Welcome to another episode of Turning the Table, . From time

to time there are some glitches that occur especially with scheduling.

We had planned to have Jennifer Kern.

Host of Restaurants Reiimvented to talk about heart led leader.ship.

Unfortunately she couldn't make it.

So Jim and I are actually gonna shift and start talking about some other things.

This is episode 130 and I'm Adam Lamb of Chef Life Coaching with my

co-host Jim Taylor, Benchmark Sixxty, and we're dedicated to bringing

you solutions to the hospitality industry's most persistent challenges.

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It really does help other people find the show.

And I just wanted to say, How are you?

I'm great, Adam.

How are you?

I know we're gonna go into the specifics of Howard, but I'm, good.

, Adam Lamb: right?

How are you Really, , how are you?

You know what, I'm I had an awesome day yesterday with

the family, with Steve for the day.

Took the day to detach a bit and yeah, so I'm, rare.

I'm, there's lots of good stuff going on

fantastic.

I am gonna say I'm probably between medium and medium.

I've had few challenges with some physicality in my back and my

legs and stuff, but today I feel great getting a lot of stuff done.

And we want to thank our friends at Chowco.org for providing

this temperature gauge.

We really encourage anybody who's interested in using a device like

this in order to get a better idea of where the emotional temperature

is in your, of your team.

This is a really great way of doing it and there are others but DM us and

let us know and we'd be really happy to to forward that information to you.

Jim, you were talking before we got on the show about something crazy.

One of the great things about Pandemic and the great reset is that everybody's

getting really, creative about not only staff retention and, protecting staff

workload, but also trying all kinds of different things in order to drive sales.

And so why don't you tell our listeners what you came across?

I actually had a, you're right.

I There's so much going on in, in terms of the people side of the industry right now.

There's all this, discussion and innovation happening in terms of what's

going on in terms of the business side of the, industry, which I think you and

I talk about people a lot and we talk about caring for people and protecting

people, and employee experience and retention, all that stuff, which that

obviously is never gonna go away, but I think some of the innovation

that's happening in our industry is going to be really, cool long term.

And not necessarily talking about robots, anyway, I have a couple people

actually send me stuff yesterday about some of this subscription service

stuff that's starting to come up in, in restaurants, mostly in the QSR space,

but in other full service restaurants.

True too, right?

I taco Bell and Parent Bread and, some of these other companies that are

doing things where I think that what I, and I hope, I don't mess this up,

but I think what I saw was Taco Bell is has a $10 a month subscription.

You get a taco a day for free for the first month, right?

And then you get discounts and stuff like that.

Some of the other companies that were, doing things like a hundred dollars

a month and you get a date night once a month and you get a free app every

time you go and these kinds of things.

And it's, interesting to see that companies are starting to

think about how to create more.

Almost guaranteed revenue, right?

Where as people are starting to change their spending

habits and maybe go out less.

So it's, cool to, to see that the industry's thinking

about things different.

And some of the stats that were attached to some of the stuff that I found

really interesting were in pre pandemic.

The average person in, North America had, I think it said was four subscription.

Maybe it's Netflix.

But they have four.

Sure.

Now it's almost seven.

So just across the board that's starting to be something that people are

trending to more than they were before.

And it's, I think it's of cool that the industry, the restaurant

industry is starting to pick up on it.

You know what it reminds me of, Jim, it reminds me of

when gift cards first came out.

And I think the stats, and don't quote me on this.

But I think the statistics are, is that people, like the redemption

rates on most gift cards is like somewhere what, 30, 40% maybe?

Yeah.

Only I think it's under 50 for sure.

So it's free money.

, they end up in the junk drawer.

But I'm saying from the operator, whether they're booking that as

revenue or or in some other line item.

And I've seen some different companies moving that stuff around.

Whichever makes best for tax purposes, but it strikes me as that just like a

gym membership man, or a subscription, again, you have the best intentions

when you sign up for it and then six months later you're wondering what

this $10 debit is on your credit card.

