1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,799 You found the backup wrap up. 2 00:00:01,919 --> 00:00:06,780 Your go-to podcast for all things backup recovery and cyber recovery. 3 00:00:07,229 --> 00:00:10,979 In this episode, we tackle something that's every backup person deals 4 00:00:10,979 --> 00:00:13,829 with trying to get money for backup. 5 00:00:14,399 --> 00:00:17,220 Backup is not sexy, but here's the thing. 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:17,819 When ransomware hits. 7 00:00:18,814 --> 00:00:21,544 It will hit you better have good backups. 8 00:00:21,574 --> 00:00:26,914 Or you might end up like the vodka company stole that, just filed for bankruptcy 9 00:00:27,095 --> 00:00:31,745 due to a ransomware attack persona, and I dig into how to convince the people 10 00:00:31,745 --> 00:00:34,535 with the purse rings that backup matters. 11 00:00:34,984 --> 00:00:37,625 We talk about working with your security folks. 12 00:00:37,834 --> 00:00:41,134 Yes, it's the same ones that I used to hate back in the day. 13 00:00:41,504 --> 00:00:46,844 And also getting the GRC team on your side as well, if you're tired of being 14 00:00:46,844 --> 00:00:48,944 the last priority in the IT budget. 15 00:00:49,214 --> 00:00:53,444 This is your episode, by the way, if you don't know who I am, 16 00:00:53,444 --> 00:00:56,144 I'm w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. 17 00:00:56,144 --> 00:00:59,594 Backup, and I've been passionate about backup and recovery for 18 00:00:59,624 --> 00:01:01,724 over 30 years, ever since. 19 00:01:01,724 --> 00:01:05,774 I had to tell my boss that there were no backups of the production 20 00:01:05,774 --> 00:01:07,334 database that we had just lost. 21 00:01:07,905 --> 00:01:11,385 I don't want that to happen to you, and that's why I do this. 22 00:01:11,835 --> 00:01:17,025 On this podcast, we turn unappreciated backup admins into Cyber Recovery Heroes. 23 00:01:17,325 --> 00:01:19,425 This is the backup wrap up. 24 00:01:33,519 --> 00:01:34,569 Welcome to the show. 25 00:01:35,229 --> 00:01:37,749 Hi, I am w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. 26 00:01:37,749 --> 00:01:43,299 Backup, and with me, I have a guy that I might have to defriend of his comments 27 00:01:43,299 --> 00:01:47,589 today about wicked Prasanna Malaiyandi. 28 00:01:47,609 --> 00:01:47,829 Oh, 29 00:01:50,754 --> 00:01:52,464 so hi Curtis. 30 00:01:52,514 --> 00:01:53,908 Yeah, We saw it a couple weeks ago 31 00:01:54,508 --> 00:01:58,228 and I've been listening to the soundtrack and I think I might have 32 00:01:58,228 --> 00:02:01,648 told you the other day I was at work, it was like seven in the morning and 33 00:02:01,648 --> 00:02:07,198 I had the wicked, like I, I had, uh, popular Ariana Grande's popular song, 34 00:02:07,198 --> 00:02:14,008 just like stuck in my head and I might have tried humming it along aloud. 35 00:02:14,338 --> 00:02:14,668 But 36 00:02:16,573 --> 00:02:18,493 It's not really a hummable song. 37 00:02:18,733 --> 00:02:18,973 Hmm 38 00:02:19,018 --> 00:02:19,348 yes. 39 00:02:19,598 --> 00:02:20,018 Mm-hmm. 40 00:02:21,103 --> 00:02:21,763 It's not really hum. 41 00:02:22,528 --> 00:02:25,648 So yes, so I did that and I enjoy it. 42 00:02:25,648 --> 00:02:27,358 So I was listening to the soundtrack today, 43 00:02:27,508 --> 00:02:27,928 Mm-hmm. 44 00:02:28,048 --> 00:02:31,198 and there is one song, I'm Not That Girl. 45 00:02:31,843 --> 00:02:32,473 Yeah. 46 00:02:32,848 --> 00:02:33,658 And 47 00:02:34,243 --> 00:02:34,453 You're 48 00:02:34,528 --> 00:02:35,818 yes, I'm not that girl. 49 00:02:35,848 --> 00:02:38,458 And as part of it, she has a crush on a. 50 00:02:39,118 --> 00:02:42,088 Someone, and it turns out to be a guy. 51 00:02:42,448 --> 00:02:44,248 And so I had asked Curtis a question. 52 00:02:44,248 --> 00:02:46,678 I'm like, why does it have to be a guy? 53 00:02:47,663 --> 00:02:49,978 It's just, 'cause that's the story, man. 54 00:02:50,128 --> 00:02:53,128 I'm, I'm just saying it's not very inclusive. 55 00:02:54,813 --> 00:02:58,858 The, the show's about as inclusive, as inclu, as inclusive shows get 56 00:02:59,098 --> 00:03:04,273 you're, so you're saying there's not, well, I would argue that 57 00:03:04,463 --> 00:03:04,583 I. 58 00:03:04,768 --> 00:03:06,238 guy that she has a crush on. 59 00:03:08,698 --> 00:03:11,068 Uh, how do I put this? 60 00:03:11,458 --> 00:03:14,698 I think he might also be open to guys, 61 00:03:15,178 --> 00:03:15,688 Okay. 62 00:03:16,918 --> 00:03:20,938 um, I, I'm pretty sure I mean, that, that it, it's, he's the 63 00:03:20,938 --> 00:03:24,388 most free version of Fierro I've 64 00:03:24,388 --> 00:03:28,798 Yeah, but then here's my question is why couldn't I have been an animal, like 65 00:03:29,038 --> 00:03:32,098 there's a goat or a sheep in the movie? 66 00:03:32,098 --> 00:03:34,288 There are other animals as well. 67 00:03:34,843 --> 00:03:35,333 because. 68 00:03:35,488 --> 00:03:35,848 Right. 69 00:03:35,848 --> 00:03:36,388 Or, 70 00:03:36,583 --> 00:03:38,113 No, no, 71 00:03:38,188 --> 00:03:39,568 or, or, 72 00:03:39,793 --> 00:03:41,863 human animal relationships. 73 00:03:42,343 --> 00:03:43,273 That doesn't work. 74 00:03:43,993 --> 00:03:44,323 That's a 75 00:03:44,368 --> 00:03:44,578 okay. 76 00:03:44,713 --> 00:03:45,283 problem 77 00:03:45,478 --> 00:03:46,288 I'm just, 78 00:03:46,333 --> 00:03:49,213 there's, there's so much that we, there's only so much we can take, 79 00:03:49,483 --> 00:03:52,693 you know, there's only so many of the allegory of the, I mean, the, the 80 00:03:52,693 --> 00:03:58,093 movie's so full of like allegories and, you know, like the animals basically 81 00:03:58,093 --> 00:04:01,813 represent sort of a, a downtrodden, uh, what do you, what do you call it? 82 00:04:01,813 --> 00:04:02,953 A marginalized, uh, 83 00:04:03,148 --> 00:04:03,448 Yeah. 84 00:04:03,673 --> 00:04:04,033 Right? 85 00:04:04,243 --> 00:04:05,773 And it, it's kind of cool in that. 86 00:04:06,733 --> 00:04:09,313 By being animals in the story, they can represent any 87 00:04:09,313 --> 00:04:10,723 marginalized culture, which is 88 00:04:10,753 --> 00:04:11,053 Yep. 89 00:04:11,623 --> 00:04:11,833 Yeah. 90 00:04:12,343 --> 00:04:13,123 so, 91 00:04:13,513 --> 00:04:14,683 So do you still hate me? 92 00:04:17,413 --> 00:04:22,513 how dare you, how dare you criticize my current, favorite movie 93 00:04:22,513 --> 00:04:25,183 Which is, uh, by the way, by the way, how many times have you seen it? 94 00:04:25,783 --> 00:04:26,353 three 95 00:04:27,313 --> 00:04:27,673 Okay, 96 00:04:28,033 --> 00:04:28,753 in the theater? 97 00:04:28,753 --> 00:04:29,503 Three times. 98 00:04:29,623 --> 00:04:30,883 in two weeks? 99 00:04:31,093 --> 00:04:31,873 many times. 100 00:04:33,118 --> 00:04:34,553 The movie's been out for two weeks, right? 101 00:04:35,638 --> 00:04:37,198 Yeah, I saw it three times. 102 00:04:37,918 --> 00:04:38,908 Like on the first weekend. 103 00:04:42,123 --> 00:04:43,048 Uh, I, well, 104 00:04:43,073 --> 00:04:43,573 And, and 105 00:04:44,038 --> 00:04:46,168 the first weekend, I think a couple days later is when I 106 00:04:46,183 --> 00:04:46,473 yeah. 107 00:04:46,588 --> 00:04:48,028 with, with my daughter. 108 00:04:48,193 --> 00:04:52,318 here you are complaining about Bollywood movies being too long, and yet you 109 00:04:52,318 --> 00:04:55,318 spent how many hours in a theater. 110 00:04:55,618 --> 00:05:00,748 I've spent nine hours in a theater seeing this movie, uh, most of which I was awake. 111 00:05:00,958 --> 00:05:01,558 Um. 112 00:05:01,738 --> 00:05:04,768 Which is surprising for those of you who may not realize it, Curtis 113 00:05:04,768 --> 00:05:06,928 tends to fall asleep in theaters. 