.

Speaking of helping others, Liz, and I talk a lot about service

and, and what that means to her and how she does service in her life.

And I just, I, I really enjoyed hearing about that.

And hearing about basically in every way that she's taken

adversity and turned it into action.

And that's something that really helps when you are facing challenges.

And so it's something that I don't sometimes don't do.

And, and I just liked being reminded of that.

So I'll probably just leave it at that and just let you get to the episode.

Thank you for listening.

I appreciate it.

Of course, like subscribe, review all that.

But, uh, thanks a lot and I appreciate you being here.

My guest today is Liz Benditt.

She is the founder and president of the balm box dot com (thebalmbox.com).

So we're gonna talk about that and her career and what lead

her to founding her own company.

So thanks for being on, Liz.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah.

I'm really excited that you're here and just to chat with you about everything.

So first of all, where am I talking to you from?

I am in Leawood Kansas, which is a suburb of Kansas city.

Hmm, cool.

I think you're actually my first guest from Kansas.

Woo.

Yeah.

Go Jayhawks.

nice.

Yeah, I was watching a show recently where the guy kept trying to say like,

go with, oh, was on American idol.

And Luke Bryan was trying to like, say, go whoever, like, so you said go Jayhawks.

But he was saying go whatever team to the people who are from the

South and he got them all wrong.

Well in Kansas, the two major universities in Kansas are University

of Kansas and Kansas State University.

And there's obviously very big rivalry between the two.

Right now, in addition to running The Balm Box, I also teach part-time at the

University of Kansas School of Business.

And so the KU icon are the Jayhawks and they're on the final

four for the madness basketball.

And I had to move an exam because my students were going to the basketball game

and I didn't wanna be a jerk, you know?

that's really nice of you and compassionate.

And I think actually my friend's daughter who listens to this podcast goes there.

I'm pretty sure.

So, yeah.

That's cool.

Well, so we've covered Kansas, well, part of Kansas and that's, that's

awesome that you're a professor.

So first of all, we're gonna talk about The Balm Box.

So why don't you say what that is then I wanna get into like how you got there?

Yeah, well, they go one and they go together, right?

So, the balm box dot com (thebalmbox.com) is a gifting site for cancer patients.

I launched The Balm Box after myself having had four different cancers over

the course of eight years and receiving so many well-meaning but pretty useless

junk, especially when I had breast cancer.

Breast cancer was the worst.

On the one hand, you know, all of the pink ribbon stuff is wonderful in terms

of getting women to get their annual mammograms and remember that they need to

have checkups and to check their boobs.

All of it is so important and so wonderful.

It's just, once you are diagnosed with breast cancer, receiving a whole bunch of

pink ribboned tote bags and t-shirts and coffee mugs, when you're in the middle

of treatment is super well-meaning but not necessarily super great to receive.

And at the same time, when I was going through all these

treatments, like surgeries and radiation, I needed stuff right?

I needed like ice packs that wouldn't leak through my clothes and I needed you know,

lotion for all the radiation burns and I needed, you know, something to separate

my seatbelt from my chest, because it really hurt, you know, the seatbelt was

rubbing against my tender chest area.

And and I kept looking on page 72, you know, searches on Google for

all this stuff while receiving, you know, gobs and gobs of unwanted junk.

And I kept thinking, there's gotta be a better way.

Why can't someone send me stuff I need as opposed to stuff they want me to have?

And that was really the, the logic behind The Balm Box.

I had this idea back in 2017.

I always wanted to do it.

At the same time.

I was kind of miserable in my, my corporate career which we can talk about.

And I started working on a business plan and, you know, it was just

always this kind of like fantasy idea that someday I would do it.

And then the pandemic happened and all of a sudden my busy working mom

life got a lot less busy and I wrote a survey to determine, am I the only one

that thinks that this is a good idea?

And it had these two paths, right?

So one path went down if you'd previously had cancer, it asked you a whole bunch

of questions about the kinds of items you would want to need and receive.

And to rate, you know, on a scale of one to five, a whole slew of stuff like things

that I had wanted to receive myself or that I did receive and didn't like, right?

And then the other path, just if you had never had cancer, went down,

if you're a gift buyer, you know, what did you spend, what did you...

and because it was the pandemic and everyone was home and bored, and I

sent it to everyone in my email address book, and I asked people to share it.

It went viral.

And it was amazing and got over 600 responses, which was incredible.

Yeah.

So, you know, being like a marketing geek that I am that's statistically

valid . And what was pretty amazing about the survey is that it totally

validated that I wasn't the only one.

And so when you ask cancer patients, what is it that you want to

receive and what would you like,

the top performing items are all functional.

Things that they wanted to receive and needed were lotion, lip, balm, ice

packs things that got the absolute worst ratings, the ones that nobody wanted,

number like 50, right, kicking cancer, tote bags, kicking cancer, coffee mugs.

Worry stones.

Inspirational poetry books, right?

So, you know, you could see this trend of functional items being the most wanted

and inspirational items is what I would call those things being the least wanted.

And then you ask if buyers, what did they buy?

Well, they bought mostly food and flowers and then inspirational junk.

And so I thought, wow, there's this real disconnect

between what do cancer patients need and want versus what are people buying?

And that led me to say, okay, this is for realsies and I need to do this.

And I took that summer and I made it happen.

it was amazing.

That's awesome.

That's really awesome.

And I do think, yeah, that makes sense.

I mean, I think when people, I haven't, I very fortunately haven't had cancer,

but I've, I've had quite a few friends go through it and, and my uncle and

stuff and there is that struggle of what do you do and how do you help

and how do you, what do you buy?

And, and so I'm, I'm a gift giver who does like practical gifts.

So I'll more want to know, like, what do you need?

And I know like people do meal trains and stuff like that,

which is really, I think, useful.

Like if someone has a family to take care of, but then yeah, I can see how,

first of all, buying things that just remind the person of what's going on

with them, like they know already.

