Foreign and welcome to the PAT Accounting Podcast with me, your host, Vicky Clark.

I'm going to help you get to grips with your finances, save you lots of money and take the stress out of doing your tax return.

So let's get going.

Welcome everyone.

Happy new year.

Happy 2025.

I was going to say like New Year, new me, but for us, really, although personally it's a new year, professionally, our year doesn't end until the 31st of January.

So for us, our year ends then.

So we're not quite at Happy New Year yet because as you all well know, the self assessment deadline is 31-1-2324 tax year.

Therefore, if you started your business after April 2020, for a banner, you've got a banner.

If you started your business after April 2024, then you do not have to submit a tax return by the end of this month.

It will be after April.

So don't get confused because sometimes we put all this stuff on about the tax return deadline and everyone gets confused.

So if it was after April 2024, you are still in your tax year, so you do not need to panic.

But if you do have a 2324 tax return, then it needs to be done by the 31st and paid by the 31st of January.

So don't even know.

I went straight in with that just kind of happened.

We are back.

We haven't been here for a few weeks probably, actually maybe a couple of months have been that bad.

And so if you.

Sorry, Lee just sent the message and it distracted me.

If you are new to the group and you're wondering who the hell we are and what is this live.

My name is Vicky and my handsome business partner here, Lee, run the Pet Accountant, which if you didn't know, is an accountancy firm that helps pet businesses all across the uk.

So that's who we are.

We run this group that you're currently watching it in or the page and we also have a podcast called the Petty Podcast if you want to listen to any prior episodes.

I would say if you're going to start from the very, very beginning.

What's that noise?

Is it the dog drinking water?

That's the dog having a drink.

And there was me worried about the team teamsing each other in the background.

But it's the dogs having a drink noise.

You can hear that odd slapping noise.

It's the dog drinking water.

If you do start from the podcast from the beginning, they do start off a bit dull, but we do get funnier and better as the Episodes go on and they're sort of less accountancy, more just mainly taking the piss out of each other.

So if you are grooming or walking and you do listen apart, especially when.

You get to our clairvoyancey one and the Ouija board that we're doing it off, that one did.

Yeah, it was fun.

So that's who we are.

We will try and do these every week.

It's our New Year's resolution to be a bit more organized and get these done because the topics that you do discuss are quite important and it's stuff that you need to know.

So today, all to say hello, we're back.

Hope you guys had a good Christmas and a good break.

We are going to discuss some things that have popped up in the group over the last couple of weeks and some controversial, some that we always get arguments on and people hate us because we think we're just like making this up and being horrible because every other accountant does it and people's husbands that are accountants do it and all that sort of jazz.

But we are going to give you.

The fifth, my friend down the pub.

Oh, that's another kitty one, Dave down the pub.

But we are going to give you the official guidance on some of these things.

We know it's a bit shit and it doesn't make sense and it should, it should be allowed, but sometimes it just isn't.

We could do about it until it.

I think that's the important bit is that it's not our personal opinions or it's not our personal feelings or whether or not we wish they were or.

Or wish they weren't.

When we answer the comments in the groups on the posts, as the pet accountant, we're giving you the official answer from HMRC's guidance.

So it doesn't really matter whether or not you do it and you think it's okay because you're only doing it until you get caught because you haven't been following the guidance.

So.

So our responses is based on current HMRC rules and regulations, which can change from year to year.

So it's really important that you know if you are commenting on these things and you know, and I love a good debate, but it can be a little bit grinding at times when you're answering the same thing over and over on the same thread because people are saying, well, I do it, so, you know, it must be allowed.

You know, it makes sense for it to be allowed.

That doesn't change the rules.

We always.

If someone says it's allowed when someone's Sin isn't ask the person.

That sin is for an audience or somewhere where it says somewhere that it is allowed, like official, like the government website, HMRC's website.

Because then we will get back in our boxes and we will be quiet.

But until someone does provide the evidence, we will tell you whether it's allowed or not.

And you know, sometimes, you know, either clients panic because people have said in groups, oh no, this is loud.

And that's allowed because my husband's an accountant and he does it, or my accountant does it or I put it in and you know, like Lee says, we don't necessarily agree with hmrc, but you know, if it's a black and white, yes or no, then we have to follow it.

If sometimes this is a bit of a gray area, you might be able to like do a bit of jiggery pokery.

But the clothing, you know, the chiropractors, the glasses, you know, the gym memberships unfortunately are a category.

No, there is no area.

So that we had this a couple of times group of the last couple of weeks with regards to clothing.

And this is really quite apt at the moment because we've got the self assessment at the end of the month, so.

So individuals are going to be doing their own tax returns.

And the guidance on clothing is that if it is everyday clothing that you wear for your business.

Yeah, last year, so on.

At the moment it's everyday clothing, but everyday clothing that you wear in your business, it's not an allowable expense.

And the reason is, is because you have the ability, whether or not you choose to or not, you can use it outside of work and it doesn't identify you as a profession or as what it is that your business does.

So the way to get around that rule is you need to brand with a conspicuous logo.

So what I mean by conspicuous is it must be seen and it must be able to identify your business.

So, you know, we had a post in the group this week where the person said, you know, I'm a dog walker, I don't necessarily want people to know that I'm going in and out of people's houses.

So I don't wear branded uniform, I just wear like a rain jacket or normal everyday clothes.

Why can't I claim for these?

I don't want to brand them.

And what's the way around it?

And the way around it is to brand them, unfortunately.

