a lot of ways that we can communicate with people online.

Uh, customers, community members, followers, audience, whatever

you wanna talk to, however, however you wanna consider them.

But ultimately, um, there's something around the, what the, the quality and I

think the, the level of connection that you can make with different channels.

I dunno, I'm gonna explore this.

Um, but before we kick off, uh, maybe Lyndsay, why don't you just for people

who are listening to this or, um, jumping on for the first time, like Jess, who

might not know you, maybe share a little bit about, uh, what you do at the moment.

What's your, how you best describe your work and maybe how best

you'd like to describe yourself.

So my background was in digital design.

Um, well all realms of design from branding to website in the old world

website, ways to digital product design, which is a lot to do with usability

and, um, what on, on online journeys, trying to get somebody from here to there

as quickly and enjoyably as possible.

But then I, um, I had two kids and pretty much immediately intend with

that, decided that my two passions, design and the environment were really

kind of excluding the environment.

And with having kids, I really wanted to be doing something that was more

directly related to the environment.

I was doing nothing related.

I was working for Virgin Holidays and Apple and, you know, great

companies with enjoyable work, but not doing anything that felt

fulfilling in this other kind of realm.

So I, uh, decided to make bags, which is obviously jumping many

steps there in terms of a tangent, trying to make it a little bit more

getting to the newsletter part.

But, um, I decided to start using all the skills that I had in a way that I could

relate to the environment in some way.

And so I loved bags.

I needed a bag and I couldn't find one that met all the needs I wanted.

So just something that was an everyday slick looking bag that I could use

for the countryside walks with the kids or the playground, but also

be smart enough to take to kind of the design meetings I was going to.

Um, and decided to make this myself, which was absurd because I didn't know anything

about making a bag and manufacturing or what would be involved in materials.

But I decided to do this and it's been this amazing thing.

It, it was something that I can create using the materials I wanted to.

And so be thinking about footprint there.

But then it's become this piece where it is so much more about the

environment in a different way.

And this is really why the newsletter is what we're chatting about right

now because it's been, I really wanted to do this to change minds in terms

of being aware of, uh, our footprint and making things, sure we buy things

that are the best, the best possible.

Probably one of the more gratifying interactions was with this, uh, woman

that I bumped into when I went back to America and we had gone to high school

together, in the states where I grew up.

And we, she was no close friend.

She just, Happened to get on my newsletter at some point when I was at the early

days trying to get anybody and everybody that I knew, all the family and friends

from distant ways, you know, to sign up.

And so she had signed up, which was wonderful of her.

Um, and we happened to meet up because I was in Portland, Oregon and I

don't normally go that far a field.

And, um, she, it was, it was so wonderful.

She's like, I had studied environmental science in, uh, university.

And she said, I just, I've gone and I've changed kind of jobs and I now

do real estate and I love what I do 'cause I'm doing it in a unique way.

But I've lost that, that passion and that focus of the environment and

just you, through your newsletters and what you're trying to do, you know,

using your voice is, is so important.

And that's really brought that back to me and I'm trying to

be more responsible once again.

And that was just, uh, yeah, a really wonderful thing where somebody had

chosen for their life's path to be this, you know, one way and spent

multiple years a study on this.

And then it's, I just happen to be my newsletters, which are not, I'm,

I, I come from no background in the environment, just a lifelong love of it.

Was there a a key turning point that you can identify that made you think, okay,

I need to, you, you talked about kids.

Was it purely having kids and thinking about, all right, what does

this mean in terms of the future?

Or was there something else that inspired you to think, okay, I want

to think, think about, work more holistically and try and bring in more

aspects to what I'm passionate about?

Why I decided to work on bags, so I was very happy in the work

that I was doing beforehand.

And when I started to create this bag, it wasn't because I need exclusively

this platform for the environment.

I was at a point in my life where I didn't know what I wanted to do.

I had two young kids and all the incredibly creative work was in

London, two hours commute away.

My husband was already doing that commute and so I was trying to figure

out, like, I was at the place where I was like open to ideas of what could I

be doing myself using the skills that I have, even if it isn't directly just

the design that I have done in the past.

And so it wasn't exclusively.

I use that time to identify what are the passions that I really do

love and what I'm really excited by.

And the environment and design just kept on popping up when I was trying

to do like, post-it notes of, you know, workshopping myself basically, and finding

my, my, my, my voice, my career, whatever.

Yeah, and so the environment, this was one where like, I, I came across a bag

one evening, um, pre prep, preparing for an interview for a different job.

Um, and I felt like it was almost the right bag.

It was, it looked so close and then I just spent so much time dissecting

it and being like, actually I wouldn't be able to get to the keys.

I don't know where there's a pocket for the keys.

I'm gonna have to open up the whole bag.

And actually the straps are a little bit beefy and a little bit like less unisex

and more just masculine, outdoorsy.

And so it wasn't just the environment by any means.

It was you like relying upon the skill sets that I had, I

had all these design skills.

I could make this better even if I have none of that knowledge.

And then it's just been an evolution where I was looking into the,

like I wanted to do this in a green way, whatever that meant.

But then when looking and learning more along this process, it was maybe a

year and a half after I began focusing upon the area, I knew design and

making the bag the best way possible that I started to look into the

actual materials that would be used.

And at that time it was just unbelievable that I was being recommended if I wanted

to use wax cotton, wax canvas, to have that made, which is typically just made

in Britain, have it made and then sent over to Southeast Asia, have them make

it in the different facilities there, and then send it back, you know, where

I could then send it off to the world.

