>> Jonathan: Ho, ho, ho. Uh, it's December and it's Thursday,

and you are listening to a fresh new episode of

Chasing Birdies. That is if you just hit play,

which you did. Pep. What's going on, bud?

>> RB: How you doing?

>> Jonathan: You look stuffed. Like a turkey, man. You still

recovering from Thanksgiving last week?

>> RB: Can I see it?

>> RB: Yeah, yeah, that was. That was. It was a good one,

though. How was your Thanksgiving?

>> Jonathan: Uh, I didn't get it to Wishbone. Um, I got

stuffed, you know, had. Had a lot of gravy. Had a

lot of, you know. How about you? Was it good?

>> RB: It was great. We had a Turkey bowl in the

neighborhood. Parker's, uh, team won. And, uh, so

they were the super bowl champions. The Turkey

bowl champions. And we came down, we ate around 4

o'. Clock. Just posted up, watched football,

realized I drank a bottle and a half of wine

alone. And, um, might be a problem.

>> Jonathan: So you. You always know when you're. I could

always tell when you're hitting the bottle a

little bit because, um, sometimes your texts, they

come off, you're a little more, like, deep. You

might be a little more sympathetic or

compassionate or then what you normally would be

on a regular, routine basis, day to day. So I'm

always like, you know, man, you're telling me you

love me like that. I know you've been hitting the

bottle, dude, but I love you, too. Yeah, that's

great.

>> RB: Yes, yes. Um, but there is so much to talk about.

I mean, there's not much going on in the golf

world. Um, you know, other.

>> Jonathan: No one watched that.

>> RB: I've talked to a lot of Titleist people lately,

but new driver in June. SM11's coming out, as I

predicted. New, uh, irons in a year and a half.

Um, but as I had mentioned before, I think that I

am going to be transitioning to Titleist irons.

Uh, I might be getting fit for those. And, um,

bravo. Yeah, I'll see if one of the boys will draw

me a 10% discount.

>> Jonathan: Love to see it.

>> RB: Um, but, yeah, it's exciting for all of that. I,

um, think, you know, the big news is obviously,

uh, Lane Kiffin going to lsu, which I think, and

correct me if I'm wrong, I. When this all started,

you know, Brian Kelly got fired, the Florida coach

got fired. I said, you watch this. I said, lane

Kiffin's gonna go to LSU or, uh, Florida. That was

weeks ago. You're right. So.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, you did. You did.

>> RB: What's your take on the whole thing? Do you think

that he should be allowed to coach the bowl with

those guys that he has got fought and battled with

to this point.

>> Jonathan: No, I don't. In fact, if I were. If I were the

team and the coaches leaving, I wouldn't even want

the coach coaching.

>> RB: I would agree with. You know, I would agree.

>> Jonathan: You know, like, it's not that he's not entitled to

make his decision for the betterment of his life,

which he certainly can, but, um, just the way the

portal's working now, the playoff system going on,

it's going to kind of blend the timelines a little

bit with his. His tenure at lsu, so. Nah, I

wouldn't. I. I don't think he should coach.

>> RB: Yeah, I would agree.

>> Jonathan: I mean, I agree.

>> RB: I know that he requested that.

>> Jonathan: He did.

>> RB: Um, and they declined that. That request. But, um,

that'll be interesting. You know, lsu, they've

kind of him hot long the last couple years. Maybe

this takes them to the next. The next step up.

I'll tell you who, uh, I can't stand. Big fan of

Diag. Diego Pavia. I think he's a dog. I think he

battles Heisman fights. Um, he's small. He kind of

got that Johnny Manziel swagger.

>> Jonathan: He does. He does.

>> RB: Um, and. And apparently Johnny Manziel's helping

him in life, which. Talk about blind leading the

blind. Um, man, his brother, what a little smack

off he is, huh?

>> RB: Second, huh.

>> RB: Time he's been arrested this year. On the road,

it's like this family thinks they can do whatever

they want.

>> Jonathan: Because Diego's kicking it at Vandy.

>> RB: Yeah.

>> Jonathan: I mean, and, you know, that's probably synonymous

for a lot of people in.

>> RB: That, like, just, let's live vicariously through

my brother. And I go to every game, I cause a

ruckus. I think I can do whatever I want, and I

get arrested twice.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, that.

>> RB: It.

>> Jonathan: It's kind of funny, actually. It's just kind of.

It makes sense, you know, that guy's brother is

getting arrested twice now.

>> RB: Yeah.

>> Jonathan: Uh, I don't know. Yeah. Uh, I mean, that's

childish. Like, who the hell gets.

>> RB: That's like me getting arrested at a member guest.

>> Jonathan: But, like, if you're getting arrested at a game,

you shouldn't be going to the game. Like, why are

you getting arrested, going to a game, and does it

really matter that much?

>> RB: Like, knowing my brother's like, the star. I need

to act like a normal human being here so I don't

bring any attention. Negative attention to him.

>> Jonathan: Right.

>> RB: Stupid. So, but back to the whole Lane.

>> Jonathan: Kiffin thing, you know, I just don't know. It's

just so hard with today's landscapes of college

football, sports. I mean, basketball. Take

basketball for, for example. Um, Dan Hurley ran

one of the best programs for how many years, the

last couple of years at UConn. And you can see

this year, although UConn is still a contender,

you know his coaching abilities, he. He's got to

fight the nil. Now, you. You look at football, you

look at a team like Texas Tech, who, out of the

blue, has become a dominant team in sports in. In

college football. And several years ago, they were

poop. And so is it because of the players or the

coach or the recruiting aspect? So my point is, I

don't know if Lane Kiffin can, in his capacity as

Lane Kiffin, take LSU to the promised land. And,

God, we know the governor thinks so. Well, I mean,

Bud, we got the governor.

>> RB: Well, I think, uh, yes, because it's LSU and

they're gonna have a ton of nil money. So, yes, I

do think that that is going to obviously benefit

him and help him out. There's, um, no more 18, 19

year olds being recruited out of high school. And.

And it's all within that portal, I guess you what

they call it, uh, to get these guys over. So like

Nick Saban said, when he retired, he had to

recruit him to be there, and he had a group

recruit him to stay. And every question was, how

much money you get.

>> Jonathan: How much money?

>> RB: Yeah, and it's just as I've said before, I feel

like, hey, every kid deserves a chance to

transfer, right? I think one transfer free is fine

when you start playing four years at four

different teams.

>> Jonathan: Yeah.

>> RB: Hey, Bud, how about we go back to when you used to

transfer and you had to sit out a year?

>> Jonathan: Yeah.

>> RB: So you get one free transfer. If you do it again,

you're set now a, uh, year, and you can be 27

years old playing college football, Bud.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, I like it. Living the dream like some of

these guys. Yeah, it was a bad year, or it was a

bad year. It was a bad weekend to be me in my

little comfort zone of sports, because two of my

teams, one being the Steelers, which we'll get

into, and the other one being the West Virginia

Mountaineers, both set records this weekend. And

not good records. I mean, West Virginia hasn't

lost that bad. Since 1889 or some shit like that.

Like, I didn't even know they had football back

then. But it's. The stat came up and it was like,

West Virginia worst loss since 1890. 1889. Like,

and then the Steelers gave up, like, 694 yards of

rushing before the third quarter at acerture

Stadium, the most ever, but in the history of the

stadium.

>> RB: He finally got the ball in the fourth quarter, and

they. In. Aaron Rodgers took a bad snap. It was a

bad snap. They lost 15 yards on it. They had 75

total yards at the start of the fourth quarter.

>> RB: Uh-huh.

>> RB: 75 total yards.

>> Jonathan: You know, it's, um.

>> RB: Again, dude. Ah, that's another one, everybody.

Oh, they're four. Two. They're so good.

>> RB: Blah, blah, blah.

>> RB: The Baltimore Ravens were 1 in 5. 1 and 4. Well,

now he's leading. You had every team on

Thanksgiving do what you needed them to do for you

to win this game. The Buffalo Bills are not the

Buffalo Bills of the last couple of years.

>> Jonathan: No, they're not.

