Speaker A: It is time for another Lawyer Talk Q and A. That is, we have a question on the Lawyer Talk website at Lawyer Talk Podcast.com where people can submit questions and yours truly, that is. I, Stephen E. Palmer will do my best to answer your question. Now those who have been listening for.
Speaker B: Some time know that we do a.
Speaker A: Q and A on the Blitz over at nine, eight, seven with Lopez and Randy.
Speaker B: And as an extension of that, I.
Speaker A: Thought I would create a Q and.
Speaker B: A right here at Lawyer Talk podcast. And doing it separately like this gives.
Speaker A: You a break from the longer form.
Speaker B: Discussions we have over at the Round.
Speaker A: Table and lets me answer your questions in bite sized chunks.
Speaker B: That way you uh don't have to.
Speaker A: Sift through a bunch of uh information.
Speaker B: That you don't need just to get your questions answered.
Speaker A: So without further Ado, we're going to answer Greg's question. I love this question. It's about my uh profession and a.
Speaker B: Little bit about my career and lets.
Speaker A: Me sort of take off on some.
Speaker B: Topics that I like to discuss. And Greg is asking. Uh.
Speaker A: Greg is asking.
Speaker B: I uh would like to get your.
Speaker A: Thoughts related to different practice areas within the law. I have a nephew considering law school and wondering what you think in terms of compensation versus quality of life, pursuing.
Speaker B: A partner track in a larger firm.
Speaker A: Versus going on your own. Also interested to know if you would still go into criminal defense if you had to do it all over again. I've interfaced with many types of attorneys and some of them seem to have very repetitive routine workloads.
Speaker B: Attorneys doing real estate settlements come to.
Speaker A: Mind, but I'm sure there are many others that contrasted against doing trial work, which I'm sure is extremely stressful each time.
Speaker B: Lastly, what are your thoughts on going.
Speaker A: Into a completely different practice area of work, like financial management with a law degree? Thanks so much for the podcast. He loves it.
Speaker B: Awesome. I'm glad you like it. Greg. I'm going to do my best to.
Speaker A: Answer this um and there's a lot to break down, so to speak.
Speaker B: Uh first of all, different practice areas of law, going to law school does.
Speaker A: Uh not necessarily prepare you for a practice area. I hear people say all the time.
Speaker B: I'm going to law school and I'm.
Speaker A: Going to be a corporate lawyer.
Speaker B: Well, the problem with that is uh.
Speaker A: There'S no like corporate uh lawyer major within law school. Basically, law schools teach to the bar.
Speaker B: Exam, meaning they want to get all.
Speaker A: Their students passed the bar exam, which tests the basic topics contracts, torts, property.
Speaker B: Constitutional law, criminal law. Maybe uh uh some other areas I'm.
Speaker A: Missing, but generally speaking, they teach to the bar exam. Now there are some elective courses so you could take a corporate law class.
Speaker B: Some of them even have like media law classes or some of the more uh specific stuff.
Speaker A: As you get into your third year but generally speaking, you're not going to get a primer necessarily to go to a specific area of the law. Now, how then do you end up.
Speaker B: In a specific area of law? Well, it's simple. Your first job takes you there, um.
Speaker A: So you might have some choice when you're interviewing for jobs.
Speaker B: And it used to be that everybody thought, I'd go to law school, I'm going to make a million dollars, I'm.
Speaker A: Going to be rich, I'm going to have a great career, and life is going to be awesome. It's not always the case.
Speaker B: There are probably too many I don't.
Speaker A: Even say probably there are too many lawyers out there.
Speaker B: And as my dad used to say.
Speaker A: He was an attorney. He is an attorney.
Speaker B: There uh are too many lawyers out.
Speaker A: There, but not enough good ones.
Speaker B: He would quickly add, now um I.
Speaker A: Think there's a lot of good lawyers and um maybe not enough good jobs, I might say. So the big firms like the multinational.
Speaker B: Or international or multi state law firms.
Speaker A: Are going to be looking for top.
Speaker B: Of the top uh law schools, the Ivy League or the top ten law.
Speaker A: Schools, and then maybe even the top in the class of those top ten.
Speaker B: There are lots of books and other articles and Google. I'm sure it can give you lots of insight into this.
Speaker A: But unless uh you're going to a top tier Ivy League school, you're not.
