Welcome back to Promoter, the podcast that gets you promoted.

And be great when you get there.

My name is Renee Wootton.

I'm an aerospace engineer, pilot, speaker, love aerospace, aviation, all things.

And I am joined by the phenomenal Felicity Fury, CEO and co founder of We Aspire.

Felicity, we're back with another hot topic.

What have you got for us today?

Yes.

Hey, Renee, great to see you as always.

Love the intro.

Phenomenal.

I've never.

I've been called phenomenal.

Felicity.

Furious.

A lot of foot sounds in there.

I love it.

This topic came up for me this week, actually.

It was one of the people in our programs, one of the amazing leaders that we have.

We've run this awesome program, actually, in construction.

We've had 10 out of the 15 people in the program be promoted, which is super duper exciting to see.

And this one lady who's just recently got a promotion is trying to work out, you know, just how do I.

How do I take that next step?

And one of the things that came up in the conversation, which is something that we've actually been coaching a number of people on, which is why I want to bring into the podcast today, is that how do you leave?

Well, so it might be that you're getting promoted within your organization, or you could be getting promoted and going to a new role.

I think it's particularly interesting.

Interesting when you're in an organization, and for this person, they were going from one project to a new project, and this is a major project.

It's actually pulling a lot of resources in the company.

And so there's a bit of tension in that relationship because there's the.

You know, it could be a bit awkward for her current team that she's going into this new role.

Like she's going to be kind of leaving them.

And it's interesting, too, because this role that she's in, she actually really loves.

She's really enjoying the role, but this is giving her new opportunities to build new skills.

So I've had this situation personally where I've had to think.

I've wanted deliberately to think about leaving well.

So I thought it could be helpful for our listeners today.

Renee, you've changed roles a few times.

Like we spoke about in a previous episode.

How do you leave?

Well, I feel like it's.

Leaving well is like the last, like, couple of kilometers in your marathon or your half marathon, where I'm just like, my mantra is like, finish strong, finish strong, finish strong.

And it can be hard to do that.

Absolutely.

When I think about leaving a job I think about the motivation and passion that I had the day I started a job and I bring that to my last, let's say, four weeks in the role.

So I meet every need that I can in the time I have.

I'm really diligent with my handover notes.

I prep my team as early as, as I can and try and even support where are they going next, what are they looking ahead to, how can I facilitate a changeover with work and let them know what path they're on as soon as I exit the business so that when I go, nothing really changes for them until the next person comes in.

And I really make that my mantra, my mission, because I want all of those people to be speaking positively about me when I leave.

But I also want to do the right thing by all of those people that have, you know, supported me in building my skills and achieving in my role and also giving back and making sure that my team members that are reporting into me, you know, have that same sense of respect and dignity left in their roles as I exit.

But in saying that, I've certainly had, you know, scenarios where I've had people be like, so are you sad to be leaving?

And then I'm like, not that sad.

I have to think about that.

I do my best absolutely through my work to be able to make sure that I am setting up the team for success.

But certainly when it comes to making these moves, I've normally made these moves because it's really aligned to me.

I can't tell you many jobs that I've left where it hasn't been exactly the right role that I wanted at that time.

So when you get those awkward questions where they're like, oh, we're going to be so sad to see you go, aren't you going to be sad to see Oscar?

Like, oh, not always.

I am very excited for this next move.

I'm certainly going to miss everyone, but not sad to be leaving.

We're moving on.

It can be tricky when you give that notice, period.

And there was one role in particular when I had where I really love the role and I really love the organization.

There was this opportunity to go do my own business and I was, you know, 29 at the time and I just thought, gosh, I really like, this is just opportunity I just couldn't see coming along again.

I thought, I can always work in a corporate role in engineering, but this business opportunity just isn't going to be there forever.

And I gave them them a six week notice period.

And I'll Tell you what, it felt like a long six weeks.

Like, that's why the minimum notice period is four months.

So I did find it tricky having that almost.

I feel like having to stay motivated for that period of time.

But that role is actually one that I really did want to leave.

Well, and how.

It was actually one of the dream company that I wanted to work for since I was at university.

And how I connected with the company was actually through their CEO.

So their CEO messaged me on LinkedIn about some of the charity work I was doing.

We're having a conversation about that.

And it just so happened that I was also moving to Sydney and looking for a new role.

And he very generously shared my cv.

He said, you know, obviously you can't promise anything, but I can introduce you to a couple of people.

And I remember when I resigned, I made a deliberate job of telling people first that I'd resigned because I wanted to keep those key relationships because I really valued the company and not like I hadn't valued previous employers, but I really wanted to.

I just had so much respect for the people there and really wanted to do a good job of leaving.

So I actually thought about all the key relationships I had within the organization.

I wrote them down, I wrote them a card.

I personally met a number of them to say, I'm leaving.

I didn't want there to be any surprises.

And I sat down with the CEO, too.

And I got to say I was.

Was bawling my eyes out in his office.

And he was so kind.

He said, the reason that you're crying is because you care.

And I was like, I do care.

It's so nice.

And he's still an incredible mentor.

I spoke to him two weeks ago.

We have a fantastic relationship.

And he's on the We Aspire advisory, which I'm very grateful for.

So, yeah, it was interesting.

It was the first time I'd really stopped to think about, not just around the job, but also around those.

Those key relationships.

And the more I've worked in my career, the more I've realize it's actually a really, really small industry.

And so it's important for me personally to maintain those relationships.

So even though I've left the organization, I still feel like, yeah, I still do have ongoing relationships just by putting in a little bit of extra thinking and considering how could I make this the best way to leave possible?

I love that.

And actually, as you've been speaking, you know, the advice I just gave around, not that sad about leaving, actually, there's been Numerous roles where it's been really sad to leave for that very reason because the people are just exceptional.