Because that's HMRC specifically saying on their website when it comes to everyday clothes that you, you wear, they're not an allowable Business expense.

But if you and them, yeah, if you brand them, then you can claim them as uniform, in which case they're fully allowable and tax deductible expenses for your business, lowering your tax at the end of the year.

So it works twofold.

It's not just about allowing the clothes, it's about building a brand identity as well and shouting about this business that you're building, which, you know, it's, it's about that inadvertent advertising.

Somebody might see you out walking the dog, they go, you know, I'm going to give them a call.

So you should have your contact details on there, you know, maybe on the back of the jacket, your logo on the front lapels.

And it is a way of growing your business.

Naturally.

It's not just about the allowable expense of the clothes, but where we fall down is we talk about groomers an awful lot.

Um, and it's dog walkers that are really suffering with this clothing rule like.

Grooming clothing, shiny necks and the legs.

Anti hair leggings and things.

Yeah.

So, so with the walker side of things now, you know, we say, well, I need a warm pair of trousers and I need a, a winter booth jacket, I need Gore Tex boots.

You know, these are all things that I need for my business.

Now unfortunately, HMRC doesn't see it that way.

And the reason being is this because the clothes that you're buying is for you personally, not for you to deliver your service or to deliver your, your, you know, your dog walks where you might be going up mountains and Highlands and all the other bits and pieces where you are exposed to bad weather, bad temperatures.

So it's really difficult for us to say to dog walkers, unfortunately you can't have that rab jacket that you're just going to put through that you've spent 450 quid on, whilst it is going to keep you dry and it is going to keep you warm and it is all purpose, all weather and all singing, all dancing.

Unfortunately, as a business expense, it's an everyday item of clothing that you can wear outside side of taking those dogs for a walk.

And that goes the same for the walking boots as well.

Now shoes generally are a non allowable expense no matter what business you're in, unless they can fall under ppe.

So personal protective equipment.

And what I mean by that is like steel toe capped boots that you would generally find on a construction site.

Another reason that they would be allowable is because they perform a function within the boot that themselves that if a steel beam or something heavy was to fall on the wearer's feet, they stop them from being crushed.

Those type of PPE are usually reduced VATs or at 5% VAT.

So you can generally see at the till on the, the price tag itself that they are a reduced rate of VAT which is normally 20% for, for non PPE items or 5% that the government has approved that it's a PPE item.

So even when you buy boots in that perspective they would be classed as PPE rather than uniform.

But general shoes from day to day, whether or not you're grooming.

Because I see lots of groomers buying Crocs, you know, an easy slip on, slip off shoes.

We see dog walkers buying wellies like say Gore Tex boots, you name it.

We've maybe, maybe people should start a petition to HMRC to make these things allowable and say well actually as dog walkers, dog trainers, dog groomers, we need this sort of stuff in order to do our jobs.

Maybe try that.

The level, the problem that you.

The one argument that HMRC comes back with is the holy and exclusivity part of whether or not the it is wholly for business.

Now if we look at dog walkers for argument's sake, dog walkers, nine times out of 10 and I know I'm blanketing a lot of them here, have their own animals, their own dogs.

So when you walk your own dog as a dog walker, do you put those same pair of boots on to walk the dog to have the same protections that you'd have walking your own dog that you would when you're walking your clients dogs?

And that's where the duality of use will come into play.

Well you could argue I bought two pairs of boots, I've got one that I use for walking in my one that I, you know, wear for work.

But why would you do that?

Because that doesn't really make that much sense.

Because if you've got to buy yourself that pair of boots to start with anyway, why would you go and re spend the same amount of money on another pair of allows My but you've all that that tax doesn't offset does the tax offsets 20% of the.

No.

Maybe open a dog walking shoe shop.

But you've got to think.

So we, we talk about the gray areas when it comes to HMRC and we have had this before where what happens if you put your branding onto the boots?

Do they then become allowable as uniform?

And there's no case law that I'm familiar with where that has been tried And HMSC has successfully argued that either way.

So there is the potential that you could potentially brand them.

But remember, it has to be conspicuous.

Yours has to be the biggest logo on them and it has to be seen.

So you couldn't put it on the inside of the tongue for argument's sake.

No, it has to be a permanent fixture.

So it has to be physically attached, constantly attached, all time.

But then my, my question to you was if it's Velcro, why would you want it to be Velcro?

Because if you're taking the Velcro offs, you can use them outside of work.

We come back.

Well, no, I was thinking of ease of adding a logo to a shoe.

It would be easier to welcome rather than trying unless CAD light for us because our, our colors are orange.

It could have like an orange boot with.

I mean, how are you going to get the PET account stitched along the V?

Well, this is where the downfall comes in.

Because as soon as you start stitching the shoes, you ruin the water.

The water protection that they is so ishly.

It's.

Yeah, it absolutely is.

And you have to weigh that up whether or not the price of the boots that you want is worth paying for for the protections that they give you personally.

And this, and this is the thing, the walking boots provide ankle support and good foot support for the wearers themselves.

Now that's to stop a personal injury to yourself.

And that's where the business and personal aspect comes into play here.

So it's all about the personal protections to you.

Now I know we argued that with the steel toe cap boots, but there's a specific function in those and they're there for a reason.

Because you're working in a dangerous environment that, where things can fall onto the not in case.

Not in case the same Bernard accidentally steps on the tool.

Well, yeah, this is it.

This is it.

So it's really difficult when it comes to footwear and there is only a very select few professions where footwear is allowed as a business expense.

And that's generally where you're working around bodily fluids.