Again and just seems so, uh, irresponsible.

And so it was then that I really began to do quite a bit more diving into the

actual materials and their footprints.

And there's still, I mean, there's no black or white.

There isn't the perfect material.

Uh, it doesn't exist.

So it's all trying to figure out at this point of where Baxley is,

what is the best material in terms of footprint that I can be using.

As I'm hearing it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, for you specifically,

there was a transition from being, you know, designer, professional, loving

your work then to motherhood, then to, okay, what do I do now for me?

Mm-hmm.

And what that means in terms of, you know, it sounds like you

use your design skills to then workshop your way to the next step.

And, and it mm-hmm.

So it wasn't like, oh, I got this plan and I'm gonna do this

and I know what I'm gonna do.

It's like,

Who has that?

Yeah.

I mean, that would be great.

Well, there's an illusion.

I think a lot of people think successful people have that.

They're like, oh, I have this vision and I will make it happen.

As opposed to there's a, in a sense, there's a, there's a

little bit of struggle there.

It's like, ugh, what am I gonna do now?

And what can I do given the constraints that I have on my life?

And so, yeah, I don't know, like maybe I, um, and let me know if this

is going a bit too personal, but like, just that experience for you

of trying to essentially reevaluate what next and what you want to do.

Mm-hmm.

How did that feel?

And, and even just like that exercise of trying to figure out what's interesting.

It's like, how, how did you design that for yourself?

Sure.

I mean, yeah.

And it was, it was a really hard, miserable period of feeling so

unbelievably capable and having spent, you know, what, 18, 20 years in one career

and being at a wonderful level that I like achieved, and then not being able

to, 'cause I wanted to have connection to the kids and be part of their life,

uh, to be, yeah, just not finding the work that was rewarding by me and at

least not continually enough, and, and having to, to do this, but I mean, I,

I'm so happy that I've gone through that.

Um, and that I had the ability to, through the skills that I had learned,

through working for other people in terms of, uh, hosting workshops, trying to

figure out what are the questions that are most important to ask of myself.

And so I now do this workshop with other people at, at times 'cause

it is just a wonderful kind of soul searching, uh, realignment type activity.

And it doesn't necessarily bring the, the solution right away.

But when I came across that one backpack while preparing for an interview, when

I came across it and I spent two hours trying to, to wanting to actually buy this

bag and realizing it's not the right bag, I was able having just kind of identified

what are the things that I'm good at, what are the things I'm not good at, what are

the things I absolutely light me on fire?

I could just have a conversation about for, you know, an hour easily.

Um, you know, what are the assets that I might have, you know, being able to

identify those different categories and then kind of taking all those post-it

notes and kind of like matching them up in different ways and excluding the

ones that really were draining for me, thankfully, did not include emails.

Um, yeah, I was able to then, when the time was right, figure out

what was the right thing for me.

And so, yeah, it was really depressing.

Like I just felt so capable and with no path that I could figure out ahead

of me that would allow me to be a, an active parent, um, or engaged parent.

So let's dive in now a little bit in terms of going from, oh, I, I want to improve,

the way I heard is I wanna improve these bags 'cause they're not working for me and

I, if they're not working for me, they're not, might not be working for anyone else.

Well, um, so that in, uh, digital product design, so when you're creating an,

um, any kind of website that's selling an i an item, there's, you start with

the minimum viable product, and this is any, any startup of any size, even

if it's a service, you should start with the most basic item possible.

And so for me, I didn't have any sewing skills, but it, I didn't have a clear

enough idea of exactly what I wanted to go straight to spending a lot of money on

other people executing this idea for me.

So I literally just went to Fabric Land or whatever kind of fabric that was

on the High Street, grabbed a couple meters of just generic white canvas and,

um, measured up a backpack that I had nearby to just get loose measurements

like it's 14 centimeters wide, I'm gonna do it like 25 so I have a lot

of extra, and then started pinning up those first very early, like pre

prototypes, um, and then literally pinned them to my back with books in them,

just trying to gauge exactly loosely what size I should be making them.

It was ridiculous.

I have a few pictures of it.

That's absurd.

Yeah, and then I got out a sewing machine I had bought on eBay, uh, and then just

kind of figured out, going back and forth, I still like only do one stitch.

I just got out, go back and forth.

But I've done so, um, to, yeah, it, it, it, I, I've managed to do so

it, um, it's unbelievably difficult.

It was working with ba basically a, um, a 3D jigsaw puzzle.

Uh, and I didn't know if the pieces actually would meet up though, like

where a jigsaw puzzle, you have some trust that the company's actually

done it so they will match up.

I never had that trust in myself in terms of what I've cut out.

But, you can unpick, right?

You can undo anything that you've done.

So I would sew down two rows, unpick one row, sew down two rows, unpick one row.

Not intentionally, but uh, that was kind of the average of success I had.

But, um, I made that first bag and it took three months of evenings and

weekends and it was, I, I don't know how I continued to have that, that perseverance.

Like I just really believe that this met all of those things I was so excited

about and I could see that really coming together and that vision clearly.

And, um, yeah, and it was, I mean, it was amazingly rewarding

that the first time I used it.

Well, I mean, I finished it and I was like, oh my God, I've nailed it in one.

It is perfect and ready to go.

And it felt amazing.

And then like literally five minutes later, I'm like, actually

that pocket's way down too low.