114 00:05:07,228 --> 00:05:09,898 There were some, there were little naps here and there, but 115 00:05:10,048 --> 00:05:10,318 Yeah. 116 00:05:10,558 --> 00:05:10,648 I 117 00:05:10,678 --> 00:05:11,878 But your wife took a nap 118 00:05:12,328 --> 00:05:13,078 Yeah, she did 119 00:05:13,288 --> 00:05:14,428 and she did see it twice. 120 00:05:14,458 --> 00:05:14,848 Yeah, 121 00:05:15,328 --> 00:05:15,628 Yeah, 122 00:05:15,928 --> 00:05:20,608 but she napped a different section, so she was able to actually see overall, yeah. 123 00:05:23,233 --> 00:05:24,133 Oh Lord. 124 00:05:24,223 --> 00:05:29,773 Um, so for those of you that are, you know, here for a backup podcast, 125 00:05:29,773 --> 00:05:31,663 maybe we should talk about that now. 126 00:05:32,143 --> 00:05:34,753 Um, I, I, I was thinking about, I. 127 00:05:35,818 --> 00:05:39,118 The, this, this idea of getting buy-in, right? 128 00:05:41,128 --> 00:05:46,858 backup, I don't know if you know this persona backup is not now, nor has it 129 00:05:46,858 --> 00:05:50,608 ever been like the sexy part of of it, 130 00:05:51,033 --> 00:05:51,323 Yeah. 131 00:05:53,488 --> 00:05:58,888 Do you think it is at the same level of like, say networking? 132 00:06:01,318 --> 00:06:01,948 No. 133 00:06:01,948 --> 00:06:03,448 It's below networking. 134 00:06:03,913 --> 00:06:07,753 Because I mean, here's, and here's why I say that. 135 00:06:08,083 --> 00:06:13,243 There are people that like go to college and, and go through training and like 136 00:06:13,393 --> 00:06:13,473 Hmm. 137 00:06:13,723 --> 00:06:15,043 is to be a network engineer. 138 00:06:15,253 --> 00:06:16,933 No one goes 139 00:06:17,143 --> 00:06:17,363 to. 140 00:06:17,383 --> 00:06:18,613 become a backup person. 141 00:06:19,313 --> 00:06:24,863 It's how so many people including me, got their start or get their start in it. 142 00:06:26,408 --> 00:06:27,818 It's the job nobody wants. 143 00:06:27,878 --> 00:06:28,358 And, 144 00:06:28,568 --> 00:06:29,048 you, you know, 145 00:06:29,228 --> 00:06:30,608 going to the topic. 146 00:06:30,668 --> 00:06:30,998 What's that? 147 00:06:31,688 --> 00:06:33,728 I want to meet someone. 148 00:06:34,478 --> 00:06:38,648 I bet there is an individual out there who growing up they said, 149 00:06:38,738 --> 00:06:39,938 I want to be a backup badman. 150 00:06:40,658 --> 00:06:41,558 Yeah, they, yeah, they 151 00:06:41,558 --> 00:06:43,028 I bet there's one person. 152 00:06:43,178 --> 00:06:44,588 and they're like, I want to be like Curtis. 153 00:06:45,188 --> 00:06:47,408 I bet there's at least one person in the world. 154 00:06:47,733 --> 00:06:48,033 All right. 155 00:06:48,128 --> 00:06:51,608 If there's somebody out there, especially somebody, you know, what if they, if they 156 00:06:51,608 --> 00:06:53,888 exist, they're listening to this podcast. 157 00:06:55,223 --> 00:06:58,043 And, uh, 'cause they, you know, they have a Google search, like 158 00:06:58,043 --> 00:07:00,383 a, one of those, you know, the 159 00:07:00,493 --> 00:07:01,268 RSSV. 160 00:07:01,358 --> 00:07:01,718 Yeah. 161 00:07:02,003 --> 00:07:02,453 Yeah. 162 00:07:02,693 --> 00:07:03,923 Uh, for the word backup. 163 00:07:03,983 --> 00:07:09,413 And, um, they found out, they found this podcast, um, and 164 00:07:09,413 --> 00:07:10,733 they're like, wait, what is this? 165 00:07:10,763 --> 00:07:11,933 I must listen to this. 166 00:07:13,193 --> 00:07:13,913 But, 167 00:07:14,438 --> 00:07:18,368 But I agree with you though that in most companies, right, it isn't 168 00:07:18,428 --> 00:07:21,428 the thing that people desire to do. 169 00:07:21,458 --> 00:07:24,758 They don't want to stay in backup very long if they could help it, right? 170 00:07:24,758 --> 00:07:28,538 It's sort of a stepping stone to become a sysadmin or an application 171 00:07:28,538 --> 00:07:30,488 admin or something else, and. 172 00:07:31,283 --> 00:07:37,373 Also in terms of like IT budget, it isn't prioritized at all, right? 173 00:07:37,373 --> 00:07:42,083 It's like, here are some leftover dollars or here's like a tiny 174 00:07:42,083 --> 00:07:44,123 fraction of the overall IT budget go. 175 00:07:44,123 --> 00:07:45,083 Do with it what you will. 176 00:07:46,358 --> 00:07:48,608 And I, I, I think it, it's for a 177 00:07:48,888 --> 00:07:49,178 Yeah. 178 00:07:49,598 --> 00:07:50,018 right? 179 00:07:50,078 --> 00:07:55,658 One is that, um, backup never added anything to anybody's bottom line 180 00:07:56,108 --> 00:07:57,548 unless you're a backup company. 181 00:07:57,638 --> 00:07:58,058 Right. 182 00:07:59,618 --> 00:08:02,078 In the sense of it's not a revenue generating 183 00:08:02,078 --> 00:08:03,338 function of the business, 184 00:08:03,953 --> 00:08:07,673 It is a revenue taking part of, of the business, 185 00:08:07,838 --> 00:08:12,068 but you could also say like anything dealing with like, uh, compliance 186 00:08:12,098 --> 00:08:13,478 is also seen that way as well. 187 00:08:14,063 --> 00:08:14,663 Yeah. 188 00:08:15,353 --> 00:08:20,453 it's similar, compliance is similar in that you're doing it 189 00:08:20,543 --> 00:08:22,763 because you kind of have to do it. 190 00:08:23,483 --> 00:08:26,723 The um, there may be regulatory. 191 00:08:28,373 --> 00:08:31,973 If you don't do it right, because depending on if you're subject to 192 00:08:32,023 --> 00:08:36,493 a couple of different regulations, may be required to protect your 193 00:08:36,493 --> 00:08:38,263 customer data like hipaa, for 194 00:08:38,383 --> 00:08:38,673 Yeah. 195 00:08:39,238 --> 00:08:39,508 Yep. 196 00:08:39,523 --> 00:08:42,943 One of the, one of the aspects of HIPAA is that you have to protect the data 197 00:08:42,943 --> 00:08:45,193 that you're, that you're storing, right? 198 00:08:45,268 --> 00:08:45,568 Yep. 199 00:08:46,183 --> 00:08:50,963 Um, and, there may be a monetary impact 200 00:08:51,118 --> 00:08:51,408 Yeah. 201 00:08:51,563 --> 00:08:57,293 organization if it doesn't do the stuff that it's supposed 202 00:08:57,293 --> 00:08:58,403 to do for the regulations. 203 00:08:58,403 --> 00:08:58,763 Right. 204 00:08:59,183 --> 00:09:00,233 Um, and the 205 00:09:00,233 --> 00:09:02,633 Especially if you said that It does, but it doesn't. 206 00:09:02,783 --> 00:09:03,233 But you didn't. 207 00:09:04,493 --> 00:09:04,703 what? 208 00:09:05,333 --> 00:09:09,443 Especially if you said it does that you meet those regulatory 209 00:09:09,443 --> 00:09:11,453 obligations, but you actually don't. 210 00:09:12,138 --> 00:09:12,428 Yeah. 211 00:09:12,833 --> 00:09:13,193 Yeah. 212 00:09:13,193 --> 00:09:14,303 That, um. 213 00:09:15,308 --> 00:09:15,548 Yeah. 214 00:09:15,548 --> 00:09:17,168 Or don't meet them in the proper way. 215 00:09:17,168 --> 00:09:17,468 Right. 216 00:09:17,573 --> 00:09:17,933 Yeah. 217 00:09:17,978 --> 00:09:21,248 again, I think back, I, I know we brought this up on the podcast, but 218 00:09:21,888 --> 00:09:27,648 when we think about the GDPR, I, I think about some of the fines, and the one 219 00:09:27,648 --> 00:09:35,028 that continually comes to me is this hospital in Portugal that their, their 220 00:09:35,028 --> 00:09:37,908 way of granting various levels of. 221 00:09:38,973 --> 00:09:44,793 access to the data was to grant everyone, doctor A, they made everyone 222 00:09:44,793 --> 00:09:47,883 a doctor that was easier, right? 223 00:09:47,943 --> 00:09:53,433 And so everyone in the organization from the janitor to, the president 224 00:09:53,433 --> 00:09:58,563 of the hospital had doctor access, which meant they had direct access 225 00:09:58,563 --> 00:10:01,173 to, obviously, to medical records. 226 00:10:01,363 --> 00:10:01,653 Yeah, 227 00:10:01,683 --> 00:10:04,683 janitor does not need direct access to the medical records. 