>> RB: You have the highest paid, uh, defense. You're

ranked 18th in the rush defense, and you have the

highest paid defense. I think they're one of the

worst overall defenses in the NFL, easily. And we

got Mike Tomlin. He looks like Steve Urkel, and I

feel bad, like, lost. He's got no clue what's

going on. He has. He's got the headset on, but he

just has nothing in it that. That seems logical.

>> Jonathan: Yeah. Every time there's a play that they get

blown up, he's looking at the jumbotron. You know,

it's. It's kind of funny because I look people

playing at that level, you and I will never be

able to understand what they go through, because

we're just not ever going to be at that level.

Never in our lifetime. And so I can't sit here and

knock the players and say, hey, this person's

terrible. This person terrible. It's above and

beyond that. It's the schematics. It's the

schematics. You look at some of these plays where

these defenders are lined up 10, 15 yards off the

ball. These. The holes that these running backs

are getting. I mean, the defensive lines getting

pounded. Dude, it reminds you probably of being in

college at a bar. I mean, people are getting

pounded left and right. And what's happening.

We're just getting.

>> RB: It's.

>> Jonathan: It's ridiculous. It has to be one of the worst.

And so finally I've recognized that it is. We want

to talk about the collective. Let's talk about the

collective coaching unit and talk about starting

there. Whenever that one person sits at the top

and does not allow anyone else to surpass them,

then the organization stays stagnant. And that's

exactly what's happening. No one's going to come

in that's going to be above him.

>> RB: He'll never let it happen.

>> Jonathan: It'll never happen. And because of that is why

they stay where they are.

>> RB: Uh, in 21 years of him being a head coach, how

many coaches under him have gone on to be a head

coach? Can you answer that for me?

>> RB: That.

>> Jonathan: That's my point.

>> RB: How many?

>> Jonathan: None.

>> RB: Zero. Goose egg.

>> Jonathan: And I'm not saying anything about his. Yeah,

because again, I'm coaching from the couch, dude.

>> RB: I.

>> Jonathan: First off, I am not trying to critique in that

regard, but I. I'm sure he knows football, but,

dude, it's just not working, okay? It's just not

working. And so the only way that it's gonna get

better is if you start from scratch. Start from

zero. How many will Howard in the fucking football

game?

>> RB: How many teams in the NFL, the NHL, mlb, all your

major sports have a coach that have stayed for 21,

22 years, that they are winning championships at

the end of that tenure? They're not.

>> Jonathan: Right?

>> RB: They're not. They're just not. So it might be a

time for change in Pittsburgh. I'm not saying

Tomlin's a bad coach. I'm not. I think that he

would succeed wherever he went. I think his

message. I think his coaching style, I think his

coaching abilities are all gone here still.

>> Jonathan: And you know what? Frankly, you look at a great

coach and Bill Belichick, and now he's a. At, uh,

unc, and he's. He's a, uh, hall of Famer in the

coaching world.

>> RB: Right.

>> Jonathan: And now look at his first year as a college

football coach. Couldn't have gone any worse. I

mean, it could have gone a.

>> RB: Little bit worse, but it. I mean, he's having fun

at home. Oh. I mean, he's got a girl a third of

his age, so. Um, it was. Speaking of Bill

Belichick coming out of unc, uh, today's episode

is with a good friend of mine from Raleigh, North

Carolina. Um, founder of Peter Millar, which

everyone forgot.

>> Jonathan: We had an episode today.

>> RB: What?

>> Jonathan: I thought this was a banner session. No, I just

keep rambling. I'm sorry. But I hear your kids. It

gets me excited. I'm good. Um, good.

>> RB: Founder of Peter Millar, which all of us have a

Peter Millar something in the close. Um, he

founded it. They sold out. He is now the CMO of

Johnny O, which, again, everyone has some kind of

Johnny O in their closet. Uh, the Johnny O brand

is really taking off. It has taken off. It's

growing and he is a lot of. Yeah, that why it is

doing that. Um, he, he. His vision's incredible.

Naughty's, uh, um, put it, the way that he puts

things together are incredible. He is a great

dude. Chris Knott from Johnny O is on our episode

today. And on a sidebar. I'm sorry, guys. I fell

off the map the last 12 minutes of the episode

because my stuff got too hot turned off. And I was

so upset because I had more to talk about with

Naughty that I know about him, and I couldn't get

to it.

>> Jonathan: So what he meant by that was his, his. His system

overheated and cut him off. So for the last 12

minutes, it's just me and Naughty and I'm trying

to give pep sign language. And, uh, he was not

drinking the Kool Aid, so he told me, just go on

without me, bud. So. But it was a great episode

and enough of us yapping over here, so let's get,

uh, let's get this thing rolling here with Chris

Knott on Chasing Birdies. We got a clothing mecca

here on Chasing Birdies for this week's episode.

And, uh, a really phenomenal story behind this

guest. Chris Knott joining us here, currently the

chief merchandising officer with Johnny O, but the

original founder of clothing company you all golf

nuts know, Peter Millar. Chris Knott, man, thanks

for coming on the show today.

>> RB: Oh, thank you guys for having me. I appreciate it.

>> Jonathan: I, you know, I gotta laugh. I laugh at myself

because I just said, Chris Knott, thank you for

coming on the show today. I should have just said

Chris. But anyways, here we are.

>> RB: That's right.

>> RB: I'm. I'm excited for this one. I've known Naughty

for, for years. And, uh, you know, I just had a

conversation with Chris in his office, and we were

just bouncing business ideas off of one another.

And I'm like, man, he would be so good for. For

what we were doing with Chasing Birdies. Like,

this is the definition of chasing birdies. Uh, I

mean, your whole life you've been chasing birdies.

>> RB: Yeah, I need to catch a few more, but, yes, I have

it.

>> Jonathan: So, so are you. I know you're based in Raleigh,

operationally speaking. Is that where you're

originally from, Chris? Or where did you kind of.

>> RB: I mean, I'm about, uh, 25 minutes south of here. A

little small town called Fuqua Varina, which is

now kind of a suburb of Raleigh. But growing up

there, it was about 4,000 people. And I laugh at,

um, you know, we got all these young people to

work here now. We got like 50 people here, Johnny

O and Raleigh now. But the road I lived on in town

inside the city limits was a dirt road in Fuqua

when I grew up. So I'm dating myself. And my dad

was on the volunteer fire department. He was in

charge of spraying the oil on the road to keep the

dust down. Can you imagine that? They're spraying

like oil, dirt road. But it was good because going

up there, you know, it was real. Everybody worked

as a kid. And there's a really cool men's clothing

store that's still there that I got to get my

start in when I was like 14 because I didn't want

to work on the farms. And, um, it's funny, the

great granddaughter of that clothing store is

right behind this wall right here. Her name's

Catherine Ashburn and she won the North South

Junior back in her day played at East Carolina. So

it's kind of funny how we're all kind of sitting

here talking and. And um, I started out working

for her granddad in that small world.

>> RB: That is a wild story.

>> RB: Yeah, it's cool.

>> RB: So is that, that's where your love for, for the

clothing came from, working in, in the store as a

14 year old?

>> RB: Exactly. And my deal was I wasn't a real tough

kid, like, so I didn't want to go work in those

fields, you know, and all the big folks, football

player kids and stuff. So I probably weighed 100

pounds in the ninth grade. And, um, I was like,

man, you know, Long story short, I went and got a

job and started meeting all the sales reps. They

were driving nice cars. They usually had their

golf clubs in the back. And I like a very young

age, like probably when I was like 15, I knew I

wanted to be a clothing sales rep, you know,

because I didn't know anything about manufacturing

at the time. But I like their lifestyle. They got

to go to cool places. They seem like cool people.

And, um, so I was lucky to find something at a

young age I liked. And then I could start shaping

my career around it from there.

>> Jonathan: Well, it's funny because nowadays some sales reps

that I know that are in the clothing business

relative to golf, I just don't even think they

are. They're. They're not selling anything now.

They're just playing golf and hopefully they get a

deal done. Seems that way. I'm being, I'm being,

I'm being silly. But my point is, is that, yeah,

golf for these guys now, it's like hey, let's set

up golf like four day adventure somewhere. I'll

bring a box of clothes, you guys could look at it

and then we'll call it a business deal. Great.