So the likes of nurses can and has an allowance that they can spend to replace their shoes, but they have to be of a certain type because there is that risk of contamination from the job that they do.

Which brings us into ppe, which was one of the arguments in the group this week of why we can't class or what is PPE and why aren't shoes classes ppe?

So PPE is personal protective equipment.

It is equipment designed to protect the wearer from chemicals and spills and injury and harm.

So shoes don't fulfill that, that kind of, you know, scenario.

Your, your everyday clothes is something that you wear day in, day out.

That's what you need to do.

A pair of gloves that keep you warm is not ppe, because HMRC doesn't recognize warmth as a business necessity, it's a personal necessity.

So in terms of ppe, if you're a footballer, for argument's sake, the gloves that the goalkeeper wears one to keep them warm and whilst they do provide another function that they're a little bit sticky so they help catch the ball, they're not allowed the shin pads that the footballers have on because there is a regulatory statement that says they must wear shin pads.

The shin pads provide protection to the shins because of the tackles and the contact with the other players.

The shin pads are an allowable expense as ppe.

So it's, it's very, very odd and, you know, it's, it's difficult when you get into these things.

So if we talk about the industry that we are in, you know, what sort of things that we can have for PPE, for groomers, for walkers.

So if we think we've got face shields for when you're bathing a dog, you can stop the dog from turning around and biting at your face with one of the face shields.

You have tunics that you know.

And again, for a dog walker, I personally would allow waterproof overall or over clothes that are in separate parts, the bottoms and the tops, to protect you from wind and rain, and that protects the clothes that you have on underneath.

So we would allow those.

Not a waterproof coat.

You talk about, like a thin waterproof layer that could, like, if I was going out on this, you'd put a thin, like waterproof over the top.

Yes, like, like a poncho type scenario, but again, same as the bottom trousers.

And the reason for that is because we can argue that that is ppe, because that is protecting you and the clothes underneath from any.

You know, some dogs, when they go to the toilets, they like to kick their back legs.

They're going to be running through mud, they're in fields, you know, so it's giving you some protection from that side of things.

If we think about what else have we got?

I'm just trying to think of the type of PPE that we would usually put through.

Can you think of anything off the top of your head for, like, groomers.

To be honest, groomers, you know, you could get like.

I don't know if you said it because I was reading these messages that are plastic glasses and stuff.

Yes, I know some groomers use ours.

Okay.

Some groomers use mozzie nets.

Yep.

To stop hair when they're like when they're doing a husky or whatever and the hair flies everywhere.

So you could class a mozzie net but to be honest, most of them really going to wear it and they're not going to go full on face shields.

It's not enough.

My is you, you may need to buy that so that you have it there.

And certainly if you have members of staff, you have to provide them minimum level of PPE that does protect them and that might be a case of that.

Whilst you don't enforce it, you should.

But whilst you don't enforce it, it must be there for them to wear should they need it.

Now the, the, the plastic glasses brings us on to another.

Hang on.

Just before you go on to that.

Okay.

I know Natalia's made a couple of comments about the walking boots.

We know it's unfair and I, and you know, and we wholeheartedly agree that we should be putting boots through and wellies and things like that.

And it's not that we disagree with you, we do agree.

But it's just the rules and unfortunately there will be and I've seen in all of the, especially the job walking groups where people, if someone's mentioned it and there'll be about 50 comments on there, people go, no, I put it through and I put it through.

My accountant puts it through.

They may well do but then they take the risk if HMRC look into it and then you screed because then they'll look at all of them and they'll go through everything with the I come and for us it's just not worth it.

There's no point us putting it through and going, oh well, fingers crossed you don't get caught out because at the.

End of the day that's what it is.

It's all about risk.

It's, it's new as the client because you signed off.

So yeah, there's a load of expenses that we could say, right, let's pretend you've spent some money on this, let's pretend you've spent some money on that.

Let's get that tax bill down.

But if you didn't incur those expenses and we're fraudulently putting in things that brings the tax bill down.

You're committing tax evasion, we're enabling it, but you're committing tax evasion and you're signing those accounts off and you're signing those tax returns off to say the information that's in there is true, and, and it's an accurate reflection of your current tax affairs.

And if HMRC starts a small inquiry, they call it a little inquiry to start with.

They come along, they, you know, they ask, refuse its pieces, and that inquiry then turns into an investigation when they start finding things and they go, right, show me the receipt for this thing that you've put through.

And then you go, well, I didn't, I didn't buy that.

My accountant just put that through.

But you've signed to say that it's in there.

And then they're going to go, right, now we've had a little look at this year, I want the records for the last six years to see what else we can find that's gone through that you didn't actually spend any money on.

Once they find things in those six years, they're then going to say to you, thanks very much.

Now, I want the records for the last 20 years.

HMRC, when they have reasonable grounds to suspect that you have committed a degree of evasion or fraud or theft, can ask for records as far back as 20 years, when you only have a statutory requirement to keep your records for around seven.

So you're now in an investigation where HMRC are demanding records for you to prove your expenses for records that you don't even need to keep anymore.

And your uncle Mandy on How to Be a Good Dark Walker Hayes Group, said that you can't live with jackets.

Because they'll just be like, yeah, that doesn't work.

So whenever we take something on board, and if there's a personal element to it and a business element, because the idea behind a business expense is it should be wholly and exclusively for business purposes, sometimes there is a personal element of use within the asset.

If we look at a car for argument's sake, so it's your car, you use it partly for work, partly for personal commuting and other bits and pieces.