Speaker B: Going to get a job at a.
Speaker A: Top, super uh high paying law firm. And that's okay.
Speaker B: It's probably better, actually. You probably don't want that job.
Speaker A: They will eat you up. The amount of work and the uh time you put in, particularly uh as a young associate at those things or at those firms, I understand, is just almost uh unbearable. So there are people, of course, who have the personality traits who can just go crank it out. They love it. They can dive into the work and they can go and go and go and go. But you better plan on a high stress, high pressure, high um workload type.
Speaker B: Job if you want to go to.
Speaker A: One of the top tier big law firms. Now, there are all sorts of middle tier law firms as well. I don't even know what makes it top or middle.
Speaker B: I'm just sort of making this up, I guess, but maybe uh a little bit smaller. And um then a lot of the.
Speaker A: Firms have offices in lots of cities all over the United States. So you don't necessarily have to be in the top firm in New York City.
Speaker B: Uh they'll have an office maybe in Columbus, Ohio, or uh maybe Washington, DC, or maybe Georgia uh or Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker A: Or some other city where you live. And um then most cities have sort.
Speaker B: Of a very uh high a reputable law firm, bigger firm right there in the city.
Speaker A: It may not be multi state, but.
Speaker B: Maybe one or two States or maybe.
Speaker A: Just within the state, but they're hiring associates also. And that's where you might say if.
Speaker B: You went to Ohio State University, you might get a job here in Columbus.
Speaker A: At one of the bigger law firms. And again, you sort of have to question whether you want that job.
Speaker B: And again, back to the first part.
Speaker A: Of this question about areas uh of law. Usually that's where you're going to learn your specialty area, if that's the right word. You're um going to get hired by a law firm.
Speaker B: They're going to say, guess what? We need help in uh the real.
Speaker A: Estate section of our law firm, and that's the job we're going to give you.
Speaker B: And don't um think you're going to get cheesy. You'll be happy just to get a.
Speaker A: Job, and they might even pay very well. And you're going to become a real estate lawyer.
Speaker B: You might uh get grabbed over to.
Speaker A: A different section in the law firm.
Speaker B: You might say, I'm going to go do health care law or they're going to stick you somewhere else.
Speaker A: But that's generally where you find your area. Very um few of these bigger law firm type jobs will end up with you in a courtroom, at least right away. The quote, trial lawyers in those law.
Speaker B: Firms are sort of the self proclaimed prestigious ones, and they're going to uh.
Speaker A: End up having all the litigation. You might end up with litigation support or answering interrogatories or discovery.
Speaker B: You might at some point even get.
Speaker A: To conduct your own your very own deposition, where you go to somebody's conference room and ask a witness questions.
Speaker B: But generally that's going to be reserved for the lawyers with uh more experience. And then a lot of those lawyers.
Speaker A: They talk about partnership track or a lot of law firms, they talk about partnership track.
Speaker B: The quickest way to partnership track is.
Speaker A: Be able to generate income. So if you have a big client that you can bring to the firm, and this may be after five or six years, you're looking laterally and you can bring a big client with you that's going to build a lot.
Speaker B: Your chances uh of making partner are going to be better. Uh so it's like, what areas would I pick?
Speaker A: I don't know, because I didn't have to do that.
Speaker B: Now let me give you a couple.
Speaker A: Uh of thoughts about my career path and how I ended up what I'm doing. I had a couple of options, believe.
Speaker B: It or not, I had an offer.
Speaker A: To be a federal or uh a.
Speaker B: Clerk for a federal judge, at least.
Speaker A: Sort of an informal offer.
Speaker B: And I was probably too stupid and young and ignorant and naive to even.
Speaker A: Know what that meant.
Speaker B: But it was a big uh deal, and I didn't do it or I didn't pursue it. I didn't try to land the clerkship.
Speaker A: And had I done so, you write your ticket in the law firms. If you become a federal judge's clerk.
Speaker B: It'S a big uh deal. And if you're good at uh it.
Speaker A: You get a good recommendation. Those are the people who end up.
Speaker B: Going into the bigger law firms and um having the traditional, successful legal careers, maybe even get a judgeship uh yourself one day.
Speaker A: But that's a ladder uh climbing endeavor. Uh i also had an offer at one of the bigger law firms here in Columbus.
Speaker B: And again, uh that would have been.
