I'm Matthew Fraser, and this is Crypto Collective. After

making millions with Amazon and e-commerce, I realized that

if I was starting again today, crypto would be my

first choice. I'm here to help you take your first steps

and build real wealth. Ready to set yourself up for life?

Let's go. Yeah, awesome. Adam Hudson, the

one and only. Thank you so much for joining me on the Crypto Collective. How are

Well, it's great to see you. And just to let everybody know, I've known Adam now for

coming up to nearly 10 years. And I've always spoken about how I've

made over $70 million turnover in

the Amazon e-commerce space. And

it was actually all thanks to Adam dating back to about 2016 when

you launched Reliable Education. And you were actually my

mentor. And I remember sitting at your table at

your previous Gold Coast beachfront apartment

Yeah. Mate, time has flown, hasn't it? My goodness. And

what a journey it's been. But, you know, it's a new world we're

moving into. So, yeah, it's exciting to see where you've gone as well, mate, down

the Bitcoin rabbit hole and now speaking to thousands of IKLEI, which

Oh, I mean, I absolutely love it now. And it's so funny how we've sort of, we've

gone almost in a similar journey in different directions, but

we sort of come around again back into this Bitcoin space. It's kind of brought us

back together because it becomes not just a

I mean, Bitcoin's one of those things

you sort of start off and it's you know, you just sort of get into

it because you think it might be a good investment and maybe you should diversify your portfolio.

But once you actually start learning what it actually really is, it's,

yeah, it's, yeah, depends how far down the rabbit hole

you go, but it really is quite a special technology and

also in some ways a spiritual technology. It's a really interesting area

Yeah. Well, there's so much I want to dive into today with you, Adam. And

I feel really honoured to have you on here because I don't think many people get

to interview you. You seem to interview a lot of other people. But I want to

peel back some layers, nothing that you haven't, of course, already spoken about before. But

one of the things is I think most Australians will be absolutely shocked

to discover that you essentially had it all. You had the beachfront

apartment, a multi-million dollar apartment on the Gold Coast of

Main Beach. You had the brand new Porsche. You had a portfolio of

commercial properties. You then sold it

Yeah, so Matt, I guess I'm the

poster child of having

a midlife crisis maybe. I turned 50 and I'd spent

30 years chasing money in Australia. I started from Browns

Plains, as you said, and in Brisbane. You

know, at the end of that 30-year journey, I had all those things, you

know, I had the $7 million apartment and industrial

building portfolio, all that stuff, and no debt, was in an

extremely good position, but there was one thing missing and that was happiness. I

just wasn't happy. And I

really, you know, obviously found that quite shocking. at

age 50 to have found myself there. And it sort of

hit me on my 50th birthday. And I really started to think about

why I started this journey. And the

real reason that I started in business was freedom.

That was my number one motivation. And

I realized I'd set up a life that was beautiful, but it wasn't providing me

with a lot of freedom. And so I really started to ask myself

some hard questions about, you know, optimising my life

for freedom, except in reality that I've probably got 20 good

summers left of, you know, having really good physical health, maybe

30. My mum died at 58, which was, you know, only eight

years from when I was thinking about this at 50. And

I just sort of, yeah, just had a massive reality check. And

I looked around and looked at, you know, what I owned and did the

math and realised, look, if I just restructure my life here and optimise for

freedom, I can actually do this. And so I did. And

today I'm coming to you from the south of France. I've just gotten off a boat. I've been out

at sea off the coast of Italy and Spain for the last 10 days. And

I've just spent three days here in this beautiful part on the coastline, just on

my own, just exploring, slow traveling. And that's sort of

how it changed my life. And Bitcoin has been a huge part of it as well,

because Bitcoin is freedom money. It's

truly something that enables me to no longer

rely on government. And I guess the other thing that sort

of was conflated with this feeling of being

in a system was at the same time I built this life

of property and all these things that

the most Australians aspire to. I also could see the

direction of Australia as a country and where it was going and it was heartbreaking. And

I think we crossed the Rubicon when more than 50% of our voter

base is actually reliant either

on a government salary or on a government handout for their primary source

of income. And so I just

saw that in the assets that I was in, that

the government was just going to see it as a honeypot and tax

it to death. And I couldn't move those assets because they

are in the ground. And Australia basically runs

on real estate. You take real estate out of the Australian economy, and

there's some real problems. And of course, that's becoming true.

Like on the Gold Coast, you're seeing they've invented a view tax,

where if you're over level four, you get, I think it's almost 50% increase

in your rates. And Melbourne, we're seeing what's happened down there. We're seeing

spare room tax. We're seeing the government go after unrealized

gains in capital gains, sorry, unrealized gains in super, we're

seeing the most bloated bureaucracy in the world is

now Australia. I could see where

the country was going and I just didn't see

a solution to the problems given

that we're a democracy and in my opinion, a broken democracy now

that is more than 50% of the database is going to vote for whoever's going

to give them the most money and continue their handouts. And

so, yeah, Bitcoin enabled me to get off

those rails so that they no longer can control what I say,

and they can't control me through money anyway. And

it's given me a reliable savings technology that

is not being deflated every single day. My life's getting cheaper because

I denominate in Bitcoin. which is kind of interesting. Somebody

said to me the other day, geez, didn't you get walloped with moving to Europe with the