>> RB: Well, you guys, you're younger than me, but like,

you know, this whole influencer thing, it's

massive in golf as you know. Like we just um, we,

we just had our influencers in from all over the

world down to Eagle Point and just watching them

do all their stuff, you know, and um, it was

crazy. And you know these guys and it was really

cool watching how they went about doing it and

then two or three days later watching it on social

media, how they pieced it together. Not much

different, but just a different world today. You

know, like used to the best shirt worn or the best

sweater one. Now it's like how many followers you

have. You know, I mean it's a lot of stuff

driving, especially the online brands. Um, you

know, we're a little more unique in that we do

online, but we have wholesale, we have our own

bricks and mortars. So we're like, when you really

look at, you know, what we do, there's a lot of

different verticals we're in. We're not just

direct to consumer. That would seem kind of easy

at this point. Just direct consumer. But I like

having all these different verticals because, you

know, one's down, the other one could be up. You

know, it's like having a bunch of oil wells.

They're not all pumping the same amount of oil at

the same time, you know.

>> RB: Well, that's, that's Ryan's world, the oil and gas

business. That's what he, he comes, that's his

background.

>> RB: Uh, okay.

>> RB: But you know, I, I do have to say our, our good

for our good friend Chris Marino. Uh, I mean

that's, that's the dude. So we, I'm sure he, he

works really hard. So I don't think he's just

bringing a box of clothes and just playing golf

every day. Every time I talk to him, he's in a

meeting. And this, that our guys work, our.

>> RB: Gals, I mean like we. A guy like Chris Marino,

who's one of my favorite people in the world, uh,

um, you know, he had like the rust belt and it was

our top sales rep and one of the worst territories

in the world. You play golf like what, four or

five months out of the year, you know, so, um, but

I mean look, a guy like him have 175 accounts. You

got to see them every one of Them twice a year,

they're all calling you all the time. It's a busy

job, but you have to be very, um, disciplined. And

so, I mean, it'd be really easy to go play golf

every day and not call people back. And they get

weeded out. Like it's, it's hard to find people to

do what we do because you got to be such a. You

wake up in the morning, you're not going into an

office, you're getting in your car and driving

somewhere. You know, you got to make the

appointment, follow up. So to find people that are

really good at that, it's hard to find them. And

our buddy, Chris Moreno, he's one of them. He's

one of the best I've ever seen, you know, and you

run across guys like, uh, you may know a dozen of

them your whole life, you know.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, Chris. Yeah, he's an awesome dude. In fact,

I got to wear a pair of the shorts that Johnny O

was putting out the pull ups and I really like

them. And I'm working right now, Chris, on my

physical appearance a little bit. You know, my

legs, I kind of have little chicken legs, but I've

been really working on the squats and the leg

extensions to build my quads up a little bit

because those shorts, I swear the inseam was like

five and a half. Now fortunately, I don't wear

underwear, so I didn't have the problem of the

boxers falling out below the legs. But that is a

great product.

>> RB: Yeah. You know, listen, we um, everybody in our

business is always watching for like trends and

you know, I uh, remember John o', Donnell, the

founder of our company, who is a dear friend. He's

awesome guy. He sent me a short about in like 2018

or a pen that had that kind of idea behind it. And

I thought he was crazy as hell because, you know,

I uh, came from a more structured. And I tell you,

we kind of showed it to everybody. Nobody

understood it, we didn't do it. But because he's

like such a different thinker, like thinking out

of the box, like a real creative idea guy, like

the tweener button and stuff like that, where I'm

more like, hey, we gotta take this fabric and put

this zipper on it and this cuff and this trim.

It's been a nice marriage is what I. Is where I'm

headed because sometimes I get so caught up in the

uh, what's the guy really wearing that I'm going

to see at the member guest this weekend versus

let's shoot three Years ahead and see what you

know. And men's is not that crazy like women's,

but. But I give John o' Donnell credit for that,

you know, and even, like, the, um, he's out at

lacc, where you wear long pants, and he was

watching guys wear, like, that Lululemon knit

pant, the, um, ABC pant way before anybody on the

east coast was wearing it. Because back then, guys

weren't wearing Lululemon. And nowhere you play

golf in the summer here do you wear long pants.

Right. But at lacc, you do.

>> RB: Right.

>> RB: That was like, another example. So I think, like,

um, as you look at these ideas, it's a. It's a

collaborative thing that it all kind of comes

together, and then our job is to take it to the

market with a story that makes sense for guys like

you to understand it. You like that short for a

lot of reasons. And. And there's a lot of thought

that went into it before we made it.

>> RB: Yeah. And I do have to ask you because. And I know

the story of it, but a lot of people do not know

the story of it. But you. You founded originally

Peter Millar, and everyone knows what Peter Millar

is. And, um, you started selling cashmere sweaters

out of the trunk of your car. What was that risk

like for you? Uh, trying to start this brand up.

And you're selling cashmere sweaters, which is not

an easy sell. Uh, I will be quite honest with you.

Uh, because it's expensive, uh, if you have them,

you understand why they're so good. Um, but also,

where did the. The. The. The logo name come from?

>> RB: Cool. That's a great question. So, um, when I, uh,

started Peter Bar In 2001, I was a rep for. For

Burberry out of London. Okay. So it's a really

great job. You know, a lot of people call it the

plaid, but it's really a check. They don't like

you calling it a plaid at Burberry. But, um, I

worked for Burberry out of London, selling the

scarves at Top Coach and all that. I worked for

Hickey Freeman, which is a licensed suit and sport

coat maker for Burberry at the time. Then I worked

for Gitman Brothers Shirts out of Pennsylvania

that made all our shirts. I had a really great,

great repping package, and I was doing really

well. I had all the customers in the Southeast

buying it. The reason I'm telling you this, part

of it because I had customers. I had relationships

with stores. Not golf courses, men's stores.

>> RB: So.

>> RB: But what was happening Was these companies were

going more vertical. Like Burberry. Didn't really

want to sell the nice men's store that I grew up

working at, you know, or the store in Memphis.

They wanted to have a store in New York and more

in Dallas. And they wanted to sell Neiman's and

Nordstrom and, you know, and they. They wanted to

make it more exclusive, which they did. So for me,

here I was a rep, the number two guy in the

country at the time, really making a nice living.

The writing was on the wall. I'm not going to have

a job in three years. So I was a 1099 employee.

Because I worked for all three of those companies.

I wasn't getting benefits or insurance from any of

them. And this is. Not many people know this

story, but my best friend, a guy named Philip King

from Fredericksburg, Virginia, I met at East

Carolina. He had done a mortgage for a guy that

had just moved to Virginia from Mauritius. And the

guy and my buddy Philip hit it off. And the guy

gave Philip a cashmere sweater as a gift for doing

his mortgage. Nobody really knows his story. And

Philip said, man, I met this guy, blah, blah,

blah. And let me show you this sweater. I said,

well, have him send me one. Well, this guy had

moved to that area. Cause Joe Banks was a big

customer of theirs. And he moved there. They're

based in Baltimore, and he was trying to get their

dress shirt business and sweater business. Long

story short, I called the guy. I'm like, what does

this sweater cost to make? You know? And he goes,

well, I could have them landed in the US for like

50 bucks. I'm like, wow. I never was a sourcing

guy. I was always a sales and design. I said,

really? I said, I can sell those for 98 bucks. You

know, they'll end up being 198 retail. So that's

how it started. There was no business plan. I

just. I had customers. I said, I can sell these to

my customers. So I put together a V neck and a

cable crew and maybe a vest and a color card. And

I went out and sold, um, 4,800 sweaters, right? Me

and some buddies of mine that were sales reps.

Well, it came in, it was like, um, 400 grand worth

of business. Well, those. That first season, like,

you know, there's a long story about it, but when

it was all said and done that first season, I

netted $200,000. I mean, I was like, this is

unbelievable. I got. The light bulb went off. It's

like I got other people selling My stuff that I'm

making money on, you know, not just what I sell.

So I still was working for Burberry. I was a 1099

employee. And then it just kind of kept going up

and up. It wasn't like a gun to my head. I got to

do this because I was financing it out of my

checking account. And I, uh, brought some guys in

to be my partners up in Bristol, Tennessee,

because I needed the production and back office.

