1 0:00:02,166 --> 0:00:10,110 Speaker 1: You're listening to Cultivation Elevated, hosted by Michael Williamson, where we discuss vertical farming in the future of cannabis and food production. 2 0:00:10,581 --> 0:00:16,425 Speaker 1: You'll be learning key insights for vertical farming success from leading industry operators, growers and executives. 3 0:00:17,160 --> 0:00:25,689 Speaker 1: If you're a grower or owner looking to optimize your existing or new indoor cultivation facility, or anyone looking to cultivate more in less space, we've got you covered. 4 0:00:26,640 --> 0:00:29,006 Speaker 1: Cultivation Elevated, sponsored by Pip Particulture. 5 0:00:31,940 --> 0:00:35,951 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to another episode of Cultivation Elevated, sponsored by Pip Particulture. 6 0:00:36,140 --> 0:00:37,466 Speaker 2: I'm your host, michael Williamson. 7 0:00:37,680 --> 0:00:42,801 Speaker 2: I'm here in Berlin, germany, with Timo, general manager of Fluence, because we are in. 8 0:00:42,841 --> 0:00:43,242 Speaker 3: Germany. 9 0:00:43,483 --> 0:00:45,369 Speaker 3: I also want to introduce all of you in German. 10 0:00:46,883 --> 0:00:49,190 Speaker 3: Wunderschönen guten Morgen hier von ICBC in Berlin. 11 0:00:49,580 --> 0:00:50,564 Speaker 3: Ich freue mich auf das Interview. 12 0:00:52,343 --> 0:00:52,905 Speaker 2: Let's get it on. 13 0:00:53,026 --> 0:00:53,648 Speaker 2: Let's get it on. 14 0:00:54,240 --> 0:00:56,246 Speaker 2: So tell me a little bit about your role. 15 0:00:56,286 --> 0:00:58,211 Speaker 2: Before you were part of Fluence. 16 0:01:00,043 --> 0:01:22,063 Speaker 3: I have a background in economics, work for different companies and transformation projects and so on, and at one point I was hired by a big lighting company called Osram and they wanted to go into order culture and I was an innovation manager to bring the company into this segment and that at one point led to the acquisition of Fluence, which is nowadays part of the Zsignify family. 17 0:01:22,585 --> 0:01:30,880 Speaker 3: But yeah, so that was my journey of the last eight years in horticultural lighting and when did you start looking into horticultural lighting? 18 0:01:30,880 --> 0:01:34,010 Speaker 2: What year was that when you started the pivot into horticultural lighting? 19 0:01:34,500 --> 0:01:36,726 Speaker 2: So that was 2015,. 20 0:01:37,007 --> 0:01:38,070 Speaker 3: End of 2015. 21 0:01:38,920 --> 0:01:44,253 Speaker 3: And you know, back then, lighting LED lighting for crops was really special. 22 0:01:45,742 --> 0:01:52,434 Speaker 3: So back then, growing crops only was artificial light, was like space emissions. 23 0:01:52,701 --> 0:01:58,491 Speaker 3: It felt like two people right Nowadays it's totally accepted technology, adopted technology. 24 0:01:59,502 --> 0:02:02,451 Speaker 2: So, yeah, it was an interesting journey the last eight years. 25 0:02:02,820 --> 0:02:11,250 Speaker 2: I remember when Fluence came out with the full, with the spider, for the first time 2015-ish, and that was the first time that all growers really started paying attention. 26 0:02:11,360 --> 0:02:17,755 Speaker 2: They said that's interesting, Because before that it was like no LED, no LED, especially in flower. 27 0:02:17,835 --> 0:02:20,807 Speaker 2: They were like oh yeah, so yeah, you guys were disruptors. 28 0:02:20,960 --> 0:02:25,308 Speaker 2: And then we just watched the evolution of multi-tier lighting. 29 0:02:26,070 --> 0:02:29,545 Speaker 2: Approaches like PIP behind us here really take off in the States. 30 0:02:30,200 --> 0:02:35,452 Speaker 2: So 2015 in Europe there's not much, it's just starting to come together. 31 0:02:35,600 --> 0:02:38,188 Speaker 2: How many people are like operating at that point? 32 0:02:39,000 --> 0:02:46,274 Speaker 3: So back then there were, I would say like maybe actually only one legal cannabis producer. 