And obviously their objective is to beat cancer so getting a tote bag is

really, you know, it's well-meaning.

Worst part, because say talking about the kicking cancer stuff

in the I it's, so well-meaning right?

It's so well-meaning, everyone is trying to, like you said,

they wanna do something.

They feel very helpless.

So sending inspirational elements saying I'm thinking of you is their

way of, you know, productively showing that they're thinking of you.

But it's not great to receive exactly for the reason you've said.

Like, I don't need a pink t-shirt to remind me of breast cancer.

And, and I, and I, you know, again, I don't wanna don't

wanna make gross statements.

I mean, there's certainly a segment I'm sure of cancer

patients that love that stuff.

And they're those, those are the ones that then take pictures in

it and post them at Instagram.

You know, and they, and they get a lot of excitement and,

and positive reactions to it.

So I'm not suggesting that it's everyone, but I will tell you the research show

the vast majority didn't like that stuff.

It did not.

It did not test well.

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

And I didn't, it was funny when you mentioned the like

book of inspirational poetry.

My, my therapist actually gave me a meditation book called "F That"

and it was like these really funny meditations, like, you know, that

fit me more than, than other ones.

But but yeah, I was thinking like, it was such a perfect gift, but I didn't even

think about people give stuff like that.

And I know for me just having some certain health things too,

I don't wanna always be reminded or always have to reassure people

about how bad or how good I feel.

It's not helpful.

So I, I just think you creating this company it's, it's so cool.

And it's so practical and I think can help a lot of people just

know what to buy, so awesome.

Not everyone can just start a company though and you, you mentioned

having a marketing background.

So can you talk a little bit about your career?

Sure.

So I have a, let's see, my undergraduate degree is in

Broadcast Film Communications.

So I like to say when I, my undergraduate degree, I learned to tell a story.

I learned how to story tell I worked at Disney for a couple of years and then

decided that I was much more interested in the business side of creativity

than generating creative content.

And so I went to USC and got my MBA and those two, you know, I, I, I say like, you

know, I worked on my right brain and my left brain and so then I put 'em together

and I've always tried to steer my career towards, you know, trying to pull on both.

And it's never been perfect.

And I think that that is in some ways that that's, that's been so

fulfilling as an entrepreneur that I really do now get to pull on both.

In my 20 year career, before that I worked at a variety of businesses and

brands and some that allowed me to kind of lean more on the left versus right

side of my brain and it was never perfect.

But it, it certainly, I learned so much, you know, so in every

career I worked at an ad agency called Barkley for five years.

I got to work on a huge variety of consumer products and brands.

I launched the My SONIC card for Sonic drive-in.

I did a whole bunch of relationship marketing and coupon programs

for Blue Bunny Ice Cream.

you know, I did a lot of relationship marketing there.

And then I was director of marketing for a couple of small businesses.

Westlake ACE hardware was a conglomerate of ACE hardware franchisees, and they

eventually sold to ACE corporate.

I also was director of marketing for The Lyric Opera of Kansas City.

Got to work a nonprofit, which I love was that was probably one of my favorite jobs.

And I went a whole 180 and went to EVP Marketing at a commercial

manufacturing company, cuz they offered me a lot of money.

Oh, cool.

That was a tough one.

That one was, I learned the lesson that work, you know, working in an environment

of people where you don't necessarily fit in the corporate culture, no matter

how much money it's not worth it.

Rabiah Coon (Host):

yeah, I had one of those.

Yeah.

I, that was a very, that was a rough one.

Although I made a lot of money, it was helpful.

So, so you know, I, I learned right.

So I learned and all of those different roles.

I've been both on the client side and the agency side.

So I have a really good feel for what it takes to both hire and fire contractors.

So I mean, you know, all of these elements, I've had a very big

focus on eCommerce and digital marketing and my various positions.

So, I learned, and so my corporate career really, I think to a certain

extent has given me a perfect platform to train me to be a direct to consumer

online e-commerce retail store owner.

But I don't, I certainly don't think I could have done it 10 years ago, right?

So I think that everything kind of happens for a reason that the, the moons aligned

and, and just the right way for me.

And for me, it was the, the pandemic was actually a gift because it gave me

this kind of extra time to really take a moment like everyone else is part

of the big resignation to say, okay, this is, this is what I wanna be doing.

How do I make it happen?

Mm-hmm yeah.

So yeah, the moons aligned for me in a combination of ways.

One being, I had this opportunity to teach at KU, which was kind of

a perfect part-time job to give us financial air cover for me to go

cold turkey on not making any income and, and really helped us enormously

in developing the business plan.

So I planned to go salary free for two years and can do so comfortably because

I also, you know, teach part-time at KU, which is by the way, super fun and

I to, from being part of that community and my students keep me young and, and.

I even have one as an intern this semester, which has really been fantastic.

So, so that, you know, helped me a lot.

And then also of course, you know, I have two teenage kids that are

very high demand and required to be driven, all sorts of places.

And my ability to launch a business, also aligned with our

ability to eliminate childcare.

My daughter is now 16 and can drive my son places.

And so all of a sudden that has opened up a lot of opportunities.

So again, it wasn't just the one thing, right?

It was a little bit of everything pulled together to make

this doable for our family.

Rabiah Coon (Host):

Mm-hmm yeah, definitely.

Rabiah Coon (Host):

And it just sounds like you're right.

Rabiah Coon (Host):

Things just aligned.

Rabiah Coon (Host):

And so as far as your, the job you left, had you thought

Rabiah Coon (Host):

about leaving prior to that?

I think that you know, if I go back 10 years, I've been

obsessed with Shark Tank, right.

You know,

the I love the idea right of being an entrepreneur, but it seemed

so far fetched given my personal responsibilities to my family, right?

You know, we are a two income family and my kids both play

very expensive club sports.

I'm not gonna tell you.