228 00:10:04,908 --> 00:10:05,958 maybe they do. 229 00:10:06,153 --> 00:10:07,593 the administrator of the hospital. 230 00:10:07,848 --> 00:10:08,088 Yeah. 231 00:10:08,433 --> 00:10:09,903 Most of the people 232 00:10:10,008 --> 00:10:10,308 Yeah. 233 00:10:10,473 --> 00:10:10,713 right. 234 00:10:10,713 --> 00:10:11,793 A doctor, right. 235 00:10:11,793 --> 00:10:12,543 A nurse, 236 00:10:12,858 --> 00:10:13,098 Yep. 237 00:10:13,683 --> 00:10:14,493 other people don't. 238 00:10:14,493 --> 00:10:21,183 And so that, and so they basically, the, the, the, uh, regulators, when they 239 00:10:21,183 --> 00:10:26,463 looked at this, the, the response was kind of like, look, you didn't even try 240 00:10:26,913 --> 00:10:27,123 Hmm. 241 00:10:27,378 --> 00:10:27,598 you, 242 00:10:27,693 --> 00:10:27,963 Yeah. 243 00:10:29,013 --> 00:10:31,653 you just, you just said, we don't need to do this at all. 244 00:10:31,688 --> 00:10:31,768 Hmm. 245 00:10:31,803 --> 00:10:33,633 And so, yeah, the same's true here. 246 00:10:33,633 --> 00:10:34,353 If you. 247 00:10:35,328 --> 00:10:41,778 If you made a good faith effort, but then there were mistakes, uh, and, 248 00:10:41,778 --> 00:10:46,818 and think bad things happen because your backups or Dr isn't good there. 249 00:10:46,848 --> 00:10:49,188 You know, bad things can definitely happen to your company, but like you 250 00:10:49,188 --> 00:10:53,868 said, if they're, if, if it's obvious that you didn't do anything, uh, or you 251 00:10:53,868 --> 00:10:58,188 did such a poor job that it, it showed that you didn't care, then that could 252 00:10:58,188 --> 00:11:01,338 have a significant impact on the business. 253 00:11:01,698 --> 00:11:02,118 Right. 254 00:11:02,268 --> 00:11:02,778 Um. 255 00:11:04,323 --> 00:11:09,993 Um, so, so the question is, when we first start, um, you know, 256 00:11:09,993 --> 00:11:15,843 thinking about this, um, so, you know, why, why is it like that? 257 00:11:15,843 --> 00:11:17,583 You know, is there, can you think of a why? 258 00:11:17,673 --> 00:11:22,233 Why is it that people think about it as not just an insurance policy, 259 00:11:22,233 --> 00:11:27,123 which it really is, but it's, it's an unwanted insurance policy. 260 00:11:27,693 --> 00:11:29,793 It costs them money and there's no benefit. 261 00:11:29,793 --> 00:11:33,783 And it takes people and there's always backup people coming. 262 00:11:33,783 --> 00:11:36,363 And if you follow what we talk about on this podcast, 263 00:11:36,563 --> 00:11:36,853 Yeah. 264 00:11:37,053 --> 00:11:40,053 be involved in every new application that gets deployed, making sure 265 00:11:40,053 --> 00:11:41,283 the backup requirements are there. 266 00:11:41,733 --> 00:11:44,643 On the flip side, everyone's like, why is this person showing up? 267 00:11:44,643 --> 00:11:46,593 Why are they putting additional requirements on me? 268 00:11:46,593 --> 00:11:48,303 Why are they making it such a pain? 269 00:11:49,023 --> 00:11:49,263 Right? 270 00:11:49,263 --> 00:11:51,513 All I wanna do is just build the application and go and 271 00:11:51,513 --> 00:11:52,563 start generating revenue. 272 00:11:53,433 --> 00:11:54,063 Right. 273 00:11:54,123 --> 00:11:55,673 And then he's just that annoying 274 00:11:55,863 --> 00:11:56,153 Yeah, 275 00:11:56,333 --> 00:11:58,883 in the meeting of like, did we buy enough? 276 00:11:59,003 --> 00:11:59,813 Did we buy it up? 277 00:11:59,813 --> 00:12:02,603 Additional capacity, additional, you know, all of the, all of the 278 00:12:02,603 --> 00:12:05,363 things that you have to do when you 279 00:12:05,463 --> 00:12:05,753 yeah, 280 00:12:06,473 --> 00:12:06,563 in 281 00:12:06,733 --> 00:12:07,023 yeah. 282 00:12:07,193 --> 00:12:07,523 did we 283 00:12:07,598 --> 00:12:07,778 I, 284 00:12:07,913 --> 00:12:10,583 the fact that we've never backed up AWS before? 285 00:12:11,363 --> 00:12:12,413 anyone, did anyone 286 00:12:13,178 --> 00:12:13,778 I wanna. 287 00:12:13,853 --> 00:12:14,483 thought about it? 288 00:12:14,873 --> 00:12:17,333 I wonder if people have a Curtis voice when they're in these 289 00:12:17,333 --> 00:12:19,193 meetings as a backup person. 290 00:12:20,753 --> 00:12:21,473 And maybe they're, 291 00:12:21,488 --> 00:12:22,358 somebody that 292 00:12:22,463 --> 00:12:26,033 maybe they, and maybe they have a Curtis on their shoulder. 293 00:12:26,033 --> 00:12:28,703 I wonder who the devil would be on the other shoulder, you know. 294 00:12:30,878 --> 00:12:35,078 the, yeah, we had a guy, uh, going all the way back to my first days of my career, 295 00:12:35,078 --> 00:12:37,418 a guy named Joe Fitzpatrick and he was, 296 00:12:37,658 --> 00:12:38,118 Hi, Joe. 297 00:12:38,138 --> 00:12:38,318 he. 298 00:12:38,963 --> 00:12:39,203 Yeah. 299 00:12:39,203 --> 00:12:42,053 Hi He was that guy. 300 00:12:42,383 --> 00:12:45,533 He would always raise it as, he would always raise his hand and 301 00:12:45,533 --> 00:12:46,823 say, are we getting this on tape? 302 00:12:47,753 --> 00:12:50,813 And he, and he said it with a, you know, with a twinkle in his eye, but 303 00:12:50,813 --> 00:12:54,683 he just wanted to remind people, Hey, is it, are we backing this thing up? 304 00:12:54,683 --> 00:12:56,843 This new amazing thing that you're talking about? 305 00:12:57,468 --> 00:13:00,203 I, I think it's just, it, like you said, it doesn't, it 306 00:13:00,203 --> 00:13:01,493 doesn't make anything faster. 307 00:13:01,493 --> 00:13:03,773 In fact, it, it makes a lot of things slower. 308 00:13:04,433 --> 00:13:07,913 Um, it creates, um, I. 309 00:13:08,783 --> 00:13:12,143 Like there, there's an impact on production, right? 310 00:13:12,143 --> 00:13:13,553 It might slow things down. 311 00:13:13,553 --> 00:13:16,583 It might cause you to do things that you wouldn't have to otherwise do. 312 00:13:16,943 --> 00:13:24,023 I think back again to, again, me with my stories, when I had this, this 313 00:13:24,263 --> 00:13:31,283 knockdown drag out argument with A DBA that didn't want me, hello Oracle people. 314 00:13:31,763 --> 00:13:33,353 He didn't want me to. 315 00:13:33,968 --> 00:13:38,378 Put the database in archive log mode because he had this weird 316 00:13:38,468 --> 00:13:41,828 thing about archive log mode that it somehow caused corruption. 317 00:13:43,628 --> 00:13:44,618 And we're like, what? 318 00:13:44,888 --> 00:13:47,828 Like it's a built in feature of Oracle, right? 319 00:13:47,858 --> 00:13:50,798 And so he didn't want me to turn it on, but if I didn't turn it on, 320 00:13:50,798 --> 00:13:56,048 I couldn't back up this really big server, by the way, really big. 321 00:13:56,078 --> 00:13:57,548 I think it was, um. 322 00:13:58,508 --> 00:14:01,478 I think it was like 300 gigabytes something. 323 00:14:01,478 --> 00:14:02,708 It was, it was huge. 324 00:14:02,849 --> 00:14:04,049 Back in the day. 325 00:14:04,409 --> 00:14:09,869 yeah, and he, he didn't want me to turn it on and because, and he, he 326 00:14:09,869 --> 00:14:15,119 saw that as, again, as an, as an imp impediment to him doing what he needed 327 00:14:15,119 --> 00:14:16,589 to do, which was, you know, be the 328 00:14:16,589 --> 00:14:17,309 DBA of this 329 00:14:17,309 --> 00:14:18,149 Oracle database. 330 00:14:18,149 --> 00:14:23,789 and the other thing is, say for some random reason that you're doing a 331 00:14:23,789 --> 00:14:26,729 backup and the database crashes, who do you think is gonna get blamed? 332 00:14:27,479 --> 00:14:27,929 Right. 333 00:14:28,529 --> 00:14:30,359 yeah, exactly. 334 00:14:30,609 --> 00:14:34,059 And so, you know, it, it, it gives you all these extra requirements. 335 00:14:34,059 --> 00:14:36,219 It, it makes the system cost more money. 