33 0:02:46,600 --> 0:02:52,644 Speaker 3: There was one medical producer in the Netherlands, okay, also in Israel. 34 0:02:52,664 --> 0:02:53,105 Speaker 3: They were. 35 0:02:53,266 --> 0:02:56,173 Speaker 3: They always, it was always allowed to do research in cannabis. 36 0:02:56,220 --> 0:02:59,423 Speaker 3: So there was also a couple of things going, but that's it. 37 0:02:59,604 --> 0:03:01,122 Speaker 3: On campus 2015,. 38 0:03:01,162 --> 0:03:04,630 Speaker 3: There were no legal markets in Europe. 39 0:03:05,440 --> 0:03:17,785 Speaker 3: Of course, greenhouses all over the place especially in the Netherlands, the highest concentration of high-tech greenhouses in the world and also there was really hard to disrupt the old technology and get LED in because the initial investment were higher back then. 40 0:03:18,900 --> 0:03:22,149 Speaker 3: Nowadays, no one in this area would buy an old technology. 41 0:03:22,329 --> 0:03:23,272 Speaker 3: It's totally disrupted. 42 0:03:23,440 --> 0:03:30,673 Speaker 2: Yeah, and also, I imagine, by law and just by the mentality of efficiencies of Germans. 43 0:03:32,000 --> 0:03:33,546 Speaker 2: It seems like it's a legacy technology. 44 0:03:33,566 --> 0:03:44,548 Speaker 3: You're absolutely right, and the European Union is doing the lawmaking in regards to phasing out old technology to go and upgrade to more efficient lighting. 45 0:03:44,880 --> 0:03:47,227 Speaker 3: You see it in all different lighting verticals. 46 0:03:48,220 --> 0:03:54,488 Speaker 3: At one point they said okay, you cannot use fluorescent, you cannot use your halogen or whatever technology and need to go to LED. 47 0:03:55,220 --> 0:03:57,956 Speaker 2: And I talked to people internationally, outside of Germany. 48 0:03:59,723 --> 0:04:02,269 Speaker 2: Germany is a very important part of their dialogue. 49 0:04:02,289 --> 0:04:03,312 Speaker 2: It's a big part of their plan. 50 0:04:03,601 --> 0:04:10,250 Speaker 2: So I talk to people in South Africa or Australia or anywhere in Europe they always talk about we hope that we can export to Germany someday. 51 0:04:10,841 --> 0:04:22,172 Speaker 2: And so can you talk to me about why Germany is kind of seems to be where everything is funneling to, or the center of the cannabis industry for Europe and also for, it seems like, the globe? 52 0:04:22,500 --> 0:04:35,430 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think the one part of the answer is definitely Germany has 83, 84 million inhabitants, so it's the biggest society population within Europe. 53 0:04:36,701 --> 0:04:39,116 Speaker 3: So it's the biggest single addressable market. 54 0:04:39,519 --> 0:04:44,510 Speaker 3: Right, if they go, you know, medical or hopefully a later date of recreation. 55 0:04:44,710 --> 0:04:51,190 Speaker 3: You have a big addressable market and also a lot of you know if things happening in Germany. 56 0:04:51,330 --> 0:04:56,009 Speaker 3: You often have a kind of domino effect because it's the biggest domino false, the rest false easier. 57 0:04:56,400 --> 0:05:01,672 Speaker 3: So if you have a good Macoto market there, you can expand beyond. 58 0:05:02,500 --> 0:05:05,450 Speaker 3: So that is a couple of reasons. 59 0:05:05,520 --> 0:05:12,213 Speaker 3: But right now from a market point of view, the biggest medical cannabis market in Europe is Germany. 60 0:05:13,081 --> 0:05:19,960 Speaker 3: So with that it makes sense and that's why also you see that a lot of the ecosystem is in Germany. 61 0:05:20,100 --> 0:05:24,530 Speaker 3: So you see a lot of startups and you know coming and popping up in Germany. 62 0:05:24,630 --> 0:05:30,839 Speaker 3: For the industry it just just makes sense, develops itself as a hub right now for Europe. 63 0:05:30,940 --> 0:05:32,747 Speaker 2: And talk to me a little bit about the German program. 64 0:05:32,960 --> 0:05:37,011 Speaker 2: So there's about 300,000 registered patients on the medical program. 