euro? I said, I priced my life in Bitcoin. One Bitcoin is one Bitcoin. Exchange

rates don't really matter as much. So yeah, that's a lot to

No, it's great. And of course, so much to unpack in just

that alone. But, you know, I think you become even more

so an inspirational figure, certainly within Australia. I

mean, you've obviously got the Unemployable Media podcast, which

I encourage everyone to go and watch. I mean, I went on your podcast recently, which

was fantastic. And people should go and watch the episode because we

unpacked a lot to do with SMSF and also Bitcoin mining. But

because you're so inspirational and influential

now, Adam, particularly in Australia, a

lot of people are following you as to what you are doing, right? And so

I think there are people who are sort of waking up to the fact that, hey,

Adam's done this, this is something that perhaps we could do. Do

you know, I mean, how easy though is it for the average punter, the

average punter, Adam, not someone who's in your position, to really pack up things

Yeah, look, I mean, it's actually easy and I think people overcomplicate

these things. I remember interviewing a guest who's an Australian

champion boxer, her name was Avril Lavigne. I think it was

Avril Lavigne or Avril, no that's the, it was Avril. Singer.

And she told her story of moving to Miami and becoming a

professional boxer with no skills, like she went and learned and she joined a

gym there and got trained and then she went on to becoming like second or

third ranked or something in the world. And I said, wow, that's an amazing move. I

basically asked the same question as you. She said, well, it's not that hard. I just bought

a plane ticket and I got off the plane and I walked into a gym and I started. And

it hit me like in the face. I was like, you know, she's actually right. A

lot of the problem is the story, right? Since

I've moved, I've had dozens, and I mean dozens of

Australians. I live in Cyprus, as you probably know, and I'm

seeing every week two, three Australian families

turning up in Cyprus, hitting me up on Instagram saying, can we have a coffee? Can

we catch up? And I'm like, sure. And I've met all of them. And there's now a

little WhatsApp group. that we started in Cyprus of Australians that have

actually moved or are about to move. So it's not as

hard as people think. The stories in people's heads make it complicated. I

can't because of this. I can't because of that. But I think we're moving into

a world, Matthew, where Australia

is so heavily taxed and

it's such a difficult place to make money. Employing

Australians is difficult. The tax is difficult. And

we're sort of, there are still some people who believe it's the lucky country

and they have this mantra drilled into their head. But there's

actually other places in the world that are far more receptive and

supportive of you being in business and

trying to create wealth. And so I think, well, I

know we're seeing a mass exodus of millionaires out of Australia. And

I think if you're serious about optimizing your life to build wealth, a

serious discussion about, hey, do you want to spend 10 years somewhere else

to really establish it? Because the math, when

you start growing money with minimal or no tax,

is undeniable. The difference is

enormous. And that's certainly

available to people if they want to explore it. It does mean leaving Australia. You

Well, you sold everything, Adam. And a lot of people say to

me, Why can't I just move to another country, but

I'm going to keep all my properties and my toys and what

have you. And it's because I'm going to visit, I'm going to come back to it later to

sort of, I guess, use it and experience it. Why can't people do that?

You can. I could have kept my properties. I just would have been taxed punitively.

But I do have to establish a presence overseas legitimately.

You can't just sort of float around. You have

to be able to show the ATO, look, I have left. I now have

a home here. I have a mobile bill. I have a

power bill. All these things. You have to do it clean, right? It's

not the type of thing you want to do and mess around with. You really

need to establish somewhere else. But

I simply looked at the world and for me, when

you really understand Bitcoin, for example, you

start to have a new hurdle right for investments. And

a lot of people listening to this are not down the rabbit hole very far

at all. They still think that Bitcoin is a high

risk speculative investment. But once

you actually do understand it, you know, it

becomes sort of the risk off investment. And the

hurdle rate of Bitcoin, you just got to look at its history and ensure

it's had enormous growth over its entire life. But if you look at it just

over the last five years, you see that there's a compound annual growth rate there

of about 45 to 50% per year over

the last five years. Even if you have that and say it's growing at 20% a

year, that's still triple what Australian real estate grows at.

Now, Australian real estate over the last 40 years has compounded

at 7.3%. Now, whether that will continue into the future, I

don't know. I sort of have this feeling

that the world's undergoing a lot of change. And

I think, you know, there's going to be some big

When you say changes, though, Adam, when you say changes, what do you mean? Like

changes in more government control, do

you think? Or less government control? You know, higher

Yeah, well, if you read the tea leaves on what's happening there,

I think government is going to keep taxing and taxing and taxing until

people rise up and resist and push back. And

in three or four days time, I'm going to be in London with Tommy Robinson and

with Jordan Peterson and Russell Brand. You're

seeing it in the UK now. The UK is a tinderbox. I

was speaking to Tommy a couple of days ago and he said that there's estimated

to be a million people turning out for the largest street protest in

European history this weekend. Wow. And

the world is watching and what's happened

to the UK is happening in Australia. I'm

hoping that Australians will stand up sooner and

more vigorously than the UK. The UK, I don't know if

it can be saved because they did not protect

their country well enough. And now we have an

ideology that's driving their government. You know, at

1.9 of 12, there's 12 regions that manage the UK and 9 of 12 were

Muslim leaders inside of a Christian country. Now, that

fundamentally changes the nature

of the country. And the question Australians need to ask

is, does Australia want to have that kind of political representation

in office in Australia? And if Australians

don't stand up and don't learn from the UK, you're

going to see that happen. The Mayor of London is

a Muslim and he came out last week and announced that

they are prioritising the building 40,000 or 30,000 homes

for marginalised British people who

are Muslim. So they've literally, in their housing

crisis, prioritised building homes for Muslim people. Now imagine

how that would go down in Australia right now given that

Australians are struggling to find rents. Now, I know

Muslim is not a race, but

Australia is fundamentally a Christian country as well. So

I see all these sorts of turmoil and for me personally,

selling real estate. I made a lot of money in real estate and I'm very

grateful for Australian real estate. But

if you take leverage out of real estate and if you don't want to borrow money anymore

