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Adam Outland: Today we're joined by the one and
only Dan Moore, who's no stranger to listeners

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here on the Action Catalyst, having hosted the
show for the last five years. In addition to his

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duties here, Dan has served as the longtime
President of Southwestern Advantage, a role from

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which he has recently retired, which frees him up
to chat with us today.

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Dan Moore: Hey, Adam. Hey, similar jackets on
today, buddy. From the waist down. I'm wearing gym

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shorts.

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Adam Outland: That's the secret. It's your pant.
Well, Dan, it's super good to see you. Again. It's

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a role reversal for what you're used to, which is
typically the person doing the interviewing on the

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Action Catalyst. And today, we have the
opportunity to grill you with the same questions

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used to grill everybody else with.

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Dan Moore: Well, I'm going to start by saying I'm
totally guilty, so we can save the trial and save

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Adam Outland: Perfect. Perfect. We have a lot to
talk about. And Dan, you and I have have a long

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the cross ex.

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history of working together compared to people
from the outside world were long and today's

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tenure of working with someone in the company is
about three years, we've known each other for

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about 17. I can probably speak for you can say
you've probably known people that you've worked

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with for 25, 30 years, maybe more. So is it safe
to say you keep up with someone?

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Dan Moore: Absolutely true. I actually talked to
the person that got me into the business world two

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weeks ago. So we keep in touch. He interviewed me
in January of 1974, when I was a freshman in

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college. And then also Dave causer, who's the
president of southwestern advantage was in many

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ways, my first mentor, somebody I sought out for
advice at the end of my very first summer. So

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we've been colleagues and friends for nearly just
shy of a half a century. So keeping up with these

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great relationships so important. My own district
sales leader, keep in touch with him, the former

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president of the company, Jerry Hafele, we stay in
regular contact, in addition to people like Henry

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Bedford, the chairman of our board, I've known
Henry since 1978. So we're going to continue to

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stay in contact. I have such respect and
admiration for Henry. So there's no quarter no way

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in the world, I'm gonna lose that contact.

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Adam Outland: Yeah, it's really amazing. I mean,
in any part of history, I think being in one

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organization for half a century. Like to put it
that way, is a feat. I mean, it's it's something

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that's simply not done often. You know, so many
people probably would have questions listening to

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this podcast about that. But what kept you around?

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Dan Moore: I could finally tell you the truth,
Adam.  I never had enough confidence go through

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job interviews.

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Adam Outland: Didn't want to put yourself out
there, right? Just it's safer here to stay. I'm

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sure that's the truth.

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Dan Moore: Well, it's interesting, because I never
even created a resume. When I was in college, I

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was encouraged to do one. So I remember getting
out my old typewriter. People go to the museum and

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see typewriters. I started typing. And I read back
the first word I wrote, which was resume, but I

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misread it and thought I said, resume, so I just
went back to work. Wow. Anyway, in more

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seriousness, I think what made such a difference
in my tenure here is deep, deep conviction to the

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mission that we have. You know, when I got into
the program, as an 18 year old, I was kind of

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shiny on the outside and pretty messed up on the
inside, I was going to Harvard evidently had

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everything in the world going for me. But inside
was a massive insecurities, no real anchors in my

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life. And I desperately needed some path that I
could get on that could restore my self confidence

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and self image, and be around people that would
really bring out the best in me. But when I met my

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student manager, and then my district sales
leader, there's just something about those

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gentlemen and the other student leaders in the
program. And then I get to know the first year is

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a similar striving to be the best that we could
possibly be. And so the program was massively

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important to me that first summer got me really
back on track back feeling good about myself, I

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got back to college and immediately forgot every
lesson of the summer, it took less than 24 hours

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for me to feel like I just lost it all. So I
needed a second dose for sure, which was the next

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summer. And with the guidance of the district
sales leader and other people, I came back and

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began to build a team build an organization began
to really fulfill these habits. So in many ways,

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because the program was such a massive impact on
me, I felt if this could be for me, it could work

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for somebody else. And partly because my own
upbringing was you we should make the world better

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when we leave it than we found it. I said, I could
spend an awful lot of years trying to find the

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best way to help the world. Or I could find that
focus on what I've got going right now and help

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the world from right here. So that deep, deep
conviction to the mission, first of all,

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personally experiencing the benefits second,
seeing so many other people grow, and then having

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the opportunity to develop other skills within the
company. There was there was no need to think