And those guys now own Turtleson. They're great

guys. Um, Greg Oakley and Chet Sikorsky. We're

still great friends. And I said, look, I'll go

design it, you know, get it sold. I need y' all to

do all the rest. And then, you know, this rep in

California said, hey, we need knit shirts now. You

know, and it's a great story you could do a movie

about. Then you just kind of started adding

categories, right? And then it became a real deal,

so I had to quit my real job. They actually called

me and said, hey, make a choice. You know, I had

an anxiety attack for about. I had a one year old.

I just remodeled the house. About 100 grand over

budget. It was pretty sticky.

>> RB: So.

>> RB: But, you know, the fear of it not working is what

made it work for me, you know, like the, um. And

I'll show you a picture. But my mom, who's passed

away since, but she was a local antique dealer. A

little mom and pop, nothing fancy. And she would

get these antique things from different people

that sold her stuff. And there's a lawn ball, L,

E, W, N ball. And it's a ball that's not

completely round. I'll show you a picture of it.

And over. Like in the uk, there's a game where

they roll this thing around. It's like bocce ball,

but they're about this big. And the guy's name on

it was Peter Millar. And over there, they

pronounce it Miller. So, anyway, I'll show you a

picture. So I had this ball, and I'd use it as a

prop, like, at my Burberry trade shows and stuff.

You know, it'd just be like. Because it looked

kind of English or whatever. So this ball right

here, which I still have, is, um, my mom gave me.

And I thought, hey, I got this little silly wooden

1930s ball. Why don't I name this cashmere sweater

company after that? At the time, it's gonna be a

cashmere sweater company. Well, the funny thing

about it is over in the uk, and, you know, you

think of the Best sweaters in the world. Coming

out of Ireland places. There's not a single

cashmere goat over there. They're all out, uh, in

Asia and the Himalayan mountains and all that.

Mongolia. But the, uh, Scottish invented the way

to sort cashmere the best. So that's why all those

really nice cashmere sweaters you see that were

made in Scotland were coming from Scotland because

they figured out how to take the yarn and spin it

and sort it the best way. So anyway, that's kind

of the background of how it started. And then, you

know, one season, the next season you do a million

two, then to. And then I realized at a young age

that you like the stuff I'm not good at, I don't

try to do, you know, so I'm a sales guy, product

guy, marketing guy, you know, that kind of. That's

how my brain works. I mean, I understand numbers,

but I never wanted to be in front of a spreadsheet

all day. I get bored to death. You know, I'd m

rather be in the car driving than selling. So as

the company grew, you know, I wasn't afraid to

bring in partners. That new stuff better than I

knew. And I don't regret it at all. It worked out

great. We're not partners anymore, but I had

enough sense to know there's somebody over here

that's a better CEO than I would ever be, you

know, And I'm still not a CEO. Um, I don't want to

be a CEO. I'm a product sales idea guy. So, long

story short, I think that's the lesson learned

here. Don't be afraid to bring somebody on your

team that can do something better than you, even

if you have to give up some control to do it. You

know, And I would preach that to every business

out there.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, that's such a remarkable story. I, uh, I

mean, it is. That is just far out. Just seeing how

that kind of developed. And here's the thing that

I picked up most on that, Chris, that I probably

sometimes say with, which might not be really

valid at certain times, but you didn't have a

business plan. I think oftentimes people, when

they're starting a business, now granted, it might

be for the bank or financing in that regard, but

you can't. At the point of the beginning, you can

outline in your mind, maybe on paper, but to have

a business plan from start to finish, it changes

on the regular. And oftentimes it's just about

putting things in motion and then pivoting from

there. You know what I Mean, which is kind of what

happened.

>> RB: I mean, look, I got a fashion merchandising degree

because the only thing I could pass in college to

get out of school, these throwing. And it served

me well. But you know, a lot of these kids, you

know, they come out and they, they're so educated

and it's great. They put an unbelievable business

plan together, but they can't do, they can't get

in a minivan with three hubcaps and go sell

cashmere sweaters, you know. And so, you know, if

you watch Shark Tank or any of this stuff, sooner

or later something's got to get sold, right? You

don't need anything unless something's being sold.

So, you know, I try to preach that to all these

people that call me about starting a business and

this and that, because once you go out and have

that businessman, you take everybody's money. Now

you got, now they're all your bosses, right? And

they're up your ass and blah, blah, blah. But you

know, like, the reason I'm sitting here at Johnny

O, you know, we were fortunate to sell Peter Bl

Art a couple of times. But the reason I'm here is

because we love Johnny O's logo and what it. And

the branding of it back when it was about a two

and a half million dollar company. So Peter Miller

tried to buy Johnny, nobody knows that. And John

o' Donnell and his right hand man, a guy named

Quinn Veasy, they came to visited us at uh, Peter

Millar and we thought, man, they got this. We were

watching Vineyard Vines and all these brands blow

up and we're like, man, we, this America likes

logos again. You know, we're doing it the hard

way. Here's this 22 Miller cashmere and super 100

suits and all this stuff. So we thought we could,

we could buy it and run it simultaneously and

build like this kind of precious, more retaily,

you know, higher end golf line and have like some

of that right below it, more casual Johnny O type

stuff. But anyway, we, we didn't offer them enough

money. They turned it down, so. And they should

have. But at the end of the day, what Johnny had

from the beginning and then it just kind of went

away and we didn't talk anymore. We'd see John at

the trade shows. We stayed friendly. But when I

retired after we sold it the second time, um, I

knew, you know, I always tell people, why'd you

leave? Because it kind of things can outgrow you.

The company is. My old company is doing great. One

of the Best companies in the world. But you just

kind of know when you need to uh, get up from the

table and let the next group do what they do. So

I've never looked back and regretted that. But

when Johnny O called me and I saw it's like this

little $10 million business, but I had this great

brand and I'd been sitting on the sidelines for a

year and a half on non compete, I was like, man, I

wanted to do that five years ago. And the world

had gotten a little less precious. And I thought,

you know, uh, this whole casual thing, it was

before COVID the world had gotten a little more

casual. You know, when I came back into the

business, I did kind of get out for a year and a

half. I kept my own up. I was doing real estate

and other stuff. But when I got back, like a brand

like Faraday had really come onto the scene. And

it's a great brand, I love what they do. And it

was really casual. And it's like all of a sudden

the world was changing a little bit. That year and

a half I left, I thought things are gotten even a

little more casual. You know, look at this brand

like that, doing great. And Johnny O was west

coast and it was a little more SoCal and I was

like, this looks fun, you know. So, um, long story

short, we opened up, we rented a little office and

like one of those little regas offices about

450ft. You know, it's like a hotel room size with

a shared computer. And a guy I worked with before

had already left and came to Johnny O. And um,

long story short, we started designing product in

that little office and you know, this year we'll

do around $200 million in revenue. And it's all

really great business. Wow. And when I exited

Peter Moore, which I thought was the greatest

thing in the world, we were doing about 100

million. So it's been fun, I guess for me. I'm

probably the luckiest guy in the world to been

associated with two great brands. And it's kind of

been a little more fun even probably the second

time because you have all the pressure on you that

like, if it fails, it's on me, you know. So, um,

it's been, I've been lucky like to done what I've

done twice and been involved with two great

brands. I feel like the luckiest guy in the world.

>> RB: Well, also, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but

Peter Millar, you were uh, spending your own

money, right?

>> RB: It's a little different for A long time. Yeah.

>> RB: When you're doing that.

>> RB: Yeah. A jar of coins and I think I had about

twelve hundred dollars in there. And I was like

that close to taking them to the bank and running

them through or taking them to one of those places

where they could count them because I had

forgotten. But a, um, hang tag price and some

garments I'd bought, I had a big hang tag bill I

had to pay. Yes.

>> Jonathan: So when you, when you started Peter Millar, was it

more starting out as men's luxury apparel, dress

wear that pivoted into golf, or is it now or. Or

was it your intention to be a golf brand that

pivoted into men's dresswear? I mean, when did

that shift over to golf started?

>> RB: Well, this is a great story and all these podcasts

I've ever done, nobody's really asked that

question. We were 100% retail men's specialty

stores, because that's where my connections were.