And you're like, oh, yeah.

Which your minds me.

I haven't had a taco for three months.

. Yeah,

It's, but it's, a, I think a really interesting.

approach for the industry and if they can market right and, get in front of people,

I think there's really good opportunity.

So I guess I would challenge any restaurant operator that's maybe listening

to us or seeing that stuff in the news.

Think about conceptually how to make that work in your restaurant, because

it's, if companies like Taco Bell and Panera are doing that kind of thing

it's it's gonna, it's gonna stick.

Yeah.

And the other thing that jumps right out at me is it's a great

way to build loyalty, right?

Okay.

So if it's not a crude as expense or as income until the card is actually

used then the secondary benefit of that is to jumpstart a loyalty

club where folks are consistently showing up on a regular basis.

And I'm also thinking of the model that's used in.

Country clubs, right?

Yeah.

You get X amount of dollars to use in the restaurant, whether you use it or not.

And some have points and stuff, so it should be really interesting to see

how the different companies use that.

because I'm sure there's gonna be some mistakes

. Jim Taylor: Sure.

It's for sure.

And, I think you hit the nail on the head with the loyalty side of it because let's

say a, restaurant maybe not the size of Taco Bell or something like that, right?

But let's say it's just like a normal, a lo more localized restaurant

company, let's say they get, I don't know, 500 people to subscribe to

something that is a small monthly.

right now.

If that, if each of those 500 people maybe went to a different restaurant

a couple times a month and now because they have a subscription, they're

gonna be more loyal and go to that restaurant one more time every month.

That adds up, right?

Yeah.

There's a huge opportunity there.

So you're right, some of it's about revenue, but a lot of it's about loyalty.

Yeah.

And I imagine that it's also a great way to boost forecasts.

, so I wonder what that calculation is on a forecasting model and how that relates to

schedules and making sure that everybody's staffed appropriately and, not getting

slammed and one of, one of our favorite topics protecting workload for employees.

Yeah, for sure.

But if it's a loyalty program, maybe that's a, interesting way of

smoothing it out over the course of a.

, right?

As opposed to those high traffic days of Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

Maybe now Tuesday and Wednesdays there's a little bit more lift.

, and it'd be really curious to see how that affects customer behavior too.

Right?

if they're getting if, they're getting a taco, are they actually getting

anything else on on the side of that.

Absolutely.

And I think as people's behave, like you said, customer behavior

changes especially heading into what some people are worried about being

a recession or that kind of thing.

There's an interesting, probably a really cool and fun exercise to go through,

but working on the positioning of what.

Promotion actually looks like, or what the subscription gets you.

Because if, you're a family of four and you know you've got two little

kids and you're worried about what's happening recession wise, right?

So every time you go out, maybe now that you're not, because many prices

are higher and cost of living is more expensive maybe you're not gonna

order the dessert for the family.

Right?

But if your loyalty subscription gets you free dessert every time you go.

You're gonna go there.

Yeah.

Sure.

So there's, definite connection and opportunity from a business model

and positioning perspective of subscription to, to really lean into

what's going on in the world right now.

And so what are a couple other topics, Jim, that seem to be coming at

you over the last week and a half or so?

The, whole wage model thing is starting to come up a lot more,

I think, as there's more discussion about increased minimum wage, excuse

me, there's more discussion about.

the industry is starting to hire more people, right?

There's more applicants starting to come back.

But restaurants have to pay them more.

And I had a discussion with a CFO the other day where he was talking about that

the restaurants in, the group that he was overseeing, they were paying too much.

Their payroll number was too high.

, right?

He just, the way that he was looking at this information was they're spending

too much on payroll and we ended up in a dis an interesting discussion

about that because they weren't, depending how he looked at it, they

weren't actually spending too much on payroll from a workforce perspective.

They were spending the right amount to take care of the customer.

The reason it looked like they were spending too much was because

the customer has been spending less than they were before.

That was inflating the labor cost percentage.