336 00:14:36,999 --> 00:14:41,519 Um, you know, I can think of, over my career, the meetings where we've have to 337 00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:46,079 have, it's like, okay, well that server has to have, when we were doing backups 338 00:14:46,079 --> 00:14:47,519 very differently than we do to today. 339 00:14:47,729 --> 00:14:53,249 We had to make sure that every server had a gigabit, um, a separate gigabit. 340 00:14:54,089 --> 00:14:55,379 Nick in it, right? 341 00:14:55,409 --> 00:14:57,479 Because we had like a backup network, which for the 342 00:14:57,659 --> 00:14:57,899 Yeah. 343 00:14:57,989 --> 00:15:02,129 was the cutting edge thing of the day is, was to have a separate backup network. 344 00:15:02,369 --> 00:15:03,839 'cause that way you could get all the backups done. 345 00:15:03,839 --> 00:15:05,249 It didn't impact the production network. 346 00:15:05,309 --> 00:15:05,609 Yep, 347 00:15:06,149 --> 00:15:08,759 Um, it was also more secure because it wasn't connected 348 00:15:08,759 --> 00:15:09,569 to the rest of the network. 349 00:15:09,959 --> 00:15:10,199 yep. 350 00:15:10,769 --> 00:15:13,619 but you know that this costs money. 351 00:15:13,649 --> 00:15:14,219 All of that stuff 352 00:15:14,489 --> 00:15:14,789 Yep. 353 00:15:14,789 --> 00:15:18,539 and, and it slows down the process of acquiring new equipment, new servers. 354 00:15:19,394 --> 00:15:22,244 And, uh, it's, it is, it is just a pain. 355 00:15:22,454 --> 00:15:25,544 Well, I think you need to show value for the business, 356 00:15:25,544 --> 00:15:25,964 Mm-hmm. 357 00:15:26,414 --> 00:15:26,864 right? 358 00:15:27,074 --> 00:15:33,944 How is what you're going to do going to help protect them when things go wrong? 359 00:15:35,234 --> 00:15:40,604 How, for example, how can you tell them, by the way, when 360 00:15:40,604 --> 00:15:43,394 ransomware hits, not if, but when. 361 00:15:44,204 --> 00:15:44,624 Right? 362 00:15:44,894 --> 00:15:48,704 How you can help them get the business back up and running quicker. 363 00:15:49,514 --> 00:15:49,994 Right. 364 00:15:50,624 --> 00:15:52,604 Or get the business up and running at all. 365 00:15:52,604 --> 00:15:55,244 And how you can do it quicker than something else. 366 00:15:55,244 --> 00:15:55,574 Right. 367 00:15:55,574 --> 00:15:56,924 And how you can help them. 368 00:15:58,019 --> 00:16:02,789 Recover and not take a huge impact or a huge loss due to a ransomware 369 00:16:02,789 --> 00:16:04,709 attack or whatever the disaster may be. 370 00:16:05,639 --> 00:16:06,029 Right? 371 00:16:06,494 --> 00:16:11,744 I, I think because, you know, let's just face it, it is an insurance policy, 372 00:16:11,969 --> 00:16:12,179 Yeah. 373 00:16:13,514 --> 00:16:14,294 It is. 374 00:16:15,014 --> 00:16:17,684 The backup system only comes into play. 375 00:16:17,684 --> 00:16:24,854 It's only useful if something bad happens and historically. 376 00:16:26,039 --> 00:16:31,019 We, you know, depending on where you lived, it, it was the, the degree 377 00:16:31,019 --> 00:16:33,719 to which something bad might happen. 378 00:16:34,979 --> 00:16:40,679 If you lived in Florida where I grew up, you, you had a high chance of hurricanes 379 00:16:41,144 --> 00:16:41,354 Yeah. 380 00:16:41,564 --> 00:16:45,914 Or if you live in California where we just had a earthquake about three hours ago. 381 00:16:46,169 --> 00:16:47,429 did we up there, 382 00:16:47,474 --> 00:16:47,804 Yep. 383 00:16:47,804 --> 00:16:52,484 I think it was a 7.8 off the coast of California or of Northern California, 384 00:16:52,514 --> 00:16:54,494 and it triggered a tsunami warning. 385 00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:56,909 Did anything happen 386 00:16:57,194 --> 00:16:57,414 No. 387 00:16:57,809 --> 00:16:58,139 wise? 388 00:16:58,199 --> 00:16:58,529 Okay. 389 00:16:59,639 --> 00:17:05,219 Um, you've got that, you've got tornadoes, obviously in the Midwest and 390 00:17:05,219 --> 00:17:10,049 tornado alley, but if you were outside of these areas, um, you know, you, 391 00:17:10,109 --> 00:17:13,169 you could maybe, and, you know, and then we, for a while there, we started 392 00:17:13,169 --> 00:17:15,029 talking a lot about terrorist attacks. 393 00:17:15,059 --> 00:17:15,329 Yeah, 394 00:17:15,989 --> 00:17:16,379 Um, 395 00:17:16,439 --> 00:17:17,429 insider risk. 396 00:17:17,924 --> 00:17:18,464 Yeah. 397 00:17:18,464 --> 00:17:23,864 And, but yes, insider risk, what I think always was a concern 398 00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:24,329 Yeah. 399 00:17:24,554 --> 00:17:30,944 because of the, the, the problem there mainly I think is two things. 400 00:17:30,944 --> 00:17:35,924 One is a disgruntled employee or a, um. 401 00:17:36,329 --> 00:17:38,249 You know, a, a greedy employee, 402 00:17:38,579 --> 00:17:38,849 Yeah. 403 00:17:38,969 --> 00:17:40,919 going to steal something. 404 00:17:41,219 --> 00:17:44,069 Um, using their, using their access. 405 00:17:44,069 --> 00:17:44,429 Right. 406 00:17:44,909 --> 00:17:47,489 They might even, they might even participate. 407 00:17:47,489 --> 00:17:49,019 There have been, there was I. 408 00:17:49,934 --> 00:17:56,294 A, you remember that story we did last year where the, the, actual, it was from 409 00:17:56,564 --> 00:18:03,704 like, it came to light last year, but it, um, it was from a story from two years ago 410 00:18:04,094 --> 00:18:08,294 and that was an IT guy that basically did a ransomware attack on his own company. 411 00:18:08,354 --> 00:18:08,474 You 412 00:18:08,609 --> 00:18:08,909 Yep. 413 00:18:08,909 --> 00:18:12,544 This is actually, uh, unified ubiquity. 414 00:18:13,004 --> 00:18:13,484 Yeah. 415 00:18:14,444 --> 00:18:15,104 Um. 416 00:18:15,584 --> 00:18:18,764 So, you know, the, the, that's another thing. 417 00:18:18,769 --> 00:18:20,474 And, and, and then ransomware. 418 00:18:21,839 --> 00:18:24,554 The, the difference, the reason why I was saying before, like, you know, if 419 00:18:24,554 --> 00:18:27,014 you have one thing in Florida, another thing in California, another thing in the 420 00:18:27,014 --> 00:18:32,054 Midwest, um, and, and you know, I know nothing about the natural disasters that 421 00:18:32,054 --> 00:18:34,544 impact people in the rest of the world. 422 00:18:35,384 --> 00:18:42,494 Um, you know, the, other than that tsunami and Myanmar, uh, that was a mess. 423 00:18:42,944 --> 00:18:43,364 Um. 424 00:18:44,054 --> 00:18:48,434 And, the fires in, uh, Australia, but I don't know what, like on re on a 425 00:18:48,434 --> 00:18:50,264 regular basis what impacts certain areas. 426 00:18:50,714 --> 00:18:55,754 But the thing about that is you're like, ah, it's probably not gonna happen to me. 427 00:18:56,159 --> 00:18:56,489 Yeah. 428 00:18:56,534 --> 00:18:59,864 can, we can ensure against that in other ways. 429 00:18:59,864 --> 00:19:04,274 Meaning, you know, get a really good building, build, 430 00:19:04,304 --> 00:19:06,194 hire, get, you know, whatever. 431 00:19:06,284 --> 00:19:07,484 you don't need to worry about the data. 432 00:19:08,069 --> 00:19:13,709 Yeah, you don't need to worry about the data, but a ransomware attack changes all 433 00:19:13,709 --> 00:19:18,809 of those things, and a couple of reasons. 434 00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:23,489 One is, and you've brought it up already, the, the, it's not a, 435 00:19:23,489 --> 00:19:25,589 it's not a if it's a win, right. 436 00:19:27,284 --> 00:19:27,554 Yep. 437 00:19:28,064 --> 00:19:31,724 Yeah, because if you look at how many attacks are happening all the time 438 00:19:32,114 --> 00:19:37,214 and the cost of recovering, I actually just read today, no, yesterday. 