It's a lot.

Volleyball and tennis didn't think anything could be more

expensive than club volleyball.

I was wrong.

Tennis is worse.

And they've travel for their sports.

And I mean, and the, our financial responsibilities were such that the

idea of being a rogue entrepreneur was more of like a pipe dream.

But especially in 2017, when I was going through breast cancer

treatments, thinking this is crazy, there has to be a better way.

And then the following years where I became more and more miserable in

that particular job, then the idea it became more of a potential reality.

Like I really, really wanted to pursue it.

And so somewhere around 2019 was when my husband and I sat down

and said, what would it take?

Cuz he saw how unhappy I was in my career and unfulfilled and frustrated.

So then we started talking about what would it take for us to be a

one income family and what would we have to do and eliminate and save.

And that was when we started planning for it.

And so the plan always was actually for me to quit and start my entrepreneur

career in the spring of 2020, because that would align with when we could

eliminate the cost of childcare,

the driving and, and all that.

And and so the pandemic happened for me at exactly the right time,

cuz we had already planned, do you know what I mean for me to go rogue?

At that point, we had saved the money.

We had a financial plan.

And then the KU thing dropped in my lap, which was amazing.

So that's given us just incredible air cover.

So to answer your question, it was a gradual process.

I've been wanting to work for myself for a long, long time and it started,

but I didn't have any great idea, right.

That starts with, you know, what, what are you gonna do?

The idea, you know, other than being a marketing consultant, which didn't

appeal to me, I just didn't have any business idea and it wasn't until I

went through my, you know, my breast cancer experience that, that the

idea collided with my desire to be an entrepreneur, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

Rabiah Coon (Host):

Yeah, it absolutely does.

Rabiah Coon (Host):

And I, well, and you mentioned Shark Tank, and so just to go off top off topic of

Rabiah Coon (Host):

you for a minute, but sometimes on Shark Tank, I mean, you'll hear about these

Rabiah Coon (Host):

people who have taken all these loans and they're in incredible debt and it's wild

Rabiah Coon (Host):

to me cuz I'm just like, how has your spouse not really left at this point?

Rabiah Coon (Host):

So.

My spouse is amazing.

I am.

I'm so unbelievably lucky.

We are a team.

I, We were talking before you started recording how I follow a lot of

different breast cancer communities.

And I think that what I see is that marriages either get, you know

molded in iron as a result of their cancer experience or they fall apart.

And I'm so grateful and lucky that my cancer experiences have

only solidified my marriage.

I have the most incredible partner who is so unbelievably supportive.

I'm just unbelievably lucky and grateful.

I don't, I don't know how I, I lucked into that, but I have an incredible

support network in my, my husband and then certainly my family.

So, you know, we live in the Midwest.

Both of our parents are local.

So all of the little fill in the blanks where I need someone to pick

up my son from school and take him to tennis, or I, you know, all these

little things fill in the gap moments.

We also have that community and support.

So, I mean, all of these things contribute.

To my ability to, they contribute to a, my ability to have come through

my cancers with a positive attitude.

And then also my ability to be an entrepreneur, right?

Like I, you know, you, you have to have a support system.

I don't know any successful entrepreneur that doesn't.

Mm-hmm . Yeah.

And I think that's what, what you're saying about founding your own company,

and I've talked to a few founders and other, you know, other people too, but

what I notice is they all planned and they all planned with their partner.

Yes, yes,

Rabiah Coon (Host):

they all had a timeline

Rabiah Coon (Host):

that was like, if I can't do this in this amount of time, I have

Rabiah Coon (Host):

to go do something else kind of

thing.

Yeah.

And that's part of the deal, right?

Like I, part of the plan was the first two years of Balm Box, I

would go salary free, but come year three, I need to pull a salary.

And if I don't, then we need to really think through whether this is

a passion project or a real business.

And, and I think that that's fair and reasonable, you know, like it can't

be forever putting my husband in a position of being the sole breadwinner.

yeah, yeah.

yeah.

And that shows a partnership like, you know, people say partner, but it's,

it shows that it is a partner, not just someone who you've lived with

for many years and that's who you're, or you're married to or whatever.

So as far as I guess, looking at your company and you, and you have you worked

in a wide variety of things before, and I do think like working in marketing, right?

You got a perspective of different parts of the business.

I think there's a few jobs where you get a perspective of different parts of the

business and one is marketing for sure.

So as far as just creating your products and your product set and

stuff, and you're picking out the goods, and probably testing them, and,

and how's that process been for you?

I mean, just being a merchandiser really is what you've had to do.

Yeah, well, so a couple of things, I mean, I take you take

things from different jobs, right?

So I do remember going back all the way, my first job out of grad

school was working at hallmark dot com (hallmark.com) and I was in the

advertising department at Hallmark.

And I don't know if you remember this at all or if you were in the states,

this would've been early two thousands.

Hallmark was going through a huge product strategy reinvention, and it

was gonna take them a couple of years.

So they were relying on the promotions team to come up with one offy

promotional products that could be quick manufactured and get people

into stores to buy cards while they were reinventing the product line.

And this was at the time when they, when the Beanie Babies were being retired and

that was what they needed to replace and they weren't gonna do that overnight.

And so I learned a ton about product testing through that process.

And that is how hallmark came up with the Kiss Kiss Bears.

I don't know if you remember these, but these were like little teddy bears

with little magnets in their lips.

And then, you know, you would smoosh 'em together and they would kissy, you

know, and the magnets would touch and they would be kissy, kissy, kissy bears.

And they were like a huge hit and they weren't a hit out of nothing.

They were tested . They knew that there were a hit before they went

and invested in a bunch of plush toys with magnets in their lips.

And of course, you know, because Valentine's Day is the number

one holiday for homework.

So you can you start with that?

So that wa has always stuck with me, watching a promotional product,

become a hit and the process that they used to test and the target

and how they did that testing.