Which kind of proves out the point of how Benchmark 60 approaches

these, particular conundrums, because it might not necessarily seem at first

blush that this is an accurate this is an accurate labor cost percentage.

And I know that we've spoken to lots of companies and some managers are not

even quite clear from an informational standpoint what that number should.

. And then how, if you don't know what the number is, then how can you accurately

adjust that in a way that's not okay, I'm cutting four servers and then

getting slammed at nine, nine o'clock.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, for sure.

The other just cuz because you asked the question, the other thing that's been,

I've had a lot of discussion coming at us a lot recently is, And we've talked about

it a little bit, but this development gap that was caused by the pandemic.

Yes.

Yeah This I was a, fairly new level manager.

When the pandemic hit, I was on a development plan.

I was learning, my goal was to be a gm and when I say my, I don't mean

me, people who are in the industry.

Sure.

And then for two and a half years, they were focused on packing, takeout,

and re hopefully retaining a few people and taking wearing multiple

hats and all these different.

And a lot of companies, not to their own fault, but they weren't

worried about sales because they were getting subsidy and they weren't

worried about labor because they were getting subsidy and they weren't.

It was just find a way to stay afloat and shift the model.

And now those people who, sure, they have three or four

years of management experience.

but it's not the way that the industry is typically used to.

And they're in a position where the gm, they're the GM of the restaurant.

They're facing decisions they've never learned, had to deal with before.

And it's the conversation I was having with with someone about this the other day

was the industry used to be able to rely on strong GM and chef level management

to make decisions and drive results.

Mm.

But it's shifting and this isn't taking anything away from

the people in those positions.

Now it's more about high level strategy, understanding information,

what's the data telling us and how to drive the organization that way.

I dunno, I'm ranting here, but you're, what's

on that?

Yeah.

So it seems to me is like there's two different subjects and I just wanted to

shout out to to one of our good friends, Michelle Moreno, because she did a post

today on LinkedIn where she's finishing conducting her 20th leadership workshop

with this one particular restaurant group.

With one restaurant group, yeah.

And that is . She's doing not only front of the house, but back of the

house and she's doing good, quote unquote whole house training . But

the fact that this company understood what that development gap was and was

open to listening to Michelle pitch.

On on back into the title of the show, the ROI of, really addressing

that gap in development so that everybody's ready to jam on that.

I, think there's so many great.

trainers, mentors, coaches out there that are just chomping at the bit

to be able to assist operators.

And yet if they think that some operators, I think you're still stuck in that.

It's, still the old way.

We can still do it the old way because we haven't necessarily been forced to.

Although with the fluctuation in the labor market and such a slow unemploy

such a low unemployment number, if they're still not getting people in the.

Then I think it's a great opportunity to start looking at everything . Yeah.

About how they're showing up to their showing up to their staff.

And this kind of piggybacks back on our first topic about not the

subscriptions, but the loyalties.

if, and I just I, just did a podcast about this.

It'll be out tomorrow morning, but about communication and relationship

oh, business is all business.

It's just business, man.

Take it easy but, really all business is relationship and most.

most successful operators understand that and put a premium on giving their staff an

opportunity to create those relationships.

Not rushing 'em off the tables not, double triple seating them but understanding

that hospitality comes before eating.

And I know that there's some, a lot of operators that are jumping on that, but

still to your point about the wages, I keep a close eye on, the developments and

there's still a lot of back of the house positions, even in senior management.

Where I look at the operation.

I go 35, 45, 55, 60 5,000.

Are you kidding me?

And the place is doing five, anywhere between five and $11 million.

That's just, that ad will sit there forever.

And this morning I was driving and listening to the New York Times and

the Daily Podcast, and they're running the series of Humana advertisements

on it where Humana's saying basically pre pandemic, nobody really cared

about dental insurance or vision insurance and things like that.

But in a, tight labor market, adding those to the benefit

package can be a game changer.

And you and I are fans of some of those kind of out of the box thinking benefits.