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about doing anything else. That said I was
distracted a fair amount of my 20s as many people

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are by something that looks cooler and better and
more lucrative. But each time with great guidance

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from my most important life advisor That's my wife
Maria. She would constantly say but what drives

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you what moves you what motivates you in the
mornings? What gets you out of bed, what makes you

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feel good about your work, and always came back to
the same thing seeing young people grow and

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develop than before? I'm slightly older them
become leaders in their own right, and live good,

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productive, happy lives. That's what drives me.
And she said, can you accomplish that here? And I

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said, Of course, if you're like I am right now she
said, the why would you even think about going

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into warehouse? If he's like, Well, that really
makes sense to me, honey. So she's always been

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really good at grounding me, telling me what to
deal with asking the right questions so that I

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could come to that conclusion. So I guess it's a
combination of external influences and internal

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conviction. And at some point, I just finally
said, Who am I kidding, this is what I'm supposed

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to be doing. This is what this is what I am meant
to do. And I quit looking right, quit looking left

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and just focus on looking forward.

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Adam Outland: Such a good answer. I think in
passing, we've talked a little bit about you

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growing up in New Mexico, right?

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Dan Moore: That's right, Los Alamos, my hometown.

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Adam Outland: And if I remember right, you said
your dad was a engineer of some type.

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Dan Moore: My dad was a mathematical statistician.
He had a PhD in that subject, and was one of the

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early guys working on computer programming at the
lab. They're at Los Alamos National Laboratory. So

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he started working there in 1953, when a computer
would fill, basically an auditorium or a

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gymnasium, and would run almost as fast as a hand
calculator will run now. So he was very involved

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in that and Los Alamos National Lab at that time
was primarily in nuclear weapons development,

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making weapons of mass destruction provided the
living for our family. And my dad, very principled

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man kind of made the decision after roughly 20
years, that that's not how he wanted his whole

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life to be spent. So he reengineered himself and
found other work still in the public sector, he

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always was a public sector employee, that decision
to leave what was very steady, secure, safe work,

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to follow a principle definitely had an impact on
me. Seattle, Los Alamos is really important part

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of my upbringing, it's there that a friend got me
into the speech and debate team, which was a funny

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story in its own right. Because at the time I was
playing basketball, now you're tall fell out, um,

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I'm not very tall. But I was the same height when
I was 12. So I was a pretty good basketball player

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and, and my buddy said, he had to join the speech
team. And I said, Why don't I want to do that? He

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said, there's two reasons. First of all, there's
twice as many girls as there are guys on the team.

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And second, I think you could learn a lot be good
at it. So I went to the first meeting. And sure

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enough, it was a great experience. So we started
getting involved in competitive speaking and

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debating. The girl I was dating at the time, got
me into choir and got me into theater. And so in

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my career, the benefits of being exposed to public
speaking, and theatrical performance, have had a

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huge, huge impact. So the NBA lost a real star.
But those upbringings experiences in Los Angeles

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were super, super helpful to me, mild speech
teacher, Paul black, probably is gonna listen to

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this episode, he's still living at the age of 90,
something that's incredible. And a number of us

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have been fundraising for renaming part of the
auditorium for Ross and Lola Ramsey, who are our

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drama teachers. So these impacts from way back
have definitely paid forward and hopefully helping

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other people too.

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Adam Outland: So your dad is this mathematician
that's obviously brilliant enough to be hired to

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work on these things. And typically, one doesn't
think deep mathematical labor for a career as

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being correlative to high level communication
skills, which is a stereotype. But I'm thinking in

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my head, how did Dan not end up being Bill Gates
and computer whiz or mathematician versus public

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speaking and personal development? Similar your
dad different than your dad? What was it that

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drove you kind of a more of a, I guess, kind of a
liberal arts direction.

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Dan Moore: You know, gene pools are not circular,
nor are they a uniform depth. So not all those

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mathematical genes passed on to me, they skipped
me and got to my son instead, I couldn't do math,

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but it was kicking and screaming. So it's not not
a natural attribute of my own. But my dad started

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off as a journalism major and had an amazing sense
of humor. He could really spin a story, he could

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write brilliantly. So that part did stick with me
the writing skills, being able to be as good

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storyteller, making people laugh. These are things
that I'm sure got from him. My mother as well, who

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is an artist. So these impacts from our parents
hit us in different ways. So Bill Gates was

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actually a classmate of mine, although we never
met. And I've always admired what he accomplished

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out of his dorm room. At the same time, I was
trying to accomplish something else out of my dorm

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room.