If there's a metric that we can reliably measure the difference between the personal element and the business element, then we can apportion it and claim some business usage of the asset.

In this instance, a car can be done on mileage, so we know how many business miles you've done, we know how many personal miles you've done, and we can claim either 45 pence a mile or we can claim actual expenses, but we look at all of the running costs of the car and we apportion it by the business mileage percentage split that you've done and we claim that we document it so that if HMRC comes knocking and they say, well, how did you get to that figure?

We can say, well, we've taken the odometer meter reading, this is at the start of the year, this is at the end of the year, and here's the mileage log that says, these are all my business miles.

We can prove it.

When it comes to, like some boots, for argument's sake, what metric you use to measure the hours or the, the miles or the steps that you took, that was business and which was personal.

And that's where there's no metric that you can accurately use to say how much of that item was business or personal use.

And HMRC's rule is if you can't distinguish and accurately measure the business and the personal use, the entire asset or the entire expense is disallowed for tax purposes, which is where the boots become disallowed.

It's quite a good explanation because it allows people to understand why we're saying that it can't be allowable or why something can be allowable.

So if we have a little look at my next favourite that.

Now I got this unlated for in one of the groups, which was glasses.

This is, this is Lee's rant podcast of everything it's annoyed him in the last two weeks.

Yeah, right, Glasses.

So if we look at a jeweler, okay, a jeweler makes jewelry, part of their work involves them looking at fine gemstones and having to set these fine gemstones into mounts in rings.

That is really finickity.

You know, it's, it's small work that you need to have really good eyesight.

I love you.

So if that jeweler doesn't wear glasses, or even if they do wear glasses, they will need an additional set of magnify specific magnifying glasses that they can put on that allows them to see these items close up so that they can do the detailed work.

And the reason I say that is because a couple of the dog groomers have said that they need glasses for fine nailing with the dogs.

Now, the magnification glasses are a specific item that is required in order for the jeweler to carry out the fine detailed work.

Without the magnifying glasses, they would not be able to see as close to the jewelry as necessary to be able to conduct the welding and the engraving and the gem setting of the jewellery.

Therefore, the glasses, the magnifying glasses would be an allowable expense.

If that jeweler required normal glasses every day to be able to see, whether that be from short distance or long distance, his or her personal glasses is not an allowable business expense because they are for them personally.

Even if those glasses provide a degree of magnification that they allow, allowing them to see something close up.

And the reason being is, is because these, these varifocals or the short distance or long distance are correcting that person's eyesight.

They're not providing a zoom in function that the magnifying glasses are doing.

So the magnifying glass alter the magnification on them so that you can focus closer and further distances so you can see something.

Now, if you require glasses, that is a personal medical condition, not something that your business is there to buy for you.

Now the argument that we're going to have is, well, without my glasses I can't see the dogs.

Well, unfortunately that doesn't change your business.

That means that you need glasses in order to perform your job.

So you need it to perform your job.

Your business doesn't need it to perform the duties that it does.

And the other way that you can look at that is if you've got a member of staff, does the member staff come in and ask to borrow your glasses when they go and file some dog's nails?

Because that's what the glasses are used for.

Whereas in the jeweler scenario, the member of staff will use the same pair of magnifying glasses to conduct the same work.

And then my question to people would be, well, if you're paying, if the business is paying for your glasses, should you not then be paying for all your members of staff pairs of glasses because they need it for the same purposes?

Now, there is a slight caveat with this and it's whether or not the business uses computers and whether or not the computer use has, and whether or not you have been told by your optician that you specifically require a pair of glasses in order to use a computer screen.

And that's very, very key.

If that's the case, then there are scenarios where the glasses and potentially the test, the eyesight tests can be allowable, but it is only where display screen equipment is involved.

And you have a specific note from the optician that says the glasses are required for the screen use.

Otherwise glasses is a personal medical thing that is required personally and nothing to do with the business.

And therefore glasses are not an allowable expense.

All the bad things, it's a negative podcast today, people's of what you cannot.

Claim so Question two is chiropractor.

Oh, God.

Well, that gets in my tits as well, the chiropractor one.

And you know, it doesn't get on our tits that people ask the question.

It gets on my tits when people go, oh, well, yeah, but I just put it through and then it ruins it for everyone else because then everyone else thinks, oh, well, she's putting it through or he's putting it through, then I'll put it through.

Even though there's a professional on there saying this is not allowed and people ignore you and put it in anyway.

That's what boils me.

But hey, ho, why is it not?

Why, why can't I.

But I need it to, to groom the dogs because without it I can't pick them up.

Why can't I put it through as a business expense?

Well, because it's the same as the glasses.

It's a personal.

It's personal to you, isn't it?

Unless you are injured by a dog in the salon.

Let's just say a big St.

Bernard jumps out the bath and you fall and twist your back and you need to go and see a physio, then that would be allowed, I would assume.

Yes, because that's an injury caused at work that's caused you to tweak it back.

So this is, this is the gray area with the HMRC is dodgy, grand.

The scenario that we had was that if, if a dog bites you, for argument's sake, and you're at work, you get bitten by a dog, that injury has caused you to stop work.

Now you can have the, you can wait on the NHS waiting list who will provide you with the surgery for free, or you can pay to go privately to be able to go back to work and conduct your work.

But the, the cost of the, the, the private in treatment in that case would be an allowable business expense because you could demonstrate without the surgery, you were unable to work.

In terms, if you then had to have additional physio afterwards or follow up, that too would also be allowable because the initial operation that allowed you to get back into work was allowable.