439 00:19:37,604 --> 00:19:38,924 So you know, the vodka maker stole, 440 00:19:39,809 --> 00:19:40,259 Yep. 441 00:19:40,664 --> 00:19:42,584 they got hit by a ransomware attack in August. 442 00:19:43,064 --> 00:19:43,994 They're still down. 443 00:19:44,564 --> 00:19:47,744 They don't think they would recover till 2025, and they just declare bankruptcy. 444 00:19:48,629 --> 00:19:49,349 Really. 445 00:19:49,604 --> 00:19:49,784 Yep. 446 00:19:50,624 --> 00:19:51,134 You know what? 447 00:19:51,134 --> 00:19:52,634 I think I did see that. 448 00:19:52,634 --> 00:19:54,254 Yes, they did just clear, yeah. 449 00:19:54,254 --> 00:19:56,954 They declared bankruptcy because of a ransomware attack. 450 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,429 Ransomware plus some other things happening in Russia, but yeah. 451 00:19:59,834 --> 00:20:00,794 Right, right. 452 00:20:00,809 --> 00:20:00,929 Yeah. 453 00:20:01,934 --> 00:20:08,774 So really what we're talking about is when you, when you're trying to sell 454 00:20:08,774 --> 00:20:13,784 insurance, you need to convince the other person that they need the insurance. 455 00:20:13,854 --> 00:20:14,144 Yeah. 456 00:20:14,354 --> 00:20:20,654 In this case, you're, you need to convince upper management the odds of having 457 00:20:20,654 --> 00:20:23,864 nothing happen to them are virtually 458 00:20:23,864 --> 00:20:25,154 nil at this point, 459 00:20:25,184 --> 00:20:25,664 right? 460 00:20:25,844 --> 00:20:30,344 and I think you don't even need to go directly to upper management. 461 00:20:30,439 --> 00:20:30,859 Mm-hmm. 462 00:20:31,214 --> 00:20:35,294 I think you should partner up with your, normally there is a GRC team, right? 463 00:20:35,299 --> 00:20:35,589 A risk. 464 00:20:36,254 --> 00:20:37,994 Team at a company. 465 00:20:38,054 --> 00:20:41,714 That's who I think you should be partnering with to sell 466 00:20:41,714 --> 00:20:43,274 your case to executives. 467 00:20:43,274 --> 00:20:47,204 Because what you think about from a data protection is just part of the overall 468 00:20:47,204 --> 00:20:48,674 risk profile of the company, right? 469 00:20:48,674 --> 00:20:54,074 There are people and processes and technology and equipment and 470 00:20:54,404 --> 00:20:57,404 locations and all these other things that that team is worrying about, 471 00:20:57,474 --> 00:20:57,894 Mm-hmm. 472 00:20:58,394 --> 00:21:00,704 and those are the people you should be partnering with 473 00:21:01,144 --> 00:21:02,634 What does GRD stand for? 474 00:21:03,134 --> 00:21:04,759 uh, governance risk compliance. 475 00:21:05,014 --> 00:21:05,699 Thank you. 476 00:21:07,319 --> 00:21:10,829 Um, well, let me ask you this. 477 00:21:11,549 --> 00:21:12,959 I, I agree with you. 478 00:21:14,249 --> 00:21:15,239 I also, 479 00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:16,349 Disagree. 480 00:21:16,554 --> 00:21:16,994 I agree. 481 00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:18,239 I don't, I don't disagree. 482 00:21:18,449 --> 00:21:23,009 It's just, I, I like the idea of going to the G-R-P-G-R-C folks. 483 00:21:24,209 --> 00:21:28,709 My concern if you don't at least work your chain, 484 00:21:28,889 --> 00:21:29,219 Yeah. 485 00:21:29,549 --> 00:21:30,749 You should do that as well. 486 00:21:30,869 --> 00:21:31,169 Yeah. 487 00:21:31,229 --> 00:21:34,019 could find yourself in a, like, like, it's like you're trying to go over their 488 00:21:34,094 --> 00:21:34,274 Yeah. 489 00:21:34,274 --> 00:21:34,514 Yeah. 490 00:21:34,724 --> 00:21:35,084 No, no, no. 491 00:21:35,084 --> 00:21:35,954 I, I agree with that. 492 00:21:35,954 --> 00:21:36,074 Yeah. 493 00:21:36,074 --> 00:21:37,244 You should work up your chain. 494 00:21:37,244 --> 00:21:40,934 But just going directly to like executive leadership, right? 495 00:21:40,934 --> 00:21:43,724 I think you want to go with a broader message, but I definitely 496 00:21:43,724 --> 00:21:47,504 think you are gonna need the buy-in of your own leadership to 497 00:21:47,504 --> 00:21:49,004 be like, Hey, this is important. 498 00:21:49,004 --> 00:21:50,174 These are the risks. 499 00:21:50,564 --> 00:21:53,654 Because they have to be worried about that because say something happens, you 500 00:21:53,654 --> 00:21:57,824 got hit with a ransomware attack, you're down for three months, whose neck do you 501 00:21:57,824 --> 00:21:59,054 think is gonna be on the chopping block? 502 00:21:59,994 --> 00:22:00,374 Yeah. 503 00:22:01,094 --> 00:22:06,194 You know, um, I, I, I just, I learned a long time ago the, the 504 00:22:06,194 --> 00:22:08,144 importance of the chain of command. 505 00:22:08,414 --> 00:22:08,804 Right. 506 00:22:09,704 --> 00:22:11,804 And you probably learned that in your Navy days too, right? 507 00:22:12,314 --> 00:22:13,004 I, well, 508 00:22:13,214 --> 00:22:13,274 Yeah. 509 00:22:13,394 --> 00:22:17,294 definitely in the Navy days, but, my favorite story about the importance 510 00:22:17,294 --> 00:22:23,024 of the chain of command, um, was taught to me when being a waiter at 511 00:22:23,204 --> 00:22:23,294 Hmm. 512 00:22:24,404 --> 00:22:31,214 and when we had this cook who was insane, um, the, the story was 513 00:22:31,214 --> 00:22:33,104 he literally killed his wife and 514 00:22:33,469 --> 00:22:34,154 Oh wow. 515 00:22:34,694 --> 00:22:37,394 and, and had served his time and was now our cook. 516 00:22:37,604 --> 00:22:43,064 That was literally, was literally the story of this guy, and he was a terror. 517 00:22:43,544 --> 00:22:45,044 To have in the kitchen. 518 00:22:46,514 --> 00:22:47,774 And I worked swing shift. 519 00:22:47,984 --> 00:22:51,164 He was the, he was the night cook, so he would come in at midnight 520 00:22:51,524 --> 00:22:51,734 Yeah, 521 00:22:51,914 --> 00:22:56,354 and, and so half of my shift was this guy he was horrible. 522 00:22:56,354 --> 00:22:58,094 And he would co, he cost me tips all the time. 523 00:22:58,394 --> 00:23:00,404 And I went to my manager and he didn't do anything. 524 00:23:01,154 --> 00:23:05,504 And so, um, I mean, technically in this story I followed chain, 525 00:23:05,564 --> 00:23:06,669 the chain of command, but. 526 00:23:07,589 --> 00:23:07,919 I 527 00:23:07,994 --> 00:23:09,224 weren't getting any results. 528 00:23:09,269 --> 00:23:11,279 like, if you don't do something, I'm gonna go, 529 00:23:11,289 --> 00:23:11,579 Yeah. 530 00:23:11,609 --> 00:23:12,059 I'm gonna go. 531 00:23:12,299 --> 00:23:15,839 So I went to the manager of the store and I told, I told the manager of the 532 00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:19,589 store versus the assistant manager, and then the next day I came in. 533 00:23:20,414 --> 00:23:25,364 And, um, yeah, so, so I'm gonna tell the story, but the lesson, I 534 00:23:25,364 --> 00:23:29,054 think the lesson I learned in this story is more like, know your place. 535 00:23:29,534 --> 00:23:29,594 Yeah. 536 00:23:30,914 --> 00:23:34,454 is that I, I went to the manager and then when I came in the next day, the assistant 537 00:23:34,454 --> 00:23:37,724 manager called me into his office, which, and by office, I mean like, you know, this 538 00:23:38,054 --> 00:23:38,474 Yeah. 539 00:23:38,594 --> 00:23:39,074 Booth. 540 00:23:39,129 --> 00:23:39,419 Yeah. 541 00:23:39,434 --> 00:23:39,494 know? 542 00:23:40,484 --> 00:23:44,534 And, and he, um, and he said, uh, so I heard you went to, you know, 543 00:23:44,534 --> 00:23:45,494 management or whatever, you know? 544 00:23:45,794 --> 00:23:46,034 Yeah. 545 00:23:46,424 --> 00:23:46,934 I said, yeah. 546 00:23:47,834 --> 00:23:48,974 And he said, um. 547 00:23:49,679 --> 00:23:54,389 Do you know who, if, if, if we fire bill, whatever his name was, if we fire 548 00:23:54,389 --> 00:23:57,479 Bill, do you know who has to cook me? 549 00:23:59,399 --> 00:24:02,159 And he said I would have to replace him if I fired him. 550 00:24:02,729 --> 00:24:08,429 Do you know how many cook, how many applications I got last year for cooks? 