At the time, it was really new to do it all online instead of doing

it in like physical facilities.

And it worked really well, and it was a really great validation of internet

survey functionality, which again, you know, 22 years ago it was, it was new.

So you kinda start with that and then you move forward to different

jobs where, um, so at Hallmark, I had a very, I had a position that was

very marketing communications heavy.

I managed email marketing, and like I said, part of this market research

element, but I knew nothing about business operations until I went

to work for smaller businesses.

And so, for example, when I went to, when I was Director of Marketing at

Lyric Opera, Kansas city, it was part of the executive leadership team.

And I contributed to building out that P and L and I had a really good

understanding of how the cost of the sets and costumes for Carmen compared

to the cost and sets of costumes for La Boehme, and what the draw of those

particular titles would be, what the, the overall, you know, revenue versus

cost versus overhead looked like.

And so again, product development in entertainment is a little different

right than physical product development.

But again, you kind of put these different experiences together

and you have a bigger appreciation for how to build out a business.

So in I've, you know, I have written marketing plans before.

This was the first time I wrote a business plan where I really had to think through

not just the cost of my advertising and what kind of revenue would generate,

but what would it cost me to build out, you know, to have a, a website?

What does it cost to host?

What does it cost to keep it active?

What, you know, all of these other incremental costs.

But the good news is because I had contributed to the business planning

for those smaller businesses.

I had a really good feel for it, and that was again, really good training.

For when I, I went, went solo printer.

So

yeah.

Yeah.

And then,

then how did the question is how do I do that?

So then I had,

I understood, I had a template.

I, you know, I started building out what all the different costs would be.

I I manage, I do my own bookkeeping.

My mother-in-law is a tax preparer and she's always said, and I so agree with

her that as an entrepreneur, you will never understand your business better.

Unless you do your own bookkeeping, she really encouraged me not

to, you know, hire a bookkeeper and accountant to do it myself.

And she's totally correct.

So I have a really good feel for what it takes to run my business

on a daily, weekly, monthly basis that I don't think I would have

if I didn't do my own bookkeeping.

So it's a little bit tedious, but it for sure is it helps me see things.

I will also say until I became my own bookkeeper for my own business.

I now feel kind of sorry for all of the boss.

Where as the director of marketing or VP of marketing, I would scream and cry about

how marketing wasn't getting enough money.

And now I'm looking at my P and L going, oh, marketing is so expensive.

So, so now I appreciate a little bit better.

Oh

I took in

Well I'm so I'm like so cheap about

spending other people's money.

I don't know what my problem is, cause I'm really bad with my money,

but like at work, I I'm, I'm in marketing now and it's, it's new for

me, but my boss will kind of be like, okay, well, what did we need to get?

And I'm like, I don't know, I can do this for free.

Like everything, it's so ridiculous.

But my mom had, and, and dad had their own business.

They had an auto repair shop, but I remember my mom did all her books

and she knew it was pretty impressive like knew the price of all the air

filters and all the parts and the oil

and things like that.

And it's, and I didn't appreciate it as a kid, like what she was doing.

And I always think she hasn't valued herself enough because she really

did run a business to run all her books and know all the cost of goods.

And now for you, like you have to know about shipping too and

storing and all that stuff,

which I worked in warehouse management and it's a lot.

It is a lot and yes, shipping is next.

I mean, number one cost every month is advertising and then shipping is right

up there in terms of just hard costs.

And so I am very, very on top of changes to shipping costs

and editing those in charges and monkeying with pricing, all of that.

And that is the nice thing that I'm really loving, obviously working for myself is I

don't have to any there's no permission.

There's no, you know, review process.

If I have an idea, I can throw something out there and see what sticks it's it's.

I do love that that freedom.

Mm-hmm

Yeah, totally.

So in looking at your creation of your company, because you identified

a need because of your experience with cancer and with cancer several times,

and I guess several types, right?

You you've spent a lot of time uniquely and unfortunately, but just I'm, I'm

like just grateful to be talking to you cause I, I know part of what you've gone

through and I was just thinking too about like your experience with just going

through that so many times, like how did you change your relationship with

your body over time and just dealing

yeah.

An interesting question.

doing that stuff.

Yeah.

I, you know, certainly it's hard to say, right?

I mean, my, I, my very first cancer was melanoma, which is lethal, right?

It's, it's a very scary cancer.

And I had that cancer and I was diagnosed when I age everything

with, by my kids, right?

As a total mom.

So my son was one and my daughter was three.

And you know, and so you still, you know, postpartum, right?

From the baby.

And then my last was in 2017.

My kids were like, what is it?

12 and 14.

So it was my feeling about my body.

Changes, you know, changes over the course of your thirties

and forties, I think naturally.

And certainly I have more appreciation for the fighting spirit, of

my ability to overcome things.

I think the first time I was diagnosed with cancer, I was in

the panic mode and, and that was such a crazy, crazy experience.

If I go back to that time, I had a mole on my upper thigh and it was summertime

and I was at the pool with my parents.

My son was one and he was, you know, that baby thing, you know, where they decided

to just have a little nap in the moment.

And so he was sleeping on my chest and I was sitting on a, in a pool

lounge chair and I had my legs kind of hitched up in a weird position to

basically keep him anchored to my body.

So he wouldn't fall off, right?

And so I only say that because my mom was sitting next to me and she kept

looking at this mole in my thigh saying, I don't like the look of that mole.

You need to go get that checked out.

And I blew her off.

I was like, and I only say that I was in that position.

Cause I don't that she would've like really paid a whole lot of

attention to a mole on my upper thigh.

And so she really nagged me about that mole for a while.

I mean, it was for like weeks after she would text me and, and email me and

ask me if she wanted her to make an appointment for me at her dermatologist.

I mean, just all the, like, she was just really, really aggressively Jewish mom.