Now, if that dog bit you on the face and tipped the tooth or cut your face and you got some scar and you, and you needed plastic surgery or dental work, that type of expense is not allowable.

And the reason being is, is that it doesn't stop you from performing your duties and your job.

And I get it, it happened at work and, you know, you might look disfigured like the Elephant man and you Know your teeth all over the place.

But unfortunately from the HMRC side of point of view, they're looking at whether or not it is a business expense in terms of you can still perform your duties, you can still perform the business, can still run, it can still service the customers, the injury is now to yourself and therefore the expense of correcting it.

And the plastic surgery is just not an allowable business.

Exponentially.

If, if you had an accident at work where a dog jumped on you, tweaked your back and you couldn't work as long or as many days, surely then the physio to so would be.

We, we now come back into the what metric do we use to measure of that physio of what is how many hours was how much pain relief are you receiving at home?

Because again it's your back.

So if you can't accurately measure how much is in work and how many, it's entirely disallowed.

Yes, well, I used to work five days a week, but since the accident I can only work three.

But I woke up and you only work three because the back hits.

Because I've.

Okay, as the business owner, what would you do to change that?

And you'd bring somebody in, you know, you'd look at ways of, of again.

Which is what we're doing is, is the devil's advocate side from HMRC and we're playing now we're separating the business from you within your business.

And whilst we do a lot of work with sole traders that doesn't have that support, they don't the subcontractor as the employee, go find a job.

Wait a minute, it's not as easy.

No, you're absolutely right, it's not as easy.

But from the HMRC's perspective, it's easy for them to turn around and say, well if you can't work, you get a subcontractor in to pick up those hours and you change the model of your business to allow you some time off to recover and recuperate, you know, and what they would then argue is that the COVID that you're bringing in is the allowable business expense.

That's just ridiculous though.

Yeah.

So you saying then if someone got injured at work and it hurt and hurt themselves, you wouldn't allow the treatment to make them better?

No, because you, you'd have to prove that that accident happened at work and the injury from it was from that specific instance.

What about CCTV in the salon?

But it'd prove if you get jumped up by a dog, you could Prove.

That you got bit, because that.

That would physically be on that cctv.

But the CCTV is not going to pick up you putting your back out.

It might show you twinging and grabbing your back, it might show you falling, but it's not going to be able to give you the damage that's been done with the doctors.

And they say, yes, that's.

But you're talking.

The doctors can't even tell you that it's from that one specific instance or that one.

That one thing that you did.

Bear in mind, back problems develop over a course of time and they are, you know, they get progressively worse, they jump on you.

It depends.

So if they break the arm, that again, comes into whether or not you can physically work or you can't physically work and whether or not you can have surgery for that broken arm.

Remember, it's about getting you back to work.

And if you physically can't work, that's a bit.

It comes back to, I hear we.

Need to do some sort of petition or to get HMRC to look at its ridiculous rules, because it is dapped.

They can't say on one hand, as a sole trader, you and the business are the same entity, but when you're coming to claim for expenses, you're not.

Yeah, but it's.

It's difficult, isn't it, because you, you've got to separate what's you personally and what is you, the business.

And it's.

It's that thing of that.

That's like then saying, well, if that's the case, as a sole trader in a business, I should be able to put all my food through because if I don't eat, I can't work.

But yet we know that you can't put everyday food through.

But the argument is the same with the expenses, is that if I don't have it, I can't work and therefore I don't have a business.

If I don't eat, I can't work.

And that's where all these gray areas come from.

And there is challenges.

So HMRC set rules and then they go, you know, people break them and then they challenge them in court and then they go to what's called case law.

And the one case law, when it comes to the medical side of things, was to do with a stunt driver on a bike that had an accident and they won their case law.

And which is why the operation was allowable business expense, because they physically couldn't go back to work following that one accident that they had when they were performing their duties.

But could they not just got someone else in to do his job?

Could he not have hired someone else to go and do his job?

He couldn't physically do it.

So if he wanted to work and go back to it and do that job, he couldn't do it.

So it's breaks their arm, his agreement.

Couldn'T go back to work.

But what you're trying to claim for, if they break an arm, they've broken an arm, there's no surgery, is there?

You can again you go down the private route or the other NHS route.

It's free on the NHS if you're waiting for surgery.

But in order for you to get back to work quicker and you can prove that that broken arm was a result of an accident at work from one of the dogs, then, then that follows that case law that HMLC lost.

Basically no.

If we just go clothing, chiropractors, glasses.

Gyms, physios, massages, any massages are a big no, no, but relax, basically all.

Of the above is a big fat no.

If you have an employee and the employee injures themselves at work, then you actually have a duty of care to that employee.

And if they need medical costs then you can re.

Then you can pay for those medical costs as a, as an expense.

So, and this is why we have these debates and we try and look at both sides and you know, I'll always, I will always be on the side of the client, but wide.

Well, it just doesn't make sense.

So I do share your frustration with some of it is just stupid.

I do.

Some of HMC's rules are outdated and they need like a revamp of like maybe actually now get something.

Maybe we can change X, Y and Z to make it a bit more up to date.

Because I do think some of them are a bit archaic.

But there we go.

Maybe we could do a petition.

Let's start a petition to get it.

100,000 signatures.

We get it in.

HMRC needs a revamp.

I can't imagine how long that would take or how much that would cost.

They can't even answer the phones at the moment.

Navarro, the Bells three dates can't answer the phone.

So the likelihood of them doing updating their laws is probably a bit slim.