It's like on the base, I'm never gonna bend all the way down onto the ground

on the tube to pick this thing I like.

Anyways, within five minutes I had a whole list of things that I wanted to change.

And so almost immediately, maybe a week later, I began cutting

out the material for version two, mark two, right into production.

That was gonna take three more months, and then Mark three took another three months.

But during those three months, I was able to be testing out the previous version.

And so even though it was my Fabric Land white canvas, it

still was sewn and, you know, um, held items that I needed to hold.

And, um, yeah, I had a, uh, fashion trend forecaster tapped me on my

shoulder, actually on the train one day being like, I love your bag.

Where did you get it?

And the most gratifying thing I think I've ever said was, I made it,

you know, really, really wonderful.

So that feedback like that, um, over those, over that year really

helped to give the, the energy and a lot of that drive for those

evenings and weekends I was giving up with the kids or, or friends.

I love what you said something around you can always unpick something like you can

always unpick and undo and then restart.

And that being a metaphor for the work, the idea, the things, like,

there's a big perception I feel with some people like, oh, the

first idea has to be the best idea.

'cause if I don't, it's gonna fail,.

As opposed to, you can always unpick it.

You can always mm-hmm.

Unravel it and start again.

And that for me is really interesting.

Another aspect I think I was linking to is just that I, I had a need for

creativity, a need for like, just making something and something that's your own

oh my God, yeah.

Power in your world nearly.

It's like, ah, this is mine.

I want to do it.

And that in the, you know, you talked about the perseverance, it felt, it

felt like this is like a, it was like something was coming through you in

terms of, you're like, ah, this is, this needs to be birthed somehow.

And then when you're going mark one, mark two, mark three, then I thought

about Iron Man and his different suits.

I don't know if anyone's interested in Marvel superheroes, but

first suit was a bit shoddy.

It was made out like bits of a missile.

And then you had Mark two, which was amazing and then mark three

from Fabric Land

from Fabric Land, exactly.

But that, you know, you said over a year, and for some people

that's like, oh my God, so long.

Oh my God.

Well, had I known that, I don't know that I would've had that energy either.

Like,

Yeah.

And It's because it's a physical thing, you know?

You have to, and like the, you know, one thing with digital things, it's,

there's, there's perception you can move faster, but with a physical

thing, like you're walking around, you've gotta feel how it works.

Like how there's something I think quite, um, I was gonna say human, but

there's something, because it's tactile, because it's kind of physical, because

it's not the speed of digital, it's something much more grounding I think

around that process that I'm feeling.

And, and also, I dunno how much more you learn because it isn't

quick, quick quick, there's a slow osmos osmotic process to it.

Mm-hmm.

And learning the skills.

I don't know.

We, we talk about, I like to talk about entrepreneurship as a journey of

self-discovery or spiritual journey.

Mm-hmm.

On that journey of a year, you know, did you feel you learned

much about yourself in terms of patience or clarity or whatever?

I wouldn't have actually thought that this was connected, but I, I

was a violinist for a long time.

And I mean, you practice that phrase 50 times and that phrase will be fine.

And I suppose that kind of dedication, that, it's only in hindsight that I

can't believe that I did that, and what I got out of that is, is huge.

I'm able to understand better how to create a design because I understand

the limitations of that pattern will have and that actually that extra

pocket right there, just a nice extra pocket, no, that involves another

like three hours or an hour and a half or whatever of time because of

this particularly intricate thing that I've created, 'cause it'd be nice.

Um, you know, I, I'm able to understand the limitations for

the people who are producing it.

Yeah, it, it, it wasn't something that I enjoyed doing.

It wasn't, it wasn't fun.

Oh, I'm gonna go upstairs into the loft now and have fun sewing and unpicking

and sewing and unpicking again.

It, but it was so gratifying getting to, to say, I made that,

that was one of my post-it notes, the things that I really wanted.

I wanted the, the ability to say I made that.

And even though though I'm not producing the bags myself anymore, thank God

I am really, really proud of what I've created in a conceptual way.

Uh, I'm curious about you linking it to violin practice.

I'm trying to learn the piano again.

I used to play it when I was a child and I'm trying to learn it again.

And, um, my teacher was saying, chunk up the bits and just repeat

that bit and again, and again and again until you got it.

And then move on to the next one.

And, and there's a, there's a, it's painful, but there's a discipline

required to just keep on doing that.

And then there's a muscle memory, an instinct that suddenly gets

you, you start to cultivate through that because after a while you're

not even looking at the notes.

It's just mm-hmm.

One thing follows the other.

And so I'm, I'm wondering as well, with the unpicking and the stitching and the

unpicking and the stitching, it suddenly feels more natural as opposed to, forced?

I don't know how that, and, and an intuition around bags that you

may have cultivated through that.

Well, I suppose with anything, there's this confidence that you get with

the number of times you do it, right?

And, um, similarly the more you're with something, the more

you know that it doesn't matter.

You can always undo whatever it is, right?

And there's very little in life that you can't undo.

And so, yeah, I guess it's just the confidence now.

I mean, with canvas, of course, if you make that whole, that whole for wax

canvas, it's thick it's like leather.

You can't undo the whole, so for the high level of execution, of course there needs

to be a degree of, of perfection there.

But that's not my area, thankfully.

Those are the people who are amazing and that's their realm

is to be perfectionists in that.

But even if they were to mess up, I can still use that for other ID ideas.

Like there, there isn't a mess up really.

And I think that's an interesting mindset to, to acquire.