And finally, just to get her to shut up, I went to the dang dermatologist

and the dermatologist didn't like the look of the mole either.

She took it off, scraped it off in the, in the, that day said,

well, we're gonna biopsy this and we'll just take a look at it.

I didn't think anything of it.

And three days later, she called to say, Hey, just wanna

let you know, that's melanoma.

I'm gonna make an appointment with a surgeon.

It's too big for us to do the surgery in the office.

You have to go to an actual, you know, surgical center and I'm

gonna make an appointment and I don't care what's on your calendar.

You're gonna go to that appointment.

And so I went from they took the, a little skin sample on a Friday.

It was a holiday weekend, I think.

So then on Tuesday she called to give me the diagnosis.

Wednesday I met with a surgeon Friday.

I had surgery.

Like there was no time to plan and everyone kept saying, if the cancer

has spread, you got a year to live.

And if you, if it hasn't spread, no biggie just wear more sunscreen.

I mean, and that's just, a really broad choice.

And so, you know, going back to that kind of air cover, you know, that was

in some ways it was wonderful having like little kids at home, right.

That are just little need machines.

They have no idea what's going on.

So we're home with the toddlers, my mom.

Oh, fun fact about my mom at the time my dad was working on this project

in Asia and my mom was getting on a plane to go join him in China.

And she hadn't seen him in like weeks and was so excited for this big trip to China.

And I called to say, you're not gonna believe this.

I have melanoma.

I have to have surgery in the next couple of days.

I, you know, I was panicked.

And she turned to the stewardist and said, I need to get off this plane.

Like this is post-9/11.

I have no idea how they let her off that plane.

She's amazing.

Right.

And she was with us all weekend.

And like, she was sort of like, I keep talking about how she was the adult in the

room that kind of kept us all grounded.

And then Monday we got the call.

It hadn't spread.

I was fine.

Buy some more sunscreen and some hats.

And, and you have a nice life, which is a lot to process in the course of a week.

it was just a lot.

And then not even a year later, I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and that

one at the time, again, it was such a, it was a whole 180 where they said, well,

it's a really slow moving cancer, and we want you to do all this like super long

list of labs before you get into surgery.

So we're gonna schedule your surgery for like six to eight weeks from now.

But go ahead and knock out these labs before then.

And.

At that time, I was so panicked.

Like I have cancer in my body.

Don't you wanna get it out immediately?

Is it my surgery Friday?

And they were like, no, no, you're good.

It's fine.

And at the time it stressed me out that I had to wait.

And now in retrospect it was a gift.

Like that time was great.

It gave me time to plan.

I had childcare in place.

In my last, my job, before that I had to like drop out of everything

I was doing to go have surgery.

That was craziness.

Whereas being able to plan for it was lovely.

It was a, it was a gift, even though it was very stressful at the time.

And then unfortunately I had a really, really rare side effect

as a result of that surgery which landed me in the hospital for

an extra two and a half weeks.

which was not fun.

I don't recommend it.

Zero out of 10, do not recommend.

And eventually kind of got my health back on track.

And I think, so you ask about how I think about cancer and my health.

That was that year after having thyroid surgery was the hardest physically for me.

I had this really rare side effect that made me hypocalcemic, which

means that my body doesn't process calcium like a normal human.

And so what would happen is I would get low on calcium and then you need

calcium in your bloodstream to process motor function and and muscle function.

And so what happens is if you go into some variation of hypocalcemic shock,

then your muscles stop working, and eventually it gets to your heart,

your heart stops pumping and you die.

And so my calcium would just drop and I would start feeling tingles and numbness

in my hands and my lips and my face.

And that would be a sign that I needed to get to the ER, to get IV calcium.

But it's so rare that I would have to explain this over and over and over again

to the ER tech saying, I need IV calcium.

I know what I need.

You have about an hour.

Like, let's get the calcium going.

And and it's not like something they have on hand.

It's not common.

Um, There was one time where I was in an ER, where the poor nurse, like they

didn't have anything in like a drip bag.

So she just stood there with a syringe slowly just dripping it

into my vein so that I wouldn't die.

So going through that was really hard.

And I, that was when I started to, when we talked a little bit before

about advocating for myself because I was working with an endocrinologist

that kept saying, well, your labs are normal, so you should be fine.

But then I would end up in the ER in hypocalcemic shock.

Like, no, I'm not fine.

I don't know what, maybe my body just needs more calcium than

the normal human, I don't know.

Or maybe this test is flawed.

I don't, I don't know, but I can't make this up.

trust me.

I'm not trying to.

And so, And I would complain that I was just so tired and I was more

tired than I ever was in my life.

Even when I had babies that weren't sleeping through the night,

like this, something was wrong.

And he was like, nah, you're a working mom.

Working moms are always tired.

And I was like, yeah, you're fired.

yeah,

I didn't say that out loud.

I wish I did at the time, but I didn't.

And so I just left, didn't make a follow up appointment and, and went to go see

somebody else who would listen to me.

And in the meantime waiting to get to a different endocrinologist, a friend

of a friend turned me onto this.

I keep calling her the crazy doctor lady.

She was an MD.

She ran a health spa.

She was one of those early med spa folks that was using what do you call it?

Botox to help migraine patients, which I think has become a more common cure.

But at the time is 10 years ago, it was much, much more

controversial and not common.

And so she looked at my labs and said, you know, I feel like you're behaving,

like someone that might be celiac.

Why don't you drop gluten?

See what happens.

And I dropped gluten and she put me on this, you know, in a low

carb, high protein diet, bunch of other nutritional supplements.

And within six weeks I had dropped 15 pounds.

I felt like I woke up.

I wasn't so tired all the time.

I eventually got to an endocrinologist that adjusted my meds, gave me a totally

different mix of things to kind of solve for this calcium deficit and

I haven't been in hemic shock since.

And so I think that that whole process of learning to listen to my body and advocate

for myself was hugely formative as I got into my final two cancer diagnoses.