551 00:24:09,534 --> 00:24:10,349 And, and, and he 552 00:24:10,524 --> 00:24:10,744 One. 553 00:24:11,399 --> 00:24:11,819 wasted 554 00:24:12,124 --> 00:24:12,414 Yeah. 555 00:24:12,414 --> 00:24:12,694 Okay. 556 00:24:13,049 --> 00:24:18,869 He said one of the three thought maybe he kind of might wanna work nights. 557 00:24:19,889 --> 00:24:23,759 So basically that's like zero applications for nighttime cooks 558 00:24:23,999 --> 00:24:24,209 Yeah. 559 00:24:24,719 --> 00:24:30,089 year, do you know how many applications I got for waiters last week? 560 00:24:31,919 --> 00:24:32,249 Yeah. 561 00:24:32,249 --> 00:24:36,899 He is like, yeah, that's where you know your pecking order, Curtis. 562 00:24:37,094 --> 00:24:40,474 If you, if if I'm gonna get rid of one of the two of you, it 563 00:24:40,474 --> 00:24:41,879 ain't, it ain't gonna be the guy 564 00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:42,539 Yeah. 565 00:24:42,539 --> 00:24:43,409 can't replace. 566 00:24:44,639 --> 00:24:45,719 Um, yeah. 567 00:24:45,719 --> 00:24:49,889 So it just understand in a, especially in a corporate environment, that there 568 00:24:49,889 --> 00:24:55,169 is a chain of command that, that you do want to make sure you, you do your best 569 00:24:55,634 --> 00:24:55,754 Yeah. 570 00:24:56,054 --> 00:24:56,384 And 571 00:24:56,489 --> 00:24:56,639 and 572 00:24:56,774 --> 00:25:00,374 the other, one other thing to add to that too is you. 573 00:25:00,704 --> 00:25:04,574 As a backup person, you don't have the overall visibility into everything 574 00:25:04,574 --> 00:25:08,324 going on within the department, right, or across the company. 575 00:25:08,324 --> 00:25:11,834 So it's important because what you think is important may not 576 00:25:11,834 --> 00:25:13,844 be part of the overall strategy. 577 00:25:14,084 --> 00:25:16,694 Maybe it should be included in the overall strategy, or maybe 578 00:25:16,694 --> 00:25:20,654 it's just there are other fires that need to be dealt with then. 579 00:25:20,654 --> 00:25:24,104 So what you think is important is not really overall important for the company. 580 00:25:24,494 --> 00:25:26,624 Yeah, thanks for bringing that up because. 581 00:25:28,059 --> 00:25:31,064 E, every department within it 582 00:25:33,824 --> 00:25:39,134 thinks that their budget isn't big enough and their thing is important 583 00:25:39,374 --> 00:25:41,294 and their thing needs to happen, right. 584 00:25:42,554 --> 00:25:46,169 It's just that of the other departments. 585 00:25:47,444 --> 00:25:51,884 When you say things like, our database isn't fast enough, our customers can't 586 00:25:51,884 --> 00:25:55,544 do the thing, and the boss is like, how much money do I need to give you? 587 00:25:56,039 --> 00:25:56,259 Yep. 588 00:25:56,294 --> 00:25:56,654 Right. 589 00:25:56,984 --> 00:25:57,464 With us? 590 00:25:57,464 --> 00:26:00,404 It's like our backup system fa isn't fast enough. 591 00:26:02,084 --> 00:26:02,474 So, 592 00:26:02,894 --> 00:26:03,734 what do I care? 593 00:26:03,764 --> 00:26:04,184 Right? 594 00:26:04,514 --> 00:26:08,804 Um, so you have to translate it into language that they understand, right? 595 00:26:08,804 --> 00:26:08,864 You 596 00:26:08,924 --> 00:26:09,194 yeah. 597 00:26:09,524 --> 00:26:10,484 it into financial. 598 00:26:11,204 --> 00:26:11,744 Risk. 599 00:26:12,044 --> 00:26:14,594 Risk to the company, risk to going out of business. 600 00:26:14,594 --> 00:26:16,994 I think this, this article would be great. 601 00:26:16,994 --> 00:26:18,434 The one about, uh, stoly 602 00:26:18,764 --> 00:26:19,034 Yep. 603 00:26:19,244 --> 00:26:23,594 and, um, there are companies that do cease to exist, uh, 604 00:26:23,834 --> 00:26:25,454 that entire series on that. 605 00:26:25,454 --> 00:26:25,784 Right? 606 00:26:26,084 --> 00:26:27,614 Yeah, yeah, we did, we did. 607 00:26:27,614 --> 00:26:31,814 Uh, there, there's an entire series on cloud, uh, disasters. 608 00:26:31,814 --> 00:26:32,954 When you. 609 00:26:33,824 --> 00:26:39,164 Perhaps what you do is you work your chain, and if you just get to a part 610 00:26:39,164 --> 00:26:45,344 where you get somebody who just doesn't fully understand the, you know, the 611 00:26:45,344 --> 00:26:50,694 risk, what you might then say is, do you think I should involve the GRC folks? 612 00:26:50,784 --> 00:26:51,144 Right. 613 00:26:51,144 --> 00:26:53,184 And you say that not in like a threat, 614 00:26:53,724 --> 00:26:53,934 Yeah. 615 00:26:54,414 --> 00:26:58,374 you know, this is a, do you think perhaps the GRC folks could help us out? 616 00:26:58,374 --> 00:27:01,374 Like in terms of selling it up the chain? 617 00:27:01,584 --> 00:27:01,874 Yeah. 618 00:27:01,914 --> 00:27:02,274 Right. 619 00:27:02,304 --> 00:27:02,964 Work where? 620 00:27:03,084 --> 00:27:05,154 Work to where you think you can have an effect. 621 00:27:06,234 --> 00:27:09,294 Do you think the GRC folks would help us selling it up the chain? 622 00:27:09,344 --> 00:27:09,634 Yeah. 623 00:27:10,314 --> 00:27:15,384 Use them as a, as a, as a partner rather than as an enemy 624 00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:15,819 Yep. 625 00:27:15,894 --> 00:27:16,404 of 626 00:27:16,719 --> 00:27:17,049 Mm-hmm. 627 00:27:17,094 --> 00:27:17,904 you know, management. 628 00:27:18,594 --> 00:27:26,154 will say that sometimes you go to make a, an argument. 629 00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:28,264 And you lose. 630 00:27:29,139 --> 00:27:36,189 Well, not just you, but you get someone in management who clearly 631 00:27:36,429 --> 00:27:37,899 should not be in management 632 00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:38,439 Hmm. 633 00:27:38,499 --> 00:27:42,279 it, and they literally say things like, well, that would never happen. 634 00:27:42,369 --> 00:27:43,809 We're never gonna get a ransomware attack. 635 00:27:44,109 --> 00:27:46,029 We're we got great, we got great security. 636 00:27:47,049 --> 00:27:51,099 You know, we got Steve over there on the, on the firewall 637 00:27:51,099 --> 00:27:52,869 and he's just, he's just amazing. 638 00:27:53,139 --> 00:27:53,559 Right? 639 00:27:54,429 --> 00:27:55,239 Um. 640 00:27:56,469 --> 00:28:03,189 When you get that right when you hear something like I, I've heard things again. 641 00:28:03,189 --> 00:28:06,429 Like, well, if that happens, I'm probably gonna be dead, so I'm 642 00:28:06,449 --> 00:28:06,739 Yeah. 643 00:28:06,744 --> 00:28:06,894 Yeah. 644 00:28:07,989 --> 00:28:09,129 you know, whatever. 645 00:28:09,129 --> 00:28:10,449 Or I'll probably be fired. 646 00:28:10,449 --> 00:28:12,069 I'll probably be fired either way. 647 00:28:12,069 --> 00:28:12,999 So I don't really care. 648 00:28:12,999 --> 00:28:17,499 I don't really care so much about the longevity of the company as I 649 00:28:17,529 --> 00:28:17,799 Yeah. 650 00:28:18,069 --> 00:28:19,269 the longevity of my job. 651 00:28:19,884 --> 00:28:20,174 Yeah. 652 00:28:21,669 --> 00:28:25,179 When you get that, that you know that that's the only time where 653 00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:28,479 I, I think maybe it is time for you to make a career decision. 