In this journey, that, there's a perception that could be linear.

All right.

Have an idea.

Make the prototype, make sure someone pays for it, scale the fuck out of

it, and it's always gets messy at some point and not feeling like you, it's

all done and you can't unpick and start again, or pivot or try something new.

The word resilience came up for me when you were talking about just being

able to go up, and you said it wasn't easy, but you still persisted, and

then you get to a point, I made this after hard work after a year I made it.

And how that, you talked about confidence.

I think that confidence also adds to the resilience to then

be able to like, keep on going.

And I, I wanted to touch on, uh, Mark's question here.

Um, he was saying when something takes a long time to put out into the world,

the journey can be so gratifying.

But I talk a lot about the difficulties of continued belief.

What's helped you continue to believe in what you are doing, Lyndsay?

I suppose because the things that I'm related to, that I'm most

passionate about, design and the environment, are the things that I've

been passionate about my whole life.

So this is the best way I know at present for me to be able to touch other people's

lives and make some sort of difference.

I'd love to be able to make a greater difference to a greater number of people,

but with the tools and the skillsets I have, this is right now the best way.

that's not to say that there aren't pivots involved in the future, um, unknown.

But with that being the vision, it, it is hard, no question, I completely understand

that this, this question of staying the course, 'cause it can be a hard course.

But I mean, for me it's, it's very easy, every time I log onto the Guardian,

BBC, New York Times, whatever, I mean, I have my, my choice of horrible

climate articles to be reading.

And, um, I mean, that's a tangent of a conversation because it is,

we are so little in what we can do.

But, um, I had, uh, recently been made aware of the kind of one of those

few magic pills that you can do that, uh, really can affect the climate,

which is to be consider shifting, um, pensions towards green pensions.

Similarly, your bank accounts and mortgage, like anywhere where there's

a lot of money just being held, moving that to a very responsible sources or

places, that, it can have so much impact.

The reason I'm bringing that up is because that was something

I was able to share through my newsletter and, and that's huge.

Like, so that is like, sure, I've gratefully sold some bags recently and

that can help me and I'm doing it in a way that's the least damaging I can think

of right now, but that has the impact that is really related to my vision.

So things like that continue to help me keeping that momentum up.

It was, it was interesting that whole, what I heard you say was around,

uh, I wish I could do more, have more impact, but at the same time I

also sense the level of acceptance and presence with where you are at.

And, you know, there's a, and then thinking about, okay, maybe not

through the bags, but the bags seem to represent a very core

need for you to create something.

Mm-hmm.

I made this and it's aligned with my values.

And there's potentially other ways that you can spread this message around

sort of environment and sustainability.

And you touched on the newsletter and the ways to essentially, uh, the way

I was gonna describe is create impact at scale without burning out, without,

you know, as a one person with a voice and an idea how you can do that.

And correct me if I'm wrong, In my head, it was like, one hand is

like, I make bags and I'd write a newsletter to be able to sell the bags.

And then what then I heard, so it was like, like I write this

newsletter and I sell bags.

And it is like, felt like a lot of the, there's a lot of energy

and passion and newsletter bit.

So I'd be curious to just, the starting point with the newsletter and how your

relationship to the newsletter's evolved.

Yeah, it's, it's very much exactly as you said, it was a complete

180 between bags and newsletter.

The newsletter.

So I suppose I had done a few prototypes at this point.

I had no newsletter.

'cause I mean, like, I didn't even have a, a product.

I, uh, had a company name I think.

I don't think I was registered or anything as yet.

But I was chatting with a friend, um, who I was working with a colleague

and, uh, I had a need for a survey, and felt like I was going to just write on

Facebook, be like, Hey, fill out my survey please to figure out, you know, what

kind of items you need in a backpack.

'cause it's been very subjective so far.

And my friend challenged me to do this on video.

And he said, you know, if you really want to do this, you've gotta do

a selfie video and just, or maybe not selfie, but like a video of you

asking this, it'll go so much further.

And of course I just was, I just, I don't, this is so outta my comfort

zone and I, I still, I, I hate, I'm like still the primary face

behind Baxley and in all the photos.

And I hate being behind a camera.

But I did it and, and it, it, yeah, it, uh, had greater reach people, well,

also people like to help, you know.

So asking for people's help so much can really, especially when you have

a dream and you have this idea and your voice is kind of shaking 'cause

you're nervous 'cause you really believe, and it, you know, it, it's a

really is a wonderful, genuine, like that's the start of authenticity there.

But yeah, just asking that plea and, and just people did share that and,

and that created my first, I mean all that feedback, which is wonderful,

um, validating for the most part, but then also insightful in other ways in

terms of the bag that I was developing.

But also just that first list.

You know, I asked at the end, do you wanna continue to follow the journey

and basically be signed up to my new, my Yet to be Launched newsletter?

And then, um, yeah, wrote that first newsletter.

But what was wonderfully lucky was that I had done that video

plea and that was so first person that's not behind any company.

And so, I was able to write it signed Lyndsay, and that was the

most liberating thing I've ever done.

Um, I was able to just be like, So I don't know what's going on, this is my idea.

This is kind of what I like to do, no idea how it's gonna work out.

And so those early newsletters were really, I'm still trying

to find a manufacturer.

I'm still trying to figure out what the materials are.

Is this gonna be the right manufacturer?

Oh, I'm so excited.

And no, it's not at all.

And the prices have come in and they're horrible and I don't

know what to do about this.

So like there was, it was really wonderful getting to share

in real time this journey.