65 0:05:37,461 --> 0:05:39,500 Speaker 2: But it sounds like I've heard different, conflicting things. 66 0:05:39,600 --> 0:05:47,451 Speaker 2: Some say it's easy to get a medical license for as a patient, and other people tell me it's quite difficult because I think you do not have chronic pain as an option. 67 0:05:47,701 --> 0:05:48,966 Speaker 2: Yes, you're right. 68 0:05:49,480 --> 0:06:20,312 Speaker 3: So the indications for what you can get prescribed are very limited and it must be a very severe issue, like multidisciplinary and epilepsy and other things, and then you get it prescribed and it's opening up for so there are more things where you can get it, but generally it's difficult to get it and it's more that also the doctors don't know how to prescribe it. 69 0:06:20,981 --> 0:06:22,065 Speaker 3: So that makes it challenging. 70 0:06:22,661 --> 0:06:30,409 Speaker 3: And still in Germany the far majority of what is prescribed is flour and you need to hit special thresholds. 71 0:06:31,080 --> 0:06:41,592 Speaker 3: You cannot have you know, your product must be of high consistency and some strains just drop off because they don't hit the thresholds the next time and then they're not available. 72 0:06:42,000 --> 0:06:44,789 Speaker 3: But doctors don't prescribe here strains. 73 0:06:47,788 --> 0:06:55,053 Speaker 3: That is very unique and that's difficult because if it's not available then the patient comes back to the doctor and it's complicated. 74 0:06:56,484 --> 0:06:57,507 Speaker 2: And the doctors don't like it. 75 0:06:58,820 --> 0:07:01,544 Speaker 3: But yeah, you can back through Some 3-in-1-thousand patients. 76 0:07:02,086 --> 0:07:10,323 Speaker 3: Roughly 25 tons have been imported to Germany and 15 tons ended up in the pharmacy. 77 0:07:11,071 --> 0:07:21,423 Speaker 3: Just to give you a to put it in relation, Israel, which is like 10% of the society and have like below 200,000 patients, had 40 tons. 78 0:07:21,730 --> 0:07:22,773 Speaker 3: So factors three more. 79 0:07:22,853 --> 0:07:26,482 Speaker 3: So you see that they consume also more per patient. 80 0:07:26,971 --> 0:07:32,690 Speaker 3: So I think there's still room in the amount of patients in Germany, but also how much they get prescribed. 81 0:07:33,192 --> 0:07:37,690 Speaker 2: Now, another thing too is if it doesn't go to the pharmacy, who would sell the product? 82 0:07:38,453 --> 0:07:40,279 Speaker 2: Only pharmacies allow, only pharmacies, right. 83 0:07:40,710 --> 0:07:44,621 Speaker 2: But also it's covered with by your country's universal healthcare. 84 0:07:44,991 --> 0:07:45,813 Speaker 2: Yes, you're absolutely right. 85 0:07:46,234 --> 0:07:51,690 Speaker 3: So the Czech Republic and Germany have by far the highest reimbursement rates. 86 0:07:52,393 --> 0:07:54,421 Speaker 3: There is in the medical, the patients. 87 0:07:54,521 --> 0:07:56,670 Speaker 3: Some are paying for themselves and some get reimbursed. 88 0:07:57,412 --> 0:08:02,206 Speaker 3: Depends a little bit how the insurance companies are seeing how severe the issue is. 89 0:08:02,647 --> 0:08:05,413 Speaker 3: But yeah, there's higher reimbursement and that is cool. 90 0:08:05,433 --> 0:08:17,484 Speaker 3: So normally if we see other markets where you often had first the medical market and then the recreation come in, you see that medical is plateauing and then declining because the recreation is heating up. 91 0:08:18,272 --> 0:08:22,650 Speaker 3: Here because of the reimbursement, it's a little bit more protective if you get it for free kind of. 92 0:08:23,152 --> 0:08:26,650 Speaker 3: That is definitely one thing, but from a recreation side this takes a little bit. 93 0:08:27,372 --> 0:08:33,690 Speaker 2: So typically in the United States you have a medical program first, always, and it opens up the door for adult use or recreational. 94 0:08:34,271 --> 0:08:43,342 Speaker 2: But typically there'll be like a syntax on top of the adult use, so they make it a little bit more expensive, but maybe it's only 10 or 15% more expensive. 