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Adam Outland: How incredible is that? You guys
were the same class.

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Dan Moore: Well he never actually graduated, he
was little bit busy building his small enterprise

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called Microsoft.

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Adam Outland: And you just couldn't manage to
recruit him to our company.

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Dan Moore: I don't think we ever met. I doubt we
ever crossed paths.

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Adam Outland: But had he, it could have even
changed his future too.

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Dan Moore: Might have done well.

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Adam Outland: So you came to Southwestern
Advantage. And over the course of your career, you

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ended up taking over the role eventually as
president and so 2007 to today, what are some ways

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that you feel like you've really shaped the
company for the future or some of the changes that

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you feel like have occurred inside Southwestern
Advantage since your your tenure as President?

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Dan Moore: Well, as president of the company, I
was privileged to work with Henry Bedford. He was

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chairman and CEO, and he was my direct boss for a
number of years in there. And Henry is a real

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visionary, he can take a look at where we are in
the business and forecast something around the

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corner that nobody else can even see to the
corner. And he quickly identified that we need to

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be in the online sphere, as well as selling
hardcover print books. And then we need to have a

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recurring revenue model to benefit everybody, not
only the company, but the students and the

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consumers, because this recurring online revenue
can be updated regularly, so they're getting

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better and better product all the time. And so a
big part of my role is to help facilitate that

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mission. And help make sure that those things
happened in a really good way than I've often

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said. And I believe this, that Henry may have
saved the company by developing this model and

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being willing to invest and put that energy into
it. So I felt like a big part of my role as

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President was to help facilitate the mission. And
that means being a great link between what the

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students do and what the sales leaders do, and
what the overall corporate philosophy and

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structure is about in the old Hippocratic Oath,
the first thing that doctors pledge is do no harm.

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And I became president, the company, one of my
great concerns was, can I even do this thing? This

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is a legacy of more than 100 years. And it was a
really scary thought. So I said, if I just stay

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true to the mission, and stay focused on doing
what's right for young people, I want to do any

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harm. And then I want to make it better by
continuing to amplify the notion of doing the

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right thing. So our values, our focus, doing the
right thing, staying true to our mission had been

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things that I've tried my very, very best to
maintain and help other people see that as well.

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You know, soon after I became President, we had
the major housing crash in 2008 2009. Whole

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country was in recession, it was it was not a fun
time to be in any kind of business. And I remember

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giving a presentation at our great recruiters
seminar theme basically was if there's going to be

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a recession, we're just not going to participate.
And here's why we're not. And it was a lot of our

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background, our history, our theme, and feel like
that may have been a moment when I when I stepped

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up to say, Let's lean into our values, let's lean
into what's always made us successful. Let's don't

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worry about externalities. Let's focus on who we
are, where we've been, and carry that forward.

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Over the years, I've developed a presentation that
I do for young people that I call life one on one,

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and live one on one is basically, if you're going
to choose a paid lifetime partner, how do you go

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about doing that? So through the course of that, I
felt like it was not dictating who to who to

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marry, or who to spend your time with. But instead
learn to ask the right questions. Everybody wants

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to find the answers. But I really think if we ask
the right questions, the answers ultimately reveal

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themselves. So I feel like that's been a
presentation that hopefully is continued to be

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impactful and make a difference. When I've
traveled campuses, both in Europe, and in the US,

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the whole focus is to be a spokesperson of our
mission, which is developing young people. So the

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presentations that I give are generally not at all
about selling generally not at all about

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recruiting, but more about understanding how our
brains work, how our minds work, how our hearts

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work, so that we can pull together a statement for
ourselves, we want to move forward in life. I've

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been blessed with a tremendous team of people in
the office, they'll tell you that I'm definitely

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not the best best manager because I'm generally
not a present manager usually gone someplace. But

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they've carried on just brilliantly making sure
that the backbone and the infrastructure of the

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company continue to grow, regardless of the
obstacles, and I can't give them enough credit.

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For what happened during the pandemic years, when
we had to really retool, when we face the very

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real prospect, we weren't going to be able to sell
anything door to door, we really stepped up to

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innovate in such good ways, and to really figure
out how we could sell if we couldn't go door to

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door for so we were able to do that. But that's
been a permanent change. It's implemented well,

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we've impacted what we've done our company, with
our European people unable to come due to the

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travel ban, we had to get really creative there.
So I was very involved in reopening the UK so that

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they'd have a place that they could knock and sell
books retain that group of people for the future.