in your life, you're at that point now where you've created enough wealth that you don't need

to borrow money to create enough wealth to live an

amazing life from this point. And for me, I think, you

know, if you're in that phase of borrowing money still, sure, real

estate's great with leverage, but you take leverage out of real estate, there

are a lot better investments out there. And

even real estate, the returns are not... you

know, residential real estate is all dependent really on

capital growth and commercial real estate when they're sold on

leases at what you know as having owned industrial buildings like I

have, they say, oh, we're selling this building at a yield of 6%. Well,

that's not really the yield because you have roofs that leak

and you have tenants that stop paying for three months and then say, oh,

sorry, we can't pay and they leave. So you've lost three months rent and you take another two or

three months for another tenant. Before you know it, you've lost six months of

revenue for the year. It's not a 6% yield for that year, it's three. But

with Bitcoin, you don't have any of these issues.

You don't have tenants, you don't have the risk of

somebody Elon

Musk, I've got a big Tesla stack and I worry about

Elon getting shot or I worry about Elon going into politics

and taking his eye off the ball with Tesla. There's all

these counterparty risks, government regulation that the robo-taxis won't

come in or whatever. There's all these things, whereas with

Bitcoin, it's a singular bet. Does the world

need sound money? Is the US government going to keep printing

money and the rest of the governments right now, Japan, the US, all

the big economies, the M2 money printing as

we sit and talk today is at all time highs historically right

now as we sit here. So that's just pure math. When

will people learn that prices are

not going up at Coles and Woolies, their money is going down,

their money is broken, but instead They

tell us, oh, you know, be angry with Coles and Woolworths and the greedy banksters.

Yeah, that's true. There is some price gouging, but

the US dollar has lost 80%, 83% of

its buying power against gold in the last five years. 83% in

five years, right? And if you want to know the answer to Bitcoin,

you can look it up, but it's even worse than gold, right?

How much you've lost. So does the world need a

way to store its spiritual gift,

its life force, which is money as an abstracted form

of our time. So when we go to work and we get given these little paper

tokens called money, when the government's printing that money at

infinitum, it's debasing our time and

we've bought this lie that inflation is necessary. And

it's what keeps the economy going, which incentivises people to spend rather

than invest, to live on a short-term timeframe. But once

people start to figure out that there is an option, that if you store your

money, prices get cheaper. Earlier this week there was a report out,

I shared it on a pod yesterday, but the numbers for

something like bacon and pork, products are down 43% year

to date, if you were saving in Bitcoin. Fuel,

you know, is down 33%. Beef is

down 28%. So it's like 30 to 40% cheaper

today, if you're a Bitcoiner, so far this year than if

you're a fiat currencier. There's a lot there, Matt,

Oh, jeez. Well, let me just go back to some of the numbers that you mentioned before about doing

the numbers. I did some numbers just recently. And I said, look, just over

the next 10 years, if I'm earning half a million dollars, let's

say, and I've got to pay tax on that, let's say, even just

gross, I'd have $5 million, no tax. If the

tax that I would have to normally pay, which is going up to be close to

40%, 50% in Australia, if I was to allocate that, so if I was in a no

tax jurisdiction, for example, like Dubai has no income tax,

no personal income tax, and I allocated that to Bitcoin, it was going to be a

difference of like $5 million in Australia, roughly,

to like $70 million. if I allocated that to big. And that was

the difference. And so that's the missed opportunity. That's, I

guess, the opportunity cost by living in this high-tax environment. And

why you feel like someone said to me the other day, it was actually a teacher at the school. He

said, Matt, this guy, Adam, is driving a

1989 VN Commodore to school, right? Just because he

parks under the tree or whatever, right? This guy is just completely old school. And

he goes, you know what? I went and saw the financial advisor. And they said, we've got to cut

back. Can you believe it?

He's like, what am I cutting back on, Matt? I'm

driving a frickin' 1989 VN Commodore wagon, right,

which is all rusted and everything. And I said, you're right. You're

always in that position where you're kind of like 2% behind. You

can't just quite get there. And then, of course, you might get a pay

rise. And then, of course, groceries goes up again. And rents go up

again. And so you're forever chasing your tail. And I think you're

so right. It's until people realize the power of Bitcoin and everything you

just described then, and start allocating to Bitcoin, that they're kind

of not really going to get it. And you're actually never going to get ahead because of the hurdle rate.