Speaker A: In the, quote, civil litigation or doing whatever, who knows what I'd been doing? Probably writing briefs and researching and sitting in an office for 50, 60 hours a week. I didn't do that either. Why?
Speaker B: Because I decided I was going to.
Speaker A: Be the guy who hung my own shingle and became a criminal defense attorney. Why on Earth would I do that?
Speaker B: Because I was young and I was dumb and uh who knows why?
Speaker A: I'm not going to self criticize too much.
Speaker B: But when I do it again, I probably would do it again. And I think I would do it again because I'm not really cut out.
Speaker A: To do the traditional areas of law. And here we're going to get to.
Speaker B: Sort of the heart of the question or maybe the advice I would give people, unless you want to be the.
Speaker A: Lawyer who spends five, six years just working your tail off in a law.
Speaker B: Firm, doing the bidding uh of partners and others at the law firm, if you don't like that kind of high.
Speaker A: Pressure, high stress, lots of hours work.
Speaker B: Um there are not many options other.
Speaker A: Than maybe going to the government or doing what I did, just starting your own practice.
Speaker B: Now, it wasn't easy doing what I did. I would say that I was too.
Speaker A: Stupid uh to realize I had any other options.
Speaker B: I didn't know um what I was getting into. So day one, when I hung out.
Speaker A: My shingle and I said, Steve Palmer, attorney at law.
Speaker B: I waited for the phone to ring and I rented some furniture and stuck it in an office here at 511 uh South High.
Speaker A: And the phone didn't ring. And the second day it didn't ring.
Speaker B: And then maybe I got a call.
Speaker A: It was like a speeding case or.
Speaker B: Something that one of my buddies sent me.
Speaker A: And it slowly worked. But the first 23456 weeks, you don't get paid very much money and you.
Speaker B: Start to think, what the heck am I doing? And then you get the big hit.
Speaker A: I made like $5,000 on something and.
Speaker B: Felt like I was in the money and off to the races, I went.
Speaker A: It'S a different personality to do those things. Nowadays um it's a little bit different.
Speaker B: I think, because you have marketing opportunities.
Speaker A: Uh that I didn't have. I was word of mouth back in those days.
Speaker B: Now they have Internet websites and these guys who are um great with uh.
Speaker A: That kind of stuff tend to get business.
Speaker B: Now, that doesn't make them good lawyers.
Speaker A: But they can make themselves look like good lawyers. And that's one of the problems our profession is facing.
Speaker B: So when I go into criminal defense again, yeah, I would because um it uh gives me the opportunity to it fits my personality, maybe, is what I'm saying. I tend to be a little bit ADHD.
Speaker A: I'm scattered. I'm creative in my thinking.
Speaker B: I have a little bit of artist in me, and it lets me craft.
Speaker A: My trade here, my way within the bounds, obviously, of the rules of the profession and the law.
Speaker B: But it lets me sort of do.
Speaker A: My thing, uh maybe. Since College, uh I haven't worked for.
Speaker B: Anybody else where I truly uh had a boss, I guess I was a law clerk in law school, but they sort of set me off and let me do what I did. And I delivered a product form, but I've always been one that uh has.
Speaker A: To make my own hours, do my own work. And I can't imagine being beholden uh to a partner and having to build 60 hours a week or whatever it would be.
Speaker B: So I uh would go into criminal defense again, because I don't think I'm.
Speaker A: Cut out to do any other area of the law.
Speaker B: At least at that point, I wouldn't have been like I can. Uh now.
Speaker A: This gentleman, Greg, is interfaced with lots of other types of attorneys, and some of them seem to have very repetitive, routine workloads. That's another reason why I went into criminal defense. Not that in some sense, all jobs are going to be repetitive and routine.
Speaker B: If you're building houses, there might be a little variance in each house you build. And if you do it custom, you can maybe get some creativity out of uh it.
Speaker A: But at the end of the day.
Speaker B: You'Re doing the same thing you did last time, maybe just a little bit differently.
Speaker A: And the law is no different. Every DUI case I have or every.
Speaker B: Murder case I have, there's uh a certain process I go through, and eventually.
Speaker A: It all becomes repetitive and routine. I think, though, my area of law is a little less repetitive and a little less routine.
Speaker B: I'm not just reading real estate, uh.
Speaker A: To use your example.