And if not about 2050.

We have spoke about non allowable stuff.

Now let's speak about the stuff that we can put through, you know, that is allowable, that you should be looking at doing.

So ellipse, we've got a really, really weird one to do.

But from doing someone's self assessment.

The other day I rang me up and I was like, bicycle mileage was like what?

And it turns out if you use your bicycle rather than a car, you can claim 20p per mile.

But then how do you.

That doesn't.

Am I like you?

You got to measure those miles.

I was going to say you got to have something to measure it.

You can't have 20p a mile if you are using your bicycle.

So there we go, top tip.

Everyone's gonna be like, right in the summer, you know, instead of walking everywhere.

All they have to do is strap the dogs to the bike like a sled.

Sled like huskies.

And the dogs can pull the bike around for miles and they'll be earning 20 pence extra a mile for using their bike while walking.

On the days in the summer we went at your bike house and they owe 20pmile.

So you learn something new every day.

That's our tip of the week.

Use your bicycle and claim 20pmile.

So get you healthy and claim.

And claim tax relief.

Exactly.

Get paid for it.

Not a lot, mind.

We'd probably take 10 mil so you can buy Fredo.

So, you know, maybe not.

But there you go.

Is our top tip of the day.

We weren't really going to do a factory type podcast today.

It was more longer.

Hey, we're back.

Yeah, I think what's important we haven't touched on is you.

The deadline for filing your self assessment is at the end of this month.

It's midnight on the 31st of January and yes, you've got to pay, you've got to file and pay any tax that you owe by the 31st of January.

Now if you're late with the filing, it's an automatic 100 pound penalty.

If you're late with the payment, they apply interest onto the money that should have been paid.

So initially, depending on how much tax you owe, of course the late filing penalty is more of a disadvantage in terms of a physical penalty for payment over not paying a tax bill on time.

Now if you have and you are struggling with your tax returns, we do still have some availability.

It is really, really limited and the closer we get to the end of this month, the busier we are going to be.

So if you are on the fence, if you are struggling with some bits and pieces, pick up the phone.

Tegan is doing sales calls at the moment or basically taking the inquiries in from, from, from clients for us.

She's giving them, you know, prices, talking to them about the businesses and what we can offer if that's then something that you want to go ahead with.

We are expediating the onboarding process just because of how.

How close to the deadline that we are.

There has been a couple of instances this week where Tegan's had some calls booked in and people haven't answered them.

So those have meant that Tegan has turned customers away because she is that busy in terms of the calls.

So please don't book.

If you're going to book an appointment, please stick to it.

Yeah, because we can't rearrange that call this side of January because we got.

Two appointments and Tegan and has to give it to them, like two weeks down the line.

And then someone said they could have had that appointment.

So, yeah, these people don't want to have to start charging people for the inquiry calls because we don't want to do that.

But at the same time, it's just hindering.

Everyone else wants to have a chat with Tiga.

They can't.

I think normally wouldn't be so much of an issue, but just because there's so many people that want help at the moment, when we're having to say, I'm really sorry that we don't have the availability for that phone call, the initial phone call, you know, when somebody needs help, that's the last thing that they want to be hearing.

So it's not for us in terms of, you know, the more clients that we get, more money we make.

It's not about that at the moment.

This is very, very much about helping those clients, helping those people that want help with their tax returns and getting it done before the 31st of January deadline.

Now, we've got some clients out there at the moment that still haven't sent the records in and some of them believe it's because they've got till the end of the month to get it into us.

But we are human and we need time to go through the records and it's not an instant thing.

You don't just give us the records and we file it with HMRC attached.

Does take longer than telling time.

Yeah.

And I know again, there'll be people out there, oh, I did my attached in 10 minutes.

Don't leave an accountant.

You know, it takes us hours in some cases to.

To get it done because of the amount of work and I've been working.

On ones for days, going backwards and forwards with the client because we need bits and pieces.

And, you know, what started out as a straightforward, you know, relatively straightforward sole trader business, then kind of escalates when they go, well, I, you know, I did a little bit of crypto trading.

I sold, I sold some of my crypto.

I've got, let's see, your savings.

Yeah, I can't remember how much savings.

Oh, I had a job, but I haven't got my P45.

Those things delay the ability for us to submit a self assessment.

So when we do your self assessment, it's not just about your, your sole trade business, this is about your worldwide tax affairs.

And, you know, most people come to us and go, well, I've only got income in the UK and that's fine, but there will be other people out there that didn't realize that even though they've been paying tax in America because they're now a UK citizen and resident for tax purposes in the uk, we've got to take that into account as well.

So, you know, a lot of people are getting caught out when they say, well, I've had a couple of jobs and I left on bad terms or I'm not speaking to them anymore and I haven't got my P45, I haven't got my P60, what do I need to do?

And the answer is, you go ring HMRC to try and get the information from hmrc.

That is not a quick call.

You know, HMRC phone calls are taking hours at the moment, so depending on when you have to make that call could dictate how many hours of the day that you've got to put to one side and then you've got to weigh up.

Well, if I'm on the phone to hmrc, how do I run my business?

How do I walk the dogs, how do I groom the dogs, how do I, you know, I got training sessions booked in.

When am I going to find that time to ring hmrc?

Because they're closed in the evenings and I'm in manic during the day with my, my own work.

But if we don't get that information, we can't file a self assessment knowing that it's missing tax information.

Because if we don't put that income on there, the tax that we calculate is wrong anyway.