So my third one was when I had basal cell skin cancer on my nose, which

is really not lethal, not a big deal.

The problem was of course it was just big enough on my nose

that they needed to take off.

And it required plastic surgery to cover the hole in my nose so I

would have skin covering my nose.

You can't really tell on this video cause it's not really good,

but I'm, I have a lot of freckles.

And so normally with they do in this situation is they would take skin from

somebody's neck and then kind of use that to patch the hole in the nose.

But because of my freckle pattern, that wouldn't work, it would

just look like I had a big old blotch, you know, in my nose.

So I learned right through this whole process.

Okay.

This isn't lethal.

I have.

A hot sec to figure out what I wanna do.

And so I went to the plastic surgeon, you know, to get the,

to discuss what the options were.

This original plastic surgeon wanted to create a a scar where

he would start from the inside.

I'm putting my finger like on the inside of my eyeline and then cut all along my

cheek line all the way down to my chin and then use that to somehow kind of

Jerry rig the skin to cover up the nose section that would needed to be cut off.

And so I said, so I'm gonna have a scar running from my eye to my chin?

And yes, and that was his, that was the one ch that was what he wanted to do.

And I was like, well, gosh, that really, I mean, I'm in my thirties

and I don't wanna be super vain, but I don't wanna be Scarface.

Like that really sucks like that,

Yeah, well, it seems unnecessary.

another, another plastic surgeon.

See, there's another alternative.

And so I asked around and I used my network and I found that the

plastic surgeon in my area who was quote unquote, great with faces.

And and he had a totally different surgery where he would cut along

the shadow line of my nose and that it was a crazy surgery.

It was bananas.

It was a two part surgery where the first time they would cut along the

nose, they would get rid of this cancer.

And then he did this crazy thing where he stretched out the skin.

So he separated the skin between my face and my cheekbones.

Like, you know, when you're like putting like stuffing a Turkey or chicken,

you're putting like that inside.

That's what they were doing to my face.

And I was awake for it.

Do not recommend it so,

Oh my gosh.

And then you, you hang out and you wait a week and let

the skin just loosen up and then go back to have it all closed up.

And in this process, you walk out without a scar.

And so it was a miserable medical treatment to go through, but I chose it.

And I chose it knowing that this was what was gonna save me from being

Scarface for the rest of my life.

And so knowing that this was the resolution that I chose and that I

wanted was made all the difference in kind of dealing with walking around

with an open wound in my face and the misery of that surgery, because

now I don't look like I Scarface.

Right.

You can't tell, I mean, you really can't.

He was really amazing.

And when it's time to fix any kind of Dr.

Slip, I would be calling Frank Ranic.

He was really good.

So, so yeah, so, you know, you learn, right?

So all this process is learning.

And then with my breast cancer, in some ways it was the same thing where

trying to decide whether to get a mastectomy or lumpectomy, trying to

decide whether I was gonna do radiation or, you know, Tamoxifen, all these

things to me are a conversation, right?

It's it's I met with a couple different doctors and have learned now that I

like to work with doctors who are open to a conversation about the options

and the puts and takes of each option.

I don't respond well to medical dictators.

And and I don't know that I would have known that or known that I could interview

doctors for as much a personality mesh, as a medical opinion, as I did

10 years ago when I first started.

And so in some ways I'm really grateful for all my other cancers, cuz they

helped me navigate the breast cancer, which in some ways was the most

complicated, with more confidence.

And I did take my time to look at all the different treatment plans.

I mean, one of the things that I learned through this whole breast cancer

treatment element is that so many of the long term studies are a blend of women

between the ages of 35 and, and 80.

And I wanted to look at studies and outcomes for premenopausal

women, because I think that that is a different lifespan, right?

And that's a, that's a different question than the older community.

And and those are more new and more nuanced.

And so, doctors willing to have that conversation with me and entertain

my quest, my need for information were the people I wanted and wanted

to work with and chose to work with.

And to this day, I'm really grateful.

I feel, I mean, I think that I came out of it, not feeling like my body is broken,

which I think would be very easy to feel.

Instead.

I'm really feel like man, I'm a warrior, right?

Like I survived all this stuff.

I'm forged in iron.

I'm good.

Yeah,

Yeah.

I mean, and I like, I haven't gone through that, but just seeing,

observing different people going through it and different outcomes.

And just also knowing for myself, like, just hearing you say about the gluten

thing and, you know, just with me getting diagnosed with celiac, it took years.

And it took me having to say, no, it's not because I'm a woman and my period.

It's not that because I was, I was iron deficient and with my

weight, it didn't make any, and what I eat did not make any sense.

And so then they were like, oh, it's we need to do a hysterectomy.

And it's like, what are you talking about?

Like, and so then it was just a simple blood test I found out about that said, oh

yeah, you have this protein that indicates that you're probably, you know, at least

intolerant of gluten, then an endoscopy, which was very easy as a procedure.

In and outta the hospital and like an hour.

And I was like, oh, you have celiac.

So just stop eating gluten.

And then yeah, it changed my life.

It changed my mental health and everything, you know?

So it, to me, it's just I think it's great that you were able to figure

out how to be your own advocate.

And I think so many people don't do that because of how the medical

system, I mean, especially in the states is set up, but also

it is.

And I

will say the other thing that is, you know, and I say this with

humility, I, the reason I was able to navigate and be my own advocate was

cause I threw a lot of money at it.

And I'm so unbelievably lucky that we could afford to do that.

You know?

So many other patients don't have that flexibility and that's,

what's so frustrating, certainly,

especially in the states.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And even here, I mean, just trying to do certain things, I mean, it's really

lucky in the sense that if you have a condition or something that they

can handle fine, but if it's something too much or you want different

opinions, it's really hard to do.

So that is a good point.

That there's a, there's a part of that too.

There's a cost, there's a cost to all this stuff.