Speaker B: Real estate contracts all day long, looking.
Speaker A: At the same language every single time.
Speaker B: Uh i guess whatever area it would.
Speaker A: Be, whether it's compliance work or corporate work or whatever, I'm not doing necessarily the same thing as much as maybe I think other areas might do.
Speaker B: I get to talk to a lot.
Speaker A: Of different kinds of people. I meet all sorts of interesting folks. I love meeting people.
Speaker B: I hate to say uh that I love meeting people because they're in trouble.
Speaker A: When they come see me, but I really do like to get to know people.
Speaker B: I like to learn what they do for a living.
Speaker A: I've had people that are concrete guys.
Speaker B: And it's fascinating to me. I've had people who run. I had one guy who ran uh.
Speaker A: A business, and his business was to.
Speaker B: Take clothing that had been sort of.
Speaker A: He uh inspected boxes of clothing shipped.
Speaker B: Over, and if he found so many.
Speaker A: Pieces uh or articles in the box, that were blemished.
Speaker B: Then uh the whole box got shipped aside.
Speaker A: He sifted through it, resold it.
Speaker B: So just interesting stuff I've learned over the years, talking to people. And uh I don't know if everybody.
Speaker A: In my profession or my area of.
Speaker B: Practice does it the way I do. But I uh look at this as.
Speaker A: An opportunity just to learn interesting stuff all the time. And then I get to get creative, too, about how I defend people.
Speaker B: I don't do it just like everybody else does it.
Speaker A: I've never been confined to that rigid.
Speaker B: Of a standard, mostly because, like I.
Speaker A: Said, I'm a little bit ADHD.
Speaker B: It's not that I reject it outright.
Speaker A: I just can't do it like everybody else. I've never been able to.
Speaker B: So I would say that I don't have as much repetitive, mundane tasks as.
Speaker A: Others, but eventually it's all repetitive.
Speaker B: Now, trial work um um.
Speaker A: Um Representing people in a courtroom is a stressful endeavor.
Speaker B: Representing people accused of crimes in a courtroom is immensely. Uh there's a lot of pressure there.
Speaker A: Uh so if you have somebody who is accused of a crime and if you lose the case, they go to prison for the rest of their lives, that's a lot to carry around.
Speaker B: And then you have the added stress.
Speaker A: Um of just having to perform with others, judging um you.
Speaker B: There are people who are better at that psychologically than others.
Speaker A: I tend to get very self critical.
Speaker B: And have some self um doubt at times, and you really want to be able to perform.
Speaker A: Now, that said, once you get to a certain level, it becomes, I don't want to say second nature, but you drop the facade. You become yourself in a courtroom, and you don't have to worry about all the stuff. When I talk to young lawyers or um trial advocacy students in law school, I tell them, look, there's what you.
Speaker B: Say and how you say it, and.
Speaker A: Everybody gets caught up on how you say it. They want it to sound profound or important or significant or smart or um whatever impressive.
Speaker B: But what you say is uh far.
Speaker A: More important or far more significant and far more profound.
Speaker B: I like to keep things simple. As I often say around here, I've.
Speaker A: Made a career out of listening to what others tell me and then simplifying.
Speaker B: It and spitting it back out in.
Speaker A: Like half the time or a third of the time or even less.
Speaker B: So I'll talk to an expert in.
Speaker A: Some scientific area, and then I'll regurgitate it back to the expert in normal talk.
Speaker B: So I like to say I speak.
Speaker A: Lawyer, but I also speak normal.
Speaker B: I can speak normal talk, and that.
Speaker A: Has enabled me uh to do what I do.
Speaker B: And once I get to that uh.
Speaker A: Point, now I'm just speaking normal, talking to courtroom back to the point.
Speaker B: And I don't have to stress about.
Speaker A: The performance side of it as much anymore.
Speaker B: But as far as um the outcome side, when people are counting on you.
Speaker A: To do your job. It does get a little stressful.
Speaker B: Everybody deals with that a little bit differently.
Speaker A: I worry about the case.
Speaker B: Or you can say you worry about.
Speaker A: The evidence in the case, not the individual, but that's hard to do. It's almost stupid to say it.
Speaker B: I always worry about the individual. There are lawyers who don't, and uh maybe they can do um it longer.
Speaker A: Without having the mental breakdown.
Speaker B: But on the other hand, maybe they're.