Yeah, look, 100%. I think a lot of, you know, look, becoming

wealthy is not free, right? Like, you know, I'm sitting

here in this beautiful hotel on the edge

of the ocean here in the Mediterranean as I speak to you. in

the South of France and I've had a beautiful few days here, but it wasn't without

sacrifice, right? Like I think sometimes people have to

really have those hard conversations. Like one of the worst investments

in the world is your own home, right? Like people have millions

of dollars or a million dollars or whatever tied up in their own home. I

don't now, like I look back and I go, I bought

my apartment on the Gold Coast for $4.75 million in COVID. I

just sold it for $7 million because I did the numbers and

went, well, you know, okay, I had a beautiful home and I

had a great experience and it was fantastic. And I got the ego boost of

living in one of the best buildings, probably the best building on the Gold Coast at the time

that I bought in there, a whole floor, four bedrooms, you know, the whole lot

on the sand, no road in front, celebrity neighbors, all

that. And then I did the math and I went, if I had not, and

then on top of that, it cost me body corporate every year, it cost

me rates, it cost me X, and I worked out just the actual,

you know, cost was about 50 grand a year in body corporate, rates, electricity,

all those things. 50, 60 grand. Then I have repair bills. Like,

for example, a building I'm in is clad in

real wood. Like, it's really special. But there's

only seven owners in that building, right? And I was the poorest guy

in the building. I literally had billionaires. I literally had billionaires. Very

Well, no. When the wood got worn out, they had to sand

the wood back and recoat it. And it was a $350,000 bill. to

just send the word back and record a split between seven people. I

did the math just on what I invested in the property. It's

4.75 plus stamps, $5 million. Pay for it cash, right? If

I put that money into Bitcoin at the same time, today I'd have another $30 million of

Bitcoin. And to earn it, I just had to do nothing. Literally

nothing. If I just said, I'll just rent

for another five years. Even if I paid

$1,500, $2,000 a week, I would be so far ahead. It would be ridiculous

if I'd done that. And so today I don't own a car. I

don't own a house. Um, and I

live free, right? And you know, I, um, I

have, like last night I went out and I spent 400 euro

on a, on a degustation, incredible chef here in

France. And I paid for it with my crypto at

Paid for it in Bitcoin, you know, and people go, how do you do that? And I'm like, if

you do a little bit of research, it's easy to do. So

yeah, so basically, it's not free. You have to be able to

make sacrifices, Matt, is what I'm saying. And I look at,

I've liquidated all this financial energy. And

even if Bitcoin is going to compound at 20% a year for the next five years,

and I'm now living in a tax free location as regards to

crypto and the way I'm set up, I'm going to be so

far ahead of the average punter who's addicted

to or the idea that they must live where they live. They

must have their own home. It's okay, that's your choice and that's

the decision you're making, but you are going to be worse

off by a factor of perhaps 80%, literally, over me

choosing to live in a lower cost environment, not having to pay tax, and

giving up the perceived safety of

Adam, so controversial. Not owning your

own home in Australia. He's going to go, what? What is he saying? Sacrilege.

It is sacrilege. What do you mean you don't want to have your own home in Australia? It's

the lucky country. But wow, because a

lot of people are going to watch this and think, is this guy nuts? But I

remember when I allocated all of my superannuation

into Bitcoin, I know people are like, are you freaking crazy?

You've got to diversify and have all these things. And in my

mind, I was actually at that stage, I was still thinking I was quite diversified anyway, because

I still had my industrial sheds and what have you. But now

as times progressed, and you may not know this, but I'm

actually looking to move out myself. I'm gearing things up. I'm dematerializing,

Adam. which is the new craze word, dematerializing.

And I've always just said, look, even if I don't end up moving, there's two parts

to this. If I don't end up moving and I only get a plan B golden

visa, for example, to UAE, I'm still going

to sell all those assets anyway, because I'm going to allocate that to Bitcoin anyway.

And then the next hurdle is, OK, how do I get around paying

as least tax as possible, which will then be deciding whether we

Of course, I've got a wife involved in this. If it was just

purely me, I would be there already. I'd be gone, right?

But obviously, this is the things that we tell ourselves. You mentioned before about,

oh, we've got family here, or our parents are here. We've got

a dog here. Just the dog, even. It's like, oh, we can't move

because of the dog. I'm like, baby, $70 million. Can

we give the dog to our parents for a bit or something? And

one thing is that people have to realize is that when you're moving

out of Australia, you actually have to sever ties. You

have to prove that you're not in Australia rather than just sort of moving out

in order to sever tax ties, I guess you would say. Otherwise,

it can still just sort of follow you around. Like you said, you can't just move from place

to place. Can I ask you, Adam, now that you've been

through this process yourself, what's something that you could give

us advice for? Hey, if I was to do this whole move again out

of Australia to, in your case, Cyprus, what would you do again? Is

Yeah, look, I mean, I think to answer just to speak to what you just spoke

on there, I think it's very real, though. Like there are it's

moving countries. You know, you can watch Andrew at Nomad Capitalist

or, you know, all these guys that talk about doing it. And of course, that's their business. So

they're telling everybody they should do it. And they are right from a purely

mathematical point of view. It makes a lot of sense for a lot of people.