95 0:08:43,402 --> 0:08:47,562 Speaker 2: And so some people say I don't need my medical card, I don't want to pay the card, I'll just. 96 0:08:47,844 --> 0:08:48,670 Speaker 2: You know, I'll get a little bit. 97 0:08:48,870 --> 0:08:56,959 Speaker 2: But when you're talking about reimbursing 70 plus percent of the medicine, like you said, that would be a very good reason to maintain your medical. 98 0:08:57,300 --> 0:08:59,281 Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the things that I think is interesting. 99 0:08:59,381 --> 0:09:09,690 Speaker 2: Coming from a medical background, I worked for a buyer before being in cannabis, and so what's interesting is that the doctors are prescribing a single cultivar strain for ailments. 100 0:09:10,051 --> 0:09:29,604 Speaker 2: But we also are learning that when you consume the same cultivar over and over again, you build a tolerance no different than alcohol or opiates or anything like that, and so it's interesting to hear that they're prescribing single, because we do see that there's an additional entourage effect by having different varieties. 101 0:09:29,644 --> 0:09:30,125 Speaker 2: I understand. 102 0:09:30,446 --> 0:09:36,622 Speaker 2: So that's really, yeah, that's interesting and as a cultivator, it's extremely challenging to grow a product. 103 0:09:37,072 --> 0:09:44,261 Speaker 2: You can grow a product harvest by harvest, but to be consistent with it, especially within like a pharmacology guidelines, I imagine it's quite challenging. 104 0:09:44,342 --> 0:10:03,934 Speaker 3: It is, and we are seeing that right now the product which is ending up in German pharmacies is really coming around the boat New Zealand, australia, south Africa, lisutu, south America, canada and then in Europe from you know, portugal and you name it really global supply chain. 105 0:10:04,294 --> 0:10:22,660 Speaker 3: But you often see that a grower will divide there and then it drops out and it's extremely important for the pharmacies to have, you know them available longer time but also have alternative strains which are similar, you know, in TSC and CBD values, so that you can change that. 106 0:10:22,701 --> 0:10:23,763 Speaker 3: You don't get into. 107 0:10:23,804 --> 0:10:26,090 Speaker 3: The issue with intolerance is to him need to increase. 108 0:10:26,191 --> 0:10:38,606 Speaker 3: See the amount you're taking over time so that the doctors have some possibilities possibilities right now I would say you have been doing pharmacies in Average like 150 to 170 strains right now available. 109 0:10:38,867 --> 0:10:46,647 Speaker 3: That's pretty good, but they are also all very high TSC, so it's also interesting that it still takes a little bit. 110 0:10:46,730 --> 0:10:52,978 Speaker 3: There's only a couple of strains where you have a balance THC, bd or a lower THC and so on. 111 0:10:53,298 --> 0:11:03,891 Speaker 3: I think there's definitely room in the market and patients would like to have that, sure, but right now there's still a lot of I want more and mentality. 112 0:11:04,132 --> 0:11:07,760 Speaker 3: You know high TSC, but I think this is something about. 113 0:11:07,820 --> 0:11:23,794 Speaker 3: You know, the longer the market is Legal or available, that you will see that there are also other preferences and that is something I'm personally very excited about that there are more alternatives than to get really high TSC full-to-large, sure. 114 0:11:25,051 --> 0:11:27,255 Speaker 2: No, no concentrates or attractions. 115 0:11:27,816 --> 0:11:29,499 Speaker 3: yet yeah, they are. 116 0:11:29,519 --> 0:11:36,380 Speaker 3: It's a little bit of tricky because, you know, when I say medical cannabis, it's like really medical chemistry. 117 0:11:36,421 --> 0:11:39,150 Speaker 3: Flower, it's not pharmaceutical cannabis, right, correct? 