Speaker A: Not as effective either. So, yeah, it's very stressful each time I go into a courtroom, but maybe not for all the reasons that people might think. And then lastly, um the question is.
Speaker B: What are my thoughts on going into.
Speaker A: Completely other areas of work life, even with a law degree?
Speaker B: I uh think a law degree is.
Speaker A: A phenomenal education, or at least it used to be. I don't know what's going on with it now in law school, but the traditional law degree or law school experience is one where you are taught a methodology to think. You unlock parts of your brain, not memorizing um stuff, but how to think and how to analyze and assess problems. Some of it is basic logic.
Speaker B: Um some of it is um maybe uh logic plus. So uh I can tackle almost any.
Speaker A: Problem in any area.
Speaker B: Now I'll say this, and I'm not.
Speaker A: Saying this to Brag. I say just because there are mechanically.
Speaker B: Inclined people out there and those who.
Speaker A: Are just naturally good at solving problems.
Speaker B: And I was uh that I could always look at problems and dissect them um and try to troubleshoot them even as a young kid. And I always joke is my ADHD.
Speaker A: Made me great at solving problems because I created so many problems for myself.
Speaker B: So I had to learn how to deal with it when I forgot my homework. I had to learn how to deal with it when I forgot my lunch. I'd learn how to deal with it.
Speaker A: When I forgot whatever, insert whatever.
Speaker B: So I was used to creating workarounds.
Speaker A: And different creative solutions. Law school teaches you a methodology to do that.
Speaker B: And uh I would never say I.
Speaker A: Uh can answer every legal question. And those who listen to me think, well, man, how do you know all this?
Speaker B: Well, because I can listen to a problem and then put a series of.
Speaker A: Logical considerations um in place and come up with a solution.
Speaker B: And if you listen carefully to what.
Speaker A: I say, it often I don't provide an answer, but I provide how to get the answer, and I provide the issue.
Speaker B: So a lot of what we do.
Speaker A: As lawyers is we identify the problem.
Speaker B: Even if we can't identify the solution.
Speaker A: But you're never uh going to find the solution until you've actually framed the problem in a way that tees it.
Speaker B: Up to solve it. And I don't want to get too deep into um that.
Speaker A: But that's uh the methodology. Now what do you do with that in other areas?
Speaker B: Well, I don't know for sure. I think lawyers suffer from a thought that I'm a good lawyer so I.
Speaker A: Could be a good something else. And that's not always the case. I even have suffered from that.
Speaker B: I have now had to come to.
Speaker A: Grips with I probably couldn't be a.
Speaker B: CEO of a huge company and work twenty four seven and be emailing overseas at two in the morning. I'm not that person, but I could.
Speaker A: Probably uh advise that person on a.
Speaker B: Personal, individual, professional, even legal level. Uh so I could go in and.
Speaker A: Into a company now and help them troubleshoot all their problems and be really good at that.
Speaker B: Now I've also to shift gears a little bit, but staying on the same.
Speaker A: Topic, um I have talked to people.
Speaker B: In human resources and going back 1015.
Speaker A: Years anyway, or ten years. And a close friend of mine used.
Speaker B: To say that it's a little bit.
Speaker A: Weird when he got resumes with people with law degrees and they didn't want a legal job.
Speaker B: And I think to some extent people.
Speaker A: Are looking at a law degree now, like, why aren't you a lawyer?
Speaker B: If you got a law degree, why.
Speaker A: Aren'T you a lawyer? What's wrong with you? I don't think that's a fair assessment at um all.
Speaker B: I think lots of people go to law school and it makes you capable.
Speaker A: Of all sorts of other things, but.
Speaker B: It'S something to watch out for. And then finally a judge here, a local judge. We uh used to bring people that were shadowing um us over to talk.
Speaker A: To him, and he always said this, and I think it was pretty insightful. He said, look, unless you want um to be a lawyer, don't go to law school.
Speaker B: And that might be a little bit contrary to what I just said about.
Speaker A: It being a great education, et cetera, et cetera. But in this day and age, you.
Speaker B: Have to understand it's really expensive to.
Speaker A: Go to law school. And it's a time commitment, three um years, at least four. I did it uh essentially at night, but I crammed it into three years.
Speaker B: So I was able to work full.