But life isn't just math, right? Like there

are elderly parents and

things like this. And so it really is, it comes down to

a question of values as well. Like, are you prepared to pay a

lot more tax and sacrifice wealth creation for time with

family? And in some cases, you know, I travel the world

with everywhere I go, I have a photo of my mum and I put it

in a frame and I put everywhere I set up where I am, I set it

up so it feels a little bit like home. If I could have

another year with my mom, I'd pay anything, right? But she died at 58. So

I think there is real value in acknowledging

that, but at least do the thought exercise of really understanding this

is the price you're paying. You've probably seen the street interview

where the guy goes up to people and says, hey, listen, if I could give you Warren

Buffett's money, $100 billion, But you had to be

93 years old, would you take the money? And most

people go, no. And he says, well, you just valued your life at $93 billion. Are

you living accordingly? So it's a very simple thought

exercise that every Australian should do and really

write down, this is what it's costing me to stay. So at the very

least, you're going to make the most of being in Australia. because

you're realizing what it's costing you to be there, and you say, I'm

signing up for it at that price, now let's live accordingly in Australia,

let's get our minds straight, our positive mode on, and be grateful

for being there. Others are gonna go, you know what, we can do

this, it's gonna be uncomfortable for a while, and they're gonna go and do it, and that's okay. So

I think the things that I would do differently if

I was to do it again is, I mean, you really got to understand the

jurisdiction in which you're going to. So in my particular circumstance, I'm

on my own. So it's very easy for me. I don't have children.

I'm single. So I can travel

and do what I want to do. I

look for, and my values are

number one, freedom. So I wanna

be free to travel and my plan is for

the next 10 years, I wanna slow travel and I wanna find a

cadence with the planet. So what I mean is, I

love Europe in summer. Absolutely adore this place.

I love everything about it. I love the way the people are. I love how they're relaxed.

It's a liberal place. People

are pretty much left alone. So I like

all of that. I like the fact that you can smoke a

cigarette if you want to. Not that I smoke cigarettes, but I like the fact that you can. I

like the fact that you can walk down the street in a dress if

you're a bloke and people don't care. Not that I wear dresses and walk down the

But in Australia, everyone's wearing Aura rings and optimizing

every little thing. to continue their miserable lives

where they're stressed out all the time and angry. And I'm like, you're

going to die, bro. Make sure you live and enjoy it. So I

want to optimize my year around, okay, I want to spend more

time, for example, in Japan, and I would like to spend maybe a month a year in

a different part of Japan and discover more about history and cooking and

different things. So I want to look at the world and what's going on

on the planet at certain times and make myself available to

experience those things, spend time, slow travel in

Portugal for a month. So that's how

I want to set my life up. So for me, and I

have the means to be able to travel well wherever I want, that for me

is winning. I put up a post yesterday and I said I want no stress,

I want as few people in my life as possible that I'm reliant on

for my income. and now I'm blessed with a multi-seven bigger

income, it follows me wherever I am, and it

doesn't rely on humans. So with

all of that in mind, I have to look for a jurisdiction that is

best for me. And the key thing is

non, what do they call it, territorial tax

system. So if you look at somewhere like Panama, for example, they

have a territorial tax system. And essentially what that means is they're only

interested in taxing you on income that's generated inside

of Panama or profits that are generated from buying and selling physical assets

inside of Panama, like buying and selling a business that's in Panama, buying and selling a

property that's in Panama. But if you are generating your

capital gains and profits and things outside of Panama, then there's

no tax. on those things at all. And then you look at

how long do you need to live in that jurisdiction to qualify for

tax residency there. So Panama is a really

interesting place to some South American countries, given that you don't have

to live there permanently, you know, like 12 months

of the year to qualify and so on. So this is where it gets really into

the detail. But there are jurisdictions like where I'm going to

Panama in February and the mayor of Panama is meeting us to

welcome us there and we're going to try and get him on video because

these places actually want wealthy people to come, people

who own Bitcoin, people who have resources and are going to

spend money in their countries. And Australians, I

think, have this misconception that everywhere in the world is shit except Australia.

Absolutely they do. It's absolutely not the case, and

they're all afraid. People go, right now I'm in Marseille in France. People

go, oh Marseille, isn't that a bit dangerous? I'm like, dude, it's

awesome. Did you just see the machete attacks in

Melbourne, you know what I mean? Oh my God, like Australia is not becoming

the safest place in the world. So yeah, and so the

country, the world is a beautiful place, and I like colour

and diversity, and I like I

like to see how most of the world lives. Australia's a little bubble, and it's a beautiful little

bubble. And if I do go back, and I will at some point, every time I've lived overseas

before, I lived in the States for five years, and every time I went back to Australia, you

go, man, it's so beautiful. Like, Australia is the hot person of

the world. It's so beautiful. But the personality sometimes

Well, let me ask you this then, Adam. So let's just

say, you know, you're obviously, you're living the life right now, you're traveling the world, doing what you

want to do, you're under freedom. Do you, in the back of your mind, have

some sort of an idea like, you know what, maybe I will

end up in Australia, you know, when I'm 70 or something? Is

No, no. This is why I still have started

speaking up about my views on where Australia is

going on my socials, right? Like I got three and a half million views just on

my Instagram in the last 30 days. with

no ads or anything, just me posting. Which is incredible. Yeah, totally

organic. And I'm posting this content because I

still love Australia. I think all Australians who

were born in Australia, I don't care what nationality you are before

that, but if you're born in Australia, Australia gets in

your blood. My family emigrated on

the boats after World War II. You

know, I love Australia in so many ways and that's why I want to

see it protected and I want Australia to feel like Australia, you

know, still. And so in my

head I have a vague plan that in 10 years I might

settle back down in Australia but this 10 years I will compound

my wealth aggressively and grow my wealth substantially

to the point where when I do come back even if property

has doubled from here, my

investments will far outstrip that performance and

be compounding at a far higher rate

Could I even go as far as to say, Adam, that you're probably

Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. In 10 years, I'll absolutely be