118 0:11:39,391 --> 0:11:39,611 Speaker 3: Yeah. 119 0:11:40,093 --> 0:11:48,283 Speaker 3: And the more the product is Getting into the category of pharmaceutical being a bill, being a think-sharing, whatnot, yeah, and you have. 120 0:11:49,172 --> 0:12:09,410 Speaker 3: You need to go to More amounts of clinical trials and you need to build much more evidence and that is extremely time-costing, intensive and right now there's only really one, one classic pharmaceutical Canada's product you can get right on you and the prime majority is flower, yeah what is that? 121 0:12:09,610 --> 0:12:09,971 Speaker 3: What is that? 122 0:12:10,031 --> 0:12:14,260 Speaker 3: Pharmaceutical products from GW pharmaceuticals like a Sativa. 123 0:12:14,440 --> 0:12:33,492 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, yeah, okay, I'm sure you followed along with Canada and we saw that they had a big rise and then a big fall, and it was a combination of, in my opinion, some regulatory issues with health Canada also, that evaluations were based on what you could, how much you could cultivate, but not how much you could sell. 124 0:12:33,813 --> 0:12:46,488 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we saw, you know, like 20 Hector greenhouses get erected, but they didn't have the outlets and they thought that they were going to export all this stuff and all of a sudden, there was a big bottleneck at the retail or wholesale level. 125 0:12:46,789 --> 0:12:55,993 Speaker 2: Yeah, what lessons do you think Europe can learn from a country like Canada's approach to international, if I you know? 126 0:12:56,013 --> 0:12:57,912 Speaker 3: the Right. 127 0:12:57,972 --> 0:13:13,570 Speaker 3: Now we are seeing the issue of Canada Coming to Europe because we are seeing Relatively low cost that many people have is coming into the new big market because there is such an oversupply which are at prices which are maybe partly under cost. 128 0:13:13,891 --> 0:13:16,918 Speaker 3: So that is destroying markets right now here. 129 0:13:16,938 --> 0:13:17,720 Speaker 3: So that's not good. 130 0:13:18,121 --> 0:13:27,263 Speaker 3: So my learning is more I'm a little bit surprised at normal business Principles seem to not apply for Canadian cannabis companies in regard to one thing. 131 0:13:28,010 --> 0:13:32,702 Speaker 3: Therefore a long time, a lot of problems, not profitable, and normally that is okay. 132 0:13:33,112 --> 0:13:42,579 Speaker 3: Then you have a market correction and companies fall out, but somehow this is again and again money available to keep on going. 133 0:13:43,370 --> 0:13:50,534 Speaker 3: Normally there would be a market correct, like in our other industries, and that is something we need to Accept that things need to break. 134 0:13:50,574 --> 0:13:54,283 Speaker 3: You have a high price and yet in the value of tears and then stabilizing. 135 0:13:54,571 --> 0:13:55,916 Speaker 3: So now we need to stabilize. 136 0:13:56,851 --> 0:14:05,133 Speaker 3: But now we are keeping it going and now taking the issues to other regions, and that is something what I personally Think. 137 0:14:05,233 --> 0:14:07,518 Speaker 3: It's important to go through the phases and accept. 138 0:14:07,618 --> 0:14:17,830 Speaker 3: It's very normal that it's, you know, after a Gross and high-phase it's going down, but it needs to normalize and put that we need to just accept that if things are working or not working. 139 0:14:18,413 --> 0:14:20,705 Speaker 3: But that is one thing, just general answer. 140 0:14:20,766 --> 0:14:28,772 Speaker 3: But also you bigger is not better repurposing tomato greenhouses for cannabis Until today. 141 0:14:28,792 --> 0:14:32,662 Speaker 3: I'm surprised about it, because what does it have, tomato, in common with the cannabis plant? 142 0:14:33,071 --> 0:14:43,085 Speaker 3: If you take a flower greenhouse where the people are used to produce batches and have a flower like cannabis, I understand, but tomatoes it's a high wire crop growing totally. 