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If we believe anything that we try to teach about
overcoming obstacles, developing themselves

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through persevering through getting through every
possible setback, and we'd have been very

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hypocritical, we hadn't found a way to make it
happen. In fact, a big part of our whole motto as

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a company is find a way anybody can find an
excuse, but it takes a personal real character to

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find a way over around under right through any
obstacle that stands in their path. So finding a

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way was such an important theme. So getting
through those adversities is a matter of of

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character. And it's a matter of belief. And it's a
matter of teamwork, because nobody can do that

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stuff alone. There's an old saying that what's
hardest about our businesses, what's best about

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it, don't take it personally be the best person
you can be that there's certain things in life,

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they can control, they should really control those
other things they should influence, but there's a

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huge number of things they just need to accept for
now. It's what we call the CIA fn philosophy,

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control what you can influence it you can accept
what you need to for now, and just roll forward.

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So I guess it's been an activist role in certain
ways. It's been a passing of the baton role in

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other ways, is trying to make sure that our
mission is first and foremost and people's hearts

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and minds and the legacy of the past and the
responsibility feature have always weighed

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strongly on me.

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Adam Outland: Yeah, well, I think you've done a
wonderful job. I think, in particular, what a lot

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of people would say. And just in conversations
with a lot of my peers, when your name comes up,

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there's always a warmth to it, because what you've
done such a wonderful job of is representing a lot

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of those values that we stand for as a company.
And we've made a tremendous impact on gosh,

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probably 50 to 100,000 young people, which is
really incredible. What would you say you hope the

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point is that they remember the principle that
they remember most?

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Dan Moore: I would say that one thing is to
develop a strong set of values. And to live those

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values focused on making the world a little bit
better than then you found it, that it's pretty

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easy to be an accumulator. It's pretty easy to be
a taker, especially if you have a lot of talent

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and you're persuasive. But can a person be an
accumulator, and then a giver at the same time,

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making the world a better place, not just
financially, but in terms of impact. That's always

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what I would encourage people to do. Probably a
second lesson is don't neglect the acres of

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diamonds that are around you. You may be familiar
with that story. For those listeners that don't

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know that that's told by Russell Conwell, who was
the founder of Temple University that a very poor

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hardscrabble farmer in South Africa was finally
fed up with farming, and he said, I want to find

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riches, this is never going to work for me. So he
sold his farm and went on questing for diamonds,

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and ended up panelists and passed away totally
broke, whoever it bought his farm was one day

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working down by the stream and noticed something
shiny in the water and pulled it out. And it was

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an immense, uncut, almost perfectly developed
diamond. And that led to finding other diamonds

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and how the diamonds and other diamonds it became
one of the most prosperous, successful diamond

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mines in the entire world. And so the person that
gave it up literally gave him acres of diamonds

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that were in his backyard in pursuit of something
somewhere else. And I've always felt like if we

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can concentrate on what we have at hand, if a
couple of things are in place, if the opportunity

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is a fair one, if it's honest, if it's decent, if
it's fair, to the people we're surrounded with

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have good values, then why look elsewhere? Let's
develop the acres of diamonds that are right here

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with us. Those would be a couple of lessons have
the right values, and don't spend all your time

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diverting attention and diffusing your energies.
Look around, or the acres of diamonds around you

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right now. Can you bloom where you're planted?
That's a big one.

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Adam Outland: Yeah, that cliche of the pasture is
always greener on the other side is kind of a

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similar story, right?

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Dan Moore: That just reminded me one of my dad's
favorite quotes, he had a sign in his office

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walls. It says the grass is brown on both sides of
the fence.

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Adam Outland: Well, you know, just a quick
transition from this; with you as the host of The

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Action Catalyst, you've learned a lot from having
interviews with other people. And I'm curious, in

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all the interviews that you've had since taking on
the host role in 2018, what's one that really

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stands out to you as most memorable or something
that you gained as an insight?

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Dan Moore: Well, there's been a number of specific
insights. But if you don't mind, I'm gonna try to

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generalize it a little bit. Sure. I developed over
time as Cisco using basically the same five

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questions in my interviews. And one of the
questions is, what do you do when you hit a brick

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wall? And the other one is, what do you do and if
you have some of these cars, so completely

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discouraged, they don't know where to turn. And
it's amazing how similar the responses were.