a centi-millionaire for sure. And so

when I come back in that time though, and I'm 60, At

that point, yeah, I could see myself

buying a place for $20 million for a two-bedroom apartment on Sydney Harbour

and happily pay it. It wouldn't even matter because that's probably

what I would do, is buy something that's maybe

$10 million today and buy $20 million. But at that point in my life, for me, it

won't matter. And people might say, well, that's a stupid

amount of money to send the house. Well, I'll be dead 20 years later. So just buy what you

want, buy what makes you happy. And I want to wake up in the morning with

my cup of tea and my fucking biscuits and look at Sydney Harbour Bridge

and watch the ferries go under and go. Beautiful views. Yeah,

go and enjoy the Aussie beaches and all that stuff, and spend the last years

of my life there. But I still don't think I would be there year round. I

would basically, I think, spend three to six months a year there, even

when I am a tax resident again. But the key is, at that point in time, I'll

have compounded my wealth to a point where I

can do whatever, wherever. And

I think a lot of people just struggle to imagine, and this isn't

criticism, they don't know what it's like to have money. And

that's why they go, why would you leave Australia? Why don't you stay and be loyal? Listen,

fuckwit, if you have tens of millions of dollars and

the government's fucking you at every turn, of course rich

people are going to leave because they can easily jump on a good quality business

class flight, eat some nice food, and 12 hours later be in a tax jurisdiction that

wants them. where they're safe, where if you want to fuck around and

find out with the Dubai government about what happens if you chop someone's arm off,

well, good luck with that. Let's see how that works out for you. You want to go and march down

the main road in Dubai there, burning

their flag and chanting

anti-Muslim slogans. Good luck with that. Let's see how

you go. I was laughing and just couldn't believe it when I

saw on the Sydney Harbour Bridge, LGBTQ people for

Palestine. I'm like, that is like watching a chicken march in

a pro-KFC protest. Like, they'll literally

throw you off that bridge. Yeah, they're completely oblivious

to it though. And I just don't get it. And I'm like, when

will Australians start standing up? So all I'm saying is,

people with money, when they have money,

they have choice. And Australia needs to realize that

being hot is not enough to sustain a long-term

relationship with quality people. Quality people need

Yeah. I love that, though, because it's something that I don't think is actually spoken about enough

about moving out to compound your

wealth, right? Out of a high-tax jurisdiction to

a low or no-tax jurisdiction, compound it,

and then you're kind of free to go at any country, regardless of the tax system, because

Well look, I did the math, one of my income sources is, you

know about it, I'm compounding money at 12% a month.

and it's been doing that for two years, right? And I

sat down and I showed Australian, a couple of Australians, I said, let me

show you the difference between me compounding at 12% a month and you

doing the exact same investment in Australia at

a tax rate of 37%, right? And the difference after

five years was 78% difference in

our position. So literally, I could do 80% less

well and still match you just simply by where I

wake up in the morning. That's the only difference. I'm

four times further down the road than you for

doing nothing else than just

Adam, I want to bring it back to SMSF for a moment because we're going to run out

of time soon. We're going off here. Australians

who obviously don't have the means like you do to just pack up

and leave, let's say, maybe they don't have a digital business either. I

do have that outside of this, which I can easily do. However,

one of the strategies that we do in the Crypto Collective is

I encourage not tax advice, not financial advice. I

show them how I've moved my crappy old rubbish

underperforming super into an SMSF and allocate to Bitcoin. For

the average Australian, they could also do that. And

I actually see it as that is the current life raft,

I guess you could say, for the average punter, because saving

up for retirement is not really going

to work. They have to have it in the best performing asset possible.

What would you say to the average Australian on that type of concept, knowing

what you know and in the position that you're in? Is

almost 100% of my superannuation is in a Bitcoin

proxy, as you know. So back when I, in 2021, I

put my entire super fund into MSTR, which

is MicroStrategy, which is a Bitcoin treasury company. So

basically they just buy Bitcoin. And I've

So yeah, if you have superannuation of 500 grand, it's

5 million, you know. And so I won't go into the

exact numbers in my situation, but let's just say it's been a very good move. It's healthy.

But the key to all this, Matthew, is that the

first step in that is a deep understanding of Bitcoin. You

can't just have a cursory understanding of Bitcoin and allocate your entire

super. Super is designed to help people have a safety net.

So start with the biggest thing is Bitcoin,

they say is an intelligence test, but it's actually not. It's

actually an ego test. And a lot of people just want

to be right instead of being rich. They don't look for information, they look for

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And so what I would encourage people to do who are going, ah, it's not even real.