It's not necessarily covered by insurance.

And, and even if things covered by insurance, you have to fight for.

So it's there advocating for oneself does not ever end.

yeah, that's true.

And it's other situations too.

Not just with medical, but that's a big one.

Yes.

I think to a certain extent learning to advocate for myself medically

has also taught me to advocate in other ways like, okay, throw

your critical analysis hat on.

Does this make sense to you?

Does it pass the sniff test?

It doesn't.

Well, then let's just ask.

Let's just, you know, let's just see if there's another alternative.

A hundred percent.

So besides the business, and even, I think even you starting that kind

of parallels to, you know, that, that question of like, what would

be most helpful to someone, right?

I mean, it really does.

So besides that and your work at at the University of Kansas

School of Business, you also are involved in some community work

I am.

My first kind of, well, I've always been, you know, on the PTA and whatever,

involved in my kids' schools, but my very first for four right into political

advocacy and in just becoming more involved in my community started in 2016,

I was working at Lyric Opera of Kansas City, a nonprofit arts organization.

I'm sure you can imagine very liberal-minded individuals that worked

there and we were all really devastated after Trump won the election in 2016.

We were just, I, I mean, everyone, it was the funniest thing.

Everyone wore black to the office the next day was just without

planning it, it just happened.

At the time some issues started popping up locally.

I started really focusing on this whole concept of, you

know, think globally act locally.

And a connection from the opera was getting more and more incensed about

this very particular issue in our elementary schools or in our, our

school district.

Do you remember the safety pin issue post Trump?

Way back 2016, there were many, many minority communities that were very

stressed about Trump winning the election because he had come across as very,

you know, racist and, and terrible, and which I don't think was totally wrong.

And so a lot of teachers and people in the community were wearing safety pins

to show that they were a safe person and the superintendent of our local schools

told teachers they weren't allowed to wear safety pins because that was a political.

Message of some sort and the a C L U got involved and sued the school district.

And that one question of, gosh, that seems like a crappy thing for the superintendent

to get involved and to even make a statement about made me start to scratch

the surface of a lot of other questions and things that were happening in my

school district that I just wasn't aware of because I wasn't paying attention and

made me realize, oh, I need to clue in.

And if I wanna be upset about all these like federal issues, I need to

focus on my local community first.

And so, a group of moms and I organized a group called

Education First Shawnee Mission.

And Shawnee Mission is our school district.

And we have been advocating for progressive school board

candidates and policies since 2017.

And it's just been this really wonderful grassroots education, right,

in local politics and the importance of advocacy and and all that stuff.

And then we got involved with the Kansas governor race, as well as

House and State Representative races.

And you know, there's still a lot of really crazy things happening in the state

of Kansas that we are not happy about.

There's good news, bad news.

The bad news is the rest of Kansas is, is bananas crazy.

We've got some, some really questionable stuff running through our house right now.

But the good news is that all the legislatures from our area that we

advocated for in our community are the ones out there fighting against it.

And so, I won't get into all of my local politics here, but I learned, right?

So you learned how to advocate, right.

So going back to advocate for myself and advocating for my kids'

school, my kid's school district.

And I've loved that it's been a really incredible gratifying experience.

I think at the time when I had been part of that group organization, I

kept thinking maybe this will solve my need to own something and be

passionate without having the oversight right of a boss or, or a board.

And it, again, it was a little bit of an entrepreneurial endeavor to

create a grassroots organization with a bunch of other women.

But it didn't solve it entirely, but certainly again, it was a

great education and, and I'm still on that board of directors.

And since then my daughter and I have joined National Charity League and I

will be on their board n ext season.

And so I have the opportunity to explore other local organizations

in our community, everything from you know, we gave out meals to

homeless people a couple weeks ago.

uh, We're doing some work at a local food bank.

I mean, so just other kinds of things where you try to, you know,

make sure that the gaps and coverage and help and assistance needed in

our community are being covered.

So that's, you know, I try to give back in those ways

I'm just, and no one can see us cuz we're not on video, but

I'm grin.., like I'm just so grateful that to talk to someone who's

doing that kind of work because for me, service is a core value.

And I think I I've tried to encourage people through this podcast to do a

few things, but one of 'em is to serve and to, and it's in any way they can,

you know, there are different things.

Not everyone can, can, you know, start a grassroots organization,

but certainly people can even just make sure their neighbor's okay.

You know, if that's what they can do

that the, the best part of, I mean, and certainly more with

National Charity League than through ed Education First Shawnee Mission

is, is definitely more of a political, you know, communications organization.

But National Charity League has opened my eyes to how unbelievably privileged I am.

And, you know, especially when I was going through treatments, radiation in

particular, and it was so miserable and unhappy and feeling crappy, you know,

I at least have a bed and I can buy whatever I want at the grocery store.

And I can pay for these expensive...

I remember once I paid $40 for overnight shipping for a $9 aluminum

free deodorant that I wanted to try.

Like, that is such a privilege, you know, to be able to do those things

that and just in my community, like two miles away people can't do.

So I think that reinforcing the importance of gratitude is also helpful.

Yeah.

And I think people in general, I'd say, have started to understand what

privilege means more than they used to.

And I think it has been something that was politicized, which didn't need to be,

No,

know, it didn't need to be so politicized for us to understand

that um, maybe not us, but just other people, but I think you know, out of

one thing, I'm just noticing, I'd say a theme I'm getting from you is just

out of difficult situations, whatever they are, you are someone who's tried

to make something positive happen.

And I don't know if you've recognized that in yourself, but that's

what I'm recognizing, you know,

That's so nice to hear.

I mean, I, for, I certainly take that from my grandparents,

my grandmother in particular.

My grandmother grew up in Poland in pre-World War II.

Jewish.

Looked like me.

Very ENT looking, although very Jewish, a hundred percent.