143 0:14:43,270 --> 0:14:43,712 Speaker 2: It's a high wire. 144 0:14:43,732 --> 0:14:45,116 Speaker 2: It's a long harvest cycle. 145 0:14:45,237 --> 0:14:46,300 Speaker 2: Cannabis is fast. 146 0:14:48,494 --> 0:14:49,856 Speaker 3: The infrastructure is different. 147 0:14:50,898 --> 0:14:54,024 Speaker 3: If you use the same team, it's totally different. 148 0:14:54,331 --> 0:14:55,756 Speaker 3: There's a place to follow and everything. 149 0:14:56,330 --> 0:15:01,783 Speaker 3: So this is also something too big, too fast, too big, too much investment. 150 0:15:02,010 --> 0:15:13,164 Speaker 3: It looks very asset heavy and not like okay, where can we be with asset lean and also this approach of going everywhere at the same time and vertically integrated. 151 0:15:13,230 --> 0:15:18,342 Speaker 3: So it's a lot of complexity in the business model, in diversification in regions and products and so on. 152 0:15:18,690 --> 0:15:20,236 Speaker 3: That is difficult to manage. 153 0:15:21,071 --> 0:15:22,376 Speaker 2: What are you excited for? 154 0:15:22,396 --> 0:15:23,319 Speaker 2: The future for Europe? 155 0:15:23,390 --> 0:15:28,803 Speaker 2: What needs to happen in order for everything that go tipping forward at an accelerated rate? 156 0:15:28,810 --> 0:15:35,236 Speaker 2: Because it seems like a lot of the people we were talking to, we were down at Switzerland with some clients and it's like we're waiting on Germany. 157 0:15:35,296 --> 0:15:36,940 Speaker 2: We hope maybe two years. 158 0:15:37,730 --> 0:15:42,262 Speaker 2: There seems to be a mystery around when it really is time to go. 159 0:15:42,851 --> 0:15:43,374 Speaker 3: That's a good one. 160 0:15:43,731 --> 0:15:46,330 Speaker 3: So for me personally, the important thing is to make the first steps. 161 0:15:46,410 --> 0:15:50,201 Speaker 3: They are always the hardest, but if you start going, you go. 162 0:15:51,692 --> 0:15:54,398 Speaker 3: And for me, the first step now is in Germany. 163 0:15:54,718 --> 0:15:57,444 Speaker 3: The government said, okay, they want to do a two pillar strategy. 164 0:15:57,851 --> 0:16:09,182 Speaker 3: First pillar is where you allow consumption, where you allow possession, where you allow to grow three plants at home and where you can join social clubs which grow with its members the cannabis. 165 0:16:09,570 --> 0:16:19,590 Speaker 3: With that you decriminalize, you start to enter stigmatization and you make, so to say, normal and the people are no criminals and so on. 166 0:16:19,730 --> 0:16:31,977 Speaker 3: So that is, I think, good for society and that is for me a very important first step, because other steps can follow easier, because you can also speak about issues, you integrate the society in the further process. 167 0:16:32,278 --> 0:16:33,722 Speaker 3: But you need to do the first step. 168 0:16:34,050 --> 0:16:35,175 Speaker 3: So I'm very excited about that. 169 0:16:36,111 --> 0:16:47,681 Speaker 3: And then the second pillar in Germany is all about pilot projects, so what they do for five years and evaluation in different regions, and the same is happening in Switzerland and the same is happening in the Netherlands. 170 0:16:47,950 --> 0:16:52,043 Speaker 3: So you have three countries and they are more or less. 171 0:16:52,103 --> 0:17:06,376 Speaker 3: The Swiss and the Dutch are ahead, but they are all in a similar timeframe, more or less, and then you have five years, you have some data points, you have several countries, and then could be a huge topic. 172 0:17:07,410 --> 0:17:17,922 Speaker 3: But it's important that it's going, but I think it will be slower and just not as fast as people hope, but it's a bit Stop. 173 0:17:18,324 --> 0:17:18,926 Speaker 2: It's a little bit stunning. 174 0:17:19,071 --> 0:17:20,918 Speaker 2: It's clear that something has started here. 175 0:17:21,310 --> 0:17:22,314 Speaker 2: It's not going away. 176 0:17:22,555 --> 0:17:31,804 Speaker 2: No, so between Holland, switzerland, the country officials elected what ten farms to allow these THC trials? 