It's got no tangible asset value. or

you're wrong. That is the other possibility

here. And one thing I've learned at the older I get in life, I'm

51 now, is that I'm wrong about most things, right? It's just by how much. When

you're young, you think you know everything. You've

got to come at these things with some humility and go, okay, why

are these really smart people? Michael Saylor is

literally a fucking genius. Why are

people like Michael Saylor? Why are really, really

bright people, people that are much smarter than

me allocating what am I missing here? And

come at it with humility. And if you can get past your ego and then

start to really truly research and try to deeply understand

it, people who do that, I've never

met somebody that's truly done like a hundred hours of

deep research and come away and gone, yes, that's what I thought, it's

a scam. They're like, holy shit, man. Like, wow,

I had no idea. That is universally what happens when

they go and do the right kind of research and listen to the right speakers like Jack Mahler's

and like, you know, anyone in

the space and just listen and go deep and listen to Safedine Amoos

and read his book, The Bitcoin Standard. Universally, people

go, holy shit, I had no idea. And that's when they

have that aha moment. But I agree, Matt, I think it's a life-or-death situation. I

think Australia, it's an, and I think it's urgent. Like, the

other thing people should be doing is compounding inflation and

working out like if anybody believes inflation in Australia is two or

three percent, I've got a bridge to sell you. Come on, like seriously, like

work out what it's going to cost in the future. You are in the fight of

your life if you are still living paycheck to

paycheck. Your money is getting deflated to nothing. The

government is spending like drunken sailors on socialism. They're

going to tax you and tax you and tax you and then they're going to tax you

again. you are in the fight of your life. And

you have this thing called Bitcoin that has been compounding at these kinds of annual

rates. And when you understand why, the simple bet is,

is the world in need of a sound money? And

that's what Bitcoin offers. And right now it makes

up $0.20 out of every $100 of investable assets in

the world, but it's the best performing asset class out of any of them.

There's like eight asset classes. The smallest one is Bitcoin, but

it's beating every single one by a mile. And

it's still only $0.20 out of every $1 at $110,000 as we see it today. It's

still tiny, tiny, tiny. So it's

Adam, we're almost out of time. But I

put to my community, I said, I have got the

amazing Adam Hudson coming onto my podcast. I said, do

you have any questions for him? And of course, I

did have a few. So some interesting questions, though, if you

The first one is, if you were PM, what

were the three things that you would do if you were the Prime Minister of Australia? Just

First of all, I'd have to confess to all my sins because I'd absolutely get

roasted. It's the old saying, if we

all knew each other's sins, we'd laugh at our lack of originality. The

first thing I would do is really I

would start with the basic values of what is

and isn't acceptable in Australia. And I think what

is Australian identity and try to create a clear vision for

what it is. And then I would create protections. And

I'm speaking from a massive degree of ignorance because I'm not

a politician. I don't know what's involved. But I would start there. And

I think the very basis is, are we a Christian country? And

do we represent Christian values? And the big difference

between that, I know this is probably not a Bitcoin subject, but

the difference between the two ideologies that are at war right now is

that there's nowhere in the Christian religion that

makes accommodation for killing in the name of God. And I

think that would be the number one reason that

we need to say, we are a Christian country, these are the Christian values, and

we value family and all those things, and we

are going to legislate to that effect, and we're going

to protect those basic, even if you're not a Christian person, don't believe in God, I

still think Christian values are really important. And

I'd be very, very protective of things that you

know, impact Australian way of life like those, the

mosque in Lakemba putting loudspeakers wanting to do call to prayer over Australian

suburbs, not happening on my watch if I was the PM. You

know, it's just not, it's not here. I like going, I do a lot of

charity work in Muslim countries, I just gave nearly

$400,000 to Muslim recipients. So

I'm not anti-Muslim, I'm just saying I'm anti-extremist,

absolutely. Yeah,

but what I'm saying is we need to, I like hearing call to prayer when I'm

in Indonesia, right? In countries that are Muslims or Middle

East. I love it. It's something deeply spiritual about hearing. I don't want to hear it when I'm

Adam, good answer. Who is the most influential

person that you have ever met? And this is a big one, because you've met so

many people. And you've met a lot of big name

people, too. Who do you think is the most influential person

that you have actually met? And I've got an inkling, but I'm going to let

Well, I've got two answers. I've interviewed very influential people,

like former prime ministers and all of those things.

But personally influential, number

one obviously would be my mum and number two would probably be my friend Rick

Cowley. You know Rick, I've done his

retreat twice now and when I was lost in my life he

was a real... lighthouse

for me, you know, and I went to his retreat and really had that

chance to sort of sit down in silence and

create enough space and peace to hear my little inner voice

speaking to me about where I should go and what I should do next. And sometimes

you just need somebody who can hold space for you

to do that and create some walls and say, all right, let's just

sit and really check back in. So those

two people, personally, but obviously, when you interview people

like John Howard or people like that who've had

real power in their life, they're obviously influential. So I don't know what sort of

But you're right. Actually, I didn't pick that one. Rick Cowley. Yeah, that was

an interesting one. I thought you might have dropped a... I actually thought you were going to say Michael