And then what happens is, is that if we miss things off the tax return, it flags at HMRC side that the tax return hasn't been entirely honest.

And that's one of their little red flags that goes, hang on a second, why aren't they declaring income?

Let's have a little closer look at this person.

And then you're in trouble in the terms of, we'll just Do a little compliance check, which then goes back down to six years or 20 years if they start to fund these.

Louise.

But that's my business model updated with the bike.

Natalia, I wish you could claim pence per mile for walking because that would.

That would at least be a positive for the dog walkers out there.

But unfortunately not.

On another positive note, we are attending Crufts again this year in a couple of months.

We've got a stand.

We have got a stand there, which we're there.

We have been there for the last.

No.

How many have you done?

Three, I think.

Have you done three with me?

No, two.

So this will be the third one.

This will be our third.

And then.

So four years in total, we are in the same hall we were last year, which is hall one, stand 58, which is basically the entrance to hall one.

We will be there, the entrance for one.

So if you are a client, you want to come and say hello, then please come and see it.

We will have Prosecco on tap and if you're not a client and you do want to come and chat to.

Us in person, they're still hop second.

You come in fact with.

Then we are going to have a bigger, better stand.

The only downside is we might have as much freebies as we've had before because, yeah, free agents and zero are being stingy with their tut that they send us, which everyone likes, especially the socks.

But we haven't tried Dext.

No, but I think free stuff.

I think the reason that free agent and Xero now stopped with their.

Their freebies is because everybody is having to go towards making tax digital which means that you have to pick a software, whether it be Dex, free agent, Xero.

Still, you'd still think they'd want to like be like pick us slight here.

But I think because more people are being forced into the marketplace, they're gaining the business without having give away and spend money on the freebies.

I mean, me and you looked at keyring tokens, didn't we, for this craft?

So we mazed by the.

And that's amazing.

Next year we might have some little trolley tokens because everyone loves a good trolley token.

Yeah.

Rather than a pen.

Because everyone.

Well, to be fair, everyone just came last year to steal the pens off the table in error of doing like a spinny wheel win stuff which did go down well.

Apart from the people who didn't have a pet business and children who wanted to spread it to Adoles being the wheel.

What do I win?

And I'm like Well if you want a free accounting pack then you can have that.

But yes, we will be there.

Hall 1 All four days myself will be there, Lee, Tegan, Jodie, our payroll manager and Nicola, one of our lovely admin ladies.

So there'll be a lot of us.

There this, there will be a lot of us there this year and we have a brand new stand designed as well.

So no more roll up banners.

No more.

I mean we thought it looked good and then we looked at the photo and realized how shit it looked and actually were mortified about how bad it looked.

Yeah but yeah, step up the game this year I'm going to let my.

Car, we live on stand.

Look how fun it is.

And I literally looked at the pictures and went that looks absolutely crap.

So we are going to look bigger and better this time.

We'll be more snazzy.

We could go and some sweets and things.

We've even got stands for our accounting packs that we're able to sell.

So you see counting these sold out so quick because we had a little printed.

We run out of them.

I'm getting them printed earlier this year so hopefully next week they're going to go into production.

I'm going to get 150 of them printed initially.

They'll be on sale on the website.

We'll let you guys know once they're on sale on the website so we can post them out to you.

They have had an update from last year so this year we have mileage log in there.

We have a stock take form as well to help you work out when you should do a stock take if you sell things and how you price those items on the stock take.

We've updated it so that the groomers, the walkers and the trainers and the home boarders are all in one book now.

Don't have to have different books.

We've consolidated some of the expenses side so that once you've done the individual months you can then fill them in as totals on a running total on a month by month basis.

So there's been lots and lots of changes.

There's been some updates into the expenses.

So again they are, I wouldn't say they're much better than last year but we've certainly raised the game with them again this year.

So if you bought them last year and you enjoyed using them and again you don't have to use them with us if you've got another accountant yet, the accountant can take all of the information from these books as you go.

Might even help them if they're not even helpful.

It's accountant.

Yes, yes, there we go.

Little giggle there.

Yeah.

So they should be on sale by the end of this month.

And like I said, it's not done on a first come, first serve basis once they've gone.

Because, because on period of time we don't want to get too many of them printed because they're expensive and for us to have them just sat around and not sell them, it just doesn't make financial sense.

So we only get a limited number produced and then once they're all gone, they're gone.

Like I said last year they did sell out.

They, they went really, really quickly.

Yeah, we were a bit shocked.

But how quick they went.

Especially if you love your good old fashioned paper and pen.

Yeah, it's quite ready.

Or you like to do it on the go.

Even some people buy them, use them and use a spreadsheet.

They just like to be able to write stuff down as and when they go.

So they are.

Because you, you can then transfer it from the book straight onto the spreadsheet.

And we'll do a little show and tell when we get printed here and we'll show you what it looks like.

And because obviously it's easy when you're at Crux, people could come and have a little butcher's.

They were that good.

Last year we had accountants coming up to us at Crufts going, these are brilliant.

So slap.

Yeah.

And it wasn't just the one accountant.

We had many.

Yeah, we would.

Yes.

Slap in the hands.

We'll go away.

Louise has got a quick question, see how it sound.

It wasn't worth me getting you to do my touchdown for this year because I am a law fan.

Would it be worth me doing myself to see if I do get anything back and do us?

I would just.

Louise, drop me an email because obviously this is personal to you.

Yeah.

So just drop me an email and we'll have it.

We'll have a chat that way rather than airing your business on this podcast.

As a general rule of thumb.