177 0:17:31,844 --> 0:17:33,611 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then where would that medicine go? 178 0:17:34,406 --> 0:17:35,570 Speaker 2: So it gets destroyed. 179 0:17:35,610 --> 0:17:44,149 Speaker 3: It gets destroyed, or what I just referred to is all programs for recreation, so all these countries have medical programs, so we have in Europe. 180 0:17:44,690 --> 0:17:54,685 Speaker 3: Good amount of the countries have medical programs, so medical cannabis is in the most countries, while a lot of countries are available, but these three programs I was referring to is really wrecked. 181 0:17:55,387 --> 0:18:08,079 Speaker 3: So in the Netherlands I think everyone knows the coffee shop, but there's always the total absurd situation that the product is illegal until it is on the shelf at the coffee shop. 182 0:18:08,725 --> 0:18:12,476 Speaker 3: Then it's all of the sudden legal, magic, yeah, magically legal. 183 0:18:13,669 --> 0:18:17,685 Speaker 3: So the government said okay, we want to nominate, select ten licenses. 184 0:18:18,307 --> 0:18:21,791 Speaker 3: They grow for the coffee shops, so start to that. 185 0:18:21,831 --> 0:18:23,235 Speaker 3: The supply chain becomes legal. 186 0:18:23,926 --> 0:18:27,456 Speaker 3: They exclude it in this experiment Amsterdam, rotterdam, because it's much too big. 187 0:18:27,705 --> 0:18:29,512 Speaker 3: You need much more rows. 188 0:18:30,027 --> 0:18:35,685 Speaker 3: So that there were selected municipalities which are much smaller and these ten rows grow for them and for the coffee shops. 189 0:18:36,567 --> 0:18:40,537 Speaker 3: But they also need to give a good product portfolio. 190 0:18:40,986 --> 0:18:50,276 Speaker 3: So they need to grow different strains, obviously, but also produce hash and so on, what the normal coffee shop could do users and buy today. 191 0:18:51,627 --> 0:18:55,236 Speaker 3: So they need to come up with a good amount of nice products. 192 0:18:56,286 --> 0:19:04,013 Speaker 3: That is in the Netherlands, and to really test how we can legalize the supply chain, because now it comes also to the Netherlands from all over the world. 193 0:19:04,805 --> 0:19:05,928 Speaker 3: You get the Moroccan hash, you get the. 194 0:19:06,309 --> 0:19:08,254 Speaker 3: You know, that was always, it was always. 195 0:19:08,294 --> 0:19:08,414 Speaker 3: Yeah. 196 0:19:09,805 --> 0:19:25,535 Speaker 3: So, and in Switzerland it's a program also with municipalities and they're it's different because people like you and me we are maybe Swiss and then we say want to participate in the program, and then you got selected and then in the pharmacy your name is registered and then you can buy it. 197 0:19:25,555 --> 0:19:26,677 Speaker 3: But it's recreation, right? 198 0:19:27,331 --> 0:19:45,533 Speaker 3: So that is this program in Germany they want to do it similar like in the Netherlands, that a city of Cologne, for example, want to be part of the experiment, and then you need to grow in the municipality, you need to distribute there and you need to have a point of sale there, vertically integrated, totally. 199 0:19:45,655 --> 0:19:48,229 Speaker 3: But in the city, right, you cannot be in, I don't know. 200 0:19:48,730 --> 0:19:51,537 Speaker 3: You know sell it in Munich, but grow it in, I don't know, berlin. 201 0:19:52,527 --> 0:20:08,665 Speaker 3: So it's really in a regional experiment to test the whole supply chain and to understand, you know, potential issues, to accompany this whole thing with the field research, to get quantified, to get data, to then hopefully change EU law. 202 0:20:09,206 --> 0:20:12,492 Speaker 3: Because this is actually the big thing, why everything is so slow. 203 0:20:13,333 --> 0:20:24,624 Speaker 3: Because internationally, you know, you cannot export an import cannabis because it is under the UN's single convention, it's narcotic, so no one is allowed. 