And to that point, you know, I spent just over a year at Western Sydney Airport and still, you know, now that I'm at lensjet, I love my job so much, love the people that I'm working with, but certainly have the fondest memories of my time at Western Sydney Airport and the exceptional talent and people that I worked with there.

It was probably one of the best moves I'd made in my career at that point in my life.

And you know, still today have a very solid relationship with my then manager who has now, you know, gone on to mentor me for many years and yeah, certainly can reflect on many other roles in the past.

And yeah, to that point those memories have been certainly the saddest in saying goodbye, but also the most beneficial because generally they're the relationships you maintain for many years to come.

Yeah, for sure.

And I think getting on the front foot and as you were just showing Renee, you just reminded me of.

It's also around that.

What's that message that you have around your story?

Because when you share your story, you get to create that for others.

And one, you know, after I left that role and did start my own business, we ended up having to close the business.

And towards the end we paid our staff, we weren't paying ourselves and it was very aligned to our values.

So I think whatever, you know, when it comes to decision making, we talked about this in the podcast before, is really high.

Honing in on what those values are and what's important.

When we closed the business, it was we want to pay our staff and take care of them.

We were giving them as much notice as possible into the wind down of the organization.

And we were telling them, you know, we're not paying ourselves and this is kind of what the future is probably going to look like.

And really giving them that information as we could as it became available as our Runway of cash was kind of finishing.

And that one was a really tricky one for me because it was what was the story I was telling myself around leaving the organization was actually quite tricky because I'd felt like a failure because we hadn't been, we hadn't had the success that we wanted to.

So I think that story that you have to yourself is really, really powerful and then it helps you create that story for others.

So I think what's great you were just sharing about your Western Sydney role is that the opportunity of doing all the strategic stuff was really fantastic and Then I know there was another opportunity for you that build another kind of piece of your puzzle in where you wanted to go with your future.

And that was not like it's a story, like it's made up, but that was part of your strateg, actually.

You're being really strategic.

So I think it's important for us to control that narrative for ourselves and put that forward to others rather than making assumptions of like, oh, why'd you leave?

Oh, you've done that now?

Et cetera, et cetera.

Yeah, absolutely.

And that's the thing, naturally, particularly in small teams or, you know, small organizations.

And at the time, Western Sydney Airport was quite small compared to, you know, one of my previous employees, like Qantas, thousands of people.

What I can say is, you know, I went to my manager at the time.

I was headhunted onto this next position, and I wasn't looking for a job.

I wasn't in the market.

I was genuinely, like, living my best life in the job of my dreams at the time.

And it took me eight weeks to make the decision to accept the opportunity that was presented to me.

And, you know, during that time, I went to my manager, I went to her manager to have very transparent conversations around whether or not I should take that opportunity.

And they actually helped me make the decision as well.

So, you know, being transparent, being open and letting people know and help you make the decision, if you trust them is a beautiful way to build trust and also to maintain a relationship.

And, you know, when I walked out the door there, you know, the executive manager of commercial at the time said, you know, you always have a job open with us if you ever want to come back.

Which is the best way to leave, honestly.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I think that really demonstrates that you had those conversations openly.

And I think if they.

If the person that you're working for or the leaders in the organization are great leaders, they're going to want what is best for you ultimately.

And for them, you know, the.

That's great.

They build that relationship with, you know, like.

And trust them.

You can come back into that.

You've got that relationship wherever they're going to be in the aviation industry.

Same goes for the people I was working for previously.

And they.

Yeah, they said the same thing, like, if you want to come back, I don't know, maybe they've changed their mind.

Who knows?

Anything's possible.

When I left at the time, they said as well.

So I think that that's a good sign that you've left well, and that you Maintain those relationships because it a small industry.

Any other final tips, Renee?

Any other things that you would recommend people do where they're leaving an organization or even staying in the same organization and changing roles?

What are some, what are the final key things that you think people should think about?

I would just say communication is key and being transparent.

And if you don't leak your story to numerous people, tell the key people in your team that need to know.

And generally that's only your manager and their manager because they need to start thinking about recruitment and that's the initial conversation.

But then you know, when you're looking to tell people in your team, make sure you tell everybody at the same time because it's always an awful experience to, you know, one team member comes to you as a peer rather than you hearing from your manager that they're leaving because you've told somebody because you've got a closer relationship with them over somebody else.

So making sure that you know you have a really clear communication plan with your manager about how you're going to communicate to your teams, to your stakeholders, to your clients.

If you're a consultant, whatever it is, just have that in alignment and make sure that you stick to that because the rumor mill is strong and people catch wind of things and run with it.

And sometimes you just want to control your own narrative.

So that's a great way to just save those relationships and make sure everybody's informed at the same time.

Totally.

Yeah.

It just takes a minute to stop and think and come up with a bit of a plan.

I think my takeaway would be no surprises.

That's always a helpful one for me to think about.

Who could be surprised?

Who am I going to blindside with this?

You know, it's not just for leaving roles.

We think about this a lot with that client.

So there's no surprises.

What do we need to be in terms of our communication to be open and transparent and then create that story first so that they're not getting surprises where they're in a meeting and they're getting blindsided.

So yeah, I think that's a really, really valuable one.

Setting those boundaries for people and yeah, no surprises.

Thanks, Renee.

Another great episode.

Let us know if this has been helpful.

If there's anything you want to hear in this podcast, send Renee and I a message on LinkedIn.

We'd love to hear from you.

And very soon we're going to be launching our free one day leadership training event which is going to be happening in February in Brisbane.

Check out our website weaspire Education for all the details.

We would love to see you there in person and support you in your leadership journey.

Thanks Renee.

We'll see you in the next one.

See you in the next one.

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Great shout out.

Thanks for listening.