And again, Louise, I don't know your personal circumstances, so I'm just talking if, if this is somebody's first year in business, just because you have generated in sales, so not profit, this is physical sales at the front end.

If you've generated less than a thousand pounds, you can claim a trading allowance of a thousand pounds.

That offsets it so that you don't have to fill in a full self assessment.

However, in your first year of trade you can go as far back as seven years and claim for expenses within those seven years that you now use within your business and that you still have.

So if you've bought computers, you've bought mobile phones, you've got a home office that you've kitted out with desks and chairs and shelving units and carpets and blinds and, you know, you might have stationary, you might have storage boxes, there could be a whole host of things that by claiming that 1,000 pound trading allowance, you're waving goodbye to in your first year of trading.

Generally, if you've paid tax through employment, if you have bought things that you are now using in your business, we can get you a tax refund.

You won't get that tax refund if you claim the 1,000 pound trading allowance.

So just please bear that in mind.

Accountants to your first year of trading will usually save you more money than they will cost you in their services on 90% of the cases.

That's it's not always because we go, everybody's individual and everybody's different, but.

But generally good.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Dog.

Dog walkers are probably one of the ones that we struggle with, with the setup costs because there's not much that they have generally bought.

But, but dog trainers may have agility equipment as well as the office equipment and even the dog walker can still have a home office.

So if you've dedicated space at home or in a van, then absolutely you will have things that you've bought.

So just bear that in mind before you go and opt to use that thousand pound because you can't.

If you use the thousand, the expenses that you didn't claim for during the year, you can't roll those forward into the next year, they're gone.

So that thousand pound replaces those expenses and it also replaces the past seven year of claims.

So just bear that in mind if you are going to go down that route.

Say goodbye to your startup costs and say goodbye to the expenses that you spent during the year if you chose to claim a thousand pounds.

Fabulous.

Thank you very much, Louise, for the question.

Because there will be people out there that are on the fence and go, I don't need to do one because I haven't earned £1,000.

But like Lee says, you're going to miss out on, especially if you're a groomer because you have so many start plots and you do not want to miss out on those.

So make sure again, if you're stuck, you know, put a message in the group messages directly email us.

All our contact details are on the professional business and finance hub.

You can message us on there, tag us in any questions.

Myself, Lee, Abby, Lindsay, Tegan are always in the group so and always tag us if you do have anything or if you'd like to call us on the number below.

Yeah, I was trying to click people's comments like you know normally click them and they pop up on the screen but it's not letting you do it.

So if you give me out for I'm some access to do that.

Yeah.

I have to wind you in for the technological side.

I know what you're going to be Psych.

I'll probably so right.

That is us for now because we must get back.

Step up to self assessments.

One little break.

This was a nice break.

Yeah, nice little change.

But we will be back next week where we'll think of a fabulous topic.

We will try and do one of these every week this month.

It might become a little bit difficult for us how busy we've been.

Yeah, we'll try and do one next week.

Whether we do one or two more after that, it depends on how busy we are.

But from that point we will be here on a regular basis.

We have got few courses in mind that we might be bringing out.

Remember that if you are a person that struggles to work out how much tax to save or you wondering how much your tax bill is going to be when they get to this point, we do have a tax and pricing calculator on Facebook, on our website, in the store.

So if you would like to manage how much tax to put away every month as you go, then that card will do it for you as cheap as chips and it'll just save you a lot of hassle of guessing how.

Much tax it does.

A lot more than that as well.

In all honesty.

It not only helps you save for the tax, but it also tells you how much per hour you should be charging, how much per dog you should be charging on average.

It shows you your incoming and outgoing as.

As a.

On a graphical form so you can see if your income is outstripping your outgoings.

It also works out that if you was to shut your business down at this point in time, exactly how much tax you would pay, you know, for.

For.

If we was to do it today for argument's sake.

So it's, it's very, very simple to use.

But the metrics and the data that it gives you back as a business owner is phenomenal and it allows you to plan for those tax bills as well.

So you'll know that you go in it, you tell how much A year you want to make you tell it what your estimated expenses are and then it'll tell you what to charge per hour.

And as long as you hit your number of dogs that you said that you were going to do, as long as you were hitting out the average watch per dog that it tells you to charge, and then you enter all your expenses as they go month by month and your income month by month, it'll tell you exactly how much tax that you're currently doing and whether or not you're on target to hit your desired income levels.

And for a business owner to be able to say, right, I want to earn £40,000 a year after, oh, I've paid all my expenses, I want to earn £40,000 a year, what do I need to charge?

And that tax calculator tells you so.

It's brilliant.

And if you know, I would get what I'm lucky in the sense that I have my tax calculator in the human form, that is Lee Thomas.

So I just text Lee going, how much tax do I need to spare?

How much does my tax be in January and how much do I need to save?

And he tells me three.

Brilliant.

So I have a Keenan tax calculator.

Right, we will depart on that note and we will see you guys next week and like I said, if you, if you are struggling, give us a shout.

If you have done it, then happy days and we will see you guys next week.

Lovely.

Catch you all next week and hopefully you won't be as stressed with your self assessments.

It's all done.

File Dustin page.

We'd be great by then, but it'd be fine by that.

Lovely, Take care.

Bye.

Thanks for listening.

If you've enjoyed my podcast, don't forget to subscribe for me and if you want to speak to me, please visit my website@www.petaccountant.co.uk and if you'd like to join my Facebook group, which is full of like minded pet professionals, then search accounting for pet professionals in Facebook and I will see you there.

SA.