654 00:28:28,509 --> 00:28:32,619 Like if you have upper management that just doesn't care about the viability 655 00:28:32,619 --> 00:28:37,569 of your organization, maybe it's time to go convince another organization 656 00:28:37,939 --> 00:28:43,039 and maybe you leaving is the, you know, the kicker that you know that 657 00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:43,549 will help. 658 00:28:43,879 --> 00:28:48,769 well, the other thing I was also going to mention is when you do get 659 00:28:48,769 --> 00:28:53,689 that conversation, just summarize your discussion with that person 660 00:28:53,689 --> 00:28:54,476 and send it an email to them. 661 00:28:56,164 --> 00:28:56,794 Yes. 662 00:28:57,169 --> 00:29:02,059 To make sure that it has been documented that yes, this was discussed, this was 663 00:29:02,059 --> 00:29:07,219 flagged, here was the concerns, here's what we had or here's what was decided. 664 00:29:07,894 --> 00:29:08,374 right. 665 00:29:09,289 --> 00:29:10,609 So you can make, 666 00:29:10,654 --> 00:29:11,164 nothing. 667 00:29:11,749 --> 00:29:15,469 yeah, and there might be constraints, but, but there. 668 00:29:15,544 --> 00:29:16,864 changes at this time, 669 00:29:17,014 --> 00:29:18,124 Yeah, and that's okay. 670 00:29:18,124 --> 00:29:21,064 That's reasonable because it may not even be malicious, right? 671 00:29:21,064 --> 00:29:24,124 It could be we just don't have the budget this cycle. 672 00:29:24,274 --> 00:29:26,884 We have 20 other fires we're trying to put out. 673 00:29:27,214 --> 00:29:28,954 We're all strapped for cash, right? 674 00:29:28,954 --> 00:29:30,364 Whatever it is, right? 675 00:29:30,364 --> 00:29:33,274 There might also be legitimate reasons, but regardless of what 676 00:29:33,274 --> 00:29:38,644 happens once you get to that point where there's a no given, right? 677 00:29:38,644 --> 00:29:40,954 Or someone says No, I think it's important to document. 678 00:29:42,499 --> 00:29:43,009 Agreed. 679 00:29:43,009 --> 00:29:48,139 And um, be careful how you word that, right. 680 00:29:48,829 --> 00:29:49,994 Um, the, the, 681 00:29:50,254 --> 00:29:51,514 don't put place blame. 682 00:29:51,544 --> 00:29:51,814 Yeah, 683 00:29:51,949 --> 00:29:54,109 they know, they know the reason 684 00:29:54,369 --> 00:29:54,659 yeah, 685 00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:56,179 you're doing it, right. 686 00:29:56,989 --> 00:30:01,129 just, um, just say, you know, apparently, you know, based on what 687 00:30:01,129 --> 00:30:03,709 you said, the, the, the department does not have budget at this 688 00:30:03,829 --> 00:30:04,119 yeah. 689 00:30:04,369 --> 00:30:04,759 Whatever. 690 00:30:04,759 --> 00:30:07,519 You just, you put it in, like you said, you put it, you just want to. 691 00:30:07,954 --> 00:30:09,994 This is the facts of what happened in the meeting. 692 00:30:10,294 --> 00:30:14,434 Just wanna summarize, just wanna, and again, this goes over much 693 00:30:14,434 --> 00:30:16,024 better if you always do that. 694 00:30:16,394 --> 00:30:16,564 Yeah. 695 00:30:18,184 --> 00:30:18,574 Right? 696 00:30:18,719 --> 00:30:18,939 Yep. 697 00:30:19,354 --> 00:30:20,914 send an email summarizing the meeting. 698 00:30:20,944 --> 00:30:24,184 'cause probably what'll happen is they'll just ignore the one 699 00:30:24,579 --> 00:30:24,869 Yeah. 700 00:30:24,994 --> 00:30:27,964 you send that is trying to document that they're not giving you what you want. 701 00:30:28,264 --> 00:30:28,504 Yeah. 702 00:30:29,164 --> 00:30:29,554 Right? 703 00:30:29,554 --> 00:30:37,864 I think the key thing here that you do have in your favor is ransomware, 704 00:30:38,299 --> 00:30:38,509 Yep. 705 00:30:39,364 --> 00:30:42,514 Because ransomware, you, you don't have to go very far, 706 00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:45,979 To see someone impacted by it, 707 00:30:46,474 --> 00:30:47,224 well, right? 708 00:30:47,224 --> 00:30:48,694 To find somebody that's impacted by it. 709 00:30:48,694 --> 00:30:52,564 But also you don't have to, if you Google anything, you read 710 00:30:52,704 --> 00:30:52,924 eh. 711 00:30:53,074 --> 00:30:53,734 you're gonna hear. 712 00:30:53,734 --> 00:30:54,724 It's not if it's when. 713 00:30:56,434 --> 00:30:59,104 Every, you know, every ransomware book is gonna 714 00:30:59,389 --> 00:30:59,679 Yeah. 715 00:30:59,794 --> 00:31:02,824 you that, you know, the one that I'm working on now, we start 716 00:31:02,824 --> 00:31:04,534 from an assumed breach standpoint 717 00:31:04,619 --> 00:31:04,909 Yeah. 718 00:31:04,984 --> 00:31:09,484 the, because it's just like, look, know, first off, there, there are plenty of 719 00:31:09,484 --> 00:31:13,894 other books that are how to stop it, but we're like, look, you're gonna get it. 720 00:31:14,374 --> 00:31:14,794 So. 721 00:31:14,854 --> 00:31:16,744 you, you can, you can get lots of. 722 00:31:17,524 --> 00:31:22,024 Information to back up your argument because what you need to do, you need to, 723 00:31:22,234 --> 00:31:28,234 you need to convince the people with the purse strings that the likelihood of this 724 00:31:28,234 --> 00:31:30,124 thing that you're worried about happening 725 00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:31,219 Is high 726 00:31:31,744 --> 00:31:33,754 is extremely high. 727 00:31:34,114 --> 00:31:39,244 and you just wanna say, listen, here are, here is our current backup posture, 728 00:31:39,619 --> 00:31:39,829 Yeah. 729 00:31:40,204 --> 00:31:45,334 which is that if that were to happen, and they took out our entire data center. 730 00:31:46,639 --> 00:31:51,529 It's going to take, um, you know, it's going to make it, you 731 00:31:51,529 --> 00:31:53,089 know, to basically take too long. 732 00:31:53,294 --> 00:31:53,584 Yeah, 733 00:31:53,629 --> 00:31:57,049 might not ever be able to recover, um, et cetera. 734 00:31:57,444 --> 00:32:03,329 Especially if the worry that you have is that the backup system is also 735 00:32:03,569 --> 00:32:05,484 vulnerable to a ransomware attack. 736 00:32:06,384 --> 00:32:10,074 It's one thing to say, because of our backup system is so slow, it's 737 00:32:10,074 --> 00:32:11,994 gonna take us six months to recover. 738 00:32:12,879 --> 00:32:14,559 an entirely different thing to say. 739 00:32:14,619 --> 00:32:20,662 We stand a significant chance of having the backup system be impacted from 740 00:32:20,662 --> 00:32:21,952 a, a ransomware standpoint. 741 00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:24,159 it's, it's, it's your last line of defense, right? 742 00:32:24,159 --> 00:32:28,569 And if that's not reliable, then you're a little hosed when you're 743 00:32:28,569 --> 00:32:31,599 bring talking about this Curtis, one other thing I was thinking about 744 00:32:31,599 --> 00:32:35,829 is, especially with ransomware, go partner with the security team, 745 00:32:37,059 --> 00:32:37,629 Yes. 746 00:32:37,629 --> 00:32:37,689 It. 747 00:32:38,019 --> 00:32:38,379 right? 748 00:32:38,439 --> 00:32:39,909 They're usually the ones with budgets. 749 00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:41,889 They're usually the ones that people listen to. 750 00:32:43,089 --> 00:32:43,419 Yeah. 751 00:32:43,419 --> 00:32:44,529 It's funny you say that 752 00:32:44,639 --> 00:32:44,929 Yeah. 753 00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:49,629 historically, me as a backup person, back in the day, I 754 00:32:49,629 --> 00:32:52,599 hated the security team, right? 755 00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:56,049 They were, they were always the ones, you know, blocking up ports and, you 756 00:32:56,049 --> 00:32:57,699 know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 757 00:32:57,699 --> 00:33:01,779 Like, again, going all the way back to my early days, the only way I could get 758 00:33:01,779 --> 00:33:06,489 backups done in a reasonable way was to use RSH because we, we were using 759 00:33:06,489 --> 00:33:08,969 rdump and the only way to use rdump. 760 00:33:09,429 --> 00:33:15,329 Was to have RSH as root without a password from server to server. 