But again, if the operator's still approaching it from this is what

we've always done, we can't really see any reason why we should change it.

Yeah.

I, just, I, how bad does it have to get before someone goes, Hey,

maybe we can try something else.

Yeah,

and I, think back to when I was a me, a floor manager

or a general manager, or even a regional level district manager.

and it was very much about words like grind and drive and Yep.

Things like figure it out.

We talked about that stuff.

It was like it was a GM's job to drive profit and it was a chef's job.

Job to drive fee

cost to, yeah.

To slash and cut.

To trim.

Yeah.

Whether that means trim or work harder or grind,

or whatever it might be.

And you know what?

There's nothing wrong.

Working really hard to get a result, but the industry is at a point right now where

I, firmly believe this and for anyone who I've interacted with regularly they,

probably heard me rant about this, that it's more complex than that now, and that

approach won't get anyone anywhere, right?

Wages are different.

Pricing is different.

Cost of goods is different.

Labor market is d.

rent is different cost of you name it, it's changed.

And unless you understand the information that goes into what making

decisions is all about in today's industry, it's just so difficult.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

And there's, no real simple solution, , it's remember doing an inventory and.

I'm a couple points off my cost.

It's never just one case of shrimp, right?

It's all the little things that kind of make that whole thing up.

And to your point about the grind, the push, the tr the, trim, the

slash you know, it puts managers who mean in really in, in positions

where they might sacrifice a little bit of their integrity because

they're gonna do everything they can.

To make that number, even if it's fudging numbers and Sure.

Based on my own personal experience it started with a five pound

box of shrimp and one inventory and two inventories later.

I, it was a case of shrimp because it just kept ballooning and

there was no way to trim it back.

I, recognize that type of pressure is really, difficult to handle.

And there's again, no real simple solution except to consider what

your core values are and decide whether or not this employer really

mirrors those core values or not.

Because I know for a lot of us, for a long time we got the job because

that was the job that was to be had.

And there was a lot of other people competing for that position.

So you were lucky to get a job that you could sufficient.

Pay bills and stuff like that.

So there wasn't a whole lot of choice about where you're, where you were headed.

Yep.

And yet, I know in this time there's a lot of choice.

So if there's anybody out there that's really frustrated with management there's

only so much managing up that you can do.

But this is a great opportunity to again, take a step back, reconsider

what your values are how does that, balance between your personal

life and your professional life?

And if it need, look for another employer because there's so

many the chef ads are crazy.

There's so many of 'em out there.

I think what the US is at 3% unemployment right now.

Something like that.

Yeah.

So that means that everybody who wants a job is basically working

that the o that 3% actually measures unemployable, either unemployable

or people who've stopped looking.

And to me, I think that's just fascinating.

Some, ads are great.

I'm seeing some really fantastic just ad placement above the fold

of like a company's position.

What they're what they really stand for, their core values, their vision,

mission before it's like requirements.

Like they're trying to match, they're trying to get out in front

of it and really be where most of these perspective staff members are.

Emotion.

And I think that's a really great thing.

And if you

look at some of the companies in the US or Canada in mean

pick market, that are fully staffed I would be I would be very confident

in saying that there's something very different that they're doing.

I was talking with Anthony Valletta from our taco the other day, or Zach

Feinstein from Feinstein Group in Florida.

Their labor models and the way that they take care of their people are

like completely different than.

, everybody else in the industry.

Bar Taco is growing like crazy and Anthony is a great guy.

He's gonna be a, an a guest with us on the show here soon to talk with us.

They're, every single person who works in one of their restaurants

makes the same amount of money.

So Explain, tell me more.

They

pool all their tips.

They don't have server.

I'll, I don't want to spill the, tea too much here cause that's gonna us

through this, but you don't have surfers.

They rely on technology like QR code and whatnot.

They have people to make sure that the customer's having a great experience,

but then they take the gratuity and they pull it across everybody.