And so many people really enjoyed that period, particularly

what's been fascinating.

Like I really enjoyed writing that at that time.

And I was religious about writing it every week, and that was a really

wonderful exercise to get into it.

And then it launched and I was able to use that whole kind of

platform for, for launching.

Then like, I think a year later, people stayed with it for a year

without it existing, which is amazing.

But it's, it's evolved so much though because I can't continue doing that

same kind of evolutionary journey.

So the content has completely changed, but, um, my relationship to answer your

question though, is, is totally changed.

It had started with this idea of it being the most exhausting thing, and then it

was something I really enjoyed, but it was a distraction from having to bring

together this bag for the first time ever and a million different elements.

Um, I don't know how many components are in the bag right now, but like, let's say

22 different items need to be sourced.

It's, it's a huge, huge number, um, especially when you're wanting some

degree of transparency for each item.

So, it was totally daunting and then it was really quite nice, but, but a little

bit distracting, but really kind of nice.

Um, and then I guess maybe around that launch time started to

realize like, actually I kind of really enjoy this thing.

Like this is, this is a lot of fun.

And then since then, beginning to realize what kind of impact it could

have beyond just a marketing tool.

One of the things that we talk about with, uh, our community and people

particularly do this Vision 2020 program we're talking about yesterday,

this idea of working out loud.

And it felt like that first period was you just sharing the journey,

sharing the story as you're making it, the product isn't even done yet and

you're still sharing the struggles.

So there's, there's very much this, uh, initial period of like, it's

nearly sounded like a, a avid a diary, basically, this is what's going on.

This is the journey.

I'm, I'm on.

It was.

And balancing that with also designing the bag and doing all the sourcing.

So, and being a mother and all the other stuff, life admin that comes your way.

So it, it sounded exhausting, but now it's, you're saying it's turned

into, um, a platform, it sounds for you to just share your thoughts and

ideas and, and, and, and perspectives.

So yeah.

Well, you know, one of the questions we were thinking is like how you

found, what, is it helpful about having a newsletter now for you?

Well, I suppose, I mean, just still along the same lines.

So it is the place I'm able to do my best to change minds and bring awareness

to others about how wonderful life can be without more purchases, basically.

And the irony of course.

And then occasionally I can sell more items for people to purchase.

Um, so I mean, there is of course going to be like, I can't have a

business without a degree of sales.

So there, I'm trying to limit that in terms of the salesy

nature of the newsletter.

Um, and for the most part, I'm trying to just have the main newsletter, the

goods, uh, be just about inspiration and the story, the journey, and then have

separate newsletters that only come out maybe once a month at most, um, that

are the ones that are related to sales.

Yeah.

So there's a real, for want of a better term, a kind of a strategic

approach to not be always selling, but at the same time not neglecting

the fact that you are a business and you need to sell bags, and that's how

you do that in a way that feels right.

And that and that balance of trying to understand how best to communicate

with, uh, your people who sign up to a newsletter without annoying them.

Maybe share in your opinion, way the ways newsletters get done

wrong and, and how people can maybe just make mistakes with it.

So I subscribe to so many newsletters.

I'm a complete junkie at present, and I am have to, of course, then also be

very good about whittling out the ones that just are not connecting with me.

And I'll let them go for a month or so, and then if I'm just not reading

them, they, uh, become unsubscribed.

and I have a separate email account just for that, so they don't bog me

down with every my standard email.

But, the emails that I don't like are all sales.

So those are all the big corporations.

I really just don't wanna sign up to Birkenstocks.

As much as I love Birkenstocks, I don't wanna be sold shoes that I don't need.

I'll go to them when I need it.

That is as corporate and un me or like un like not signed by an individual if it

was by, even a director of sales at, you know, Birkenstock then sure, perhaps so.

Um, there's a company, A Good, I think is what they're called is,

and, and they are trying to do that dance, and they, they are very much

environmentally conscious brand.

And yeah, they, they are doing an interesting job of combining big

company with, um, that kind of personal.

But what I've done to figure out kind of what is not successful and

what is successful by subscribing to so many things, it's what do I

relate to in each different email.

If it's too hard to read, that's a big challenge.

If it's just a, a light gray or a midtone gray.

Just always be thinking of somebody being, this is becoming as a designer,

of course, but somebody who's either 80 years old or eight years old.

Can they read and can they make their way around a newsletter?

Is it big enough?

Like is there legibility, um, structure.

Is it always going to have like an expectation that somebody can, can

find their way around the newsletter?

I, I like this part.

I don't like this part or this, it's just one part.

Seth Godin, the shorter it is, the better.

I love Seth Godin's blogs.

I'm probably don't read it actually if it's too big.

'cause I like nice simple insights that he gives.

Um, consistency.

Consistency is the number one thing, and it is, at times in my life, I've

had some, uh, challenges coming up and I just am not able to be consistent.

But that is a big, big problem.

You've, you've gotta have that consistency.

Even if it's once a month, that's fine, but just, um, or once a quarter.

But, uh, you will always get unsubscribes on an, on any email

sending, as I'm sure you're aware.

Um, and so the safest thing is to not ever send them out, but you,

there's no, no value in that, right?

And you'll get more unsubscribes, the least, the less consistent you are.

So if you're just consistent, it's a nice, uh, attainable balance.

And so if you're consistent, people also then are, be able to,

are able to then buy into your brand and understand expectations.

They say they'll do this at this time, they do this at this time.