Speaker A: Time, but it's a substantial undertaking. And why pay all that money and go through all that process if you're not going to be a lawyer? Now, Norm here at the Round table at Lawyer Talk, he's a lawyer. He's been to law school and decided long ago not for him he wasn't going to do it. Fair enough, but uh he's going back 30 um years or maybe more.
Speaker B: And life was different back then.
Speaker A: My dad um always used to say get a law degree. It's a great degree, but it didn't cost 100 grand back in those days or whatever the equivalent uh financially of that would be.
Speaker B: So it may not be worth going to law school if you're planning on.
Speaker A: Not being a lawyer, because things have become a little bit more specified and.
Speaker B: College and education and higher education has.
Speaker A: Changed and you can go get a.
Speaker B: Degree in hotel management, if that's what you want to do.
Speaker A: You can get a degree in business or you can get a degree in whatever.
Speaker B: And it might be uh a little.
Speaker A: Bit more specific on what you want to do.
Speaker B: And maybe the best way to assess this would be, should I go get.
Speaker A: An MBA, um a business degree or a law degree?
Speaker B: What's better? I don't have an MBA.
Speaker A: I have some friends who do. And it may be a better fit, sort of generically. If you're going out just to figure it out.
Speaker B: An MBA might be a little bit more.
Speaker A: Versatile from a marketing standpoint than a law degree. Now that said, um going back to my father's advice was always as a lawyer, he would say, I can do what you can do. Maybe not as well, but based on the educational experience I have on learning how to learn, learning how to solve problems and learning how to do and get things done, I can do what you can do because I have this.
Speaker B: System in place where I can digest.
Speaker A: Massive amounts um of information and simplify it and learn it. But the inverse is not true. Um others can't do what lawyers can do. If nothing else, it takes a law degree and a license to practice law.
Speaker B: So just on that logic, you end up a leg up with a law.
Speaker A: Degree because it gives you at least one more option. Weigh that against the time. Weigh that against the stigma of trying to enter the workforce uh with a law degree but not practicing law. And the cost. Uh so what's the answer? I don't know. Um think carefully before you go. Spend 100 grand on a law degree. If you're not sure you want to be a lawyer, follow people around um shadow people, call me. I'll walk around with your nephew, show.
Speaker B: Them all what I do, the good, the bad and the ugly, and understand.
Speaker A: I am a working stiff. Um i go to work every day. I work my tail off every day. It is not the um golden parachute type um of job.
Speaker B: I often say I got buddies who.
Speaker A: Went into sales and they're doing great and they're retiring. I'm still going strong now.
Speaker B: Could I have been smarter saving money?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean, I've done okay. But as a solo practitioner, it's um.
Speaker A: Like you eat what you kill and.
Speaker B: You always got to find the new game. It's a tough existence.
Speaker A: It's high stress. Uh but as entrepreneurs, which is sort of what I am, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Speaker B: As my accountant obviously says, look, you.
Speaker A: Entrepreneurs, we're this type.
Speaker B: We don't have a choice.
Speaker A: So it's not a choice to go be an entrepreneur. We just do it because that's all we are capable of doing. And those who are in a nine.
Speaker B: To five government job, who want to jump out and become entrepreneurs rarely succeed because uh they wouldn't have taken that.
Speaker A: Job if they weren't. How am I trying to say they would have been an entrepreneur anyway already because I couldn't have taken the job they're doing. I couldn't function in that world. It doesn't say I'm better, it means I'm worse.
Speaker B: It means that I don't have the.
Speaker A: Capacity of that kind of structured organizational career.
Speaker B: So a lot of this might be a personality type and getting a life.
Speaker A: Coach to help assess that would be a real good means to troubleshoot that.
Speaker B: Problem, uh but well, look, I hope I've answered your question. Uh i think I've rambled on long enough. A heck almost 25 minutes. So forgive me for that. But if you want more, feel free to reach out again on the Lawyer Talk podcast website if you want anyone else wants their question answered, well, now you know what to do. You got a lawyer talk podcast and.
Speaker A: Submit the question I'll answer.
Speaker B: We're covering all sorts of topics, all.
Speaker A: Sorts of issues, and then over at the round table we're taking on the big weighty, important stuff. So stay tuned. Lots more of that to come.
Speaker B: Until next time, this is lawyer uh.
Speaker A: Talk off the record on the air at least until now.