Yeah, I have. And Rick's Retreats, if you want to look him up, Vision Quest, V-Y-S-I-O-N,

so Vision with a Y. If you're lost or you're looking

for a guide to help you just sort of find your purpose

and path, he's phenomenal. And look, I did meet Michael recently in

Prague. I mean, I think Michael's just

an extraordinary human being. I'm a massive Saylor fan. I've

met Elon as well. I've met Elon's brother, had dinner

with Elon's brother in Boulder, met

Elon in Los Angeles. So I've met some pretty powerful and amazing people

as well. But Saylor, I think, is a really interesting case around Bitcoin

because he's such an engineer. And I think he came

to it, he was on record of shit

talking Bitcoin and then COVID happened and then he went down

the rabbit hole. I really get a sense that Michael's discovered

his religion in Bitcoin. And because

he's an engineer, he's a scientist, an engineer, that's his brain. And

once he's understood the purity of

Bitcoin from an engineering point of view, And

then also the impact that it can have on humanity. Michael

really is there. And I think the biggest there's a saying, you know,

if you if you want to know what a man believes in, look at what he invests in, look

at where his money is. And he's already gone on record saying that

when I die, my Bitcoin is being the keys are being thrown

away. And so all that Bitcoin effectively is going to deflate. and

into the network. So he's cancelling his tokens basically, which

makes everybody else's tokens worth more. Imagine that, right? Governments

actually took money out of the system rather than putting it in. That's a

Well, this might lead to my very last question, Adam, because the question is,

I guess, considering you just said before, you've got no children, et cetera, you're

actually going to create quite a large, substantial sum

of Bitcoin. And the question that came to me is, what

is your mission in life? And maybe that ties into, maybe, a legacy.

Yeah, I think I'm sort of in the process of discovering that,

Matt. Like the last, since turning 50 to now, today,

I think there's been a

step change in my life as I've really let

go of the goal that

I had for 30 years, which is to

have all the stuff. And so there's

been a real step change. And optimizing my life

for freedom has, my life has, ironically,

when I sold everything, restructured my

life to just say I'm going to become a freedom maximist, shave my head, you

know, move to Cyprus, all this. The

stuff that has come into my life, the opportunities that have come into my life, like

I'm leaving, I'm speaking to Tommy Robinson, Jordan Peterson and

Russell Brand this weekend, then I jump on a plane, go to Kuala Lumpur to share the

stage with the co-founder of Apple and speak on stage in

front of, you know, that entire community in

Kuala Lumpur with the Nomad Capitalists. Meeting Michael

Saylor, meeting Adam Back and hanging out with him in Prague and

Paris and all the things that have come into my life. Since I've really

stepped into and embraced what's truly at my core,

the whole world just is opening up to me in ways that's almost comical.

I look at my life sometimes and I just go, How

did I get here? This morning I'm driving to

Monaco and I'm catching up with a friend there and I'm staying in a $30,000 a

week hotel. But I'm from Brown's Plains.

How did I get here? And I got here because I

finally leaned into and owned who

and what I am. And my life, I know I'm an easy target. People

say, well, is he happy? He doesn't. He's on his own now. Like I was married.

I'm not married now. You know, but

we all find. happiness in

different ways and different paths. And my

journey just is different to most people's and I'm still discovering

it, but I do sense that there's something afoot for me

in the future. I don't know what it is, but what

I do know is I'm just going to keep doing and speaking my truth. And

one of the greatest gifts, Matthew, of leaving is I feel this

liberation that I'm no longer afraid And

in Australia, I was always watching what I said,

how I said it, because I had a large footprint

there, commercially, investment-wise. And

now, I don't. And I've paid my taxes, I'm

fair and square, it cost me a lot of money, and they can go fuck

themselves from this point, as far as I'm concerned. I will say

what I feel I want to say. I just realised I was in jail in

so many ways. And now I'm like, no, you don't control my

money. I've paid you what I owe and I

can live life on my own terms and it's an amazing feeling

and my new friends like Tony Yazbek from the Bitcoin Way have been like

guiding lights for me, true freedom maximalists,

like guys who live and breathe this stuff and I've spent time

like Tony, when he was setting me up with his

Bitcoin note, I rang him, I was in Southeast Asia, and I said, I

need to get that note. He goes, well, I've just come from Prague, I've got one left. He says, why

don't you come and see me in Athens? And I went, that's

a good idea, I'll be there tomorrow. So I flew over, and then I spent two

nights with him, and one night we were in the top of this hotel in

Athens, and we're at the best restaurant in Athens, looking straight

at the Acropolis. and we had two

incredible nights just talking about life and liberty and freedom and

what it really, really is and living on the Bitcoin standard

and through him I've met other extraordinary people and now I'm working

with them to a small degree and I'm going over there to Panama and

doing all sorts of stuff, but when you really truly start to

speak your truth and really start to lean into and own

what and who you are, and then you start actually building your life around those

values instead of building a life that looks good to everybody else,

it's funny how the universe aligns and sort of says, hey, here's a

whole lot of shit coming your way now because you've really leaned into

it. And yeah, I just feel freer and happier and

yeah, no house, no car, just a plane ticket and a

That's awesome. I love it. Well, I want to say keep living your truth.

Keep staying the person you are. You know, very exceptionally

inspiring to so many people, not just in Australia, but around the world.

Thank you for giving up your time as well to speak to us today. If

anyone wants to catch up with Adam, he's got an incredible podcast. It's called The

Sat Signal as a part of the Unemployable Media podcast. make

sure you go and check that out. Adam, I'll make sure I leave a link to that in

the show notes as well. And just wish you all the best and hopefully we'll catch

up somewhere soon in a Bitcoin conference or somewhere

around the world. Thanks so much, Adam. My pleasure, Matt.

Thanks for having me on, mate. Appreciate it. All right, take care. Thanks

for tuning in to Crypto Collective. If you've enjoyed this episode, the

best way to show your support is to leave a five-star review on

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more of me at I'm Matthew Fraser on