Peace and Fable, um, is a newsletter, just kind of a rambling,

lovely links and inspiration.

And they've been doing that for a few years and they send it

at five o'clock every Sunday.

Five o'clock on the, they don't miss that for anything.

And it's, it's really wonderful.

There's no reason that that is important at all in my life.

And do I read it at five o'clock on Sunday?

No, and I do, look, I look forward to it exactly at that time.

No, but I really love being able to, to just know it will be there at that time.

When you're sending it out every single week or biweekly or monthly

or whatever, quarterly, people understand that that's coming.

And that's not jarring to them.

If you don't sell or send any for a month and then all of a sudden you

send three in a week, let's say, 'cause you wanna sell this thing,

and oh my gosh, this is so cool.

Lemme just remind everybody I have to sell, sell.

Or even not selling and just talking about it, it's intense, it's like, it's

like a neighbor who never comes by and then all of a sudden knocks on your

door every single day and you're like, what's going on with this neighbor?

I need to start hiding behind my door.

And so, might be a really friendly neighbor, but that's,

uh, that's really jarring.

And so you put up the flyer, don't knock on my door, or whatever it is.

There's something here also about, you said, no clear purpose.

So yeah, definitely.

No clear purpose is setting expectations, making sure that somebody knows what

they're about to get on that newsletter.

And I'm certainly still trying to define this as I grow in terms of longevity

of, of Baxley, how I want to be, what the type of content is that I'm sharing.

But it can be confusing.

Yeah.

If, if, am I getting a sale, like for, for other emails that

I get, is this a sales thing?

Like, am I supposed to be buying, is there a call to action here or is this just a

newsletter that I open up and I just know I just get inspiration on this always?

I just is just as clear inspiration.

James Clear has a fantastic newsletter as well along the lines of Seth Godin,

where he's just like, yeah, very clearly, three different ideas of his

own, three different ideas of other people's or quotes often, um, and then

clear calls to action to share this.

And then of course, by his book, I'm sure, Atomic Habits.

But it, it, yeah.

No, just nice clarity.

You know what?

You're gonna get that newsletter if I don't have time to read it, I know

what I'm missing out on as well.

But then there are other ones where like, uh, there's, I mean, I just, there's so

many newsletters that I love, like Dense Discovery is a huge one, very influential

to me in terms of striking a balance between just general inspiration of ideas,

links to cool content, but then also that sense of this is really an individual.

I know who this guy is and where he is coming from and his individual beliefs.

These are not representing a company.

This is just what he believes in.

It's beautiful being able to relate to somebody, everybody, right.

We, we want connection.

And the, the emails that I receive that I like the most are definitely

the ones that are the most connecting.

Another thing we were talking about was this idea of, uh, people

getting it wrong 'cause they're not doing any targeting or segmenting.

Maybe just elaborate a bit on that for people who don't even know.

Sure.

So targeting and segmenting is, uh, once you have a list already set up.

So it wouldn't be for starting out, but particularly now that I am now

established, I don't have that initial exciting, oh my gosh, every, every

single like weekly soap opera of what is going on with this journey, there

still is so much I'm figuring out.

And so there is a lot that I'm trying to share of, of the journey,

but it isn't quite at that as that dramatic level anymore more.

And so, um, I am trying to, uh, work with also selling product

again that I've sold before.

So, for example, the roll top is the first backpack that I designed and that's

when I just recently closed sales on.

And it, um, There are people who have been waiting for years and actually over years

now, they're waiting to think, actually this could be the right bag for me.

But there are other people who are just, it's just not the right bag for,

and that's completely fine as well.

I don't want to be aggressively selling this bag to the people who just don't

want to, like, that's not that bag, but this other one might be perfect for

them and they just don't wanna hear it.

Um, so I've now started to do segmentation and it is just really,

really wonderful being able to write to a more limited audience.

I think maybe there was a question earlier at the very beginning where, how do you

speak to all these different people?

And so some people have been here since the beginning and they know my backstory

and they know the whole kind of journey and all the love that's gone into the bag.

Then there are people who just aren't interested and there are people

who are interested but they don't know anything or they know about

Baxley or they don't know whatever.

And so the more you can begin to just target and speak to targeting

seems too aggressive, but it's just like speaking to the correct people.

So, it allows for you then also to go into the metrics and the technical

side, and all of a sudden you have far higher open rates because these

people are actually the right audience for the content that you're giving.

The higher the metrics that you can be getting in general also allow

you to be avoiding the spam filters from people's email addresses.

So there's kind of a whole kind of technical dance that gets really boring,

I can imagine.

But important.

Imagine it gets a bit hard for some when it starts getting a technical side, but

I, I'm appreciating there's a bit, there's a level of work required in order to

identify the different groups within your newsletter or within the list, but then

there's another, uh, uh, it sounds like a freedom that you then get because then

you know exactly what you're saying to these people and you, there isn't that

anxiety of like, oh, am I bugging someone?

you know, the people who are gonna get this want this, people who want

get that, want that as opposed to scatter gun, oh my God, how many

people are unsubscribing from this?

Because this isn't particularly relevant to them.

One of the most important things is how, how powerful and unsubscribe

is, and it's constantly trying to reposition it in my mind, where

unsubscribes are a wonderful thing.

So each email that I write has to be the best email I possibly can because somebody

can hit unsubscribe anytime, and it's practically impossible to get somebody to

resubscribe unless it's been an accident.

And so it's gotta be amazing.