But I had, you know, over the years, just like in

your business, you know, people like you work with

a guy that here or there, a gal or whatever. And I

had good relationships with buddies of mine that

worked for other companies. I hired some guys from

Bobby Jones. They didn't make cashmere sweaters at

the time, and they were friends of mine. And I

hired a couple of those guys to rep for me. Paid

them a good commission and they did it on the

side. So because they were selling retail and

golf, they kind of placed it in the golf for me.

Those reps, I wasn't really calling on that. So

those partners of mine at Eternals, and now we.

They were going to go down to the PGA show with

another brand they had that. It kind of. They

decided not to go forward with at the time. But

they'd already paid for the PGA show. They'd

already had a booth. They said, hey, do you mind

if we take this down there and just see what

happens? When I was in New York slinging sweaters

and had a hotel room, I'd run over the Burberry

work account, run back to the Warwick Hotel, work

an account, you know, I mean, working. Really

working your ass off, to be honest with you, you

know, and then all night, you know, in China, da,

da, da. All night long. Long story short, they

called me from the PGA show and we had like 30

colors in cashmere sweaters. They were really nice

sweaters. And they were also affordable. You're

not gonna believe. Sea island just came by, so and

so just came by, you know, um, Buddy, Annapolis

from the Medalist just came by, you know, um, um,

you know, all the right people. Gene Matori from

Saucon Valley is just in here. And all these guys

end up being great customers. They're great

friends. Uh, Marty Hackle from Golf Digest wants

to do an interview. So it's like that aha moment.

We had something at that show that just called

everybody's attention. And I wasn't even gonna do

the show at the PGA show. Then we were like in the

golf business at that point. And um, and we're

like, it's like that UPS commercial. You see where

the orders keeping. They were like, holy. We, we

got something here. And it's a crayon. It could be

a movie. I mean it's like Uber or anything else

the way it happened. And even some of our

competitors and like our competitors and a guy

that came on to work with us who was a big branded

guy, they started noticing that. Then, then what

happens is people that work for other companies

that may not like their commute or may think the

company's too big or, or the company doesn't care

about go. Then they start calling, wanting to

figure out how can we work together, you know,

and, and, and then that's how things happen.

>> Jonathan: Yeah.

>> RB: One of my favorite human beings in the world,

which you introduced me to him, uh, is still at

Peter Millar. But Todd Martin is one of my

favorite human beings. He is so funny. Such a

genuine good guy. He has a story too. Him and his

dad started Fairway and Green and they sold that

out. And, and then that's whenever he went to mar.

And it's like, I don't think people realize how

that tight knit that community is.

>> RB: It's a big, it's a very fraternal business.

Everybody's connected. And look, Todd Martin is,

he was the dean of the golf business, like Fairway

and Green. Owned that business back then. Still a

great company, but his father sold it. I'll never

forget walking by their booth and they kind of

become part of a bigger company. You know, it

happens to all of us. And I looked in there and I

could see Todd was just sitting that meeting at

the PGA show. And I could just tell he didn't look

happy. For whatever reason, I'm not saying why or

whatever. We were up in Chicago having one of

these white board meetings with our management

team and the private equity guys that came in and

bought out Seattle from us. And um, long story

short, they're like, what can we do strategically?

We were talking about airport retail or Internet.

Wasn't even big Then. And I remember saying, let's

go hire Todd Martin. Let's go hire Todd Martin.

Cause he's the one thing standing in the way of us

from getting somebody else's business right now,

you know. And, um, it was like, I think, you know,

the rest is history for Todd. I mean, he lives out

in Arizona. He does a great job for Peter Millard.

Everybody still loves him. But there were

accounts, and I give Todd Martin credit for this.

There were accounts that were not going to ever

buy Peter Millar as long as Todd Martin was still

at the company him and his dad founded. And I

respected that. They would come to a Pro Am at Sea

island that was sponsored by Peter Millar, and

they would wear his fairway and green, which is

still a great brand. They would wear their big

fairway and green shirts. And I thought, that's

ballsy, but that's cool as could be. And I

respected it. Like, K. Poppy Valley was one of the

account. But I. I so respected it that they had

that much passion for it. And that just shows you

what a fraternal business we're in, right? And,

um, I still talk to Todd a lot. Um, he's still

funny as ever, and still one of the best. He's so

funny I've ever met, you know, awesome guy.

>> Jonathan: I love the, um, the business side of this story,

man, because there's so many parallels. I'm not

comparing your story to mine personally, but in.

In business in general, with a lot of entrepreneur

preneurs when they're starting off and getting

through the adversity, staying committed to their

vision, what they want to try to achieve. And a

close friend of mine who has since passed away,

Joe Hardy, he founded 84 Lumber back in 1956,

which was the large. It still is the largest

privately owned lumber company in America. Maggie

has it now. But Joe, uh, was a dear friend of

mine. Kind of took me under his wing. So a lot of

information, influence on my life. But I remember

he was all. He would always tell me whenever his

cash and carry lumber business was growing. Uh,

starting in 1956, he had stores opening up. And he

said he would sit there and they would have bills

coming in from all these vendors. And he said we

didn't have any money to pay them. So he said I

would tell my secretary, throw them up in the air,

and whatever ones landed face up, those are the

ones we'd pay this week. And he got a kick out of

that. But, uh, you know, kind of similar to your,

you know, with all your verticals. Going on and

this, that and the other. Yeah, you just kind of.

They always say when you. When you're an

entrepreneur, you jump and you figure out on the

way down how you're going to land. And that's so

true.

>> RB: I've never heard that. But that's. Look, I.

Anybody knows me, I tell you, that's me. I mean,

like, I've, um. I don't act like I'm the CEO. I

don't act like I could run marketing. Like, I'm

just telling you, I stay in the lane. I know. And

if I don't know it, like, we launched Ladies

recently, and they said, hey, do you want to do

it? I said, no, that's not what I know. Like, I

know fabrics, I know factories. But, like, I'm not

going to be able to sit here and tell you what

women want to wear because I'm a menswear guy now.

We got people that do it. That's been successful.

It's tougher business than men. But I'm not even

going to act like I know how to do that, because

it's a different animal, you know? And I think,

like, by being able to wear them, everything I've

got on today, down to my underwear and socks, we

made. But everything's good. Like this footy. I've

got on the best footy I've ever made, because I

figured out 10 things about all the other footies

I didn't like, and then I figured out why they

fall down and figure out how to make them and all

that stuff. So, you know, the pockets on these

five pockets are deep enough because I can't stand

to Stick your hand in the pocket or, you know, the

back pockets aren't too low. And, you know, all of

that stuff that when you buy a product that we've

touched, all that stuff you like about it. We got

three people right here beside me that do nothing

but fit. We wear shirts off in here every day,

trying this stuff on. I think where brands go

wrong is they. They get away from that. And, like,

you know, if a collar, you know, we got in a

beautiful Laura Piana, uh, vest yesterday.

Beautiful storm system. Well, the collar right

here needs to be rounded a little bit. You know,

it's just a little too sharp. It kind of hits you

on the chin. We fixed it. So, to me, as long as

you like doing all that stuff and you love it,

you'll probably be successful. As long as you've

got all the right people behind you to count all

the money and keep your finances in order and keep

your execution. I mean, you think about the golf

business. Every hat you see, logo or shirt, that

thing comes in, somebody has to unfold that shirt,

put the right colors on it, get the right logo,

uh, the right position, steam it, refold it and

ship it. That is a complicated business.

>> Jonathan: Mhm.

>> RB: But you got to figure out how to do it and have

the systems and the people to do it, or you go out

of business. You know, it's very hard to execute

that. But that's a lot of great jobs for Americans

to do it because it's all done here.

>> RB: Well, I was sitting in your office a few months

ago at Johnny O in Raleigh, and it's such a cool

office. It's just bright, you know, vibrant. The

showroom's cool. But what I thought was very

interesting and people don't understand in the

clothing business is I walked back to where your

girls were designing things. And I mean, think

about that. It's probably three, four months ago.

And I said, oh, what are you guys working on?

Like, I was their boss or something. I mean, like,

I had no. Here they're designing things for fall

of 26. And it's like we're a year and a half out

and you're already game planning this. And my big

question is, how do you pick the color. Swatches

for. For fall of 20? Like, how do you guys get to.

>> Jonathan: That point, the influences for that far away?