761 00:33:15,719 --> 00:33:16,169 And that's the 762 00:33:16,244 --> 00:33:17,264 Oh boy. 763 00:33:17,369 --> 00:33:17,819 it done. 764 00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:18,359 Right. 765 00:33:18,719 --> 00:33:22,529 And it was either that or buy tape libraries for every server, 766 00:33:22,709 --> 00:33:22,999 Yeah. 767 00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:27,079 Um, and so of course, and of course the, the security people 768 00:33:27,079 --> 00:33:28,399 thought that was ridiculous, 769 00:33:28,449 --> 00:33:28,739 Yeah. 770 00:33:29,004 --> 00:33:29,884 I dunno what to do. 771 00:33:30,024 --> 00:33:31,789 You, I, I, I don't, I can't. 772 00:33:31,789 --> 00:33:32,089 I can't. 773 00:33:32,269 --> 00:33:33,919 So we were at, we were at odds, 774 00:33:34,124 --> 00:33:34,394 Yeah. 775 00:33:34,819 --> 00:33:39,529 I definitely that things have, things have changed so much for me that the 776 00:33:39,529 --> 00:33:42,529 security people are your friends when it 777 00:33:42,704 --> 00:33:43,034 Yep. 778 00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:47,239 budget for backup and recovery and disaster recovery. 779 00:33:47,504 --> 00:33:47,804 Yep. 780 00:33:48,469 --> 00:33:49,759 especially when it comes to ransomware. 781 00:33:50,654 --> 00:33:52,904 So you, they have common goals, 782 00:33:53,594 --> 00:33:53,954 Yeah. 783 00:33:54,134 --> 00:33:54,524 right? 784 00:33:54,644 --> 00:33:55,604 Protect the business. 785 00:33:55,604 --> 00:33:56,174 Recover. 786 00:33:56,534 --> 00:33:58,154 I heard pot of gold at first and 787 00:33:58,154 --> 00:33:58,514 Oh, 788 00:33:58,754 --> 00:33:59,414 confused. 789 00:34:01,904 --> 00:34:02,654 lucky Charms. 790 00:34:03,134 --> 00:34:07,094 yeah, no, I think, I think that's a per, I think, I think that'll, and we, 791 00:34:07,094 --> 00:34:11,114 we can kind of end on that, that, that I think that's your, the, the, the risk 792 00:34:11,144 --> 00:34:15,764 folks are your partners, but the security people, I think are really, because 793 00:34:15,764 --> 00:34:18,434 they're, they're really core and part of 794 00:34:18,539 --> 00:34:18,779 Yeah. 795 00:34:18,914 --> 00:34:19,514 department. 796 00:34:20,054 --> 00:34:24,494 Um, and that's why some have advocated, and we've discussed this on the podcast, 797 00:34:24,494 --> 00:34:30,344 some have advocated that the backup folks actually report to the security folks. 798 00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:31,049 Mm-hmm. 799 00:34:32,024 --> 00:34:32,864 I don't know, I think it's a 800 00:34:32,864 --> 00:34:33,074 Hmm. 801 00:34:33,254 --> 00:34:33,824 separate diff 802 00:34:33,944 --> 00:34:34,214 Yeah. 803 00:34:34,454 --> 00:34:34,754 but, 804 00:34:36,854 --> 00:34:38,654 the, yeah, I think that's solid. 805 00:34:38,654 --> 00:34:42,134 And by the way, this has nothing to do with the podcast, but I'm 806 00:34:42,134 --> 00:34:45,104 gonna say this, you, you've got different lighting today, don't you? 807 00:34:45,884 --> 00:34:48,074 Uh, no. 808 00:34:48,074 --> 00:34:49,574 I have the same lighting I normally do. 809 00:34:49,909 --> 00:34:52,394 Uh, I don't know, just there's something about the way the 810 00:34:52,394 --> 00:34:53,984 light is hitting your face. 811 00:34:54,794 --> 00:34:57,584 look like, it's like you're an AI photo. 812 00:34:59,384 --> 00:35:03,224 You, it looks really good, but it looks so good that like 813 00:35:03,284 --> 00:35:04,934 you look like you might be ai. 814 00:35:05,144 --> 00:35:06,074 Are you ai 815 00:35:06,344 --> 00:35:07,664 Yes, I am AI 816 00:35:07,934 --> 00:35:08,774 let me ask you this. 817 00:35:08,834 --> 00:35:10,964 How many Rs are in strawberry? 818 00:35:11,684 --> 00:35:11,954 four. 819 00:35:15,324 --> 00:35:16,109 It's three deep. 820 00:35:16,829 --> 00:35:17,149 I know. 821 00:35:17,999 --> 00:35:18,809 Do you know this thing about 822 00:35:18,944 --> 00:35:19,634 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 823 00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:20,234 It, it got it. 824 00:35:20,324 --> 00:35:21,164 It keeps getting it wrong. 825 00:35:21,479 --> 00:35:22,679 yeah, yeah. 826 00:35:22,904 --> 00:35:24,344 I think it actually says two, right? 827 00:35:24,629 --> 00:35:25,229 it says two. 828 00:35:25,229 --> 00:35:25,739 Yeah. 829 00:35:25,784 --> 00:35:26,024 Yeah. 830 00:35:26,789 --> 00:35:27,989 Um, yeah. 831 00:35:27,989 --> 00:35:28,559 Anyway, 832 00:35:28,649 --> 00:35:29,409 why I said four. 833 00:35:29,969 --> 00:35:33,239 it's just, I've been looking at your face all this time, but I'm like, there's just 834 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:34,739 something about the way you look today. 835 00:35:37,154 --> 00:35:37,574 I don't know. 836 00:35:38,504 --> 00:35:41,174 Maybe you're ai, maybe you've been replaced and you don't know. 837 00:35:42,314 --> 00:35:44,684 Maybe we're all ai, maybe we're all in a simulation. 838 00:35:44,684 --> 00:35:45,254 Who knows? 839 00:35:45,944 --> 00:35:47,834 But I think that's, I think that's the key. 840 00:35:48,314 --> 00:35:49,304 Work your chain. 841 00:35:50,114 --> 00:35:51,554 You know, sell risk. 842 00:35:51,584 --> 00:35:52,934 You've got to sell risk. 843 00:35:52,934 --> 00:35:58,634 You've got to sell the, the, the high probability of a ransomware risk. 844 00:35:59,324 --> 00:36:04,484 Use the security folks, use the risk folks as your partners in 845 00:36:04,484 --> 00:36:05,804 trying to help get this done. 846 00:36:06,524 --> 00:36:14,234 And um, and honestly, if in the end you do all that and you have a management chain 847 00:36:14,234 --> 00:36:18,644 that just refuses to acknowledge that risk, suggest you look somewhere else. 848 00:36:18,869 --> 00:36:19,159 Yeah. 849 00:36:20,534 --> 00:36:21,194 that's just me. 850 00:36:21,549 --> 00:36:21,839 Yeah. 851 00:36:22,754 --> 00:36:24,074 any final thoughts from you, sir? 852 00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:28,364 No, I think that's, yeah, that's a good episode. 853 00:36:28,364 --> 00:36:28,844 I think. 854 00:36:29,414 --> 00:36:32,924 Yeah, that's all I had other than don't, you should go watch Wicked again. 855 00:36:34,394 --> 00:36:34,994 Me? 856 00:36:35,324 --> 00:36:35,834 Yes. 857 00:36:35,834 --> 00:36:35,864 I. 858 00:36:35,984 --> 00:36:36,404 think so. 859 00:36:37,604 --> 00:36:38,534 I've got other things. 860 00:36:38,534 --> 00:36:39,764 I've got other things I gotta do. 861 00:36:40,364 --> 00:36:40,814 All right. 862 00:36:40,814 --> 00:36:41,924 Well thank you very much. 863 00:36:43,799 --> 00:36:44,669 Anytime Curtis. 864 00:36:44,894 --> 00:36:46,904 You and your gorgeously lit face today. 865 00:36:46,904 --> 00:36:48,404 I don't know what, I don't know what that's about. 866 00:36:48,404 --> 00:36:48,824 Anyway. 867 00:36:49,214 --> 00:36:49,604 All right. 868 00:36:49,604 --> 00:36:50,894 Thank you to our listeners. 869 00:36:51,194 --> 00:36:55,064 I, um, you know, we're nothing without you, so, uh, be sure to 870 00:36:55,064 --> 00:36:58,154 subscribe and, um, that is a wrap. 871 00:37:01,064 --> 00:37:05,744 The backup wrap up is written, recorded, and produced by me w Curtis Preston. 872 00:37:06,314 --> 00:37:07,784 If you need backup or Dr. 873 00:37:07,784 --> 00:37:11,414 Consulting content generation or expert witness work, 874 00:37:11,714 --> 00:37:13,694 check out backup central.com. 875 00:37:14,414 --> 00:37:17,534 You can also find links from my O'Reilly Books on the same website. 876 00:37:18,194 --> 00:37:22,184 Remember, this is an independent podcast and any opinions that 877 00:37:22,184 --> 00:37:26,084 you hear are those of the speaker and not necessarily an employer. 878 00:37:27,014 --> 00:37:27,704 Thanks for listening.