So whether I'm working on my first day as a dishwasher, or I'm the most senior

line cook, or I'm working in the front of house, making sure the customer's having a

killer experience, they all make the same

amount of money.

There's, a place here in there's a place here in Asheville, the golden

pineapple that does the same thing, which means that dishwashers are

making $25 an hour, maybe more.

And it's crazy because people, there are still a lot of people in our

industry that say, oh that's That's.

nuts.

That won't work.

It's interesting cuz those places are the ones that have no labor shortage.

. Adam Lamb: So I think Monty Silva's

that too when he shows up because I know from following his content that in

Tampa Bradenton, that area of the west coast of Florida, places are jamming

and they are satisfactorily staffed.

Nobody's rushing.

Nobody's he's seeing high levels of hospitality in these in these restaurants

where typically a seafood restaurant on the Intercoastal is slamming, jamming

there's no foreplay with tourists.

You get one chance, you go for it.

And yet he's like looking around, going, I don't know what everybody's talking about.

So it'll be really great to have him on so that he can reflect

back to us what he's seeing there.

That works because I know that Florida's such a tough market.

For seasonal labor up, down, constantly fighting, being overstaffed for

most of the, for most of the year.

And then all of a sudden the bottom drops out and.

understaffed because everybody got let go and yeah.

It so it's I think he's probably gonna have some great intelligence for us

when he comes up in a couple weeks.

Yeah.

Looking

forward to that for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's just the message here is whether it's a subscription service

or a different way to look at a labor model or there's all these

different ideas floating around.

But I think the, message is, for one it's, about we gotta make sure

that our people are well taken care.

That there's good loyalty with customers and just think

differently.

Yeah I, couldn't agree more.

And I just want to put a pin in it and say, the other thing that's really,

critically important right now is to own the narrative and to really

be crowing about those really weird things that, that you're promoting.

Because if you don't own the narrative, somebody will.

Yeah.

And we lost the upper hand.

We didn't lose the upper hand, but during.

all that was coming out was just how shitty it is to work

in, the hospitality industry.

And to a certain extent, they were absolutely right on the

money, a hundred percent.

But yet it gave us an opportunity as operators and and people who just love the

industry to take a fresh look at it and go, man, this is a great opportunity, man.

If we can, if we, not if, but working towards these different types of things.

And the thing that I think probably can't be stressed enough about that

subscription service is just having a stable environment within the restaurant

of knowing what your what those cover counts are gonna be from day to day.

Because I, it'd be interesting to see, okay, so I get a free taco.

Does that mean I'm in there every day, every other day?

And how, much, how many tacos can you have from Taco Bell in the middle of the day?

I'm not talking about at two o'clock in evening.

When you're trying , I'm not talking about late

night when you need a

Right?

But the, really interesting thing.

I, don't think there's some operators that are not scared at

all about trying stuff like this.

They're gonna keep, they're gonna keep bringing things out until

they really hit their drive.

And yet they don't consider any of the, if it doesn't naturally

work out the way that they want.

But they're not looking at that as a failure.

They're looking at us.

Okay now we're able to drill down even further.

Now we're, gonna get really, good.

looks like for our particular clientele, our tribe.

Yeah.

Because those are the people that we most want to serve.

Yeah.

Which to me also, Has some legs around kneeing, down in menus and,

becoming really, good at maybe one or two things that you become instantly

known for, and that's perfect opportunity for a subscription model.

You know what a really interesting part of the discussion

around the Taco Bell thing?

The free taco a day for a month when you subscribe.

So it's 10 bucks a month.

It's very, cheap, right?

Yeah.

And so you get a free taco every day.

So thinking about some of the psychology around this.

So what do they say?

It takes 28 days to create a habit.

Yep.

So having gone through this type of analytic type stuff with lots

of restaurant companies around customer spend and behavior

and all these different things.

So here's what I predict would happen in a lot of cases in terms of this Taco Bell.

, someone who likes Taco Bell, they may not Uhhuh be like going to Taco Bell

every day, but they like Taco Bell.