And if it, even if it's amazing, but it's to the wrong person,

then that's a problem, right?

So if I've just been aggressive, like marketing or emailing, just non-marketing,

but just emailing too frequently, it's, it's a problem for that particular person.

So, yeah, so segmentation's really helping with, with that.

Um, But yeah, each email has to be the best.

And then if somebody doesn't subscribe, I can note it's because

they just aren't the right audience.

Um, so Mark was asking, I think we were gonna touch on this is like,

um, which email marketing platform ticks all the boxes for you?

And I know we talked about you're gonna share the things

that don't work at the moment.

Yeah.

And what is the perfect solution that you'd like for yourself?

Oh, God.

So I, I still haven't found my perfect solution.

Um, I'm hoping, I'm about to try out Campaign Monitor soon,

um, which looks promising.

Uh, but I've said that before.

Uh, I started with MailChimp, which I loathe.

, I can't believe they've been so successful for such a poor product.

Because like, like they have a good, a good product and works well.

But to actually do anything other than just write the newsletter, to look

in the metrics or anything, you have to be doing that as profession and

know exactly where to be clicking, 'cause it's very unuser friendly.

Um, good price points when you're really starting out.

But then just, um, as soon as you need more details, it's very

expensive and very hard to use.

Flowdesk is a nice, clean, clear one.

Very beautiful, uh, newsletters.

Um, as a designer I have a harder time giving up all that design control,

so that would wind up being the challenge that I moved away from.

But it's a single price, no matter what size audience

you have or what the need is.

So there was a beauty in Flowdesk.

Um, then I moved over to Email Octopus, uh, where I currently am, um, which

I think like eight pounds a month.

Like, it's, it's so inexpensive.

Um, very small team and they host some huge, huge names.

But, uh, isn't, isn't quite right for me.

It's, it's just a little glitch and you need to have a whole bunch

of pre-populated news litters.

But I think I'm going into perhaps information that's not

the most useful for people.

What I would love myself and what I'm constantly looking for are

the, what you see is what you get.

So I'm able to be designing, using templates, clearly a lot of automation.

So if somebody signs up, they automatically receive the, the

hello email or however many sequences I need to be sending out.

Having sequences, a hello sequence is one of the most amazing tools

if you're able to set that up.

Just in terms of tips in general.

Um, so like the day one they, somebody receives and says, hello, this is who

I am, lemme tell you about what you're to be expecting over the next week.

And then there on out, day two is, I'd like to give you one amazing insight that

I have to share about whatever it is.

You know, those sequences can be so incredible in terms of

connecting you with that person who's writing behind the scenes.

Other things I would love for my, uh, platform?

Analytics, like the, the more you start writing, the more the statistics matter.

Wanting to know where people are clicking.

Um, not just that they're clicking, but then what links they're clicking

and who, like being able to compare those metrics as much as possible.

And the statistics over the different users, how they're reading and being

able to really segment again, you know, so that I send an email to people who

opened that one and clicked links in this other one and things like that.

There's something here around, balancing the energy and excitement for writing

the emails and also being able to use, make it effective and not feel

like you're just talking to the void and not really listening and sensing.

Essentially there's thing, an element here of just sensing what's working,

what isn't working, rather than just write, write, write, write,

write, and not really understanding what's, what's working, what's not.

There's a quick question here actually.

Given that you've moved around a lot, Kim was asking, she loads

MailChimp as well, but moving to anything else feels overwhelming

or is overwhelming in her case.

How, how have you found that transition process?

Or do you have any quick tips for people around moving from one to another?

MailChimp is so miserable and big that most email platforms

will host a way for you to shift.

So they'll be like, click here to move from MailChimp and we'll do it for you.

So usually that's not so hard.

Kim, also, I'm currently or about, was looking at Convert, um, Campaign Monitor,

but, uh, ConvertKit just came up as well.

MailerLite certainly is, uh, another big one.

Uh, there are many, many options out there for different people and, and

also in terms of how big your team is, if you have a team or if it's

one person or two people, different strengths for different, different needs.

So there's a, it sounds like some platforms will help you automate

that process of migrating, um, your newsletter list across.

Is there anything practical around the telling people about it or just

under, is people understanding that you're moving, that in your experience

is helpful or does it matter?

They don't even care whether you're on different platform or not.

Hopefully

they won't ever know.

Uh, I definitely had to move mid-launch one time, and this is why I hate,

uh, uh, a mail, MailChimp so much.

But, um, uh, I had to move mid-launch and it didn't go well, and all of a

sudden people got like four emails within two days and it was mortifying and

unsubscribes and, you know, all the rest.

Uh, hopefully they should not know.

So when I've changed a second time, then they haven't, haven't been aware of that.

Um, it's not, I mean, yeah, a heads up perhaps, like a little

postscript, heads up, I'm about to move platforms could be one.

And if somebody's reading the postscript, then that means that

they actually are an engaged user.

Somebody who wouldn't be, uh, heard, somebody who would be one who sees, uh,

perhaps small changes and notices them.

Um, but separately, Carlos, you had asked a moment ago about energy in

terms of writing, and I did just kind of wanna say that what's changed for

me, I mean, I am now able to view.

The newsletter as a platform, the word that you used earlier.

Uh, and that's really important for me in terms of impact and very

much, uh, my vision with Baxley.

But what's draining is when there is no plan.

And so the more I can have and plan, and the more that it can feel

genuine, what I'm reading, writing, the faster and easier it is to create.