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Almost everybody, when they hit a brick wall,
said, Well, the first thing you got to do is

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realize you've hit a brick wall, just acknowledge
it. But don't make it a big thing. Just say, Okay,

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so I'm temporarily have a setback, this isn't
going the way I wanted it to. But it doesn't mean

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it can't eventually in a different way. And to be
creative, step back, breathe, and think and go at

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it again. Because nobody ever says when you hit a
brick wall, give up. Never had a single guest say

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that. Every one of them said it's normal part, if
you weren't experiencing those, then you wouldn't

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be doing anything remarkable. So that was
immensely encouraging, that whenever we hit this

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unexpected stuff, giving up is the only option
that makes no sense at all, keeping on does if we

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think use our brains. Yeah, the huge inspiration
that I remember getting was with the question,

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what would you say to a person that is so
discouraged? And they look at the hand they've

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been dealt? They don't have any face cards, let
alone any aces? What would you say to that person.

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And it's amazing how many of them said I would
encourage them to dig into their life and find one

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or two things, they feel great about themselves.
And then second, lean into people around them that

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can remind them of their capabilities. And third,
do something, do something successful. It doesn't

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matter how big it is just do one thing successful,
feel better about yourself and get into motion?

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Matt Ross often says motivation is a myth.
Momentum is what makes the difference. And so when

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people have lost their momentum, getting started
again, can take a lot of effort. But when they do

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that, and just take that next positive step, great
things, in fact, can occur.

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Adam Outland: Really well said and I know we're
almost on time, but I did want to ask you, I guess

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one last thing, which is you also have the
question of asking about pivot points. But I'm

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kind of curious if you've had to isolate maybe one
major pivot point in your professional career, a

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challenging moment, a pivot point that you've
encountered that that made all the difference?

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What do you think it would be?

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Dan Moore: There have been a number of madams From
really early on, realizing the impact that a sales

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manager can have on a young person in the sales
managers have an awesome responsibility to be the

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right kind of leader. Really, really important. So
that's that's a principle there. When I was asked

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to become a district sales manager, and I didn't
think I was qualified or capable of doing it, the

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sales director nodded and said, Yeah, you can do
this, you can do this, we'll help you get through

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it. He also said, it's important to make a long
term commitment. Because somewhere along the line,

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you're going to have a really tough year. And if
you're not committed, you're going to want to

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leave. And I said, Well, I'm never going to have a
tough year, that the very next year, I had my

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worst year ever. So his wisdom came through. Then
when he became president of the company in 1980.

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He asked me if I would join him as sort of a head
of projects didn't really have a title that made

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any sense. I was called manager marketing
development, I still don't know what that even

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means. And he just said, I think you can do this.

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Adam Outland: That's a beautiful one, as a tenured
and seasoned and assaulted beard, individual that

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you are today, what advice might you give to a 20
year 21 year old and more, if you sat down with

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him knowing everything that you know about your
life and all the wisdom that you have now, what

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would be one, one little bit of advice, you might
share your your 21 year old self?

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Dan Moore: I would say put the correct kind of
emotional blinders on. So that we stay focused on

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what's ahead and not get too distracted by
naysayers not get too distracted by alternative

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ways of doing things, because there's always going
to be a million alternatives. And I see so many

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people fritter away their energy pursuing all
those instead of concentrating on the one right in

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front of them. Stay the course stay focused,
again, if the people you work with are honest, if

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the mission is noble, if it's pure, if it has
value to the world, those are not easy things to

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find. In fact, my successor, Dave causer, used to
say, you know, there must be a million ways to

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make a million dollars, but I only know of a
couple of them. And they usually involve building

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value within the company you're in. And so that's
what I'm focused on. So there's there's a lot to

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that just everybody's chasing the next shiny
thing. Instead of saying, wait a minute, what can

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I create out of what I have right here?

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Adam Outland: Yeah, acres of diamonds. Way to
circle back to that point. Well, Dan, it's been a

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pleasure. You've made an incredible impact.
Appreciate your time as the Action Catalyst host

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and appreciate you giving me massive giant shoes
to try and fill with my small feet.

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Dan Moore: Adam, you're very kind. It's fun to
have a role reversal in this process. I appreciate

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it. I'll have PTSD after this thinking about what
I should have said.