>> RB: Right. You know, like women, like, uh, they may go

to a fabric show and Italy and Pantone will say,

these are the colors. And every woman designer

runs to it and, and you know, like these color

services. But listen, if you look in most men's

closet, especially in what I call, like updated

kind of traditional styling, you know, not high

fashion. It's, it's, it's very similar colors. We

wear like five shades of blues, of black, some,

you know, uh, not, you know, some coral, a little

bit of gray. It just. Now you got to keep changing

those colors and making them wearable because your

buyers and your sales reps, part of them, the

men's part, is easier than the women's on that.

The colors aren't the problem. The hardest part is

figuring out these exploded prints going to keep

going. How, you know, because you're doing them a

year and a half ahead, they're just hitting the

stores. They could die that year, you know, and

then you got your whole line laid out. You know

what I mean? So we're always looking at sales

numbers. What's pre booking? Because we're not

just direct to consumer. So our buddy Chris

Marino's out there right now selling next year.

All those orders roll into a, you know, order

entry system, and we can go, you know, take all

these swatches, you know, that we're always with,

and be like, hey, we've sold 620 of this guy, but

we sold 900 of this already. This tighter print or

woven, you know, it may be where it's trending

because look at the bookings across these colors.

So we do have, like, swimsuits. We're selling a

little more tighter prints now than exploded, you

know, and you're gonna see that in golf shirts

now. All the fun lines that, you know, all over

social media, I've been selling a lot of wild, big

stuff starting to come down a little bit now.

Stripes are starting to come back because

everybody's closet's kind of getting full of it,

right? You know, like, it's, um, hey, I got enough

fun, wild prints. I need to go buy some stripes

now. Because I've been buying those at every golf,

cool golf place I've been going. But I think the

biggest thing in golf right now that I'm seeing,

because everybody has figured out how to make good

fabric stuff. The Internet and everything. Um, I

think the embellishment part of it, you know,

like, especially with the hat companies, who's

figuring out how to do the cool new

embellishments? You know, logo treatments and

things like that I think are game changing right

now in the industry. You know, you're going to see

more of that all.

>> RB: It's funny to see how the trends work even in my

industry, in the jewelry industry. You know, I was

at a jewelry show last night, private jewelry

show, and I was just. We set all the jewelry out

and I'm looking around and I'm like, man, yellow

gold was 20 years ago, and now I'm looking at 80

of everything that we're putting out is yellow

gold. And it's like it's coming back, right?

Marquee diamonds, they're coming back. You know,

the grandmothers were wearing marquee diamonds.

Now they're the cool thing to have again. And it's

just wild to see all this trend coming back and

circulating back.

>> Jonathan: Is that the show where you were saying you had to

do toe ring model? You were the toe ring model?

>> RB: Yeah, yeah, I had to put. Yeah, uh, me and Rock

had a mediate. Put some toe rings on anything for

a sale. Right.

>> RB: But you know, you.

>> Jonathan: You see that, you do it.

>> RB: Yeah, you see that, like, we love My wife and I

love, you know, fixing up houses and rental

property. Like, you know, like all that with

fixturing now and bathroom fixtures and knobs, all

that stuff goes in a cycle, right? And um, and

you're seeing it now, you know, finishes and

things like that are, uh, it all kind of goes in a

cycle. But then all of a sudden your eye, you look

at it and it's like, wow, that looks good. You

know, and um, and we, I just, like sometimes you

just get tired of looking at something and you

know, it's over, you know, like it's um. Yeah, no,

it's um. The thing that I always say, the, you

know, I was down in West Palm last week, we just

opened a store there, you know, and down that area

you got every high end European brand there is

where it's cars, jewelry, clothing, you know, Palm

beach has got it all, boats, everything. So I go

in those stores and, and really what I come out

with, it's, it's, it's not like the cashmere is

better in the cuccinella sweater than the cashmere

over here. That's, you know, in a very nice

sweater. It's the details. And you know, they,

they, they're using the right perfect finish on

the leather, on the pull. That's probably from

Tuscany, you know, that's. And it's the same way

in the jewelry business, you know, um, what makes

that Cartier love bracelet, what it is, it's the

box and the packaging and the uh, you know, it's

like I told my daughter, hey, if you're going to

buy something like that, go to the store and buy

it. Don't get it secondhand because it's not,

you're not going to love it. As much like you want

to go experience buying that, that's part of why

you're doing it. Right? So that's, that to me is

like my new, new light bulb that's gone off. And

while we're building these Johnny O stores, like,

I want somebody to walk in and be like, this is

the world of Johnny O right here. Wow. You know,

this is super cool. Um, and I didn't know you did

these soft sport coats. Oh, I didn't know you had

this many shoes. So that's, that's why we are kind

of opening these stores, because of that wow

factor, you know? Yeah.

>> Jonathan: And you know, the thing about the clothing biz is

as you hit on earlier, you know, mentioning the

bathroom remodels and the clothing, I mean it is a

revolving sphere. Like you have to be ahead of the

game with respect to trends and what you're

putting out. And I. And that takes a lot of work

because a. You can't really see into the future.

You know, you're basing things off numbers or what

people are ordering trends in that regard. But you

know, to stay competitive in this world, because

as we mentioned earlier with social media is now

influencers. Other ways to buy, buy your product.

You have to be the way. You have to differentiate.

And that takes ingenuity, you know, and.

>> RB: Staying on top of takes different eyeballs on

things. And like, um, there's a few brands out

there, you know, that you see like the Nikes of

the world and the Adidas, like, they didn't get to

be these unbelievable brands by just making

basketball shoes and putting them on. You know,

like, if you look at the collegiate and NHL and

NFL licensing business, you know, a lot of people

get turned on to a brand that way. You know, like,

they may not be a golfer. Like we are in Johnny o'

Goff's shirt and Dunes, whatever. So there's

different ways to get turned on to brands. And

then if you kind of love a brand, you know, we

have a term that is an old term we've always used

called sheriff closet. Like, I wanna. I want you

to go in your closet, be like, wow, there's a

Johnny O. Sport coat, there's a woven shirt,

there's some pants and shoes. Oh, here's that

footy he was telling me about. Here's some

sweaters. I don't. Nobody's closet is gonna be all

100 of anything. But we like to have share of your

closet for sure.

>> Jonathan: And you do. Well, I can attest to that. Is there

anything that you guys are pushing or working on

that, um, you know, might be a little bit out of

the ordinary for the brand or anything new in that

regard of a piece?

>> RB: I'll tell you something, that's a great question.

You have some good questions here. Um, we were

sitting around like, we're always talking about

what's a new category that makes sense for our

brand. And. And like something I love, you know,

Uh, I. You can never wear all the outerwear you

have. You never wear all the shoes you have, you

can never wear all the sunglasses you have. But

for me, I'm a kind of a sunglass. I'm a little bit

of a nut about it because I know what I want them

to do and I know how I want them to perform. And I

had this idea, like, you know, you got all Your

nice, beautiful Oliver Peoples. You're cool. Go to

dinner, go out to lunch, wear them on your boat.

You know, they don't work on the golf course. Um,

and then you've got like your kind of athletic

things that look kind of cheesy but don't work at

dockside after you play golf, you'll gonna have a,

you know, a painkiller at the dockside to have a

drink in them. So we just came up and launched

them and they've been very successful of like

really great sunglasses that are lightweight

because you're not getting any sunglass fatigue

when they're heavy. They've got Zeiss lenses,

which are the best lenses you can buy, and

sunglasses. You put a lot of money into the lens.

They're very lightweight. They got hinges so they,

you know, they don't bend and stretch out. They've

got the little rubberized here and they got the

rubberized nose. But they look like really cool

Italian sunglasses. Well, they're great. You put

them on your head, they don't fall off. You know,

you wear them when you play golf. And what people

don't realize if you're on the water, polarized is

what you want with reflection. But if you're

playing golf or driving, you don't want. So we

kind of introduce non polarized and polarized.

They're like 138 retail. People love them. They're

like, why hadn't anybody ever done this before?

And if you lose them, you don't feel like you got

to go to the bank and take out a loan, buy another

pair. So to me, that was a cool thing to start.