So for me, I always have now kind of like a, an intro area where it's just kind

of like, what have I been thinking about lately or what has inspired me lately?

And to kind of think through this area and, and hopefully that's something that

I'm, is not just subjective to me alone, but how can this relate to other people.

And maybe it's impact related, maybe it's, it's not, but it's

just how people are living.

And so it's not, um, a macro scale impact, but it's just micro, it's how we live in

our lives better, in a more enjoyable way.

Second part though is just all in the studio.

So it's, it is that update.

So it's that continuation of that journey.

Like this is what's going on.

And sometimes there are positive things.

Sometimes they're, oh my gosh, there's this frustration 'cause this

email host is driving me up the wall or, or something along those lines.

And then finally I end with, uh, a whole collection of links.

And those links are very important to me.

Those are the most, uh, you know, time consuming 'cause I'm needing

to gather all the links that I want to be sharing onwards.

And I don't want to be sending off duds.

'cause then people will read the newsletter less and be

more likely to unsubscribe.

Clear pattern and purpose I'm hearing there in terms of just to make it easier

and more energizing, um, to do, um.

Yeah.

Uh, I'm conscious of time, but I would like to see if we can rattle

through some of these questions that

Okay.

Oh, sorry.

So quick fire answers.

First one is what's been the most successful method of reaching new

people and gaining new signups?

Events, hands down events.

For me, it depends upon where you are and what kind of budget

you would have for advertising.

The more money in advertising, the more return you can get.

But social media is just miserable.

Um, I mean particularly, particularly right now with Instagram, that's a very

different beast altogether this week.

But, um, in the last few months, even Instagram, like I've, I've just

not been using it nearly as much.

I can continue to be talking to my existing audience and get some more

followers, but nothing of any note.

And it's very expensive really, in terms of conversions for

sales, for advertising there.

Google ads focus on the ss e o instead of the Google ads for signups.

Um, so honestly events and word of mouth and trying to knuckle down

on where are you most inspired by?

So I'm about to advertise on Dense Discovery.

They just send out a call today being like, Hey, you've signed up

to advertise on our newsletter.

I love reading, reading this guy's newsletter.

And I know that he has a big reach and I love his content.

So I think that because I, so enjoy his content, his newsletter

readers might be the same place.

So that, or podcasts, if you are a huge podcast listener, is that

aligned with your own audience?

You know, so maybe there all alternative ways that have much greater value.

Than, um, than the just the standard ads.

Um, particularly if you, have a smaller budget.

Next one.

It was, uh, back to John Paul.

He was asking about blogging as a, how much should a

newsletter be similar to a blog?

Yeah, I, I, I would recommend, so I, I, this is an area

that I've been wanting to do.

There's 8 million blog posts that I wanna be writing, and there's

just a limitation of time always.

So I, what I'm wanting to do, planning on doing is including part of it

in the, in the newsletter, but then the full amount in the, in the blog,

Another question.

Hopefully always getting that blog to link back to the signing out to the newsletter.

For anyone who isn't.

The newsletter is just the source of everything.

Everything should point to the newsletter.

Boom.

One last one.

Any other tip that you can give to Tom around encouraging people to sign up?

Uh, competitions.

Competitions.

Competitions, ooh.

A little bit harder now with social media being, uh, less organic, but

still, people like a competition.

And any sharing of lists.

So if you're able to do a competition or anything that partners up with

somebody else, so a collaboration using two different lists, a

newsletter, new lists that will grow your own newsletter, certainly.

Awesome.

Uh, an example of a competition that you've done?

So I've, I, I wanted to do a collaboration one this year, and then for, uh,

personal reasons I've ran outta time.

So, uh, wound up just doing the same thing that I'd done, uh, in the two previous

years, which is to have a competition around giving away one of the roll tops

that would be in the production run.

Um, so I used, uh, King Sumo, but also Glean does, does, uh, this.

I mean a lot, it's called viral giveaways.

Um, and with that, yeah, somebody signs up and the more times they share it on

here or there, the more entries they get in and, uh, the greater chance

that they would have of winning.

And the last one here is how often are you sending your newsletter?

Once a week at present.

Cool.

Nice set.

At least in terms of the

Done.

There we go, yeah.

Well, in terms of the goods.

And then at other times during launch periods, of course,

that's when I'm selling.

So I have the goods, which is my standard newsletter, and then

I'll have the sales newsletters.

And then when we get into segmentation, oh my God, it's, it's like I'm sending 8,000

newsletters, but not to the same people.

That'll be a future one.

How to manage segmentation on your newsletter without burning out.

Cool.

Um, any final words, Lyndsay, and any way that you'd like to point people?

Um, specifically we've shared your website, but is there anything

going on at the moment that you'd like people to know about?

As my parting gift, it is, yeah, just to write in a way that is so easy to write.

So write as you talk, write as you would write in your journal,

and, um, make sure that it gives value to the person reading it.

They'll enjoy living vicariously through you, or they are

learning something for you.

They're inspired or they're excited.

That's it.

Brilliant.

Thank you very much and I think there's something there, I'm going back to the

beginning of this conversation where you were spending time understanding what

is it that you really love, and what is it that you're really interested in?

What is it that's lighting you up?

And that being a good starting point to then be able to write more authentically.

Like you were saying, it's like write as if you are writing, it

feels like writing for yourself.

Mm-hmm.

Brilliant.

Thank you very much, Lyndsay.

I really enjoyed that.

Um, and it's always better without Lawrence, isn't it?

Oh,