Sure.

They subscribe to this $10 be because they're drawn in by the fact that I

get a free taco every day for a month.

Sure.

Okay.

They now go and get a free taco every day for a month, but maybe

not every day, but quite a few days.

They probably order something else.

Yep.

So the big picture of Taco Bell's model might change a little bit because.

people are gonna maybe go and buy something from Taco Bell a little

bit less, so their average customer spend might come down slightly, but

their traffic is gonna increase.

So all in all their, businesses, it's generating more.

So that's good.

The psychological byproduct of it though, is that as the consumer,

I've now gone and had a Taco Bell taco every day for a month, and

next month it's not free anymore.

So I'll probably still go more often than I.

It's like just, it's the pusher on the street corner, man.

First one's free baby, then you gotta pay . Yeah.

But that there's a, you know that, again, when I said

this earlier, that companies like Taco Bell, you gotta know that

they've done their homework on this.

If you've seen anything about the new drive-throughs, so come on.

But so here we go.

There's some psychological hook the customer on this.

And it it's, smart if you ask me.

. Adam Lamb: Yeah, I think so too.

I think so too.

I think it's a little bit more difficult for say a restaurant

that has that kind of Americana.

Trying to please everyone model cuz then what do you like, what would

be the value add on that menu?

I think it would be a little bit hard to say just because you're trying to

be everything to everybody, right?

Yeah.

And, maybe it's a a free appetizer every time you come in.

Or a free drink every time you come in for the period of time.

Yep.

And then like you said with the gift card example, after that

there's this big percentage of people that aren't gonna use it.

And their prob, their margins probably increase even if they give away something

for free every time those people come

in.

And by the time you actually catch it like that third or fourth month

and you cancel it, what's the percentage of people who are not gonna

even pay attention to that month?

To month To month?

Yeah.

Like you said, I don't think Taco Bell would've done that if they

didn't do some really great ground.

Probably in a particular market somewhere where it was a test and

and they tried to drill that data down, but I'd be something I think

I'm gonna be watching very closely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was thinking as we were coming on onto the show today,

I knew we were gonna talk a little bit about some of this kind of stuff.

I was actually thinking that for, the bonus content that we're gonna do today,

it'd be good to leave people with three creative new ideas that they could

implement in the business like tomorrow.

I love the idea.

Right on.

Right on.

And if you stayed with us this long that's correct.

We always do a little, we shut down the studio and we move to the back

dock and and sit down on some milk crates and record another 10 or 15

minutes of exclusive bonus content, which will be the link for that will

be available tomorrow when we do the.

And because this show is scheduled for another guest, I'll have to

actually bring it down and then repost it again with the correct heading.

So there'll, be a little bit of work for me to do, but it, we will be

able to clean it up and I'm really looking forward to bringing Jennifer

on because her show is great.

She always has some great topics and guests, so I think it'll be a

real value add for our listeners to be able to find out what she's.

. Jim Taylor: Completely agree.

Yeah, too.

Bet you couldn't join us today, but definitely looking forward to that

conversation.

You bet.

And just wanna say thanks to everybody for following following the show.

We continue to add more and more people.

Yes.

Last week I think we added another 51 followers here on LinkedIn.

So it's, the lift is incredible and I think currently, The show sits at

number 70 in podcasts Canada Business.

So we're really grateful for that, for everybody's enthusiasm and participation.

We love the, questions and, the chat.

And I want to end the show by saying, DM us, sent us an email.

, what kind of content are you looking for?

What's your most vexing problem right now that we can go out and

search for solutions and bring it back and serve 'em to you?

Because that's what we're here for.

And Jim and I, think the conversation today was fantastic.

Touched on a lot of different things, but I really wanna make sure that our

listeners are served in a way that.

On other shows to be frank.

Yeah, agreed.

All right everybody, thank you very much.

This has been turning the tables with Jim Taylor, benchmark 60 and

me, Adam Lamb of Chef Life Coaching.