And because there's some cool glasses out there,

kind of look like that, but they got crappy lenses

in them. You know, like if you're my age and you

put on a glass that's got a crappy lens, you can't

even, you can't see that. You can't see out of

them. So that was something we launched and it's a

great event gift at memory guests and things

because you don't have to deal with sizes and

people. And we build up exactly fan for them to

sit on the counter. So that's one of those ideas

we did. We did a really cool wireless charger.

Like another great gift for like throw it in a bag

and a member guest. We all are charging our

phones, our watches. This charger's got three

different plugs on it. It's got Johnny O. I give

them out, the gifts to my daughter and her

friends. It's like the greatest gift ever. You

know, like, very practical.

>> Jonathan: Oh, yeah. I love it because that's an. Like you

said on the member guest side of thing, that is an

easy gift just to give away because you don't got

to worry about sizing. And I, uh, everybody wears

sunglasses. I mean, I wear sunglasses. I wear Ray

Bans when I play golf. And like you said, I do not

wear polarized shades at all. Lenses. Not. Not

polarized. It's too hard to play with polarized

lenses.

>> RB: Yeah, well, it's not what you want to learn. I

didn't know that until the lens expert guy came

here and taught me that. But I was like, wow,

that's something to talk about. But I tell you,

the, um, you know, we did a thing, uh, I was down

playing golf in Florida, and Jonathan Nozgay with

Kelly Miller. We got caught in this massive

rainstorm, like the end of April, one day at

Seminole. And you, you know, you're always trying

to keep your bag as light as possible if you're.

If you got a caddy or if you're walking. And it

hit me. I was like, you got no chance of having

rain gear in your bag ever with a caddy around. So

we came up with this. I, uh, went out and found

the most lightest, waterproof woven fabric you

could buy. We do everything in grams per square

meter. This stuff's like 60 million grams per

square meter where most rain gear is like 205. And

we made this rain shirt that folds up and it's

about the size of your phone. And we called it the

Stealth stowable. And, uh, the deal is it's always

in your bag. You're never caught without it,

because rain gear is no good in your locker. It's

no good in your car, you know, and especially

these courses where you're walking, walk with

caddies. You never have it in the cart because you

don't have a cart. So that's a cool idea. Like,

that's, like, one of my favorite things I've ever

designed. I should have quite saved it for my next

company. But, um, I'm just kidding. But. But,

like, the story is, keep the damn thing in your

bag, and, you know, you'd be in summer or whenever

a rainstorm comes down, you throw that thing on.

When it's done, shake it off and put it back in

your bag, and it weighs.

>> Jonathan: You're done. Yeah.

>> RB: Six ounces, you know, you're safe. That's kind of

cool idea.

>> Jonathan: We see it all the time, man. We're on a course,

and we don't have the, uh, the gear in the bag,

and next thing you know, we're soaking wet. It

happens. So, people, you got to pack the rain

gear, leave it in the bag.

>> RB: Something I've learned and this episode tidbit

cost. Dig a little deeper. But, like, even like an

item like that, we've got a great salesforce that

can go out and shout it out wholesale. But you

gotta have a great bargain team that can take that

idea and make it real direct to consumer also. So

I just wanted to say that, and that's something

I've learned in the last year. We really got a

great marketing guy that came here from Callaway,

but he comes to us with like, hey, what are we

going to market it? Which actually drives us to

better product ideas. So it kind of works both

ways. And I just wanted to say that. And that's

very important today, no matter what you're

selling.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, no, it is, it is. And having the right

people around you, you know, always makes. Yeah,

it's what. What's needed. That's a good point. Um,

well, listen, Chris, it was awesome having the

time here to connect with you. Um, I know we lost

our buddy Pep here to some technical difficulties,

but I'm, I'm. I'm well versed in our show. We've

been doing it for four and a half years, so I know

what's coming up next. And what's coming up next

is the tap in segment presented by betonardi

golf.com check them out at, uh, betnardi.com and

get you a putter or get you a wedge nowadays and

maybe some irons. But, Chris, I'm gonna ask you

three or four questions that demand your response.

Just a deeper diver. Look into Chris not outside

of golf. So the first question to that note is,

what does Chris not like to do outside of work?

>> RB: Golf, man, I like, um, I like design stuff. Like,

um, my wife and I were just down a little condo we

have in West Palm, and we did some work on it this

year. And I really enjoy that process. Like, um,

you know, I do a little bit of rental real estate

and stuff, so I'm always looking for ideas how to

make that type thing look better, um, you know,

feel better. And I'm not like in the cars or I'm

not really a watch guy. I'm wearing a tire Timex

here. Um, I've got all that stuff, but I'm really

more into design ideas. And how can you take

something and keep it from being Dated and kind of

shoot ahead of the game on it. That's really,

really what I probably spend most of my time on.

And it's not like we're always doing a project,

but I'm always looking at building a file system

and pictures and things. I got like 48,000

pictures filed and, and categorize my computer of

just clothing and ideas for homes and things like

that. You know, I got an idea. I wanted to build a

grilling area, uh, on my beach house on the front,

because I'm tired of walking all the way

downstairs to do it. You know. Uh, I think I spent

six months researching grills. I never bought one,

but I just enjoyed the part of learning about all

these high end grills out there who did what, you

know, that I could tell you anything you want to

know about them now by going in every store that

sold them and hearing what this person said and

reading about it. So I don't know, I'm a little

bit of a weirdo with that stuff.

>> Jonathan: Well, it's another entrepreneurial trait that you

possess which has been exhibited all through this

show. So, um, what's one pet peeve of yours?

>> RB: I'm pretty easy going, but, um, um, you know what,

I just, um. You know, here's my biggest pet peeve.

So Jonathan, he's been to this office and seen.

It's really cool. We have boxes and stuff coming

here all the time, so. And we have customers in

here all the time. So to me, like, if you're

getting boxes of samples in or you're getting

boxes for whatever it is in here, Amazon for the

kitchen, go take those boxes and put them where

they go after you're done. And don't leave them

strung out all over the office, because in it then

your office looks like a mess. Because we've got

this really cool office. Everybody knows that.

When I walk around, like, and I don't, you know,

I'm joking about it, you know, I'll say we're

gonna do those boxes, you know, Uh, I mean, you

wouldn't believe how many boxes we get here from

around the world every day. Just with sounds, I'm

sure everything. So that's probably my pet peeve.

>> Jonathan: Mine is absolutely. I just hate leaving the

restaurant smelling like the restaurant. Like I

just sat next to the chef while I ate my dinner. I

hate smelling like a breadcrumb. Um, for the rest

of the day.

>> RB: That is always tell the judge when I'm selling

something that looks like a sweater, you know,

like this piece I've got on. Looks like a sweater,

but it's actually washable. And I say the great

thing about this, you go to a Mexican restaurant

and you smell like the fajitas the guy had beside

you. You take this thing home and wash it. You

don't have to send it to the dry cleaners. And

it's true, because that is. That's a pet peeve of

mine, too. I hate it. And I carry mouthwash in my

car so that every time I eat somewhere, I gotta

rinse my mouth out because I can't stand the smell

like food or taste like food after I've eaten.

>> RB: So that's another.

>> RB: We get along great.

>> Jonathan: I know.

>> RB: Love that. And I don't eat a lot of Mexican

restaurants because of that. Uh, yeah, well,

afterwards. But if I got to go back to work, I

can't handle it.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, that. That's true. And obviously, you know,

unless you're getting really good authentic

Mexican, I feel like some of them are just kind of

cookie cutter, you know, Like, I want a burrito

that I could eat with my hand, not have to cut

with a fork. So that's my deal. All right, last

question. Chris, if you. You play golf right

handed, right?

>> RB: On the right. Yes.

>> Jonathan: Yep. So if you had to play golf left handed, learn

to play golf left handed or never play golf again,

what would you do?

>> RB: Man, I mean, I'd probably try to learn because

what I love about golf, I mean, I would suck at

it. I'm not one of these people that comes

natural. But for me, golf is not just, uh, like

the golf. It's my. It's what I do socially. I'm

not a poker player. You know, I don't want to be

like, you know, I'm not like a big craft beer guy

or any of that. Like, I like to play golf because

I like the camaraderie that brings me, you know,

And.

>> Jonathan: Yep. Yeah. Ah.

>> RB: And I don't really probably practice enough to be

as good as I could be, but that doesn't bother me.