204 0:20:25,146 --> 0:20:40,584 Speaker 3: You need to go out of the UN single convention to say I export the recreation cannabis so and that grew by another country Canada did that but in Europe it's also forbidden under EU law and that is a huge issue. 205 0:20:41,206 --> 0:20:47,685 Speaker 3: That's why you cannot, for recreational purposes, take wheat and fortical and export it to Germany. 206 0:20:48,187 --> 0:20:49,452 Speaker 3: You cannot, it's not possible. 207 0:20:49,845 --> 0:21:02,665 Speaker 3: So what everyone needs to wait is that there is enough pool from the member state to change EU law and say we don't see cannabis as narcotic, which fall under this and that category, and take it out. 208 0:21:03,129 --> 0:21:03,915 Speaker 3: Then you can. 209 0:21:05,343 --> 0:21:07,724 Speaker 3: That's going to take some time, yes, take some time. 210 0:21:07,764 --> 0:21:13,391 Speaker 3: But there's also desire because see the countries like Portugal it's a great country to cultivate. 211 0:21:13,841 --> 0:21:15,766 Speaker 3: They don't have a stronger mass market. 212 0:21:15,806 --> 0:21:20,408 Speaker 3: They want to export, yes, and maybe the Germans say I want the import. 213 0:21:20,741 --> 0:21:30,351 Speaker 3: And then the Dutch say and the Luxembourg and Malta, they are several, the Czech, they are several countries moving, so you need to just collect a team for the same purpose. 214 0:21:30,620 --> 0:21:44,831 Speaker 3: And I think what that is are the Germans and the Dutch and the Swiss are doing it right now as a pilot project great because this they can do with ILLULA and get it started and wait until you have like a critical mass in the end to change the policy. 215 0:21:45,640 --> 0:21:49,986 Speaker 2: Out of all the cannabis you've seen from all over the world, they get imported into Germany. 216 0:21:50,520 --> 0:21:55,130 Speaker 2: Are there any countries where, like, they're really doing a great job, or do you know what I mean? 217 0:21:55,391 --> 0:21:56,012 Speaker 2: No, yeah, totally. 218 0:21:56,480 --> 0:21:57,665 Speaker 2: Who's the best growers in the world? 219 0:21:58,921 --> 0:22:01,588 Speaker 2: I bet each grower from each country will tell you they're the best grower. 220 0:22:01,688 --> 0:22:03,312 Speaker 2: Yes, you're right, but from your perspective. 221 0:22:03,721 --> 0:22:07,391 Speaker 3: I think it's not so much countries I can pinpoint it to. 222 0:22:08,001 --> 0:22:21,410 Speaker 3: It's good in selecting the right partners and having the right process and tools to ensure that you get good product which is fulfilling their requirements, and I think their company is doing that very well. 223 0:22:22,042 --> 0:22:30,106 Speaker 3: So I think that is more the dispute with the wholesale of a biased product knows to scout correctly and select correctly. 224 0:22:30,640 --> 0:22:41,460 Speaker 3: But yeah, I think it's testament to the global industry that you can grow good cannabis all over the world in the past and today and in the future. 225 0:22:42,202 --> 0:22:46,192 Speaker 3: There's a possibility for everyone, but you need to find your proposition, sure. 226 0:22:50,084 --> 0:22:51,866 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Cultivation Elevated. 227 0:22:52,366 --> 0:23:02,136 Speaker 1: Full show notes for each episode, which includes a summary, key takeaways, quotes and any resources mentioned are available at pip horticulturecom forward slash podcast. 228 0:23:02,923 --> 0:23:14,955 Speaker 1: Be sure to follow and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and if you're enjoying the content and getting value from these episodes, please leave us a rating and a review and rate this podcastcom forward slash cultivation elevated. 229 0:23:15,480 --> 0:23:17,287 Speaker 1: We'll be sure to read these out on future episodes.