And she had five sisters was married, had a son and lived in the ghetto in

Grajewo and the walls were closing in.

They knew that they were gonna get shipped out.

And so the family sent her to go find a hiding spot for her family.

Took her a couple of days when she came back, the Grajewo ghetto had been emptied

and her entire family had been killed.

And so she ended up hiding herself in the hopes that she

would be reunited with them.

She hid in a variety of different places.

Ultimately met my grandfather and one of them after the war, you know,

she confirmed that everyone was gone.

Married my grandfather, my mother was born in Poland.

They eventually immigrated to the United States when my mom was six years old.

It's a crazy story.

My grandmother, I mean, think about what she suffered, right?

Like that.

And she was the most grateful person.

She was filled with joy all the time, all the time.

She was just so grateful for this second life she says.

You know, that, that she had.

And I think about her all the time.

that's incredible.

So, and yeah and just generationally how she passed that down.

You know, my grandfather was not, he was really kind of the

more, you know, stereotypical martyr.

And he was really frustrated and felt like the world owed him something

for what he suffered through.

Whereas my grandmother just was filled with gratitude and happy and and very

grateful for every day that she got that was extra from her point of view.

This extra family, This, this bonus life.

And so I think about that a lot.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's a great thing to have center you really.

So I guess then next thing is just to wrap up.

I like to ask every guest, do you have any advice or mantra you like to share?

I mean, you've already talked about a few things, so if you think we've

covered it, then that's okay too.

No, I think, I mean, I think at the end of the day we

talked a lot about, I think it's so important to advocate for yourself.

Ask questions.

You know, make sure that you're working with either in, in the medical field

with doctors that share your your values.

And, and I think that that goes for, you know, work and life as well.

I agree.

It's harder.

It's hard to be around people and, or work for a company that

you don't share some values with.

And so I agree that people should empower themselves.

So my next set of questions are just the Fun Five, and they're just the

questions I like to ask at the end.

They're, they're fun for me to know about.

So, what's the oldest t-shirt you have and still wear?

The oldest t-shirt I, you is I still have a state college high

school cheer t-shirt in my pajama drawer.

nice

it's like got a couple holes in it, but it's really soft

yeah.

Yeah.

And it's for, you know, pajamas or whatever

it is.

And in the, in the, when I wore it in the nineties, that's stylist

to wear things really oversized.

So it fits.

I know, I, I constant, I have a few shirts that are very old.

This old Phil Collins shirt actually from like when I was in high school and

I'm definitely, I've gained quite a bit of weight since then, but it still fits.

And I'm like, what in the world was I wearing back then?

It's insane.

So, yeah, it's funny.

That style was actually useful, to be honest with you.

So if every day was really groundhogs day, like it, like, it felt when we were

in the kind of the COVID the part of COVID where we did have to stay at home

all the time, what song would you have your alarm clock play every morning?

Christina Aguilera, I'm a Fighter.

Nice.

Was that your song?

Basically for a lot of

It's like my

Amazing.

Nice.

All right.

Coffee or tea or neither?

Coffee.

Addicted.

I will not give it up.

I have reflux, don't care.

I will take medicine.

I need coffee.

Nice.

Do you have any particular way you like your coffee?

We, for our 19th wedding anniversary bought this super fancy,

pretty fantastic coffee machine and it makes Americanos and lattes and

macchiatos, and it's the most awesome thing I've ever, and it grinds the beans

and it was the biggest splurge I've ever.

And I love it.

Nice.

That's awesome.

That's good.

So can you think of a time that you laughed so hard you cried or just

something that makes you crack up?

I just always like to know what cracks people up.

Well, my husband is, we got our dog back in 2015 and

he'd never had a pet growing up.

I, he had birds, which that doesn't count.

So like he is always just so fascinated by dog behavior.

So for sure, our dog's various like grunts and sounds and will noises

and behaviors are always funny to us.

But now he's obsessed with like various dog videos, like

people on TikTok and Instagram.

And so he's currently obsessed with this this Clarence the dog category

videos, and they are really funny.

I don't know what to tell you.

They're, they're stupid.

Every day, he, he sends me a new dog video of some stupid silly dog video.

I think of the videos that he wishes he could come up with because

our dog is also ridiculous, but

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I don't know how people do it, cuz they do come up with these things and they

get all these likes and views and stuff.

And cuz dogs are funny.

I, I tried to interview my sister's dog on this podcast and it was I'll

send it to you just in case you guys like it, cuz it didn't get many views.

Yeah, I was bummed to be honest.

All right.

And the last one, who inspires you right now?

Well, I mean right now, I've, I don't know about you,

but I am obsessed with all the news and what not coming out of Ukraine.

I think Zelensky is incredible.

I am constantly hopeful that we get a good resolution for Ukraine that doesn't

involve them being overtaken by Russia.

I, I think his his leadership is just inspired and, and fascinating.

It is.

And definitely share that hope as well.

So if people wanna find The Balm Box, or you, where should they go?

The Balm B-A-L-M-B-O-X dot com (thebalmbox.com).

And we're on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and LinkedIn.

And always start with the website, www dot the balm B-A-L-M-B-O-X

dot com (thebalmbox.com).

Awesome.

All right, Liz.

Well, it's been great to talk to you.

Thanks so much for being on More Than Work.

Thank you for having me.

This was great.

Thanks for listening.

You can learn more about the guest and what was talked about in the show notes.

Joe Maffie created the music you're listening to.

You can find him on Spotify at Joe M A F F I A.

Rob Metke does all the design for which I am so grateful.

You can find him online by searching Rob M E T K E.

Please leave your review if you like the show and get in touch

with feedback or guest ideas.

The pod is on all the social channels at, at more than work pod

(@morethanworkpod) or at Rabiah Comedy (@rabiahcomedy) on TikTok.

And the website is More Than Work Pod dot com (morethanworkpod.com).

While being kind to others, don't forget to be kind to yourself.