I feel like if I practice a lot, I expect myself

to be better, you know, so. So, yeah, I probably

learn how to play because I like the whole golf

experience, you know, of, uh, everything about it.

I'm the happiest.

>> Jonathan: You're chasing.

>> RB: Yep. I love it.

>> Jonathan: I love it, man. I love it. Well, folks, man, that

was Chris not here on Chasing Birdies, Former

Peter Millar founder, or the founder of Peter

Millar, and now running some things here in Johnny

O. Which we all love. And so, Chris, man, it was

awesome having you on the show. Um, sorry, there's

only 50% of us here right now talking to you. My,

my partner had some overheating issues going on,

but, uh, we'll finish it out. And, uh, again, man,

I can't thank you enough.

>> RB: Yeah, anytime, guys. It's great.

>> RB: Oh, my man, Chris Knott, thank you so much for

coming on Chasing Birdies. We appreciated your

time. I will tell you the one thing that you guys

were talking about that I was not on the R4, um,

due to overheating. That he's excited about are

his sunglasses that they came out with Johnny O.

I've been rocking the Johnny O sunglasses the last

five, six months. They are so light on your face.

I've worn them every round of golf that I've

played, uh, probably since May. And, um, I just

love the way you see everything.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, no, he was really high.

>> RB: How late it feels on your face. Uh, but they're

doing some cool stuff. You know, the, the packable

rain jacket that we talked about, the sunglasses,

you know, even a loafer. I know that you're not a

big fan of that, but a loafer that you could fold

and pack. The Johnny O's killing it. Chris Knott,

my man. Keep chasing.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, he. The story is incredible. I mean, you

talk about someone with some ingenuity, I mean,

getting these sweaters and pedaling a lawn ball

place to play. Yeah, well, that's the name from a

lawn.

>> RB: I know, but from a lawn ball.

>> Jonathan: But I'm saying the actual product and then boom.

And then it's everywhere. And now it is what it

is. And great story. Plus, he's just a totally

down to earth dude. So, Nadia, it was great having

you on the show. My friend and I look forward to,

uh, seeing you down there in the Carolinas or

Kentuckies or Tennessee's or somewhere down there.

At some point we'll play a little G and we'll get

that.

>> RB: We need to head on over to Eagle Point. Get Chris

Marino, Naughty me. You down at Eagle Point. Maybe

Josh.

>> Jonathan: I, uh, I was talking with somebody over this

weekend and they, um, they had just gone to stream

song, which I have never been to stream song and I

hear a lot of good things about it. I. I've

actually heard. Heard mixed reviews about it early

on, but now I think some things have changed and a

lot of people are kind of high on it. So it sounds

like it's a really cool spot.

>> RB: I guess.

>> Jonathan: Apparently you don't know you're in Florida, you

know, um, this, that and the Other. Uh, our boy,

Steve Bearing. Dude, you had sent me something

about him, and I didn't even see it, and I had to

go and watch it of him playing. Now, that day, him

and Robbie did Facetime me. That morning, they

were on California. California playing somewhere.

But I had no idea he was playing with Justin

Timberlake. And that damn video of. Of JT making

that putt. Justin Timberlake, not Justin Thomas.

And Piering comes up and slaps him in the back

like. Like. Like Timberlake actually wants to give

him five. I don't know. But all I know is that

when Piering smacks me, I want to lose my. Because

he's so. To me, he's big, right? He's like six,

five. And he just. Great shot, buddy. Just hits

me, and I feel like I just got trucked. So I

wonder what JT was thinking whenever he felt the

wrath of Peering.

>> RB: Yeah, I mean, you can kind of tell by the

reaction, like, just how much you don't touch me

ever again. Um, so. But that. That was a. It

looked like it was a blast for. For our dude

Peering playing with, uh, Justin Timberlake and.

And, uh, some other people. Kelly James. I think

it's Kelly James. Great music. Or.

>> Jonathan: Oh, yeah, that guy.

>> RB: Yeah.

>> RB: Huh. Yeah, he's out of Troubadour. Member. Yeah.

>> Jonathan: Great, um, spot.

>> RB: So it looked like a great fivesome. I guess they

were in, uh, nerf portions. Um, but we had a

little kid was running around. So regardless. Drag

peering across the course, a kid, um, just owned

them. Um, but I'm really excited because we've

been chasing around this individual. We've been on

trips with them. We've played golf with them. You

know, we. We basically are going to Chicago on set

with a friend of ours to do an interview that

we've been kind of, like, tiptoeing around, right?

Like, we didn't know, do we want to do it? Do we

not want to do it? Does he want to do it? And, um,

for those of you that watch Chicago Fire, we are

going to Chicago to record on December 9th. Taylor

Kinney.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, it's gonna be good.

>> RB: I'm really excited about that one.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, me too. Me too. And especially because we've

actually done a lot of shit together a lot over

the last couple years. And, uh, yeah, I've always

thought that'd be a great, great one to get on the

podcast, especially for his love for the game of

golf. And, you know, we kind of are, in some

respect, similar in a lot of ways. In a lot of

ways different. But just for playing the G game

and whatnot, I thought that'd be a great guess.

And. Yeah, you know, so I'm excited to get up

there. We're going to Betonardi. We're gonna sit

there. We got Keith Shout out shooting the whole

thing. We got approval from Sam. Thank you, Sam.

And, uh, we'll be in Chi town. Hopefully we don't

get snowed in. I got one flight coming back from

Chicago to Morgantown. It leaves it like midnight,

so I gotta figure that one out. I might, I might

take the public transit back from Pittsburgh to

Morgantown because I'm probably gonna have to fly

to Pittsburgh anyways. I'm excited to get up there

with you, but another nice little one day getaway.

We just had that last week in, in, in Nashville.

Now this, this time we're in Chi town, you know,

we're gonna have a little dinner and we're gonna

see the boy, we're gonna see Vinnie and we're.

>> RB: Gonna see, see, we're gonna go to dinner, uh, and

see, um, Vinny Trocheck, have some dinner with him

and, and TK and the boys. So it'll be a good, uh,

one dare. And, um, I have to hightail it back on

Wednesday because it is the holiday season. So I

got. Um. But I'm excited to interview Taylor

Kinney on our next episode.

>> Jonathan: Yeah. Two weeks. Two weeks. So.

>> RB: So you all be good. Hunker down. It's starting to

get a little cold. A little snow in the Midwest.

Golf is officially over. So now it's time to go to

the simulator. Find your favorite simulators and

go.

>> Jonathan: Yeah.

>> RB: Keep your game in check.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, P. Pittsburgh's got great options and we

have a great option at a spot in Farmington,

Pennsylvania, which we call Nema Colon, not

Nemacol. Check it out online@nemacolan.com the

Indoor Golf Academy has three full service.

Trackman bays with great instructors. Any type of

club you want to hit, come on up to Nemacol. Dust

off clubs in this winter season and you'll

probably see Pep and I up there on the weekends

yucking it up.

>> RB: Speaking of Namakola, I know you're making fun of

me for this, but as you have been a part of this

event for the last two years, you see that a lot

of work goes into it to get people to come and

commit. Um, the dates have been finalized for The

Chase and Birdies 2. Man. Those of you that are

listening have played August 2nd to the 4th. Those

that you are listening and want to play, reach

out, send a message on Instagram. We'll see if you

got a spot for you. Um, we're gonna have 52 spots

this year available. It's gonna be a 45 whole

event this year instead of 36. Uh, we got a little

something planned on. On the first day. And, um.

Yeah. So make sure you put that down in your

calendar.

>> Jonathan: Yeah. August will be here before you know it,

like, tomorrow.

>> RB: So, anyway. All right, everybody, go to

chasingbirdies. Tap it. Like it. Love it. Thank

you for tuning in. Keep chasing. We are thankful

for everyone that tunes in.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, we truly are, man. It's been a fun five

years or whatever we're at right now, and

certainly, um, at this point, it's a hobby. So we

appreciate you supporting our hobby. And as

always, guys, we appreciate you tuning in to this

week's episode. So big thanks over to Simpler

Media with Allie, Emily, and Ivo putting this

thing together. Jacqueline DiPaterio, Rachel

London, for all your social media help. You guys

have a great first full weekend of December, and

we will catch y' all in two.

>> RB: Ra. Uh.